August 24, 2022 Show with Jason Contino on “Leaving the Cult of the Jehovah’s Witnesses: One Christian Pastor’s Journey”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 24th day of August 2022.

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Today we have a guest that came to my attention in a remarkable series of providences involving social media, and we'll be getting a little bit more in depth into that part of the story after I introduce this guest, but it's quite a fascinating bit of providence in my opinion.

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Today we have on the program for the very first time, Jason Contino. He is

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Associate Pastor of Harborview Christian Church of Port Jefferson, Long Island, New York, and today we are going to be addressing

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Leaving the Cult of the Jehovah's Witnesses, One Christian Pastor's Journey, Out from Kingdom Hall into the

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Kingdom of Christ Jesus. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Jason Contino.

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Thank you, Chris. How are you? I'm doing great, by the goodness and mercy of God. First of all, tell our listeners something about Harborview Christian Church of Port Jefferson, Long Island, New York.

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We are a non -denominational Christian church right in the heart of the village, almost at the corner of East Main Street and Prospect, almost opposite Pasta Pasta.

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We were a planted church of Island Christian Church about 11 or 12 years ago.

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We existed as a satellite of theirs, as a campus, the

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Port Jefferson campus of Island Christian Church, and about two and a half years ago in January of 2020,

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Pastor Pete Jensen decided that he was going to, that we were going to go independent.

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We were just starting to move in a different direction from that very large

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Island Christian church. And he, Pastor Pete, picked two elders, myself being one of the two, and we became independent as Harborview Christian Church.

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Well, I hope Pastor Pete is listening. I do remember him well from my years living on Long Island, which is where I started

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Iron Sharp and Zion Radio at WNYG Radio in Babylon, Long Island, and our paths crossed from time to time.

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And if I'm not mistaken, he towered above me in height and just a real gracious brother.

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And he also, by the goodness of God, from what I hear, has married someone that I contacted years ago and met who was operating a crisis pregnancy center out there on Long Island who was interviewed,

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I believe, on the station I worked for for 15 years before I started

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Iron Sharp and Zion Radio. I worked for WMCA, 570 AM in New York City, and we gave coverage to that crisis pregnancy center.

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So I'm delighted to hear that these two fine

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Christians met and got married. Yeah, they're a special pair, the two of them.

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And she is now, Doreen is now Doreen Jansen, and she is the

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CEO of Soundview Pregnancy Centers. They have centers in East Meadow, Center Reach, and they are looking to plant a new one in Riverhead.

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Well, praise God. Well, if anybody wants more information about Harborview Christian Church in Port Jefferson, Long Island, and if you have never visited

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Port Jefferson, Long Island, no matter where in the world you live, I would highly recommend that you visit that gorgeous area of Long Island, New York on the water, and I would make a vacation out of it.

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And if you live in or near Port Jefferson, I strongly urge you to visit

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Harborview Christian Church. And if you know of folks who live in or near Port Jefferson, I would strongly urge you to urge them to visit that church.

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The website is harborviewchristian .church, harborviewchristian .church.

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Well on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio, we have a tradition, Jason, where we have first -time guests give a summary of their salvation testimony, and in your case, the entire interview really involves that because of the fascinating aspect of your history that you were once a member of the

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Jehovah's Witnesses. And let me now reveal to our listeners how

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I got in contact with you. I had posted for anybody who follows me on Facebook, you know that recently, just a couple of days ago,

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I posted on Facebook a photograph of my late wife and myself when we were dating way back in the 1980s, probably before many of my listeners were born, in fact, perhaps even before you were born,

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Jason, I don't know. But I had posted on that post,

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I had written on that post, I should say, that my wife and I were at a restaurant where she was treating me to a birthday dinner before we were married at La Mansarde Restaurant, which is no longer in existence.

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It was a French restaurant that eventually became the Rose Cottage and maintained its

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French menu, and I would go there frequently after the transition of name.

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And I had just mentioned that it was a precious memory. My wife had given me an engraved watch as a gift, and I was mentioning in the post that when you cherish someone deeply that you have lost, no matter how wonderful the memory is, it's always mixed with pain, and your beaming smile that breaks out on your face is quickly moistened with the tears that are flowing down your cheeks.

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And Pastor Jason read that and said that La Mansarde was owned by,

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I believe, his aunt, and if you could continue the story of your connection with La Mansarde, and also

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Amato's Restaurant, which is where I had my very first date with my wife during a snowstorm when

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I very sneakily contacted her, because we were attending the same

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Bible study at a church that was not where I was a member, First Baptist Church of Lindenhurst, Long Island.

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A shout out to all of you out there who are members there. But I called my wife, and she wasn't my wife at the time, we had never even been on a date, but we were attending the same

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Bible study, and I said, hey, you know, Julie, it's snowing outside and I was wondering if there's still going to be a

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Bible study tonight. And as we were talking, the pastor's wife, Marie Blind, called her, and she had, obviously, the call -waiting option, which was not that old at that time, and she said, can you hold and get the phone call?

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And she got back on the line and she said, oh, Marie Blind just called, the Bible study is canceled because of the snow.

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So I said, well, would you like to go out for dinner to Amado's restaurant?

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And that was by far the most exquisite high -end restaurant in that area at that time, for years it was.

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And even though it was bordering on blizzard conditions, we drove out there, and very slowly got there, and they were open, believe it or not, and there was only maybe two other couples in the place.

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But that also was a cherished memory of mine, and now you can pick up the story about the connection between those two restaurants and your family.

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Sure, so I'm a little bit older than you guessed me to be, I just celebrated my 50th birthday.

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Oh, wow, you're 10 years to my junior. Okay, so yeah,

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I remember all of the 80s, but my grandparents, my grandfather was from Brooklyn and a

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Sicilian from Brooklyn, and my grandmother was a Scots -Irish girl from North Carolina who met in Annapolis at the end of World War II, he was a sailor.

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And they moved back to his home in Brooklyn, which I'm sure was culture shock for a farm girl from North Carolina, and they proceeded to have children, and they opened a pizzeria.

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Actually it was a dinette, and they started serving pizza. Then they bought a burger stand out in Amityville, and moved out to North Babylon.

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And their burger stand name was Burger King, and in the late 50s, early 60s, when

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Burger King wanted to go commercial in New York State, they had to buy the name from my grandfather.

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And he gave them the name, and he started what was then

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Amato's Restaurant. I think Amato's was already running, but he still owned the name in New York State.

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And with that money that he got when Burger King bought the name in New York State, the rights to the name from my grandfather, he blueprinted and built his own restaurant, which is the

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Amato's Restaurant, you remember, at 330 Merrick Road in Amityville.

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And now he has this old restaurant, and he wants to have, he wants two things.

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He wants somebody who's going to come and not drag his name down, since he still felt it had a tie to Amato's.

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And he wanted somebody who was going to come and not open an Italian restaurant and compete with him. Meantime, his, their eldest daughter, my

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Aunt Rose, was graduating from the Culinary Institute of America, and nobody could pass my grandfather's strict test of how long does food stay out?

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Can you cook this? Can you cook that? How do you treat your customers? It was an inter -rigorous interview by a type

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A personality, and nobody could pass the test except for his daughter. And she opened up what was called

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La Mansard. The agreement would be that she would specialize in the French cooking that she had trained in at the

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Culinary Institute in Hyde Park, and Amato's would go on serving Italian food.

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For several years, it operated as La Mansard. I believe La Mansard is the roof style that you see on the top of that building to this day.

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And after several years, my Aunt, looking to get out of the restaurant business, sold it to somebody who, again, did not keep up their end of the bargain.

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I believe he might have foreclosed, but he also brought down the reputation of that restaurant. So when she, when he took over the, when she took over the restaurant again, she changed the name to Rose Cottage, and it operated under the name

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Rose Cottage for many, many years with, I believe, what was the exact same menu. Yeah, I can even remember at the

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Rose Cottage later on, after I'd already been married, treating advertising clients that I had at WMCA Radio to dinner there.

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And I remember with a great amount of salivating on my end, the duck in raspberry sauce that was just astronomically delicious.

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And of course, Amado's was mind -blowing back then, and it was that old -fashioned high -end restaurant, waiters with white gloves.

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For some reason, I'm not sure, most high -end restaurants, at least in years past, and even until recently, it may even still be the case for the most high -end restaurants, but no waitresses, all waiters originally, and just phenomenal food at Amado's.

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And I remember the amaretto strawberry cake was just out of this world.

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And I also remember seeing autographs of celebrities all over the wall, and I'm assuming those celebrities actually ate there,

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Dom DeLuise and a whole bunch of other folks. I think even the Rat Pack may have had their photos signed on the wall.

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And another part of this whole providential connection is that a very dear friend of mine, now retired,

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Pastor Earl Blackburn, he came to Long Island once from Louisiana where he was pastoring, he is a native of North Carolina, and he was visiting

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Amityville, Long Island to preach at the church where I was a member, where I was saved,

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Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, Long Island, where Mike Gaydosh was the pastor at the time. And Earl treated

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Mike Gaydosh to dinner at Amado's, in fact,

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I think it was really your grandparents who treated them both. I don't think Earl pulled out his wallet.

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And Mike informed me of the absolutely mind -blowing dinner with course after course after course that they were served, and Earl was the one that told me that your family had members in the

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Jehovah's Witnesses, and he also said that he, in his childhood, used to live with your family who were from North Carolina, and he used to spend summers with them, and he had a lot to say about Amado's, in fact, he even said it was a favorite spot of organized crime members.

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Have you heard that? Yeah, yeah, the organized crime members, we were very, very fortunate in the way things fell because Carlo Gambino had a home in Massapequa, and apparently before Carlo Gambino would go and eat in a restaurant, he did his research on the family, and he knew that my family from Agrigento, Sicily, apparently had no ties, or at least no ties to organized crime that he found to be a threat.

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He knew my father's profession, my father, who was, it was my mother who was an

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Amado, my father is a Cantino, so that he knew that the son -in -law was a parole officer, he knew, a

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New York State parole officer, they had done their research and they knew everything about the family. So when he would come in, he would ask if Senora Amado was working, if my grandmother would come out of the kitchen and he would give her a kiss on the cheek, he was an older gentleman at the time, then he would sit down and eat his food.

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But if my grandmother was off, then one of his handlers, one of his bodyguards would eat from his dish before he ate from the dish.

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When he left, before he left, the car took a ride down to Lindenhurst to make sure nobody was following it or it didn't blow up.

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And they would put them in a corner upstairs and they would look to keep them from having to interact too much with the customers.

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But there is a story where my grandfather had a,

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I think it was a linen guy, it was either linen or carding, but somebody was trying to muscle in and tell him who he was to use and that they were going to provide him with protection.

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And my grandfather, he didn't want to hear any of that, he always carried a pistol on himself and I think having my father around and his sons around made him feel pretty comfortable that he could handle himself.

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But these guys were letting him know in no uncertain terms that you're going to be using our carding, you're going to be taking the garbage away from our guy.

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And my grandfather told them in the same terms that it's not going to happen,

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I have my guy and get out of my restaurant. And my grandfather didn't hear back from them for a few months and then

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Mr. Gambino came in to eat and he said, Frank, I'd like to talk to you. He says, Frank, I heard you had a problem.

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And he says, I have no problems, Mr. Gambino. He says, I heard that somebody wanted to force you to use their services.

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He says, oh, that's not a problem, Mr. Gambino, I've been in this business long enough. And he says, well, Frank, he says they got word that they're not to mess with you, that I come here.

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And my grandfather says, Mr. Gambino, I've never asked for a favor from you. And he said,

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Frank, that's why I eat here. He says, because I respect the fact that you've never asked of anything from me and I trust your family.

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So maybe it kept my grandfather safe. Wow. And if I remember correctly, when

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Pastor Earl Blackburn was telling me the story, he did mention the part about the

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Burger King chain corporation having to buy the rights for the name

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Burger King from the Amato family because of the fact that that was already the name of the restaurant before the

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Burger King chain ever arrived on the scene on Long Island. And I believe the amount, if I'm not mistaken, was $30 ,000.

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And that was supposed to be an astronomical figure, especially in the 1950s or early 60s, whenever that occurred.

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Yeah, it was it was enough for him to build a new restaurant the way he wanted it and to gift a restaurant to his daughter.

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So I don't think there were any complaints. Great. Well, I have to introduce you to Pastor Earl Blackburn.

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If the Lord ever provides us with an opportunity, in fact, maybe he'll get on the phone and call him after the show's over.

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But now let us enter in to the main theme of our program.

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In fact, before I do that, because I don't want to interrupt you mid -sentence, we're going to go to our first station break first.

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And when we return from the first station break, we will have you begin your testimony of being raised in the

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Jehovah's Witnesses and how the Lord, in his mercy, rescued you from that cult and brought you to discover and embrace the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true and the true

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Jesus Christ of Scripture and the true and the true Scripture, because Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong on all of those things.

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We'll hear more about that when we return. And if anybody has any questions, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages with more of Jason Contino.

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here, excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to Washington, D .C.

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for the G3 Ministries regional conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible. The conference will be held

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Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th. I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co -hosts of the

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Just Thinking podcast. To register, visit g3min .org. That's g3min .org

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and click on events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.

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So join me and Chris Arnson, September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C.

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to the G3 Ministries regional conference. Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org.

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That's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

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Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study?

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Much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the Bible. Hi there.

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My name is Jordan too, and I am the executive director of the Baptist Publishing House. Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound

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May God bless you. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

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Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show.

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He really loves hearing interviewed. Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I am

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Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Attoye in County Kildare, Ireland.

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Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

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Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

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Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

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Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards. And Dr.

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Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

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Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

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Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

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For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritage presbyterianchurch .com.

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That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com or call 678 -954 -7831.

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That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them

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Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from Attoy in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Tom Buck at First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Mark Romaldi, pastor of Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Christopher Cookston, pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Matt Tarr, pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love.

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

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Christ Jesus the King, and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

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For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

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that's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

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That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

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We are now back with Jason Contino who is the associate pastor at Harborview Christian Church located in Port Jefferson, Long Island, New York.

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And I can't say it enough, it's one of the most breathtaking areas of the United States.

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I've been around traveling to represent Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and Manning Exhibitors Booths and I've rarely come across an area more beautiful.

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In fact, I don't think I ever come across an area more beautiful in the United States than Port Jefferson, Long Island.

37:18

Many fond memories there. And we are discussing the testimony of my guest,

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Jason Contino, leaving the cult of the Jehovah's Witnesses, one Christian pastor's journey out from Kingdom Hall into the

37:31

Kingdom of Jesus Christ. If you have a question, send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

37:37

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. So Jason, tell us about your upbringing and your first recollections of being a

37:52

Jehovah's Witness and how that possibly made your upbringing different than that of your friends and all that kind of thing.

38:02

Okay, so my mother is number four daughter of six children.

38:08

The first four kids are girls and the next two were boys. And mom was in the middle.

38:14

She was number four. Number three, my Aunt Joanne became a

38:21

Jehovah's Witness in the early 1970s. My mother was very close in age with her sister

38:26

Joanne. And from the start, my Aunt Joanne has a very charismatic type personality.

38:34

When she believes in something, she jumps in all the way.

38:41

And so she was witnessing to my mother quite a bit. Like you had said in our chat on the thread that you had posted about, most

38:53

Italians are Catholic, especially in the New York area. So they were raised in a

38:59

Catholic household, but non -practicing. So the kids were all not practicing.

39:06

And my Aunt clinged to what she believed was the truth that the Jehovah's Witnesses claimed to have.

39:13

And she actually came to the religion in right around a little bit before 1975, which was a pretty big date for the

39:21

Jehovah's Witnesses, because they had a lot of excitement about the end coming in 1975.

39:28

After 1975, my mother studied on and off with my Aunt for many years. And after that, she became a

39:35

Jehovah's Witness, getting baptized around 1980 or 81, along with her two brothers.

39:40

So at this point, there were four of the six kids, the four children.

39:47

And my family, like my Aunt's family, my father never became a

39:53

Jehovah's Witness. So I had my uncle, Bill, and my father, Jim, never became Jehovah's Witnesses.

39:59

So myself and my cousins, they had four kids in their family. I was one of three. We were raised by our moms bringing us to the

40:10

Kingdom Hall back then. It was a two -hour meeting on Sunday, a public talk, they would call it, and followed by a watchtower study, a one -hour book study in someone's home or the

40:26

Kingdom Hall, almost like we would have life groups as Christians, but this was a mandatory study on Tuesday evenings for one -hour and two -hour meetings on Thursday nights.

40:38

So you're kept pretty busy, and you feel you carry a

40:44

Bible around with you. You feel that you have Biblical knowledge, but you're always being taught from either a magazine or a book with the

40:55

Bible. I so cheated. As they put their doctrine, their dogma, into the

41:05

Biblical scriptures that they turn to, and you're reading really only a scripture here or there,

41:11

I found out later, often out of context. My aunt was much stricter than my mom, and her kids were not allowed to play sports.

41:23

They were not allowed to do many things. My father, having a little bit more of a strong personality, had told my mother in no uncertain terms that if we won, he thought he had played sports as a young man.

41:39

He thought that that was very good, beneficial, that he wanted us to play sports, and he wanted us to have the door open to going to college, which was not really an option for my cousins.

41:51

It was not encouraged, at least, oftentimes discouraged by Jehovah's Witnesses. Now, I have never heard that before about Jehovah's Witnesses, and I remember the cult leader,

42:04

Herbert W. Armstrong, and his Worldwide Church of God cult forbid competitive sports where you are actually on a team competing with another team.

42:18

He did not prohibit sports that involve one just trying to improve their own best performance from the past, and that kind of a thing, if it was a single person involved in a sport of some kind.

42:39

But what was the rationale behind prohibiting sports by the

42:45

Jehovah's Witnesses? I think the Scripture that was quoted ad nauseam throughout my childhood is that physical training is beneficial for a little, but godly training is beneficial for all things.

42:58

The rationale truly is that the end is coming at any time, and why are we playing games to begin with when we should be proselytizing or focusing on kingdom needs?

43:14

Also, you are greatly discouraged from having worldly friends, so going to college, you know, many

43:25

Jehovah's Witnesses from my generation grew up not thinking that Armageddon could be within the next five years or so, and to think that you're going to go to college when you could have gotten some sort of a vocational training is also something that they discouraged.

43:42

But in reality, when looking back, we see that what used to be the critical thinking skills of a liberal arts diploma or liberal arts degree is something that those critical thinking skills are discouraged.

43:57

You are taught not to question, and in the past, young men and women going to college are taught to question what they're being taught.

44:05

They're taught to trust the process of questioning things, and cults don't function well when people are questioning.

44:17

You know, that's interesting that they would have such a strong prohibition against sports when

44:24

I have come to discover, I don't know what it was like in your home, but I was actually very surprised that Jehovah's Witnesses in some ways have a more liberal ethic than many

44:41

Christian homes in regard to social drinking, dancing, going to pubs, and things like that.

44:50

And I know that many of our Reform people do all of those things, but I was surprised because I knew of their rigidity with so many things.

45:00

In fact, I saw a movie that apparently the producers of the movie called

45:07

Apostasy, which was a phenomenal movie about the family in the

45:13

UK that were Jehovah's Witnesses, and it involves the death of a member of the family that was rebelling against the

45:23

Jehovah's Witness cult. And I was sitting there, and I know that there was apparently painstaking research to make sure that they were replicating accurately what goes on amongst

45:35

Jehovah's Witnesses. And even the minister, and forgive me if I'm using a wrong term there, but the young Jehovah's Witness minister even went to a pub with some of the members.

45:49

That was a real shock to me. But anyway, if you could continue from that thread there. Well, if we talk just about that movie for a minute, you'll notice that they were in a pub together.

46:00

They were not in a pub mixing and mingling with the public. And listen, you're not going to get this fellowship, you're not going to be disciplined if you enjoy a beer with your co -workers after work.

46:15

But you are going to be called to task if you are missing meetings and consistently being found out in public places with what they would deem as worldly people.

46:27

And that young man, his position would have been called an elder. An elder is similar to a pastor in a church.

46:36

A servant is similar to a deacon. Go ahead, I'm sorry. So now we know that JW stands for Johnny Walker.

46:42

I'm only kidding. And also, there was a party in the movie where there was secular music playing and there were

46:51

JWs dancing. Very badly, but they were dancing.

46:57

Just fascinating to me. Anyway, I'm sorry, you can pick up where you left off about the fact that your aunt's family was much more strict in the prohibition against sports than your family was.

47:13

Yeah, so thank God. My father encouraged us to play sports to go to college, so myself, my brother, and my sister benefited from those things, but possibly were probably looked down upon by people within our congregation because we were pursuing worldly activities.

47:36

But I think my upbringing was a balancing act.

47:42

I was one person when I was going to the Kingdom Hall, and I was another person on my football team. And that's the case for many children who are raised in evangelical

47:52

Christian families. That's true. I was just going to say that's not too uncommon.

47:59

Now, there was an experience that really rattled my faith, unless you had another question about when

48:08

I was in the Jehovah's Witness. No, keep going, keep going. So my aunt and my uncle, when

48:14

I was around 20 years of age, she left my uncle and started proceeding with a divorce.

48:23

We had moved from living on Long Island, and around the early 80s, when

48:31

I was about the age of 10, we moved upstate New York to where my grandparents had a vacation home up by the town of Warrensburg.

48:38

And I'm actually in Warrensburg right now, visiting at the home of a former JW friend who is no longer in the religion, and I'm praying to God is coming to Christ as we speak.

48:51

That being said, my aunt and uncle and their four kids, my cousins, moved up into a neighboring town.

49:00

And after a decade or eight years of living up here, my aunt left my uncle.

49:07

Something happened, I believe, emotionally to my dear aunt, who I love dearly, and she came out with allegations that my uncle was involved in a satanic cult.

49:21

This was on the heels of the satanic panic of the 80s and early 90s, and she was claiming that my uncle, everything fit together, why he didn't become a

49:35

Jehovah's Witness was because he had been worshiping Satan and he had been doing horrendous, horrendous things to their own children, which included not just abuse, but forced abortions and child sacrifices.

49:53

When this allegation came out, my mother is a registered nurse, my father is a

50:03

New York State parole officer, and the two of them, after listening to this go on for a few months and hearing that, have you contacted

50:16

State Police? Have you contacted the County Sheriff? Have you contacted the District Attorney's Office?

50:22

Hearing that, no, we're waiting for the snow to thaw, no, we're waiting for this, no, we're waiting for that, and the reasoning all started to fall apart.

50:31

What had happened was I witnessed the elders in my aunt's congregation and other elders that I knew support her and demonize my uncle, and as it fell apart and there was absolutely no case and nothing was ever brought to the courts,

50:55

I watched as it was just swept under the rug, a man's reputation, business, home was taken from him, he left, they left the state, but every single person who believed the story, because she goes to the

51:12

Kingdom Hall and he was never a baptized witness, and who were you going to believe? And do you think this was, from what you knew, was this an intentional thing so that Jehovah's Witnesses would approve of her filing for divorce?

51:26

I think she was having a nervous breakdown. I think she wanted out of her marriage, and I think that she could not reconcile, but first of all, he would not go out and date somebody else, so she was not given a biblical divorce, and my dear aunt, it wasn't because she wanted to get remarried, she never got remarried, but I don't think she was able to reconcile how her husband could never come to the truth, how a few of her kids at this point, out of her four kids, three of them ended up leaving the religion, and so the blame was put onto him.

52:06

She also had a younger brother, she had two younger brothers, Joseph, who ran the restaurant when my grandfather passed in 93, and Frankie, who lived upstate up here by Warrensburg also, and Frankie had, in 1987, had disassociated himself, walking away from the religion, watching the

52:27

John Ankerberg show, convinced himself that this was false, that this was wrong, and he just disassociated himself, and I think my aunt had some sort of panic, and this caused her to accuse my uncle of this.

52:46

Great, and we're going to continue where you left off when we come back from our midway break that we have to enter into now, and I'm going to remind our listeners, please be patient with us with the midway break, it's a little longer than the other breaks in the show, because the

53:02

FCC requires Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, who airs this program in a pre -recorded fashion twice a day, in morning drive and in the evening, they are required to localize this broadcast geographically to Lake City, Florida, and they do that with their own public service announcements and other announcements that they make regarding local things, and while they do that, simultaneously, we are globally heard commercials, so please use this time wisely, write down as much of the information as you possibly can that our advertisers provide, so that you can contact them more successfully and frequently, and when you can't purchase their products, use their services, support their parachurch organizations, or visit their churches, at the very least, please thank them for sponsoring

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Iron Trump and Zion Radio using their contact information. If you do really love this show and are grateful that there are people and organizations who have been blessed by God financially who share some of that wealth with Iron Trump and Zion Radio, because they want us to continue and remain on the air, so if you're really grateful for those folks, please thank them, and they are our advertisers, primarily, we could not exist without our advertisers, folks, so please contact them and thank them, at the very least, also send in your questions to Jason Contino on the

54:25

Jehovah's Witnesses at chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n -g -mail .com,

54:33

and don't go away, we're gonna be right back. Attention all men in ministry leadership, you're all invited to my friend

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Jehovah's Witness, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the cult from which our guest came and who embraced the true gospel and the true

01:11:43

Christ and the true scriptures by God's grace and mercy and is now, as I already said, a pastor in a

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And by the way, Pastor Jason, I hope she shows up, but one of our listeners, Susan in East Setauket, Long Island, New York, has passed by your church building many times, has always been intrigued by it, and now that she is aware that this is a solid church, she intends to visit your church.

01:12:22

So I'm hoping that that does happen. So pick up where you left off.

01:12:29

You were talking about the tragedy of your aunt divorcing your uncle and making up all kinds of insidious, slanderous, defamatory claims about him being a

01:12:41

Satanist and all that kind of thing. And if you could continue where you left off there. So I bring up this whole story because this was the turning point for me.

01:12:55

I had been baptized in 1987 at the age of 15, and I was raised and taught to not question the organization.

01:13:06

As this was happening, it rattled my faith, and I sat down and listened to elders, which is similar to a

01:13:14

Christian sitting down with their own pastor and being counseled and being told that your aunt's story appears to be true, your uncle appears to have done these things, and you are to believe her.

01:13:30

And that, when examined by my father's experience as an investigator and my mother's experience as a registered nurse, having grown up with this family and them living with this family and knowing them from the time that my aunt and uncle were teenagers, it just didn't make sense.

01:13:54

And my father sort of pulled me aside and gave me that advice. When an accusation is made about somebody, we examine it.

01:14:03

We don't just believe it. So he encouraged me to examine it. And I watched over a course of a couple years as they just simply swept the accusation under the rug and pretended it had never happened and moved on.

01:14:18

And my uncle had lost his business, and my uncle had lost his marriage, my uncle had lost his home. He picked up where he left, you know, he ended up, he had been a steam fitter in New York City when he had moved up to this area and opened up a wood stove and heating company, but he had a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses working for him.

01:14:36

And so this affected him financially to a great deal. And he was very fortunate to get back into the steam fitters union.

01:14:45

But watching this unfold and watching how not only did they not look for any true evidence, but then when it came out that this was all a figment of a disturbed imagination, they circled the wagons and more or less said, so what?

01:15:02

And when you put your faith in man, and you deem that man to be untrustworthy, you deem those men to be untrustworthy, they might as well have had clown noses on and big shoes, but they were no longer the ones who were going to tell me what was truth and what wasn't.

01:15:19

Because I saw that you were willing to lie. You were willing to accept a convenient lie.

01:15:26

And so I was left now with no faith. I walked away from it.

01:15:31

I said, I cannot do this. You look like a bunch of clowns to me. But I didn't know what to believe, but I knew that I was not to trust those people as having the truth.

01:15:45

Now, were you a nominal Jehovah's Witness, even though you were baptized? Or was there any... Yeah. Yeah, I would say

01:15:50

I was a nominal Jehovah's Witness at that point. I had become what they would say was...

01:15:57

I was irregular at best. Now, was this even though...

01:16:02

Were you a nominal in your belief before this tragedy occurred with your divorced family members?

01:16:10

No, I think at that point, I would have said that it was the truth. I would have said that it was the truth.

01:16:15

I would have put my money on that it was the truth. And then the accusation and the cover up and the denial to face the reality of the facts of reality just led me down.

01:16:30

You know, the house of cards just came falling down. And it was a cognitive dissonance in which I don't know what

01:16:36

I believe, but I don't believe these people. Now, before we get into how you discovered true

01:16:41

Christianity and the true gospel and the true

01:16:46

Christ and the true scriptures, because all of those things are false in the kingdom hall.

01:16:55

Tell us about the main tenets of Jehovah's Witnesses that puts them rightfully under the category of a cult and puts them rightfully under the category of having a false gospel and a false

01:17:09

Christ and a false Bible. Yeah, so Jesus Christ in their theology as a created being is the first creation of Jehovah God.

01:17:22

And when they say Jehovah God, they don't mean God the Father, they mean God. He is

01:17:29

God. Jesus Christ was the physical manifestation of Michael the archangel.

01:17:38

And he was the first created being. And then through him, all other things were made.

01:17:44

And when I say other things, I chuckle because they actually added the word other to Colossians chapter one, where it says, through him, all things they have added other.

01:17:56

And then in, I believe, chapter two, where it says his name is above every name, Jehovah's name too,

01:18:01

I would ask, but they would say other names. And in their first translations, they put that in parentheses.

01:18:09

And then later on in the 2013 translation, they conveniently removed the parentheses. So it has, over the course of the years, other has been allowed to just evolve into scripture.

01:18:22

Their gospel, if you were to ask them, what is the gospel? What is the good news? If you approach them at a cart, they're going to talk to you about separating the sheep from the goats and Armageddon and the new system and God's plan for the earth.

01:18:38

And they're going to skip right over the gospel of first Corinthians, where Paul tells us that this is the gospel that Jesus came to die for our sins, chapter 15,

01:18:49

I believe. And when I, when I referred to their Bible being false,

01:18:55

I don't want to over overstep the truth behind that.

01:19:02

Obviously, there is much within even their corrupted translation that is true. And you can even lead a

01:19:09

Jehovah's witness to Christ and salvation using the New World Translation.

01:19:15

But tell us about the corruption of this version, the

01:19:21

New World Translation. You know, all of your listeners have the opportunity to go on to JW .org

01:19:28

where they will find both the New World Translation and the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the

01:19:35

Greek scriptures is what they call it. And the Kingdom Interlinear has the

01:19:41

Greek in a word for word translation. And then on the and then if you turn if you have the book, which

01:19:48

I have not with me because I'm on vacation, and if you look to the right of the book, you'll see what is in their

01:19:53

New World Translation that they're carrying around with them when they're out in field service or at their courts. But just to give you a little bit of a heads up as to what to expect is it's going to be the deity of Christ where things are always changed.

01:20:10

There's no reason to change superficial things. You see the cults exist in a world where Christ has to be removed because Christ said all you need is him, not an organization.

01:20:23

And so in John 8, 58, the Ego Aemi of I am, when you look to the side of the other side or when you switch to the other page, if you were to open up the

01:20:34

New World Translation in the computer, you'll see that the I am was changed to I have been.

01:20:41

And there'll be a footnote telling you that that's the perfect indicative because it was not spoken in proper language.

01:20:52

Well, the only perfect man to ever walk the earth apparently spoke and needed to wait for the

01:20:58

Watchtower organization to come along 18, 1900 years later and correct his language.

01:21:08

So in John 17, 3, this is everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you're the only true

01:21:18

God in whom you sent forth Jesus Christ. They changed to taking in knowledge of you.

01:21:25

You know, you could watch the History Channel and take in knowledge of Saddam Hussein or Adolf Hitler.

01:21:30

You don't know Saddam Hussein or Adolf Hitler. You are saved by knowing

01:21:36

Jesus, not taking in knowledge of Jesus. The mystery of God.

01:21:42

This is a mystery in Colossians 1, 27. They have changed to sacred secret where they have in Colossians, like I mentioned before, simply adding the other to the text to make it so that Jesus' name is above every other name, not above every name.

01:22:04

John 1 is going to be the big one, one, one, where Jesus is a God, not

01:22:10

Jesus is God. And they put the A in there because there is not the word the, there is not, they add that.

01:22:17

So, I'm trying to think what else, what were you going to say, Chris? I'm sorry. I was going to say their idea of the afterlife.

01:22:26

There are already the exact number of people, from what

01:22:32

I understand, according to their eschatology, there are already the exact number of people who were intended to be in heaven, 144 ,000 if I'm not mistaken.

01:22:46

And therefore, since basically heaven is full, no reservations can be taken now because they're already packed to capacity.

01:22:58

So therefore, every other Jehovah's Witness, if that Jehovah's Witness is faithful enough, will be a resident of Paradise Earth.

01:23:10

Am I getting that correct? Yeah, so they haven't come, I don't believe they've come out and shut that door totally, but what they do is they scrutinize you very closely if you're going to take the bread and the wine during the one time a year on the memorial,

01:23:26

Nisan 14, right around the Jewish Passover. So this memorial celebration, if you were to take the wine and the bread, you would be scrutinized because it should be full.

01:23:39

But they don't have that exact number. They, of course, they get that number from Revelation, 12 ,000 from all 12 tribes.

01:23:46

And if we look at those scriptures very carefully, you'll see that it's a pretty difficult club to join as you're supposed to be a male virgin without sin, with no deceit in your mouth.

01:24:00

Sounds a little bit like Christ, but since that is the parameters you need to enter, it gets quite bizarre.

01:24:14

Now, and what that means, Chris, is every other Christian is a secondary Christian, not a true born -again

01:24:20

Christian. They're discouraged from believing that they're born again, and so all of the promises of the

01:24:26

New Testament apply to the 144 ,000 when it's speaking to the elect, when it's speaking to God's children.

01:24:35

But what is also fascinating is if we were to look at Revelation 19, and even in their

01:24:41

Bible, it says this, "...after this I heard what seemed to be a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven crying out hallelujah."

01:24:50

That great multitude in heaven should not be in heaven because the Jehovah's Witness believes that the great crowd will only be in the new system and physically on earth.

01:25:00

If I could just bring you back to the New World Translation, there was another that has slipped my mind because it's a damnable offense.

01:25:08

In John 14, Jesus tells us to ask me, ask me anything.

01:25:16

I'm just going to get there real quick so I don't misquote.

01:25:22

If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. In the New World Translation, it conveniently says ask anything in my name, and this is because they don't pray to Jesus, and you're not allowed to pray to Jesus.

01:25:34

He is a created being. Just subtracting that one word, but it's

01:25:40

Christ's word, asking us for prayer, and when we compare that to the second -to -last scripture of the

01:25:46

Bible in Revelation, we see it is a damnable offense. If you add anything like the word other, or remove anything like the asking of me, then the plagues of this book will be given to you.

01:26:00

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to them, they did. God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, not only the words, but they took away from Jesus' words, asking for prayer,

01:26:15

God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. Well, we have a listener.

01:26:25

We have, let's see, I just had it right in front of me. This happens to me a lot. I'm getting old and getting very senile.

01:26:35

Here it is. We have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island.

01:26:42

Hey, I hope Ronald lives close enough to Port Jefferson to visit your congregation.

01:26:49

But Ronald has something to say about Greg Stafford.

01:26:57

He asks, I was wondering if you are familiar with Greg Stafford, who was a

01:27:03

Jehovah's Witness and was an apologist for Jehovah's Witness theology, but was doing things on his own as a maverick, from what

01:27:13

I understand, and debating people such as James White without the permission of the

01:27:20

Kingdom Hall and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. He had come to a belief,

01:27:27

I'm not saying this term is something he uses for himself, but it could be accurately called henotheism, where you have an adherence to one particular supreme

01:27:40

God out of several other gods. And he believed that Jehovah was the supreme

01:27:47

God, but came to believe that Jesus Christ was another God, but just an inferior

01:27:53

God, and that is a crucial difference, from what I understand, from what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach.

01:28:00

I am also asking, how on earth cannot the

01:28:05

Jehovah's Witnesses believe in something like that when Jesus Christ clearly receives worship and never forbids worship for himself by those who are worshiping him in the

01:28:21

New Testament? You know, I think you're going to find that your typical cult members, whether they're

01:28:29

Jehovah's Witnesses or LDS missionaries, while very zealous and with hearts seeking to please and working to please their creator, they know about six or seven percent of the

01:28:45

Bible very well. And so they will be focusing on the scriptures that show

01:28:51

Jesus' humanity. The Father is greater than I am.

01:28:56

I cannot, you know, I don't know when the end is going to come. They're focusing on Christ's humanity, and they also do something else.

01:29:03

They use a lot of reasoning. Wouldn't Jehovah want this? Doesn't this make sense that Jesus did this?

01:29:10

And when we study theology, we're not studying anthropology. We need to put ourselves aside and commit to Scripture, believing that all

01:29:20

Scripture is inspired, and then turn around and say, God, you tell me who you are.

01:29:26

You tell me what you want me to know. And then we see the Trinity. We see the beauty of the

01:29:32

Trinity, and also the mystery of the Trinity. And sometimes we simply have to say, I can't reconcile this in my three -pound finite brain, but this is who

01:29:42

God says he is, and I can't walk away from this either. These truths tie me in.

01:29:48

So when we have John 1 .1 saying that Jesus was a

01:29:53

God in their New World Translation, I ask them to turn to Isaiah 43 .10.

01:30:00

And in Isaiah 43 .10, we see that, you are my witnesses, declares the

01:30:10

Lord, my servant, whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he, that before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

01:30:18

How many gods does Greg Stafford or the Jehovah's Witnesses honor?

01:30:24

How many gods do they believe? If Isaiah Yahweh himself is saying that there is no god formed before me nor after me,

01:30:33

I was a detective when I came to Christ, and I could read this and say, if I'm looking for a burglary suspect,

01:30:44

I'm either looking for one person or two people. And when I see that two people can use the same identity, and we can refer to them either, we can refer to them singularly, then

01:31:00

I see that this is groundbreaking, but this is

01:31:06

God. Why shouldn't God be groundbreaking? And so my finite mind has to say, well, in Isaiah, he's alone, and in John 1, he is with him.

01:31:16

But that to me means that there are not two gods. It is one God. Jesus can call himself

01:31:22

God, and he is. We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who wants to know,

01:31:32

I know that many cults have become more and more liberal over the years. A classic example are the

01:31:40

Mormons, otherwise known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints. What do you know about the

01:31:46

Jehovah's Witnesses in regard to that? Are they still standing firm in their rigidity as a right -wing cult?

01:31:55

Obviously not describing themselves as a cult, but are they giving into any of the pressures of society to be softer on issues like homosexuality and other matters?

01:32:09

As far as I know, they're standing strong on those things, but we can throw away terms like liberal and right -wing when it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses because they're politically neutral.

01:32:19

They do not vote. They do not run for office. So that language would not work for them.

01:32:26

However, they take what theologians would say would be a conservative stance on things that are spelled out to be sin in Scripture, and as of recently, they have not budged on those things.

01:32:46

But there is no grace in their theology either. Do they use the word?

01:32:51

Because a lot of false religions use the word grace, but they redefine it. The Mormons use the word grace.

01:32:58

The Roman Catholic Church uses the word grace. They use a different term, which I don't know if it's that theologically inaccurate, and they'll use the term in their

01:33:07

Bible. It will say undeserved kindness. I think that's because they want to move from Christianese, but it also—grace could be described as undeserved kindness.

01:33:17

Yeah, unmerited favor as it's normally defined. Before we go back to any listener questions,

01:33:27

I want now for you to let our listeners know how you came to discover true

01:33:33

Christianity and how providential things that the

01:33:38

Lord rose up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. So, yeah, thank you for that.

01:33:45

So I walked away in 1993—92 to 94

01:33:51

I walked away, and I embraced agnosticism. I was without knowledge, and I was comfortable with that.

01:33:59

It allowed me to follow my own heart, which we know that that's a dangerous thing.

01:34:05

Thank God he protected me from myself, because I met a wonderful young lady who is from Long Island, my wife

01:34:15

Christine, and she was raised Catholic to very healthy, normal parents. And we had our children.

01:34:23

In 98 and 2001, we had our sons, and Christine was the spiritual head of the family, bringing them to the

01:34:30

Catholic Church every Sunday, and I bounced around from reading about Buddhism and to, you know, reading about everything under the sun.

01:34:42

Looking back, I realized that I was seeking. And in God's providence, he put two incredible Christians into my life.

01:34:53

My next -door neighbor, who moves next door to me and happens to be a cousin through marriage, and we become very, very close friends.

01:35:02

And sitting in my backyard, he asked me if I believed the Bible was God's inspired word, and this triggered an old memory of knowing 2

01:35:11

Timothy 3 .16. It is inspired. And as I said, yes, it is inspired, then the inner voice inside of me said, why aren't you reading it, you fool?

01:35:20

And I started reading it that day. And so Eric Van Squyke was listening to this and goes to Hope Reformed Baptist Church with pastors

01:35:30

Rich, Anthony, and Chris. Very good friends who sponsor this show.

01:35:36

That's right. And are bringing you to my pastor's luncheon. Yeah, yeah, and I think

01:35:44

I'm taking the ride out with them. So he started witnessing to me that evening, and I started reading the

01:35:51

Bible. And then another gentleman, an elder from Dix Hills Evangelical Free Church, his son played soccer with my son.

01:35:59

Our boys played high -level soccer. And the last barbecue before they went off to college, he asked me, if you died today, where would you go and why?

01:36:11

These are two very important questions to ask people. If they believe the Bible is God's inspired word, and then

01:36:16

Gene McCone asked me, if you died today, where would you go and why? And as I began to answer,

01:36:23

I think I've been good. It hit me, Jesus died for me. And I think in that moment,

01:36:29

I was saved and or recognized my salvation. And that led me on a path of wanting to undo everything

01:36:38

I had ever done wrong as a Jehovah's Witness in preaching a false gospel. Very bold.

01:36:43

And how did you realize that God had placed the call upon your life to enter into pastoral ministry?

01:36:49

So I was working as a Nassau County cop and at that point a detective. And I started to realize that I wanted to be an apologist.

01:36:59

I got the opportunity to speak at a Witnesses Now for Jesus conference.

01:37:05

It's people who have left the Jehovah's Witnesses and become Christians. And I got to speak and give my testimony.

01:37:11

And Pastor Pete Jansen, you know, was a teacher before he was a pastor. And he saw the

01:37:17

YouTube link and he says, I think I'd like to put you in the pulpit. And he gave me an opportunity to speak on the deity of Christ.

01:37:24

And it just, you know, once God starts pointing you in a direction, starts leading you in a direction, it doesn't really matter what your plan is.

01:37:32

He's the sovereign one. And so he just led me in having to speak about him and having to share him.

01:37:39

And this caused an incredible change in our family. Our older boy who was in college started going to the

01:37:46

Fellowship of Christian Athletes at Elon University where he was in school and playing soccer.

01:37:52

He ended up his senior becoming the president of that campus's FCA. Our younger boy, who's now in the

01:37:59

Coast Guard, just became in love with the Lord. Anthony became in love with the Lord and was on fire for the

01:38:04

Lord. Jimmy, our older boy, ended up graduating from his undergrad, going to Mercy Hill Church in Greensboro, North Carolina, and getting his master's degree from a

01:38:18

Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. And now him and his wife, Jansen, are opening Port City Church in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

01:38:27

And that's where they moved about two weeks ago. And my younger son is now at Nancemont River Church outside of Norfolk, Virginia, where he's in the

01:38:38

Coast Guard. And my boys witnessed to my mother, this former Jehovah's Witness, and they just shared scripture and prayer for her, and she ended up giving herself to Christ as well.

01:38:50

So it started to explode through our family, friends, and as I was working as a detective,

01:38:58

I became a special victim squad detective in child exploitation services. And for this cop who had 20 -plus years on the streets dealing with victims of all sorts,

01:39:10

I finally had on my hands a true victim, a child whose soul had been touched, a child who had something ripped out of them.

01:39:18

And the only thing that's going to fix this child and fix this family, more than me taking that predator away, more than me fighting with the district attorneys and the judges and trying to get them as much time as possible, would be me sharing

01:39:31

Christ with them. And then I looked up and I said, this world is becoming so secular. Every time

01:39:36

I speak about Christ, I'm risking my pension. I have a pension that I could walk away and keep.

01:39:42

And at this time, we had become fully independent as Harborview Christian Church.

01:39:48

We were becoming more and more Reformed. Pastor Pete has two elders, myself and another elder,

01:39:56

Paul, whose dog is named John Calvin. They're going to be getting a female

01:40:03

Doberman, too, nonetheless. The female Doberman's name will be Tulip. So, as we were tacking to the right, and then there's one more,

01:40:15

I have to give you one more bit of providential God reaching into my life, is now as a detective, before I went to Special Victim Squad, I'm a regular squad detective handling a stolen check that had defrauded somebody.

01:40:29

And it came from a church in South Dakota, River Community Church in South Dakota in Del Rapids.

01:40:41

I called the pastor, and as we're talking, he says, I detect a future in ministry for you.

01:40:48

I said, really, you do? And I was thinking, Pete and I were already thinking this. And he says, you know, we have a program called the

01:40:56

Timothy Pastoral Apprenticeship. He says it's a church -based theological training program designed to prepare men for pastoral ministry.

01:41:05

There's two components to it. You have your apprenticeship component, and you have your academic component.

01:41:11

For me, that means being on Zoom, and the apprenticeship means being in ministry with Pete, preaching semi -regularly, going to meetings, and just seeing what it means to be a pastor of a small church.

01:41:26

And so, when I retired, I reached out to those guys a couple years later, and they said, God's providence again.

01:41:32

And I started studying with them. This past April, I had my ordination, and Pastor Rich Jensen honored me by sitting on my council.

01:41:43

He didn't bring any easy questions though. I know that Rich would not bring easy questions.

01:41:49

And you should ask him about his own ordination interview, where I was actually present.

01:41:55

And he was grilled on his post -millennialism, let me tell you. Can I, did infralapsarian come up?

01:42:03

I don't recall that coming up. There's a story to that. Okay. I don't know if we'll have time to go into that today.

01:42:11

I'm sorry? He'll have to tell us in September. Okay. But we are going to our final break right now.

01:42:22

And if you have a question, send it in quickly, immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:42:28

We'll be right back. Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co -hosts of the

01:43:14

Just Thinking Podcast. To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org,

01:43:20

and click on events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible, nearby the conference venue in Washington, DC.

01:43:29

So join me and Chris Arnson, September 15th through the 17th in Washington, DC, to the

01:43:34

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01:43:41

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01:49:01

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the

01:49:09

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sulay Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the

01:49:18

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Samson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the

01:49:25

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the

01:49:33

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of East Fort Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the

01:49:41

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of the

01:49:47

Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

01:49:53

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew

01:49:59

Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:50:11

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

01:50:21

Hi, this is John Samson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

01:50:26

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

01:50:32

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

01:50:42

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

01:50:51

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

01:50:58

Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

01:51:07

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

01:51:12

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

01:51:21

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

01:51:28

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

01:52:00

Transcribed by https://otter .ai

01:52:29

Please register for the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon today by calling 631 -291 -7002, 631 -291 -7002, or by visiting ironsharpensironradio .com,

01:52:49

ironsharpensironradio .com. This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, hoping to see you

01:52:54

Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania for Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.

01:53:12

And I'm so thrilled that we are getting registrations from men in ministry leadership from as far away as Massachusetts, from Georgia, from North Carolina, from Virginia, from Long Island, New York, where Pastor Jason Contino today on the show, he is going to be traveling from Long Island with the men in ministry leadership at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.

01:53:44

And we've got men coming from New York City and upstate New York. And I could go on and on and on.

01:53:50

I'm so thrilled. This is definitely going to be the largest turnout that we've had in the history of the

01:53:56

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheons that date back to the 1990s. They were the brainchild of my precious late wife,

01:54:04

Julie. And since she has gone home to be with the Lord, they continue in loving memory of her and in tribute and honor to her.

01:54:13

If you haven't registered yet, if you're a man in ministry leadership and you could get there, please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:54:20

and put Pastors Luncheon in the subject line. We have a

01:54:25

BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, do the Jehovah's Witnesses still forbid blood transfusions for any reason?

01:54:35

And are there other medical things that they prohibit? They have flip -flopped on a few medical things that would include organ transplants.

01:54:45

They now allow organ transplants, but they still do not allow blood transfusions.

01:54:52

They allow different types of blood products that could be manufactured, but nothing that comes from another person.

01:55:06

They see that as a form, they would say, a form of cannibalism, where it's said to keep abstaining from blood, that meant eating, but apparently they still do.

01:55:19

And that's what that movie you were speaking about earlier was about.

01:55:25

The young lady had hemophilia and that's what that movie was about. Yeah, that was an excellent movie, wasn't it?

01:55:32

Yeah, I'll tell you, I had an aunt walk into the room who used to be a

01:55:37

Jehovah's Witness, now is not. She was watching it for a few minutes, five, ten minutes, and she said, is this made by Jehovah's Witnesses?

01:55:45

That's how accurate it was. That's how accurate it was. She didn't know if it was derogatory or not because it was simply accurate.

01:55:54

Yeah, the only thing that I, upon googling Jehovah's Witnesses that I found that may have not been very typical is the mother who was the

01:56:04

Jehovah's, the primary Jehovah's Witness in the film was wearing women's slacks, and from what

01:56:11

I understood, that is frowned upon amongst the women in the JWs. Am I wrong on that?

01:56:16

Was that outdated information? I don't think it's that. I mean, they are going to wear dresses or skirts either out in field service or to the meetings mostly, but if she was wearing slacks to go visit her daughter or to do other things, that would not be frowned upon.

01:56:35

Actually, she was in a Kingdom Hall meeting when she was in the movie. Yeah, so that might have been accurate, and it probably was a female who picked up on that, something us guys don't even notice.

01:56:48

Well, if you could summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

01:56:56

Well, I think the big things to take out of this is their Bible is very different, but like you said,

01:57:02

Chris, so eloquently, you can still bring them to Christ through the Bible. Remember, this very zealous person that comes to your door or your meeting in the street, remember to pray for them, remember to know that they are totally 100 % lost, they're following a cult, they don't realize it yet, and simply it's our job to plant seeds.

01:57:23

So you can ask them things, and the other thing is when you witness to them, you will best be served by guiding them through questions, not telling them that they're wrong, asking them questions that might lead them to realize that they're wrong.

01:57:42

There's a book by a gentleman, David England, called Getting Through to Jehovah's Witnesses, Approaching Bible Discussions in Unexpected Ways, which really does a phenomenal job doing this, where you just simply guide them through your questioning, because they need to be the teacher, they're the one separating the sheep from the goat.

01:57:59

But when you leave, you want to leave a stone in their shoe, as Kukul would say, right?

01:58:05

You want to leave a stone in their shoe after the interaction. The other big things to remember is

01:58:10

Jesus is the I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one gets to the Father except through me.

01:58:16

And in John 5, verses 39 through 40, you search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

01:58:29

You need to know who Jesus is, you need to acknowledge him. I would recommend teaching them to do it while they're alive, and not when it's too late.

01:58:36

If anybody listening wants to get hold of that book that was just promoted by Pastor Jason, go to cvbbs .com,

01:58:43

a sponsor of this program, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com. Thank you so much,

01:58:50

Pastor Jason. I already know that I want you back on the program as a returning guest. I loved every minute of our conversation.

01:58:57

I look forward to meeting you face -to -face for the first time at the Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheon, and I want to make sure our listeners have your website.

01:59:04

Again, it's harbourviewchristian .church, harbourviewchristian .church.

01:59:10

Thank you so much. I want to thank all of our listeners, especially those who took the time to write in questions, and I hope

01:59:18

Susan and Issa Talcott comes to visit Harbourview Christian Church in Port Jefferson, Long Island.

01:59:25

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

01:59:32

Savior than you are a sinner. Amen. Thank you,

01:59:40

Chris. That was phenomenal. Thank you, brother. All right, I'll see you on the 23rd of September.