Christ Is Building His Church (Tamil) — Zac Poonen

The Two Trees: Independence and Dependence on God

Garden of Eden, there were those two trees that God, that Adam could choose from. And because he chose that one tree, sin came. We need to understand what is the significance of those two trees. One was where you take the knowledge of good and evil inside you and then you don't need to consult God anymore.

Then I myself know what is good and evil. I can decide what is good, what is evil. It is a life of independence of God. That is the meaning of that tree. The other tree was the tree of life. That is God himself, the Holy Spirit.

And that is a picture of a life of dependence upon God. That means, Lord, I don't know what is good and evil. Please tell me what is good and what is evil. One is living by law. The law was like a tree of knowledge of good and evil.

To worship idols is evil. To honor your parents is good. To honor your parents and to commit adultery is evil. To keep the Sabbath is good. The law was like that. Big list of evil things, big list of good things.

And in the whole law, in Exodus, Leviticus and all those books, somebody counted, there were 613 commandments. Some about 380 of them was what you have to do and some 250 what you have not, should not do.

So it is a big list of what you must do, what you must not do. This is good, this is evil. Now there are many churches also that keep their people like that. This is good, this is evil. You must not do this, you must do this.

You must not do this, you must do this. That is all. It brings death. It is living under the law. That is good for those who don't have the Holy Spirit. And the law will never bring life. It will only make you look nice on the outside.

External Religion and the Pharisaical Life

And there are many churches that do that. They have all types of rules on, you know some churches, the women must wear long sleeve blouses. And you must wear white when you come to Sunday service. And you must not wear any ornaments.

And all, when you see such sisters sitting, oh, you think they are such a holy people here. It looks very nice on the outside, but they go home, and they gossip, and they backbite, they criticize, fight for.

Their inside is a filthy cup. They are like graves that look nice on the outside but inside full of dead men's bones. These are the type of Pharisees and Pharisaical teaching that Jesus was against. What was he against?

Cleaning the outside of the cup without cleaning the inside. Getting an opinion from men that you are a holy man, holy woman. And it is possible that many of us also are like that. You are so worried about what do other people think about me.

And we try to make everything look nice on the outside. You know, when you tell your daughter, if you dress like that, what will people in the church say? You are a first class Pharisee, father or mother.

You want your daughter to dress in a particular way for your honor. Why are you worried what people in the church say? What you should tell your daughter is, what will Jesus say? But that is not what you tell her.

You tell your son, if you behave like that, what will people in the church say? I am an elder brother, what will they think about me? You are a Pharisee. You are interested only in your honor. We must only be interested in telling our children what will God think about it.

That is why I don't make rules in our church. I don't even tell people you should not have a television in your home. I don't tell sisters what type of dress they should wear. I say, you must be modest, otherwise you will be tempting other people.

That is not good. I remember one sister asked me in Bangalore, Brother Zack, can you tell me how I should dress? Young sister. I said, I am not going to give you any rules whether you should wear churidar or sari or anything or western dress.

I am not going to tell you. No, that is not my business. I am not a tailor. I am a servant of God. So, I will tell you how you should dress. If Jesus is living in the next street, and one day he gives you a phone call, please come to my house.

This is Jesus. Please come to my house. I want to go for a walk with you in the market place. How will you dress? Dress like that every day. Simple. Did I tell her what is the length of your churidar should be or how much the back cut in your blouse should be?

That is not my, I am not a tailor. I say, if you can dress like that to go and meet Jesus, dress like that. But if your conscience tells you, Oh, I can't go and dress like that when I am walking with Jesus.

That is a simple principle. It is a principle of life. Not a rule about dress like this, dress like that. When you understand that principle in everything in life, you know, some parents tell their daughters now when you go to church, you must dress very modestly.

When you go to work and all, you dress as you like. So, what does that mean? That when you go to work, it doesn't matter whether Jesus is with you or not. You don't want Jesus with you when you go to work?

Living Continually in the Presence of Jesus

See, we want Jesus to go with us everywhere. People ask me, can I watch this television program, can I watch that television program? Can I watch this movie? I say, just imagine Jesus is sitting next to you and you are watching this program.

Can you tell Jesus, Oh Lord, you must watch this program, this is really good. And he says, okay, I'll watch with you. But if he is going to get up and say, you watch it, I am not sitting here. You want to be without Jesus?

You know, many things in our life we do without Jesus. We are afraid of men. For example, if a brother from the church is in your house, come to visit you. Will you and your wife have a fight with each other in front of him?

Even if he is a young brother? No. But after he goes, now we can start the fight. Why? Now only Jesus is here, who is bothered about him? But before that, this young brother was here, we should not fight.

You see how we are living without Jesus. We think Jesus is in the house, he is not there. We are living by rules. We must develop the habit of living in the presence of Jesus. The tree of life is Jesus Christ through his Holy Spirit.

We can say the tree of knowledge is the old covenant and the tree of life is the new covenant life. And to live in this with the tree of life means I am living with Jesus in me. I cannot read a book which Jesus cannot read with me.

I cannot watch anything on the computer because Jesus cannot watch with me. Nothing. I don't want to read anything on the computer or see any picture on the computer where Jesus cannot sit and watch with me.

I don't want to watch any TV program Jesus cannot watch with me. When I go to office, I want to have Jesus with me. I don't want to say anything or sign any statement which Jesus cannot watch and see me doing.

When you live like that, you don't need any rules. Because you got life, you got Jesus Christ. That is new covenant. You don't have these 613 commandments like in the old testament. So many churches are living under old covenant, rules and regulations.

You must pay your tithe. You must speak in tongues. God does not force us to do anything. Everything we do joyfully. Everything. Because we do it in the presence of the Lord. So after sin came into the world, we read here in Genesis chapter 3, that God put in verse 24, a flaming sword of fire going round in every direction to guard the tree of life.

The Sword, the Fire, and the Way to the Tree of Life

In front of the tree of life, there is a sword and a fire. All directions. Whichever way you come, there is a sword and a fire. You cannot reach the tree of life without a sword and a fire. And I will tell you what the sword symbolizes.

The sword symbolizes the cross where you have to die every day. And the fire symbolizes the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist said, Jesus will baptize you in the Holy Spirit and fire. So that is how I come to the tree of life.

That tree of life is Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit leads me to that tree of life. And if I take up the cross every day and I am filled with the Holy Spirit every day, I can live in the tree of life every single day.

I don't need any rules then. You don't need any rules in your life when you are led by the Holy Spirit. See it says in Galatians 5, verse 18, if you are led by the Holy Spirit, you are not under the law.

That is like saying, if you allow the Holy Spirit to lead you, you don't need any rules. So God wants to dwell in a house which is on fire like the burning bush. He wants to build a house like that. Your life must be like that, your home must be like that, your church must be like that.

Counting the Cost of Building God's House

So let's look at that. What does the sword do? Jesus said three things. In Luke chapter 14, he was talking about building God's house, God's dwelling place. And he says in verse 28, if you want to build a tower, you have to first count the cost.

See nobody builds a house without finding out how much it will cost me. If you start building a house without counting the cost, what will happen? Verse 29, you lay a foundation and then you can't finish it.

You see some houses like that, only foundation. You come after 10 years, you find still foundation. They have not built anything on it. Jesus said, don't be foolish like that. Everybody who sees that will ridicule you.

Many people's Christianity is like that. People make fun of them, what type of Christians these are? Because there is no house. We have to build a house for God. It must not be only a foundation. So there, Jesus said that story in the midst of three conditions to build this house.

He says, if you want to be my disciple, there are three areas where the sword must do a work in your life. That is like that sword in front of the tree of life. First of all, the sword must cut off your human attachment to your parents and your wife and children and brothers and sisters.

Discipleship and Attachment to Family

Verse 26, he is talking about building the tower, remember? How you don't end up with only a foundation. First of all, check this. You know, we all have a human love for our father, mother, wife, children and all.

There is nothing wrong in loving them like that. But when Jesus Christ comes into our life, our love for Christ must be much more than our love for all these people. And if you don't cut off that human attachment to all your relatives, you will not be a disciple of Jesus Christ.

Because your father and mother will say something, and then you don't follow the Lord. Or you love your wife and children and disobey the Lord. Or your brothers and sisters. So, the first thing Jesus said is this human attachment to people must be cut off with the sword.

You remember once he said these words? He said, I did not come to bring peace on this earth. I came to bring a sword. See, Matthew chapter 10 and verse 34. A lot of people called Jesus the Prince of Peace.

But he said in Matthew 10, 34, I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring a sword. Those are Jesus' own words. What sort of sword? Verse 35, I have come to separate a man from his father. It's amazing what Jesus said.

Your father wants to go one way, but the Lord is telling you to go another way. And you are very attached to your father. And the Lord is telling you to go another way. And the Lord brings a sword and cuts it.

You can be free. You know that's very important when you get married. So many marriages are spoiled because we are so attached to our parents. The Bible says a man must leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife.

But that is not obeyed in many marriages in India. And many Indian parents are also like that. Even after their children are married, they want to control them. They want to run their home. They want to control how they discipline their children.

Some of these parents are supposed to be believers. They don't have light. What does your Bible say in Genesis 2? You know, it is the first commandment in the Bible. Do you know what is the first commandment in the Bible?

Number one commandment. Not what he told Adam because we are not in the Garden of Eden. I'm talking about the first commandment for us. The first commandment in the Bible is Genesis chapter 2. It is the only commandment that was given before sin came into the world.

Remember these two things. The first commandment in the Bible and the only commandment given before sin came into the world. And it is one of the most disobeyed commandments by Christian parents in India.

And one of the most disobeyed commandments by Christian married people in India. If you believe it is the word of God, read this and tremble at this word. If you believe it is the word of God, read this and tremble at this word.

Genesis 2, verse 24. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and they shall become one flesh. Those of you who are married, I want to ask you, have you done that?

Those of you who are children are married, have you allowed your children to do that to you? Those of you who are children are married, have you allowed your children to do that to you? I have four sons and I have obeyed that commandment, otherwise I wouldn't preach it.

I say you got to leave me now and cleave to your wife, I told all my four boys. I will not tell you what to do. Do what you like, go where you like. Do what you like, go where you like. If you want any advice, I am always available.

But I will not try to interfere in your life in one way. If I come to your house, I will not sit at the head of the table. I will not pray at the lunch time. You are the head. My son, you are the head, you pray.

You know why? I tremble at the word of God. And God looks at me with favor because of Isaiah 66 verse 2. I don't pick and choose which verses I should obey. I start with the first commandment and say, let me obey the first commandment before I go to the other commandment.

I did that when I got married. My father and mother did not decide what I should do. I cared for them. Jesus cared for his mother even when he was hanging on the cross. Even if you are hanging on a cross, please care for your old father and mother.

Even if you are hanging on a cross, please care for your old father and mother. Even if you are a child, please care for your parents. But when it came to the way Jesus wanted to go in his ministry, he said to his mother, Woman, what have I got to do with you?

Don't tell me what to do. That is discipleship. I don't allow my father and mother to tell me how I should follow the Lord. I don't allow my father and mother to tell me how I should follow the Lord. I don't allow my wife to tell me how I should obey the Lord.

Or children or brothers or sisters. They can do what they like. There is a sword between me and others. That is the first condition of discipleship. I don't have any special friends. There is always a sword between me and every brother.

If he tells me something which is not according to God's word, I say, God bless you brother. You do that. I will not do that. I am not here to judge you. But between you and me, there is a sword. I am going to live by the tree of life.

I have tried to obey that commandment for more than 40 years. And I have seen how I can partake of God the tree of life. I believe that many of you have missed that because you don't allow the sword to cut off this human attachment to so many people.

We must honor our parents. We must honor them but we don't allow them to control our life. You must love your wife like Christ loved the church. Willing to die for her like Jesus did. But I will not allow her to control my life.

So this is a very important condition of discipleship. Sometimes father and mother will cry. Oh my son, my daughter, I brought you up from childhood. So many years I took care of you. My son, I brought you up for 28 years.

And now this woman whom you met yesterday, you are married to her and you have forsaken us. Please remember this attachment. You know when a little baby is born, there is a thing called umbilical cord that connects to the mother.

And the umbilical cord says, don't cut this. I lived with this only for 9 months. This is my sustenance. Please don't cut this attachment. Please, please, please. The doctor says nothing doing. Cut it.

What will happen if you don't cut it? You know the child will die. You have to free that child from the mother to live by itself. You have to free that child from the mother to live by itself. And like that, there is an umbilical cord that ties you to your parents.

And when you get married, you have to cut it. Otherwise your marriage will die. Like that baby will die. This is the first commandment in the Bible. This is the most disobeyed commandment by Christians in India.

By Christian parents who interfere in their married children's lives. They don't have any respect for the first commandment in the Bible. And disobeyed by so many Christian couples. You cannot be a disciple of Jesus.

If you don't let that sword come. And cut that connection you had with so many good friends and all that. Say, I love you, but Jesus is my Lord. I respect you daddy and mommy, but Jesus is my Lord. I respect you daddy and mommy, but Jesus is my Lord.

This is the first commandment. What is the second area where this sword must fall? Verse 27 Luke 14 .27. Even if he carries my cross, he will not be my disciple. What does it mean to carry the cross? What does it mean to carry the cross?

Taking Up the Cross and Dying to Self

See the cross has become an object of glory and worship today. All golden crosses around our neck. And on church buildings and all. People worship it today. You know how people are killed in our country with a hangman's noose.

You know how people are killed in our country with a hangman's noose. The judge gives the punishment that he should be killed. There is a rope like this. They put his neck into that. That's how they kill him.

He is standing on a platform. And the platform is removed suddenly. He drops down. And his neck gets disconnected and he dies. This is called a hangman's noose. Can you imagine anybody worshipping this hangman's noose?

Oh, how wonderful you are. And making a golden hangman's noose and putting it around your neck. Or on top of a church, one big hangman's noose. That is the cross. Today it is a hangman's noose. Those days it was the cross.

We don't understand it. It is not an object of worship. It is an object of shame. Like a hangman's noose. Today we are proud to get a cross for our daughter to hang around her neck. Some men also have a golden chain with a cross.

How many of you will get a hangman's noose to tie around your neck? We don't understand it. It is an object of shame. If you have been living in Jerusalem 2000 years ago, you will see many people taking the cross.

That is the way the Romans killed people. They were all crucified publicly. So one day if you saw one man carrying a cross and going, you knew very well where he is going. He is going to die. He has repaid all his debts.

He has said goodbye to his friends and relatives. He will never see you again. He is going to die. That is the meaning of the cross. Take up your cross and follow me. We don't understand it today. But in those days when Jesus said, everybody understood it.

Today the best way to say it is like this. The Lord says, go and hang yourself first and then follow me. Die! Then follow me. That is a cross. That is a sword. That puts me to death. Every day, I have to let that sword fall upon me.

Luke 9 .23. If anyone wants to come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Every day, you can't do it just once. Every day, I have to die. Dead men don't get offended.

If you get offended, it means you have not died. If you get hurt by what people do, supposing you say, I was hurt by what that person said. I was hurt by what my wife said or my husband said to me. Why are you hurt?

You haven't died, that's why. If you die, you can't get hurt. You try and poke a dead man, he is not hurt. If you are hurt by what somebody said, you have to die. There are people in the church who say, oh, the elder did not smile at me, did not shake my hand.

If somebody tells me that, I'll say, brother, in this church, we are teaching people to die. If you want to continue in this church, you better learn to die. Nobody will shake your hand, you die. The devil, die.

That is the message of the cross. That is the way to the tree of life. That is the way to build a house without just a foundation. Take up the cross every day. See this wonderful verse in Romans chapter 6.

It's a great liberating verse. Verse 11. I just want to read this small phrase. Consider yourself to be dead to sin. But alive to God. You know what happens in the resurrection? When Jesus died. Let's take the thief on the cross.

He was not dying for the sins of the world. He hung the thief on the cross. The repentant thief. He died. Finished. After that, he did not bother what his relatives said about him. Or what people stole his bank account or anything.

He's not bothered. People occupied his house. He died. And where is he now? He's in paradise. He's with God. That is how we can experience even while we are alive. It's a wonderful message of the gospel.

But while I die, while I'm alive, while I'm living, I can be dead to this world and live before God. Dead to the world. Alive unto God. This is what the cross does. This is what the sword does. This is how we come to the tree of life.

Crucified with Christ and the Life of Jesus

So, if you have not experienced this, it's because you are not taking up the cross. So, think of this phrase. Always consider yourself to be dead. Because Jesus took you and crucified you with him on the cross.

That is a great truth which many Christians have not understood because it is not taught. It is one of the great truths of the bible. Romans 6. Verse 6. Your old man was crucified with him. When Jesus died, he not only took my sins, he took me.

He not only took my sins, he took me. And he killed me on the cross. Now he comes to live in me. Like the apostle Paul said in Galatians 2 .20 I don't live anymore. Christ lives in me. Old Paul has died.

This is the true Christian life. Many of us, we come to the church and we think we have to improve our life. Don't improve it. Kill it. God will give you another life. God says, if you kill your life, I will give you another life.

If you take up the cross and die, if you don't die on the cross, I will give you the life of Jesus. It's a wonderful thing. See what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 4. 2 Corinthians 4. Verse 10. Always carrying about in my body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus can be seen in my body.

2 Corinthians 4. Verse 10. Always carrying about in my body. Now, read that slowly. Brothers and sisters in your Bible, read it slowly. When you read that verse in the Bible, read it slowly. The life of Jesus must be manifested in our body.

Is there anything greater than that? The holiness of Jesus in my body. The love of Jesus in my body. The power of Jesus in my body. The gifts of the Holy Spirit in my body. The humility of Jesus in my body.

The way to all that is here. For that, always carry in your body the dying of Jesus. What does it mean to carry the dying of Jesus? You know, when Jesus lived on this earth, He died to His own will every day.

He never did His own will. Whatever people did to Him, He said, I'm dead. That's why, when they spat on Him, or slapped Him, no reaction. You spit on a dead man, there's no reaction. You slap Him, no reaction.

You call Him a devil, no reaction. You see, so many of us are so offended by what somebody said or somebody did. Some of us think we know so much about the cross. God is trying to tell you, you got offended, my son.

You are not dead. Look at your reaction to that man who treated you badly. Some brother came to you, he said, I don't have any respect for you. I have no confidence in you. You got disturbed. Because you are not dead.

Dead person is not disturbed if somebody says, I don't respect you. I have seen that even people who think they know about the cross, don't really die. Even people who think they know about the cross, don't really die.

God, you have to make this real in my life. You have to ask the truth. It's not that nothing is living, Christ is living. There is a life in me. But it is the life of Jesus, who never gets offended, who forgives people who hurt Him, who are His enemies.

That is another life. That's a tree of life. I can come to that only if I am willing to die to this what I got from Adam. So when we think about God dwelling in us, we need to understand this if we want God to live in us.

If we want the life of Jesus to live in us like a fire, like the God in the midst of the bush, it can actually be true in your life. If you say, Lord, I choose the way of death to myself, always carrying in my body the dying of Jesus.

Trusting God Through Trials and Opposition

Whole day, I am going to die. Let my wife say anything, let my wife do anything, I am going to die. Let my neighbor do something or not do something. Let the brothers in the church treat me any way they like.

I will not get offended. I will not respond in the way they treat me. Because I have died. Christ lives in me. Do you want this life? Do you want this tree of life? Then ask God to show you what it means for the sword to fall upon you.

Your wives, you may say, if I live like this, my husband will take advantage of me the whole day. No, don't be afraid. God knows how to control your husband. God will not allow you to be tested beyond your ability.

1 Corinthians 10, 13 is a wonderful promise. If you don't know that promise, you must learn it by heart. 1 Corinthians 10, 13. God will not allow you to be tested beyond your ability. He will not allow you to be tested beyond your ability.

So He will not allow your husband to trouble you beyond what you can bear. He will not allow your wife to trouble you beyond what you can bear. He will not allow your neighbor to trouble you beyond what you can bear.

He will not allow your boss in your office to trouble you beyond what you can bear. So many people nowadays are threatening Christians, I'll do this to you, I'll do that to you. God will not allow them to do a single thing to you or me more than what we can bear.

So we are not afraid of the threats of people. See Philippians chapter 1. Philippians 1 verse 28. It's a lovely verse and I believe we need it in India in the coming days. Philippians 1 verse 28. It's a lovely verse and I believe we need it in India in the coming days.

See what it says. In no way alarmed by your enemies. In no way alarmed by your enemies because this is a sign of destruction for them but salvation for you from God. But salvation for you from God but salvation for you from God is a sign of destruction for them.

What does it say? No way alarmed by your enemies. In no way alarmed frightened by your enemies. Is that verse 27 or 28? Same verse. We are not alarmed by our enemies. Whatever they may do. Whatever they may say.

Why we are not alarmed? They say I'll kill you. You can't touch me without God's permission. You can't even take one hair from my head without my father's permission. Where are you going to kill me without my father's permission?

Where are you going to kill me without my father's permission? You can kill me. You can do that. But you'll only do it when my father permits you. See what Jesus told Pilate. Pilate threatened Jesus like this.

John 19 verse 10. You don't speak to me. Don't you know I've got authority to release you or to kill you. And Jesus, he wasn't frightened. Please don't kill me. No. He stood there. And I think he had a smile on his face.

Pilate. You have no authority over me. Except what my father gives you from heaven. I want to be like that. Towards all situations. Whatever may happen. I've been in situations where sometimes people have tried to threaten me.

I've said these words. You have no authority over me. Unless my father gives it to you. I'm dead. You know if you die everyday. One day when they want to kill your body. See. I've died everyday. You can kill my body.

Now, it's ok. Jesus lives in me. You can't kill him. This is a wonderful way to live. The third thing Luke 14. Jesus said Luke 14 You must not be attached to your possessions on this earth. You can't be my disciple.

Freedom from Possessiveness and Idolatry

Unless you give up your possessions. What does that mean. There must be a sword That comes between me and what I possess on this earth. I'll give you an example. There's money in this. It's my possession.

If I hold it like this It's my possession. Lord said don't hold it like that. It's yours, keep it. But hold it like this. You see the difference. It's not in your hand, it's my hand. But I'm not possessing it.

I'm having it. It may be a house. Don't say this is my house. This is my house. The sale deed is in my name. I live there. But this is not my God. This money is not my God. This job is not my God. God has given me a job.

He can take it away if he wants. He's given me a house He wants he can take it away. He's given me money. He can take it away if he wants. That's the way a Christian must live. That's the meaning of this verse.

Don't possess it. Have it but don't possess it. Don't hold it tight. Like Abraham He possessed Isaac. This is my precious son. I love him more than Sarah. I will never give him up. And God saw Isaac has become an idol for Abraham.

There may be some things in your life also Which are so precious to you. God says that has become your idol. God told Abraham Go and take this idol. And sacrifice it. That is very difficult for Abraham.

God gave him three days to think about it. He said go and walk for three days to Mount Moriah. Think about it for three days. God doesn't force us to quickly take a decision. He said sit down, count the cost, take three days.

No hurry. Abraham thought about it. God I agree, I'll do what you say. He took Isaac and put him on the altar. He took his knife. God See me. I am going to prove to you that you are my God. Not the son of mine.

As he did it God said stop. Take Isaac back. From that day He was not holding Isaac anymore like that. He was in his house But he was not his possession. He had him But he didn't possess him. All the things of earth We can have We can enjoy them.