WWUTT 2645 Q&A Christians Watching Spider-Man, Making Marriage an Idol, When Sex Offenders Go to Church

Should Christians see the new Spider-Man movie? How can you know if you have made your marriage into an idol? What sort of precautions should a church take if there is a registered sex offender? The answers to these questions when we Understand the Text.

Many of the Bible stories and verses we think we know, we don't. When we Understand the Text is an online ministry dedicated to teaching the Word of God in context, promoting sound doctrine while exposing the faulty.

Here's your teacher, Pastor Gabe.

Thank you, Becky, who is not along with me again this week. I am once again going solo. Let me start off with Psalm 53. The fool says in his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt, doing abominable iniquity.

There is none who does good. That's the first verse. Let me stop there for a moment. Oftentimes, when we read this first line or the opening to Psalm 14, which begins the same way, we read, the fool says in his heart, there is no God, and we attribute that to the atheist.

Certainly, the atheist is a fool for denying that God exists. But this isn't really talking about atheists. It says the fool says in his heart, there is no God. So it could be a person who does acknowledge God with his lips.

But in his heart, he thinks that God is not there. And there's not going to be any punishment for his sins. God does not see, and he will continue to go after abominable iniquity, it says, thinking that there will not really be any repercussions for his actions.

This person is a fool who thinks that God does not see from heaven and does not understand that he will have to give an account for all of his ways. Verse two goes on to say, God looks down from heaven on the children of man to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God.

They have all fallen away together. They have become corrupt. There is none who does good, not even one have those who work evil, no knowledge who eat up my people as they eat bread and do not call upon God.

There they are in great terror where there is no terror for God scatters the bones of him who encamps against you. You put them to shame for God has rejected them. Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion when God restores the fortunes of his people.

Let Jacob rejoice. Let Israel be glad. Remember the words from Romans chapter 14 that says everyone will have to give an account of himself before God. So do not think that God does not see he does. And there is nothing that you do that you can hide from God.

So confess your sins before him, ask that he would cleanse you of all unrighteousness. And as said in first John one nine, he is faithful to forgive us our sins when we seek after Christ. Friends, thank you for tuning in for the Friday edition of when we understand the text.

Christian Liberty and Watching Mainstream Movies

We take questions from the listeners at the end of the week. And you can send those questions to when we understand the text at Gmail dot com. That's our email address. Or you can send us a voicemail by going to WWU TT dot com and click on that voicemail tab there on the top right corner of the page.

Let me start with an email, then I'll go to a voicemail, then another email and then a voicemail. How about that? This first email comes from David in Tallahassee, Florida. Hey, Pastor Gabe, thank you for those movie reviews that you do on occasion.

I find them entertaining and helpful. And I've agreed with just about every movie you've either recommended or have said is no good. I appreciate that, David. The new Spider-Man film is coming out this weekend.

Have you seen it? Are you going to see it? Given that you've done movie reviews on your channel, do you think the studio would let you see an advanced screening if you promise to do a review? Are these the kinds of movies you're interested in or would you only do faith based movies?

Thank you again for what you do. Hey, I appreciate that, David. I do love going to the cinema. I enjoy the theater experience. I really do. Ever since stuff has become so online, like most people even stay home and stream it instead of go to the theater anymore.

Theaters have been losing money all over the place. And ever since this has been going on, it really kind of hit a peak around COVID. And then once COVID ended, it's kind of like the theaters have been struggling to try to fill up again.

There's still movies that will be blockbusters, but the kind of money that they're making now, even though you'll hear about a movie breaking box office records, and I think this new Spider-Man movie is going to do it too, by the way.

But even though they're breaking records when adjusted for inflation, they're not making the kind of money that they were making even a few decades ago. The number of people that are going to the theater and seeing movies is much fewer than it was even a decade ago.

This is because of streaming. Streaming is what's doing this. And you can buy a large TV pretty cheaply. Can you remember what it was like to have a big screen TV? How rare that was? Like on occasion, you might have a friend that who had a dad that made some moolah, and he had a really giant plasma TV or something like that.

But they cost thousands of dollars. The likelihood of you having such a television was very, very slim. We have two TVs, and they're pretty good size screens. The first TV that we still have upstairs, that was the one that I bought when Becky and I got married.

And if memory serves, I didn't even buy that. It was my dad who bought it when he came to our house the week of our wedding, and he wanted to be able to watch television on a larger TV. So he went ahead and bought us this bigger TV.

And then we got another one when some friends of ours moved, and they gave us their television. And that one's even larger. That's the one that's currently in our living room. But TVs are so available, and they're everywhere.

You can go to Walmart and buy a giant TV for like 300 or 400 bucks. They're hardly anything anymore. So because you can have a really great theater like experience at home, I think that's another reason why a lot of people aren't going to the theater anymore.

But I still love the theater experience. I love going and being able to sit in a big chair and watching a giant screen and getting premium sound. It's really discouraging when I buy a movie ticket, and they mess up the sound somehow, like it's out of sync.

The sound effects are way louder than the music, or the voice isn't matching up right or something. I've had that happen a few times, and that is so frustrating. And I go back, and I complain about it, and I get my money back.

I don't even know why that happens. I've never been in a theater to see how all of that is controlled or synced up. So I'm not sure why it seems like every fourth or fifth movie like that, something will be off with the sound.

When I did a review of the film Gods and Kings, which was the story of Moses that Ridley Scott directed, Ridley Scott's an atheist. It was the worst telling of the story of Moses that I've ever watched.

But when I saw that movie, it messed up like that somehow. I can't remember what the mistake was. I think I wrote it in my review, which you can still find online. But the film messed up somehow, and they gave us tickets.

So I got to see that movie for free and then had a ticket to watch the next film that came along. Yeah, the kinds of movies that I'm going to go see in theaters and do a review of are going to be more faith based films.

I won't go see Spider-Man and do a review of Spider-Man. Now, if there's some kind of superhero movie that ends up being some, I don't know, maybe they try to do a metaphor or an allegory with it that becomes very faith based.

I might go see that and do a review of that because that would certainly fit with the ministry aspect of what I do with when we understand the text. I'll give you an example of that Superman. So the Superman movies, they tend to keep trying to make Superman into Jesus.

Now, the most recent Superman film that came out last year that was written and directed by James Gunn, that one did not have as much Jesus symbolism to it. But just about every time there's a Superman movie, they try to make parallels with Christ.

Now, when Richard Donner did the film in, what was it, 78? The Christopher Reeve Superman. This is the one I grew up with when I was a kid. There really wasn't. There were not a lot of Superman Jesus parallels, not as many as you probably remember.

There was a speech that Marlon Brando's character gave, and he played Jesus' father on Krypton, Jor-El. And there was a speech that he gave in which he said, I'm giving Earth my only son or something like that.

And his speech made it sound like God was sending Jesus to Earth. That's what it sounded like. But that was kind of the extent of the parallels. But then later on, when Bryan Singer did Superman Returns, boy, he really pushed the Jesus symbolism in his Superman story.

And then the Superman movie that came out, was it 2015? Man of Steel, where Henry Cavill played Superman. That one really went overboard with the Jesus metaphors. When Clark Kent goes to a church and asks a priest advice and Jesus is over his shoulder, and then when he turned himself in and they asked what his age was, and he said he was 33.

And there's another scene where Superman's flying in space and he makes the shape of the cross. Anyway, they really pushed the Jesus symbolism there. So if a movie does something like that, I might see it and do a review and give you kind of like, well, I'll just say Superman's not Jesus.

And what they're doing with this character really is kind of messed up. It wasn't even what the creators of Superman intended to do with the character in the first place. This just kind of seems to be a cinematic thing.

But we got away from the Jesus symbolism with the Superman film that came out last year. So if there's a superhero movie that comes out and does something like that, I might do a review of it. Spider-Man, I don't expect is going to be that kind of a thing.

So I'm not going to see it and do a review. I generally don't see most of the big blockbusters that come out when they come out. Like if they hit streaming, then I'll probably sit at home and watch it.

If it's something that really interests me or the kids really want to see it, we'll go and see it. But I'm really seeing maybe three or four movies in the theater a year. It's not a whole lot. I did regret that I did not go see Great Awakening, a Great Awakening when it was in theaters.

I wish I had seen that one in theaters, but I talked about that one a few weeks back. A lot of movies, especially these superhero movies, they are Christian liberty matters. So if you feel like going and watching a movie at the theater, then that's between you and the Lord, whether or not it's okay for you to sit in a theater and enjoy that film and put something like that before your eyes.

There are certainly things that we as Christians should not be paying for or even giving our time and our eyes to. We should not be investing ourselves in things that are quite clearly sinful when we see them on screen, especially films that have sex scenes and things like that.

Christians should have nothing to do with that. And I have drawn a very hard line on that. But when it comes to other things that entertain us, video games, TV shows that we watch, movies we watch, even some of the music that we listen to, a lot of these are Christian liberty matters.

And you're never going to hear me recommend a film like Spider-Man. I'm never going to get on the podcast or make a video and say, go see Spider-Man. Because as I've said in the past, I don't want to cause anybody to stumble.

It may not be a good movie for you. You know what your limits are on your conscience. So be wise with the kinds of things you put before your eyes. As said in Psalm 119 .37, turn my eyes from looking at worthless things and give me life in your ways.

So I'm not going to encourage people to do things that are more Christian liberty kinds of matters. You can decide on that for yourself. And yeah, when it comes to the movie reviews that I do, Spider-Man just isn't going to be on the list.

But I thank you for asking your question. Let's go to a voicemail now. This one is from Rachel, and she has a question about marriage.

Recognizing When Marriage Becomes an Idol

Hi, Gabe and Becky. My name is Rachel, and I am a longtime listener of the show. I am reaching out because I have been wondering lately if I've made my marriage into an idol in my life. And I guess I'm just kind of wondering what are some signs that maybe you put your spouse on too high of a pedestal, if you will.

Thanks. Bye.

Well, that's a good question. So what kinds of signs can you be looking for in your marriage that would indicate you've put your spouse on a pedestal or maybe treating your marriage as an idol? First of all, before I give what really would be advice here, it would be counsel.

I don't know that there's anything in Scripture that explicitly says if you're doing this, then you're treating your marriage as an idol. But I can give some advice with regards to that. First, before doing that, let's consider Ephesians chapter five, where it says in verse 22, wives submit to your own husbands as to the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church, his body and is himself its savior. Now, as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing that she might be holy and without blemish.

In the same way, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body.

Therefore, a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ in the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

So in a marriage, a wife's role is to be one of submission and a husband's role is to be one of sacrifice. Well, what is the difference? One has authority, the husband has authority, and just because he is supposed to be sacrificial toward his wife, that doesn't mean he gives up his authority to his wife.

It's actually the proper exercise of that authority that he demonstrates sacrificialness in this one flesh union, whereas the wife is to be in submission to the authority of her husband, recognizing that he is the head of the household as God has positioned him there.

He is to be the picture of the way that Christ loves his church. Christ loved his church sacrificially. He did not give up authority to the church, like the church at no point has authority over Christ.

The church is in submission to Christ. We yield to Christ's authority, but he sacrificed himself that we would be cleansed of our sin and we would be sanctified, that we might be holy and without blemish, again, as said in verse 27.

So this is a good functioning marriage when the husband and wife are operating in this way. A wife is in submission and a husband is leading, but sacrificial. So what sort of things can you be looking for in a marriage to see if something might be out of whack?

Somebody is putting another one on a pedestal, expecting too much of them. Or maybe one person has regarded their own marriage as an idol. They have put their marriage even ahead of God. Well, let me give you a little bit of advice concerning that.

Let me give you some things to look for. I think I've got five listed here, and this isn't a comprehensive list. You might be able to think of some other things that can go on this list. But first of all, your sense of worth or joy or security rises and falls almost entirely on your spouse.

Like, what is your spouse's mood? Does your spouse approve of you? Are they giving you the right amount of attention? Is your spouse doing all the things that you expect your spouse to do? And then your sense of joy or how you feel today, your sense of worth, all of those things are dependent upon the condition of your spouse.

That would be putting your spouse on a pedestal. That would be treating your marriage like an idol. Instead of looking to Christ for your worth, instead of Christ being the source of your joy, instead of knowing that you are approved by God because of faith in Christ and the righteousness that he has clothed you in, Christ is supposed to be our source of joy and belonging.

There may be a marriage that you're in, in which your spouse is not giving you that kind of affirmation. That's heartbreaking. And I'm sorry if you're in that kind of a marriage. But 1 Peter 3 gives us counsel on how we should conduct ourselves in that kind of a marriage.

Whether your spouse is an unbeliever or maybe they're a believer, they're just not behaving like a Christian. Peter says there to wives of unbelieving husbands that they still need to be in submission to their husband.

And it's by their good conduct that they may win over their spouse. So likewise, with a husband who is married to an unbelieving wife, this is something we've talked about in recent Q &A episodes, in fact.

But if a husband is married to an unbeliever, he still needs to be like Christ to her, sacrificing himself for her, attempting to lead her in Christ, even if she doesn't yet believe in him. It's a tough dynamic to navigate a marriage where one is not a believer, but we still have an obligation to fulfill those roles that God intended for us to fulfill in marriage.

A wife being in submission even to her unbelieving husband and a husband sacrificing even for his unbelieving wife. But knowing that your worth and your sense of joy and your approval comes from God. It does not come from your spouse.

So that's first. Here's a second sign to be looking for. You prioritize pleasing your spouse over obedience to God. So would pleasing your spouse lead you to have to do something disobedient? Like, for example, maybe your spouse doesn't like that you give money to your church.

Why are you wasting money on the church? Why are you doing that? So would you stop giving money to God and therefore compromising in your conscience just because your spouse doesn't like it? Would you stop going to church?

Would you stop reading your Bible or praying? These are just some examples. So your attempt to please your spouse ends up causing you to be in disobedience. Then you've made your marriage an idol. You've made your spouse into an idol or put your spouse on a pedestal that puts them even above your own obedience to God.

Here's another sign to be looking for. Here's a third one. You expect your spouse to meet needs that only God can meet. When it comes to perfect unconditional love, when it comes to perfect emotional fulfillment, when it comes to ultimate meaning and purpose, when it comes to having no sense of loneliness at all, like knowing that God is with you, your spouse can't fulfill that.

That is only Christ who can do that for you. And when your spouse falls short in any of those areas, well, you're going to end up falling into despair. You're going to end up feeling about yourself that you're not good enough because your spouse is not doing enough to help to help meet that.

This is something that only God can give you. Only God can love you perfectly. Your spouse is going to let you down. You are married to a sinner. You know that you just have to recognize that. And your spouse needs to know that they are married to a sinner as well.

These are two sinners in this marriage. And so you are going to let each other down. You're going to break each other's heart at some point or another. Becky and I have talked about how joyful a marriage we have in the history of our marriage, which, by the way, tomorrow, August the 1st, is our 16th wedding anniversary.

In 16 years, we have never yelled at each other, never yelled in an angry way. Like I've spoken passionately to my wife in which my voice goes way up here, but she knows I'm not yelling at her. I'm just getting passionate about whatever it is that I'm talking about.

We have never angrily shouted at each other. There's never been an angry shouting match between us. Our children, praise God, will grow up and leave home being able to say, I never heard my parents fight like that with each other.

We have never called each other names before. Like I've not put my wife down and called her a name. And when we've talked about this, we have said this is only by the grace of God. We are not naturally like this as people.

The relationships that Becky and I were in prior to finding each other were miserable. They were awful relationships. And we were not good in those relationships either. We were in relationships with terrible people.

I'm just going to say that bluntly. They were. They were awful people. But we were not good either. It's not like it's not like we were godly in those situations. We well, in Becky's case, she wasn't even a Christian anyway.

In my case, I was a Christian, but I was not behaving as a Christian toward the person I was in a relationship with. We were constantly fighting and shouting with one another. So it's not like it's my natural disposition to not get mad and shout at somebody.

I am a guy that does have a tendency to yell. My kids will tell you that. Though I have never yelled at my wife, I have yelled at my kids before, and I'm ashamed of that. And sometimes I have gotten down on my knees and apologize to my children face to face because of the way that daddy acted.

But I've never had a fight with Becky in that way. And that is only by the grace of God upon us, upon our marriage. And I'm so, so grateful for that. And we've been able to use that to tell people you can have a marriage that's like this, that is God honoring in this way that isn't miserable every day.

You don't want to be miserable with your spouse. You don't want to create a miserable home environment. And even though we have had spats with the kids, we still have, I believe, succeeded in creating a home environment that they love coming home to.

The children love to be home with their parents and with their siblings. And we want them to have that kind of memory, even when they go from home, so that hopefully they can create that kind of household for themselves as well, modeling it after what they saw in their parents, as we desired to build a home on a foundation of Christ.

Our dependency in a happy home is still not on each other to be happy at home. It's still upon Christ. And even when my wife disappoints me or lets me down in some way, it does happen. And I've done it to Becky as well.

But if she disappoints me or lets me down somehow, sometimes I don't immediately confront it. I will go away and pray about it and think, is this something that I do need to confront? Or am I just getting too worked up about this and I need to let this go?

There was something that happened just recently that was like that, as a matter of fact. I told Becky not to buy a certain item and then she bought it anyway. And I will be honest, when I saw that in our bank record, my immediate reaction was I got mad.

I was like, I told her not to buy that. Why did she buy it? But when I had that feeling, I gave it to God. I submitted it to the Lord. And I said, Lord, maybe there is something here that maybe I just did not communicate it well.

Maybe it is my fault. So I can't get mad at her. Why don't we just talk about it? That's the better way to approach this. So I went to Becky and I said, babe, when I said not to buy this, I didn't mean just don't buy that one.

I meant we don't need that item at all. And then she was like, oh, OK, I'm sorry. So I misunderstood. So I didn't communicate it properly. And she didn't understand what I said with regards to whether or not we needed that thing.

So good communication there. We just talked well with each other. But I don't depend on my wife to be my joy all the time. I am very happy with my wife. We have a wonderful marriage that is a reflection of a godly marriage.

And like I said, I love the home that we have. I like coming home. There are days I don't want to go anywhere. I would rather stay at home and be with my wife and my kids. But my sense of fulfillment, my ultimate meaning in life, my joy, all of this comes from God.

And only God can meet that need. My wife cannot meet that need. But God will never do anything wrong against me. He is never going to let me down. And I need to exercise the same grace that he shows me with my wife and with my children.

And I can't have this attitude either of, well, my wife and kids need to show me love first and then I'll love them. See, that's idolatrous too. That's thinking way too highly of yourself over anybody else.

Especially as the head of the household, especially as the husband and the father, I am to be sacrificial and model that sacrificialness as Jesus gave it to me. So I need to show it even with my wife and with my children.

OK, here's another thing that you can be looking for to indicate whether you've made an idol out of marriage or you have put your spouse on a pedestal, your emotional and spiritual life is organized around them as the center.

So the decisions that you make, free time, friendships, hobbies, where we go, what we do, what we buy, even your theology tends to bend around a certain aspect of the relationship. I need to keep the relationship this way and I'm not going to do anything that could potentially compromise this position in the relationship.

Am I making sense with this? So sometimes there may be a problem that you just don't want to confront. And the reason why you won't confront it is because you think that the confrontation is going to create a bigger problem than the problem that you don't want to handle.

And so instead of of taking care of that, you're you are content with just leaving this where it is, which might be sinful. And it might not actually be loving toward your spouse when your spouse is doing something that might need to be corrected.

But you don't want to correct it because I just don't want to upset the apple cart here. I'm content with the way things are. And if I confront it, then it's just going to make things worse. Well, then that could be idolatrous.

That's selfish, too, because your spouse might need to be called out for something sinful, might need to be sanctified in some way. And you're not willing to do that because you would rather have the marriage this way.

Well, then you've probably turned your marriage into an idol in that sense. And here's the last one. Here's the fifth sign to be looking for. And this one, I think, can be the most obvious and the biggest one.

Number five, your spiritual disciplines and your Christian habits will atrophy or get bad because of the relationship. So are you not spending time with God? You're not reading your Bible. You're not praying.

You're not going to church. All of these things are diminishing because of your spouse. And it's like before I talked about this, but I said with regards to an unbelieving spouse, maybe you think your spouse has given you enough contentment that you don't have to focus on these things as much as you would have to if things were not going as well.

Do you know what I mean? It's kind of like we have that tendency to not call upon the Lord when things are really good, but then when things are bad, then we call upon God. So you found this certain level of contentment in your relationship that has caused you to not really focus on those spiritual disciplines as much anymore.

And we don't even really need to go to church every Sunday, do we? Things are just fine at home. And in that case, you've definitely made an idol out of your marriage. We need to be pursuing God together.

Husband and wife need to be in pursuit of God. And as we are focusing on God, we're drawing closer together, just like is said in Ephesians chapter four about the body of Christ, which is the church that we're all joined together in Christ.

And when we're all joined in Christ, then he makes the body grow in love. And it's the same way in a marriage. If you're joined together in Christ, that draws you even closer together. And Christ is growing your marriage in love.

And so Christ needs to be our focus. Beware of some of those things that may cause you to replace Christ with someone or something else or even put yourself in a position of wanting to feel or experience a certain thing in your marriage.

And that's what matters. As long as I've emotionally achieved to this place, well, then my marriage is in a good spot to the neglect of spiritual disciplines and your Christian growth that we should be pursuing on a daily basis.

Amen. Do those things make sense? I appreciate your question, Rachel, and thank you again for your voicemail. Okay, this next one comes from Brandon. Good afternoon, Pastor Gabe. I suppose I received this email in the afternoon.

I've listened to you for a while now, and I appreciate your ministry. I have a question and need some insight. And I apologize that this might be long. This actually isn't too long an email. When my daughter was seven, she came to me with questions about salvation.

And we talked for several weeks before I was convinced the spirit was working on her. And I then allowed her to go forward and join the church. She was worked with by our children's minister for several more weeks to make sure she understood and truly believed before she could undergo baptism.

She has wrestled with her faith for the last seven years, usually around high emotional events like summer camps and D-Now weekends. I think that's discipleship now. Is that what that stands for? She has spoken with our youth minister who confirmed that she seemed to truly believe at camp this summer.

She came forward again and said she wanted to commit her life to Christ. I got a call from the youth pastor asking if my daughter can be baptized again so that she is baptized on the right side of salvation.

I am uncomfortable with this as she already professed Jesus is Lord and was baptized. I can't find anything in the Bible calling for rebaptism. I appreciate any advice on what scripture says, if she needs to be baptized again, or how to address this with my church.

Thank you again, Brandon. Well, I appreciate your question. And really, Brandon, I think you should sit down with your daughter and just really have a conversation with her and find out where she's at in your heart.

It's good that you talk to her youth pastor, that you talk about this with anybody else at church or, you know, the camp counselors or anybody. That's all good. It's good to get their feedback on what your daughter has told them, but have a conversation with her and ask her why.

I'm only saying that because I don't get the sense from your email that you've had that kind of conversation with her, asking her why she wants to get baptized again. Why does it not feel like for her that it was real and it was genuine when she did it at the age of seven, especially when you and everybody else were looking for signs in her life that indicated that she was truly a believer?

Everything seemed to make sense. Perhaps she demonstrated fruit in her life. That's especially what you want to be looking for, especially with somebody that young who professes to be a Christian and is going to be baptized.

You want to be looking for fruit. Do they understand what it means to die to yourself and live to Christ? Do they experience remorse over sin? And I've interviewed kids. I've actually interviewed a lot of kids for baptism before.

I've baptized very few. I've interviewed a lot more than I've actually baptized. But something that will stand out to me whenever I interview kids that don't seem to be ready for baptism, one of the things I will identify is that there doesn't appear to be some kind of remorse over sin.

And if there's not a conviction over sin and that desire to repent and be holy, then the child is probably not ready yet in their understanding to be baptized. Of course, we're coming at this as Baptist, Presbyterian and a Lutheran.

And certainly there are other denominations that are going to tell you something different. But with our understanding of credo baptism, somebody making a profession of faith and being baptized based on that profession of faith, what was it about her profession that she's not convinced of anymore now at the age of 14?

And by the way, pedo baptism doesn't solve this. So if this was a pedo Baptist family, she would have been baptized as a baby. And now here she is at 14 wanting to be baptized. She doesn't even remember the first one.