Awesome Christian & Mormon Talk

Joseph Smith, Lorenzo Snow, and the Test of a Prophet

Home what time did you get here. Oh yeah congratulations can I submit to you.

Something. Just real quick sir. Just real quick. Okay. Joseph Smith in the King follow-up discourse. He said you have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. But I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see you have got to learn to become God's.

Just as Prophet Lorenzo Snow said as God is man once was. And as God is man may become. Right. Right. So if we go to scripture in Deuteronomy 13 1 there's the test of a prophet straight from God straight from the mouth of God.

He says if a prophet comes around you he's performing signs and wonders. He's doing miracles. Even if it looks legit right. But he's leading you after other gods. Don't believe don't believe them. And we know in the Bible that it says in Isaiah 43 10 that before me there was no God formed and neither shall there be after me.

Okay. I even I am the Lord beside me there is no savior. Okay. So what we know from Joseph Smith. He says that God's not God from all eternity. That he was once a man. Who's exalted. Exaltated. Become a God.

Okay. And what the Bible says that. Well someone if it God's preached to you that's different than scripture. Even if there's signs and wonders don't believe them. So Joseph Smith's already failed the first test of a prophet.

Jesus, the True Gospel, and the Test of the Spirits

How do you reconcile with scripture. What Joseph Smith says in his words. How do you reconcile with what the Bible says if he failed the first test of a prophet how can you trust. Jesus says that they'll be many who come in my name saying Lord Lord.

But he'll say depart from me. I've never knew you you workers of iniquity. When you die. Where. What are you. What's gonna you know. I just I know.

My question back at you like what what what what are you doing. Is this. I mean is this. I believe. I believe in Jesus I know it right here I can't deny it. I've been through things that I just know. I know Jesus is my Savior I know Joseph Smith is a prophet I know the Book of Mormon is true and I can't deny it.

And I guess I wonder like what's if we follow the example of Jesus Christ like he's spread love and doing good things. And I mean I feel like you know I don't think.

You're bad people but I'm not this way I'm not being loving right no no no no.

No no no no no no I just want to. I wonder like what what motivates you know hot Sunday morning to be out here you know like I don't I kind of I kind of am I you know teach you know like I believe what I believe in and I try and hold that sacred and I try and let other people do exactly what they want to do.

You don't believe the way you believe as long as it doesn't harm others. I guess that's my that's my you know question is.

Neutral but anyway any society. What was the question that you wanted to ask me. I.

Love, Obedience, and a False Gospel

Guess I just wonder what motivates. What motivates you you know please don't take that wrong I'm not saying you guys are bad or anything like that. I do not. By.

Any means. I want to let you know too we love all. Right. Love you guys. That's why we're out here. So Jesus Christ himself. I know you. You talked about vague neutrality in the sense where it's like what Jesus says man he says unless you believe that ego I mean which is that I.

Am.

Right the Jesus says opposite. He also says if you love me you'll obey my demands. You'll also. He also says that love abhors what is evil and cleans to what is good. Loving is telling people who are heading into a church that's teaching a false gospel about a Christ that did not exist a Christ of fiction to say stop that that Christ doesn't exist.

And that's fair. No. I appreciate you saying that because if that's what if that's if that's your motivation if that's what you believe then I'm all for.

Like that's it that's you that's cool right. Well here's the issue though. So if we also talk about motivations or a means to an end if we read in 2nd Corinthians 11 verse 4 it talks about Paul talks about false Christ Christ that don't exist.

It also talks about a different. So I'm not going to doubt you with your experience. I know you believe. I don't think the experience is valid because it says in 1st John to test the spirits so listen listen.

And also in 2nd Corinthians 11 at the end of the chapter Paul then starts saying that there's people who disguise themselves doing works of righteousness but their.

Means to an end corrupt their deeds so one of us is deceived what are you.

Saying but here's the thing why are you doing those things. Is it to become a God or is it to glorify God. So if you're doing something to become a God your your your means to an end are corrupting the deeds.

Grace, the Eternal God, and the Gospel of Works

Right I exist to glorify God and enjoy him forever. I'm not out here with any type of righteous work for myself. I don't deserve it. That's the thing. The beauty of the gospel my friend is that the eternal God the eternal God who created all things to literally uphold the universe by the word of his power but all of your morals in your body are being held together because of his voice.

Right. That God that God not created not created not the offspring heavenly mother and heavenly father the eternal God himself no beginning no end took on flesh and lived a perfect life and died a death that you and I deserve he rose from the dead to the right hand of the father who is reigning now and his righteousness and all of his glory.

So my issue is then you're going to try to make up some of those one six. He says that there's a different gospel that is preached and it's a gospel of works. Because he's talking about circumcision. That people were preaching that people had to be circumcised in order to come to Christ.

He says no if there's any works involved except the work of Christ to get you to be in peace with God that you are anathema. And that anathema is the yoke that you wear in regards to your works of righteousness.

Like tell me if I'm wrong but it's let's say in Mormon theology let me know if I'm wrong. If I were to die and I go to spirit prison would it be right. Right. So it's right. So we would have baptism for the dead and laying on hands.

That would happen in conjunction in this reality here people would get baptized for the dead and they'd be laid on hands because that has to happen in order to get to specific levels of the three levels of heaven.

Right. Those are works. Right. If I were to die is let's say I was in the desert dude and I believe in Jesus. Someone preaches to me the gospel of Jesus Christ the true gospel of the eternal God. Because we're talking about two different Jesuses here.

I'm talking about the one according to scripture not Joseph Smith. If I were to die and not be baptized I would still go be with God. Because that's just a work that represents my faith in Christ. Right.

It's it's opposite here. That's part of your yoke. That's part of that heavy burden that you have to wear. We've talked to many Mormons who have come out of the LDS religion sir and they talk about that.

And it's to my understanding I just want you to be free from that not free grace free to sin but free to love the eternal God who literally takes that part of stone and replaces it with the heart of flesh and causes you to observe his statutes the God that will be in you and he will work out everything for you.

That's the hope that we're here offering today sir.

Missions, Shared Respect, and Going Home

Well and I think that's I think that's great and that's why I asked about. You know your motivations. You know you always kind of wonder with stuff like this. I serve you know I'm sure you're familiar with missions.

Right. I serve a mission and you know it's it's an odd thing to be out in the world walking up to people hey you want to talk about Jesus. Right. Right. But I think it's a good thing because I think anytime you're spreading the word of Jesus I think it's a great thing.

You know and I think there's and I understand what you're saying. I really do have to go home. I do have a he was up all night and I'm exhausted. But you know I just I you know we differ and that's okay.

It is okay. You know and that's that's fine. I'm happy to take it. I think it's it's I in the story. I appreciate you guys are doing good things. You're out here talking about Jesus and I think we can differ.

And I think it's okay to differ and to love. And just you know I gotta go home. I really do. I have a screaming toddler at home right now. I'm exhausted. We got one of those too.