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Open Air Theology “Built to Conquer” -Caleb Gordon
What are you doing?
You never let us a guard that way you use a wooden match.
Preserves the flavor you see. But the worst curse would come upon the one who seduced him. Whose head would be crushed? By the seat of the woman and. The punishment was too severe.
What's wrong with you people. Are you ready to get back to work with pleasure. So senor Kramer.
What is this about?
Cigars. I choose to believe the Bible because it's a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They report to a supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies and claimed that their writings are divine rather than human in.
Origin.
But because of his own purpose and grace Which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began.
I'm Batman. I don't know why you're clapping. I'm talking about you. I Didn't come here to get amens. I didn't come here to be applauded. I'm talking about you.
Hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome to open-air theology. It is a great blessing to have you guys jump in and tune in live to this show tonight. I think we have a great show coming on here with Caleb. We'll introduce him here in a moment.
But not my name is Braden Patterson. I am the pastor of grace Bible Church in Moorpark, California. We meet on Sundays the Lord's Days at 1030 in the morning. So if you live near the area, we'd love to see you tomorrow for our worship.
We're so thankful to be a part of. I'm so I'm so thankful to be a co-host here at open-air theology along with Tom here and. If you haven't subscribed already go check out YouTube channel open-air theology subscribe to it.
And on that note, I will pass the mic down to our dear guest tonight Caleb. Hey guys, how's it going good?
How are you man?
Excited man Sound effects.
I got nothing but what church you go to where you from and all that good stuff. Oh, I am.
I live in Oklahoma, but I'm right on the Kansas Oklahoma border and I actually pastor a small little rural Baptist Church in Cedarville, Kansas, which is just just right over the border from me and We've been doing that for five years Living it live in a town called Bartlesville.
It's the home of Phillips 66 Frank Phillips and the petroleum company. So that's where I'm my home is my I'm not originally from here I'm originally from Wyoming my mom and dad Lived in Wyoming. My dad was a church planner for the Southern Baptist Convention in Wyoming Yeah moved from They lived here in Bartlesville, then he went to seminary with under dr. Adrian Rogers and then Moved to Wyoming.
That's where my brother and I were born and then we came back to Oklahoma to be with grandparents as they Were getting ready to Pass on and I got to as 11 year old boy got to Got the privilege of leading my granddad to the Lord got that as 11 year old boy Wow, unbeknownst to me my dad had been every you know going over a night after night Just pleading with him to repent of his sins and trust the gospel.
So the seeds were being laid and on a snowy Sunday morning church was canceled. But the cows still needed to be fed and as an 11 year old boy I said grandpa, you know if you're going to heaven or not, and he called he said Call me Caleb with a P He said Caleb.
I don't know I said as 11 year old little optimistic 11 year olds like you know Right, all you got to do is ask God to forgive you and he totally will and He's like it's that easy. I said absolutely. It's that easy and he's like, how do I do it?
And I just prayed with him as an 11 year old boy, and I Jumped out of the truck. I said daddy Grandpa got saved in my dad theological, you know pastor. He's like, oh sure, right? I've been at the table night after night after night Leading with them sure and he gets out tears streamed eyes face.
He's like Jesus saved me. I was like.
Boom. Wow praise God. Yeah, and he he died about four months later. Wow, you know right on time. Yeah, God works like that doesn't he he does pretty wild. Yeah, that's right. My name is Tom Sheppard and I'm a member of Grace Bible Church and Bernie.
I'm also the co-host of open air theology and even if none and I go out on the streets with my church members of my church and we go to different cities like Fredericksburg and Bernie in San Antonio and we go all over proclaiming Christ and him crucified.
Getting the Word of God out into the streets where the people aren't willing to come into the church. So we'll take the gospel out to them. So it's it's been exciting to do that you guys. I'm sorry about the the I didn't like the intro without the music listen.
It didn't sound good. No, I'll do something about that everybody.
That.
Beginning opener like pumps us up, but that one well, it's not as good with no music. Well, we'll get it figured out.
It was lame.
Listen, we're getting a whole bunch of copyright issues because we're doing it with different musics.
And so I need to see if my friend Aaron. I need to tag my friend Aaron in the comments and see if he'll write.
Yeah, right. Tell him to hook us up something with bad pipes or something and you know behind the voices of that. You know to make it no punk rock. Anything. Yeah, even Debbie said it was lame. My wife said it was lame.
Listen there can be anybody.
Anybody.
Can say, you know if I'm preaching or something of us singing or whatever it is, right? I get I get done and I get off the interface hugging you. Oh, you did fantastic pastor. You did great. You did great.
She's like, you know, wouldn't that great she told you true.
That's right lame. Brush your soul. I think it was Joel Beakey. He was. He was talking matter of fact. He was speaking at the Reformation Conference in Southlake and he was telling that he asked his wife he goes.
Well, how'd it go? And she goes? Well, she does not. Everything can be a home run or something like that.
That's awesome, hey, let me throw in some plugs here real quickly. So up in the corners. Again, or even down in the corners. You can see our YouTube channel open-air theology. Please go subscribe to open-air theology on YouTube If you're watching us from striving for eternity as we have 30 viewers right now.
Live.
Please.
That guy that man, I know I know that Andrew Rappaport guy. It's the the thorn and every believer's side.
Cold plunge himself.
Why up here? I don't know what happened. I don't know. I didn't click nothing. I swear. I'm sure you did.
So it's right behind my camera. Wow.
Look at that fancy tonight. This is open-air theology guys, and we don't know what we're doing still.
Go show some love though to striving for eternity. Seriously right behind this camera. There is a box.
I have Andrew if you're watching. I have not opened it yet, but he called my bluff on the.
What the heck our dear beloved great brother in Christ speaking of the thorn in the.
Heard someone asked for a thorn in the side and I appeared.
It's like that. It's like that pimple on the back of your neck. That won't go away Andrew Rappaport. How are you doing Andrew?
Listen it's still in the box. I get it's in my it's right behind the camera here. I've not.
Even knows the very first question. I'm gonna ask him.
Hey while moose is up, let me throw up some other things real fast. So yeah, go check out striving for eternity apologetics live open-air theology. Also, we're we're really wanting to promote this resist tyrants obey God by Jacob Tanner.
It is now I think about either out or it is it is about to be out. So go check that out on press dot founders org. Also Tom Shepard along with Jacob Tanner himself is going to be preaching at grace and truth conference in 2025.
Nice. That is a great thing. We also are gonna talk about this here momentarily. But we also are wanting to talk about this conference. I know I know two people that is actually here with us right now at this conference.
It's gonna be there Andrew Rappaport and Caleb himself Brothers looking forward to this conference. Go check this out. If our audience if you haven't seen this go look that also.
We're on Twitter now. We are on Twitter. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa, it's X.
Twitter's way too liberal X is way more cool. That's right.
X go check it out. I thought it was maybe going to be Chi or something like that, but.
Change my graphic on my website because I still have the.
Goofy bird the goofy bird. So go check out our Twitter be grateful lesson if you followed us there but the main reason we want you to go check us out there because we just started this is That dead man walking is doing a little bit of a voting thing going on right now.
We need you to go on and vote for all three of our podcasts. Most importantly open-air theology because that's what we're talking about right now. Then go check out Caleb's and then go check out Andrew Rappaport's and vote those ones and that order are.
Next round. Did that? Oh, wait a minute. I'm a co-host of open-air of My apologetics live with me Andrew Rappaport. Yeah, let's go. We're going both.
Caleb you have promote right now. Yeah, Caleb has.
Show. Yes, and.
Braden has the open-air theology show with Tom. Yes, and Tom has apologetics live with me. Right, and then I have the rap report. All of us at the Christian podcast community have the theology throwdown because I host it but there's all of us are on that.
So that's fantastic. So we actually have a better chance of winning but more than likely not. Yeah, you guys we're up against. Listen.
Doug Wilson last year and I got 38 of the votes.
Did you really. Yeah, no kidding. I was a win in my book. So that was before Doug Wilson even knew he was on.
Yeah. Yeah, and then he went after me and and and took me down. In the African plane.
Last year or the moose and behind you killed the moose, you know, so last year I actually was going against Mike Foster and Beat him because he forfeit. Is that a win though? Yeah. Well, I'm counting.
Next round.
We set up the cold plunge get the water in it get it chillin because Tom Shepard's going in that cold plunge.
To be there, I'm gonna try. I heard Brandon's outfit because I'm telling you right now I just have a feeling and I'm gonna say this that I I know he pees in pools. So, I don't know what he's gonna do.
Welcome to open-air theology guys. So Tom. Tom says he wants to go first in the cold plunge.
Gosh.
If it makes you happy.
I've got a hot tub. You can jump right into after you're done. No, no.
No, you always end on the cold plunge you you you go from the hot tub to the hot tub. Yeah, you start with hot end on cold. Yep. You sleep better that way.
Yeah, so don't you do that waking up in that the whole purpose? Well, yeah, you'll you. Actually it's better to do heat at night.
Technically. But but I can I agree with Tom's wife Debbie. Is that loud on this show. So folks in the audience. Somebody that knows how to do music. Can you just create something for Tom that he could play Tom?
Just you just gotta tell them how many seconds they need of audio to give you and and somebody. Someone that's musically talented.
Yeah.
And Tom some background music that he could put behind that that isn't copyrighted something. That's well. Create on your own and Tom will be happy to let everyone know that you the wonderful work.
You did so. What was interesting was is that you know, even the even I used Canva for it had like a little movie thing and. So Canva it's supposed to be. You know, everybody can use it. Yeah, I can use it.
But even that even that was copyrighted.
What I think it's so I have a song that is definitely copyrighted, but it still is allowed to play. It's just not in certain countries and The majority of my the majority of my stuff is listened to in America.
Not all of that. I have some that's in Europe and Africa, but most of it is in America. So.
Most of our stuff's in Japan.
That's why yeah good. I'll be there in May. Wow, are you really going to Japan. Are you speaking?
That I don't know yet. We'll see we'll find that out.
You could always do some open-air evangelism in Japan on the streets of Tokyo.
They are definitely gonna be different there than in other. Because they're not really Too much open to that.
No, but I do know that we were that you guys all know that if you watched the open-air theology podcast that there was gonna Be an open-air theology conference and we all know that that's been canceled.
The thing about that is that it was gonna be during the exact same time as the built to conquer conference. Well the open-air theology. So if you have not attended there for you planned on going to open-air theology and no longer able to go to that conference.
This is the one to go to. Rappaport who was speaking at the open-air theology conference is now speaking at the built to conquer conference in Oklahoma with Caleb Gordon. Come on Caleb. Tell us about this conference.
Why did you why did you name it built to conquer?
Okay, can I just tell you what. What the speakers. It was. Caleb's turn. Andrew. I'm gonna leave shortly. I'm gonna leave shortly. Let you guys talk but. But Caleb. Caleb was like, hey, can you go? Can you come to a conference?
And I was I said, I got another conference. I yeah, I can't be a two-place once within minutes all of a sudden. He's got Gabe on the list like he just replaced me that quick with Gabe and I was like, okay.
I.
Mean I got it. I gotta get a Presbyterian in here kid grief. All right fine. Yeah, but.
Tarion I. When I told him I was free he said we'll make it happen. So I just want for the record Caleb is is great. He wants to make the event the best he can.
We're we're hustling and we're trying to this is our second year to do it. We did the first year in the historic Constantine theater in Pahuska, Oklahoma. We were just catty-corner from the Pioneer woman and It was it was pretty cool in that theater.
I have some friends that that run that theater and they gave us a really great Opportunity to use that for that and we had a about a hundred people or so show up and it was it was a great event and we're just trying to inform now moved it over to Bartlesville and The the good folks at Hope Presbyterian, I'm really good friends with pastor Peter Johnson.
In fact, he's my neighbor. He lives just around the corner from me. He and I go walk a lot together and hang out and he puts on a thing called the Holy Smoke and that's a thing that he does at his house and we go hang out there and It's a great time with Christian brothers and it sounds charismatic.
It sounds cigar ish. It's very cigar ish.
Traeger's Traeger grill that you got going on.
Sometimes he sometimes pulls the smoker out to very nice, but it's a little bit of both we Friday night, we've got several folks coming over to my house and we're gonna come hang out. That's where we're doing this cold plunge thing I don't know.
We're gonna have my wife's my wife's actually behind the scenes with my sister-in-law. They're in doing some planning and prepping for some. An event we're doing tomorrow night and then one the one on the 21st Friday night we're gonna have all the speakers that want to come up and hang out with us and just do a fellowship and and just Try to encourage each other.
Maybe tell us some jokes. I don't know, you know anybody that's funny Andrew.
I'm just funny looking but You can tell where all of our minds are at you you mentioned Holy Smoke. I'm thinking charismatic. Your time's thinking cigars and Braden's thinking food.
You went you had Justin Peters.
At least we're all reformed.
So, yeah, no, it's gonna be a great time. It's a one-day event, but if you come up Friday. If you if you get up there Friday night. Make it up for the weekend and Sunday. Andrew is gonna be preaching at my church on Sunday.
So awesome. Oh, wow.
Yeah, that's awesome. So we're gonna we get and I get Andrew twice. Bring in the fire. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so they can be fun and then.
Yeah, Saturday's just gonna be like drinking from a fire hydrant. So it's gonna be a fantastic. We've got we're gonna have just a great time. We're gonna have a little so this I'll just I'll give you the background.
Why you ask the question? Why built a conquer? Yeah so I pulled a Donald Trump there and I.
Can be the greatest conference you've ever seen. Nobody's ever. I started talking about something we are gonna conquer. You're not gonna see any conquering like we've come.
Let me tell you right now what's gonna happen. Tom is there's gonna be an amazing thing that happens. We're gonna conquer this thing called Conquering quests of conquers and we're gonna do this from the from the from the stage.
Horrible impression of him.
Hands-down. Better than myself though. Let me tell you I could I could give you my best.
East Coast.
Conquer. You guys don't show up. You're gonna go to the coal plunge.
I'll show you conquering. I'll show you what it looks like I'll show you what it is to conquer. That's right. So no, basically this I've never been to fight Laugh feast and the company I work for this shameless plug.
I work for a company called the nine minds and I help do infrastructure project management and IT stuff and I love been doing that for all good July be two years they are connected with the CREC and I got called one day during during work and one of the guys that is one of the directors was like, hey Pastor, would you be interested in using your evangelical skills?
To help further the business. I was like, I'm always game for that like Jesus in business. We can figure that out. He goes we're going to this thing called fight laugh feast. It's gonna be at the ark and I was like, I know exactly what fight laugh feces.
I've heard about it I've always wanted to go to like what you're gonna go and I was like sweet so we went and Plugged our business and I hung out and got to meet a bunch of people and I was like I could do this in Oklahoma.
It is a great kind of love. I've never been I've never I got but I grew up in the church. My dad was a pastor. I grew up going to Conferences and camps and church events and all this kind of stuff my whole life.
I've never been to a conference that that was it was that fun. I was like that was good.
So you actually went to the one Andrew in Fort Worth, right?
Yeah, I wasn't the one in Fort Worth.
That's where Caleb and I caught. Neato didn't even realize he was there and I talked to him for 30 minutes before I realized who.
He was that's cuz he's a sensational at a post mail. No, no.
Beard and and I was talking like my name's Andrews. Okay, Andrew, how you doing? I came over to my little podcast table and we were talking and visited in 20 -30 minutes. My wife is visiting with him we're all just one of my workmates is over there and he's like because the our work is in my minds is in Texas so they were all there and so we're all visiting together and Greg Moore walks by goes.
What's up? We're up a port and I went I'm sorry. Wait a second Andrew Rappaport as in The Andrew Rappaport like you've done stuff with red comfort. You've done stuff. You got he goes yeah, that's me and I was like.
Having the beard was great. No one recognized me. I could I know.
It was a blast bro. I was like and I felt cuz I've just been visiting like, you know, and I looked at my wife. I was like, I I know that. And she walked away and he got when I somebody I was like that was Andrew Rappaport and my wife goes, okay.
Like my literally the only person that my wife would get excited about it. George straight walked in that would be it. Outside of that. She'd just be like who I was like, he's a big deal. He's like he's a big deal.
Braden it'll tell no who Ken Powers is but he's from the from let's dot Church. Great great site if you go want to check Let's dot Church. They they basically take for our ministry and many others take all of our videos Podcasts everything transcribe it make all the video and audios available but you can like search anything and it'll give you it'll bring you right into the media right to that moment where we're talking about something and so it's really neat tool, but I saw Ken at the conference and Ken and I know each other we you know, but he did not recognize me and we're talking for a while.
And.
Caleb walks up it and was telling Greg how he was talking to me. It didn't recognize me and he mentions that and all of a sudden Ken we had like a 20-minute conversation. And he's just being polite, but he had like I know like I'm speaking like I know him.
But he's like clueless on who I am. So he's just doing the thing we all do when that happens and we just play along and all of a sudden would Comes up. He's like, wait a minute.
I walk back. I was like, wait a second.
You're.
Yeah, you'll get over it.
Smart Alec remark you like yeah, eventually you'll get over it. I was like Yeah, I've watched a ton of your videos. Like I like it's the beard. You've completely thrown me off with the beard, bro.
I was trying to look like Tom. Yes, but you have enough.
Okay.
Okay, so so now wait a minute. So built to conquer. What's the theme of the conference.
Strategic.
Ideas and strata strategies and ideas to advance the kingdom and share the gospel in. The places we move and have our being.
Hmm interesting. So did you did you develop the the actual topics for every sermon? That's gonna be preached. No, you let him go.
I'm not like so I found out like through like Ligonier I guess Ligonier like writes basically almost writes your entire talk for you. Like they give you all your like they don't they don't give you just that.
Okay. This is your topic. They'll like we're gonna give you a very Structured thing to just you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna live within this. This is your house and you're gonna live within this time for this little project.
Yeah. Subject almost almost gives you get text notes ideas the whole nine yards. I'm not that detailed I'm like, what do you want to talk about? What what what what what what gets you excited?
Yeah, you know. What's interesting is I saw I saw John Piper and I can't remember what conference with it What that it was but he got up there and said, okay my topic is this and then he started going over exactly What it was he goes, but I don't believe this.
So he actually preached something totally different I Can't remember. I got to find what it was. Anybody who was watching that John Piper thing posted up and we'll pull it up. That's funny, right? Yeah.
Wow.
So no, I I'm just within that wheelhouse. I trust every one of these guys. That's gonna be sharing. They do last year Brandon and and Brett and Chris and and Josh and I mean all these guys. Josh Eaton is a really good friend of mine.
We've in fact, I used to be on staff for a little short season of time at his church and He and I are really good friends and I trust these guys. They wield the word well.
And I just I just let him go. I mean look at some of the guys you got you got Brendan Scalf who Tom? I know, you know him a little bit probably. People think this is is crazy, but I would put him up as one of the top two best preachers alive.
Yeah, it's good guy. He really like peel. He's Rough people are eventually gonna find out about him. He is people are gonna start you know, he's gonna eventually, you know, he'll he'll be a known name.
You know in a decade his preaching is is outstanding. Michael Stanton is there he he he. He is one of the guys at Master's Seminary who works in a doctoral program to train people to Preach so if he's the guy that is I think he I think he's Brandon's mentor if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, he was okay. So if you got a guy who's Training people at a doctorate level, you know breach. Yeah, you know, his preaching is gonna be pretty good.
Yeah, I would definitely put him up there. Matter of fact, I heard him speak last at the Reformation conference that they had that g3 had. Yeah, and I mean his structure was just impeccable. I mean you could just go through and just model sermon.
Really good delivery, you know good stuff.
And then I'm you got the hillbilly. I'm three so I'm going first that way.
Yeah, y 'all remember what I said. Brett. Bag it man. I'll tell you what I mean for a guy who's not been to seminary, but he reads the Puritans just and you could just know he's just spent time with the Lord the first time I met Brett.
I was actually at an abortion mill and he was sharing at the abortion mill and I was just like I Was blown away.
By his wife corrected me. I'm sorry. It was the cessationist conference. Not the reference. Thanks, Deb. You're your lifesaver.
We wouldn't have known.
She would have and she would have told you about it later. I've never.
Lame I just like her already in the fact that she corrects Tom publicly, you know.
My wife was here if she wasn't in there planning these other events right now in our. Yeah. She'd be like telling me that's not. No, that's the.
Yeah, that's not the name of our company, honey.
What are you doing, baby?
Well, you know Caleb Caleb I'm gonna give you a warning if you're ever like in an emergency situation. And you need to to phone a friend. Don't don't phone Tom. Is he a message saying hey, I'm doing evangelism.
I'll call you at 3. I'm still waiting.
No, I said I'll be done. Yeah, and I was waiting for the content to call but I was doing a very good.
Time for him to get on AI to go. Give me some questions for for Caleb.
Did you guys did you guys do any evangelism today. I.
Did not. I Didn't make it out of the house today, but that's cuz I'm sick cuz you're Church, I did make it to church for the men's Bible study. I went right home. But you know Tom, I let me let me do this because you know.
So so that I don't want you to guilt me into the fact that I haven't shared the gospel. So let me share the gospel with you Tom because clearly you need it. Now does it count if I shared it online because there was a guy who told me that I need to be baptized to be Saved and so I kind of explained the gospel.
Yeah, but.
Presbyterians are even saying this kind of stuff now. I mean lately there was a group that we were part of matter of fact that the.
Last.
Apologetics live show. That we did. We had two Presbyterians that believe in baptismal regeneration. Just crazy stuff guys. I don't know I don't know what they're doing.
So but you know a lot of people don't even though they say they're Christians don't know what the gospel is. In fact We just had the president United States put someone in charge of my gosh race Initiative that isn't even a person.
She's in charge of defending Christianity.
Did I hear that she married. Like a member of journey.
Yes.
Somebody posted something about she married a member of journey like don't stop and yeah.
That journey is that a that is true. Is that a Christian band or an or a secular band?
I'm drinking LaCroix Laura. Hold on you guys. It's so good.
You got me on that whole trip when I was over.
It's flavored water. Flavored water.
Journey was a Christian band. No.
You know that one that yeah, don't stop.
I mean if you actually listen to the lyrics that song it's a horrible song.
But Ways open arms, you know, I think I was in eighth grade I had a girlfriend who broke up with me in the eighth grade and we wrote your heart. Oh, yeah. It's your heart and you wouldn't found great Valentine's Day Dance Michelle Pate that was her name and we called her Mickey and we called her Mickey because the song was going around Oh Mickey.
You're so fine. It's the final blow. I might know Mickey that one's that song. Yeah. Yeah, that was the song Didn't ever with me she broke up with me on on Valentine's Day. I was crying like a baby Asked Valentine's Day dance, but it was horrible.
Praise the Lord that you listen you got Debbie. Oh.
Yeah. Well, I want to thank Michelle for at least answering my question because none of you did that. It's a secular group.
Listen, y 'all are rambling on.
Oh.
Is yeah because Tom needs to hear the gospel. Alright, so it's putting all seriousness folks. I mean kidding aside if there's someone listening that you're saying, you know, there's a lot of different people different Christians that Explain different things about what a Christian is.
What the Bible teaches is very simple. Okay. Something that we know every one of us According to God has broken his law. Every single one of us is a criminal in his sight. We broke his law. That we are all sinners.
Yes, and that the wages of sin is death and that death is eternal. It is it is forever without Christ so to be to Live your life and it doesn't matter how wealthy you are how much you have it on earth.
Doesn't matter if you have broken God's law. The punishment for that the wages of that is Eternity. You have to pay it forever in a place called hall. You don't get out and so many people think they could do good works do good deeds earn their way out of heaven.
But I want you to think about this if God himself had to become a man Jesus Christ to die on a cross and You think your good works are gonna earn you anything. What does that do to the work that Christ did it diminishes it?
Light of it. Yeah, I mean you really want to stand before God and say the God who came to earth as a man and died on the cross and you're gonna go. But look at what I did. I walked this old lady across the street.
I went to church.
So basically Andrew you're saying that if God wouldn't spare his own son. Do we really think that he's gonna spare any one of us?
That's exactly right. Yeah, and so the fact is the only way to get right with God is Through what Jesus Christ did on the cross is not trusting self on our pride or what we call good works. But trusting what Jesus Christ and he alone did on the cross.
Amen. That's right. Amen. Now he can't guilt me because I just shared the gospel of 53 people.
I think that kind of really goes back. There are so many people that claim the title of Christian. Those that have a hard time. It's more than just being able to Put these things together in a sentence that's comprehensible for some people.
There's some people out there that claim to be Christian and they truly do not know the gospel. Yeah, and are the the 1689 confession chapter 1 and the Holy Scriptures paragraph 7 or 8. It says that the things of the faith that are essential for unto Salvation are so clearly laid out and this is not ignoring the inward illumination of the Holy Spirit that comes about in verse paragraph 6 regeneration.
But these things are so clear that you should be able to understand them and be able to talk about them in a manner that Is understandable and concise. And so if somebody is titling themselves as a Christian They cannot communicate that or they cannot profess that.
Well, how they even called upon the name of the Lord to be saved.
Yeah, well Brennan, you know, I was talking with a pastor out in Arizona about you actually earlier today and We were talking about how you know when you and I first met because it's really funny. He's talking to me about you not realizing that you and I've gone back a long time.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know who that was. I do.
But the thing is is that you know. We're discussing the fact that when we first met you you weren't saved all that long. It was it was up in, Idaho. You still had a baby that was in a baby carriage, you know, you were.
Your oldest was I.
Just months boy. When we first met I didn't have any kids quite yet. I think you might be thinking. Are you thinking time? Yeah. Temple open first the first time we met. Listen, I don't want to go too far down this rabbit trail, but the first time we met was at a gun range in, Idaho.
Oh, what about that?
You and I know the gun range. No, no. Oh, okay. No Andrew. Yeah.
Anyway, I.
Hit. I ran into you another time and then I ran into another time. I was like, hey, you remember that time we shot guns together and you're like no brain. I've never gone and done that before. You're lying.
Talking about I was there. So anyway, yeah, so we've met a few times before we met.
I remember at the The temple opening. Okay, and you had your your wife was there. Yep.
And you had I thought it your baby. If they're oldest was that the Meridian temple opening that I didn't hurt him.
But but. No, no, that's the whole thing that where I was going with it is. You know Braden when before you got saved. You would have thought you were Christian. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you would have you would have thought that you had the true gospel message.
Yeah, and and you know folks that don't know Braden's history, right? You you're a Mormon that you you're convinced that you were going to convince your now wife. To be a Mormon and that backfired on you big-time.
Get married because you got saved that's right.
So on that note, let me ask you this Andrew. So and I have status and brought this up talking about people who think that they're Christians. I mean, this is a group Catholics and ether Eastern Orthodox Christians.
Quote-unquote would believe in the Trinity. They would believe in the God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit. So they would actually have Jesus right in this. What is the difference? Why would you say that?
This may not be true. Christianity with what they hold.
Well, there's three things that in the back of my book on what do they believe I put a little quick chapter of the uniqueness Christianity. Okay, what sets Christianity apart from every other man-made religion?
I think all the others are man-made. So ether an orthodoxy and Catholic. I think they're man-made. I think what you have today in Judaism rabbinic Judaism is man-made. You know, it's not the same thing as the Judaism of the Bible.
And so there's there's one very key area that sets it apart. Okay. Um, but first let me talk about one thing that makes Christian unique every man-made religion is Going to be based upon a moral system.
It's do's and don'ts. No Christianity is based on a person. Nope. It's really look I mean Joseph Smith. You could have Mormonism without him. Because the teachings of actually the Mormonism we have today didn't actually come from Joseph Smith.
It came from bring him young. Yeah, right, so, you know, you didn't. You didn't need Muhammad for Islam. You did but you cannot have Christianity without Jesus Christ. Why? Because he who Jesus is he is truly God and truly man in in his Divinity, he's eternal so he could pay an eternal fine in his humanity.
He never sinning. He could be a perfect sacrifice for us a substitute for us. So the first thing is the uniqueness of the person of Jesus Christ the thing that makes it unique and what defines the difference of man-made and Divine religion is who does the work right every man?
You add something to some sort of works whether it's your baptism.
Something.
But in every man-made religion, there is some element of human effort in Christianity. Christ did all the work and we can't do anything. Right, and and that's why those others are moral systems because they're just do's and don'ts because that's all they got is the rules.
All right. Here's something that people don't think about though. Do you know that Christianity is the only religion that can have a God that is both just and merciful? Yeah. Because justice and mercy are mutually exclusive.
Islam will say Allah most merciful. Mm-hmm, and then you ask him. Well, is he just and they'll say yes. Okay. So how how come he just Based on something he doesn't share with us. He just lets people into heaven when we all deserve hell, right?
So that's a lot of a lot of the things when I go out on the streets. Matter of fact a lot of people today would say that he God is just a loving God and my God wouldn't condemn me. He's just gonna as if God is going to dismiss my sin.
He's gonna be able to reason with him and he's just gonna look the other way and not even count it. But like you had said, he's a just God. Just God must punish sin. And neither I'm gonna pay the penalty for my sin or Jesus did it on the cross as a substitute for me.
Yeah, and everything and so but but and I and I think you were you were going to the right direction. I interrupted you Andrew. I'm sorry on the with Catholicism. They do believe that Jesus died on the cross.
What what is it. And I'm thinking they don't believe that that was sufficient. Yeah, yeah, see. What they both have is something they add to What Christ did on cross in in Catholicism it is faith plus works.
Mmm, and and then you've also got the ability they pray to Mary they bring to the Pope.
Well, those things would help. So let me give you a background on I got it.
So I just there's an I had a neighbor not that lived. He was Roman Catholic and Our our sort of kind of thing that connected us. Was he had a Wyoming bumper sticker and that's where I'm from and I just have I was just a happy you from Wyoming Is now but I love why.
I was like, oh, I was born there. He's like, oh man, I tell me let's talk about it. We started talking and we come to find out and I'm a pastor.
Gave him some stuff to watch and so read we talked about the gospel. He's like, I'm gonna start picking your brain. I said, that's awesome. I love when you're right so we started going through this and this has been years of a relationship and then Too flat not this last Thanksgiving, but Thanksgiving before.
He has a barbecue business and he catered our Thanksgiving our churches Thanksgiving Meal every year for the last couple years and We met at a local coffee shop to have a conversation about the meal prep all the stuff and he looks at me.
We're sitting there. He's got it brought a big thick. I Didn't know what it was at the time. It was a Bible, but he brings this big thick Bible and a notebook and we're and I'm he's got his notebook. We're talking meat and Barbecue sauce and we're talking chicken and turkey and all this other stuff.
He goes, can we stop for a minute? I said, yeah, man, he goes. I Have just been having a conversation with you and Going into the bathroom. What do we happen? What's happening right now?
He's out of control. Caleb, I'm sorry, it's fine right now, you know what I'm. We're getting that keep going.
So so we're sitting there and he's having that we're Talking turkey and we're talking all this stuff and he literally I didn't do that. I don't know what happened. I didn't touch anything. I did. Graham.
Hi guys. Hi everybody. So we're in the middle of this thing because I have. I've got some questions because you and I have had many conversations over the last several years. He goes. There's just something different about you and your approach and I am I.
I don't Know what it is, but I want what you have. And I just was like, can I be really honest with you? And he said sure he goes. I Don't believe you're born again. I don't believe you're a Christian.
And he goes and I had all of the things lined out as. To why I was good because I was expecting him to go. Oh, yeah. That's what I'm expecting. So I've got in my mind that I was because I've asked for permission.
Permission. Can I be honest and I said, I don't believe you're born again. He just goes. Yeah, I don't think I am either.
Hmm. I was like he's honest with himself. Oh.
Sweet. And so we walked through this and it talked about Sin and the need for repentance and what Christ did on the cross. He didn't know. Basically, you know, he did all the heavy lifting and we walked through what the gospel is and.
I and I said, so basically here's the bottom line. You need to repent of your sins. This is where it has to start and first John 1 9 if you confess your sins He Jesus is faithful and just to forgive you and to cleanse you from all of your unrighteousness.
And he was like, can I do that right now? I was like.
100 And so I just grabbed his hand. I said listen, this is my rules that I don't lead anybody in prayer. And and this right comfort told me this personally he said it would be like if I.
Did something horrible to my wife? Like just offended her immensely and I was just yeah, I just broke my wife's heart.
Hmm, and I I.
Andrew comes to the house and Andrew's like listen, I'm gonna help you Caleb. Okay, great. Thanks Andrew. Andrew comes. He great like what my wife's kicked me out of the house. It's just and so he comes to the door.
This is what you gotta do. You got to say this. Just repeat after me, honey. I'm sorry, honey. I'm sorry. I'll never do it again. I'll never.
And I'll never do it again I.
Really want you to take me back. I.
Really want you to take me back. She's gonna love this won't she?
Congratulations welcome. You've just now reconciled with your wife. Yeah.
So prayer the rate rate that's so raised like.
Would your wife believe that apology. And I was like, oh heck no. He goes neither does God and so my rule has been listen. I'm not gonna lead you in a prayer. I said, what do you want God to do in your life?
He's like and I'm and I'm just waiting. I wait he goes man I'm an absolute wretch and I do need to be forgiven of my sins and I want God to save me. I was like Tell him yeah, I just let him go. Yeah, and and like, you know, I always I like to say this pray what you got.
Yeah, what do you want God to do in your life?
If I lead you in a prayer like I can I can help point you in the right direction. If you don't know what to say, I can give you some pointers. But you need to apologize to the Lord for what you did. What have you done?
You've broken his law. You've absolutely transgressed his law and you deserve his wrath. You deserve his is unmitigated unbridled wrath. Yeah, but here's the beautiful news. That's the bad news as my dad used to say No one's gonna get saved until they understand that they need to be saved.
You got to understand you need to be saved number one. And then just apologize ask God to forgive you and first John 1 9. I love that you're staying outside the bathroom. That's.
Great go sit down.
If.
You confess your sins. This like this is the truth. If you confess your sins and listen, you're not confessing them to me. I can't save you. I have zero. Oh, listen. I can't I don't even most of them.
I can't keep my phone straight. I don't even know where my phone is. Most of the time. I can't save my phone much less your soul. You confess your sins to the Lord Jesus Christ. You repent of your sins and ask Jesus to forgive you.
No, man can save you. No Pope can save you.
Period.
Jesus and Jesus alone. He is the one who does all the heavy lifting. I do nothing. The only thing that I did is I contributed the sin that made it necessary for my salvation to take place.
I think that's the. The issue is that when we when we come to Christ empty we come to Christ bringing nothing but our sin. Nothing to offer. No contribution at all and that's and I think that's in it when God changes a person's heart breaks you over your sin.
It's a conviction that you cannot you cannot just resist. No, we're reformers. We believe in and You know, we believe in tulip. Total depravity. Unconditional election. Limited atonement. Irresistible grace.
Come on if God has made you alive. You're gonna be broken over your sins. I'm gonna be convicted over your sin. Yes, so I don't need to lead anybody into that. No, this is something that God has done in my life.
Where does that come from it? Yes.
17 faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. We're saved by grace through faith. And so that was like that was my I grew up a pastor. Yeah, I got so I I thought I mean I went to camp. I said the prayer walk the aisles I did all the things you're supposed to do as a kid going to camp and do all those things.
And I remember my dad preaching a sermon and he was preaching over whitewashed tombs and Pharisees. Yeah, and how Jesus looks at the Pharisees says listen, you're a whitewashed tomb you beautiful on the outside you look Crafted and put together on the outside but inside you're full of dead men's bones and I remember sitting in the back Left corner of the Baptist Church that my dad pastored and I was like, oh shoot.
That's Me that's me. Yeah, like that's me and my dad didn't ever really give invitations. Which is just like this. I believe this is once again God doing what God does. Yeah, for some reason my dad said I don't normally do this guys but today I feel compelled to give a gospel invitation if you're here and you want to repent of your sins you want to trust the gospel.
I was like Like it's literally I felt like something was pulling me. And so I literally walked down the aisle and thank God my dad wasn't. His identity wasn't wrapped around the idea. Oh my kids a Christian.
Sure He walked down grabbed my hand. He goes. What's up, son? I said dad. I'm not a Christian. I'm not saved. He goes. Well, let's get that. Let's get it handled, bro. Yeah, and we went to the mat together and men prayed and and once pray what you got son.
Yeah, what do you want God to do? Save me. I got my set. I can't believe my it was it was like the light bulb went off. I was like, it's my sin not of the world my sin is what put Christ in the cross my lying my cheating my lusting my vile tongue my bitter spirit all the the Grossness that is in me.
Like I posted something like this the other night. I said I said I Sometimes I think about old Caleb. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, the vileness the wickedness. That Jesus awoke me to that reality gentlemen that Jesus awoke me like this is the funny thing that I people freak out. Cuz what's the one thing that every freaks out about Calvinism?
What's the one one?
What's which it which which out of the tulip? Which one is it? Well, but probably limited atonement mostly. Yeah.
They're like, wait a minute. Jesus didn't die for everybody. Oh my gosh, and so they freak out right. Everybody loses their mind. There's that guy that comes on Andrew's show on Thursday nights. He's debated him before it freaks out.
Free will. Free will. Instead of freaking out number one. Realize that God awoke you to the reality of your sin.
This should be like a warm blanket that wraps around you. And you shouldn't. And he didn't have to he didn't have to yeah.
So that's number one. Number two. Rather than sitting around going. Well, it's not fair. Shut up and go sit down and talk to somebody about the Lord Jesus Christ. Guess what Jesus's answer to your neighborhood is you?
Go go sit down have a conversation. It might be God's gonna use you to be the missionary that awakens somebody to the reality of their sin and that they need to Repent of their sins. Yeah.
It's an interesting that you say that, you know. We all know as reformers that we didn't contribute anything to our salvation our regeneration. Yeah, but we can contribute to To in evangelism in the salvation of others.
Braden. What would you say man? When you when you have somebody that's convinced of Sinner prayer that they they prayed a prayer one time and everything. What are questions that you would ask them to get them to realize?
That you know what? Maybe maybe maybe maybe God hasn't done that work in my heart that you're you're more convinced. What do you do to tell a person that's convinced because they said that prayer. What are evidences.
Andrew just got convicted and left.
Now he just jumped off it looks like I think it kind of goes back to this question that you originally asked and I don't Think we've even really sufficiently answered it. So There's there's a lot of different identities and titles that we can take in this world.
Christian is one of those things. And so just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you're actually born again come on saved by Christ yes, and so While I wish that was the case that when somebody said I'm a Christian They didn't understood what they were implying when they said that we we live in a day of cultural Christianity that has lost that That ability to understand what that title means, but nonetheless To be an actual Christian to be born again means that you will hold to the essentials of Christianity.
So Johnny unless you believe I am you shall die in your sins. You cannot be a Christian and not believe that Jesus is that I am that so that's an exclusive statement. That's an essential of the faith.
You cannot but yep, you cannot you cannot Deny the virgin birth you you must actually be born again. That is something that unless or else you will not enter into the kingdom of God. These are essentials to the Christian faith.
And so I think Going back to somebody that said the sinner's prayer that that's all great and fine. You could have said whatever you wanted you could have asked Buddha you could have asked to anybody.
If you don't have an actual heart change if you are denying the essentials of the Christian. You are not you're just not a Christian period and so going back I think to that original question is can a can a Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox?
Be Christian or can they be Christian? Possibly maybe if they're if they're if they're holding to the essentials of the Christian faith. So are they saying that they're saved by grace alone? Are they saying it's grace plus their works because if it's grace plus they're denying an essential You're not a Christian you're not and that's what the whole point of Romans for like we you are not Justified by your works, but through faith.
Here's what I'll say is that I think in that.
People he asked if Roman Catholics and he's from I think if you are genuinely believing. Which that's. I don't ask people if they're Christian anymore. I used to but I asked the question have you been bought with the blood?
Are you born again because that that throws people completely off? They're like, right? What's this born-again stuff? Yeah, let's go to John chapter 3. Yeah, but so. If you are a genuine born-again believer in the Catholic Church, I believe you will not stay there.
I hear you absolutely there if you're a genuine born-again believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. You can't stay there because there's too many inconsistencies. There's too many false ideologies. There's too many false Constructs within the Catholic Church.
Religions a lot of false religions that there there can there can be this this untangling of Falsehood to truth and it might take somebody a second to realize. Wait Did that priest just say this and I'm reading this right?
That's one of the great blessings.
A moment.
Yeah today we all have access to the Word of God typically for the most part, especially in the United States. We all have access praise the Lord for that. Yes, and so We can now fact-check. Yeah, the priest stands up and says yes.
Hey, you're saved by these indulgences or hey come confess your sins to the priest in order to receive reconciliate. That's yeah.
I like that brain because you know I was thinking that if a priest if I was in the in the Catholic Church And I was saying I'm trusting for Jesus Christ for my salvation. He says okay, and you must take the sacraments and you must do this.
And you must do this and he's adding all these things. Where's that in the blue? Christ's work on the cross. Yeah, it was him in his act of obedience Coming into the world to live the life that I cannot live fulfilling the law Laying down his life in my place.
This is something that I could not do and the scriptures Says like your point Braden that we have access into this grace in which we stand through Faith, it's through faith alone in Christ alone. We add anything to that and we're we're believing in another gospel.
So that's back to the next question.
That's not clear.
And it's a baptismal regeneration. Whether a spoonful or a lake full you are not saved by the water. The water cannot make you a Christian. Absolutely, right. It is it. You are saved by great visions.
289 is I mean it is insanely clear. You're saved by grace through faith alone alone when it says alone. That's what it means. You're saved by grace through faith. That's it. If you add water to it if people don't know you got to be baptized be saved too.
That's part of it. I'm like, no, that's that. That is adding to that is. That is grace plus something else. If it's grace plus anything it is not gospel.
Salvation period if you I mean you you you can't so grace is The unmerited favor that's in definition. Right. So if if grace to be crazed means it has to have no other things with God's riches It's a grace plus works.
You have eliminated Unmerited favor, it's no longer there. It's not other words. You're doing what Romans for Romans? Now to the one who works his wages are not counted as a gift but as what is due. Yes, if you're saying it's baptismal regeneration or that it's bad You're saved by something that you have done other than the work of Christ alone.
Come on. It's yeah, you are working a wage. That's what it is. And.
By definition, that's not grace. By definition, that's not great.
That's me back to this idea of every other religion. You've got to do something to appease your God in order to keep him at you. And you know. Keep him. God will never be put in your debt. The God of the Bible will never be put into a human beings debt.
Think about think about the kind of God that we would serve. What would it say about my God? If I thought or somebody's God that as they define them. If I thought that in some way I Could bribe God with my righteousness.
That I could bribe God with my giving to be able to access to say Oh, wow glory that the creator of the world is gonna look down upon his creation who has rebelled against them. Who is an enemy against him who?
Spits in his face by doing what they want to do loving their own sin. And then in some way I'm gonna be able to do something to count my own self righteous before him. Come on. It's impossible. It is absolutely impossible.
I cannot do anything anything to earn his earn his favor. It's only by so, you know, a lot of people say well, you know, we're not saved by works. Well, that is true, but we are saved by someone else's works.
Come on. That is Christ. Yes, that is Christ in his active obedience. He accomplished everything that we are that we were to live we were to be loved that perfect life. We can't live it. He did he was tempted in every way as we are yet without sin perfectly.
He accomplished all the heavy lifting. Yes, absolutely all the heavy lifting and I I didn't I do. I can't lift.
Yeah, do you even live bro? No, I don't do that. That's right. So yeah, a hundred percent man I I think that there are so many people in the world today that that have this Ideology that they think they're believers.
I mean if I walk where I'm in Oklahoma and if I walk down my street and I knocked on my door or knock on People's doors. I said you are you a Christian they'd be. Oh, of course. I am. Well, I always want to know.
What are you doing? What's what's happening in your life right now? That would identify you as an absolute Christian, what are you doing? Most of them will be like I. Sometimes go to church, okay. That's great.
That's not I'm not upset with that. What what what identifying Mars could the FBI figure out that you're a believer?
Mmm, could you. That's a good question Caleb. One of my pastors I think it was over a reformer actually asked this question. If they're Asking somebody this question that if if you were on trial. For being a Christian where there be enough evidence to convict you.
To Christ.
The FBI's tapping your phone. Do you did they see what do they see on your social media page? What do they see in your search history? What do they see? Do you believe you you looking at? What are you looking at?
What are you following? What are you doing? Well, I.
Don't know. Yeah, you know. And I I will also say this. Because Abraham is given to us as an example often in Scripture as a person that was accounted with righteousness through faith. That's right. Shane said something.
I got it right here immediately. Our minds will say well. What about well the thief on the cross and yeah. They're gonna say well that this is dada dada dada and they give. No, let's even just talk. We can talk about the thief on the cross.
That's great. But let's talk about Abraham. Abraham in Galatians chapter 3 verse 6. Just as Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. Yeah, and it says in the scripture foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith preached the gospel.
Beforehand to Abraham. Yeah saying in you shall all the nations be blessed. Abraham was saved through faith in the gospel. Yes, like that's that was before baptism even existed and Paul is making the argument that were justified the exact same.
Frickin way, that's right. And and and by the way, Abraham was received the sign. Received the sign after after after after he had declared right. Romans 4 makes that argument was.
Accredited with righteousness before after he was circumcised. Well, if it was after then he would have something to boast of. But no it was before. Absolutely. He was circumcised.
And then and then yeah, everybody likes to throw this one in there as well. The thief on the cross that brother wouldn't there wouldn't he wouldn't baptized right and listen.
Everybody gives that a hard time. But guess what? I think that's a great example. It's a great exam. It is.
Yeah, it really is. I love and I love the.
Golly we got Scottish guy. Oh my gosh. I just went blank. I'll stir bag. Yeah.
To me said so.
Why are you here. The guy on the middle cross said I could come.
Great a thought process. Cuz you met. Cuz he. He doesn't know a darn thing about the Bible doesn't know. Anything doesn't know anything about Jesus. Didn't know. He just knows he's like he just knows he's like.
Would you remember me. He has enough faith. A mustard seed of faith in this moment. Would you just remember me in your kingdom? He's like I got you. You'll be there today. Yeah, and he wakes up and could you imagine he'd be like, oh, could you imagine what he saw?
I'm just like.
What is happening?
Like that moment where he like I have this mindset where I think about these kind of things all the time like.
You know.
So what he thought. Let me ask. Answer. Shane and Brayden can help me out here, too. But Shane asked the question so that the people believe that before bathroom that that circumcision were the things that saved them.
So no in the in the Old Covenant, you have to remember in Abraham covenant in the in the Mosaic Covenant There were conditions and being on those covenants so that those covenants according to reform Baptist.
We would hold that all the covenants before the New Covenant were coming in the works. Why were they works because there were conditions placed on those covenants? So one of the things that Abraham had to do in all his his seed after him.
In order to remain in that covenant, they had to be circumcised. They had to be circumcised and if they weren't circumcised they were placed outside the camp. There was conditions. Yes, there was a condition placed on that covenant they could remain in that covenant.
But then they'd had to do something. They had to go get circumcised to be able to go in that brain go to Galatians 5 real quick.
And that and what that circumcision meant and what they understood that we find reading Reading through the lens of the New Testament through the New Covenant through the lens of Christ. He's gonna explain what that meant.
Reading it. I think it's a 5 -2.
5 -2. Yeah. You know, I as you're as you're gone there. I think I think what Shane's asking and he said it right here. Not you guys. Oh, yeah saying is do the people who believe in baptismal regeneration do they believe also believe in in circumcision all?
Regeneration.
Mike if I don't think so I think that they actually believe that that that they're holding to that water. Baptism actually is the process in which Along with the Holy Spirit makes a person. I think that's what Shane is saying.
Is before before baptism was a thing in the New Testament. Oh People saved in the Old Testament, right? But nonetheless, let me read Galatians 5 2 because I think this is perfect.
Yeah, 5 2. I believe so.
Look I Paul say to you that if you accept circumcision Christ will be of no advantage to you. Now I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he's obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ.
You who would be justified by the law you have fallen away from.
Grace, right? So anybody who was circumcised and sorry if I misunderstood your question. So hopefully it didn't go too far off. But anybody who was circumcised. Paul says that that person really had to keep it all.
He had to continue to keep it all. So based on that it would be a covenant of works. So Yeah. So anybody who received what does this say here? Oh, thank you, brother. I really appreciate it. Praise God.
That is a beautiful verse to demonstrate that if you were wanting to so first of all Anything in the Old Testament that you see that is conditional upon Somebody's actions whether those those things are by definition again We go back to what is the definition of grace and it is unmerited favor those those covenants by definition Cannot be a re-administration of a covenant of grace.
That's right.
They have to be even if you see examples of grace. Even if you see God being kind because anytime God interacts with his creation, it's graceful. It's merciful. It's absolutely it's a demonstration of his loving kindness in these things.
But it doesn't mean that by definition that the nature of these covenants therefore our grace. Because it still is obligating of the create the creatures within that covenant to work. And so these covenants in the Old Testament.
I Think that that's a beautiful example, brother. I love how you how you do that if you if you Believe that you are in this covenant that you have to do things in order to obtain or keep or to maintain.
Especially in this text in the days of the Judaizers Paul saying you're you're not free in Christ. Then you're actually under this yoke of bondage. Yeah, which demonstrates that no one was saved through the covenant of works in the Old Testament.
You could be saved while living in it. But it was on the merit and and faith of what the promise seed would do on your behalf in the future.
Well.
And so that's go back that goes back to Galatians 3 that the gospel was preached beforehand to Abraham and It's John chapter 8 before Abraham was I am he was glad to see my day. Abraham saw Christ there in Genesis 15 a place faith in the promise and he trusted God your.
Your will be done. And this is going to come about. And so that that's exactly what the Christian does to Days, we look back to the cross and we say the seed has indeed done this on my behalf. And so the covenant of grace the reason why it's superior.
There's a multitude of reasons but the covenant of grace that's that's mentioned in Jeremiah 31. That's then repeated and quoted for us in Hebrews 8 Romans 11 Christ before he's crucified at the the night of the Passover at the when he's when he's instituting the the bread and the wine.
Those are. It's a demonstration of Something that is not ever repeated in the old covenants. And that is a forgiveness of sins. Right that is only found in the covenant of grace aka on Mary covenant. Yeah, new covenant.
What Christ has mediated. And so Christ fulfills his old covenant of works. I mean mediate something better. Yeah, I something that you and I want to actually be a part of. Yeah. Shane.
So, yeah, I I think that Owen was going that direction for sure as well. I think that if he would live longer it would have developed a little bit longer and I think you see it Already in his covenant theology because he did not hold the classic covenantal ism as you probably already know and so and if you would there's a lot of even Baptist today that would still hold to classic covenantal ism and See the covenant of grace and their different administrations all the way through going all the way through the which is the new covenant.
But if you if you do hold to that you do need to be baptizing your babies because you're being inconsistent. So what's 1689 federalism does as it shows you it shows a distinction between all these covenants of works?
I don't know. Braden still has that graphic a long time ago though of the core. And and give him a minute here and what it is is it shows that every single covenant covenant works all the way from the time of Adam to the Abrahamic Covenant to the Mosaic Covenant to the Aranic Covenant to Davidic Covenant all the way all those things were Subservient to the new covenant and in types and shadows as God revealed his plan of redemption all the way through it.
John Owen, yes, I did. I meant John Owen Shane. All the way pointing to the new covenant of grace. And so but yeah.
And I I think it's another thing that's really important to remember too is if If somebody thinks that somebody was saved through The obedience to a covenant found in the Old Testament aka a covenant of works You have to then submit that they were saved under the mediation of that covenant head.
Right, which that would be other than Christ Jesus himself. No, and we know man think about that for a moment. Just think about what you're what the logical conclusion of that is. Yeah, I was saved because of Moses.
Sound right to anybody sounds ridiculous. Yeah radical. Yeah, there's only one mediator and who's the mediator? Who's who's who's the name by which name everybody is gonna be saved Christ Jesus, right?
Amen.
Well, let me see if I can find this. Well, I think.
We have to ask I was I like to ask the question Why do we have baptism? Like what is the purpose of baptism and we have to understand that that it is a picture and Type of the death burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
That's the reason I believe that Immersion is the only proper way to administer Baptism because it is a picture and and here's a great analogy My dad used because people say oh, it's not that big of a deal.
You could you know, it's sprinkle them. And that's it's way more convenient. What was it convenient for Christ to go to the cross number one? Secondly. Secondly if you if you change the method you destroy the meaning and the method is death Burial and resurrection and people so let me I got this.
Hold on. I want to show you I got a new picture of my wife. Just I mean just the other day on my phone let me let me pull it up here really quick and it's just I mean it is a fabulous picture and.
That's not your wife.
Well any old picture will do.
That is a good analogy right there.
Came from my dad. Yeah, so my dad's gone on to glory but that was my father and the first time he ever did that he pulled a picture of a donkey out and gave it to A little 80 something year old woman in the church and she smacked that picture.
She goes that is not Cheney. That is offensive and she goes and he goes exactly the that's my point you Change my method you destroy the meaning and any old picture will not do. And if it's Satan could destroy one.
Message, what would that message be the death burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ? I mean when you're sprinkling your you when you're sprinkling your babies when you're pouring it over you were Destroying the meaning of what Christ did.
Christ died and he was baptized. So he was placed into.
Immersed immersed.
And I'm out I make we've got time. I'll pull up because I do. I do a sermon on this every time I do a baptism. There's there's a composite of scriptures that talks about. It takes water. It takes much water.
The scripture says much water. It takes a going down into the water and it takes it coming back out up out up out of the water. Mm-hmm. And so there is a composite of scriptures that teaches immersion.
Yeah period. Yes, and it is there is not a there's no such thing as sprinkling. Sprinkling was invented by the Catholic Church out of convenience On the field of of the Crusades because they believe that you had to be baptized by their guy to get into heaven.
So they're out there. They couldn't lug a tank around so they had to get through sprinkling. The guys before they died did the last rites all the stuff. This was invented by the Catholic Church. Baptism was immersion because it was a picture was a picture in type of that is what baptism is it is a picture of the death.
Burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. I always take one of our young bucks. Well, this is the closest I get to Infant baptism is I'll take one of the small guys because they're littler and I'll set them up on a pew and I'll say everybody In the room imagine with me really quick that that that one of our guy right here is in the water.
He's chest-deep. Look at the picture he's death. He's buried with Christ. Raised the newness of life death burial resurrection and so sure when you change the meaning you destroy or you when you change the method you destroy the meaning and.
Any old picture will not do.
So.
Something that was just said here. And just to clarify good good point, yes sprinkling is taught in the Old Testament, but that was a ceremonial cleansing.
For the priests and understand it was that was a washing covenant. Yeah. Yeah, that was a washing and not to mention the fact like Caleb pointed out to Baptizo means immerse that that that's what it means anytime we read baptized read immerse.
Substitute it.
I've jumped over to a another page here to grab my notes for that sermon because I think it's When you when people begin to see this I just take it for granted that I had a dad. It was just epic when it came.
To.
Understanding the scriptures and teaching it. Well, and I just I just I'm thankful to the Lord for that. So mark chapter 1 verse 8 Talks about that. You need water. You have to have water. John chapter 3 verse 23 says he baptizes you with because the water was Plentiful or there was some translation to say there was much water.
Acts chapter 8 verse 38 says that they went down into the water. Yeah, and then Rome you got Romans 6 3 through 5 talking about being buried with Christ. Yeah, then acts 8 39 they came and mark 1 10. They came up out of the water.
So if they're down in the water Logic will tell you that they're gonna come back up out of the water. How did they why did they come up out of the water because they were down in it? They were in it. So these illustrations are all throughout the text that it takes water.
It takes much water. It's right and this is it's. Listen, we do not have a faith of convenience. We have a faith of conviction and we do not baptize at a convenience. I it just gets under my skin when I hear people.
So what's more convenient to sprinkle? Of course, it's more convenient you goofball. Yeah, you know what? That's not what Christianity is about. It's convenience. The one thing that we're about is conviction.
What's the convey you hold conviction to the Word of God, or do you have a Convenience because why I don't want to get my hair wet. I don't.
Come on.
Christ I would one thing I wanted to mention here and I know Braden You'd be really good at answering this question a lot of people will talk about and we would hold to it too Braden and I would. I'm not sure Caleb, but we would also hold that baptism is a means of grace.
But when we say means of grace, we're not talking salvific. Yeah, tell tell explain to them in the 1689 when it talks about baptism being a means of grace. What does that explain?
Yeah, there's several means of grace things that are.
Are.
Ways that we can grow in the Lord. And so sitting under the preaching of God's Word we grow in the Lord. It's a means of grace. When we're in fellowship with fellow believers and not forsaking the gathering we grow in our faith in the Lord.
It's a means of grace.
Just sanctification not.
Word sanctification, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, because I think that a lot of people would put well in the in another camp of people would be pushing back. What about. It's a means of grace and that's why a lot of people wouldn't say. Well at baptism the sacrament of baptism would would be the very means of grace.
That's the means.
Justified I would definitely say that it's more than just a memorial to it's it's. It's it's something where you are putting on Christ is what Romans 6 says you're you're making a public.
That's going on there. Yeah, this is what. Not only that not only for the person who's being baptized, but I want it I also the means of grace for the people who are witnessing it. I think about it when you're preaching a sermon without more.
It's a picture of the gospel. How is not the gospel not only a means of grace to justify you? But also a means means of grace to sanctify you and to keep you and back. It is encouraging.
This is the reason why if if Satan could destroy one message What would be the message that Satan would destroy it would be a death burial and that listen that is the gospel. That's right. When you ask people.
Well, what is the gospel? It's in the Bible. Of course, it's in the Bible. Silly. But what is the gospel you have to answer that question? What is it? Burial and resurrection. For for those that would believe yes.
That's that's it that is that is the gospel the death of Christ the burial of Christ the resurrection of Christ.
I do I do want to touch on this real quick though, too. So something with this. The the Reformed Baptist Baptists that are not Reformed Baptists are doing this by default because they're choosing to baptize someone after belief.
But the Reformed Baptist has a has a particular Continuity that is much clearer than the the Pato Baptist of the Covenants. So in the Old Testament Somebody was first born into the Covenant or purchased as a slave into the Covenant.
You can go read about this in Genesis chapter 15, right? You would you or Genesis 17 one of those two chapters that outlines this but regardless You were born into the Covenant or purchased as a slave and After those things you receive the sign of circumcision.
You receive the sign of circumcision sign always came after entrance and so the Covenant of Grace. You don't enter into through ethnic. Ethnical birth. That's what Jesus is talking about in John 3 when he's looking at Nicodemus a Pharisee Who is of the Abrahamic Covenant and that is their chief of all other things as I am a child of Abraham Ethnicity, right and Jesus looking at that man in the eye in the night.
He says you must be born again. Right in order to enter into the kingdom of God. So so you look at this and you see the the language of Paul and the New Testament authors. Talking about this new birth and you're purchased by the blood of Christ.
So you look back at that Genesis example of coming into that that that that Covenant was birth. We're purchased as a slave we as believers in the New Testament believers in Christ. We are born again and purchased by the blood.
You can see that language being talked about right there. And slaves and yep slaves. Absolutely. Yeah, we come into entrance into the Covenant. First moment and then we receive the sign. And that is the continuity between all the Covenants is how they funk how they function in that sense and how they how they.
You just see the sign after the entrance. So you're saying The crate the cradle Baptist. Let me say this real fast the cradle Baptist. What they are doing is there's demonstrating what was seen in the Old Testament the pato Baptist.
It would be like saying we should actually have circumcised slaves before we purchase them. We should have actually circumcised the child while in the womb before they were born. Amen.
Ridiculous, that's right. Yeah, that's really interesting. You know I've even heard a Presbyterian talk about the Covenant of marriage and they would take that ring that you have here and see now this is the sign of the Covenant of marriage, but when do you receive the sign of Even the Covenant of marriage.
When do I put this ring on. After I'm married. After this. After the sign always is. After it it is always after.
Engaged and they have the ring on first there and Should they start? Stuff let me let me just pause here real fast and say if you have not already gone. We have 67 viewers right now. It's a great blessing for you to.
Thank you so much for watching. We would love it if you joined us to on you our YouTube channel open-air theology. Go check us out on our ex account as well open-air theology on there as well. And this was the graphic that Tom was talking about earlier.
I'm not zoom in on it right now because I'm on a different platform than my I'm a computer where I could do that. But this is just laying out the different covenants of the Old Testament. Comparing it to what Christ has done.
And is the mediator of the new covenant or the of the covenant of grace? Yeah, and so you can just see how there were there were blessings for those that were in the physical covenant in the Old Testament, but Though that obedience that Admittance that action within those covenants did not mean you were saved.
You still had to have faith in what was to come and that was the mediator.
That would bring about the covenant of grace. The substance is Christ. Yeah. Amen. Hey Caleb you you have a book.
Do it's.
It's not it's not like a Joel Behe book it's like seven thousand three hundred and forty two pages. But it is a book nonetheless.
There it is. What do we got there? Thought that's from one man. Walking peaks and Oh sanctification type of book.
Yeah, I would say it's it's it's it would roll around with the idea of devotions. It's a devotional at the end of each chapter I put together sort of kind of some some questions that that each You know that people can use maybe in a small group or it just personal Bible study and and there's just different things that I have walked through in my Christian walk and It's just been something I put together and and it's nothing fancy but I've always wanted to write and I and I've Just finally just pulled the trigger.
It's all Brett Baggett's fault. He's he handed me a book and he had this little and that he wrote which is a fantastic book. And I was like, I was like, where did you and he and I were we were actually fight last feast.
Last year and he's like, this is where I did it and I was like, well, I've been typing things out and writing stuff and I've Edited and I've checked all this and so I just dumped it into Amazon and Amazon published it for me.
Yeah, it's.
I've.
It's it's all my. We can go to my website Caleb Gordon dot o-r-g up at the very top there there's a picture of the Amazon link and click it and. But if you come to the conference, you can get a physical copy At the conference because I have a whole box of them whole bunch of them.
That's awesome.
Well praise God for that. And then tell everybody about the conference one more time, too.
Yeah built cock conference that has come in February 22nd Hope Presbyterian Church in Bartlesville, Oklahoma. I'm really good friends with Pastor Peter Johnson from Hope Presbyterian. They have opened our their doors to us to host us.
It's gonna be a fantastic day. Michael Staten Brett Baggett, Josh Eaton Brandon Scalf Chris Gore Gabe wrench is gonna be there and the illustrious Andrew Rappaport will also be there as well and it's gonna be a fun time.
Yeah, definitely that sounds good. Tickets Ron say you can get it also. Go to my website Caleb Gordon. Dot o-r-g.
And only $50. I heard yeah 50 bucks. I mean you can't can't beat that.
Yeah, that's really good. I mean that it's Listen, it's the cheapest conference. You're gonna go to in 2025. It has the level of teaching that G3 has that shepherds conference has in fact week. We got two dudes that are from Master Seminary one one's a doctoral Student student and the other ones a professor of.
I don't remember what he does there, but he's teaching. I mean because we got we got master we got shepherds conference level guys that are gonna be preaching and and and better fellowship a 100 there's gonna be so much fellowship and time to just just get to know people To and we're also gonna have in the gym that they've got there.
We're gonna have a business conference. We've got a ton of great sponsors. There's gonna be resource tables that are gonna be there with all the all the different sponsors and businesses that are gonna be a part Of this come support those guys.
We got a ton of great sponsors. I've got like ten different sponsors and I just love them for what they're Investing in to try to advance the kingdom in the places where we walk. The idea is the strategy to advance the gospel in our time.
Amen. Hey real quick, and I know I didn't tell Braden this though. But let's give everybody kind of a plug and so he doesn't know I'm gonna say this. But I'm thinking like the next show. I know look at him.
He's totally surprised. I'm thinking the next show should be talking about hermeneutical principles. How do we read our Bible? Do we stick with a grammatical historical? Hermeneutic do we go with a historical Historical redemptive hermeneutic.
Do we throw out do we omit one of those? Do we look at typology? Do we compare scripture with scripture? What is the best way? To read the Bible through what lens does the old interpret the new or does the new interpret the old?
What do you think Braden?
Mm-hmm. Well, you might have I read a controversial post or a comment that I said I wrote out earlier. Sure. Sure. Sure. Interpret the old by the new and that is using a lens of Christ.
That is not to ignore a grammatical historical. It's actually a grammatical historical and also a redemptive historical. You tumble those those hermeneutical principles. They're not mute they're not exclusively at odds with each other.
They actually go hand-in-hand with one another. That's how the authors of the New Testament treated it and so I. This is my hot take for today. So you guys can write this down if you want. If your hermeneutical sorry, if your hermeneutics produce an interpretation of the Old Testament that an Israelite could say amen and Repeat in their synagogue your hermeneutic is too shallow and is to be rejected.
Christ Fire such interpretations of Moses and the law that excluded an ultimate lens of himself because those interpretations were veiled 2nd Corinthians 3 14 through 16.
Drop it. Can you read that verse real quick with that? 2nd Corinthians. What?
2nd Corinthians. I just had it up. Sorry 3. I think it was 3 14 through 16. So I'll say the quote again, and then I'll read the verse. How about that? Okay do that. Somebody needs to quote me on this.
All right, Braden Patterson. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna put flames behind it because this is gonna be a good show you guys.
All right, if your.
Hermeneutics.
Produce an Interpretation of the Old Testament that an Israelite could say amen and repeat in their synagogue. Your hermeneutic is too shallow and is to be rejected. Christ rejected such interpretations of Moses and the law that excluded an ultimate lens of himself.
Because those interpretations were veiled 2nd Corinthians 3 14 through 16 says. But their minds were hardened for to this day when they read the Old Covenant That same veil remains unlifted because only through Christ is it taken away?
Yes to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts but when one turns to the Lord the veil is removed.
Boom.
You guys.
You guys seriously, this is a huge topic. There there is a large camp that will only hold to the historical the historical grammatical Interpretation of the scriptures and they leave off typology. They leave off Looking at the old reading the Bible through the lens of Christ.
You guys we have more information now Having the scriptures completed.
Then Moses had. When he wrote it and one of the things that we're gonna be talking about is a favorite quote of some Samuel Rinehan. He said yes. The human authors had an understanding of what they wrote.
But they did not have an exhaustive understanding of what they wrote. Yes. So we're gonna be doing that next week. Y 'all you guys.
You need you need me back for sound effects, I just.
Man well, hey, thanks for having me on. Yeah, any last words. Caleb last words.
Drop in your game. Tell us.
Yeah, if you're if you're close by Cedarvale, Kansas. If you're in the Kansas area, Oklahoma, Northeastern, Oklahoma. Come come hang out with us, man. We got people that are driving from like 50 miles away to come to church.
It is a wild time Matt. I just saw Matt comment. I'm at. Matt is one of the guys at our church. Love the guy there. He is.
Matt. Matt can play a mean guitar. Holy boom. Hey, we need a we need a song Matt.
That's right Matt. They need some background music you need to record some sort of.
Embarrassing.
But bluegrass he does some bluegrass and I think he can play some skinnard every once in a while. So that'll be copyrighted if he does skinnard, so, you know something you just.
Humble clay always always good to have you man. Yeah, Michelle. You're the best. Well, not the best not. We got a whole bunch of people that are best, Georgia. Awesome. Michelle where's my wife? I don't see her coming.
She's asleep already lame. She said you're lame.
I'm out. I'm out.
Horrible song. Yeah, I got a text. What the heaven but the Brayden do the song.
Yeah, now seriously if you if you can come up to the conference with men come seriously if you if you get here your man I want to come hang out with you guys. Matt message me on get get get your tickets and then message me and you can come come Friday night.
Come hang out. Listen, I'm opening my house Friday night. Come on. Let's hang out.
So let's do it.
I'll just say if you guys have not gone out to share the gospel tomorrow is the Lord's Day. Go get edified built up in the Lord be equipped. You know and take some of that energy that you have some of that restoring some of that sanctification.
Some of the gospel that you heard tomorrow and go out and tell your neighbor go knock on the door. All you have to do is walk out your door and you see a lost and dying world. They need Christ. It's not as hard as you think it is.
Just go out there ask someone and you know. Have you ever thought what would happen to you if you were to die and tell them about the person and work of Christ? Alone for eternal life. Okay, can I just drop?
So this is my favorite thing to do. Yeah, I love going to Walmart grocery stores and going to the cashiers because they can't leave. And I listen this is how it just starts. I'll look at him and I got their name badge on them like hey Roger How can I pray for you hmm that I just start with that that's all I start with and then hey Do you Roger?
Do you know how to get to heaven? And most of the time they'll be like. And then we just jump in right Roger I keep using that guys as a reference. I Walked through that with Roger and then not too long ago. I was in an event.
I was preaching at this event and Roger comes up to me. He goes because I had mentioned Roger as it in my sermon as an illustration about going to talk to people. And I hadn't seen Roger in a couple years.
Had tears coming down his eyes. He goes Do you remember me? I said I do it Roger. He goes. That's me gave me this big huge hug and Plugged in loves the Lord gets under just like that's awesome. How many times we don't get to see the back end of that kind of right like the fruit.
But to see that he was in church. Oh, yeah Loving the Lord and I was just like Listen, that's a smart. I didn't I get you didn't seal the deal. Even if no one comes. Yes, right even if nobody comes we share the truth of who Christ is the Christ crucified and and to repent of your sins and trust the gospel and.
I'm telling you.
The grocery store is the best because I can't leave and most of the time and I've never had. I've actually I've had one guy. Tell me. I was like, hey, how can I pray for you guys? I'm an atheist. I don't pray I said.
Well now I know exactly how I need to pray for you my friend. Pray that God saves your soul and that you repent of your sins and trust Christ. And he's like, whatever and.
There is no God and I hate him.
99 .9 of the time so the crazy I'll finish with the story and I'll shut up. Okay. My brother-in-law's bachelor party. We were at a steakhouse in Tulsa, Oklahoma and there's a whole group of dudes.
We're all sitting in the steakhouse and this waiter's been busting his hump and he's helping us out. He's running up and down doing stuff and his name badge is on and I was like, hey Tyler. We're about to Pray for our food.
How can we pray for you? Oh, that is good. And he goes he goes. Well, man, actually, I'm I'm engaged and I'm looking at buying this house. I'm trying to hustle and grind so I can provide for my future wife and that that it just tells me I was like.
All right. Hold on guys. We're gonna stop. I'm gonna pen and paper real fast. I got right.
I sat him down. It's like get in here, bro. Sit down. I got the entire group of dudes. Not all of them were believers, but that's okay. Got the entire group of the dudes together. I said we're gonna lay hands on this brother.
I didn't go. Charismatic. Calm down for those right? We didn't. I didn't go there and I just said father I pray in the name of Jesus that you'd be with Tyler that you'd give him wisdom and the decisions He's gonna do make with his new bride.
God if if Tyler is not a believer father if he doesn't know you I pray that he would trust in your goodness that he would repent of his sins that he would trust the death bearer and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ for his salvation and that he would be a juggernaut for the kingdom.
Mmm, you mean you actually shared the gospel in the prayer? I yeah.
I pray preached a preacher prayed. That's right. And so and I so we get done. And then my friend clay Texts me that night. He goes.
Dude.
That was insane. I've never thought about doing that. Yeah, and then the next thing I know all these guys are doing the same thing. I've had that happen a couple times where I reach over and I just cuz everybody's up.
How can I pray for you. Want me this this this and oh, yeah, I'll pray for you later. Do it right now. Do it as you're standing there and I'm not kidding. I was praying at Walmart one time and I was letting I feel a hand on my shoulder.
Dude behind me starts praying with me.
He's a believer. Yeah, like come on. Yeah.
That's God man. That's the way you do it. It really is that it really is that easy, isn't it?
There's listen we got. There's like there's no magic formula. It's just right.
Share what you got. That's right. Come on, man. Yeah.
It's actually awesome because that was last week I was just teaching a class on evangelism and I talked about how You can pray the gospel and how effective that is. And so anyway, that's that's cool to hear.
Come on. All right. Sorry guys. Love y 'all. Hey, thank you, brother Caleb.
Let me do some plugs real fast before I give my before I get my outro. How about that? If you haven't checked out striving for eternity, you got to be careful saying his name because he'll just pop up out of nowhere.
It's like.
Striving for eternity. If you're watching us there, please go check out our YouTube channel open-air theology. We really are hoping to build that channel up and just to be able to continue to meet together with a larger Audience so that we can engage with people with genuine questions.
We had some awesome questions tonight. Yeah, we did really good dialogue. It was a great blessing. Also, go check out this book resist tyrants. Obey God by Jacob Tanner. Go check out this conference. Go check out this conference.
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Listen, we'd really hit that Bell button even hit the bell so that then that way when what's the bill? But I it'll notify you saying hey.
Yeah, and and I think that we could even persuade Caleb to send you his book free.
If you if there's somebody that wants a copy of this book message me, oh.
Look at that. We'll figure that out.
Great blessing to be here with you brothers tonight tomorrow. I am. I'm the pastor of Grace Bible Church in Moorpark, California. It's in the Ventura County area. So if you live in Southern, California.
Or you know somebody that does be a great blessing to see you or your loved one or your family or your relative whoever Neighbor whoever it is that you know that lives in this area. Tell them about our church.
We meet on Sundays at 1030. Be a great blessing to see you guys here and to worship the Lord together. We preach Christ and him crucified. Thank you guys. Open-air theology.
Tomorrow.
Gloria amen.
