On Matthew Barrett's Conversion to Anglicanism

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:29

Well, greetings and welcomes, bye. I'm trying to get the cameras to work and they're Someone must be stealing my truck or something.

00:36

I don't know but it's a Windows program and that's what Windows programs are all about in my experience anyways

00:44

Lots of stuff going on today back here in Phoenix trying to get things to work first time back

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I only had 11 % battery left on this on this computer when

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I got back Okay, that's life Anyway, uh, it's just I just don't know that anything's working out there anymore

01:04

Yeah, what is this? permission declined I'm not allowed.

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I'm not allowed to look at It it worked until ten minutes ago

01:21

Well, if my trucks gone All the tech guys are fired just immediately. It's all there is to it

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How it's gonna go Hey to hate having that sitting there and it's not working. Anyway, why do we have a lot of things to get to today?

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Well, actually only have one thing to get to today primarily but I have been buried today with with this stuff and you know people keep sending me the same links over and over again and And saying have you seen this have you seen this have you seen this and I'm like, yes, of course

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I've seen this How could I have not seen this? Look I don't remember the first time we took the time to start interacting with The rise of a fascination with Thomas Aquinas and quote -unquote

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Classical theology, at least that's the terminology they like to use An emphasis on Natural theology and you know the supremacy of well

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Rediscovering the great tradition Okay, and some of you'll recall we did lengthy programs

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In the big studio and put stuff up on the board and went back and forth and Did all this stuff for quite some time and one of the primary people we were dealing with Was dr.

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Matthew Barrett. It was Baptist Theological Seminary and we kept putting pictures up for example of the

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Midwestern Baptist of the Suggested books in the library or the bookstore or probably connected to each other and you know six out of the ten would be by Roman Catholics and We point out this was happening rather broadly not just there but in Reformed Baptist circles as well and Our our concern was it doesn't seem to us like these folks a

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Have a whole lot of interaction With Roman Catholics. They don't seem to be very much involved in Evangelizing Roman Catholics and in fact you start wondering if they might come to the conclusion that Roman Catholics don't need to be evangelized

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And and look there are many people in quote -unquote Protestantism. Remember Protestantism is just a catch -all phrase

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It doesn't have any actual existence I mean, what is Protestantism?

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It's just something that isn't Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox But even that has no meaning to it because that would include

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You know Mormonism, which is polytheistic and Jehovah's Witnesses who are

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Unitarian and all sorts of other stuff along the way so there isn't any quote -unquote

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Protestant Church, but unfortunately, that's what you have to deal with and So Within the the ranks of these folks this

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You know, there are Protestants Who don't believe we need to evangelize

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Roman Catholics or anything like that. They don't believe the gospel is actually definitional and central

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To defining the faith or it's part of the adiaphora or You can have

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Such a wide definition of the gospel that anything really fits in there. And so we don't have to worry about any of that guys and so we sort of raised some alarms and said look, um, this is the home of the

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You know Spurgeon the big big big name there at that school and Used to you know, lots of conferences about Spurgeon and things like that and all of a sudden

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Instead I remember specifically Mentioning and it wasn't that long ago as within the past two years that Students were hand -drawing pictures of Thomas Aquinas and Giving them to Matthew Barrett who is displaying them on the walls of his office and You know ten years earlier

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Those would have been pictures of Charles Hatton Spurgeon or maybe some other, you know early

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Baptist leader But it wouldn't be a Dominican monk but that's what was going on now and there was more than once I said are the

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Are the people in charge at Midwestern really? Is this what they want Is this the direction they want the school to go and Everybody is like, oh, yes neat.

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You just you are just so overreacting You know, you just you just need to you know learn to reclaim the great tradition and all this kind of stuff and and you need to stop being a biblicist

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You know, I'm sure that Spurgeon would have just died if someone called him a biblicist anyway so we

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More than once we sort of said, you know, there's some There's some questions out here, um,

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I'm going to play this Because I didn't have a means of I guess

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I could have downloaded it I'll just do the audio It's just me anyways, so who cares Friend of mine sent me two clips.

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I Wouldn't have had time to find these so it's nice to have friends to do things like this but friend sent me two clips from the dividing line one's from me sitting right here and one is from the mobile command center

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Version two so the Jayco that we had for a while that I would still love to be pulling but If it had been made right anyway

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Two clips and as he put it these video clips are aging well not everything you do ends up aging well, but here is there's first one and I I can't tell you exactly what the date is on it but No, I could have tracked it.

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I've had more time but Busy day. I actually ended up getting all the last of my well. I just realized

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I forgot a few things but all the stuff out of the RV Pull her tomorrow morning get her stored in our covered storage spot

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Only for like 32 days Before the next merit this next one. This was a pretty short trip

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Next one's a marathon well over a month and Marathon distance wise too.

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So yeah, anyway here's the first clip and This is yours truly

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Much like to the doctrine of God he critiques men like Matthew M Barrett Implies they are going to Rome again.

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You hear the simplicity when I point out Barrett's wildly imbalanced fascination with Thomas Aquinas, I Don't know if he'll ever become

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Roman Catholic. Maybe well, maybe you won't I don't know but it's wildly imbalanced if you are at a

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Southern Baptist seminary and your students are drawing pictures of Thomas Aquinas for you.

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You might want to go. Hmm. Huh? Something strange. There's an imbalance a massive imbalance.

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Just look at his timeline. I Talked about Calvin half as much as Matthew Barrett talks about Thomas Aquinas and All you gotta do is go back to 2016 when he wrote a book on solo scriptura.

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That's not the same guy That's not the same guy Something has changed big time

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Yeah, and that's true. Something has changed big time And it's also true that the book he wrote on solo scriptura in 2016

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Which almost never made reference to Thomas Aquinas at all certainly not as part of its argumentation

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I just don't even know how he could continue to have in print Given recent events for those of you don't know.

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I'm sorry I just sort of assumed everybody is inundated with things as I am today

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But Matthew Barrett has left. Well Midwestern I found out last week I was informed last week that Midwestern was not extending his contract and Today this morning and so there was also the

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News started getting out yesterday day for yesterday that He was joining an

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Anglican seminary But the question is still as well But is he an

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Anglican? That's sort of isn't that necessary first become an Anglican before you teach it.

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No, I'm not necessarily these days and and then his article appeared this morning at least hitting my feed this morning and It's his whole discussion of his conversion to Anglicanism and So everybody's you know when it first started coming out everybody's like well,

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I know somebody that called that one and That's why I'm playing these things here right now.

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There's a second clip I mean, I don't necessarily blame them for feeling a bit nauseated

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Absolutely, and then they just give up at that point. And so what I always say to them is

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Don't pay attention to the caricatures Those are our sloppy misrepresentations of Protestantism's Protestantism they are radicalizations of Otherwise good principles.

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Yeah instead go back to actually history itself and look look at what say the reformed

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For example, look at how they went about their theology. Not only was it incredibly robust but it was inherently

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Making the claim that they were say Augustinian or in some cases.

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They were even Refining and transforming Thomism for the sake of arguing against the

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Armenians and Sicilians, right? I mean just countless examples of this So, there you go, there's there's the reasoning

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Oh, they were using Thomas and had to get Thomas had to get Thomas in there nothing about grounding people in the apostolic revelation of Scripture not there not there the man who wrote the book in 2016 doesn't exist anymore.

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It's like Bruce Jenner Caitlyn Jenner boom gone Astonishing It's not troubling deeply deeply troubling so again,

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I don't have the exact dates on those but those were both yours truly and Look I I did not say

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Matthew Barrett's going to do this or you know this amount of time. I don't make predictions like that what

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I have indicated is that If you hold the positions that he was enunciating in a flurry of books that came out some of which evidently a lot of folks felt were rather hurried and Therefore of a lower quality than they might have otherwise, but the stuff that he was enunciating

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I'm like This isn't Baptist It's not Southern Baptist. I'm before Baptist.

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It's just not Baptist Baptist Because it is elevating tradition to a position of ultimate

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Interpretational authority and I don't care Who you are? Baptists don't believe that and our theology isn't derived from and You know, you can say well that that's why we need to stop being

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Baptist. Well, he just did At least he's being consistent at that point

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Um now the reasons why he did we're gonna look at that from his article, but the the point is

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All this scholasticism that has been coming into reform Baptist circles was coming into a bit

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Western This is inconsistent with what defines

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Baptist theology Practice and polity as well and that is a

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Straightforward not crass Not the constant straw man as long as the words are found the

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Bible. You can't say that I've met like three people in my entire life that ever said anything like that at all.

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They they are not a threat to the church They're just weird But a strong biblicism that says that the only sure word from God.

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The only thing is the Anustos is scripture Um that this was Jesus view of scripture we should hold

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Jesus as view of scripture if we're gonna follow him and therefore The you know, the amazing thing that I've been attacked for over and over I had a

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Guy half an hour ago saying yeah, well at least Matthew Barrett still Orthodox on the

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Trinity unlike you And so we Examine any kind of later doctrinal development in the light of scripture and Give it authority based upon its consistency with scripture

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Not like it has like there's some oral tradition that exists outside of scripture passed down from the

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Apostles we've heard all we've all heard that one before and Look at that and I'll tell you

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I Have spoken to lots of Roman Catholics that are just licking their chops. Oh Your folks are getting into Aquinas.

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Well, we'll get a few more rooms available that the local seminary for the upcoming priests

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You know things like that, you know, they're he's ours. We know he's ours. There isn't any question about that and So if your students are drawing pictures of Aquinas pretty soon, they'll be drawing pictures of Pope Leo the 14th

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It's inevitable. That's that's the progress so What I did learn about is that once you collapse on certain foundational issues regarding scriptural sufficiency over against any kind of Whatever terminology of tradition you want to use

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Those are the people who if they continue to seek consistency Will end up not only leaving our churches but moving toward a different expression of Christian faith and that might be

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Certain highly liturgical churches That are still not necessarily in his obedience to Rome Maybe Eastern Orthodoxy that's become real popular over the past couple years or obviously to Rome because The fact the matter is

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Having been doing this for over 40 years. I know I can think back on numerous people who

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Lost confidence. Well, let's put this way. I didn't grab it, but there's a series of books called surprised by truth and They are the stories of converts to Roman Catholicism.

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I think there's four volumes before volumes of it and at least three and Read them

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How many of those people? Once they lost confidence in scriptural sufficiency

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Didn't move directly to Roman Catholicism or directly to Eastern Orthodoxy But they took some of what we call them stutter steps, maybe

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Um Moving to a liturgical church that you know, hey you go from a

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Calvary Chapel style Free -flowing

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Contemporary Christian music filled Jesus my boyfriend songs

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Um 17 minute entertaining Multimedia presentation type thing

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You move from that to a high liturgical Anglican service with all the vestments and the pomp and circumstance and Candles and maybe even some incense here there and To you that's like the biggest shift in the world now interestingly enough the sermons still be about the same long and same length but Big big big change and What happens is off man now now

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I'm worshiping like they did in the early church Depends on how you define early church and which early church in a what time period and it was an evolutionary thing and up until 313 no why that wasn't happening because it couldn't happen because you had to do it in houses and stuff like that.

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But anyway Getting into the details of church history isn't normally what they're doing.

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They're just getting into the groove the the feeling of it all and So for a while that'll be enough

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The newness of that remains new for a while But read those stories

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Even when they Go to an Episcopalian Church and Anglican Church, maybe a super high liturgy

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Lutheran Church or something like that Eventually they get hit with the authority question

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Eventually they get hit with the okay, you're doing all this stuff, but you got all that stuff from us in the first place

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So why aren't if you're taking the great tradition seriously and In this case, you're constantly promoting

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Roman Catholic writers and things like that. Then why not go all the way and They end up going all the way.

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I I don't know what the percentage is But if you look at the surprise by truth volumes if you look at the coming home

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Network And listen to almost any Percentage of the interviews they've done.

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There will be a very large number of people who Needed to take a small step first and maybe a couple steps

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Before they finally Cross the Tiber River into full communion with the

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Roman Catholic Church or these days Cross the Bosporus or something like that went to Constantinople.

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However, you want to talk about conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy and Anglicanism Episcopalianism Has very very very often been that intermediate step

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There's something else that needs to be and I'm gonna look at the article and talk about the stuff that he talks about but it's something else that just absolutely

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I Was very very clear about this and I've said this about some other people in this same group of Evangelical scholars to use the term broadly reformed scholars

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There is a How do I how do I put this

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I want to be careful and fair But there's almost nothing for some for some men

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Acceptance in the Academy is life praise of the

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Academy praise of one's scholarship praise of one's insights It's everything it's it

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Has more value than money family love anything. It's the greatest thing they want and if you want to Really Stand at the head of the class shall we say and really be seen as a true scholar, especially in church history in Systematic theology and and all the things

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Especially if you are Absolutely taken with and enamored by Thomas Aquinas.

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There's only one place to be there's only one church to be a part of You may get there slowly you may get there quickly, but you're gonna get there eventually and so if the true driving reason for someone to I mean

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It was my understanding that Barrett was the head of the doctoral program at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary so he was in charge of What these men are going to be studying and All that kind of stuff

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If you're gonna leave that and what you really want is a recognition of your scholarship

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I'm not sure how long you're gonna stay with an Anglican is you might but so it depends on what your field of study is a

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Number of other people have said the exact same thing. I'm about to say as well online,

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I just saw someone saying this and It certainly struck me because of how the news came out the news came out first that he was leaving

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Midwestern then that he was going to an Anglican seminary and part of the question was

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Does that mean he's an Anglican? You'd sort of think that was part of it

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So since it came out somewhat herky -jerky Here's here's something it's it's troubling to me it should be troubling to everybody

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I think and I really think that the leadership of the Anglican seminary that has hired him should be the ones answering this but how do you hire someone

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To teach a research professor in what was that was term research professor in Systematic theology or something.

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What was that the title something along those lines? How do you hire somebody who five minutes ago was a

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Baptist I Mean It strikes me as really odd That You would put someone who is a brand new convert to your tradition.

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I mean, he's literally writing About how he changed his view on Baptist.

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He's right. I'm Baptist. He was writing a book on Systematic theology. How was the baptism section changed?

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Is he gonna have had he written that part yet? I'd be really interested in what the pre -conversion

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Version of it Was that would be fascinating.

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We'll never see it. But anyway What I don't understand if I were the head of a seminary

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Okay, I'm I I do teach for a seminar I teach for Grace Bible Theological Seminary now if a

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Let's say a Roman Catholic Was converted who is a famous Roman Catholic theologian published dozens of books and Comes to this comes to the conclusion that I was wrong all that time

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And I've become a good Reformed Baptist so You know last semester.

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He was teaching at a Roman Catholic school if he applied to teach

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At GBTS, I really think that the leadership would go Wow, that's where we're honored but Wouldn't you like to you know

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Take a little time to adjust to a rather radically different context here and understanding of Ecclesiology and There's a lot of questions about Soteriology and sufficiency of scripture and yeah,

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I don't I don't think that's Be wise to you know, just immediately Jump into a teaching role

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When you were just teaching something very different like five minutes ago so That that certainly crossed my mind.

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I Suppose this may have been a conversation ongoing For quite some time maybe he saw that his time was short at Midwestern maybe maybe because that the article doesn't necessarily

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Give us a specific timeline as to when all this place But it does seem very strange to me

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That you would go from teaching be the head of the doctoral program And a sudden about seminary and the next semester you're teaching for an

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Anglican seminary as an Anglican In Anglican theology something strange here and That's why

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I personally believe the fundamental reason is mentioned But it's not really mentioned as a fundamental reason.

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I think it's there. We'll get to it But I I hope people catch that So he was at Midwestern for eight years and And He said that for two decades my family has sacrificed a lot for the

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SPC we can do so no longer I Cannot begin to express how happy we are with that decision.

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I now I'm not a Southern Baptist What? Oh Okay, um

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Anyway, Rich is pointing at things and I'm going what the world and I guess the light has burned out or something

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Oh, yeah, anyway, um this article is a

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Someone described as a as a bunker buster bomb on the SPC and look

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There's there's a lot to be said about problems in the SPC. There's a lot to be said about what happened at the last

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Convention conference, what do you want to call it annual meeting? You know Some of us are just Getting to the point where it's really seems like there is a

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Southern Baptist deep state. That's not going anywhere It doesn't matter how many people vote or don't vote or anything else.

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It's just it's permanent and ain't going anywhere So there's there's lots of things to criticize about the

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SPC but it It should be noted, you know

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Is Midwestern gonna respond to this and and who's gonna do it because I don't know how they can't

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How can you not respond to You know, I can't begin to express how happy with others we can no longer support the

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SPC da da da da da I Don't know how they they can't this was there for a couple years

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He was their darling boy. I mean, this is where you want to go to get your PhD and all the rest that kind of stuff and So He gives some reasons.

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All right the first pillar That was knocked down by this tornado of a storm

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He describes the first pillar started to crack a year ago When a group of Southern Baptists stood before the

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SPC asking for the inclusion of the Nicene Creed in the Baptist faith and message now I heard

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The motion was made This wasn't a year ago, maybe it was made a year ago and it was made again just a few weeks ago

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But I I had heard of this and It's my understanding that Most of the issue was in regards to how this is being done it seems to me that anything that the

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Deep state the SPC doesn't really want to do They come up with some parliamentary reason to just not even allow it to be debated that happens all the time and But I don't find this to be much of a argument

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I Criticized the SPC. I criticized the Baptist faith and message What was it what 20 years ago

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When a oneness Pentecostal singing group Phillips Craig and Dean were invited to perform at the

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SPC pastors conference, which happens right before the annual meeting and I pointed out the

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Baptist faith and message is so vague on The Doctrine of Trinity that one is

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Pentecostals could actually sign it and get away with it They can sign it honestly honestly in the sense that Yeah, I can agree with these words.

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It's not honestly in a sense that if you looked historically at What?

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the framers had intended that they were intending to leave open a

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Possible denial of doctrine trainer something like that. So I look

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I The the 1689 is a whole lot more specific than the

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Baptist faith and message but they would argue it needs to be broad to have a broad movement and look how much bigger the

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SPC is than Anything the 1689 is produced But I don't

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I don't think that that's Because it can still happen It's not like well, we reject the content of the

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Nicene Creed or something like that It's interesting below that he says

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Let me see He's talking about the polity of the SPC It says

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I've come to realize that even if it is included the polity of the denomination is not such that can implement the creed with authority like other traditions can

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Traditions that believe in councils and synods and have the polity to credibly support them well, that would have to mean that there is a

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Biblical a Sufficiently biblical argument to be made for councils and synods and issues like that, right?

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Is that the argument that's being made? But more the point the culture of the

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SPC is not one that can ultimately sustain who? those who care about retrieval and the great tradition

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Okay. Now there's a little flash of light on the real reasons For Matthew Barrett leaving the

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Sun Vest Convention is The culture of the SPC is not one that can ultimately sustain those who care about retrieval and the great tradition now

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We've seen lots of different definitions what the great tradition is or might be Retrieval what exactly does that mean depends on who's trying to get you to hire them publish their book

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I'll click on their stuff and get the money whatever But it is the big thing that he's talking about and that certain other people together with him are talking about and He's saying that the

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SPC isn't well, you know what? I think he knew that years ago. I Think he knew that from the beginning

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Maybe he sort of thought that well, I can change all that and it didn't end up working out

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But that I think is part of the primary reason Um Then he said the second pillar that started to crack was polity

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But more specifically the culture in which is embedded my experience have to do two decades Both of the local level and institutional level is this the southern bat for Southern Baptist Image is everything.

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Uh Yeah Yeah, no question about that one You look at the

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Southern Baptist Deep State you look at The leadership that became embedded during kovat and Just seems to still have control even though they're not technically in charge anymore

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Yeah for Southern Baptist Image is everything and he says

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Southern Baptist pastors often tell their congregations just trust us and don't gossip Which results in a church incapable of acting when they suspect sin in the leadership

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Moreover they have little recourse to an external ecclesiastical authority to hold the leadership accountable. Well, that's it.

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That's a nice easy shot there Unless you know anything about your history

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It's really say we have an external ecclesiastical authority to hold the leadership accountable Yes, you do unless the leadership itself is corrupt and Church history is filled with centuries of unceasing corruption because there was an external ecclesiastical authority that itself was corrupt and had rejected scriptural sufficiency and Therefore there was no way of fixing it

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So it's really easy to go. Well, we can put a look at you folks. You Work there you need to have people that can be in charge you can change everything and then you go

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Exactly. How well has that worked? Down through history ever heard the pornography that it's amazing, you know, dr

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Barrett writes all these books about church history, but sometimes he says stuff that makes me go I'm not sure how deeply you're reading at this subject.

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I really really don't Exactly where does this external ecclesiastical authority come from and What is its ultimate authority and how can it be reformed if it needs to be reformed?

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You know, these are big questions a lot of people hey Southern Baptist don't think about it I get that That doesn't mean because they don't think about it that that means we should just go ahead and well

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I didn't work. Let's grab this thing over here and doesn't work historically then we had this and I You know,

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I have had lots of Church members and friends over the years that you know, you

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Serve together in a church and then they move away or something like that and also discover they've changed

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Nominations and they've changed their views on baptism and you would think That in the process of something important is that that They might have contacted me, you know, they know

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I've done a few things and and you know

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They used to think that I had won those debates rather handily and Now sudden they change your views and they don't want to talk about it for love no money and it's because they know they still can't answer my questions, but It's just something comfortable to do and it felt right and it got me into the church

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I want to get into and so there you go. It really seems like the baptism question

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Everybody looks at Fritz Erba and goes dude. Just change your view. Don't die in a hole

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Just change your view. It doesn't really matter and That's how it seems a lot of people do things.

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So He says oh Wait a minute.

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Okay. I'm sorry Okay We'll get to the bat

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It scrolled too fast, we'll get to the baptism thing just one second. Let me finish up the previous point.

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I Skip this part of the article after reading the book of Acts with fresh eyes. That's Over the years.

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I've learned the terminology of converts Okay, you know y 'all send a fresh eyes when you want to get out of the situation

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You're in after in the book of Acts with fresh eyes, especially the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 It was conspicuous to me that most other traditions are far more consistent with the whole of Acts Presbyterians have a presbytery and synods they do

40:58

Never ending sources of constant friction accusations charges

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You know you you bring people up on charges and it goes on for years and it goes to a committee and then to a

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Subcommittee and then and I've just listened to this stuff from years. So lots of presbyterians. I know but they've got them

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They've got them and there are a lot of times a Baptist just has to throw his hands up and say well They're not part of our church.

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We're not gonna think about okay Presbyterians have a presbytery and synods and Anglicans prosper on a rich heritage of bishops and councils

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Does that include Welby? You know the head of the Anglican Church. Well You know

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Anglicanism has split up recently it's fractured and oh so now you have to pick which councils and bishops and Councils of bishops that you listen to right didn't quite bring the unity that you thought

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After the Apostolic Age Episcopacy becomes the majority report in the pre -modern church for good reason

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And what would that reason be dr. Berry? Where does that reason come from?

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exegesis All the passages in the New Testament that teach us about synods and councils.

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I mean acts of teens apostolic the Apostles are in that council and You can try to say what that means that we should have councils and they should have authority and and all the rest of that stuff, but that will require the establishment of Offices that the

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New Testament never anything knows anything about Yeah, there are bishops. They're also called elders the same office

42:47

So episcopacy is just I mean that's Episcopal is the New Testament word But those are elders in local churches not bishops over entire regions, that's a that's evolutionary development and it and not one that took place in a overly consistent fashion either

43:06

Which led to all sorts of arguments, but then there's a little footnote here's a little itty -bitty footnote and It's an important itty -bitty footnote.

43:15

There are only four of them This is the only one has any substance to it. But here's the itty -bitty foot. I had to ask myself

43:24

Why did the church fathers believe the New Testament naturally gave birth to bishops of which we have elaborate records

43:33

What? bishops the Episcopal and the presbytery same office

43:42

Used interchangeably by Paul, right You did believe that once didn't you dr.

43:48

Barrett? Didn't you teach that to people? So, what do you mean naturally gave birth to bishops of which we have elaborate records?

43:56

We do have elaborate records of bishops But what do you mean that the New Testament naturally gave birth?

44:03

to one of the only two offices in the New Testament was that even supposed to mean and Then check this out.

44:11

Are we consistent to cherry -pick? Stealing away the doctrine of the creeds

44:18

While rejecting the polity of the councils and the office of Bishop so instrumental to implementing doctrinal accountability in the church once you hear that again as this is

44:33

Central are we consistent to cherry -pick? Stealing away the doctrines of creeds.

44:40

So the Nicene Creed Okay, you have the the symbol that is defined by the council, but they did other stuff

44:49

They had cannons and decrees that had to do with the polity of the councils and That polity was about you know, where did

45:00

Rome have authority where Constance and Opal have authority where to Alexandria? Well, it wasn't really Constance. I see a bit later on Um You hear what's being said here?

45:12

Because one of my one of my statements is going to be quite simply there is

45:21

There's nothing in this article that Fundamentally could not have been said by Matthew Barrett if he had become a

45:31

Roman Catholic There's nothing about Catholicism. There's nothing about the gospel. Nothing about justification my faith

45:42

Papacy nothing there And the language he uses the exact same language that converts to Catholicism used as well.

45:50

I Found the beauty of the Anglican Church. I found the beauty of the Catholic Church in the liturgy

45:56

Okay so the question that all of us should have is

46:02

What makes us think given what Matthew Barrett has said that this is the end of the road? What's the barrier that keeps him from going across the

46:12

Tiber or across the Bosporus for that matter? so What did

46:19

I what was what has been one of my? consistent criticisms of the rise of this neo scholastic

46:27

Thomistic movement amongst once conservative reformed evangelicals

46:35

You're cherry -picking You can talk about the necessity of the of the of the

46:41

Nicene Creed, but then you go Yeah, but everything else they believe we can talk Don't have to worry about their ecclesiology, but I have to worry about their polity don't have to worry about the elevation of bishops the denigration of presbyters the transformation of presbyter off to priest

46:59

Don't worry about any of that stuff All the you know, we can go to Cal suns exact same thing.

47:05

They have to worry about the cannons and cannons That's just church stuff that yeah, they didn't get that one, right?

47:12

They got they got the main stuff, right, but all this other stuff. Yeah Okay, that's my point was

47:22

The authority of the creeds has to be subscriptural Just as we use a scriptural standard to reject the cannons and the greats

47:31

I'm consistent you guys aren't Now what he's saying is are we consistent to cherry -pick answer is no

47:41

Oh Stealing away the doctrine of the creeds. Oh, we hold a council. Oh, we hold it. I see him While rejecting the polity of the councils and the office of bishops so instrumental to implementing doctrinal accountability in the church

47:53

That's Rome's argument for the papacy That's Rome's argument for the papacy.

48:00

Oh, no, no, no. No, you don't have to go that far. That's Rome's argument for the papacy How are you gonna argue against it once you once you buy?

48:07

That you have to accept the polity of the councils, um They're all under the submission of the

48:15

Bishop of Rome well not okay not initially But from the

48:21

Roman Catholic perspective today those councils have authority because the Pope approved them, so What do you do with the fact that the

48:32

Nicene the sixth Canon the Council of Nicaea? Talks about an overriding authority the Bishop of Rome in certain areas not overriding the authority of the

48:41

Bishop of Alexandria in his areas but There's a form of Episcopacy, right?

48:50

So when Leo writes his tome Chalcedon Just continued development and that's why

49:00

I say What stops somebody where they are What's gonna stop

49:07

Matthew Barrett here This is with a with a statement like this Well, we can't cherry -pick

49:15

Have you have you looked at what these councils said about church polity things like that and How easy would it be for him to go?

49:24

Well, I just read the book of Acts again with even fresher eyes and all of a sudden

49:30

I See the necessity of the papacy ever, right?

49:37

All right, so back to Point three

49:45

God took a sledgehammer to the third pillar baptism when forced to account for the whole of ecclesiology in the book of Acts.

49:56

I Simultaneously could not escape the Apostle Peter's stalwart promise at Pentecost Okay, now look

50:04

Presbyterian brothers Hitch up your you know girdle, whatever, you know, get ready

50:13

I Have made this criticism for a long time. All right, and it's an absolutely valid criticism

50:21

Absolutely valid criticism. I don't care what you say You cannot pick on me for pointing this out

50:28

But it's pretty astonishing how fast it is once you Adopt the pedo -baptist position and hey, you know

50:38

If you think there are differences between federal visionism and non federal visionism and amongst

50:43

Presbyterians You can make a whole lot stronger arguments for a quote -unquote federal vision baptismal

50:55

Regenerational perspective in Anglicanism than you can from the Westminster confession.

51:00

That's for sure so how Fast is it?

51:07

Once you adopt pedo -baptism that the last part of Acts 239 disappears from your

51:12

Bible Because you all never quote it And I've proved it

51:18

I've quoted people over and over again and here it is Okay at the end of an evangelistic message

51:23

Peter calls on the crowd to repent be baptized for the forgiveness of sins and receive the Spirit but that's not all

51:29

Peter adds for the promises for you and for your children acts 239 See the pedo -baptist

51:37

Bible doesn't have the rest of verse in it This doesn't RC did it Everybody does it except for Baptists who actually read the entire text because as you know

51:50

Peter said to them repent and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of forgiveness for your sins and you will Receive the gift of the

51:56

Holy Spirit. It is that Gift of the Holy Spirit and the prophetic fulfillment of what that is that is in view here

52:03

For the promise what promise the promise of the reception of the Holy Spirit is for you and your children and For all who are far off as many as the

52:16

Lord our God will call to himself So what you have in Acts 239 these men have said to Peter we killed the

52:27

Messiah we're done for what can we do and Peter said repent and believe and So he says the promises for you and your children, that's the

52:37

Jews and For all who far off that's the Gentiles Who as many as the

52:44

Lord our God will call to himself. That's the elect from among the Jews and Gentiles That's the consistent message of the

52:51

New Testament Reformed people should understand this they should hear it. They should rejoice in it, but they don't

52:57

That last part and For all who are far off. Oh, you mean the promises for the

53:02

Gentiles? Yes, as Many as the Lord our God will call to himself.

53:09

So there's election Doesn't mean all Jews doesn't mean all Gentiles as many as the

53:15

Lord our God will call to himself You've got to let the whole sentence stand how fast

53:22

How quick did it happen? For Matthew Barrett to go from being a credentialed professor at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary to being able to quote

53:34

Acts 239 for their promises for you and for your children end of quotation as as a defense of pedo -baptism it just As soon as I saw that I'm just like are you serious?

53:51

How and then he goes on to say I think Peter was smart enough to know what he was doing Are you smart enough to know when you're cutting somebody's sentence in half?

54:01

Lee leaving the definitional part out He knew he was echoing God's covenant promise to Abraham a promise that is not individualistic

54:11

But corporate not free will base, but familial you mean oh It's familial based.

54:18

How about Graciously and sovereignly based on election because that's what acts 239 actually says when you read the whole verse

54:27

You don't just cut off the part. You don't like I mean Wow Okay Knowing the continuity of the covenant promise

54:36

Peter was not about to leave the children of believers homeless Well isn't that nice the children of believers?

54:42

How about allowing the text to speak for itself? You think that might be the way to do it?

54:51

The promise is for you and your children Jews they haven't you haven't been cut off Yes, you crucify the

54:57

Messiah But you haven't been cut off repent believe and for all those who are far off the message is gonna go to the entire world

55:05

Gentiles as Many as the Lord our God shall call to himself. It's so clear

55:12

It's so easy No Not when our traditions get in the way not when the great tradition comes along and tells you what you need to find in acts 239

55:25

So he says but the scales fell off my eyes I'm sorry, but sometimes the language of converts even when it comes to baptism is

55:41

But the scales fell off my eyes when I saw for the first for the first time That the

55:47

Baptist hermeneutic is truly individualistic it's modern to the bone Evidently You know because he quotes he directs people to JV Fesco and Guy Watters you're gonna gonna

56:04

Maybe direct people to the Reformed Baptist writings in subject or did you ever read them?

56:11

Did you I don't see any evidence you did Your language does not show a meaning if I converted my from my position

56:21

My language would demonstrate that I know what we once argued and I would use that language. You're not

56:28

Have you read? covenantal Baptist responses to these arguments to Fesco and waters

56:36

I Don't get the feeling you did But he was the head of the PhD department at a

56:42

Baptist University Baptist Seminary After noticing it could not account for the whole canon.

56:49

What does that mean? I Also had to ask myself was the entire church wrong to baptize the children of believers

56:56

For a millennium and a half notice what it is. Does there well, he says a millennium and a half Isn't this the great church historian that we're all supposed to be learning from you ever read to Tullian Have you have you ever read any discussions of baptism in the early church?

57:14

I mean sure there are pedo -baptists that will find it in those amazing references, but honest reviews show that there were a multitude of views of baptism in the early church and That the first instances of her infant baptism are not apostolic

57:36

Their emergency baptisms. That's not the normative way I'm sorry.

57:41

I'm not gonna trust this man with church history I didn't before for other reasons, but I certainly ain't going to now when he produces this kind of sophistry that has

57:54

It does not show any real knowledge of church history on this subject. I mean seriously

58:06

Was believers baptism taught by the Apostles only to disappear under the supervision of the greatest theologians of the church and then

58:12

Reappear for the first time in 16th century for someone serious about Catholicity that pill was too big to swallow

58:18

Mark those words Mark those words Because they can be applied

58:26

To even more definitional issues such as how you made right with God the nature of sacramental grace there were a lot of things that developed the first 500 years of church and Until recently at least by profession

58:45

Matthew Barrett seemed to recognize What was what now he has no basis for recognizing anything of the the pill that's too big to swallow here is

58:59

How you go from the New Testament evidence to the fifth century without a fundamental denigration of and denial of scriptural sufficiency and an elevation of Tradition so, you know

59:15

Basil Basil is Identifies as apostolic tradition the form of baptism

59:26

Which is naked three times forward facing east

59:32

Okay, but you're not doing but who are you to judge right?

59:39

I mean, there's there was lots of There's clear evidence

59:46

That in a lot of early Christianity baptism was Performed nude and there are places where it was trying baptism and that's we're told that that's apostolic

59:59

That the Apostles taught you're to be baptized in the name of the Father Good don't don't face first and the

01:00:05

Sun could don't could don't and the Holy Spirit don't could don't three times And yeah, sometimes the direction was considered important.

01:00:12

And by the way, that's dunking That it wasn't deep deep deep into baptism it was adult baptism

01:00:22

So, I'm sorry for anyone who I'm the one sitting here saying the view of baptism in the early church is

01:00:33

Multiform it's everywhere I'm not saying that's that way in the New Testament But Traditions began to develop when not everybody had all the

01:00:44

New Testament and they come into conflict So, sorry

01:00:51

The pill would be hard for me to swallow is to listen to what Matthew Barrett says about church history after stuff like this so Hopefully someone can

01:01:03

Hopefully someone will send dr. Barrett the rest of acts 239. He can sort of you know, insert it back Maybe making a marginal note

01:01:12

It's manuscript right in the corner, you know, see if that eventually that'll get copied back into the text of Scripture and So he goes on to talk about the beauty of Anglicanism There I met

01:01:25

Anglicanism as if for the first time that there I found the church and she was beautiful indeed You know many times

01:01:30

I've heard Catholic converts saying there I met Catholicism as if for the first time there

01:01:36

I found the church and she was beautiful indeed Over and over and over and over and over again

01:01:45

It's the language of conversion I get it I get it now This a church

01:01:58

Look people have said I just can't believe you people who could care less about Coming angling and they're

01:02:04

Protestants like everybody else and blah blah blah blah. Okay. Look There are I've said

01:02:11

Behind this microphone for a very very long time. I Have said there are good solid

01:02:20

Anglicans out there and I've told you I Gone down to Australia when

01:02:27

I still traveled internationally and I've preached in Anglican churches and I've preached on justification and I've preached on Inspiration of Scripture and the last time

01:02:39

I had the opportunity to do that I was talking to folks on how to understand their Muslim neighbors present the gospel of Jesus to their

01:02:46

Muslim neighbors all sorts of stuff like that so there are

01:02:52

You know people going. Oh, I just can't believe anybody would care if you became an Anglican because you know JC Rao was an

01:02:58

Anglican and he was godly man. Yes, sir was But y 'all remember when I asked John Shelby's fun

01:03:05

About JC Rao. Most of you don't know I debated John Shelby's fun. Who is an Episcopalian? bishop

01:03:12

Episcopalian being the American branch of the Anglican Church Church of England and he asked me

01:03:21

Where when JC Rao minister, he didn't even know who he was. He'd never read anything.

01:03:29

And so as I said, there are good Solid I call them the

01:03:35

Sydney Anglicans More college down there in Sydney. They believe in inerrancy believe in the authority of scripture.

01:03:42

They believe in justification my faith Would we have differences on baptism and things like that that we could debate?

01:03:48

Yes, but at least we'd have something we could debate on and that is scripture. So this is not an

01:03:54

Anglican hate fest, but Let's realize something Anglicanism has fractured a lot just over the past few decades

01:04:04

And of necessity most of us Anglicans, you know the the via media the middle way the

01:04:12

Church of England only way to hold together not have constant civil wars was to take the via media the middle way and You can only take that so far and The Archbishop of Canterbury the titular head of the worldwide

01:04:32

Anglican communion communion Has been going left left left left left left left for a long time and The church has been going left left left left left for a long time.

01:04:41

So women priests women bishops all the stuff that always comes with all of that stuff and So there has been a fracturing

01:04:55

Especially when it now homosexuality same -sex marriage all kinds of So there have been smaller groups that have developed in various places that are no longer under the direct control of Canterbury You know

01:05:13

Africa basically told Canterbury to go for an extended vacation off a cliff and So so I can't keep track of all of them

01:05:25

Of this Seminary anyways or the church. I forget which one was in the article is part of the

01:05:35

Anglican Church in North America and so They're better than the

01:05:42

Episcopalians Which are just if the Episcopalian Church was an airplane, it would have two left wings.

01:05:49

Okay Just wildly crazy leftist

01:05:56

So they're like now I can't do that but it's still a mixed bag and and they're trying to hold the line on some things but Here's here's the point.

01:06:10

How come the great tradition didn't keep all that together? you know, you can you can pretend that all of your

01:06:21

Ecclesial ecclesiastical fixes really work, but we live in a fallen world and You can you can create a mess in any system.

01:06:30

You end up coming up with you want to so I don't

01:06:36

Know everything about this church The seminary other than I really question the wisdom of any seminary

01:06:44

That hires a brand new convert to their perspective just because he's published books On theology and headed up PhD program at a

01:06:54

Baptist seminary That sounds to me more like continuing to pursue some type of great traditions scholarship

01:07:09

Movement than anything else That definitely is problematic

01:07:16

I think I think the Anglicans should be going yeah That's pretty fast.

01:07:22

Don't you think? Oh, we need to grab him for somebody else did Say so But I I hope this is as far as he goes

01:07:35

Now I think he I think he'll have a diminishing impact with amongst

01:07:43

Southern Baptists and Baptists as a whole But here's another question

01:07:50

Now let's say he stays Anglican great god bless him Like I said great

01:07:56

Anglicans. I hope he runs into some of the great Anglicans that I know and they can Be a positive impact

01:08:05

What about his students are the are the folks at Midwestern?

01:08:12

tracking Where the students he's had for the past eight years

01:08:19

Nine years however long he was there where they're going. I know of at least one that's converted and there may be many more converted

01:08:29

Roman Catholicism And I have his testimony and stuff. I never played it but there's there's at least one and yes, he specifically talks about the influence of Thomas Aquinas and The introduction to Thomas Aquinas through the teaching there and things like that It's not like you can teach church history without teaching

01:08:51

Thomas Aquinas, but when you say he was the greatest theologian ever lived and Then you utilize his categories

01:08:58

You are inviting your students to go. Well, I should believe everything else you had to say If he was right on lesser issues you're telling me he was wrong on greater issues doesn't really make a lot of sense

01:09:11

But are they tracking? Who's gonna take over is?

01:09:17

Midwestern gonna return to its roots or continue this Flirtatious disastrous playing around with A Fascination for a great mind

01:09:35

Who started the wrong places? It'd be much better to go back the fascination of people who had a great love of Scripture and knowledge of Scripture or fidelity to Scripture Than anything else

01:09:52

But what's gonna happen to students? Is anybody ever, you know, ten years from now gonna go

01:09:58

This is this is what the impact was. I don't know. I Really don't know

01:10:04

But I do feel that Midwestern needs to respond to what he said about the SPC.

01:10:10

I Think that is sort of incumbent upon them But they're a Southern Baptist school

01:10:18

And the very fact they are a Southern Baptist school Pretty much tells me that There's not gonna be anything forthcoming at least not anything of any great substance.

01:10:36

So, um He talks about the seminary and some of the great scholars and things like that and he says

01:10:46

Trinity is committed to being classically Anglican as they like to say the seminary is unapologetically

01:10:52

Catholic and reformed Students are taught the Reformation but in a way that reclaims the one holy

01:11:01

Catholic and apostolic Church again Save this article

01:11:08

Mark these things down See what happens in the future But in a way that quote

01:11:18

Reclaims close quote the one holy Catholic and apostolic Church. What does that exactly that mean?

01:11:26

They're staying Kansas City He says that moving forward.

01:11:31

I have much peace now that I'm out of the SPC now. Here's Here's the real reason for his conversion in my opinion.

01:11:39

Okay, this this this paragraph Moving forward. I have much peace now that I'm out of the

01:11:44

SPC I experienced an angry fundamentalism in the SPC. I'm sure He would include me in that even though I'm not in the

01:11:52

SPC One based out of a deep -seated fear Now, let me just stop there.

01:12:00

There is a deep -seated fear in fundamentalism as a whole But that wasn't what brought

01:12:08

Opposition to what he was trying to do at Midwestern continuing believing in classical theology

01:12:17

Publishing in classical theology brought on no little harassment or harassment if you wish to use that pronunciation.

01:12:27

I Finally realized it was not possible to do true academic work in Classical theology within the

01:12:34

SPC without fear of constant inquisition Don't ask me why my students are drawing pictures of Thomas Aquinas Don't ask me why six out of ten of the recommended books in the bookstore to be read by our students or by Roman Catholics That's an inquisition actually, it's the

01:12:57

Catholics that did the Inquisition did I Kept telling myself otherwise, but at last

01:13:03

I came to see the obvious. I Care most about what is being taught.

01:13:09

They care most about who is doing the teaching That's Not true

01:13:16

It's not about who is doing the teaching. It is about what is being taught and anyone

01:13:27

Who is concerned with this quote -unquote classical theology emphasis because that gets to be defined by whoever's using the term

01:13:35

But the concern we've had about that. It's not about who It is about what and what it means

01:13:44

The latter is toxic for scholarship. Oh, yes When coupled with the second -degree separation mentality it violates the academics duty to engage people of different ideas look

01:13:59

We engage people of different ideas all the time It doesn't mean that we have to sacrifice the foundational issues that allow us to recognize where they are

01:14:08

Presuppositionally when you have to separate from everyone who does not first become like us

01:14:15

You might as well dig a grave for the intellectual life So this is this is

01:14:20

I think the real issue he wants to continue publishing in classical theology and He thinks he's found the place to do it in Anglicanism and maybe he has

01:14:32

Maybe he'll be perfectly happy here Maybe this is where he will stay

01:14:38

But here's the problem The next sentence is my pilgrimage into classical theology has led me to conclude that Anglicanism is the most beautiful Representation of classical

01:14:50

Christianity That is not an objective statement

01:14:57

He himself has led me to conclude so study of classical theology should take you out of any

01:15:07

Baptist expression is that not what you're saying to your students if if a if students leave

01:15:15

Midwestern and Become Anglican or something else. Um, is that not? what he's saying here and What is the fundamental reason

01:15:27

My pilgrimage into classical theology has led me to conclude conclude that Catholicism is the most beautiful representation of classical

01:15:34

Christianity. Would he even try? To argue against that statement

01:15:41

Could he even try on? What foundation on what basis we're not given anything in here?

01:15:52

Nothing that he says in here would tell us what that's all about Um so There was one more thing here.

01:16:04

Yeah, okay. So last thing here. It was actually just above this but right before he started talking about the church and seminary

01:16:15

Last thing I'll cover. I know we've gone a little long but What a comfort to tell our kids The way we are worshipping is how

01:16:23

Christians have worshipped across history It's really really old You are participating in the church universe, okay

01:16:38

This is the constant attraction of all of those the liturgical churches the reason that Rome does this argument better is

01:16:53

That Eastern Orthodoxy Is old but it's

01:16:58

Seventh eighth century old so there's been a lot of development by them

01:17:04

Now Rome doesn't pretend in Reality To do it the way they did in the 7th and 8th century.

01:17:13

There's been more development. They're not actually giving you a more primitive form But their authority claims allow them to say yeah, this is how it's always been done.

01:17:24

So when Pope Francis dies This is the Church of 2 ,000 years blah blah blah blah and you have to believe it because they're telling you

01:17:35

Reality is that's not how it was done. There were no popes back then in this sense There wasn't any

01:17:40

College of Cardinals and all the rest of this kind of stuff. There's been massive development But hey, you just slap some

01:17:45

Newman on it you know, it's just development and we have the authority in the in the in the

01:17:51

Pope and that's how God wanted things and look at how Anglicanism is splitting up and The reason it's splitting up is because you have rejected the most important part of the great tradition, which is the papacy itself

01:18:07

So I understand why you want to be able city people.

01:18:12

Oh, man It's really really old. You're participating in the church universal and you know, what saddens me is

01:18:23

That dr. Barrett doesn't think he could have told his children this before What what defines?

01:18:35

Worship in the New Testament Church Is it all these because he went through all he described the the liturgy at the church he's going to and you know the processions and the chanting and and all that stuff which could not have happened in the primitive church you

01:18:54

Didn't have buildings In that processions you're hiding from the Romans So it's not really really really old

01:19:02

It could be old but it's not really really old When you go to what the

01:19:09

Apostles gave us What gives you the comfort to know that you are participating in the church universal it is?

01:19:26

hearing The voice of Christ in his word it is obeying the commands of Christ Baptizing them the name of the

01:19:39

Father Son Holy Spirit do this Lord's Supper Until I return so you're obeying

01:19:49

Christ. You're doing baptism. You're doing the Lord's Supper Not another five sacraments beyond that and then you're gathering with the people you're singing hymns to Christ as to God Philippians 2 and You are seeking

01:20:09

To hear God's words spoken Through elders

01:20:17

Presbyters same office Called to handle and teach the whole Council of God so when you sit and You work to do the work of worship that is to be exposed to the

01:20:32

Word of God and changed by the Word of God, that's when you are participating in the church universal and You can have beautiful liturgy

01:20:48

My experience is that often takes away from the time that could be dedicated to the proclamation of God's Word Maybe not so much as Pope Francis last year said that any sermon over eight minutes is too long

01:21:06

But still church history tells us that the more ornate the liturgy became the more decentralized and Shallow proclamation of the

01:21:18

Word became and so I Can tell my grandkids that there are differences between the way we worship today and the early

01:21:32

Christians did One of the main ones is that we're not worried about Roman soldiers breaking through the doors to drag us all the way and feed us the lines

01:21:42

But when we partake of the supper We're doing what Christ commanded they did that we do that when we see baptisms

01:21:53

We're doing what Christ commanded they did that we do that and when we sit and open the same word and Study the same sentences the same paragraphs the same messages

01:22:06

And honestly ask God to conform us to his image in light of those things we are

01:22:16

Worshiping as true Christians worshipped across history and it's very very old and We are participating in the church universal and when that happens in a sound

01:22:30

Anglican Church They too are part of the church universal but When folks come along and Say well, you know, we need to hear other voices.

01:22:48

We need to hear the great tradition. That's when things go wonky, so Interesting development a

01:22:59

Lot of people said well you called that one and I did and it won't be the it won't be the end

01:23:06

It won't be the last of these. In fact, it could trigger some others That way that they may not be as well -known

01:23:16

But the fact matter is if you want to get ahead In classical theology

01:23:25

The way to do it is to be in Roman Catholic Church Or at least in a

01:23:34

Acceptably liturgical Protestant Church. You ain't gonna get there as a as a Baptist and And probably not even as a real true

01:23:42

Bible -believing Presbyterian either but We'll see how all that goes Okay.

01:23:49

All right There you go the entire program almost an hour and a half just on That but look we've dealt with this subject for years

01:24:01

We've dealt with it consistently. I think I Think I read his article fairly

01:24:07

And I think I brought up the the issues that are the most important and That still need some answers.

01:24:16

I think and I'm looking forward to Midwesterns non -response I'm sorry

01:24:23

They need to respond but they're Southern Baptist and there are certain rules in the

01:24:28

Southern Baptist Convention And I think they'd be violating one of the many many many many many unstated rules to actually respond to any of this stuff and But it'd be nice if they would pick one of their professors and Give a full -throated response on baptism, for example

01:24:47

Or things like that. That would be great Rich is going. Yeah ain't gonna happen and not anytime soon.

01:24:56

No, probably not. Okay alright, so real quickly home for about a month and And then

01:25:06

I wish I had a debate to announce but we haven't gotten the one guy we've been talking to to commit what we do have a

01:25:15

Dialogue, so it's not gonna be debate, but we do have a dialogue with a progressive Christian in Nashville, and I think

01:25:24

I Think I already saw a graphic. We need to grab the graphic good Marlins moderating it.

01:25:30

So We need to get that up and That'll be early on Maybe later that week a real debate in Tullahoma if we can

01:25:43

Well, look I'll go ahead and tell you we're trying to get Dale Tuggy to debate and You're all like you mean the boring

01:25:50

Unitarian? well, yeah, I I'll just honestly tell Dale he needs to speak with Like like he's not selling insurance, but that's just maybe the way is

01:26:03

I don't know But we're trying to set up a debate on the prologue of John I'd said

01:26:10

John 1 1 but I I Understand you can't just isolate a single verse. That's duh. So prologue of John does the prologue of John teach the idea of Christ and Jeremiah Nortier is the one who's trying to get it set up, but So If any

01:26:26

Unitarians out there who view him as your great champion Shoot him an email or something say hey

01:26:32

This is a great opportunity But we need to get this done within like the next week or so I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be setting up a debate, you know two weeks before we're supposed to be there

01:26:42

No one can travel Not insufficient preparation time stuff like that. So we're trying to get that set up and then

01:26:49

I'll be with Chris Arnzen For the pastor's conference the pastor's free luncheon and then preaching at his church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania which is really interesting to be going to Carlisle because that was a

01:27:06

That city was a big part of my youth when I was about eight or nine years of age, so to be going back there is intriguing

01:27:19

Let's just put that way. So anyways, we'll be we'll be with Chris of iron sharpens iron Doing that kind of thing at the end of the end of the trip and then it's all the way back across the

01:27:29

United States and I'll be speaking at two of the oh, I keep forgetting this two of the road trip at a women org churches you sent this stuff in and Pastors have contacted me and I had to change the route.

01:27:52

It was before I made reservations. So it didn't make much of a difference But we're gonna be with Naomi O 'Brien.

01:27:58

Well, I've talked to you a number of times his fight with cancer and stuff like that on the way out

01:28:05

So I'm gonna go from Tullahoma. I'm gonna go more north than I need to but that's not too far out of the way actually up into Ohio to Be at their church then the stuff with Chris and then on the way back

01:28:20

I'm gonna be going through Wytheville For a Reformed Baptist Church in that area and They're both gonna be a

01:28:29

Monday night, I'm gonna be Exhausted Not well -dressed.

01:28:36

I Shouldn't smell and it's but but but this is this is what we do.

01:28:41

We hope yeah, rich Hey, I've got a perfectly functional shower in the in the RV and so It's really a nice shower and believe me

01:28:52

I've been in a few RV showers now, and this is the biggest nicest one ever been in so I'm very thankful for it.

01:28:59

Anyway so we're doing some other churches along the way as part of the traveling thing and Because that's that's how you do what we're doing after that.

01:29:08

I'm gonna be so blitzed. I'm just gonna try to get home and not die so But what that means is that's a over 5 ,000 mile trip a lot of diesel fuel a lot of death if you know anything about death.

01:29:22

Oh, I hate But everybody just take the system off I can't

01:29:29

I live in Phoenix I'm not gonna break the law anyway Once we get her back

01:29:37

We need new awnings on the unit we want to replace two of the three air conditioners with Technology has advanced since 2020 and living in Phoenix, Arizona You've got to have a seat and you've got to have a seat that can blow cold air

01:29:57

So we need to replace two of the AC units And we want to replace the underlayment

01:30:06

Which is you know, basically it's just the not really plastic not really rubber either

01:30:11

It's sort of somewhere in between it's this layer. That's what Corrugated plastic type stuff that's on the bottom of the unit it's what keeps all the road grime and stuff from getting up on the wires and everything else and Down below your floor.

01:30:27

Well, we had to have it tacked back up a couple days ago because it was starting to come down and I want to put a decent barrier down there.

01:30:39

It has some insulation in it because Both in cold weather That's when it's most important but in hot weather to having at least some level of our you know

01:30:50

Our five our ten something Insulation down there. It makes a huge difference and helps those air conditioners that it's a big unit

01:30:58

It's 40 40 feet long. And so those ACs have some air to have to cool down So if you want to help with those of those projects

01:31:11

Travel fund today. Oh bin org. That's what pays the gas and the tires and all that neat fun stuff

01:31:18

I don't want to get a flat tire Something changing a tire and something that big ain't something

01:31:25

I want to be doing sitting next to the road if you know what I mean so help us keep rolling down the road to do these types of things and We very very very much appreciate all of that Thank you very much for listening the program today