Leadership Series - I — George Verwer

I would like you to turn to page 51, by the way, most of your manuals have one or two chapters missing, but I want to talk this morning about the ultimate aims and goals of OM as a fellowship. I think also this was an added chapter, this manual has been revised and reprinted many many times, and one of the important things about this work in which we're involved is that it is growing, it is changing, the Word of God never changes, our understanding of it changes, our situation in life changes, and it may be that through this study together we will actually come up with some changes, even in the leadership manual.

Biblical Qualifications for Christian Leaders

Maybe before I look into this chapter, I could just read to you something from Timothy, which I think is very very important. There's a lot more good leadership material around now than when I first got involved in Christian leadership, which was when I was about 17, I guess, and we started a little group in our home area called the Christian Youth Committee, and sponsored film shows and other evangelistic activities, which led in that sort of mini-revival in the high school that I was attending, most of you I think know that story, and I especially recommend to you Oswald Saunders' book, Spiritual Leadership, and his second book, Paul the Leader.

But there's a lot of other good material now as well. First Timothy, chapter 3, it's a standard passage for leadership, but I think it is a good passage, and it's worth reading it again. This is a true saying, 1 Timothy 3, if a man desire the office of a bishop, an elder, in some translations, he desireth a good work.

A bishop, then, must be blameless, husband of one wife, self-controlled, sober-minded of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy of filthy lucre, money, but patient, not a brawler, not covetous, one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all brevity, for if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?

Not a novice, a recent convert, lest being lifted up with pride, he falls into condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must have a good report of them who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

In like manner, must the deacons be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy, again, of filthy lucre, money, holding the mystery of the faith in pure conscience, and let these also first be proved, then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

Even so, must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober-minded, faithful of all things, let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their own children and their own houses well, for they that have used the office of a deacon well, purchase to themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly, that if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness. God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the nations, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

What a great chapter. What a great chapter. Notice we have the requirements there for those called elders, and then we have requirements for those called deacons. And we often think, of course, of deacons as practical workers.

It may be that some of you will not become elders in your church, but it may be that you will become deacons. Of course, at this point you realize different churches teach different things about this.

I don't want to get into that, but you will remember that when they had difficulty in Acts chapter 6, and there was some contention, they decided that they must assign seven men of honest report and full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom who could be appointed over the business of the practical side of Christian work.

And then it tells about those men who were chosen. One of them, of course, ends up going out being martyred in an open air meeting. To be a leader in a fellowship like Operation Mobilization, it is incredibly important if you know the basics.

Once you're a leader, people expect you to be able to answer certain questions. They expect you to understand a little bit about the work. On the ship Dulas and Lagos, they just had, I think about ten hours, I just finished the tapes, ten hours basically just on how to communicate to prayer partners, to the constituency, to their friends.

Quite amazing tapes going into fine detail. These were main leaders of the ship and they were being asked to stand up and give their little two-minute opening thoughts. It was very interesting the way he approached this.

He's the president of the Wycliffe Bible Translators. He took Wycliffe from a very small movement in Australia, he's an Australian, and what he did there is quite amazing. Now he's the president. I know it's, in my own experience, such a great privilege to be able to, especially through cassette tape, listen to so many different people and learn from them.

One of the things he emphasized when you go to your church and you try to present the work of OM, how easy it is to miscommunicate. So easy. You're there standing in front of your church and you think, boy, this is going to really get them excited about OM, and actually they're getting turned off by the minute listening to someone who doesn't really have his act together in terms of communication.

I think it's very basic. If you want to communicate about OM, and many of you do, I realize it's difficult sometimes speaking here in Bromley because we have a wide range of people. There may be some that are planning to leave in September, there may be some only here for a month, and yet you're here this morning in a leadership training session.

But like so much in life, we can't fail to go down an important road simply because that road may not be as relevant for one as for another. I think most of you are in a place where these things will be helpful.

Even if you're not being trained for leadership, maybe it will help you understand. Maybe it will help you realize in a movement growing so fast as OM, what a desperate need we have for leaders. And you can't just throw people into this.

I might say, by the way, that a person's leadership before they come on OM is a factor in whether they're moved into responsibility in OM. Unfortunately, sometimes it's difficult to even find what experience people have had before they've come.

Some people, I think especially the British, are very shy to sort of put themselves before you know, I'm a leader. Other cultures, people are more willing to volunteer, and you might pray as right now, we're trying desperately to find the team leaders for the summer campaign.

And some summers, most summers, we have to put some people leading a team who have never led a team in their life, and they are scared. And some of them would have had far less experience than many of you.

If you end up on a team this summer, there's sort of an unwritten policy that we continually battle with, that people working in a headquarters operation try to get at least a month out on a team in the summer.

And I hope many of you will do this. It provides enormous balance. I think of one young man who most of his time in Bromley some years ago was really defeated in his Christian life. He just couldn't get his act together.

He banged from pillar to post spiritually. And I will tell you, he went that summer to Spain. And suddenly, because of the crisis situation, he was made the team leader. I will tell you, that young man, his life was completely revolutionized.

When he was in Bromley, his spiritual situation was so difficult that he had very serious psychosomatic illnesses. He would double over in pain, fall to the ground. And psychosomatic illnesses, you know, they're still very real at the time.

And through that experience that summer of discovering God could use him in a crisis to help lead this team, he had his life turned around. He went off OM. The Lord used him in a real way. He came back for a couple of years.

He was used of God in Asia. And lately, I've heard he's just getting married and pressing on in his spiritual walk. So you don't know what's ahead. I think some of you, when you get on a team this summer, will probably not be the main leader.

But because you've been on OM for a year, that leader is going to count on you to be a help. Not to be the vice president that pulls off a coup, as happened in one of Britain's Bible schools some years ago.

But as someone who can be a faithful man, faithful woman. To be an encourager, to help in some of the practical areas, to be able to maybe answer questions about certain things that that leader may not know.

OM’s Governance and Local Autonomy

Well, let's take a look at this last chapter which sets the pace for the manual and could have been written really as the first chapter. It's called Ultimate Aims and Goals. If you want to have an understanding of the OM Fellowship, you must understand that each country, each country is a semi-autonomous unit within OM.

And the final authority for that particular country legally is the board of directors in that country. On a practical level, it's the board of directors and the leaders of that country, and especially the country coordinator.

They must work for consensus. They must get unity on what they are going to do. They are then supposed to let us, in Europe it would be Jonathan, the area leader, and sometimes myself, it depends on how big an issue it was, but they're supposed to let us know, you know, what they're doing, and a little idea of where the money is going to come from.

The more the money can come from within their own country, the less problem they're probably going to have with us because we allow a lot of freedom to develop different strategies. So in OM we have some very basic aims and goals and policies and practices, and by the way, some of you thinking about joining a mission society and another organization, even a secular organization, because we want to train people for secular work as much as we want to train them for so-called Christian work.

We don't like the term. Anyway, and it's my belief that many secular firms take spiritual principles and put them into practice sometimes better than the church down the road. It is quite an amazing study, but I think whether you're going on to another fellowship or a secular company, to know what are their aims, what are their goals, and it will help you.

Let's just read the first part of this. This chapter is in some ways the most important of all. Summarizes our practical principles and goals as God has made them increasingly clear through the years.

First, let us state that which we never want this movement to become. We start off with a few things that we don't want to be, and then it will help us clarify what we do want to be. Now, keep in mind that since this was written, we could rewrite the whole thing in different terminology and come out with the same goals.

And maybe you want to do a Ken Taylor, you know, have a living leadership manual and rewrite this in what you feel may be more acceptable terminology. Number one, another mission board or denomination.

There are many reasons for this. Many of us believe that the local church is the one that should send forth, pray, and care for missionaries. When the local church failed to do this, God raised up, God raised up, we help, looks like a spelling error, and cooperate with these groups whenever possible.

But a new board is not needed. Now, this already, some leaders probably within OM wouldn't agree with. I'm not sure I agree with it totally myself anymore, because Donald McGovern came along and pointed out from the book of Acts, is it Acts 12 or Acts 13?

I can turn to it in a jiffy, Acts 13, that it wasn't necessarily the church in Antioch that sent forth Paul and Barnabas, but it was five men. And he really got us thinking. And because we've got this criticism that God only raised up, and I actually used to say this, so it's just criticism coming back to me, in my early days, trying to wrestle with why did God even bring into being OM in the first place?

And I tended to think it was because the church had failed, and because in the book of Acts we see quite a range of ways that God is working, that the Lord raised up what today are classified as parachurch organizations.

I'm no longer convinced of that argument. I have to argue against myself. It does seem that way back in the book of Acts, I talk about this on a series of tapes on the local church, tape one and two, which is part of a leadership seminar over in Belgium.

But it does seem that within the book of Acts, you have the two units. You have the local church, and you have the teams, like our team working in Turkey. Their job is to plant the church. Now, the greater problem is for units like STL.

They didn't have a big publishing, printing, cassette operation in the New Testament. And the greater problem is for things like our audiovisual operation. This kind of thing, gospel recordings, Christian radio, publishing, very much are sort of parachurch.

They're parallel with the church. And within OM, you have many things. You have that which is more easily defined as parachurch. You have other sections of OM, like the church planting team in France, the church planting team in Bangladesh, which really is very clearly the extension, the arm of the church.

Again, you're playing with words, but words are important. And when you attempt to explain OM to your local church, these things are very important. I was speaking to a group of pastors just about a week ago and showing them how OM is an extension of the local church, the arms of the local church.

And it made a lot of sense, it seemed, to most of them. We don't want to become a mission board. You see, you have people even within OM say, oh, we're a mission society. Why, you know, why do we pretend that we're not?

Maybe they've never studied what a mission society is. Almost all mission societies have a board. Every new missionary stands before that board. After many applications, after all kinds of paperwork, screening, other interviews, he stands before that board and that board makes a final decision.

Now, understand, we are not against this. Some feel that we should move in this direction. Like most live things, there's controversy. But up to now, we look toward the local church to be the screening, preparing, interviewing board.

It hasn't worked 100%. Some of the young people who come on OM don't even have a home church. They got a recommendation from some other Christian leader in that area. We have allowed that, especially for people coming into the early stages, the training aspect of the work.

But we always keep our goal. Our goal is young people, especially long-term in OM, sent by their church or assembly. This is one of the reasons we have very close unity with assemblies and sometimes churches that support no other interdenominational or missionary agency.

And it's because we put a lot of the responsibility back on the church. Now, some churches don't want that. One of the reasons we have moved in Britain with a lot of our new movements into a very authoritarian.

By the way, if you ever think that OM is a little authoritarian, I'd love to get some feedback from you, because I don't think you know what is going on in the church. This is a free-for-all compared to some churches today.

I know there are certain aspects of OM that give the appearance of authoritarian, because of course the whole concept was that people would not come on OM unless they really believe in these principles.

Once we have lost this in OM, we're lost. Once we come on OM, as some young people I met in Bible school thinking, how much can I get away with, and how many of the rules can I bend, or how much this or that can I do that really I'm not supposed to do.

Once we're in that, we're lost. You say, well, I think OM is partly lost. I agree. I agree. It's not as easy 25 years later. And there is a generation gap. But the initial concept of OM was that people were so motivated to serve God, to get into His Word, to win souls, to evangelize the world, that a lot of these little policies that we created only as we were on the run, they were not that important.

Because our motivation, our goals, our aims were pressing us forward, and a lot of those things we were just willing to lay aside for a year. That's why once you don't have the burden and the vision and the goals of OM, it becomes legalistic.

There's no other way. But when you have the vision, the burden, and you have that set of goals ahead of you, it's not a legalism. That which was once a legalism is a joy. It just helps things to be done decently and in order.

It gives you some railway tracks that you can move the train on. Have you ever seen a train going across a field without tracks? It's difficult. And the policies of OM, some of the basic so-called rules sometimes just provide the railway lines to help things run smoother.

So we don't want to just become another mission board. I don't like the word just. I withdraw that because we praise God for these mission boards. That's their calling. We know there are different structures.

There are different ways of doing things. One of the difficulties of our task in OM is that we have to prepare people for totally different kinds of organizations. Some of you may go back to a Brethren Assembly.

They have a very different way of doing things than the Baptists. Some of you are going back to the Anglicans. They have a very different way of doing things than a little Pentecostal house group down the road.

So how can we keep it open enough to prepare you for a wide range of things ahead? Of course, people thought we would become another denomination. Fifteen years ago, some people were afraid of us. And I think we have proven that OM will not become a denomination.

Because even the churches we've planted, I can't even tell you where they are. I know there's 15 churches in France. I can't even tell you where they are. I should because I should be praying for them more.

But whenever OM plants a church, within a year or two, we are gone. There is no structural link between our international office here and any church anywhere in the world. There is no structural link.

There's no hierarchy. They are units or new churches linked with other churches in their town, or there may be a whole new movement. Now, I cannot say in the future that as a result of OM's work, there will never be a new denomination born.

What does the word denomination mean? A lot of new groups don't like the word denomination. They use it to sort of speak negatively about, you know, all the rest of the churches. And they start their own structure, the Real New Testament structure.

Are they a denomination or not a denomination? If they have a headquarters, they have a hierarchy, including apostles. They have films. They have summer conferences. They have structure, bank accounts, leadership training, you name it.

And they start new local churches in which people are no longer involved in any other church, but only that church baptizing, breaking bread, et cetera, et cetera. Are they a denomination? We're just playing with words.

In fact, one strong group in this country just had 15 churches pull out from the main mother saying, we're leaving because it's becoming a denomination. Now, of course, they've created another denomination where there are 15 churches.

And, you know, when these groups do this, because they don't have a name, they don't want to have a name because that would be a denomination. You know what they get called? They get named after the person who brings the split.

That's why in early Brethrenism, you have each group named. You have Kelly Brethren, you have Taylorite Brethren. They won't take a name, so we give them a name. And in London, you got 52 exclusive Brethren groups.

And they would all have different roots. In India, one of the groups refused to take on a name in its early days. The movement that was started by Bucksingh, everybody called Bucksingh Fellowships. It just became known all over the world.

Finally, he decided to change. He even wrote up a constitution. Whoa, that's a sign of being a denomination. Constitution. And he called it Hebron Fellowship. That was the name of his central headquarters church in Hyderabad.

So now some people do refer to it as a Hebron Fellowship. Interesting, isn't it? Number two, a mere opportunity for Christian service. Perhaps this is one of the great dangers of OM today, isn't it? We find we do have people come, it's an opportunity to serve the Lord.

OM as More Than a Temporary Service Opportunity

And they always wanted to have a little opportunity to serve the Lord. Now, in one sense, there's nothing wrong with that, is there? As long as there are other things there. But in OM, we don't want to be just an opportunity to serve the Lord.

There are already many movements before we were ever born where you can serve the Lord. And we felt, though, in a sense, that is part of the time and the program within OM. We want to be much more by God's grace.

Number three, a literature distribution agency. A literature distribution agency. In early days, literature was such a major factor in our work that we were immediately tagged as a literature distribution agency.

It's amazing how our work evolves. And in the early days, there was not this. I'm going back to early, early days now. Mexico. There wasn't such a concept of a training program. There was more the concept of revolution.

A band of young people who really wanted to see the world reach for Christ. Realized they had a lot to learn. So the training aspect was there from the beginning. And wanted to get overseas and reach the unreached.

The emphasis on reaching the unreached from the earliest roots of OM was a major, major driving force. Often, we didn't know exactly what we were doing. A little band of three of us going to Mexico and then five of us going back to Mexico.

And believe me, those people weren't really any different than most of you sitting here right now. They were not a super spiritual crowd. We had tremendous problems on our team. Some of us couldn't get on with each other.

One of them eventually thought I was not on the first team. That was very short. Just Dale, Roton and Walter and myself. We had our struggles. But the next year was a whole summer. And it was more organized.

That's when it was really born. And we had disagreements. We got ill. I had the amoeba. Another fellow on the team fell in love with a Mexican girl. This was the birth of the social policy. We didn't have any social policy.

He thought I was a little Hitler. I thought he was a bit lazy. Why wasn't he going out in distribution? He was in his room lifting his barbells. He was into this exercise business. It was quite chaotic.

The Mexican who joined us, we were only beginning to know about his difficulties. We were a weak group of young people who were just learning, learning, learning how to walk with Jesus. And so, you know, when there's problems on your team and things begin to go wrong, don't suddenly think, ah, we're backstreet and we're departed from the real vision of operation mobilization.

Because people haven't changed that much. Not in 4 ,000 years, really. Of course, changes are there. We need to be sensitive to that. So we got tagged as a Christian literature distribution agency. We opened six bookshops in the first couple of years in Mexico.

I started a correspondence course. We always in our prayer letters emphasize the number of tracks and a million pieces of literature. Of course, literature distribution agency. And that stream, that early stream of what OM was in 1958, 59 and 60.

That stream runs directly into the STL warehouse. STL is one of the main literature distribution agencies within OM. But we hope, as we indicate here in this chapter, it will never only be that. That it will also be these other things which we'll come to in a minute.

The rest of OM, of course, no longer has their main. Literature is a main tool to use in every situation we're in. You know, even among the Afghan refugees, we use literature. We even use literature on how to be healthy.

Amazing literature we've been involved in publishing for the Afghans. How to attack worms. This is basic. We never thought of this in the early days. But we do have some Christian literature there as well.

OM’s Distinctive Identity Beyond Institutionalism

Then number four, an institution. Someone recently reminded Dale Roton that that which God is able to use often begins with a man. Then it goes and becomes a movement. Then an organization. Then a monument.

Something along that line. And I think most people realize that OM is now in the movement stage. We want to be a spiritual movement. Again, a lot depends on definition of these words, right? But we sense a spiritual movement.

It's thrusting forward. It's going someplace. We're still pioneers, not settlers. We distribute toasters, little leaflet. I'm breaking the fallow ground. I read that to the leaders at our main leaders conference a couple of years ago.

And I will tell you, the Holy Spirit moved upon our hearts to break up some of that hard ground. If you get a chance to read that, I think it's in Pathways to Power by A .W. Tozer. I'm sure it will minister to your heart.

We don't want to just settle into institutionalism. More buildings, more offices, more and more structure, more and more committees, more and more bureaucracy. Pretty soon to find a man in an evangelism would be such an unusual event that you would bring out your video camera because everybody has to spend most of their time committee-izing, discussing, planning, often things that never do take place.

Anyway, it's a difficult area to maintain a balance. And we want to be careful because there are Christian institutions that are being wonderfully used of God. So again, everything we say here, you know, it has to be brought into balance.

But I think it's important to understand that simply because we don't want to go in a particular direction does not mean we are condemning what they are doing. It means we want to follow our distinctives.

God over these years has given OM some distinctives. We're going to be talking about that in these three days. We don't want to lose those distinctives. It's not easy because there's pressure often to copy other organizations, enormous pressure.

But you get one group that wants to copy this organization, another group wants to copy that organization. There are about a thousand major, some of them small, Christian organizations in the world, far more than that.

Which one do we copy? We can just be blown apart by all kinds of different efforts to copy other organizations and in the process lose our own distinctives. There is a sense where every Christian movement must find its own way.

It must build on its own foundations, not other people's foundations. And with those foundations, there will be the strengths and the weaknesses. And as we see the weaknesses and we're hurt by the weaknesses and we want to remove those weaknesses from our foundation, we will find it difficult because the one building block of weaknesses will be glued with perhaps superglue to the other building block of strength.

It is not easy in Christian work to just simply separate the weaknesses in a movement from the strong points in the movement. And anything you can do to help me on that, I would be very grateful. Because we know there are weaknesses in OM.

We know there are things we need to get rid of. But some of them seem to be tightly glued with certain strengths and we don't want to lose that beautiful solid building block with that broken building block that may be glued together.

Do you know they say in some places it's more difficult to demolish a building than to build a new one? I have a close friend who's in demolition. In fact, I think he blew up that roller coaster in that film with...

What's his name? Forget him. But it's a film where a huge roller coaster was blown up in the film. I think Smokey and the Bandit rides again or something. My friend was telling me about this fantastic demolition job.

He then flew to South Africa to do a demolition job. Huge smokestack. It fell the wrong way. Caused quite a lot of damage. So the demolition business is difficult. And we want to demolish a few things within O .M.

But we don't want the smokestack to fall on our heads as it comes down. So we don't want to just be an institution. And we hope we can say that without condemning institutions. And then number five. This is the most grotesque.

Avoiding Pharisaical Spiritual Pride

We don't want to be a band of Pharisees. Every spiritual movement has within it the seeds of its own destruction. Every spiritual movement has built in it the seeds of its own destruction. Because every spiritual movement is made up of people.

And people have potential to be creative and to destroy. To one minute be standing in the streets giving out Christian literature. To drunkards passing by. The next minute to be one of those drunkards.

And it's not an easy thing to keep a movement alive and fresh. And all that God wants it to be. Very, very difficult. If I had known how difficult it would be 25 years ago. I think I would have just joined the Salvation Army.

Or some other movement that I admired. Because I just never dreamed of the pressures and the problems. Of leadership in Christian work. And trying to keep something alive and fresh. And to try to see what's written in these books.

Calvary Road. We would see Jesus. Take my life. Give up your small ambitions. Why Revival Tarry? Think of how many copies of that book we distributed. I think it's going to stand up against us on the judgment day, that book.

Maybe with Ravenhill right behind me. It gives me the... You know, I don't know how to say it. Because that book is strong. That book is strong. And, you know, I just know that we're not living up to all that we find in there.

Or power through prayer. Or personal revival. I'm not even living up to Hunger for Reality or the Literature of Angelism manual. And it's easy in Christian work with our high ideals and goals to end up very much depressed and condemning ourselves.

Beware of accusing people or yourself of being a hypocrite. It's a very subtle thing. There is a sense, if we're really drawing the lines closely, in which we're all hypocrites. None of us live up to all that we have said and preached and shared.

Not one of us. Only Jesus Christ himself ever did that. And so when you start thinking of people as hypocrites, maybe you ought to let us know where, you know, where do you draw the line? Are you saying that you have no hypocritical areas in your life?

Maybe you'd come and autograph my Bible. I ought to have a special section for those that know 100 that there's never any inconsistency or hypocrisy in their lives. We at times do behave a little bit like Pharisees.

Subconscious, perhaps without realizing. That a group of super spiritual, know-it-all, so-called dedicated disciples standing apart and thinking that others should be like them. You know, I'm glad that was written many years ago.

Many years ago. Because I think the Lord did show us, right from the beginning, our own weaknesses. Did begin to teach us something about esteeming others better than ourselves. And it's because of that teaching that many have been able to live, to leave OM, even after having a very fulfilling time on OM, and join other groups and other movements, and be used in those movements and those groups.

That is very encouraging to me. Because I notice in some places, that people, they get taught in such a way that it's very difficult to make any transition from that group to a new group. So in a sense, it's good that you've got a few negative things about OM.

That's great. In another way, of course, as a human being, I, with my ideals and goals, like to see people more positive. And that will still be my goal, to try to make it more positive. I know I don't come here this week with a main goal to make you more negative.

Some of you will have that without any teaching from me. But I've noticed how God uses the negative factors. Because when they have left OM, and they got into something else that was negative, and everything has its negatives, they were a little more ready for it.

And there are some, Peter Conlon used this term this week, really helped me, it's a term I haven't used before, that some people have a very romantic view of what Operation Mobilization is. Have you ever heard that term?

Very romantic view. I had a letter from someone like that. And he really thought OM was sort of a combination of Hudson Taylor and C .T. Studd, Amy Carmichael, and the Book of Acts, of course, all rolled into one.

And of course, if someone has a romantic view of OM, and they come and live in Bromley, they're in for the shock of their life. This is very salty here, isn't it? Very earthy around here. You're praising the Lord, and a pile of books falls on your head because someone on the other side is pushing in the wrong direction.

Lots of very down-to-earth things happen here. You park your car in the wrong place, and suddenly there, Gerry Davey or the local police department are standing there looking at you. No longer the leader is your own age, you know, some 19-year-old person who you can just, you know, take aside.

But, you know, rather middle-aged gentleman with, you know, grown-up daughters. Who knows what new image I will take now. That I have people coming to me already calling me grandpops, you know. I mean, what are you insinuating by that?

What do you think can happen in two days? So let's, you know, let's be patient. Because we got at least another 10 months or a year, as far as my understanding of these things. So we don't want to just be a band of Pharisees.