Sin in the Camp - Part 4: How to Handle Church Discipline — Shane Idleman

Matthew 18 and the Purpose of Church Discipline

So, here we go, Matthew 18, if you have your Bibles, Matthew 18, verse 15. And for those of you who have not been here, we've been talking about sin in the camp. Sin in the camp and church discipline.

How do you handle sin in the camp? How do you handle sin that's going on in the church? And we looked at two different extremes. On one extreme is, you go get them, Shane. Let's get all those sinners.

Well, most of us would be in trouble, right? There's a process here. No, it's not go get them, it's how can we restore somebody, how can we help them. But then the other side is what we're actually seeing a lot more of, is don't say anything.

You see somebody caught in sin or doing different things and they're actually enjoying it, they're flaunting it. And the church says, I don't want to upset anybody. I don't want to upset them. But we have to remember, we're responsible to what God says in His Word.

My primary responsibility is to God and His Word. And that sometimes offends people, doesn't it? That will, people will not like that. So we have to find the middle, the whole point of church discipline.

The whole point of this topic is, what have we been talking about? Restoration. Restoration, we lovingly confront sin in the hopes of restoring somebody. And we did part one, part two, part three, and this is the final part tonight, part four.

And this is more specific on church discipline. And what church discipline is, in a nutshell, is when a person has a consistent and persistent pattern of sin that is unrepentant. They could care less, they're not going to repent.

And that person goes to them. We bring maybe a couple elders or leadership or people, two or three witnesses go. And we talk to them, say, listen, this is hurting your family. This is hurting the church.

There's people who care for you and love you. You've got to make some changes. This is serious now. We're involving other people. And if they say, well, I don't care. Doesn't matter. Then you've got to up it a little bit and bring it to the church.

And let the church lovingly confront that person. Now, how does that look? Well, I'm glad you asked because we're going to talk about that. But this is a good point to remind you, or a good time to remind you, that there's not a one-size-fits-all approach.

We're not going to have a list of, you know, do this in this situation, do this in this situation. That's why a lot of prayer goes into it, a lot of waiting on the Lord, a lot of looking at what does God's Word say.

It says we're often not in a hurry. If you're in a hurry to rebuke or in a hurry to administer church discipline, often the heart might not be right. However, there are exceptions to that, are there not?

There are exceptions. When there's sin in the camp that's blatant and obvious, I gave some illustrations in the past, and I don't have to give those again tonight. But there's times when you do need to move quickly.

It's very obvious you need to move quickly. There's nothing to pray about when the wife is bringing her boyfriend to church while the husband's at home. Right? I mean, that's going to be addressed pretty quick.

But there's other things that can take time as you wait on God. So where we left off was Matthew 18, verse 15. Moreover, if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.

If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, then take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he refuses to hear them, then tell it to the church.

But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. And let me remind you that Jesus Christ is saying this. This is Jesus saying this. A loving rebuke is definitely sometimes needed.

And many of you who have been brought back to the Lord by a loving rebuke know exactly what I'm talking about. Because here's what happens. In my life, too, in all of our lives, if we continue in a pattern that's not pleasing to the Lord, and we only have cheerleaders and no coaches, when are we ever going to turn back?

If nobody says anything, finances are going good, God's not orchestrating difficult circumstances, hey, I'm all that and a bag of chips and I'm not being confronted, and nobody says anything because they don't want to upset, that person often will continue.

It's not until somebody grabs them and says, wait a minute, do you realize you're going in the wrong direction? That often plants a seed. And I'll tell you nine times out of ten, they're not very receptive.

They're not very happy when they're being confronted. But you've planted the seed. That's all God calls us to do is plant that seed. So the second step we talked about last week, if he will not hear you, take with you two or three witnesses.

Now that does not mean you go to somebody, you go get witnesses the next day. He does not hear you tells me there's a period of time there in which you wait and you watch. What are you watching for? He will not hear you.

There's no change. He will not hear you. Hear means there's no change in his attitude and his actions. And that sometimes can take a little bit of time. And by bringing two or three witnesses, now the offender realizes the seriousness of their sin.

And if he refuses to hear them, then you tell it to the church. And Jesus goes on to say, let me read that again. But if he refuses to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. And whatever you loose on earth will be loose in heaven. Now it begs the question, how do we handle this in light of Jesus' teaching on loving your enemies?

Does it seem like he's saying one thing and doing another? Wait a minute, treat him like a heathen and tax collector. But then earlier we learned in Matthew that he says to love your enemies. Well, always remember this.

Loving Enemies Without Enabling Sin

Loving somebody does not mean enabling them. See, I can discontinue fellowship and I can discontinue my friendship and still love them. How many parents love their children and they say, but Johnny, you're not living under this roof anymore unless that lifestyle changes.

You need to find somebody else, somewhere else to live. Dad, can you pay this? No, I'm not going to enable you anymore. I'm not enabling this addiction. I'm not enabling that lifestyle. I'm done being enabling.

I love you too much to watch you continue to destroy your life. So to me, the context is everything. An enemy is somebody who's our enemy. There's plenty out there. And Jesus is saying, listen, treat them with respect.

Treat them with dignity. Turn the other cheek. If they take something, give something. And you love them. But the context of this is actually true love is saying, I love you enough to tell you I can't continue to allow you to be friends with me.

And this is not the time to take somebody to the movies, right, and go golfing with them as if nothing happened. This is a time where we lovingly confront, and that is genuine love. I don't know if it'll, you know, matter.

I didn't really have this in the sermon notes, but I just thought of this as I'm talking about this issue. On this big issue right now that you're seeing in the news, gay marriage and what the nation calling good, what God calls not good.

And everybody wants to remain silent. We don't want to offend everybody. We don't want to upset those struggling. And I want to remind people that that's not genuine love. If you genuinely love somebody, you want to lovingly warn and encourage them that Christ is the answer.

So all those, and I talk to pastors all the time. Well, not all the time, not in our area. But you'll read their blogs and different things like, well, I'm just, I don't want to say anything about this issue.

We don't want to offend. We just want to love them. That's not loving them. That's a coward. You want to save face. You want to build a ministry, and you don't want to upset anybody because you're worried about your reputation.

That's not love. That's being a coward. So we have to be clear on this issue of truly loving somebody in this context. If the church truly loves somebody, we would go to them and take time, right, out of our schedule, out of our busyness.

And we would take time. We would sit them down and say, listen, you're going in the wrong direction. We love you enough to tell you this. Somebody who really, if I really didn't care or the leadership didn't care, we'd say, well, turn them over to Satan.

I don't care less. I'm just here to do my thing. I don't want to be bothered by this. That's not love. So I think it's important to define what love is. Because we have this concept of God as a doting grandfather or this cosmic ball of love, which I talk about often.

But if you ask most people, that's their definition of God. He's just some cosmic ball of love or a doting grandfather that winks at sin. But Jesus himself said you better confront it because it's cancer.

The more a church allows sin, blatant, unrepentant sin, to continue, the more that church will know not that the Spirit of the Lord has departed from them. Because God dwells with his people who are repentant and broken and humble before him and not allowing these things.

Telling Sin to the Church

So let's talk about that for a minute. He said, tell it to the church. Now, there's a lot of confusion here. Tell it to the church. And that word in the Greek language is ekklesia. If you look it up, there's a couple different meanings.

But the main meaning is a gathering of like-minded believers. So when Jesus said, go tell it to the church, the ekklesia, we immediately think of, hear both services, all the people, go tell everybody.

And I want to be careful in this area because there's freedom to have differing opinions. What I'm about to say, I know not everybody will agree with. And I don't know if there's an exact way to do this.

But I've been to, 10 years ago, I'll never forget. I was at this big church, probably 1 ,000 people. And they put some guy up on the PowerPoint screen. And I'm like, I have no clue who this is. But now I do.

Now I know what he's, but I didn't even know him. So is that what Jesus had in mind here? And the church had good intentions. And maybe that's the way, the route to go. I don't know. But looking at this text, ekklesia, it's a gathering of believers, in my opinion, who know the person.

The person's influence in the church would determine who the church is. Right? The person's influence in the church would determine who the church is. Pastor Shane, you hear, is leaving his wife. Well, guess what?

The whole church needs to know. Because the influence. But if Bill, on the second row, second service, who doesn't come very often, and nobody really knows except a certain group of us, is that the church?

Is that who you go to? And you let them know, hey, all of us, 12, 15, 20, 30 people, we need to lovingly confront this person. So, in a nutshell, I think we have to be careful when we're taking something to the church.

You have to determine, who even knows this person? Will it be productive? Is that the goal? Is to let everybody know, even if they don't even know who this person is? Because in going to the church and confronting something, there should be also a side of us that wants to protect.

Because we often forget about the victim, don't we? Go get the guy, but what about the wife and the children at home crying? Saying, daddy's not coming home. You think they want all their junk up there?

So, we have to be careful in this area and look at every situation and pray it through. So, in my opinion, go and tell it to the church, means those within the person's sphere of influence need to know about what's going on.

Because it's those people who can do the next step, which is to treat him like, how can I see this guy up on the PowerPoint? I have no idea who he is, how can I treat him like even a tax collector? I can't, I don't even know who he is.

But now I do, now I know he's walked down his wife and traded her in for a younger model. And now I know that this and that, things I probably didn't need to know. So, I think that's the context here.

Again, though, there's gray area in regard to Jesus saying a gathering of believers. You tell it to the church, the believers. But we can glean some insight from 2 Thessalonians 3, 14 through 15. And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, Paul's talking to the church in Thessalonica, you note that person.

So, here's the setting. The church in Thessalonica, they have a gathering of people, probably a house church. We forget that the church started in homes, did you know that? There wasn't a big, you know, thousand seat sanctuary in Jerusalem.

They had temples and different things, but they met in homes. So, if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, so you have this imagery here of people going to the small group or going to the church, and this person just does not want to obey them.

Just, you know, I don't care what you have to say, and they're kind of contentious, they're divisive, and Paul's like, enough of this. Because we're supposed to be like-minded believers. Now, there's nothing wrong with a person coming, having questions, and sincerely seeking.

But there are people there who were causing division. Have you ever met those people? Yes, I have, and it's not fun. That's why Paul elsewhere would say, rebuke a divisive person. And they're just like, you're going to point out everything, the color of the carpet?

You know, or this and this and this, and they're just divisive. So, Paul's saying, do not keep company with that person, that they may be ashamed. But then he continues, do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

In other words, he's saying, listen, you are so divisive this month, the Word of God says this, you're doing this, and we can't continue to fellowship with you. You're not my enemy, you're my brother, and because you're my brother in Christ, I love you enough to tell you the truth.

And I like what John Wesley said, commenting on this passage. Have no company with him, no intimacy, no familiarity, no needless correspondence. Tell him lovingly of the reason why you shun him. There's a shun, we don't use that word much anymore, but a shunning is, listen, I can't have needless correspondence, I can't have, let's go to lunch, let's play golf.

The reason is because you're validating by your silence that their lifestyle is okay. You're well aware that saying nothing says something, right? If a person, for example, comes into church week in and week out, month in and month out, and they know that I know that there's something going on in their life, but I'm just not saying anything, I'm just avoiding it.

By my silence, I confirm or strengthen their position, strengthen them in their sin. Actually, it's funny, if you read a lot of the Old Testament, I like, one of the books I like is Jeremiah, specifically Jeremiah 23.

It's talking about the false prophets of those days, and even false prophets, you could parallel that to today. One of the characteristics of a trait, of a false prophet, is to tell people, peace, peace, when there is no peace.

In other words, to say, don't worry about it. Continue in that destructive pattern. God doesn't care. God still loves you. You're actually not warning. That's why, in Jeremiah, he said, is not my word like a hammer, like a fire that devours, but you have perverted the words of the living God by not warning and instructing and telling the people to come back to God.

You're encouraging their sin by your silence. That's a false prophet. That's a false prophet. They would encourage sin. So all these guys out there that just want to keep encouraging the church to keep sinning and not confront anything, I don't know if they're pleasing God.

Now, there comes a time for encouragement, right? We all know that. Please, please bring the encouragement. But when it comes to a consistent pattern of sin, there comes a time to confront that. We can't rush this process, nor should we try to avoid it.

That's a key right there. We can't rush this process. Anybody that wants to rush church discipline often has the wrong heart. But we also can't avoid it. We can't avoid speaking the truth in love. Now, here's a couple of important steps I want to share with you since we're talking about this.

Offering a Solution and Accountability

And the reason I wanted to fully exhaust this over the last four weeks now, four messages, is because if it ever comes up or when we're dealing with this issue in the future, we can just say, go watch these videos.

We just covered everything. If you want to know the church's position, here they are. So here's a couple important steps. This is actually before the church gets involved or it's even after when the person says, I don't care what the church says, I'm going to continue.

Number one, we have to offer a solution to the person. It's very healthy, and I do this often, to say, I will walk through this with you. There's hope. But if you just confront somebody and say, man, you're out of line, this and that, you're in trouble, I don't care what you have to say, don't call me anymore.

They leave there going, uh-oh. But if you say, listen, this is a very destructive pattern. I can walk through, the church can walk through this with you. Here's the steps you're going to need to take.

Here's the healing that's going to need to happen. We've got to get your spouse plugged in with some other women or other men, if it's on the other side, and walk through this with you. We're going to be here.

It's going to be hard. It's going to hurt, but we'll walk through this with you. On one hand, they get the right hook. That would be a left hook, actually. They get the left hook, oh, this hurts, I'm confronted, but the building back up.

But we're going to walk through this with you. How does that look? Let me talk to you about one thing that's an epidemic now with pornography. I've shared with you before on my phone, on all of our computers, everything, we've got accountability software to where you can't even access a porn site, and it also will send to my wife every week, every website search I do, the searches on Google, every website I visit, who I search for on Facebook.

It's all sent to her in a nice little email. But that's part of accountability. That's part of, like, devil, you can't touch this, because I know how you work, and I want to put up safeguards, and I want to have those.

So how that would look is I would tell the guy or the woman, well, probably my wife would counsel the women. That's one thing we don't do. I don't counsel the opposite sex. We refer those out just using wisdom there, too, as well, because there's relationships there that can build that aren't healthy, and you're opening a door to the enemy, I believe.

Now, back on track. Offering a solution, it's everywhere. We're actually going to offer a class here at the church for those caught in this or needing help in the future. But you would say, instead of just making them feel degraded and humiliated and shameful, you'd say, I'm going to walk through this with you, and here's what it's going to look like.

You're going to hook up this software. It's going to be painful at times. It's going to be hurt. We're going to hook it up to one of the leadership at the church, and you need this accountability. You need this structure.

Here's what's going to happen. Your wife is going to break her heart. She's probably going to talk about divorce. I don't want you to open your mouth. I don't want you to say a word. I just want you to apologize and repent, and you shut your mouth.

You don't argue. You don't make excuses. You don't complain. Here's what's going to happen. Let me walk through it with you. And you walk them down that road so when it does happen, they're prepared and they know that the church is there for them, not against them.

So you see the difference? I can bring the sledgehammer and say, this is wrong. You're destroying your family, but here's how we're going to help you. And I have to take care there because take heed lest I fall.

What we talked about last week, if we come in with the wrong attitude, the devil says, oh, this guy's prideful. Let me take him down. So that's how it works. Offer a solution. Now, this is important too with the person.

You have to, number one rule, you have to define repentance so everybody is on the same page. Because when I just say repentance, he might go, yeah, that sounds good. I'll be sorry. Or she'll say, I'm sorry.

But that's not repentance. Repentance is a turning, a changing, and a repairing, and a restoring. You want to fix the damage that you did. You want to restore. You're not about, if you start to blame shift and make excuses, your heart's not ready.

And so you need to let the person know what genuine repentance looks like. Listen, if you're really changing, I don't want to hear this. I want to see your feet and hands moving and doing the right things.

Because everybody, I'm convinced, can talk the talk. Say the right things at the right time. We've got the lingo down. So we have to define what repentance looks like. And accountability, which I just talked about, accountability starts the process of restoration.

You have to let them know you have to have some form of accountability. You have to have some form of accountability. Here's the funny thing with accountability. Accountability in and of itself is not the answer.

I cannot ask a person to keep me accountable. God's got to keep me accountable. And a person should not have to keep you accountable. But it's a very important part of the puzzle, because there's accountability there, there's transparency there.

What I just talked about the website, what I've talked about with our board that's over this church, that looks over the financials, they look at where's this money going, how's it being spent. It's very healthy to have accountability, because it keeps our sin nature in check.

So that's what you have to tell, you have to let the person know that there has to be some form of accountability. There has to be some form of change. And we've talked about people, let's say, again, example, they're married, but now they're separated, and now this person has a girlfriend or boyfriend.

Well, one of the steps of accountability is you need to cut that, here's how this conversation goes, you need to cut that relationship off. Not next week, not next month, today. If you want me to see that repentance is genuine, you tell them to lose your number, you cancel your cell phone, your new cell phone, you leave it on the counter for your spouse to see every text that comes in, every phone call you make, that's what genuine repentance looks like.

I'm not willing to do that, then you're not willing to change, you're just full of hot air. And then we have to approach it like that. Who in their right mind would want to keep Plan B on the back burner?

A person not yet fully repentant. A person not yet fully repentant has Plan A, Plan B, and probably Plan C, in case this doesn't work out. You know what, I wrote this down, I hope it helps somebody, and as you know, the people listening on the radio, on the internet, in the weeks to come.

Separation, Divorce, and the Need for Healing

But I want to speak on this issue, since we're talking about it. I'm amazed at how many Christians seek somebody to date soon after their separation or divorce. I mean, if anything shocks me in the church, it's this.

I know people, not people that go here, don't get me wrong, but you'll see on Facebook that I know they're separated, and now they met somebody. What are we missing here? Let me be crystal clear. You do not go out and find somebody, even if you're divorced.

I think it should be at least a year or two of healing, if it's a biblical divorce, which there's only a few things, and we're going to talk about that in the weeks to come. But that should be the last thing on your mind.

And I've talked to people. One lady used to come a couple years ago, and she was in the separation process, wanting to get divorced. She goes, I can't wait until I can start dating again. I don't know, laugh or cry.

You want to know why? Because her heart's not right. You should be broken over what's happening. So on that note, I just want to say that because I see so many people, okay, now we're separated, now I can start dating.

No, that is clearly sin in God's eyes. The release of that takes time, a lot of time. And this no-fault divorce that we've embraced in our country is destroying the families. See, here's the thing. You, well, not you guys, but people doing this kind of thing, and I know it's hard, don't get me wrong.

Marriage is difficult. Talk to my wife and ask her about the first year of ours. Wow. Remember what Ruth Graham told Billy Graham? I still love him, but I've thought about killing him. I might murder him.

So I know, when I talk about this subject, I never want to minimize the pain and the difficulty and the challenges. Sometimes marriage is a thorn in the flesh, is it not? But I don't think we realize the damage that it's done to children.

Because here's the excuse we think, oh, they're resilient. They'll bounce back. No, they won't. Let me just be up front. The majority of young adults that sometimes the church is counseling now, most of their pain can be traced back to the divorce, mommy meeting somebody new quickly, and this, it can be traced right back.

This is an epidemic. But we're so selfish and so self-absorbed that we have to go get somebody, right? And the truth is, the reason people want to hurry up is they want to hurry up for sex. I mean, that's the majority.

That's the truth. And the majority, that's what, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry. I got to meet somebody. I got to meet somebody. No, that's not good. That's not godly. There should be a significant amount of time.

People are going, I can't believe you said the S-word here. Well, it's healthy. It's God-ordained. But that's what drives many people, selfishness. Selfishness. You can listen to the conversation. You can listen.

And on this note, if a person is looking forward to meeting somebody else, now, there's nothing wrong with, you know, you're going through a difficult marriage and you can't wait until this is over and God restores, hopefully, and things like that.

But when we're planning, we're planning something when God might want us to pray for restoration. It makes no sense. So you cannot immediately, in my opinion, there's no excuse for just immediately going out and finding somebody.

Here's another point. Be clear on this with them, that healing requires time. Healing requires time in the same way that the physical injuries, if you've ever been hurt physically, have you ever tore a rotator cuff or your knee popped and you've got to wear a brace?

In the same way, spiritual injury takes time to heal. If reinstatement to ministry or restoration occurs too quickly, more damage can result because of a weakened state that is not yet strong. What I mean by that is many churches, okay, somebody, there's church discipline or there's sin in the camp, and it's pretty big.

And the person's like, okay, can I go back and start helping again a month later? A month later? Talk to me in 12 months. One year? Yeah. Oh, for sure. See, we've got to feel the pain of the sin that we caused.

If you just reinstate somebody quickly, it does more damage than good. Now there's forgiveness. Then we can reinstate the relationship. But serving in ministry is a whole different capacity. Whole different capacity.

So that area, we need to be careful as well. Be clear. Tell them that healing takes time. And it's very good to say things like, I don't know how long. I don't know how long. I remember there's one gentleman here three years ago now.

He's actually back in jail. A couple of you will know who this is, but most of you won't. But soon after something horrific happened, the church had to get involved. Within, it seemed like, a couple of months, he was asking me when we can ordain him as a pastor.

And he said, you deer caught in the headlight, look, right? Am I reading this right? This email? What is wrong with me, Lord? In a nutshell, I was cordial, nice, but don't even bring this kind of stuff up.

Don't even talk to me about this. That's not even on the radar. Well, Shane, what about offering hope? We offer hope in segments. And say, maybe someday, if a lot of things change, but you don't give a time frame on it.

Because what happens is they'll do certain things until the time frame's up. If I tell my son, just be good for the next 30 minutes, and then you can do this, guess what he's going to do for the next 30 minutes?

His heart hasn't changed, though. So we don't put time frames on things. Now, it's okay to say, yeah, we can revisit this in three months or six months, and here's what I'd like to see during that time period.

But you want to avoid putting a time frame on it, because then you've got to rush to that time frame. And here's why. Time is needed to revisit progress, talk to family members, and reassess the situation.

We encourage and believe the best in others, but we also wait and we verify. What was Ronald Reagan's famous saying? Trust, but verify. Trust, but verify. I think he was dealing with Russia back then.

Yes, we trust you, but we're going to verify. I think we should tell, Obama should have said that to Iran as well, right? Don't get me started. You guys, come on. Anyway. But if he refuses even to hear the church, but if he refuses even to hear the church, now think about this environment.

People have told me before, that seems a little harsh. Jesus seems harsh here, Shane. Help me understand this. Well, let's put this whole in context. But if he refuses to hear the church, here's the context of this.

Arrogance, Rebellion, and Church Discipline

A person goes to somebody and says, listen, here's the offense. They say, I don't care, I don't want to hear it. They come weeks, maybe later, praying about it. They come with mature men or women, and they address the person again.

And he says, I don't want to hear it. It's not my fault, right? Excuses. And then they bring more people, or they tell the church. So this guy now is in a point of arrogance and rebellion. There's nothing pleasant about this.

This is arrogance and rebellion at its core, and Jesus says you better address it. If a person doesn't want to hear the confrontation of one, okay, I got it. Then they don't want to hear a couple witnesses, leadership in the church, and then they don't want to listen to the whole church, and they still think they're right, that's rebellion.

That's arrogance and rebellion, if I've ever seen arrogance and rebellion. So that's why the next step has to occur. So always remember, the church doesn't create this environment, the person does. So when the person gets upset, you have to remind them, I think you created this environment, not me.

People get upset. Did you know that? They get upset at the church. This message right now will upset people, probably in the first and second service. And you have to remind them that you created this environment, not me.

We're just responding to the environment you created that's occurring here. Now what if the person doesn't listen? We talked about earlier, I don't have to explain this again, how the church handles it, is you go to the group of people who know this person, there's influence, you probably, I'm going to talk about a few things in a minute, but that's who the ecclesy is, that's who the church is.

Their area of influence determines who you tell, and you say, listen, here's this person, they're caught in a transgression, they're caught in this sin, we need to pray for them, we need to fast and pray, and pray that God will work in their heart.

Because whether they admit it or not, once you get to this process, it's pretty humiliating. Do you think the person would be humiliated? In a good way, right? They can't believe they're going through this, me, not me.

I'm such and such, I'm Joe Bible. Well, often it's Joe Bible who needs a swift, you know what, without that brokenness and humility that I often talk about. Without that broken, gentle spirit, Joe Bible becomes a Bible-thumping husband that wants to tell his whole family off.

So we have to be careful there, too. And usually it's after many weeks of pleading and praying and waiting on God that you finally have to come to that point and apply the church discipline. So here's what has to take place.

Number one, the majority, if I'm reading the text right, not reading into it too much, the majority of the leadership has to agree. I mean, if the leadership of the church is divided and saying, listen, I think we need to wait a little longer, I think we need to, I talked to him last week, he seemed, I don't think we should do this yet, I think there's caution there, there's wisdom in waiting.