Stephen Kaung's Personal Testimony — Stephen Kaung

The Church Universal and the Lord's Building

What is the Church Universal? The Church Universal is something which our Lord said, I will build my church, comes from the Lord Himself. The Lord is the builder, the Lord is in charge, the Lord is working.

It is true in the church local we are all employed in that building. But you do not build each according to your idea or your will. We build under the authority of ourselves. Everything, I do not have the time to go into all these things, but in everything you will find what is the principle of the Church Universal is now being brought into practice in the church local.

From Methodism to Active Evangelism

What local church do you belong to? Not that my experience is typical, but just to illustrate. As I told you yesterday morning that I was brought up in a Methodist church. Among the holiness people. I was not saved among the Methodists.

Because our type of Methodists are not the shouting type. I was not saved there. Among the holiness people. Holiness people actually is a branch of Methodism. It is still Methodism. By the grace of God, I was not saved by Methodism though, I was saved by the Lord.

I have to make that clear. I was saved among the holiness people. Methodist church, even before I was saved. I became a member of the Methodist church before I was saved. An active member too. So after I was saved, of course I become more active.

Even though at that time I was quite young. I was still in high school. In the Methodist church. Methodist church, associated with, has a gospel meeting, you know. Sometimes they have gospel meetings.

Old enough to stand on the pulpit. They won't allow me to do that. One thing, I volunteer to gospel meeting in the church building. I will be standing on the street trying to pull and push and persuade people, force people to get into the building to hear the gospel.

That was my work. We have rickshaw, you know. That was during the early days. Very few people have cars. Even if you have car, it's not too comfortable because of the way the streets are paved. We have rickshaw, you know.

And of course on the street there will be rickshaws just standing there. And the rickshaw man will be sitting in the rickshaw waiting for business. Rickshaw man into the hall. During the time when I cannot leave my rickshaw and go in.

He should hear the gospel. He wouldn't listen. He put his hands upon his ears. He wouldn't listen. So I shout. I have a loud voice. That's taking a sense. That Methodist church is not enough for my activities.

I was very young. I joined myself with lots of activities. I joined with activities of visiting prisons. I was in prison many times. I visited hospitals. Evangelistic band going to the villages. And I can tell you, we went to the villages, you know.

We tried to preach the gospel. We were all very young high school students. But we were on fire for the Lord. So we went to these places. And when we went to preach in the villages. Well, people would say, well here is someone sick.

They expect us to pray for the sick. We went. And I remember very vividly. We went into one high house. A boy was sick. And we all knelt down. And some put their hand upon the feet. Some put their hand upon the head and all over the body.

And we prayed and asked the Lord to raise up that boy. Actually he was dead already. And he was dead of meningitis. You can see the fervency. The zeal. Everything was fine. Yes, I met Brother Mee. Very early.

Hearing the Call but Resisting Commitment

Within a year. I can still tell you what he spoke. That was about 40 years ago. I was impressed. The place where he spoke. But I wasn't ready. For what the Lord has shown. Too busy. Too successful. Strange way.

Another funny thing. In the old days when they have a revival meeting or a conference, you know. Always the same thing. The last day of the conference is the day of consecration. That's always the same thing.

So I was saved just a day or two before the last day of the conference. The last day of conference, a large map of China was put on the wall. Behind the platform. And the preacher began to talk. I want to serve the Lord.

Volunteer. On the place that you will go for the Lord. I was just saved. I was constrained. I woke up. Put my finger on Mongolia. Serve the Lord. I want to go to the furthest place. To the most difficult place.

To prove my love. For my sincerity. With honesty. I did not know at that time that this is the Lord of the harvest. He has to thank. He does not want volunteers. But anyway I volunteer my service. Just at that moment I made it.

After I did it for a whole year. I tried to get everything on Mongolia. To read about Mongolia. I prayed every day about this thing. I set my heart and my mind towards Mongolia. I felt that this is the place I will go.

To serve the Lord. I will not go to college. I thought it was a waste of time. What's the use of going to college and spend four years there. And try to learn the things of this world. Which is refuse.

I determined in my heart. Well the only thing I know how to serve the Lord is go to a Bible school. How can you prepare yourself to serve the Lord if you don't go to a Bible school or a theological seminary.

Sure that's the only thing you can do. That's the only thing I knew. Choose my own Bible school. It was a good one. I associated with them in evangelism. So I knew them. And after I graduated from high school.

I had a talk. I have good relationship with my father. But you know the Chinese family. Relationship between the father and son is rather formal. He love us very much. We respect him very much. But it's a little bit formal.

After I graduated I talked to my father. I said. Determined. To go to a Bible school. To prepare myself. For the service. My father certainly will agree. Because my father loved the Lord very much. And he was a Methodist.

My father objected. My father said son no. You are not going to Bible school. Now. You go to college. Finished college. I will send you to United States of America. To study theology. So I should come many years ago to this country.

To study theology. My whole plan was shattered. I thought. As a young boy. I had to obey my father. I had to go to college. Coming to college I had to leave my home. For the first time. That warm atmosphere among God's people.

College, Isolation, and Discovering Christian Division

Oh we have so many dear ones in high school. We have meetings. Three times a week. And one third of the student body. Came to the meeting voluntarily. Many of the faculties came. Many got things. We had very good time together.

And the Lord took me. And put me in another city. An entirely different. In that city of course it was a university run by the Methodist church. My root in Methodism is very deep. I went to that university.

And as soon as I got to that university. I threw myself immediately into activities again. There was a university church nearby. There was Sunday school. So I once again threw myself into it. You know.

I made a sad discovery. To you brothers and sisters. You forgive me. I have to go on. I discovered there are different kinds of so called Christians. I never dreamed it. I thought that all Christians are alike.

All Christians believe in the Lord Jesus. All Christians believe in the Bible. All Christians love the Lord. That's what I know. But when I went to that university. I didn't know it was the center of Methodism in East China.

I didn't know that. I came into collision. Whenever in our discussion time. I try to bring out the Lord. I try to bring out the Bible as it is. My missionary professor will cut me off. And try to bring in the economic, the political background and things like that.

Every time. And gradually the Lord opened my eyes to see and say no. This is not it. This is not Christianity. Not Christian. Gradually withdrew myself from these activities. But I had to be active. Later on my father moved to that same city.

He became the pastor of the university. To give me some work to do. And you know. Because of my youth he will not make me the superintendent of the neighborhood Sunday school. But actually I ran that.

In the afternoon, Sunday afternoon we went out to gather children on the streets. There were children who lived in the boat. In boat. Hoat. You know. Hoat. They lived in the river. He's loud. Never heard the gospel.

Never learned discipline. Never. We gathered them. But the one thing that I liked most. During the early days. Of my college years. Is Christian. I was taken out of a warm Christian atmosphere. I was put in an ice box.

Almost. I was in my own room. We had three in the same room. Every day I spent hours. On my knees. Before the Lord. I read the Bible on my knees. I prayed. Students would go in and out of the room. I didn't care.

I had to get to the room. My only comfort. And that sustained my life. I was longing. It was during that period. I began to read. Some writings. My old brother did. And these writings began to make sense.

The activities. Come and go. Without making any impression. Yes. Any impression is good. But when the Lord put me. And in my quietness. Before the Lord. The Lord began to. It began to. Of course the first thing that.

Wrestling with Baptism and Obedience

Really. Came to me. What is natural baptism. I was baptized in a Methodist church. When I was an infant. That was the practice. Of the Methodist church. One of my friends. Actually he was my classmate.

And later. Became my fellow worker. A son of a Methodist preacher. He got baptized. By immersion. So he came back to us. And tried to talk us into it. And I remember very vividly. Myself and another. Friend.

A teacher. In our high school. We were all saved around the same time. He was also a son of a Methodist preacher. And when this brother came. And tried to. Convince us. Of the need. Of baptism. By immersion.

Believers baptism. We two argued with him. You know. And by sheer force. The Lord began to say. You cannot silence. The voice of truth. You can delay it. But you cannot silence. A year or within a year.

With me again. That brother was baptized. And they tried to work on me. A letter to me explaining. Why he was baptized. You know. And when I read that letter. I threw it away. And said. If you want to be baptized.

Go ahead. Why bother. To explain to you. One holiday. And this brother. Has moved. To live with brother me. I visited. This brother. And he began to. Work on me again. So he left me alone. And there I was alone.

I said Lord. You know very well. One day I will be baptized. I know it. But it is not convenient now. You know my father is. A Methodist preacher. Well known. How can I be baptized. By immersion. And if this news should go out.

What will happen to my father. I love my father very much. I cannot do it. But after I graduate. From college. After I become independent. I'll do it. I promise you. I'll do it. I know it is right. As I was praying to the Lord.

In this manner. The word of God came to me. He who loves. His father and mother. More than me. Cannot be my father. Dear brothers and sisters. All my life. I have one desire. To be his disciple. When that word came to me.

I cannot argue anymore. I told the Lord. All right. I'll be baptized. I went down from. The upstairs. Went to the. Other stairs. Knocked the door. I asked to see Brother Meek. I wanted to. I told him I wanted to be baptized.

And I was baptized. At that very. Dear brothers and sisters. The reason why I mention this is. Because this is the first. That leads me. To further. I remain there with them. On Sunday. And of course.

The Lord's Table and Discerning the Body

On the Lord's Day. They always have the Lord's. Table. I took communion. In the Methodist Church. Once a month. And it was very real to me. I went to the communion. I can remember. I went to the communion.

With a very honest heart. I knelt. At the altar. When I took the communion. And it was very real to me. When I had. The Lord's table with our brothers and sisters. There in Shanghai. In that most simple way.

Of remembering the Lord. Immediately I know in my heart. I cannot go back. To the Methodist Church. And have communion there. I cannot. Because I know the people who kneel with me. Do not believe in the Lord.

How can I have fellowship with them? Over the same table. Same place. I cannot. But it became a problem to me. My father was the pastor there. Everybody knew me. I was a very zealous person. I was supposed to continue my father's.

Promise. To be sent to this country. To study theology. Everybody thought that I would succeed. I could not go back. And have communion. With those who do not believe the Lord. This is not the body. I have to discern the body.

But anyway. I broke the bread there. I went home. I didn't know how to solve this problem. Every month. On the first Sunday. I try to think of an excuse. Not to be present. I dare not to tell my father.

What happened to me. But I just try to keep myself aware. Every day. First Sunday. And dear brothers and sisters. I have to tell you that. It is very difficult. It is very difficult. Trying to serve two masters.

I have done that. Gradually. Gradually. The Lord began to open more to me. Yes. I still went to the Methodist church. I still was involved with the neighborhood Sunday school. But during this period. The Lord began to open more.

The Unity of God's People

And more to me. The Lord began to show me that. The Lord's people cannot be divided. You cannot divide. God's people into Methodists. Into Presbyterians. Into Baptists. Into all these sects. And parties.

That is not the Lord's design. The Lord wants His people to be one. To be one. It is the body of Christ. I do not know too much at that time yet. But. Gradually the Lord began to show me. One with my brothers and sisters.

I have to stand on the ground. Of the unity. Of the body of Christ. I find it. Increasingly difficult to continue in that way. And thank God. During that period. The Lord gave me some brothers and sisters.

We have two or three brothers in the same university. And. During the week. Three or four of us will go. And find and end this road. And pray together. And then later on. On the Lord's day. We don't know anything.

We just. We don't know anything at that time. But on the Lord's day. After a while we began. Just the three or four of us. We used a classroom. And we began to break the bread. Without knowing. What's involved.

We feel that we want to. Remember the Lord. We just break the bread together. And on the other side of the city. There was a hospital. It was a Presbyterian hospital. A big one. And we heard that there were some sisters there.

Who took. Train by turn. To Shanghai. To meet with the brothers and sisters. So finally we got together. They have four we have three. We got together. And we say let's pray. And see what the Lord wants.

We pray for the half a year. Without coming together. After half a year the Lord move us all. To feel that we should come together. So we came together. I remember very well. That was about. Thirty eight years ago.

We came together. And on that day. Just the seven of us. We broke the bread together. And remember the Lord. And everyone cried towards us. Sensing the presence. The Lord brought his servant. To our home.

We had to. Borrow benches. And we met. In a sister's home. That is our sister Miss Gu's home. Her sister. Were there. At that time. We met in that home. And dear brothers and sisters. Let me tell you one thing.

Returning to Simplicity and Unity

For quite a long time. I was. On the one hand. What the Lord. Was all that God's people. Must return. To simplicity. God's people must return. To unity. I saw it dimly. I saw it. It was glory in my heart.

More and more I was moving in that direction. And now the Lord has given brothers and sisters. A few. Yet we come together. In fellowship. And I could see the Lord will be adding. To us. Environment was such.

Take the lead. The sisters. Two sisters especially. They were much more advanced. Than we were. We were all students. There were two sisters. Miss Gu's sister and another sister. They knew the Lord much more than we do.

But they. Wanted to keep their place. In the church. So they will. Want the brothers. To take the lead. Of course. We fellowship with them. Because we knew very little at that time. And yet we had to take the lead.

Oh dear brothers and sisters. I remember that when we first met. I was everything and everywhere. I usually was the first one. Arrived there to open the door. Swept the floor. Set the chairs. Waiting for the brothers and sisters to come.

Open the meeting. Lead the prayer. Preach the word. Count the money. Not alone. Send the brothers and sisters off. Close the door. Of my feet. Was still. In Methodism. Was pouring. Between two poles. Is the church.

All Methodism. For some months. Knew that if the Lord. Came to find a way. In my city. Where I studied. Had to be settled. In my life. I couldn't go on in this. Happened to other brothers and sisters.

Counting the Cost of Following the Lord

They were looking to me to lead them. In a sense. I was deeply exercised. Very much exercised. For months. And then a servant of the Lord. Before you do anything. Sit down and count your cost. Lest. You cannot finish it.

Then it will be. Something to be laughed at. We all ate together. Being new. We invited friends to come here. And then we all rested a while. For the afternoon. I was sitting there alone. I was praying.

You know something isn't right. I want to go all the way with you. So. Is it because I have never really count. All right. Let me count the cost. See whether I can follow you or not. So I began to count.

Oh I counted my cost. Well if I should follow the Lord. In the way that he is leading me. Probably I cannot continue in that university. I will be cast. If I continue in this way. Probably I will be cast out from my home.

If I continue in this way. I will go to United States to study theology. If I go this way. Everything. My plan. My desire. To serve the Lord. Because I knew nothing. No other way. I fell the cost. I told the Lord.

All mental I don't know. But I saw him. I saw him coming to me. Show me his hand. And he told me one thing. I saw the bleeding man. My only answer was Lord. Everything. My blood. My everything belongs to you.

I cannot waver anymore. It's you. Thank God by his grace. It was settled. In my heart. But that doesn't mean the problem was solved. It was just a willingness. It took me three days and three nights. I couldn't eat.

I went to classes. I was struggling. The Lord said. You have promised. You have given yourself to me. All right. Step out. Step out for me. In my heart. I knew I had to. But I struggled. After three days and three nights.

He gave me strength. I remember I asked to see my father. We had a talk together. I told my father. I was baptized. My father said. Why don't you tell me? I will never forbid you to be baptized. If that's the way you feel.

That of the Lord. But he said. I'm hurt. Because you're hiding from me. So I told my father. I'm sorry. I did not have the courage to tell him. And I told him everything. I said. I tried to keep myself away from the communion.

But there was only a new way. I cannot go in this way anymore. I have to follow the Lord. And my father said. I knew all these things. I consider Methodists. Just as a few. I'm not sectarian. If you feel you cannot go this way.

He said. Of course I'm disappointed. But you have to go. The way the Lord leads you. And dear brothers and sisters. All the difficulties. All the troubles. The mountains of difficulties. Of my imagination.

Persecution and the Father's Liberty

The Lord. By the grace of God I was able to meet. With my brothers and sisters. Not on. Any ground. Of division. Any ground of special truth. Not on any ground. Of special organization. Not on any ground.

Not on special person. To follow. But the Lord. Brought me out. Of all these. Divisions. And just stepped. On the unity of the Father. I'm free. To fellowship with all the children of God. I'm open to all the truth.

Of God. The Lord began to work. On being saved. Many are attracted. Although we were just a very small group. Less than a hundred. And yet all the persecution. Not from the world. But from the Christians.

I remember very well a pastor. A Methodist pastor. He sent me a magazine. And he put circles and lines. Over certain passages. Asked me to read it. It's an article on communism. He accused me. Of that.

And you know in my youthful innocence. I knew this pastor was not faith. I had the courage. I went to him. And preached the gospel to him. We were accused of many things. We were put out from many places.

We were greatly persecuted. Every step of my step. They couldn't do anything to me. Because my father was the pastor of that church. He was the president of the director. Of the university. They couldn't do anything to me.

But I have to tell you one thing. My father suffered a great deal. I am not trying to praise my father. But I have to say this. When I was following the Lord. In simplicity. Because they couldn't get me.

On me. Just a young boy. All the denominations in that city. All the schools. Hospitals. Institutions related to all these denominations. They met together for three days. Just to discuss us. We are nothing.

And people openly accused my father. Look at your son. You know what my father said? My father was a wise man. He quoted the word of the scripture. You know what Gamaliel said? If it is of man. That's my father's answer.

Let me tell you brothers and sisters. My father was persecuted for my sake. Yet he never said a word. He gave me. I was a youngster at that time. In my junior, sophomore, junior year. But my father gave me perfect liberty.

Learning to Serve Through Work and Prayer

I have to testify that I was so busy again. I didn't have time to read my books. I do not encourage young people not to study. My sister and I. You know my sister and I. Were both in college at that time.

And in many classes. We were in the same class. So we bought only one book because we were poor. And she always had the book. I never seemed to read. I didn't have the time. My mother was so worried. Because I was out.

In the morning I went to university to study. And in the afternoon I disappeared. I didn't come back until late. I was doing visiting. And I was doing everything, you know. I have to testify one thing.

It is for the glory of the Lord. You don't know how dull I was. When I was a little boy. Trying to memorize just one sentence. Two sentences. I don't know the English name for these two flowers. Just to remember the names of the two flowers.

One flower is like a cup. The other flower is like the crown of a... A cup. You know what I mean? What do you call that? No, anyway. It runs like this. This flower is like a cup. And that flower is like a crown.

Spent hours on it and couldn't remember. That's my problem. I like to study. I was a bookworm. Even now I am still. I like to study. When I came home, we had a snack. And then I would study until dark.

I like to study. But the more I study, the more I get confused. I memorize something and then I forgot. As I continue to memorize, I forgot. I don't know. I overwork myself. Always like this. Most dull.

I think nobody is as dull as I was. As I am. I have to testify that during those years in school. I prayed. Prayed much. And the Lord heard my prayer. He gave me back the time as it were I sought. Miracles after miracles happened in my study.

During those years, on the one hand, it was difficult. Very difficult. With all these pressures and persecution. I have to tell you that these were the most precious years. The law was so near. Oh, the law was so near.

The Local Church Under Christ's Headship

Something that I usually preached very long. You should know the way I preached at that time. My brother, he used to preach three hours. At a stretch. He used to preach, if not three hours, at least maybe two hours.

I don't know where the word came from. You know, sometimes I look back and try to remember. Recall the days, my early days. Where it came from, I don't know. I didn't know much. And yet, I have so much to say.

Dear brothers and sisters. In a sense, during those days, the Lord showed. In a practical way. What a noble church. We do not know anything. We look to the Lord. The authority by His Holy Spirit is our only guide.

So far as we know, we allow the Lord to take His place. As the head. As we know, in spite of all the persecutions that come to us. To all the children of God. In that locality. We do not know much about the truth of the local church.

But so far as our understanding goes. We are learning to practice. Forgive me, I'll continue a little bit more. After I graduated. Another crisis in my life. Immediately after I was graduated. Our dear brother and me.

Joining the Workers and Answering a New Call

And other workers. They felt that I should join them. Serving the Lord together. That was in 19 with Drew. I felt I couldn't do it. Dear brothers and sisters. One day I had to. Serve the Lord. If the Lord had called me, I knew it.

For two reasons. One reason is. I had never been to Bible school. And to study the Bible. And another reason is. I would rather stay where I was. Because I love these brothers and sisters. They were wonderful.

When the brothers asked me to go to Shanghai. To join with them, you know. They press and press and press and press. And say you must go, you must go. So finally I said alright I will come. But I won't promise you how long I will be there.

I went there a week and stayed back. At the same time I was trying to find a job. A teaching job. Of course. It was a policy. Of the denominations. Those who come to our meeting. Will not be employed.

So I cannot find employment with a religious work. I have to find employment in a secular work. But dear brothers and sisters. Let me tell you a tragedy. A tragedy. It was during that time. One young brother.

Whom I love very much. He was in. His family was in another city. And after the school was over. Before he went back to his home. He and a few friends. They swam. In the river. And he was drowned. They notified me.

His parents were not there. I had to take care of him. Until their parents. After we sent his body. To the funeral. Parlor to the cemetery. For a whole night. I blame. I say Lord. You are unfair. Such a young life.

You take. It is unfair. You know we need brothers. That is not right. I would not let him go. All through the night. Until the morning. I would not give up. I told the Lord that I could not agree to that.

It was just too much. My spirit was in despair. I was still. Blaming the Lord for what. And the Lord. The Lord said all right. Do you know that brother died for you? Do you know that so young. And yet his life.

How long do you think you can wait. Until. You come out. And serve me. It is a lesson for you. Anyway that is the way the Lord spoke to me. Everybody was away. Only my father and I were in the home. The Lord.

Has shown me. That I have to go. You know what my father said. My father said. I knew it. If you doubt your calling. Who is calling? You were trying to find a job. I knew you would not be able to get it.

He said even though I would like you to serve together with me. For so long as you serve him. It is all right with me. We knelt down together. And I could never forget the prayer of my father. He committed me to the Lord.

And he said Lord. Not just one child. But everyone. You can have. He just committed me to the Lord. And there we go. I left home. From that day on. And brothers and sisters I was privileged. To meet with many brothers and sisters who were way ahead of me.

Building Local Churches and Seeing Their Spiritual Reality

And they took care of me. They taught me. In many many ways. I was just learning to serve. But I have to continue a little bit just to finish it. After I have served the Lord for many years. In different parts of China.

You know at that time all I knew was the local church. That was all I knew. Everywhere we went we preached the gospel. We gathered God's people. We baptized them. We taught them to remember the Lord at his table.

And we tried to help them knowing more about the Lord and about the Bible. But you know in a way. My work at least. Is mostly involved with. What I call building the local church. After doing that for some years.

I get tired. That came to 1942. That was the war time. We fled to India. In a sister's home. For over a month. And during that month. The Lord began. For the local church to really work. It is more than just to gather God's people.

Get them baptized. Set up the table. They have to care. That the Lord is there. Brothers and sisters. It opens. I began to see. There is more than the technicality of a local church. There is the reality of the local church.

As the church universal. In all its principles. Is being practiced. Oh then I began to see. There will be. No limit to it. No limit. For Christ is in the church local. Dear brothers and sisters. Remember this.

The Unsearchable Growth of the Church

By the grace of God. He has. Continuously opening up. Opening up. Opening up. Opening up. Something more. There is no end to it. Dear brothers and sisters. No end to it. This. The eternal. That which is going.

To satisfy His heart. No limitation. Do not think that you know it all. You may just get a glimpse of it. There is more. There is more. Thank God in all these. Mindful deep afflictions. Sometimes. I am wonderful.

The Lord. Gradually opens. To see. That delight of His heart. How glorious it is. Nothing but. Oh dear brothers and sisters. I was prepared to. Speak to you on. I feel that I have you. In my testimony.

The Church Universal and the Church Local in Revelation

I believe. In one church. By the grace of God. I want to practice. This one. I cannot see the division. The separation. Between the church universal. And the church local. I believe that God's people.

Should be filled with us. Which is universal. But God's people should walk. In the way of the Lord. To the world today. You read Revelation. You find in Revelation. Chapter 2 and 3. The church. But you come to Revelation 21 and 22.

One junction. Does God. That church universal. The work. Is done today. In the church local. Is the church local. To the realization. Of the church. If we do not live. In the light. The reality. Again I say.

Today. It is the local church. In which. One day. You don't find a local church. It is the church. Be afraid. Be afraid.