Atheism examined-- Christian/Atheist Debate

The Problem of Moral Relativism and Objective Evil

If it's okay to molest a child, is it because we say so or is it because there's an objective moral standard we all need to follow? But what if I create a society that says it's okay to molest children and to rape them and.

Beat them?

Is that acceptable? What if I get a larger society that overwhelms your society, we become the larger society,.

Does it make it right?

Because we're larger, because we come to a consensus on it. So the question I have to ask you, if your view of reality, your view of, say, morality and logic are simply based on the consensus of men, okay, isn't that totally arbitrary?

What if I just establish a civilization that makes them contrary to yours?

Well...

Let me ask you a question, is raping children wrong?

I do.

I feel it is.

I feel it's completely wrong.

If I rape a child, is it okay if I say that I believe that it's right?

Not to me, it's not.

Okay, not to you. But it's okay if I do it?

No, it's not okay.

Why?

Because it's not okay to me. It's wrong.

To me, though, it is.

Well, there are people like you.

Right.

That think it's okay to rape children.

Should I go to jail?

Well, I think you should.

Right. But why?

Shouldn't it be arbitrary?

Well, because the majority's with me and we can enforce it.

But what if I create a large majority that says raping children is okay?

Well, then you've got a lot of power.

The Arbitrariness of Consensus-Based Morality

Do you guys see the arbitrariness and inconsistency of the material world view?

It wants to...

One second, one second. It has to borrow... It has to borrow realities and truths from my world view about an objective moral standard in order to make sense of its own. And when you press and challenge this world view, it cannot make sense of itself except to say, well, it's wrong for me.