June 5, 2025 Show with Andrew Rappaport on “A Revival of Faithful Leadership”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this fifth day of June 2025.

I'm thrilled to have an old friend back on the program. His name is not going to be unfamiliar to most of you, Andrew Rappaport. He's an author, highly sought after conference speaker, and the founder of strivingforeternity .org.

And today we're going to be addressing a revival of faithful leadership, which is also the theme of his message scheduled for the upcoming Road to Revival Conference in Tullahoma, Tennessee this September, where Andrew is one of eight speakers.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Andrew Rappaport.

Thank you very much, Chris.

It is always a joy to be on here. I will admit my favorite episode of being on here with you was the one where I flipped the script and I got to interview you. And I encourage folks to go back and listen to that one because you have a great testimony and I think people should know more about it.

Yeah, well, people can look that up on the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio archive. Just type in Rappaport in the search engine and you will have it. Well, tell our listeners something about striving for eternity.

Striving for eternity is a discipleship ministry. So we're not doing just creation or evangelism or apologetics. We try to do everything to give tools to churches. We actually kind of more target those churches that are struggling, smaller churches that most parachurch ministries won't come in to try to help because there's no money.

There's not many people. So we come in and do like weekend seminars, give them that big conference feeling within their local church. We disciple podcasters through our Christian podcast community. We use books and things like that to help people to grow in their faith.

So that's really what we're trying to do.

Well, it has become quite amazing that nearly every conference that I am discovering on the Internet where there are Sovereign Grace believing teachers on the speaking roster, you're one of them. That's something to praise God about that you are very frequently requested to offer your wisdom and knowledge of the scriptures to participate in these events.

Or it could just be that I don't have a speaking fee.

Yeah, that could be it.

Yeah, no, it is the way I do things. A lot of the speakers have set fees. I don't. But yeah, it is a privilege to be able to get to travel around. The one we're talking about tonight, that is, Jeffrey Rice is the guy who's hosting it and his church there in Tullahoma.

It has been a conference that he's done a couple of years. And I'll tell you, if you haven't been to one of the conferences there, it is a neat way that he organized it. Now, Chris, I know you go to a lot of conferences.

What Jeffrey does when he plans it is like one hour of preaching followed by one hour of fellowship. And you don't get a lot of that. Usually what it is, it's back to back to back to back to speaking.

And a lot of people come to conferences for the fellowships. As you know, Chris, conferences are just a great place to get together with fellow brothers and sisters in Christ and just be able to have like mindedness and seriousness of thought about the scriptures.

And you get that when you're at a conference with a lot of folks. But a lot of times you don't have the time because you don't want to miss any of the messages. And Jeffrey has organized it in such a way that you get lots of fellowship time along with lots of preaching from good preachers.

That's because he's trying to promote gluttony. I'm only kidding.

No, because there's not a lot of food. Really what it is, is it's, you know, and I'll throw this out there for any podcasters to contact him. You know, one thing that I saw from the very first conference he did, as soon as the conference speaker got done, they made their way around to the different podcasts that are there and just started doing interviews.

And there's the time for that. So it's really good. It's also good if anyone wants to have a vendor booth there, just saying, because a lot of the conferences that it's so much focused on the speaking, you never can make it out to the vendor booth.

And so a lot of times people complain that our vendors, because they're like, well, you know, no one came to the table because not all the conference speakers plan time for folks to do that. And so it makes it good for that as well.

Well, it can be quite humbling. I've been to, as you know, many G3 conferences, and I hope that the failures of Josh Bice do not permanently destroy that ministry. But that was my favorite conference.

I loved being there at the National Conference in Atlanta. But it can be quite humbling to have a booth right across from James White's, as I have done many times, because he will have a line about 50 yards long of people waiting to talk to him as I sit there by myself, you know, twiddling my thumbs.

In fact, you said that you're invited to speak at so many conferences because you don't have a fee. I have actually the reverse issue. I get paid a lot of money by people running conferences to stay away from them.

So maybe I should try that.

You know, this and this is this is a funny thing is I I was actually contacted to speak at the Flat Earth Society conference. I don't know. I don't know how they got a hold of me. And I have said for years that I will go anywhere as long as they don't tell me what I can say.

And so I figured if they want me there. All right. They they wanted me to submit my topic. And my topic was going to be why the Earth has to be a sphere. I never heard back from them.

How the heck did they come up with the notion that you were a flat earther?

Could it be that I told them that?

I don't know. Maybe. Well, you got Jeffrey Rice has a quite a lineup over there in Tullahoma, Tennessee. You are one of eight speakers. And let me let our listeners know who the speakers are. Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, who is also my upcoming speaker at the Iron Trip and Zion Radio Free Pastors Luncheon on Tuesday, July 20th.

September 18th, Thursday, September 18th in Perry County, Pennsylvania, which will be held at the Church of the Living Christ in Loisville. But he's also speaking, as I just said, at the Roadmap to Revival Conference.

Keith Foskey, very good friend of mine for quite a long time. Jonathan Burris, who I just had on my program. Claude Ramsey, who I love interviewing, such a humble and dear brother, passionate preacher, Michael Schultz.

Jeremiah Nortier, who was a phenomenal guest on the show, Jeffrey Rice, who I'm hoping to have back. Am I missing anybody?

No, I think James White is going to be speaking twice. So he starts off the conference. I think I thought he's speaking twice. I thought he might be ending the conference, but maybe he's speaking on Sunday.

I'm not sure. But if I remember correctly, I thought he was speaking twice. But yeah, it's a yes, he is. It's on the whole idea of it. Yeah, so he's what we have there is the idea of revival. Right. So James White's going to be speaking on the revival of the authority of scripture.

I'll speak, as you mentioned in your opening, on the revival of faithful leadership. Keith is going to be speaking on revival begins in the house of God. Jonathan Burris, which is the only speaker I don't know, is going to speak on the revival through repentance.

And you mentioned Claude. Claude is, as you said, one of the most passionate preachers. He's going to talk on a topic of the cost of revival speaking, sorry, on revival, the cost on revival. And then that's the first day.

The second day, we're going to have Michael Schultz, who, Michael, if I think he came to the first conference that Jeffrey Rice had as a fill in for somebody, and when he got done, everyone's like, who is this guy?

Yeah, he's got good. He's got quite the academic background.

Oh, yes.

Yeah, he's he's a great, a great preacher. And then you have, as you mentioned, Jeremiah Nortier is, oh, I didn't mention Michael's topic is going to be revival through spirit-empowered preaching. And then Jeremiah's topic is revival through a confessional church.

And then Jeffrey Rice will talk on revival through the gospel. So a lot of great topics there.

Yeah, by the way, you said that you didn't know Jonathan Burris. He has quite the glowing commendation for you when he was on my program. He was giving you such a lofty commendation. I was wondering, are you sure you're talking about Andrew Rathmore?

I would have the same question. Yeah, and I didn't get a chance to listen to that one with him on yet, but.

Well, it's going to be on the air.

And he'll meet me and get over that pretty quick.

Well, since you mentioned Jeremiah Nortier, not only is he going to be my guest on Thursday, the 19th of June to promote the same conference we're promoting today, but he's coming on Iron Trump and Zion Radio for two two-day debates.

Each debate is over a two-day period. And July 10th and 11th, he will be debating Jared K. Henry, who is a Nazarene pastor. And they're going to be debating on the ordination of women. And then two weeks from then, the 24th and 25th of July, he is debating Jared K. Henry again on can Christians be totally free from known sin on this earth?

So that's going to be a couple of exciting debates.

Yeah, he's. I have not seen his debates yet, but he does. He's very knowledgeable on the different subjects he covers. So they will be good.

He's also for a guy who debates, I don't know how many debates he's had, but he is one of the most humble debaters I've ever witnessed. And he's not at all a pushover either. Sometimes he could be so humble that you become a doormat in a debate.

But he's got the right balance there.

Yeah, it is. It is. Debating is something that is very interesting. So there's few people that can do it well. Either people lose track of what the purpose is and they start attacking character, which no longer becomes a debate, or what you have people is they want to have themselves heard.

I had a debate with a guy who did not understand. He asked for the debate. The debate topic was secular humanism is better for society than Christianity. Something like that. And he wanted to debate me on it.

And yet when it came time for cross-examination, he just did a monologue. He never asked a question. He just did a rebuttal. And so you do have people that try to do debates that don't understand what debate is.

I had a guy that debated me on Calvinism, wanted to debate. The topic he wanted was Calvinism is useless and dangerous. And we had two rounds of cross-examination. The first round of cross-examination, what I did was I asked him basically all five points of Calvinism without using the labels, just giving definitions.

And he agreed to all five. And it was funny because by the fifth point, people in the chat are going, checkmate, bingo, gotcha, because all of the Calvinists knew exactly what I was doing. And so I told him, congratulations, you're a Calvinist.

And then in the second round of cross, I just asked him to define total depravity, irresistible grace, and he had wrong definitions for all of them. And so my conclusion of the debate was, this is why you shouldn't be debating the topic of Calvinism.

You don't even understand it.

Well, that reminded me of years ago, back in 1996, when I arranged my very first debate with James White on the Marian dogmas. It was titled, Mary, sinner saved by grace or sinless queen of heaven. And it was really on all of the major Marian dogmas.

He had the debate with Jerry Matitox, who at that time, before he became a vacantist, was the darling of Catholic answers. But this brother came to my office for WMCA radio, which was in the church building where I worshiped, and he wanted posters for the debate, and he was all excited about it.

And he said, I love James White, and I just hate his Calvinism. So I just grabbed the Bible, opened up to Romans 9, and I said, I'm going to read something to you, and I want you to just respond to it.

And I read Romans 9, and he immediately, after I finished, said, you know who believes that? The biggest cult in the world, the Muslim religion. And I said, you just saw me open up a Bible and read right out of it.

This is Romans 9. And he said, yeah, but it's what you read into it. I said, I didn't read anything into it.

I just read it. It's amazing when you can just read Scripture and people are like, oh, I don't like your interpretation. I didn't interpret it.

Oh, and this is another thing that occurred, and I wish I had the tape for this. Years ago, when I was working for WNCA Radio, I got a call out of the blue from an elderly Orthodox Jewish retired journalist, and he said, I'm a student of the New Testament.

I've read it hundreds of times, but I'm not a Christian. And I want to debate this Baptist pastor in Brooklyn, New York, Lefferts Park. I was wondering if I could buy a three-hour slot of time on your station to do this.

So I called up the pastor, and we worked it out. And I'm listening to this debate at home on the radio, and the Jewish man says, so let me get this straight. You believe that before time began, that God chose some people for salvation and others he passed by who are going to hell.

And the Baptist pastor interrupts him, says, Ira, you got me all wrong, Ira. I'm not a Calvinist. He goes, you're not a what? I'm not a Calvinist. What you're talking about is Calvinism.

Calvinism?

I've never even heard that word. All I know is this is what your Bible, the New Testament teaches. And I called up the radio station, and I got the engineer on the phone. I said, please tell Ira to wait after the program is over, the debate is over, because I want to talk to him.

And I called him up and I said, Ira, you are interpreting the New Testament correctly. It's just a shame that you rejected. So, but that was remarkably funny.

Yeah, I don't know how many times, so I do a program you're familiar with called Apologize.

Live.

Actually, well, I'm recording in a few hours, but it's Thursday nights, 8 to 10. Anyone can come in. And a lot of times people prepare to debate me, and I'm not, I don't even know there's a debate, because anyone can come in anytime.

And I don't know how many times I just sit there and just read Scripture. I do nothing, just read the Scripture, and someone will be like, I don't like the way you interpreted that, or your interpretation is wrong.

I just read it. There's nothing I added to it.

Yeah.

And by the way, for those of our listeners who do not know you, Andrew is a Jewish believer and a Calvinist, which makes him more rare than a Bigfoot sighting. And I just got—.

There haven't been any Bigfoot sightings, in my theory.

So, really—.

Jeffrey Rice would disagree.

I got a message from Ted in Moundville, Alabama during our conversation, and he said, Andrew Rappaport is also the only Calvinist without a beard these days.

I, you know, Jeffrey Rice was planning this conference, I think it was going to be February or March, and they ended up canceling it, and now he's doing it again. But I actually was growing a beard for the conference just for that reason, and there are photos of me with a big bushy beard.

Wow, I've never seen you that way.

Oh, yeah.

I started it back in, I want to say, like, October, November, and I was going to let it go until the conference. And they canceled the conference in the end of December, so I just shaved it off since my wife doesn't like it.

But, you know, to the listener, let me just explain this. I do have a beard. I just keep it really, really short.

Yeah, I do not have a beard either, other than five o 'clock shadow. But one of the few, as the listener said, one of the few Calvinists that doesn't have.

One.

I think that sometimes beards have become virtue signals for Calvinists.

Yeah, you're probably right there.

Well, I am excited to talk about our topic today, and we're going to go to our first break. And when we return, we're going to start talking about a revival of faithful leadership. By the way, folks, please be patient with my voice today.

I just started coming down last night with something, a cold, a flu or something else resembling that. And so it is a bit of a struggle today for me to talk properly. But I hope that you are patient with me, and we're going to our first break.

If you have a question for Andrew, submit it to chrisarnson at gmail .com and give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.

At 11 a .m. I'm speaking to men in ministry leadership at Chris's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastor's Luncheon at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville. Then on Sunday, September 21st at 1 30 p .m. I'm speaking at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle on the theme.

Can we trust the Bible is the authentic and inerrant Word of God? I hope you can join Chris and me for both events. For more details on the Free Pastor's Luncheon, visit ironsharpensironradio .com. That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

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So please go to royaldiadem .com today and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And we are now back with Andrew Rappaport, founder of Striving for Eternity Ministries, and we are discussing his theme at the upcoming Roadmap to Revival Conference in Tullahoma, Tennessee, which is going to take place September 12th through the 13th.

And by the way, for more details on that conference, go to the website of Covenant Reform Baptist Church in Tullahoma, Tennessee, where it's being held, crbctullahoma .org, c-r-b-c-t-u-l-l-a-h-o-m-a .org, and click on Events, and you'll see all the details that you need to know.

But Andrew today is going to be speaking on a revival of faithful leadership. And Andrew, I think it would be wise, even though we've had a number of other guests define revival, because there are so many counterfeits of revival and so much ignorance and misunderstanding of what that actually means.

Why don't you define revival for us?

Yeah, well, first off, revival always starts with me, whoever you are, right? People look at a revival as something that happens outside, but really it's going to be when God starts doing something with individuals first, and that ends up—what many people think of when they think of a revival is the Great American Revival, things like this, where there's been a lot of people affected.

Now, you look in America, we had the First Great Awakening, followed by the Second, and people would refer to them as a revival. But you end up seeing that the first under faithful preaching was very different than the second, which was under moral preaching.

Charles Finney, who—maybe I'll just upset some folks in the audience—I don't believe he was saved, and I say that because he denied original sin.

And he denied that grace was necessary for regeneration.

Correct. Yeah, and so I find a hard time believing he could have been saved, but he was a great moral teacher, to the point where some say he was the reason that they outlawed alcohol in America. But it was just a moral system.

It wasn't the gospel that had a lasting change, so moralism couldn't have a short-term effect. We're sort of seeing it in America today, where all of a sudden people have had such a reaction to the pushing of Pride Month, which you think about what it was like last June compared to this June, and you see moralism being preached, but you're not seeing the gospel being preached.

We're hearing moralism from a White House, but look who he puts in charge of faith, a woman that claims to be a pastor who is a heretic. So she can't promote the gospel. So when we think about revival, we're not speaking of this major change across a country.

It leads to that. But revival always starts with the individual, and it is when you have an individual—and really think about the revivals of countries—it's when many people are coming to Christ, even if they either come to Christ or they were people who knew Christ but really were not living for him.

They were, as Jude would say, saved by fire. You know, they're still having the smell of fire on them. And so I think that what you end up seeing is that revival is something we have to recognize as people getting right with God and living for God, and it has major impacts on the rest of their life.

And when you have a growing number of people come under conviction of sin and coming to repentance, it can change a nation. This is what Jonah faced when he went to Nineveh. Now, Jonah is probably the world's worst evangelist because if you read chapter four, he tells you the last thing he wanted was for the Ninevites to get saved.

That's not a very good evangelist. I think he went up on.

The hill to watch God's destruction of Nineveh. That's basically just like Fred Phelps and the God Hates Fags movement. They had no interest in homosexuals repenting and coming to Christ.

They didn't even think it was possible. Yeah, and they rejoice when you have someone die. Yes. That's in that. And that's very much Jonah, which sounds crazy to say a prophet of God, but he says, he said to God, the reason he did not want to go to Nineveh is because he knew God would give mercy to them, and he didn't want them having mercy.

But what happened? You had Jonah preaching about a judgment, and they realized they were under God's judgment, and one by one, getting right with God, there was a national revival. And so if you have a revival, I forget, you know, the university, the supposed Christian university, that they can plan a revival.

You know, they're like, oh, look, it was like the fourth or fifth time they've had a revival, and everyone's like going down to that university to check it out. And then they say, okay, the revival's over.

Well, that's not how revivals work. You can't plan it, because it's not an act of human beings. It's an act of God on human beings. And this is the first thing that people often misunderstand, because they just think revival is getting people emotionally excited or morally on a right path.

And that's not what revival is. Revival is going to be getting right with God and seeing a large number of people recognizing their sin, repenting of their sin, confessing their sin, and bowing their knee to Jesus Christ.

And that's why I say revival starts with me, not me personally, but you as a listener. It starts with you. Don't pray for a revival to happen around you like that's going to get you excited for the Lord.

Pray that the Lord will do a revival starting with you. And so that's what the conference is going to be about.

Now, I understand what you mean by revival starts with you. But in reality, I know that you agree with me, since you're a Calvinist. It really starts with God, doesn't it?

Yeah, and that's what I was saying. People think that they're going to be part of a revival when some outside source is going to get them emotionally going. And that's not what it is. It's going to be God working, as I had said earlier, God working on people.

God is the one that's going to bring about in your life either a genuine repentance or a brokenness. I think it's Roy Hennessey has a book, Calvary's Road, which he talks about revival. And the first chapter that he talks about for revival—and again, he would agree that it's not a worldwide thing or a mass nation thing—it's individual, that God works on people.

And the first thing he says is a brokenness. People have to be broken over their sin. And then the second thing is a filling of the Holy Spirit. And we have to recognize our own sinfulness. And if there's Christians—so Christians are already believers, they've already been regenerated—but there's plenty of them that want to see a revival, but they're looking for a revival in the church.

So the church should do something to make me feel like I'm part of a revival. And that's what I'm trying to address, is that revival is when God.

Works on your heart. That's what I mean by that. And so now connect it with your intention.

To discuss a revival of faithful leadership. Well, we have seen, unfortunately—you even referenced one earlier in the program—a failure of public leaders, Christian speakers. I don't even have to mention names.

Many of you in the audience, you're already thinking of some of the big-name people who had a major impact on your life. Their preaching was excellent, and you loved it, and they got a lot out of it.

The people whose books you would read, the people who now you want to burn their books or throw them away because these guys have failed. I'm not saying you need to burn the books or throw them away. I'm actually against that.

I think we could take the good things we've learned from the folks.

Yeah, many of my pastors' luncheons, when I had been given by major publishers free brand-new books to give away to the pastors, many of those luncheons had books featured that were written by Stephen Lawson.

And obviously, I'm not going to keep doing that, but it's a shame that those books filled with wonderful content are going to be most likely ignored, and I understand why.

Yeah, and the content he had was good.

Yes, of course.

But obviously, we might not want to put him at a pulpit again, but that's another example of someone that had such a major impact on so many people. And there were people that were like, I feel let down.

My faith is struggling, and I was over Steve Lawson's sin. Like, your faith should be anchored in Christ, not a preacher. And I really think, Chris, one of the problems—we find a lot of value in social media, right?

You and I met through social media. We do podcasting, which is a form of that medium. And so there's a lot of benefits from it. I've gained a lot of good teaching from men using social media, YouTube, things like this, where I get to hear people's preaching, that are not my pastor.

And that social media, though good, can be good, can also very easily create people that once they start getting kind of a following, it becomes contagious. And it's the difference that I refer to as doing ministry versus platform building.

Their ministry, you're doing it for God, and it's not about how much you get paid, how many followers you get, how many likes you get, things like that, versus platform building, where people are going to be calculated to go, well, I'm going to—and I've seen this.

You have too, Chris, where people will say things they know are provocative just to get attention. They'll word things that are clickbait just to get you to click on something to go to their website. And then you read the article or listen to the podcast, and it's like, you really didn't cover that.

Right, right. I see that on YouTube all the time. It happens more and more, even from not necessarily Christian men, but maybe you've seen that more than I have, but political issues where I typically agree with the host, and then you see this provocative title that they put on their YouTube recording of this, and then you go to the actual video, and what they're talking.

About didn't even happen. Yeah, yeah. Or they never cover the topic or they just cover it at the end, like in passing, and it was like, wait, this was not what you said. I personally think that Christians should never do clickbait.