#85 Understanding Original Translations of Your Favorite Scriptures + Dr. Kevin Grasso

Today we're going to talk about some verses that you know, you love, but do you really know them? I have brought in the expert, literally

Dr. Kevin Grasso. You're a biblical scholar, linguist, the co -founder and CEO of Biblingo.

All translations are interpretations. It's not necessarily bad. It just is. Ephesians 6, we do not wrestle against flesh and blood.

As a Sunday school Christian just thought that meant there's some bad guys out there. If Paul wanted to say that we wrestle with sin, he would have said we wrestle with sin.

Why didn't he just say like demons? Demons are our real spiritual beings.

This is good. Hello, hello.

Welcome to Biblically Speaking. My name is Cassian Bellino and I'm your host. In this podcast, we talk about the

Bible in simple terms with experts, PhDs and scholarly theologians to make understanding

God easier. These conversations have transformed my relationship with Christ and understanding of religion.

Now I'm sharing these recorded conversations with you. On this podcast, we talk about the facts, the history and the translations to make the

Bible make sense so we can get to know God, our creator better. Hi, it's

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Thank you so much for listening. Now let's get to the show. Hello, hello. Welcome to Biblically Speaking. I'm your host,

Cassian Blino. Today, we're going to talk about some verses that you know you love, but do you really know them?

Do you read them in the original translation and you know how they were said with the original intent?

I don't. And so I feel like there's a lot of verses that I've been reading wrong. What do they actually mean in Hebrew?

What do they actually mean in Greek? I have brought in the expert that can do all the translations for us.

Literally, Dr. Kevin Grasso. You are a Biblical... Beyond just knowing translations, you're a

Biblical scholar. You're an author. You're a linguist. You also have a PhD in Hebrew language from the

Hebrew University of Jerusalem, where you spent five years that we were just talking about. You have a master's degree in linguistics.

You focus on the Biblical Hebrew verbal system. You have a master's degree in comparative religion. You focus on Paul and the

Second Temple Judaism. And this has led you to become the co -founder and CEO of Biblingo, which is an innovative platform that essentially allows you to read the

Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek. Welcome to the show. This is going to be fun. Thanks, Cassie.

I'm also very excited. So language kind of seems like it's taken over your life. Why did you choose that?

Yeah, honestly, the original sort of impetus was just trying to understand the

Bible. So I got into theology and, you know, Biblical interpretation and realized that, you know, a lot of the sort of theological discussions that people were having were really about what

Greek words and Hebrew words meant. And so if I was going to engage seriously in those kinds of conversations,

I needed to learn those languages. Yeah. Okay, got it. Was there any like big surprises that you kind of learned along the way of like, oh, people don't know this or people have been getting this verse wrong so much?

Yeah, basically every day that happens to me. So honestly, it's been something where as I have, you know, gotten better and better at these languages,

I have realized more and more just how influenced I am personally by my own

English translations. So, you know, you just you grow up, you're reading a particular translation, which, you know, all translations are interpretations necessarily.

So it's not necessarily bad. It's just it just is. And so I'm reading it through someone else's understanding.

And so, you know, when I go back to the original, I often just see things in a different way.

And so it's honestly, it's hard to even like quantify. It's just a completely different experience of reading the

Bible, really. Well, I'm excited to have that experience myself, because what we're going to do today is a classic biblically speaking format.

I'm going to read a couple verses, and I'm going to just show I'm going to try to represent the general understanding of it.

When I read this, this is what I thought, you know, they don't really go much deeper in church. How should

I? Let's clarify it. We'll get through as many as we can in the next 60 minutes. Starting off, we're going to start with Ephesians 6, 12.

Ephesians 6, 12. This one's a classic. And just with all the work on demons that I've done, I feel like I kind of understand what's what's being said.

But I'll try to go back to how I used to read it. Ephesians 6, 12, for we for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces.

And that's in the ESV. So before I did all that demon work on understanding, you know, kind of where this might have come from, and like the unseen realm,

I, as a Sunday school Christian, just thought that meant there's some bad guys out there, you know, for we don't wrestle with the bad guys here on earth.

We wrestle with something bigger than ourselves. I feel like that's like a pretty, you know, generic understanding of it.

Is that what the text says? Yeah, so I think you're exactly right, that there's a tendency to sort of like make these cosmic powers and authorities just more tangible or things that we know in our

Western culture. So, you know, this like vague, general idea of sin or evil or something like that.

But you are you are exactly right. I mean, these these words, I mean, if Paul wanted to say that we wrestle with sin, he would have said we wrestle with sin, right?

That's just not what he's what he said, right? And so the question is, what do these words mean? And how do they function in Paul's Second Temple Jewish context?

And in that context, demons are are real spiritual beings and they have power to influence humans.

And so because of that, you have to resist that through, you know, what

Paul says is palais, you know, to wrestle. It is a is a wrestling match.

And so this this word is also used, you know, for example. So this is the noun.

The verb is used in Genesis for, you know, Jacob wrestling with the angel, right?

And so it's the same kind of idea of you wrestling, struggling with these cosmic powers that are trying to have influence over you.

And so to him, it is a very real, tangible thing that's happening every day. But yeah, to us,

I think you're exactly right. We normally don't we don't understand the spiritual, the like truly spiritual dimension of of what's going on.

So if he was so it's implying that he's wrestling with these demons, why didn't he just use a word like demons?

I think that's what always threw me is the the rulers, the authorities, the cosmic powers like this type of understanding for it made it seem like it wasn't demons.

Why didn't he just say like, like legion was, they say demons there. Why weren't they saying demons here?

Yeah, so I think what Paul is trying to bring out is the fact that they have power and influence.

So a text like Jubilees 15 is a good example of this. So Jubilees is a work written before the

New Testament time, probably second or third century BC. And it's about it's kind of like a retelling sort of of the story of Genesis and and Exodus.

So it's Moses receives the it's

Moses's reception of, you know, basically other teachings, okay, from Sinai. And in Jubilees 15, it says, but he chose

Israel, he being God, that they might be a people for himself. And he sanctified them and gathered them from all of the sons of man, because there are many nations and many people, and they all belong to him.

But over all of them, he calls spirits to rule so that they might lead them astray from following him.

But over Israel, he did not cause any angel or spirit to rule because he alone is their ruler, and he will protect them, he will seek for them at the hand of his angels, at the hand of his spirits, and at the hand of all of his authorities so that he might guard them and bless them.

So the idea is that there are Israel, right, in context of Jubilees, is guarded and has a certain authority over them, namely,

God, right? And so that is distinct from the authority or rulers of the other nations, which have spirits ruling over them that are leading them astray from God.

And so that's, I think, exactly what Paul is picking up on here, is that these other spirits, right, are the rulers of Gentile nations.

And if you were a Gentile, that's what you were being ruled by.

And so if you come into the people of God, right, you are now wrestling against the things that once ruled over you.

Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That's actually connecting way more dots than beyond translations.

Yes. That whole theory, like, out of Babel, where, like, the spirits were sent out after Babel and that's, like, a whole other episode and it's covered that in other episodes,

I didn't realize that there was a Jubilee verse that was essentially confirming all of that, essentially saying, like, hey, those spirits that we did send out that did lead you astray that you do honor as a

Gentile absolutely is bringing you farther away from God. Like, oh my gosh, that's, like, where other religions began.

That's so crazy. Okay. Oh, I love this clarity. I love when it all complements each other. Yep. Yep, for sure.

So Paul's being literal here. He's—this isn't, like, a metaphor. This isn't, like, we're talking in a euphemism.

He's directing demons. And I guess my other question, and I don't know if this is, like, something you can answer is, did people talk about demons openly like this?

Or was he kind of saying, like, hey, did you guys know there were demons? Or they were like, oh yeah, the demons that we know about. Yeah. No, I mean,

I think way, way more openly than we do today. I mean, I think—and obviously you see this in the Gospels themselves, right, where demons are just part of life.

And, you know, you cast them out and they might come back and whatever. So I will say, you know, the question of, like, you know, literal versus metaphorical, like, it's not literal in the sense—in the same way that, like,

Jacob wrestled with the angel, right? Okay. Like, there was a being there that Jacob was, like, you know, grappling, like, physically grappling, right?

And so I think this is—honestly, I think the literal versus metaphorical distinction is sometimes not always the most helpful one in that, like, it is actual literal wrestling, but it's not physical wrestling, right?

And so there are actually spiritual forces, right, that are grappling for, you know, the

Ephesians' obedience, right? And they have to actually wrestle with them.

But it is not wrestling like you would watch on television, right?

So that's—I think, you know, I would want to say it is a real struggle, a real physical—or a real actual struggle with these demons, but it's not a physical one in the same way that, you know, you might think of as wrestling.

Interesting. Okay. I think we're going great. We're doing great on time. I'm going to keep going and we'll hit the next one.

1 Peter 2 .24. I'm pretty sure I have actually spent a little bit of time on this in an episode with Dr.

James Saddler, so he also does a lot of linguistics. But this one is pretty common. I mean, he bore himself—he himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness, by whose wounds you have been healed.

Just as a blanket reaction, what's the big deal? You know, like, I feel like that is literally what we believe in as Christians of like, yeah, he died for our sins, and that is why, you know, he gave his grace to us.

What is the big ruckus about it? Like, what about this? Is it because they call it a tree and not a cross?

You know, to me, there's no problem with this verse. Why is there misconceptions about it? Yeah, I think there's several things going on here.

So one is the toksulon, so that is the tree piece. So you—so that's the

Greek word for tree. Interestingly, I mean, this word—so it's also, you know, quoted by Paul in Galatians 3 .13,

right, where it curses anyone who hangs on a tree. And so in that context,

I think it's basically the same context in 1 Peter here, right, is the idea is that it's a reference to Deuteronomy 21, and it is basically saying that the person who hangs on a tree has taken on the covenant curses.

So, you know, Deuteronomy is a treaty. That is our understanding of it, covenant treaty.

It's an agreement between God, Yahweh, and Israel. And so the part of the stipulation of that agreement is that Israel obeys.

And so if, you know, they don't, right, they would be cursed.

So this would just be part of that curse, right, is that you would be—you would hang on a tree.

This has a lot to do with, again, just more background information, like the—it was seen as bad to not have your body buried.

So, you know, for example, you know, David says to Goliath, you know, the birds of the heavens will eat your carcass, right?

So that was a—it was a bad thing to them to not only be killed, but also to have your body not properly buried or disposed of.

So to hang on a tree, right, you would be cursed because you would have the birds come and eat your body and you wouldn't be properly buried.

And so here, like, you know, in this context, it's clearly drawing on imagery from Isaiah 53.

And then the idea is that, you know, the Messiah has taken on the covenant curse for his people.

There's a lot—so that's one thing, okay? I will say just the—this word tree is actually—there's another word in Greek that I would normally think of as tree, dendron.

This is xylon. It's more properly like wood, but it's also used for, like, the tree of life.

So it's—there's a lot of resonances of this word with a lot of different things. In the Bible, all kinds of things going on.

The other thing is—so the big question is, like, okay,

Jesus is cursed on the tree or on the wood, right, which makes, like I said, makes the resonances with the cross, like, fit better.

But the question is, like, you know, what does it mean to do so for sins?

So I think that—so there's a number, again, a number of, like, ways you can do this.

But I think in this context, the idea is not really about forgiveness as much as transformation.

So, you know, the phrase te dikaios unes deisomen, like, we will live in righteousness.

Again, I don't even know. I don't even know about the ESV. We might die to sin and live to righteousness, right?

So the idea is that you are transformed, right? You die to sin, and you live differently.

You now live righteously because of the sacrifice that Jesus made.

Again, we normally think of Jesus' sacrifice, forgiveness. I would say that in this context, it's more

Jesus' sacrifice, transformation. And I would say that's honestly the normal kind of context of Jesus' sacrifice, but that's a whole other discussion as well.

Okay, that—okay, there's a verb here that says—basically translates bore, what it means in Greek. Is that—like, what role is that playing here?

That he bore his— Bore. Bore our sins. Yeah, so again, this is the—this word is the word that's often used for, like, offering a sacrifice in the

Old Testament. So you can say something like, ἀνένενκεν τὸ πρόβατον.

So it's he brought his—the sheep, right? So this is—this is the word brought.

And so this is—so this is where some of the debate has been that, like, how exactly do we understand, like, what's being brought, right?

So the problem is, like, ἀτὸς ἁμαρτίας, the sins, our sins, is most likely referring to actual sins.

They also—in theory, it could also refer to sin offering. That's the same word.

But I think it is actually referring to sins. So it—while it is picking up on sort of, like, cultic language and offering things on an altar, right?

So you would normally—you could, you know, bring a sin offering to an altar, on an altar.

So in this case, something's being brought, sins, and then the ἀπον is on the tree, right?

So I think it's picking up on all this cultic language, but it's transforming it to say that, you know, basically,

Jesus brought this offering of sin onto the tree, right?

The reason why I wouldn't—I would, like, want to be very, very careful with that is offerings, like, sacrifices are not ever sinful, right?

They're unblemished. They are, you know, they're not supposed to be tainted in any way.

So while I do think it is picking up on these sorts of images, I don't think it's envisioning, like, this death in a sacrifice in the same way that the

Old Testament sacrificial system does sacrifices. I want to take a minute and say thank you to the recording service that has made this podcast possible,

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Thank you so much. Now back to the show. Okay, that definitely has a lot of context. Okay, I think we're doing great on time.

I just want to make sure we hit all the right ones. So I'm going to go ahead and skip to Psalm 137, 9.

And spice it up a little bit. Sure, yeah. So I'm sure you know, maybe you're a

Christian who just opened up the Bible, and you see this guy, and you see, Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock.

What? So you tell me, what do you do with this verse?

You know, killing babies. It's honorable. You know, blessed be the ones that actually take it up. And I don't know, this is crazy.

Like, there has to be more context before and below. Like, we've got to sandwich this in here that this is just one verse that, you know, this has to be satirical.

This has to be facetious, unless it's honoring kind of like, the infanticide that you see with Moses, and then at Jesus's birth.

Like, that's like the only context I have without any further explanation. Yeah, so I think there's basically two things that you can do with this.

Two things that have been done by scholars. One is just to say that the psalmist is wrong.

Just so, so, so like, Do we know who the psalmist is? No. So, so here, here's what we know.

If I can just read, I'll read just in English, the first part, the first verse.

This is the ESV. By the waters of Babylon, there we sat down and wept when we remembered Zion. Okay, so this already gives us the context of what's happening, right?

This is after the exile. People are in Babylon, and they are remembering

Zion. Okay, so this is people who have obviously experienced exile and war and pain.

And so, they, it goes on, on the willows there, we hung up our lyres.

For there our captors required of us songs and our tormentors mirth saying, sing us one of the songs of Zion.

So they're asked to sing, and they say, we're not going to sing for you. How should we sing the Lord's song in a foreign land?

If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget its skill. Yada, yada, yada. So skipping down to verse eight, just before when you brought up,

O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed, blessed shall he be who repays you with what you have done to us.

Okay, so now, so the idea is that Babylon has done all these terrible things to them, right?

And the person who repays them for what they have done is blessed.

Okay, and then blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock. The idea being that they did it, right?

And they deserve that to be done to them, right? So this sort of like, very similar to an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, right?

So if, again, there are two options here. You can say that this is just, it is

God's rightful covenant curse coming upon people who have acted wrongly to others first, right?

Sorry, I shouldn't say rightful covenant curse, rightful judgment coming to people who have done this to others.

Again, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. You could also say that the people who are writing were not necessarily right or justified in wishing this upon or in saying that it's actually blessed to do this.

So just to back up, whatever idea you have of inspiration, like we know this has to be the case that not everything everyone says in the

Bible is true, right? So like Job's friends. That is scary. Well, so just roll with me.

Whoa, you're unraveling me. So like Job's friends, right? Job's friends offer him, by and large, bad advice, right?

And that's just okay. It's just, it's reporting something, right? And so this is part of the problem with the

Psalms. It's not a problem, but just it's a different kind of literature. It's reporting what people are feeling, right?

And so this report of what people are feeling may or may not be good, right?

It could just be that this person, whoever is writing this

Psalm is obviously, well, they obviously are very upset, right? And they are unwilling to forgive and unwilling to pray, love their enemies, right?

In a way that is, in a way that would be honoring to God, right? So that's just, it just is, right?

It's not right or wrong, right? The Psalms often just are expressions of what people feel.

And so in that sense, again, the point is not, it's not endorsing. I think any way you take it, it's not endorsing dashing little ones against rocks, right?

It's saying either one, that this Psalmist is expressing a feeling that is not necessarily good, or two, that the

Psalmist is expressing a principle of you will be judged in the way that you acted before, right?

Which again, the eye for an eye, tooth for tooth thing, like that's very common. Yeah, Old Testament, because then

Jesus comes and he's like, your right hand don't know what your left hand does, and turn the other cheek. So is this common?

Like, is that just how people were lamenting back then that God was okay with? Like, I think there is an element of like, sure, they're wrong.

Nobody's endorsing this, but that is how they were allowed to feel enough in a way that they were being represented in written form.

So God's like, yeah, like that's how it was back then. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it is,

I do think, again, this is something you have to be careful with, but like, you know, it does seem like in the

Sermon on the Mount, there is a distinction between, you know, we used to say an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, but now

Jesus is saying like, you actually shouldn't do that anymore, right? You should not just repay people back the wrong that they've done to you.

And so I do think that it's okay again to say, well, that's the principle reflected in this text, but it's not a principle that Christians should abide by necessarily, right?

Because that is based on the command we have from Jesus to love your enemies, right?

I think it is very difficult to square that text with this text.

And again, I would just say that that's okay. They're doing different things. At the very least, this is not a commandment, right?

No one's commanding anyone to do anything here. It is an expression of a feeling, right?

They think that it is good for Babylon to be repaid in this way, in the way that they treated them.

But that feeling is not the same as being commanded to do that. Okay, that's fair.

Is this, okay, so this is more of like a trauma that they are kind of let being said because that is how they were sharing how they felt in the time of amidst an exile, as anybody would.

Right, exactly. They had their kids dashed upon the rock. Blessed is the one who does the same thing to Babylon, right?

Again, I would encourage people to not make a value judgment about whether it's right or wrong.

But just to say that this is, like if you're reading someone's journal, right?

And they are expressing how they're feeling, like it's not right or wrong, right?

That's not the point, right? The point is like, this is how bad exile is. This is what we're feeling, right?

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Take a breath, slow down, and dwell in the good things. Now back to the show. Okay, that's fair.

Okay, um, I'm gonna go forward with second. I think I can like fit in like two or three more. So I'm gonna.

Okay. Yeah, wherever you, whatever you want. Okay. Second Corinthians 1210.

I feel like this is a good one because if you're an early Christian, you look at this and you're like, what am I supposed to do with that?

What? Like, this doesn't make any sense. And like, this is almost, I always like to call this, and I say this with love, the masochistic

Christianity where you're like, I love when it's hard because, and like, you know, because God could show up.

Like that's the ending of that sentence. But second Corinthians 1210 is, for the sake of Christ, then I am content with weakness, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities.

For when I am weak, I am strong. I feel like that's just positive thinking. Just keep it together.

It's like, is there something that, like it's similar. Is it just that? Like, what am I missing here?

I mean, it could be. There again are, you know, several things going on.

The one thing I would point out to begin with, this first verb, that I am content.

I think content is too weak. So this is the same verb.

It's a weak translation of it, you mean? Yes, yes. So like, it's not a strong enough word.

So el doco is the word. This is the same word that's used in, like Mark, for example, this is my beloved son in whom

I am well -pleased, right? It's el doquesa, it's the same word. So well -pleased.

Way deeper than content. Like I am proud of. Yep, yep, yep. So I would say, so honestly,

I think that verse is also mistranslated. I would say that it's better to understand it as approved.

So like, the idea is that the Holy Spirit falls on him. This is my beloved son. I approve of him, right?

This is the guy that I've approved of. It's not a reflection of - It's totally different than well -pleased. Well -pleased is like, we've made a contract and he's fulfilled it and I'm pleased with his work.

I approved is like, stamp of approval. We're moving forward with this one.

Yes, I think that's exactly what's going on. So it's just before Jesus starts his ministry. So the whole point is that Jesus is in front of the crowd, near John the

Baptist and his crowd, and God wants everyone to know that this is the guy.

I approve of him, right? And so this is the same word. So content is really, like I said, it's too weak, right?

You could say like, I approve of or I accept, right? So again, the point is that it's not just a feeling of contentment.

In fact, I would say it's really not a feeling. It's really not about feeling. And there are plenty of examples of this verb where you don't feel good about what you're accepting.

And so the point is that you might not like weakness and insults and hardships, persecutions and calamities, but you might still accept them, right?

You accept them. Why would you accept them? You accept them for a greater good. I mean, it's like, no one,

I mean, if you, I don't know if you work out or are into the fitness world at all.

Yeah, love workout. Great, yeah. So I'm very much in that world as well.

And so if you do a really hard workout, right? And if you really destroy yourself, you can do that, right?

And no one really likes that. I mean, you can push yourself to the point where no one's having fun anymore.

Like fun was a long time ago, and now I'm just feeling pain. Oh, I'm feeling pain right now.

Like from days ago workouts. So it's even like, I'm still just trying for a workout the other day. You're like,

I still can't walk. Right, right, right. So like, but you do that because there's a greater good, right?

So for the sake of something else, I will do that. I will put myself in those situations.

And so like, for when I am weak, then I am strong. The point is not necessarily like, you know, the point is like, when

I experience those things, I get more of Christ, you know, I get stronger. When I experience pain, when

I work out, I get stronger, right? And that's good. I know that I know that that end is better than me experiencing pain in the short run.

And that's exactly what. That makes the ending make sense. For when I am weak, I am, then I am strong. So I think

I was reading it more like, for when I'm weak, I'm strong, you know, just kind of like positive thinking. But it's like, for when

I go through these weaknesses, it's therefore giving me the strength to be strong in the future. Right, right.

And it's good because I'm doing it for the sake of Christ. I'm getting more of Christ in those situations, right?

And so I accept those things, right? I accept that small pain in order to get stronger.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, I'm gonna sneak in a couple because I want to end on which one?

Isaiah seven, because that feels very Christmassy. Okay, yeah. And we're recording this, you know, a week before Christmas.

But I feel like let's do Deuteronomy six five because I feel like any

Sunday school Christian would be like, got it, know it. And so let's clarify it. You know, do we actually know it?

Is you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your might. What are we getting wrong here?

That seems pretty straightforward. Am I allowed to back up and do Deuteronomy six four?

Absolutely. Because I think they go together. Okay, okay. So I think, okay.

So this is probably the most famous verse within Judaism today. Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad is what it is in Hebrew.

It's normally translated, this is the ESV, hero Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one, okay?

So I think that this last one is really problematic in the translation.

So it is true that if you were to just like copy and paste

English word, Hebrew word, this is what it would be, okay? But it's not always good to do that.

And I think it leads to misunderstandings. So I think that Echad is better translated as the only one.

So the whole point is, and there's a number of reasons I can give for that.

But the whole point is, it's listen Israel, the Lord or Yahweh is our

God. Yahweh is the only one. Meaning you should not be loyal to any other

God, right? Yahweh is the only God that you should have and be loyal to, okay? So in that context, then the, you should love the

Lord your God, right? What is love in this context? It's loyalty.

And this is very common in Ancient Near Eastern treaties, where if you, like two kings that made a treaty together would use this kind of language to talk about their loyalty, their devotion to the other king, right?

It doesn't mean they had this like feeling of like, oh, I love you, right?

It means you were loyal, right? You were willing to protect and do whatever you said.

Just to put in context. So this language makes sense for us because we're talking about the

God that we love. The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might.

That to me feels appropriate to turn to a God that you serve and say that. How, you're saying this is language that kings would use.

How would a king say that to another king if they were like pledging loyalty? Well, yeah, the point would be that this love language is not necessarily always like a feeling, right?

If it is just, it is language of loyalty. And so it can be used without the feelings, right?

If one king is saying to another, hey, we have this covenant. I'm going to love you, right?

It doesn't mean that they like have these like great feelings for the other king. It just means that like they will be loyal to them insofar as the covenant has stipulated they are loyal to them.

I just imagine like two kings on the phone and they're like, I love you. And he's like, I love you too. I love you too, yeah.

Exactly, except they didn't have phones. But yes, they would write in, you know, tablets and send it to them.

So just to point out here that like this love language is drawing upon this covenant idea.

And the one language before is saying the same thing, right? It's not talking about God's oneness or like,

I wouldn't say it's talking about monotheism either. It's talking about how Yahweh should be the exclusive God of Israel, right?

And so then the question is, what does this look like, right? It means that you should be devoted.

You should be loyal with all of your heart, with all of your soul and with all of your might. So in these three words, right?

There's, again, a number of things that we could discuss. The heart in Hebrew, I would say this word heart, it just means something closer to mind.

It is, you know things with your heart. So in English, when we say, oh,

I know it in my heart, it usually means like, you know it in your heart, but you're really wrong, right? You can know it's in your heart, but like, you know, whatever.

But in Hebrew, if you know it in your heart, it means that like, it's true, right?

Like you don't just know in your heart, you know in your mind. So this word heart is,

I think, better translated mind. The word soul is, again, like tricky.

There's a lot of different translations for it. Originally, it meant, so like in Akkadian, and there's maybe one instance of this in the

Hebrew Old Testament, it could mean throat. And that's kind of like what it originally referred to.

Soul meant throat? Yes. So it meant, it referred to your throat in Akkadian.

And the idea is that that's where life is. So if you take out your throat, you know, you have, it's life, right?

And so this is often translated life. So if you like take someone's life, you take their nefesh. Their throat, the thing from which life emanates.

But it's also then used for like desires, right? So I would say here, it is more talking about your desires.

So it is, yeah. So there are lots of examples where, you know, this word is just referring to whatever things you like.

And your core desire should be for the Lord. Yes, yes, exactly. And then the last word is a weird, it's just, so this is actually alluded to in several other places.

You know, you should love the Lord your God. And it usually omits the last one. It would usually say with all your heart, with all your soul, right?

Or with all your mind and all your desires, right? Say that would be a better translation. This last one is often omitted.

Honestly, so it's usually translated strength. There's not really good evidence that it should be taken as strength.

In Qumran, so Qumran is Dead Sea Scrolls, other

Hebrew writings, right? This word is used for possessions. So some people have suggested, yeah, that it is, you should love the

Lord your God with all of your possessions. And in the context, it actually makes a whole lot of sense.

So if you go down to verse 10, and when the Lord your God brings you into the land that he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give you with great and good cities that you did not build, and houses full of all good things that you did not fill, and cisterns that, sorry, and cisterns that you did not dig, and vineyards and olive trees that you did not plant.

And when you eat and are full, then take care unless you forget the Lord who brought you up out of the land of Egypt. So the idea is that when you get all of these possessions, right?

Don't forget Yahweh who gave them to you. Love him with those possessions as well.

So really this, the verses after 6 -4 and 6 -5 kind of explicate what it means to love

God with your mind, right? So the next thing that he says is, and these words that I commend you today shall be on your mind.

How are they on your mind? Well, you're going to talk about them all the time. Teach them diligently to your children, right?

Talk about them when you sit down, when you stand up, right? When you're out on the road, when you're not.

Bind them, right? So you see them all the time as frontless between your eyes. So the idea is just that like it's on your mind all the time because you actually physically see it.

And so the loving the Lord your God with all of your me 'od, with all of your power, strength, is

I think better taken as just possessions. Like all the things that God is going to give you, give back to him.

Wow. So you just like completely transformed this verse because originally it was, Hear O Israel, the

Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might. It's like, yeah, God's one and like him a lot, you know?

Do it with your soul, do it with your body, do it with the strength within your body.

That's how I originally kind of saw it was like, you love him a lot, he's kind of like within your soul. Because I feel like with soul, it's like, he's just like a part of me.

And then all your might is like, okay, the power that I exert with the life that I live. But you're saying that, okay, so the first is love,

Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. This is the declaration that there is no other gods, that there is a monotheistic.

Or that there shouldn't be any other gods for Israel. I don't think it's a monotheistic declaration.

It is a loyalty declaration. Israel should not have any other gods. You serve this one.

Exactly, exactly. And then you shall love the Lord your God with all of your, with all the logic that you have, with your mind.

You know, you should know that he's God. And then you should do it with your entire life. Did you say your desires?

Your desires, yep. Okay, so with all of the mind, all of your desires, and then with all of your belongings. I feel like I gotta like repeat that a couple of times for it to like, really like, that's like new information that's gotta settle.

But yeah, it's a new way to see the verse. I mean, but it makes total sense. It's not like a confusing idea at all.

It's just, those are new words to do with all of your mind, all of your desires, and with all of your possessions to love your

God, the God above all other gods. Wow. Okay, that was amazing.

That, oh, this is good. I'm so glad that we're here. Let's go into Isaiah 7, 14, because I'm feeling very

Christmassy, even though this might, this is going to air after Christmas. But you know, get back in that spirit if you're listening, is therefore the

Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name

Emmanuel. I mean, like as a Sunday school Christian, you really are just like, nice, that's a story.

We will leave that. Like there's not much room for confusion is what

I'm saying. And so it's like, okay, so he's going to give a sign. There's going to be a virgin. She'll bear a son. And we already know his name.

Cool. Uh, what else? Yeah, so I actually,

I actually taught on this in Sunday school last week. I, I asked the question, how many people are familiar with all the issues in Isaiah 7, 14?

And, and very few people raised their hands. So I will, I will, I will assume that you don't know, or your audience doesn't know some of the issues going on here.

Um, so basically every one of these words is, is like problematic in different ways.

Um, so to begin with, so this is behold the, uh, what's normally translated virgin, right?

So the Greek translation is parthenos. Okay. And that is, uh, closer to virgin.

Um, in Hebrew, it's, it's more like just young woman. Okay. There's another word for virgin.

Um, betula, uh, that isn't used here. Okay. So the assumption would be, so it's not clear in Hebrew, right?

It's not necessarily not a virgin, um, but it is, uh, not necessarily a virgin.

Okay. So that's, that's one thing. There's been a ton of work done on this particular Hebrew word. Does it mean virgin?

Does it mean young woman? Whatever. Um, it, it, uh, more properly means young woman.

Okay. Um, let me just back up a little bit. So if you just continue reading, right?

So this is part of the thing I told my Sunday school class. Um, if you just continue reading the rest of the paragraph, right?

You can tell immediately that this is not, um, Isaiah is not just talking about Jesus at the very least, right?

Um, so the next verse, he shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good.

Um, for before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two Kings you dread will be deserted.

The Lord will bring upon you and upon your people and upon your father's house, such days as we have not come since such days as have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah, the

King of Assyria. So like this is talking about the King of Assyria, right? It's, it's like, yeah, it's not just Jesus.

Okay. So, so that is again, what I told my Sunday school class was you're not being more faithful to the text.

If you, uh, only read this out of context, right?

The way Matthew reads it, you're being less faithful to the text, right? Um, if you just say like, oh, this is a

Jesus verse and you know, Assyria, whatever. Um, you're being less faithful to the text because there, it is in a context.

And it, it, in, in this context, it is about something that's going to happen with Assyria. Okay. Um, and so that's, that's one thing, this sign that is given, right?

Um, is for a specific purpose in Isaiah's day. That being said, it is a sign, meaning it is something that is unique, right?

A young woman giving birth is not unique, right? Um, it would certainly be unique for a virgin to give birth.

Okay. So that, that does suggest that, um, it could like the, the, the word young woman, even though it doesn't necessarily refer to virgin, the

Greek translators did think it referred to virgin probably because it was a sign. This is something that unique that is happening, right?

In Isaiah's day. Okay. We're going to say that also happens in Jesus day, right?

According to Matthew. But that, but in Isaiah's day, something else is going on. Okay. Um, so the young woman, right?

Um, it says, So the is, um, pregnant or conceive.

Okay. Um, and again, in the Greek translation, um, it clearly points it to future.

If you are familiar with, um, Dan McClellan or Bart Ehrman, if you look up Dan McClellan, Bart Ehrman, Isaiah 7, 14, they will tell you that this verse is clear in Hebrew and, um, the word for pregnant is, it means you're pregnant now.

Okay. Um, I will just say that that is not right. Um, it is, it is not right for multiple reasons.

Um, the, the biggest reason, I mean, I can go into a linguistic explanation, but you,

I really don't have to like judges 13, um, is the story of Samson.

And, uh, in the story of Samson, um, this almost identical phrase is used.

And this identical word is used to refer to, um, Samson being born a year later.

It is not true that, um, Manoa's wife, uh, was pregnant a year before she gave birth to Samson.

Right. Um, and so it doesn't have to be true as, uh, Bart and Dan would say that this, uh, word, uh, needs to be interpreted as like, is pregnant currently.

Right. That's what they would say. They would say that in Hebrew, um, this means the young woman is present or is pregnant currently, not in the future.

Okay. Um, which means obviously that he would give birth very shortly after. Um, as an example of this in English, I can say something like, um,

Cassian is, uh, Cassian is working out next week.

Right. Let's say you put it on the schedule. Right. You say, oh, she's doing that.

Right. Um, totally fine. Right. What I mean by that is it is scheduled.

It is certain. There's something that's already happened that makes me think that the event will certainly happen.

Okay. Um, I can't say something like, uh, Cassian is, uh, beating her friend at volleyball next week.

Right. Because I can't schedule beating my friend. Right. I just, like,

I can say Cassian is playing her friend at volleyball next week. Right. Um, so, so this is the linguistic explanation that's being exactly, exactly.

And so here it is certain. Right. This virgin or this young woman is, uh, is going to conceive.

Right. That is certain. Right. So, so, and, and, and she is going to give birth to a son. Right. We just don't know when it's not, it's not predicting when.

Okay. Um, so that, that is, that is one, uh, thing that, you know, like I said, you will see other scholars say the other big thing.

Um, well, two other things, uh, in, in most translations, it says, it says she will call his name,

Emmanuel. And so this makes sense, right? She is naming the child. The child's name is Emmanuel. Well, if you read

Matthew's version, it doesn't say she will call his name Emmanuel, but they will call his name Emmanuel.

Okay. Um, so why is that important? Well, um, in Matthew one, Jesus is named twice before and after this verse is quoted.

Right. And he's named Jesus, not Emmanuel. So there was actually a kid. If you read the rest of Isaiah.

So if you read through Isaiah eight, right. Emmanuel is referenced. There was a kid named

Emmanuel. It was a sign that had to do with, you know, Assyria, conquering stuff.

That's kid being named. Emmanuel was named by his mother.

The Emmanuel in Jesus is not named by his mother. Right. Um, but they in general call his name

Emmanuel, meaning they, they recognize him as God with us, which is what

Emmanuel means. Okay. Um, but it doesn't mean that that's his name. Okay. His name, he's called by Joseph in Matthew's version,

Jesus, right. That it's a Joseph names him, Jesus. Okay. So at this point, um, the question is like, is

Matthew making stuff up? Right. Um, is Matthew deliberately changing the text?

Well, there is actually, um, textual evidence. So in the Dead Sea Scrolls, um, it just says, uh, uh, and which means, and he will call his name,

Emmanuel. So it, so the, the tricky thing about this, so it's not, they will say that it's not day.

Um, but in, um, biblical Hebrew, um, he can substitute in for a generic person.

So we can say like in, in English, we often use you for this. Um, you know, so if you go up to the

Temple Mount, um, you can see the Kidron Valley. Right. There's no specific you, I'm not talking about you

Cassian. I'm just talking about a generic person. Okay. Um, so in biblical Hebrew, they often will use he for that.

So if he goes up to the Temple Mount, he can see the Kidron Valley. Right. There's no specific he. Okay. Um, so that's exactly the kind of construction we see here in, um, in a version of Isaiah 714 in the

Dead Sea Scrolls, which is our earliest actual version. Um, and so Matthew could be just picking up on that version.

Oh, it's just a generic, like, you know, they call his name. People in general call his name,

Emmanuel. Why? Because he, he's actually God with us. Right.

That's, that's the point. Um, so like I said, basically every single one of these words, um, is debated and there are issues with it.

Um, but I would say that Matthew, um, is not doing anything to the text, uh, that is sort of irresponsible or making things up.

Yeah, it's a, it's a nuanced clarification that you provided, but it definitely provides more light as to like how people spoke.

Right. Yeah. And, and it shows you, there's a lot of, you know, honestly, one of the big things

I would say is, um, you know, we all have our own presuppositions and, uh, uh, like, yeah, ways of viewing the text.

Um, I, I don't want to say that Dan and Bart are just like letting their presuppositions determine how they read things.

Um, really at the end of the day, it's based on data. Right. Um, so it's just based on how are these words used.

Right. And this is, like I said in the beginning, this is why I got into all this to begin with. Right. I just wanted to figure out what all these words meant.

Right. I mean, cause if I can, then I can have a better understanding of what the Bible is actually saying. Right. The, the, the example from Judges 13 is very, very clear.

Um, I, I think once you just look very carefully at the actual text that's, and see what's going on.

Um, there are a lot of different explanations out there, um, than what's been provided by, by them.

Um, like I said, I, I, I don't want to speak for them, like wanting to read things into the text. Um, I don't think they're necessarily doing that, but I don't think they're correct.

Right. Um, in, in how they're reading these texts. Oh, wow.

Okay. Um, we got through a lot there. That was, that was nice. Like five,

I think that was good. Okay. I mean, we have so many left over, so I just have to come back on. Yeah.

Let me know. Uh, okay. I've been like, as you were going through this, there's like a burning question in my mind.

Cause like you got into this to understand the word of God, and then you go through these verses and you see like,

Oh, like what the context, what the translations, they mean something else. So I feel like I, like you and I are reading different Bibles, you know, like you, you read it in context, you read it with the original verb, like with the right verbs of saying, like, this doesn't mean, you know, with all your heart, it means with your entire mind.

It doesn't say with your might, it means with your strength or with your possessions. So do we have different versions of the faith?

Like, has this transformed your faith into like, it's almost like, wait, what version are you reading? It's obviously the more accurate one.

So would you say that my version, not knowing what you know, is

A, watered down or B, like askew, like not even hitting the mark because like, you know, how different is it?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I would say it really is like a verse by verse kind of case.

So, you know, we picked verses that like, you know, were juicy. Um, not every verse is going to be so juicy.

Um, but, but at the same time, um, here's what I would say. You, by and large, can trust your

English translations. So I don't, I don't want to come across as if, um, like they can't be trusted.

At the same time, it is, it is necessary that a translation is an interpretation, just is, um, that's just what a translation is.

You first have to interpret the original text, and then you have to put it into another language. And so you are trusting someone else to do that interpretation for you.

And so the issue is, like, some of these things are debated, right? Like, you know, the, you know, love the

Lord your God with all your, especially like the possessions one, like it's debated, right? About what it can mean, whatever. Um, but you don't get to participate in that debate, right?

If all you see is your strength, right? Like, I don't know. Like, that's, that's, that's how it's been interpreted for me.

And now I don't, I don't know the different options because I can't, um,

I can't see what it originally meant, right? I can't see the original word, okay? Um, so that's,

I would say, I don't want to come across as if you cannot understand the Bible, um, in general with your translations.

However, I do think there are some verses that you will not understand in some English versions, um, given that translation, right?

Um, the question of course is like, you know, what's the translation? Um, what's the verse, right?

Um, different translations are, I mean, translations are different, right? So like one's right and one's wrong, right? There's not, there's not,

I mean, and so sometimes there's like to bring out different nuances, whatever. Um, but sometimes they are contradictory and they both cannot be right.

Um, and so in those kinds of cases, you know, you have to, you have to ask yourself, like, where is this coming from?

And it's coming from the original Greek and Hebrew. Um, and if you, you know, if you want to play the game and figure out like what that, those words originally meant, you had to learn those languages.

I mean, that's super fair. I feel like I wasn't even asking, like, can you trust the Bible? But you kind of answered it. I'm like, okay, like what am

I missing out on? Like, I, I think that came more from like a place of FOMO of like, rather than like distrust.

But it is like, did, did something happen that I missed? Because it was translated in this watered down English way, where like, when you're reading

Greek and Hebrew, there's like the English readers and then everybody else that's like, yeah, they don't even know what they're reading.

You know, like this, it doesn't sound like that's the case, but I was just curious. So that is, wow.

So tell me about Biblingo. Like, how can people like continue this journey? Because obviously we only touched on five verses.

Yeah. So, you know, Biblingo is basically an app designed to teach people Hebrew and Greek. So the, the whole idea is that we're trying to make biblical

Hebrew and Greek more accessible through this app. It's both on the web and iOS,

Android. And we just think these are languages that anyone can learn. So, you know, my, my kids are doing it.

My five -year -old was reading Hebrew at four. And what I would say is like that people,

I mean, granted, he, he's like, he's pretty smarter than everybody.

No, no, he's not. He's not. He's, he's, he's above average. Um, he was reading English, but, uh, at that time as well, which is, which is again, ahead of the curve, but, but, but my point is that he's not above average compared to a 10 -year -old, right?

Um, he was still four, um, and any 10 -year -old could beat him in pretty much any, uh, anything.

Um, and so I, what I would say is that, um, these are languages that, uh, can be learned.

And, you know, we've also had a seven -year -old complete all of our Hebrew lessons, which is a ton of content. And now she's reading the

Bible, the Old Testament in Hebrew. Um, so how would you recommend using Biblingo?

Like, is it line by line? Like you read it in, in the Bible and then you go back to Biblingo and you read it in Greek and you kind of do like a side by side comparison, because that seems very time consuming.

So how would you recommend using it? Yeah, so it's completely different. So Biblingo is a software designed to help you learn the language.

So for example, the first thing you'll see is, um, you know, a picture, right? You'll see a picture of a person and you'll see anthropos, right?

You'll hear the word anthropos and you'll see the picture of the person. And what you're doing is you're associating the, the person with the, the

Greek word anthropos. Um, and so the, basically that, um, we just teach you words, right?

In Greek, um, those words become sentences. So we filmed all of these sentences, um, in Israel and we basically, um, so we're immersing you into the culture as well.

Um, and we're basically like kind of walking you through how a, uh, first century child would have learned these languages, right?

They would have seen a word. Oh, my dad referred to this word as table, trapezda.

Great. That's table, right? Um, and then I see, um, another word, right? Refer to something else as, as another

Greek word. And then those words eventually form sentences. Those sentences form stories.

And then those stories could just turn into the Bible, right? So it's not, we're not like, you know, comparing

English and, you know, the original languages as much as getting you to acquire the language in the way that, um, children, right?

Or anyone else would have learned these languages. Wow. Awesome. Where can people access Biblingo?

You said it's on the app and it's on the web. Yeah. So you can just go to biblingo .com, sign up for a free trial, or just go to the app store, uh, or Google play store and download it and start.

Okay, cool. I'll include a link below just in case you're just like watching this on YouTube or Spotify, you want to sign up right now, but, um, this is like the ideal episode for me.

So I'm so grateful that you're able to come on. Um, let's get you back on to do a little bit more, but thank you so much for all of your, like, just,

I want to say your smartness, like, and your studies and just being able to do this because like, you just saved me years of seminary by doing it on.