June 30, 2026 Show with Claude Ramsey on “A Pastoral Commentary on the Book of Revelation”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 30th day of June 2026.

Before I introduce my guest and our topic of the day, I want to remind our listeners to mark your calendars for this Friday, which is July the 3rd. I may be conducting a first-time-ever interview in the history of interviews.

I have on the program Terry Caturano and her brother Tony Cowley, who are former members of a cult known as Swedenborginism. And this is a cult that started in the 18th century. The followers of a brilliant scientist, mystic, and spirit medium, Immanuel Swedenborg, eventually founded this religion, which still exists.

And I thought it might be relevant to have it addressed since no one else seems to be addressing it in any significant way. It is mentioned in a chapter in Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults, and very few videos that I've been able to find on YouTube address the heresies of this cult.

Only one I could find with a former member who chose to remain anonymous. But after advertising on Facebook that I was looking for members of this cult, former members I should say, who were now Christians, to interview, I finally got a response.

This is after over a year of searching, by the way, and scouring the internet and even consulting AI, finally found these two folks. And one of the reasons I thought it was relevant was that Immanuel Swedenborg, even back in the 18th century, was promoting the concept of intelligent life on other planets, and he claimed to be communicating with them as well as communication with the dead.

So I think this should be a fascinating interview, and as I said, it may be the first interview of its kind ever in the history of interviews. I could be wrong on that. Somebody may want to correct me on that.

Feel free to contact me if you know of anyone else who is a former Swedenborgianist who has been interviewed, but I would like to know about that myself anyway. But please mark your calendars for that interview this Friday, July 3rd.

But today I am so delighted to have an old friend of mine whose friendship and brotherhood in Christ I truly cherish. That is not an exaggeration or hyperbole. His name is Claude Ramsey, one of the most humble and gracious brothers in Christ I've ever met.

And that is also a true statement that is not flattery in any way. He is an author, conference speaker, and host of the Here I Stand theology podcast and pastor of Reformation Baptist Church of Knoxville, Tennessee.

Today we're going to be addressing the theme of his new book, A Pastoral Commentary on the Book of Revelation, Hope for the Church, Comfort for the Pilgrim, Glory for the Lamb. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Honor Trip and Zion Radio, my dear friend Pastor Claude Ramsey.

Thank you so much, sir. I'm glad to be here with you. It's already got me cheered up seeing your smile on your face. And yes, we do see each other, even though our listeners cannot, because we're using Microsoft Teams.

But please, Claude, to start off with, especially for the sake of my listeners who may not know who you are, they may not have heard your previous interviews on this program, or they may not have heard your own podcast, Here I Stand Theology.

Why don't you tell our listeners about Reformation Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee?

Reformation Baptist Church and the Here I Stand Theology Podcast

All right. So we actually planted the church 17 years ago. We just turned 17 in May. The church, of course, is born out of Reformed theology, hence the name Reformation. That comes from the larger Latin phrase, ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda, secundum verbum which just simply means the church reformed and always being reformed according to the word of God.

I also have that Latin phrase tattooed across my chest, but I'm only kidding. Awesome. Only kidding. Go ahead.

I'm sorry. That's okay. So we serve with two other elders at the church, and the Lord has blessed the church throughout the years. We're all growing in the grace and in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ together, so it's been a true blessing there.

I am the husband of one wife, as are the biblical qualifications of an elder. And by the way, really, since we're such good friends, we could say this, really, who would want more than one wife, right?

Who could handle more than one wife at a time, right? So, but we're going to be celebrating our 33rd anniversary in July. We have this one son. He is 32 years old. He is challenged with autism, so he still lives at home with us, but he lives a full life.

He drives, works—as a matter of fact, he works at Home Depot with me, but he just can't necessarily function out on his own. And let's see. Um, that's pretty much it. I'm a simple man.

Well, if anybody wants to know more about Reformata Baptist Church of Knoxville, Tennessee, especially those who may live in that area, and perhaps you don't have a biblically faithful church, home of your own, go to Reformata Baptist Church, and Reformata is spelled R-E-F-O-R-M-A-T-A, baptistchurch .org.

Now tell us about the Here I Stand Theology Podcast.

All right, so over there on the YouTubes, there is the Here I Stand Theology Podcast, and as one of the gentlemen who had actually commented on your post today, he said, I hope the irony is not lost on the host that his theology is against Lutheran theology.

And I assured him, yes, I understand the irony is not lost, but we—go ahead.

I was just going to say, well, you may not be in full agreement with modern Lutheran theology, but I'll bet you that you have more in common with Martin Luther's theology than perhaps even that person who made that comment.

I would agree with you very much, very much. But we started the podcast in 2020, when everybody was starting podcasts, and of course, the tagline of the podcast is simply, we are a podcast dedicated to a biblical and spirited debate of theological issues and matters.

So again, the Here I Stand Theology Podcast over there on the YouTubes, and as well on the YouTubes now, you can—Reformata Baptist Church now has a YouTube page, or YouTube channel maybe is the correct terminology over on YouTube.

So that's all of the sermon series divvied up into playlists from our previous sermon series in Ezra all the way to where we are through Luke, and even to where we are now in the book of Revelation.

Great. Well, I hope that our listeners begin to view those podcasts and also, as I said, visit the Reformata Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee. I have visited that fine congregation, and I can also say without fear of committing the sin of flattery that Pastor Claude is truly a powerful preacher, no polite, quiet little lectures and chats from the pulpit at Reformata Baptist Church.

He is very bold, very powerful, while maintaining his graciousness and humility, and certainly a very biblically knowledgeable exegete. So I know that if you love the Word of God, you will be blessed to hear him preach, and I hope that our listeners who are able to visit that congregation.

Why a Pastoral Commentary on Revelation Was Needed

Well, I am very delighted that a book is now in print by Pastor Claude Ramsey, and I happen to know, and I want to give a caveat here. I don't want people to think that I am insulting authors who have written commentaries on the book of Revelation who are really purely coming from a theological point of view, whether they are trying to promote a premillennial understanding of the book of Revelation, whether they are trying to promote an amillennial view, a postmillennial view, a partial preterist view, a futurist view.

But a lot of these works, which are available, there are many commentaries on Revelation available, and many of them are wonderful and great. But it seems to me that not a large percentage of these books are coming from a pastoral perspective.

And what was the compelling factor in your mind, Pastor Claude, that led you to write this specific book, a pastoral commentary on the book of Revelation, hope for the church, comfort for the pilgrim, glory for the Lamb?

Volume 1, by the way, what was it that led you to say, you know, there's a lot of stuff out there, and a lot of it's great, and a lot of it has benefited my own thinking and life and walk with the Lord, but there's something that I think I can…there's a void that I think that I can fill.

What was that, and what led you to come to believe that?

Well, I would say, number one, I appreciate the comments that you have made there, and number two, the need for…within the title itself, a pastoral commentary, my hope was that that would lend to a mindset for those who would be interested in the book to come to it and understand and to know that this…although there is academia in the book, there is, you know, practical application.

As a matter of fact, at the end of every single chapter, there is what's called the So What Preacher, which is, again, just who I am and what I do each week. It's an application, the application portion of the sermon.

But our hope is that folks who are, because Revelation is likely the most, probably the most feared by Christian people, the most feared book to try to enter into because of the language that's used and how the language is used and what's taking place within the book.

But when we come to it from a pastoral perspective, it's intentionally to be kind of like a one-on-one with individuals, whereas the book itself is truly…again, I'm not putting myself on the level of Spurgeon, but it's the same principle.

It's virtually my sermons in print throughout the book of Revelation. So, these are the ideas and the principles and the approach that I take is literally to make it, help make it understandable to the hearer and to the reader.

Now, do you care to, at the top of the bat, reveal to our listeners what perspective on eschatology you hold?

Absolutely. I would say I am somewhat of a hybrid eschatology. So, partial preterism definitely plays into my view. Idealism plays into my view. So, it'd be a hybrid somewhere between, I would say, a partial preterist and an idealist view.

Okay. And as far as the millennium, would you be awe or post? Amillennial, I will say that. Yes, absolutely. Yes, I've been often accused of being a postmillennialist just because I have so many postmillennial friends and guests on my program, but I am not.

I'm an optimistic amillennialist, and I am also a partial preterist. And I've learned much from postmillennialism, including my partial preterism. Although not all postmillennialists share that partial preterism.

But, well, there are major categories which are revealed right away in the title of the book as to why the book of Revelation should be a book of encouragement to the body of Christ, and they include hope for the church, comfort for the pilgrim, and glory for the Lamb.

If you could begin with why do you believe the book of Revelation offers hope for the church?

Hope for the Church in Revelation

I believe it offers hope for the church because what we find, again, my answers are going to just—I'm not avoiding, but I'm just redirecting back to the text of Scripture. So, number one, it's important for the church because the book itself, as the Lord has it in the text, chapter 1 and verse 3, right?

Blessed is he who reads the words of this prophecy and hears the words of this prophecy and keeps those things which are written in it for the time is near. So, number one, the book of Revelation is a comfort for the church because it is intended to, above all else, to magnify the Lord Jesus Christ and to, as it were, to open up the curtains.

If you were watching a grand production, right, and you're sitting in the audience and you're waiting and the lights go down and, you know, the music diminishes and all of a sudden, the lights come on and this curtain is drawn back and you see the main event, and that's the thing.

The main event of the book of Revelation is not all of the fantastic imagery and metaphors and figurative language that we see. The glory of the book of Revelation is Jesus Christ, because He is revealed in His full glory for who He is and for what He's done.

So, yeah.

Tom Miller. And this book was revealed to John in visions on the Isle of Patmos, correct?

Absolutely. Where he was…. Absolutely, while he was there suffering for the cause of Christ. Amen.

And do you know why. John Calvin—it's interesting that I believe this is the only book, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is the only book of Scripture that he did not write a commentary to explain it.

And do you happen to know why that is?

No, not right off the top of my head. Do you?

No, I was trying to learn some information from you.

I hate that I don't know that about Calvin. I mean, I'm familiar with that knowledge, I have that knowledge, but as to the why, I do not know.

I just heard the simple answer from someone I interviewed once who said he just didn't understand it, so he just left that aside.

And that's the best thing a man of God can do, is if he don't know something, don't try to speak on something. Right. Whereas Luther, on the other hand, he basically, at one point, and I quote, and it's in the book there, in the book here, but he basically said he didn't know if Revelation was even canonical.

The same thing with the epistle of James. Yes. And in fact, as the Roman Catholic apologists love to remind us, Luther said of James that he, I don't know the exact word for word quote, but it was something to the effect of, I wanted to throw Jimmy in the stove.

Because unfortunately, and it's interesting, or baffling, I should say, as to know why, because Martin Luther was a brilliant man, but why he could not reconcile justification by faith alone with James, I'm not sure why that was a problem at all.

I mean, James was just saying that if you have a faith that doesn't produce works, it's dead, it's not real. So I'm not quite sure why that was so problematic for Marty. But also, as the title itself reveals, one of the main causes for rejoicing for the church is that it gives comfort for the pilgrim, the book of Revelation.

Tell us about that and why.

Comfort for the Pilgrim

Okay, so the approach to that whole idea and mindset is this, for us as Christian people, and again, I know there are varying views that people have, and particularly in some circles, they'll even frown upon the language that I'm using, but I'm not going to shy away from it.

The premise and the principle is this, that the letter itself was written to the seven churches of Asia, a group of churches on a circuit, so to speak, that were to be given this book. And there's another thing there, it's not just the letters to the churches.

Everybody wants to kind of put a parenthesis around the letters to the seven churches in Revelation, marking what's written before and what's after as though it's something else, but it's this entire book that was given to these churches.

And these churches were then, as saints of God are now, pilgrims in this world. And one of the things that is continually brought forth in the book is the idea and understanding that this world is not our home, that we are pilgrims and that we are strangers passing through this land because our hope is not in a revitalized earth.

Our hope is in the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done. And so throughout the book of Revelation itself to the idea of pilgrimage, what is communicated consistently and throughout the entirety of this book is for God's people to understand and know that there is a day in which our Lord will return, and when He returns, He will make all things new.

But up until that time, we need to understand that God is sovereign, that God is faithful, that God is loving, that God cares for the needs of His people throughout time and throughout all of eternity.

So therein lies the comfort for the pilgrim because none are excluded. The reality is from day one, in the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth until now, we're living on a planet. We're living in a world that isn't eternal.

But as the book writer of Hebrews has said, we seek a city, or as he quoted, we seek a city which has foundations, whose builder and whose maker is God.

Amen. Now, I do have, as I already mentioned, a lot of post-millennial friends. I've interviewed a lot of post-millennialists, and I happen to know, judging from emails I get from my audience, that there are a lot of post-millennialists out there.

And one thing that raises their ire, if you will, is the more pessimistic understanding of eschatology that both pre-mill and amill Christians typically possess. Even if you're an optimistic amillennialist, the post-mill doesn't think you're optimistic enough.

And they might, from what you just described, conclude from that, well, Pastor Claude, he's just another one of those guys that thinks we're wasting our time polishing the brass on a sinking ship. And just like dispensationalists, he may have a retreatist demeanor, behavior, worldview that does not compel believers to bring about change in society, of course, through the evangelism of the lost with the gospel in hopes that a spiritually transformed society and potentially world will be used of God to bring about these changes in every sphere of life, whether it's the political realm, whether it's the realm of entertainment, whether it's the realm of health and science, every realm.

So, how would you respond to a criticism like that? Would that be a misconception on the part of post-millennialists that you are a retreatist or have a defeatist attitude?

I would say unequivocally, yes. Here's the thing. I would say no retreat, no surrender. We're not called to live in a hole. Living in a hole, as one old dead guy has said, I don't know who it was, but living in a hole does not make you holy.

So, no retreat, no surrender to the idea of even having to use the adjective and I'm an optimistic millennialist for myself. I don't need it because here's the thing. The gospel is inherently positive to the lost, inherently.

There's no getting around—I'm sorry, inherently negative to the lost, right? There's no getting around that because the wages of sin is death. But we have it in the Scripture that the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

So, to the Christian man, to the Christian woman, to the Christian boy, and to the Christian girl, the gospel is inherently positive because it is in Christ, yes, and amen. So, there's no—I don't personally understand how that distinction is consistently brought about and tried to be used, again, other than for individuals to assume that their way is better than another's way.

And here's the thing. Being an amillennialist isn't going to save you. Being a postmillennialist isn't going to save you. And by the way, being either or, amillennial or postmillennial, is not going to make the world a better place.

To the premillennial dispensationalist, again, it's not that view that makes a person right in the sight of God. There's one way to be right in the sight of God, and that is believe the gospel, repent of your sins, and you trust in Christ, right?

It's that new birth that we're aiming at. So, there is nowhere in the Scriptures, if you look—and again, this is my approach on this—there is nowhere, particularly just focusing on the New Testament alone, nowhere in the New Testament that we have an example of someone who Christ has called to salvation, genuinely called to salvation, who has rejected that.

So, my hope and my confidence in Christ and in his gospel is not going to be—I'm not going to minimize it, and I'm not going to shroud it in a tag, amillennial, postmillennial, whatever that may be, because the gospel itself, again, to the redeemed, is inherently positive.

And you can't get any more positive. You can't do it any better than the gospel of Jesus Christ. So, that would be my response to those who would say it's a negative thought. I think it's a realistic view to understand and to know that just as it was in the beginning, so it is now, and so shall it be until the end when Christ comes.

And when Christ comes, it'll be him. And I said this in a message a few weeks ago. We can be sure of this one thing, that when Christ comes, it's going to be him leading the charge, and it's not going to be the church leading the charge.

It's him.

Okay, we have to go to our first commercial break. And if anybody has a question for Pastor Claude Ramsey, specifically on the book of Revelation, our email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. If you live outside of the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Chris. Welcome back. If you just tuned us in, our guest today here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is my dear friend, Pastor Claude Ramsey of Reformata Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee, and he is also the host of the Here I Stand Theology podcast.

Today we are addressing his new book, A Pastoral Commentary on the Book of Revelation, Hope for the Church, Comfort for the Pilgrim, Glory for the Lamb. If you have questions, submit them to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Before we move on to the reasons that the Book of Revelation gives glory for the Lamb, I just wanted to continue a thread that I was on with you before the break about post-millennialism.

One thing that I still have yet to understand is why a certain element of amillennialists and premillennialists absolutely despise post-millennialism. I am not in that camp. In fact, post-millennialism is one of those teachings that I say to myself, I wish that were true.

I wish that was going to be true. I just haven't been convinced from the Scriptures that it will happen. And by the way, I'm not the kind of amillennialist who is absolutely certain that the future on earth will not be as optimistic as the post-millennialists claim.

But I just don't think that they can adequately prove from Scriptures that it certainly will. And I don't think that you are one of those guys that starts foaming at the mouth when you hear about post-millennialists, are you?

No, certainly not. And certainly, it's going to be reciprocal from camp to camp as far as amillennial, post-millennial, premillennial. You're going to have reciprocal mindsets and ideas and thoughts.

But particularly, I think, if we start at the beginning. So, being Reformed men, we hold to the doctrines of grace. We hold to the Calvinistic acronym TULIP, right? Total Depravity. So, here's the thing.

Primarily, we tend, and when I say we, I'm just making a generalized statement here. But as amillennialists and post-millennialists, we tend to find common ground in the fact that some of the ideas and thoughts of the premillennial dispensationalists.

But when we bring it back to doctrine, when we bring it back to actual theology, a good question for us as amillennials and post-millennials to ask ourselves is this, is how does the dispensationalist view or why does their mindset and their ideology seem to be so negative as it's always identified?

And I would say that if we're honest with ourselves and if we're objective with ourselves as we're looking back over these things and these views, I would say if we were to ask, well, I know if you ask a dispensational premillennialist who's hardcore dispy, right?

That's the short term, I guess. Hardcore. And if we were to ask them, why do you seem to have such a negative outlook on the world? And they'll say, because the world's going to hell in a handbasket. That's an honest answer, right?

But then we have to ask another question. Well, why? Well, it's the people. And what's wrong with the people? Well, they're sinners. So there we've found the root of the issue, right? The postmillennialist says the same exact thing in a different way.

The amillennialist says the same exact thing in a different way. But the logical conclusion always goes back to the wickedness of the sinful heart, of the wicked hearts of men. So in a very real sense, yes, I would say the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

However, we have a Savior who has electing grace and that pulls men and women and boys and girls from the fire, as the book of Jude says, right? And that saves men and women, boys and girls out of the mess and the wickedness.

But I think, again, it's being objective. If we are simply objective with our view and we don't see just what we want to see and we don't hear what we want to hear, but we look at the whole of the text of Scripture, we can understand that the disputes are coming to a conclusion and they're just traveling a different route to get there.

But the same thing is being said as what the postmillennialists and the omnillennialists are saying about the condition of humanity. And again, objectively, when it comes down to it, when the rubber meets the road, when you run your match across that flint on a matchbox, it's always going to come down to this.

What is it that's going to save men, women, boys, and girls? It's going to be the gospel of Jesus Christ. Amen, hallelujah.

Tom, let's move on to that final primary aspect that benefits the body of Christ with the book of.

Revelation—glory for the Lamb. All right. So, this is the ultimate end of all men. So, let's go to Westminster, right? So, what is the chief end of man? To glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. And the point of the title being—with that being in the title—glory for the Lamb, again, because that is the consummation of all things.

That is the aim and the goal of the book of Revelation, so that God's people, number one, will know that there is a Lamb who sits on the throne, and there's a God who sits on high, and He looks down low at men, and that despite our sinfulness, despite our nature, despite our wickedness, He chooses to save.

He has chosen to show His grace in that sending His Son to die on the cross for our sins, that we might have everlasting life, but that everlasting life is through Him. That's why everything, everything we do and everything we say—as a matter of fact, the apostle Paul said it to one of the churches in his epistles—whatever you do, in word or deed, do all for the glory of the Lord.

So, the book itself, it builds, it opens on Jesus Christ, and it closes on Jesus Christ, and every page is stained with the blood of Jesus Christ as the source of consolation and as the source of hope for those who live, number one, as Christians, number two, those Christians who live as pilgrims in this world, so that when it's all said and done and it comes down to it, the glory of the Lamb is the cheap end of all things and of all men.

Tom, Amen. And we have a listener who is a fellow Tennessean in Cleveland, Tennessee, the birthplace of the Church of God Cleveland, Tennessee, which happens to, believe it or not, this cessationist Reform Baptist began a part of my journey into Christianity in a Church of God Cleveland, Tennessee in Lindenhurst, Long Island.

And so, it's interesting that we have a listener in Cleveland, Tennessee, who has a statement slash question. I'm not saying that the listener is from that denomination, by the way, I don't know. He may be upset that I compared the two.

He says, in Romans 12 verse 19, we read, Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord. I have heard the book of Revelation summarized as the avenging of the apostles and prophets.