Tears of Scientology — Hank Hanegraaff

Via satellite from Southern California, the Christian Research Institute presents the Bible Answer Man, the nationwide radio broadcast that examines today's religious movements and gives reasons for faith.

For decades, this program has been giving believers and non-believers alike solid defenses and biblically-based answers about the Christian faith. We've also been using it as a beacon of warning about the counterfeit Christs, false prophets and teachers, and destructive heresies that the Bible mentions.

And so it is with all of the outreaches of the Christian Research Institute. Whether by radio broadcast, cassette tape or printed material, we offer information on cults, world religions, heretical teachings and other spiritual counterfeits, so that we in the body of Christ may be more aware of them and be more effective in reaching their members with the true gospel.

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Scientology as a Dangerous Religious Counterfeit

Just two weeks ago, the cover of Time magazine read Scientology, cult of greed. Now, when a secular periodical like Time magazine exposes a cult like Scientology, you can be rest assured that you're dealing with a monster.

And we know that the issue has sparked some interest. So to answer your questions today and give us a Christian perspective on this dangerous religion are two of its former members who may be familiar to some of you and who will be discussing Scientology with Hank Hanegraaff, president of CRI.

Thank you, Mike. You know, whenever I think of the cult of Scientology, I think of what Paul says in the book of Acts. He's bidding farewell to the Ephesian elders and he says, and now compelled by the spirit, I'm going to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there.

I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me. Then he says, however, I consider my life worth nothing to me. If only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me, the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.

The very first thing that he's pointing out is that there are dangers involved in being an ambassador for the Lord Jesus Christ. And when you tackle Scientology, you have, as Mike has correctly pointed out, tackled a monster.

Paul goes on to say, keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. We shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.

Even from your own number, men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard, he says. Remember that for three years, I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

You know, when I memorized that not long ago, I thought of Scientology and I thought of that last word, tears, because that's a perfect acrostic for the questions I want to ask you with regards to Scientology.

T-E-A-R-S. We're going to talk about thetans. We're going to talk about engrams or the e-meter. We're going to talk about auditing, reincarnation and Scientology. But before that, I want to welcome Keith and Sean Scott back to the broadcast studios of the Christian Research Institute.

Thank you, Hank. It's good to be here. We're always excited to come and share with you.

I'm excited to have you here. I listened to the broadcast we did so many months ago, I guess about a year ago, and it was exciting to to be with you then. And I know that as a result of that Bible Answer Man broadcast, people's lives were impacted.

As a matter of fact, I think you were sharing with me a compelling testimony of someone who was brought out of darkness into the marvelous light of God's grace.

Hank, thanks to CRI being here as a beacon of light. People call. They get information about Scientology. They get our phone number and we send them some information and had a beautiful story recently where a mother called us about her son who had just gotten into Scientology.

She was very concerned. He had given his life to the Lord many years before, but it backslidden. And through sending our information pack out through her prayers, not only did he give up his quest for Scientology after he got accurate knowledge about what was going to happen to him in the cult, but we're happy to report that after hearing a good testimony of a good Christian friend, he accepted Christ just a few days ago.

That is so exciting. You know, I tell you, I delight in having you here for so many reasons, not not the least of which is the fact that you make me feel so comfortable. Well, Sean was nursing your newest edition in studio just before the broadcast.

We had to shuffle her out real quick so she wouldn't cry over the air. My wife does that all the time. I got five kids, so I'm used to that kind of an environment. So I feel comfortable with you here.

And I really do appreciate the work that you're doing as well. It is a very worthwhile work, but there are some incredible dangers associated with doing this kind of work. In fact, when you expose Scientology, you can expect some threatening phone calls.

We've already gotten them, Hank, and I know you've gotten some yourself for the work.

You've done. You just had one the other day.

Just the other day. I don't need to go over it in detail, but it was it was frightening. And but we just pray that Christ would continue to protect us. And if he's led us down this path to expose this cult that he'll he'll provide for us.

In all ways. You know, at a recent NRB, National Religious Broadcasters, in the exhibit hall, Scientologists had booths set up and they were passing their wares on to unsuspecting pastors. And I watched for a little while and the pastors were just so excited about what was being shared.

They had no idea that this was Scientology. And I remembered the words of Dr. Walter Martin, who said, if if you can't tell the difference between the fleece of sheep and the fur of wolves, you're going to lose your spiritual arms.

And this is exactly what was happening right at the National Religious Broadcasters.

Hank, what was the what were they there under the guise of what was their name?

They were there under the guise of two front groups. And that is one of the dangers of Scientology. How do you know whether you're dealing with something that's worthwhile or something that is a front group to indoctrinate you in Scientology?

For example, applied scholastics sound dangerous to me or some of the other groups like Narconon. That's a great example. You're going in to deal with the drug problem and you end up in perhaps a worse.

Problem. A real good one that I've noticed is we have in the in the Christian realm of Christian businessmen of America, and they have a group called Concerned Businessmen of America. I mean, it's so close and it sounds so righteous.

One could easily be confused and think they're coming to a godly meeting when they're in fact not. And Hank, another one that I think it was in a newspaper recently is one of the fastest growing companies in the United States is Sterling Management Company.

And they go into professionals, doctors, dentist offices and try to show them new management techniques to reduce stress and save time. And everybody's interested in that. But you're buying a Scientology program.

You know, interestingly enough, when you mentioned the word stress, I just got a an envelope that came through through the mail and in great big letters, red letters. In fact, it said the word stress.

And I thought, well, this is perfect for me because I'm under stress constantly. And I opened it up and there was Scientology propaganda.

They're involved in a major mailing campaign and they really want to become a mainstream Dale Carnegie type of a program where people go and assist something new to help themselves. Millions of dollars is also invested in researching what are America's buttons right now and how do you approach the average individual on whatever the button is of the times and they push it, expecting that you'll reach out for their information.

The button now is stress.

And when you're talking about millions of dollars, they have millions of dollars to spend. I mean, we're talking about a cult that is very well founded. And when we talk about it as a cult, I think we can probably talk about it in that regard from both a theological and a sociological standpoint.

In a social standpoint, I think it's fair to say that it fits the definition of a group of people that are being controlled in virtually every dimension of their lives by the group or by the cult in a theological sense.

In some ways, they pretend that they are Christian, yet they deny all of the essentials of the historic Christian faith. And interestingly enough, the book dedicated to L. Ron Hubbard called Scientology, put out by the Scientologists, has a caption and it says, A world religion emerges in the space age.

And it goes on to dedicate itself to L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, whose unique genius, it says, has united the realms of spirit and natural science to enhance immeasurably the life and the consciousness of our time, as well as the ages and civilizations yet unborn.

So Scientology really is appealing to, quote, unquote, the scientific age, isn't it?

I think it really reaches to those people because those people also are usually high income earners, engineers, people who like to have things analyzed and explainable. And there is a formula and a step by step procedure for everything in life.

If you're in Scientology, if you don't have enough friends, they have a formula to follow. If you want to achieve ultimate spiritual freedom, they have another formula.

Indeed. Well, I want to go back to my acrostic tears because Scientology has definitely left tears in many people's eyes who have participated, not the least of which are your own eyes. You have suffered as a result of being involved with Scientology for many years.

And now God has brought you out of Scientology and is using you to expose the error. But tears, I think that is an appropriate acrostic. And I want to go through each one of the letters that make up the word tears, T-E-A-R-S.

Thetans, Engrams, and Scientology's Spiritual Cosmology

First of all, T, thetans, T-H-E-T-A-N-S. What is that and what's the significance from the standpoint of Scientology?

Well, thetans are what we would call the spirit. They're the part of man, our actual essence. And Scientology believes that when you've achieved spiritual levels above clear that you can just leave your body and you as a thetan can just travel around similar to astral projection.

You're not confined within your body any longer and you can just go and move around at will. They believe also that through their processes, you can get to the place where you can control your environment and control your universe.

And it's very much like Godness being in Godhood once you've achieved their various.

Levels. Who would believe this stuff? For example, at the cost of $17 ,000, according to Time magazine and a couple of months invested in terms of your time, you can find out about Scientology's sacred scriptures, the story about the galactic ruler Zeno, volcanic explosions on Earth and the implantations of the spirits or body thetans.

This level also helps free you from the effects of drugs taken in past lives. Now, who's going to believe this kind of stuff? And yet this is a sort of science fiction that you're taught in Scientology.

We've discovered that they partake in what is known by countercult psychiatry and whatnot in progressive truths, that when you first get in, you are given the very palatable thoughts and the very logical, solid sounding ideas.

And it isn't until you become more and more indoctrinated that you find out some of the bizarre things. And by the time you find out about the body clusters of thetans and stuff, you're so indoctrinated, you don't know whether you're coming or going.

Scientology has really become mainstream in that they're sponsors of the Goodwill Games, Ted Turner's Goodwill Games with Sony and Pepsi and so forth. So they showcase themselves along with household names.

You have people like Tom Cruise, Kirstie Alley, John Travolta, Sonny Bono, Chick Corea and many others. Priscilla Presley, yeah, would be another great example. They are touted as being Scientologists.

Do they really know what's going on or are their names just being used?

Well, there's a very different treatment given to those who have the kind of financial comfort that these people do. They don't see the more difficult side that a typical staff member would experience.

And Scientology does not want to lose the income that these people have. So there is somewhat of a different approach given to these kind of guys.

Last time you were on the broadcast, you talked about Keith, I believe, being involved in slave labor, actually, for Scientology. John Travolta doesn't have to go through that, right?

No, I don't think they're going to make John Travolta get into a blue boiler suit and not see his wife or family for two years.

But they do do that to the average run of the mill. Scientologist.

Well, if you join staff and you've committed to work there for two and a half years or.

Five years. And by the way, you do that because normally you can't even pay for what you hopefully will gain from Scientology. So you really enlist, so to speak, and you give your time in exchange for the sessions.

Right. For the sessions. But, Hank, what really happens is you work. They require so much work from you while you're there. You don't have any time to get the sessions that you're supposedly working to get for free.

But back to the slave labor or the RPF, as it's known. A person I had just talked to on the phone, I told him about my testimony when he went down to the Scientology center. He said, do you have an RPF?

He said that to one of the Scientologists there. And they said, oh, yes. And we have an RPF, RPF. So it is ridiculous what people will will think, too. But Scientology does do that and they're doing it right now.

Well, you know, it's really interesting when we talk about thetans. We think that the average person who is rational and sentient would not fall for this sort of thing. Yet John Travolta is quoted as saying.

Yet Scientology just contains the secrets of the universe that may be hard for people to handle sometimes really hearing that. But it's true. Or Kirstie Alley says it's not hocus pocus. If you can erase your engrams, then you can get better.

Now, E stands for engrams and my little acrostic tears. So let's talk about engrams.

What are engrams? Well, there's volumes written on engrams and what they are. But from my experience, having been audited and having audited other people, an engram is nothing more than a moment of pain and unconsciousness that you felt at some time prior to where you are now.

And usually these engrams are in prior lives. And that is what Scientology wants you to remember. You cannot get better in Scientology, the bulletin say, if you do not remember past life incidents.

Interestingly enough, while you were a child, you first heard about these e-meters and that sounds fairly scientific. What is it really?

Well, as a child, I heard about it because my father was a Scientologist and he would audit us children, ask us to remember past life things. And we thought my dad was kind of wacky. We loved him, but it was a strange belief he had.

But the e-meter is very similar to a lie detector. It picks up the sweat on your skin. And if a person is telling the truth or not telling the truth, that this varies in the resistance. There's an electrical current going through your body, a small one to measure this.

And that is how they feel. Like they can tell if you're being honest with them, you're actually remembering a real incident that happened 10 million years ago.

Interesting. You talk about your experience and you mentioned the word auditing, which is the A in tears.

What's auditing all about? Well, that's like the counselor patient relationship that psychologists might have or counselors. The person who is trained to manage the e-meter and to ask the provided questions to the counselee is said to be auditing that counselee.

They lead them through very fixed questions and processes. Each process has a projected outcome. And they lead this counselee through that list of questions until they get what they perceive to be the fixed outcome.

But more on the auditing, Hank, is that the longer I've been out, the more I remember that this auditing was a form of brainwashing. A real quick example of an auditing session would be an auditor standing there talking to his pre-clear person who's not attained clear yet.

And he'd say, look at that wall. And that you'd say, OK, I'm looking at it. You'd say, walk over to that wall and you would walk over to it. Then he'd say, touch that wall. You touch it and then you turn around and you'd repeat the same thing over and over for hours.

Now, now that I look back, that is a form of breaking you down, brainwashing you into going along with what and you keep doing that until you remember or think of.

Clear, Past Lives, and Reincarnation in Scientology

Something good. By the way, when you say clear, we're talking about literally erasing the blackboard, not only in terms of what's happened previously in this life, but in past lives as well, which brings me to the R in tears reincarnation.

Tell me what reincarnation is all about. According to the Scientologists, do they even like to use that word?

No, they really don't. They like to call it past lives. And they there's a lot of Shirley MacLaine things around about people who have remembered past lives, things that are on the television. So they sort of play along with that.

So, yes, there are past lives and they believe that we haven't just lived once or twice before, but we've had millions of lifetimes going back trillions of years. And this is why man is in such a terrible state right now, because all these years have piled up all these bad things and we need to get rid of all those engrams.

Well, I'll tell you, we want to end not with tear, but tear. So we've got to come up with an S and that's Scientology. When we mention the word Scientology, what does that really mean? How did L. Ron Hubbard come up with the word Scientology?

And why is that so descriptive in the age of scientific enlightenment of of the reason people get involved in the first place?

Well, Scientology, knowing how to know the scientific aspect to life, that's what attracted me, quite honestly, just, you know, life is hard to handle sometimes and it would be nice to think that there was a science to it.

And there's sort of the illusion that what you've learned in Christianity is OK, but it's sort of for when you were in diapers in kindergarten. But now that you're enlightened, you can move up and progress into the scientific.

Enlightenment of Scientology or even you've tried that Christian stuff before that help you out. Well, not really. Well, try this. This will really give you something to hang your hat on. It's also, Ted, is not being the only way, but it is a workable way.

Once you get involved, though, you can't pursue any other workable ways. It has to be only this way. And it appeals to people who want very clear, concise answers for everything in life. And with a name like Scientology, I mean, it's a real draw to that type of thinker.

You know, I thought of this acrostic tears on my way into work this morning, and I just sprung this on you. And I know that our listening audience now has a handle by which they can remember some of the tenets of Scientology.

So maybe vicariously for the audience, if I go through each one of those letters, I want to see if you can remember what's the T stand for.

Thetans. Oh, very good. And the E? E-meter and Ingrams. Oh, very good. You got both of them. The A stands for? The auditing, which is nothing more than a glorified counseling session. And the R? Reincarnation.

And S? Scientology. Well, you did good. Now you got a couple of them Keith didn't get. He was looking there sort of with a blank stare. I hope all of you out there have got this as well. I had an engram.

I couldn't think. OK, great. I want to read a quick letter. I pulled your address from the Christian Herald magazine. I'm a lifelong Catholic and former Scientology looking to make a break from my past and to find some answers to questions that I have of my faith and future life.

I'd appreciate any information you may have to organizations and or support groups that are available for someone like myself. Thank you. So here's a person who was involved in Scientology, who was looking for a support group, who was helped as a result of information that we supplied.

And as a result of that has come out of Scientology. Praise the Lord. That's really the bottom line, isn't it? That's why we do what we're doing. It's not necessarily to cast aspersions on other people.

It's not simply to be against something, but it's bringing people out of darkness into the marvelous light gospel of Jesus Christ. I so appreciate the work that you both are doing. I know that you have put your lives on the line, the lives of your family on the line and taking the sorts of stands that you are taking.

And in the second half of the broadcast, I want our audience across the United States and Canada to have an opportunity to ask you questions personally, even if you're a Scientologist and you don't agree with what we're saying.

We would invite you to call in and we're looking forward to talking to you, Mike. Every time we've had Keith and Sean Scott in studio, it's been an exciting experience.

That's right. And as you mentioned, we'll be taking open calls during the second half of the broadcast. Our toll free numbers are 1 -800 -821 -4490. Again, in the United States, that's 1 -800 -821 -4490.

In Canada, dial toll free 1 -800 -541 -9437. Also, if you'd like to write us, remember our address, CRI Post Office Box 500, San Juan Capistrano, California, 92693. We're coming up to a station break.

For those of you staying with us, we'll be right back with the second half of the Bible Answer Man program. Welcome back to the second half of today's Bible Answer Man program, presented by the Christian Research Institute, the world's oldest and largest evangelical countercult ministry.

Defending the Faith Against Spiritual Counterfeits

It is our prayer that God will continue to use this broadcast as a means of speaking the truth and love about the errors of spiritual counterfeits and non-Christian cults. Along with the many other outreaches of CRI, like our newsletter, the Christian Research Journal and International Division, we continue to assist Christians in upholding the mandate of First Peter 315, which is to sanctify Christ as Lord in our hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks us, to give an account for the hope that is in us, yet with gentleness and reverence.

As Hank, our president, puts it, we as believers not only need to know what we believe, but why we believe it. So if you're in dialogue with a one is Pentecostal, a Mooney or a Mormon and you need information on what they believe, write us and request it.

If you don't yet have a copy of our resource catalog, ask for that as well. We'll be glad to send it to you free of charge. Our address is the Christian Research Institute, Box 500, San Juan Capistrano, California, 92693.

Let me give that to you one more time. C .R .I. Box 500, San Juan Capistrano, California. And our zip code is 92693. For those of you who have just joined us, we are joined in studio by Keith and Sean Scott.

They are being interviewed by Hank today. And in a few moments, we'll be taking your phone calls, answering questions on the subject of Scientology, Hank.

Mike, in part, Time magazine provided an answer to the question why so many even well-educated professionals can be deceived by such an outrageous system of beliefs as Scientology. But I get a letter the other day, which I think tells the story with far more eloquence.

It says, maybe I should have known all along that the story about Jesus was true, but somehow I just didn't get it. The whole thing seemed mythological to me, a tale spun by humans to get other humans to live a more moral life, helpful in an innocuous sort of way, but nothing to get excited about.

Then in my late 30s, I bottomed out, disappointed and wounded. I determined to find the answer to life or else to kill myself. I began a spiritual search that took me from Scientology to silver mind control.

Nothing I tried satisfied in silver. I was introduced to spirit guides. And in Scientology, I was introduced to tap the power within myself. However, regardless of what I tried, the emptiness never went away until one day I was stopped on the street by a witness for Christ.

I was invited to a Bible study and I discovered the evidence for the historicity of the Bible. I remember that night thinking, dear God, it's true. The Sunday school story is really true. I saw the truth intellectually before I ever saw it emotionally.

The evidence is there for anyone who will hear. And I suppose if anything sums up why we're doing the program or broadcast today, it would be letters like these. And for that reason, at the top of the second half hour of the broadcast, I want to ask you for some witnessing tips.

How do you communicate with the Scientologist? What is the best way to reach them? Is it to dump a lot of information on them, or are there some things that you have to do prior to presenting the gospel, such as building a relationship, for example?

Friendship Evangelism and Reaching Scientologists

That's a good one, Hank. I'll give you a couple. And Sean, I'm sure, has a few to add. But the first thing, if you have a friend, associate or someone you know who's starting to get into it, don't wait.

That is the prime time to talk to them about Scientology, because it's, in my belief, a long series of brainwashing, changing your thought from one to another. So the longer they're in, it becomes very, very difficult to get out, even though it's an answer to prayer.

I was in five years and totally brainwashed. It's a miracle to the Lord that I'm here right now of his faithfulness. Frank mentioned friendship evangelism. If Christ puts on your heart to witness to someone, become his friend.

Don't just try to say a few things and run away. Care about this person, love him, what we're instructed to do in the scriptures, and become a person that he can confide in. Find out how long he's been in Scientology, if he's been in for a year, two years, three years, and try to draw him into a conversation about what he believes.

And then you should be able and prepared, like the scripture says, as the share of the reasons for the hope that lies within you. And in this type of communication, open, friendly, without becoming antagonistic to one another, when they start examining their thoughts and beliefs, we think that that's the road where some truth might get in.

I just would add that it's real important not to be combative or judgmental to what their belief system is. If you can do, as Keith said, ask questions and say, you know, I read this and this about your beliefs, that's interesting.

My beliefs are this way, and how do you relate the two? And seem as though you're interested just from a curious viewpoint rather than wanting to convert the other person. Also, one of the best things and the most foremost thing is to be in prayer about that person's soul.

You can't endeavor in one of these things without having a spiritual covering of prayer. Amen.

Well, I know I have so many questions I wish I could ask you right now, but time is slipping away on us. I'm going to go to the phone lines and talk to Vivian in Glendale, California. She's listening on KKLA.

Vivian, you're on the air.

Yes. Hi. Hi, Vivian. This is Keith. I came across your program quite accidentally here, and I heard you had a former Scientologist on. And I am a Scientologist, and I have been one for 14 years. And I'm a mature lady.

I have grown children. In fact, it was my daughter that introduced me to Scientology. And as a young mother, I knew that and I was always a very religious person and still am. And I always knew there was more to life than I was seeing.

And I was becoming kind of down because life wasn't exactly, you know, as you get older, you see the hopes and the dreams that you have aren't really culminating. So it kind of makes you go downhill. And so when my daughter introduced me to Scientology, I saw that there are a lot of answers here that I was looking for.

And through Scientology, I have been able to refurbish my education by taking a study course. I always was a decent student in school, but I found out why I wasn't a better student. And I went back and refurbished that.

Now I can study and read and really get something out of the books I read.

OK, Vivian, this excuse me one second, Vivian, here's a good example of someone who's gotten into Scientology. Her name is Vivian. She's on the air and she's saying that Scientology has really filled the vacuum or the void in her life, which we say only Jesus Christ can fill.

How would you respond to Vivian?

Well, Vivian, I was curious. You said that you were religious or felt that you were and actually still consider you're religious. Does that mean that you believe in Christ?

Well, I believe that Christ was a very special person. Yes, I certainly do. And I believe he lived and did all the things that we say he did. And, you know, in Scientology, it's up to us to determine what is true for us.

And we certainly believe in a supreme being. So, you know, I'm just a little sorry, Hank, that you don't have someone on the program at the same time you have these other people, because it's kind of like a kangaroo court.

Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, Vivian, you're on the air and we're not about to cut you off, but hang on for just a second. You're doing a wonderful job representing Scientology. You talk about Jesus Christ and how Scientology views Jesus Christ.

Keith and Sean, you don't happen to agree with this opinion.

Well, I'm not an official authority. Oh, I understand that, Vivian.

Right. I understand that. No problem. Vivian, we're not authorities either. We're just sharing our experiences, what we learned over our five years, too. But what do you think about Christ? Is he the savior of man or is he just a great a great person, philosopher?

Frankly, I've I've always thought he was a very great person. Do you believe that he was God? Well, I probably yeah. And, you know, the thing is, there is a supreme being out there and and there's a lot of greatness in all of us.

And he certainly was an outstanding one.

But do you believe that he was God, the supreme being?

I really would really not want to say, because that's a very personal thing to me.

Well, you know, ultimately, that's what Jesus Christ says. The acid test is, who do you say that I am? That's that's your view. No, no, that's not my view. That's what Jesus Christ said. As a matter of fact, Jesus Christ over and over again said that I am the father and one.

If you've seen me, you've seen the father. No one comes to the father but by me. He either had to be crazy on the level of someone who calls himself a poached egg or he had to be, in fact, God. But you can't say he's a good teacher when he says that sort of thing.

Sir, if that's true to you, then it is true.

Vivian, I was curious because I learned some things about how Scientology felt about Christ after I got out, which which were offending to offending to me. But I wonder if you got to a level and I don't know what level you're at now, but you found out that Christ, instead of being a great person, was the cause of all the ills that are afflicting mankind right now.

Would that offend you?

You know, I really don't. I don't recall reading anything about Christ at all.

Have you what level are you at right now, Vivian? I'm a clear on an auditing level. I'm a clear. Are you an auditor also? OK, I would suggest and encourage you to ask questions because right now this is Keith, I'm sorry.

Ask your friends higher up. What does Ron Hubbard say about Jesus?

Does he know the one thing? I don't have to do that because I have seen enough in Scientology where I've seen it work. I have a lot of young friends from the 60s and the 70s that are off of drugs because of that.

And so really it's handling a lot in life. There's a lot more to life. And right now what I'm doing is I'm able to handle myself better on this planet right now. I'm a very ethical person and Scientologists have to be ethical for it to work, to really work.

So that's what I'm addressing right now. And by you're telling people not to get into Scientology, you're doing this civilization a great deal of harm because it does make better ethical people.