Gv Ad 2000 to Leaders at West Watch 11.5.94 — George Verwer

One of my old tape recorders that I left here at West Watch, going to serve a good purpose here. Lord, we praise you for your mercy, your grace. You know our hearts. We're here to learn, learn. We're here to grow.

We're here to do some real thinking, yet we're all different. Even our minds sometimes process information differently. We need your help just to be able to shift gears a little bit from the theme of the day to what I'm sharing this evening.

Lord, I thank you for each brother and sister in this room. Thank you for the powerful ministries they've already had. And Lord, if we can improve on those ministries even a tiny bit, we would be encouraged during these days here.

We do find our hearts crushed by Rwanda at this time. It's no pretend. We can't pretend that we can relate to that. We want to. We have to cast this enormous, enormous pain from this upon you. Thank you that something seems to be happening a little bit in some positive realm.

We pray for all these UN people who are going there. So we look to you now, and somehow we just want to bloom where we are. We want to accomplish tonight what needs to be accomplished for tonight and leave for tomorrow, that which we cannot possibly do tonight.

Thank you, God, for this place. Thank you that we are being now given two years more, starting next May, with really no strings attached. How we can continue to use this place for your glory. We're reminded, O God, of the network of relationships you've given us all over the world.

Thousands and now tens of thousands of people who are interlinked with us. We long to bless them. We long to serve them. We also long to see the breakthroughs among the unreached people, whether it's in the 1040 window or an extension of that window.

Help us now as we cast upon you, in Jesus' name. Amen. Okay. Next thing, if we can get this out. This is closely lined with the main thrust of my talk tonight. That looks like something I gave at an OM leadership conference.

Some of those tapes, I'm afraid, are quite a while ago and I can't remember. Let me just say this. You may not be a tapeworm yourself or someone who listens to tapes, but some people on your field might be very grateful for the opportunity to hear some of the tapes.

They don't all get to conferences like this with the selection of speakers that you are able to listen to here, but some of them may find that helpful to listen to some of those tapes. None of them are copyrighted.

The Goal of Preaching the Gospel to Everyone

Can we preach the gospel to everyone? Turn to the inside, please. Can we preach the gospel to everyone by the year A .D. 2000? That is the theme for tonight. We're going to get back to that. Let me just explain that this particular article is only a tiny part of what I want to try to communicate to you tonight.

This is largely about my burden and vision, which many other people have, to see a great surge of missions mobilization material going out to the church in many languages, because many, many languages are left out of missions literature.

Operation World is only scheduled to go into a few languages. We are working on that as part of our literature special projects. We desire to see Operation World in 25 major languages. If we can do that, it will be accessible to 80 to 90 of all the Christians on the planet.

I can hear somebody immediately complaining about the other 10 or 20%, but just thinking of 25 languages for Operation World is basically impossible. I haven't met anybody that's thinking about it except me, unless they picked it up and hadn't told me about it.

I don't think Patrick Johnson is quite geared up to 25 languages, but he wouldn't be opposed to it. With a book like Operation World, you have to move fairly quickly. I don't believe Operation World is the key piece of missions mobilization literature.

I believe it varies from country to country, from church to church. I include what denominations are putting out, missions are putting out. Probably 10 million pieces will go out this year, as it is. It's a guess, pure guess.

But I would say, if we're going to do the job that I believe God wants us to aim at, we need to see that multiplied tenfold. It needs to include cassettes, videos. We have the Jesus video for the unsaved, but we have no equivalent video for mobilizing Christians.

Generally, in the course of history, you've got to mobilize the Christians in order to reach the unsaved. I certainly don't want to take money, because this project takes money, from distribution of Jesus films and New Testaments in the middle of the Muslim world, to go to missions mobilization literature in Chicago.

That's not the vision. But I believe we've got to do both. Different people have different callings. And that if this takes off, we will have more money to buy New Testaments than we will know what to do with.

But if it doesn't take off, then I don't think we're going to reach those goals. Now, there is a set of questions and answers. The moment you read this, you've got questions if you've got a brain. And we'll be having questions at the end of this session.

But I have a set of questions and answers based on that. And if that's not around, I will try to send some down. Because we're limited in what we can do this evening. This also has gone out to many, many thousands of people.

It's bringing some interesting response. Okay, next item. Pass this out. We're always introducing you to materials. The item I want to introduce to you is not actually the Christian Herald. You don't have enough there?

One for a family. I didn't bring enough of these. I'll give this one to... It's not that strategic anyway. Not everybody needs this. The main reason I'm giving you this, and I'll give it to you, I just wanted to point out Tony Sargent's newest book.

Tony is so linked with us in this work. His new book has been given a full page spread. Here's a picture of Tony. We're on page 8. Position of the Soul. Sacred Anointing. This is Tony's thesis to get his doctor's degree.

He's now Dr. Tony Sargent. This is about the preaching of Dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones. That's really just a book review. There's probably no church in the world linked with this as much as Worthing Tabernacle.

Tony now is making 5 or 6 major OM trips a year. In some ways, he's sort of unofficially involved with ICT. He's also on the oversight group overseeing the work in India where he's just been again. I hope you'll have contact with him.

Literature Distribution and the Power of Information

We're told we live in the information society. I know that I'm an informationaholic and I also distribute information at an incredible rate. One of the reasons I do that is the amazing feedback. The stories of people being linked, people being converted just because they got this little paper or this address or this particular book.

It's quite amazing. Another distribution item. That's of course something you've all learned as leaders. How to get more on the airplane. Shoulder bags, knapsacks, waist bags. Just a plea for your prayers for the International Coordinating Team, a team that is growing.

The strategic plan will force quite a lot of growth on our team. We need your prayers. We want to serve the body. This is our prayer letter with so many beautiful pictorial letters going out. At least for the present, I'm just every other month doing this sort of old-fashioned letter.

It does bring results. A man who read about the matching fund and I think Peter Maiden already told you wrote me a check out for $10 ,000 to match this $20 ,000 from Singapore. The man from Singapore just called me the other morning and said, do you have the $20 ,000?

I said, yes. It's getting a little embarrassing because I have more than $20 ,000 and we chatted for a while and he upped it to $40 ,000. So the matching fund is $40 ,000 plus the $40 ,000 which would be $80 ,000.

You may want to give some thought to that because our experience is that matching funds are very interesting. Anyway, if you put this letter with the ICT photo brochure have all of you had this? Anyway, there's extras over here.

It will help you know who you're praying for. I especially appreciate prayer for Philip Morris. I just talked to Philip on the phone actually from the woods. He's made this very, very important decision today to go ahead with further chemotherapy including this sort of special kind of transplant that's somewhat new, radical.

You have to eventually be isolated for I think almost a month and that's it. When they give that to you they can't apparently give any more. Philip was leaning away from that for a while but we had a special prayer on Monday especially for wisdom and he has decided to go that direction of course saturating it with prayer which is what we've been doing.

Again, we'd also ask your prayers for Bill Drake who's just having such a phenomenal ministry. He's just come back from concerts, tours in Northern Ireland, Belgium, Denmark, Southern Africa and pray because it's a challenging life as a musician in Operation Mobilization.

I wanted to give that to you. Now all these books that I brought are all free. I would like you to take them after the meeting tonight. In fact, if you look through the book and you don't want it, you can just stick it back on the bookstall.

All the books in here are also free. Again, you don't have to take a book if you don't want but you actually help our ministry when you take a book because we're trying to get books out around the world so that they're available and accessible and the price of postage is just going up, up, up.

We're not just grabbing all the time big boxes of books and shipping them out because you don't have always the money to pay the postage. But every book here, almost every one, has a purpose. Let me first start with a book on theology.

Some of you are theologians and you like to read about Christ. Is there anything greater to read about than Christ himself? Peter Lewis, in some ways, is another Tony Sargent. Through Tony we got to know him.

He's a powerful church and we're all being a two-weeks time in Nottingham. An amazing man. I hope we're going to see him more on our ships and in other parts of the world. He's in great demand as a speaker.

He came out with this book, which I've been just getting my spiritual teeth into, The Glory of Christ, the whole theology of Christ. If you don't have your theology, Christology, if you don't have that right, everything else is going to be wrong.

He's the center, he's the roof, he's the walls, he's the foundation. That might be a book to start with. I think you know what you pay for these kinds of books these days. These are not books we're trying to get rid of.

I do buy them at special prices and I also buy them to encourage the authors. This book is just out. I think it's already reprinting. It's selling very well. You're talking £9 .99. That's $15. I think you're aware of the snare and our burden to minister to people and help them avoid sexual entanglements.

This woman's book is brilliant. She will be ministering at the conference this year, New Recruits Conference, hopefully on the day when there will still be a lot of people there from the previous conference.

We brought one golden only, just in case you didn't have it. Now this book may still be around, but the behavior that I have to hear about quite often indicates that it's not being read. Here's a brand new book on tent making.

Working Your Way to the Nations, A Guide to Effective Tent Making. To me, books like this are diamonds. There's probably not that many of these in Britain. Comes from the William Carey Library, got it from Pasadena.

But if you're looking for a serious study, there's things you have to do when you go through this on this whole area of tent making, boy, there it is. This came out, I think, in connection with WEF, World Evangelical Fellowship.

Brand new. Prayer. XOMer Ian Newberry, working in France, has a great ministry of mobilizing people for prayer. To me, missions mobilization and prayer mobilization must go together. A ministry of people like David Bryant and others has to go side by side with the ministry of recruiting, the ministry of mobilizing in other ways.

If some of you are interested in this kind of very serious study of prayer, it's basically a study of prayer in the local church. Again, it's a workbook, not in bookshops, you won't find it in the average OM book table, but it's unusual.

We used that at an OM conference some years ago where we used this material.

Is the material in there, would that be useful for OM prayer meetings?

I think there's some in there. Some material in there definitely could be used in an OM prayer meeting. And I hope, I appreciate you mentioning that, because one of the things I would like all of you to do is help in declaring war against boredom in an OM prayer meeting.

It is completely ridiculous that a prayer meeting gets boring. It should be one of the high events of the week. And it takes planning, it takes preparation. We know there will be moments of intense spiritual warfare, which for some people may be boring, because they're not in it, struggling for the souls of men.

Reentry, Support Raising, and Missionary Care

This is another book that has shot right to the top of the OM reading list. We needed this book three decades ago. The story of reentry, whether it's OM or YWAM or any other group, from mission service back to one's hometown and home church is frightening.

And the more material we can get to help people with reentry. We've got people raving about this book. We've had other materials. Some people managed to get them in the past. Most people never got them.

We had reentry conferences. A few got to them. Many never got to them. Now we have something simple, easy to distribute. And I'm sure you already have a copy. Feel free to take it. Another book that is just going bonanzas right now is friend raising.

Building a missionary support team that lasts. When you take a book like this or you invest in a few dozen of these, I don't think you can go wrong. Most of our people in our movement are struggling with this.

Leaders 25 years into work are struggling with this. Living under false guilt. Right now there's probably at least 100 people contemplating leaving OM on this issue alone. Which is so ridiculous in a world where there's literally millions and millions and hundreds of millions in the hands of God's people.

And some of it is just waiting to be asked for. Not necessarily saying it's easy. But I do believe there are some basic principles. God's been teaching us. I think of my own nephew. He had no support.

He comes from a little dinky church. George Cooper. He went to this seminar they have in Atlanta on how to raise support. He decided to take it literally. It's a good way to take some of these things.

Go back and do just what they taught him. Get all the support in a couple of months. It's exciting. This is another golden oldie. Went out of print in this country because it wasn't selling fast enough.

I don't know how that happened. So we brought them in from Moody. Their edition is better anyway. Oswald Saunders, a great New Zealander, who only died a couple of years ago. Even in his senior citizen years he was writing a book a year.

But I don't think any of his books are better than that. So if you missed that, there's the opportunity. Now as I look around this room it seems to me almost every single person is married except the leader of the group.

But she is an incredibly mature person. So she will not find this a problem. This is the book. Okay, take it easy. This is a book that every married couple should look at and read. Let me just say this.

My experience, and I've been counseling married people ever since I was a baby Christian is that Christians often have more hang-ups than unconverted people. They bring spirituality in in a wrong way to the whole sexual issue and it just breaks my heart.

Even those three days in Dubai I wasn't there to do any married counseling. I was just so brief. These people that came to me, Indians, just married, one or two years and we slipped into Mike Hayes' office for a few minutes and she began to share constantly arguing.

And as we began to talk we realized, though they had never shared this with anybody, there was, as far as sex in their marriage, zero, absolute zero. It's not unusual. And marriages often come apart because this is neglected.

Someone once said to me, if you've got this side of your marriage together you can handle all kinds of pressure. If this goes, those other things get magnified. And the enemy has a field day. And the story of difficulties in OIM in this area no one has ever told.

They're too ugly. But this poor soul who's been in it a long time knows the story. So when you see me pushing this book and we distribute it in a network in a plain wrapper box just like anything else that book could be used by certain people for a lust trip.

There's a lot of things around us that can be misused. And that's true of that book. That's not going to stop me from distributing. I can assure you people have misused the Bible. Especially the cults.

Two other items. This is the 82 ,000 handbook. I think most of you have this. Again, another very hard to get book. But you can get one here. And you need at least one because when you have only one, somebody else wants it.

And then you have to part with your only copy. And another unusual book on missions that's produced by Mark. The Changing Shape of the World. How many of you have seen this? Did you all get a copy? There it is.

Missions Sending Churches and Mobilization Tools

Three other items that I'm not giving away because you have too much to carry. But there are some copies around. Serving as senders. Don't give up using this. The New Edition, Chapter 8, is about O .M.

This is just so significant. I mean, how? How we sometimes in O .M. can spend so much time on issues that if we really look carefully our periphery to what we're actually attempting to do and leave to one side a gold nugget like this is beyond me.

Because the number of serious sending churches in the world today is not that great. Most people would say you're talking about less than 2%, 3 of the churches. And to take meetings in those churches to talk, to get started and not give them some tools so they have something to carry on with is crazy.

Even in famous churches like First Baptist, Atlanta Charles, Stanley's Church when they discovered this book maybe they didn't discover it, I think they sent it to them they immediately made everybody into a missions committee.

Many missions committees are not reading missions books. They have that job. I would have thought everybody in a missions committee needs a course like this, two weeks or more in which they can focus on what they're doing.

Anyway, that's an old one. Here's a new one. I'm hesitant to push this and I wish I had an hour to talk to you about territorial spirits because if you don't realize that's one of the hottest issues in the evangelical world today you must be functioning under a log somewhere.

I even had another strong letter from Dulas urging me and the movement to really get into real spiritual warfare I haven't answered that letter yet but let us not throw away the concept of spiritual warfare or territorial spirits or spiritual mapping just with one sweep that there's nothing in it simply because some people have gotten extreme.

In any case, we try to take a middle position and we don't want to just come down hard on some young Christian who's just come from a spiritual warfare conference in his home church and the first thing you do is try to blow him out of his socks let's go sensitively.

I talked to Steve Hawthorne on the phone about his book and the more I read this book the more excited I got. He's a salesman. He wrote me and sent me a sample. I ended up buying 500. He said to me you must have read How to Win Friends and Influence People he said to me, realize that you've been in this for years.

Sales pitch. Well, thank you. I don't know why I didn't write a book. So I phoned him up and told him what a discerning person he was. That's right, Harold. I was the one that when I got fished into talking about fishing, fished into the 82 ,000 movement with a fever one night in Colorado Springs was wrestling with whether I had the courage to stand in front of the Peter Wagner and confront him about territorial spirits and some of the things he said.

To give you the background on this my phone calls with Paul Cedars who wanted me to get involved in 82 ,000 and with Louise Bush and others I said the prayer track seems to be extreme and it's going to shoot the movement in the foot.

I thought that would turn them off and say thank you very much, we don't want you in 82 ,000. It swung around the opposite way. We need this side, we need this view point in 82 ,000, please come. They gave me this chairmanship job of the track for the mobilization of two missionaries.

Here suddenly I am in Colorado Springs. Peter Wagner is giving his report. It's really spectacular. Would I have this burden? Would I have the courage to confront him anyway? God gave grace and I did confront him.

I very much like him. His answers to the questions were very poor so other people really came into the ring. This whole area of territorial spirits and spiritual mapping is one of the hot discussion areas in 82 ,000.

The thing you need to understand about 82 ,000. It's not an organization. It has not one theological position though it is basically evangelical and in some ways it's messy. So I would encourage you to read this book and to keep your eyes open on the subject of territorial spirits and perhaps you'd pray about taking this position with me that spiritual warfare is not just one thing and we must not confuse one aspect of spiritual warfare like, for example, moving in prayer against evil and demon forces in Afghanistan and call that spiritual warfare.

Spiritual warfare to me is everything that happens from the moment you're born again defending yourself against the attacks of the enemy offensive efforts into Satan's strongholds even as a daily Christian and I have a fear of some of the language coming out these days from things like some of the spiritual warfare emphasis some of the spiritual mapping emphasis is that we create another level of language.

Already as missionaries we're separate from the average person by language. They don't know what we're talking about. 1040 window, we have to explain. I think this country is double glazing. We're already having enough problems in the area of language and we have churches like Willow Creek that have set the example in adjusting language to reach totally pagan people and I know there's dangers but I see a lot of validity in that.

I think the same is true as we spread the vision and missions that we especially as we stand among ordinary people in the average church we must watch our language and some of the language can really get bizarre and young Christians grab it.

It's like running down the road with little sticks of dynamite that are already ignited. Lastly, a book that brings other books into balance. This came out of the tragedy in Cape Town when that church was attacked by terrorists and many, many people were killed.

Our ship was in the port at that time. I ministered in that church four weeks before. There's a few of these around the corner. If you want some, I could get some more down here but we didn't bring extras today.

Evaluating Prayer Walking and Spiritual Mapping

Let's just take a moment to interact on what I've just said. I've presented a lot of materials. You've got an equal to a seminary theological course. Let's have some reaction. Anybody want to ask me about anything that I've just shared?

Because one of the methods I use in communication is when I'm giving a book review you're getting several messages if you're intelligent at the same time. That's all I'm going to say tonight about prayer walking.

I'm going to open for questions before I give part two. Let's talk about one key issue. There's the definite teaching that on-site praying is where it's at. The church has spent literally millions to fly people all over the world for on-site praying and standing against the demon forces in that area.

I'm not going on record that I'm totally against this but I think it just needs some discussion. The last thing we want to do is quench anybody who's interested in praying. Let's be careful. There's not that many around.

I'd rather see a guy on a tangent on a prayer walk in Istanbul than in a bar in Vancouver. We want to make sure that people understand that effective prayer can take place from their own house. A lot of people don't have the money to go on these trips anyway.

So we don't want people to think they cannot be in a major prayer assault for Cairo or Alexandria or wherever without going on a journey. What about the church prayer meeting which needs to be revived, restated, restructured.

Another thing that's important and they love the word balance. George Otis, who I talked to Peter Wagner, they do want balance. Balance means different things to different people but I think they're open.

One of the most important papers on this subject was actually written by Mike Wakely. Peter Wagner got that paper. I got his letter back. It was very gracious. Just two sentences but it was very gracious.

He said, we want to look into this and hear what you have to say. In some way, Cindy Jacobs one of the women in this whole thing is more over the top than even others I understand. Recently in one of their meetings in California somebody really jumped up after her message and there was heavy confrontation.

One of the things that was distressing that we confronted our brother on was that he gave the idea that all prayer up until these books was more pietistic, confessional type of prayer. When he answered one of the questions that's when he said Patrick Johnson moved into the ring.

Other people moved into the ring because that is not true. To say that the people that came before this type of prayer didn't understand intercessory prayer which is a different name for intercessory prayer would be a great mistake.

Tied into that also is to make sure we don't give the impression in one tape that I listened to it gave the impression that the people who were there before were really sort of wasting their time. The missionaries that were there without these tools without the maps were really sort of wasting their time.

I think that's a great mistake. I think they would pull back from that now. But we need to honor those who have been out on the field maybe they didn't understand spiritual mappings and didn't have diagrams of all the demonic strongholds.

I'm sure some of you are quite new on this probably have made a decision already now not to go into it. But different temperaments react different ways. Others can't wait to get Peter Wagner's books and George Otis' journals on spiritual mapping in Chicago.

My last comment on this is that it does seem to overfocus on evil and one of the things that helped this become popular was Peretti's book which in some ways was a great novel, but it was a novel. But it laid the groundwork on some of these films.

It is a tough area we can't run away from it. Most people in OM are reading. We do hear different styles of praying sometimes in OM meetings. We don't want to hit people on the head for that. Sometimes we may want to have a chat with them privately.

Especially, I'm nervous, if the ships all the range of people on the ships start moving into this I can just imagine people on the bow casting, moving the demons away as they move through the water because one of the greatest stories of some of these guys is that they've broken the power of the Bermuda Triangle through this kind of praying.

The Bermuda Triangle power has been broken. You should see some of the letters I have as to why the Lagos subject. I'm not going to publish them. To not think that some of God's people get into superstition is to be naive Someone else?

Evangelism, Catholic Cooperation, and Holistic Ministry

Chuck Colson This stuff is really good. I would really like to see that. We've got so much good that's been pushed. I think we should move more into.

Being a little more relevant politically Chuck Colson's stuff is great. I'm just reading another one of his books now. The complexity is that Chuck Colson has even in the last few weeks become a major pusher in the unite with the Catholic movement.

That's just happened in the States recently. He's always moved in that direction. If you read his book The Body 82 ,000 tried originally to work in evangelism with the Roman Catholic Church. The meeting in Singapore.

The Latin Americans walked out. A lot of people did a lot of thinking a lot of praying. A specific stand of 82 ,000 was that Roman Catholics were targets. Not to cooperate in evangelism but to be evangelized.

I understand, I may be wrong on this that David Barrett, the man who produces the big books in statistics I think he sort of distanced himself from 82 ,000 and there's quite a strong feeling that this 82 ,000 is too narrow.

I think one of the reasons that Chuck Colson and others are moving into more collaboration with Catholics is of course because of the abortion issue and some of those other issues and of course that is tied into the fact that there is this phenomenal pressure on the church to be holistic.

I don't think the church has the spiritual reality to be able to respond positively or properly to the holistic challenge and so we're finding Christians just running into trying to do all different kinds of things instead of finding out their giftedness where they fit in, what does God want them to do.

There's a rushing in and people are experiencing burnout and getting glued. Of course we've seen what's happened in the abortion issue with so many in jail. I'm not saying they shouldn't have done that to me it's just a complex issue my heart just aches.

But I personally think OM's position is probably not going to move and not just because of me. I think it's a consensus that the doctrinal issues connected with Roman Catholicism are too big. They cannot be put in the area of peripheral issues that we don't really have to worry about and just unite on more basic things.

We do have a lot in common doctrinally with Roman Catholics but the other areas are huge. So that's the latest thing I've been trying to get together with Chuck Colson and he's indicated he wants that to happen and regardless of this will continue to be one of my heroes and I will continue to read his books and follow his material and thank God for such a man in the church in our day.

But we can see some interesting things down the road. Sometimes when we're talking about a particular thing we don't think it's relevant but if you're involved like some of you from the ship if you're involved in counseling with a lot of OM people you'll discover that a lot of these things that these books are talking about are more relevant because the church is so pluralistic.

We have people at OM coming from fairly tight brethren assemblies with a guy who just came from a vineyard church if you don't know what vineyard is I realize you've probably been out seeing Muslims converted not worrying about vineyard but you might want to think about it in the future because John Wimber, the founder of Vineyard has moved from his emphasis on signs, wonders and miracles.

He even said he doesn't want to talk about that much anymore. His thing is world evangelism and planting churches. Ed Retta is in a vineyard church in Dallas. I just ministered in a great vineyard church in Canada about a year or so ago.

So how do we keep this together these people coming together. It's not going to be easy and I think that's one of the reasons we see the need for this kind of advanced leadership training to sometimes get into issues that maybe normally we haven't gotten into before and I think it's also one of the reasons why I believe leaders need to be more widely read.

Reading Christianity today to me is just basic to know what is going on in the body of Christ to get a few Christian magazines to get also secular periodicals and magazines and read, I know we all have our limits.

To me is very important. Someone else, anything else too many things. Maybe. Ok let's pray and then I'll share final thoughts. Lord I just thank you now that I can move on from these different areas all of which have some degree of relevance into the heart of what I want to share tonight.

I don't like that terminology because some of these other things are just important. But you know what I'm trying to pray help us now, in Jesus name, amen. Why has George Burr become the chairman of the 82 ,000 track for the mobilization of new missionaries.

What in fact is 82 ,000, is it relevant. Where does OM fit into 82 ,000. I think this is an important issue since it looks like there will be more OMers in Korea in May of 1995 than almost any other organization in the world apart from perhaps Youth with a Mission maybe one or two others even without my involvement other people around the world were getting involved.

I got the list of national coordinators of 82 ,000 suddenly discovered this person is responsible for this area, for this country, for that country. We are in this now. We're not in it in a total official sense where we've all taken a vote and we're all running down the road.

We're in it in the sense that different people have gotten involved at different levels. I guess Dave Hicks was one of the first to get officially involved. I around that time also went to one of their conferences in the Baltic states with all these Russian pastors from all over mainly through the invitation of Thomas Wang who's been a friend for 25 years was really the spearhead leader.

He's now the chairman and the spearhead leader is Louise Bush. Another person I've been linked with. David Hicks came to us some time ago at area level talking about all this. He's on the USA board and said he felt we should have the area leaders meeting in May of 95 in Korea we usually meet here.