James Coates Interview

Hello dear ones, my name is Justin Peters. I hope that you and your family are doing well today. I want to thank you very much for watching this video and in this video I'm going to be interviewing Pastor James Coach.

James is the pastor of Grace Life Church in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Undoubtedly, most of you know that he has was arrested and spent over a month in prison. And so I know this is kind of a lengthy video, but I really would Encourage you to watch all of it and don't miss the concluding remarks.

And I have everything time-stamped down there below. So please do watch that because the conclusion of this I think it's got some really powerful stuff. You'll hear a letter from James Coach read by John MacArthur and Some some important things there at the end.

So Thank you very much for watching and we'll go into it right now. It is a distinct honor and privilege to be able to interview James coach. James coach, you probably know that name. He is the pastor of Grace Life Church in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and Most if not, all of you know that James was arrested.

He spent over a month in prison.

For.

Holding church for having church services in violation of the health mandates related to kovat up in Canada, and so James is out of prison and He is graciously agreed to do this interview with me. I just want to take this opportunity to to talk with James and let you hear from him About how things are going with him and some of the things that he has experienced over the past few months.

So James brother, thank you very much for joining me for this program.

Yeah, it's my pleasure. Thank you for your patience just in it coming together. We've been trying to do this for a little while now. Yeah. Yeah, no worries. No worries.

You've you've had much on your plate. So that is quite. All right. So James, I I think most everyone probably watching knows kind of the gist of what is going on with you. But we may have some people watching for the first time and are not familiar With your story.

So tell us a little bit about who you are. Where you pastor and and what's been going on in the past few months if you will.

Yeah, so my name is James Coates and I have been the pastor teacher at Grace Life Church for well since about January 2013, but I've been at Grace Life Church and preaching for Nearly 11 years now and I'm a graduate of the master seminary twice actually because I completed a doctor of ministry in Well, just last May actually, oh and so, yeah, we've been just faithfully doing ministry all this time and and our church has been growing spiritually and and numerically and and In this season of the the virus with kovat 19 we we got to the point of of Opening our church having determined that the virus itself was not severe enough to warrant fundamentally altering the way that we worship and and initially we were open and and just doing life as usual and not receiving a lot of attention but and and not having kovat 19 cases in our church.

And then in November There was a second declared public health emergency and that really upped the ante as far as the attention That we were receiving from AHS, which is our Health Services Department as well as the media and and so into December things began to heat up where media is just outside our church and and videoing what's happening in our parking lot as people go into the church and AHS is coming to our services with the RCMP, which is our police service in our region of this province and and so we've got the RCMP and AHS in our building for our services to basically see what's taking place and gather evidence that's gonna be used against us and and you know, we Did our best efforts to honor the RCMP as they came into our facility?

And so we would actually stand and applaud them for their their services to our Our community and We realized that they've got a tough job to do. Even though what they're doing right now and my estimation is outside the scope of what they ought to be doing.

They shouldn't really be enforcing health orders it should be Enforcing against crime. But anyway things just slowly escalated and.

And.

Did to the point where on February 17th or rather starting February 7th, I was given an undertaking I was arrested with an undertaking and. That that undertaking built into it had a condition that I comply with the Public Health Act.

Which meant that I would have to comply with all the public health orders and I indicated that that at that time I could not agree to that condition and. And they said that's fine you can refuse the condition but it's still going to be in force and.

So when we met on the 14th. The next Sunday I was in violation of that condition. And so I I drove myself into the RCMP on Tuesday following that Sunday was was arrested detained and brought before a justice of the peace and.

The no James as you drove yourself to the RCMP, did you know that was gonna mean your arrest?

Yeah, I knew I was gonna be arrested and You know, there was reason to believe that I would be released but part of the reason that I was given that impression is because Typically when you're given a bail condition you sign it.

So the the the officer that I was engaged with Didn't really have a Category for not signing your bail condition. So he believed that was going to be going home that day with a bail condition and So when I brought was brought before the justice of the peace I was not going to be Taken to remand.

He didn't think that the the violation on The 14th warranted me being imprisoned. But he gave me a condition That required that I agreed to abide by the Public Health Act now. There's two things with that one if I agree to that condition Functionally, I can't I can't carry out my ministry as I believe the Lord would have me do right?

So I'm I'm basically Handing the keys over to Caesar and letting Caesar dictate the terms of worship to us. So there's that piece. The second piece is if I sign the condition and then just you know decide I'm gonna willfully violate that condition the the legal issues that you step into at that point in time are are are exponentially greater.

Because I.

Mean you're taking the criminal side of it to a whole new level at that point in time by breaching your bail condition. So, you know, I mean, it's an integrity issue on the one hand. I mean, are you gonna sign a condition and then go and violate it?

That's that's that's inappropriate all on its own but even to do that is just Increasing the the weight of the law against you. So, excuse me. So yeah, I I couldn't sign that condition and and that meant that I was gonna end up at remand.

And so that's where I was for 35 days. I was in jail for 35 days at remand. Yeah. Wow.

Suffering, Conviction, and the Cost of Faithful Ministry

Well James. So many of us have watched you and in your family through this and I had the opportunity to interview your wife Erin. While you were in in prison and and I you and I talked a little bit for a few minutes before this interview started.

And so you've heard me say this already, but for those watching.

Erin.

Has just been amazing through this. I was so impressed in Watching a couple of interviews that she did with others and then when I interviewed her her poise the depth of understanding of the issue her Focus on Scripture and the authority of Scripture and the importance of your role as a shepherd and Brother, what what a wife God has given you.

I mean she is just she was so very Very impressive and then how she handled all this. Do you have anything to add to that? I'm sure you do. I mean, I would just say she is the real deal and.

Huge a huge blessing in my life next to my salvation the greatest gift my my greatest earthly treasure and. Yeah, I mean she she's the real deal and she she gets it and and there's times when she'll even Address the matter and and say it better than I do.

And and so she's yeah, she's a phenomenal woman I love her dearly and Couldn't have asked for a better Wife to be with me in ministry. I mean God had a plan when he put us together and so yeah, just richly blessed.

Yeah.

It's it's amazing. Oh I can't even imagine what what you have been through as a family and and I kind of hesitate to. To ask this question because I see like when you see something on the news. Someone's been through a tragedy and the reporter always asked well, well, how are you feeling and you you know.

You think well, how do you think they're feeling? It's not fun. So at risk of asking one of those questions obviously, this has been an extreme trial and continues to be for y 'all but. What has this been like for you personally for Aaron for your family.

Give us it. Can you give us a sense of some of the emotions and things that you've experienced through all this?

Yeah, and it's difficult to even try and Summarize that and and to do so in a way that would be helpful even to your audience. We're living this and so we're this is this is life and It's not glamorous.

To be sure it's difficult. It's challenging. God's grace is with us. Power is perfected in weakness. And so his grace is sufficient.

And.

So this is just life for us. It's it's it's where the Lord has us. We've been through seasons that are challenging in ministry. And so we know what it's like to suffer for the sake of biblical ministry and and now this is certainly on a new level and new scale and different context than we've ever experienced, but.

And it's been something that's progressed, right? Like we it just didn't arrive. There's been a we're in a season and this season has been progressing over time. So we've had time to acclimate to each step along the way and and to Prepare even for my imprisonment.

I mean we we knew that that was a possibility and and so we're having Discussions and even to some extent, you know utilizing humor to to address the reality that imprisonment is on the horizon and.

I.

Mean because if you're gonna purchase something, you know, one of the questions you're gonna have is well Am I even gonna be able to utilize this if I'm in prison, for example you know. And and so there's a little bit of levity that you would employ to Sort of digest the reality of what's taking place.

Right, and so, you know, I think along the way in preparation for me I had to basically have moments where I'm brought to a fork in the road and having to look at the the reality of enforcement and consequences and Having to decide am I gonna follow Christ am I gonna be willing to submit myself to the cost and there's all kinds of turmoil.

All the things you would expect to experience are there in those moments. The Stress of them the anxiety of them. I mean I remember for example On a particular Saturday when I had asked my lawyer. You know, what are the odds?

You know what it was it was.

After.

But middle of January we were taken to court and given a court order to abide by the the health guidelines and We opted to continue to gather and that would have put us in contempt of court and contempt of court in Alberta comes with a a Consequence of up to two years in prison and so.

You.

Know and then as I'm parsing it all out and. Even as a leadership we had to decide what we were gonna do as I parse that all that I go. Well, I.

Mean.

What are the odds they're gonna actually put me in prison? I mean, I'm a pastor, you know. So there's gonna be a consequence, but surely they're not gonna put me in prison. Well on that Saturday. Right about noon. I speak with my lawyer and I just I asked the question.

So what are the odds that we're actually gonna see I'm gonna see jail time for this and he was like, well pretty likely and and I said Okay, he's like yeah, you're not gonna likely see two years, but you know a couple of months and.

And so that that that comes with a blow, you know. Yeah, and so that day. You know after that phone call I'm I'm bearing the weight of the reality of possible jail time for simply having a church service.

Right and and and so there, you know. You're feeling all of the things you would expect to feel in that moment fear anxiety pressure stress. There's physiological effects, you know from you know headaches to the everything that you experience when you're under that kind of pressure and.

And the Lord just ministers to you in the midst of that and he carries you through that and you digest it and then you Come to the place with okay Lord, if this is what you want me to do, I'm gonna do it.

And so you have all of these moments like that along the way so that you're you're being prepared. Yeah, or you know the the consequences that are gonna come and and then by the time it is time to decide between whether you're gonna You know choose your comforts or end up in prison you've kind of already settled it and and you know you're going to jail, so.

Well, so yeah, I mean it's it's been it's been a whirlwind for sure and it's not over so yeah.

Was there ever a time? I'm sure the temptation had to be there but how how how severe was the temptation. How much of a temptation was it to say when the reality of Prison was sitting setting in with you.

How much was the temptation to say, you know. Let's just do it. Like other churches are doing it. We'll we'll we'll do zoom meetings like you and I are doing now. Well, you know, we don't like it. We don't agree with it.

But let's let's go along. Let's let's bow to Caesar and let him have his way for this season and then we'll get back to it later. How much of a temptation was that for you?

You know, it's not a great temptation, I mean there's no question that you you as You there's a part of you that wants to avoid suffering. I mean. You know, even if you think about our Lord in the garden He's asking is there another way.

And and even this morning as I'm I'm with the Lord and praying and and and just feeling the context that we're currently in I'm asking the same question. Is there another way to be faithful? And and not and not go through what we're going through so there's no question that you're asking that question and.

And.

But it doesn't it's not it's not a big temptation. Because it doesn't take long for you to go. I can't. There's this compulsion within that. Just you can't I Can't. It's a conviction that just won't go away it is it is settled and so you know you you ask the question and you you you look down that road and and and but it doesn't take long for You to go.

Yeah, I can't do that. Yeah, and and then and that's where you your resolve begins to build and that's where you you you know, you you Plant your your your flag and and. And you park your car and you just don't move.

Yeah. Yeah.

Amen.

Well, you and I were talking just before the interview started and I said that there will be no doubt with your kids that their dad believes What he professes from the pulpit that he believes that it's not just Lip service.

It's not just a performance on Sunday morning. I mean you have fleshed that out. There will be no doubt your kids know that you believe what you say. You believe.

Well, and you know what like that's a huge that's a huge piece. So I've preached Daniel 3 You know, I've preached on the the cost of following Christ and and when you're in a season like this You're gonna make Portions of scripture portions of scripture.

As a preacher you can't go to Right reach them with passion and no one's gonna listen to you because you you are not willing to Take a stand for Christ and and so that's a huge thing. I mean as a preacher I Don't want to come to texts that that require Thunder from heaven on the need to be resolved to obey Christ.

That I can't even preach them because I was unwilling To obey him as it relates to his headship over the church. I mean, this is critical Right, who is the head of the church?

And.

So yeah, I mean that's significant. I I I there's an Internal joy and blessing that is there right now even in this moment because I know Give me a portion of scripture to preach and I can preach it and.

And as a preacher you you you want that and and so praise God for that I just give him thanks and praise that that I don't need to avoid portions of scripture and. And so I don't know what to do with these other guys who are complying.

You know, I don't know how they. Do they ever preach Daniel 3, you know, do they do they ever preach Daniel 6, which is even more fitting. Yeah, um, I don't know. I don't know what they do. Yeah, exactly.

Brother, I've told people often in my own teaching. There's Obedience is in and of itself its own reward. Hmm. Cause we know we are when we are obedient to Christ. We are pleasing Christ and whether or not we see tangible benefits tangible rewards for that whether or not we see it.

Sometimes we do. Sometimes we don't. But knowing that we are pleasing Christ that is the reward and. And you have the blessing of having a clear conscience. I so appreciate what you just said. You can you can go to any text and Preach it with a clear conscience and there's no value that you can put on that.

Amen. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

Life in Remand: Prison Conditions, Daily Routine, and Ministry Opportunities

James talk to us a little bit about what you experienced on the inside.

Hmm.

What did you have with you. Did. Did you have a Bible. What. What did you do. What was a typical day like for you.

One of the challenges in prison is you know, if you think about being in your home, you've got a Chair and a desk that you you typically like to work at if there's a place that you want to relax for a bit.

You've got a seat or a chair in the home a couch That you like to sit on that you can you can enjoy and and so you got a picture yourself in a cell with a bed that Isn't the most comfortable bed and and basically.

One.

One kind of really hard sort of bench that that you can sit at with a table that you can use a little tiny table and. And that's about the extent of it so you can either stand. You can lie down on your bed or you can kind of sit on this pretty hard bench and you're in your cell quite a bit, I mean.

Once out of the quarantine, I was basically out of my cell for about three hours a day. So that means for 21 hours. You're you're in your cell. You know, so one of the challenges as I reflect on it is just is just being comfortable, you know in the time that you're in your cell and.

What's really interesting is the guys that are that are often in prison are very Industrial so they cut they've they got all these ways to kind of make the cell more Accommodating more comfortable than it would be otherwise and so the guy that I was with.

He he made like a seat cushion for me so that I could sit on this really hard, you know bench and. And be and be comfortable because I spent a lot of time on that little seat there. Yeah, and. Yeah, so I mean it's it's it's hard on the body and.

And and my body's actually I'm I'm in a place in my life where I was an athlete early on and for a long time now I've been kind of. You know, I've been a little bit athletic with some of the stuff that I do but I might I'm losing lots of muscle and and.

And I'm experiencing all kinds of pain in my body in my hips for example. And and it's I think it's just the I need to go to the gym and I need to work out and and so. But yeah being in prison is is hard in the body.

So you're you're feeling it in in in different ways and and I started to do some exercises while I was in there. That was to kind of mitigate that and it was actually helpful. You know that the food component is a challenge because what they provide is not really enough to sustain you.

I mean I'm probably like a 2 ,000 to 2 ,500 calories a day kind of a guy and I think with the food that they provide you. You might get like I don't know 12 to 1500 calories. And so then you gotta you gotta make up The calories through what they call canteen so you buy canteen from the store basically and that gets delivered once a week.

But even then it's it's trying to figure out like how are you gonna make up the difference? What are you gonna do? You can eat Doritos, you know all day or or and I I it took me a little bit to kind of figure out how to Use the canteen to not take its toll on my body as well.

And so it's a lot of peanuts and almonds and stuff like that to try and make up the difference and. So, yeah that the food components a challenge. And you know in in any given day you're up and down depending on what's going on I could receive all these letters on on a day and and that would provide a couple of hours of Encouragement and joy and blessing and would really put fuel in you to persevere and then you could get information either from the radio that was coming into your cell because you can listen to talk radio and it's left-wing so it's it's not for you at all and.

And so you're that's coming in so you're you're you're dealing with that and and so yeah. It's just up and down very up and down. I didn't know that I would ever get out of there to be honest with you I didn't I just didn't know that that I would ever get out and I was in there knowing that that was a possibility and Because you know while I'm in there for why I'm in there everything on the outside is escalating I mean the government is just doubling down and tripling down on you know their enforcement and Restrictions and guidelines and so I just didn't have any Confidence that I was gonna be able to get out and it's amazing to you like just so you know.

Like I literally could have you know walked to the the desk where the guards were on any day at really any moment and just said I'd like to sign my condition and that would have begun the process of getting out like I Literally and you're in your cell so you can call down.

I could have just used the Telecom and said guys I want to sign my condition and that would just start the process I would have been out, you know later that day or the following day. And that wasn't that wasn't a real temptation either to be honest with you.

It it really wasn't I you know, I had moments I had a phone call with with a number of the guys in our leadership on a Sunday morning I called Aaron on a Sunday morning and they're they're gathered at the church and and and I ended up talking on speakerphone to a number of the guys and I was I remember a Sunday pretty late in me before weeks in where I was just kind of you know, a little bit down and and wanting out and.

But even then it's not like I'm tempted to go in and and sign the condition. I think I said at one point if I was ever feeling tempted to do that now's the time but it wasn't a real temptation. But yeah, I could just literally ask them.

Let them know I'm ready and and they would have done the paperwork and I would have been out of there. So. But yeah, I mean you're just you're just trying to you're just trying to plow through each day and and.

And.

You know, I I like getting to bedtime for whatever reason and. And you go to bed and you wake up in the morning and you do it all over again, so yeah, yeah. Wow.

Well, I'll tell you brother a pastor in your situation that it was not committed to Sufficiency of Scripture, of course, he wouldn't have been in there in the first place, but just for I mean theoretically.

You know a pastor that has been blown about by say like the winds of social justice or you know Social gospel or something he would have he would have been pushing that intercom button in a heartbeat.

Yeah, never would have gotten there never would have gotten there, right? But let's let's say he was just for argument's sake I mean he'd have been that button would have been worn out from him pushing it.

Yeah. What about. Because this is a question I've had and I've thought about. You're a pastor. You're a shepherd and of course you were away from your flock and not that you have a flock in prison because you know a flock is by definition a church is by definition those who have been Called out and saved and the assumption is is that Most of the guys in prison are not regenerate.

I know Salvation does happen in prison, but most of them are not. You know, they're not regenerate when they come in. So what kind of Ministry to use that term opportunities. Did you have? With the men That you were were with did you have witnessing opportunities with some of those guys?

What was what was that like?

Yeah, so, I mean the guy one thing you have to know and this is somewhat surprising is that more guys In prison believe they're Christians than you would think. Yeah. Yeah, so so in some cases You're you're almost trying to get them unsaved.

All right, get them saved, you know, right and and there was quite a bit of that for sure, but And and that even in some ways, you know applied to my My my cellmate like I I challenged him a little bit because he believes he's a Christian and and you know I I didn't want to pass judgment on the man, but I was I was I could hear him speak and.

And I was saying like, you know I think I think we need to evaluate whether or not you've truly been born from above like I I'm not I'm not denying that you have positive sentiment toward Jesus, but but I'm not totally convinced you know the Lord and.

And he was open to that. He didn't take that with offense and and I had time to You know spend with him reading the scriptures with him and and and talking to him just as an aside. I Read him Daniel 3 just a straight reading and I just read it to him and when it was all said and done He's just like man.

That sounds a lot like what you're going through just a straight read I didn't you know and Anyway, so so I had lots of opportunity with him. Guys would just come to my door. I'd be in my cell and they'd be on exercise.

Because there's there's three tiers and so there's a tier on exercise at any given time unless we're all in our our cells for for food and to eat and. And so guys would just come to our door and they'd knock on the door and they'd be like, are you the pastor?

And I would say yeah, I'm the pastor and and I'd I'd just be talking to them through the door and. Which is really amazing just as an aside. Let's say hypothetically you want Hot water and you're in your cell and another guy is on Exercise they've got a way to pour hot water Through the door to a guy in his cell so you can get the hot water.

He needs to have a coffee I mean just just very industrious guys the way they they do stuff. So anyway, lots of opportunities like that where guys would come and I would be basically ministering to them through the door on my my tear it got to the point where we were doing Bible study in the evening and I was basically just in John and John 1 on who Christ is and always taking it back to the gospel John 3 and the new birth John 10.

And.

And just getting into the gospel and regeneration and and answering questions they had and so and and that was really interesting because I would just Go and sit down open my Bible and guys would come to me.

There was one gentleman in particular that said hey Can we do a Bible study and and? We couldn't really do it like in in the cell because you're not supposed to be in somebody else's cell. So we had to go down to the floor and so he and I sit down I open my Bible and then three or four of the guys come within a minute to sit down and.

So, there's no question there there's a desire for that that there's a there's an appetite for it and. And so I had I had moments like that I'd go You know to to speak to somebody else in a in a cell and on the way by guys are banging on their door.

And want me to pray for them. You know and a lot of time it was just like pray for their bail hearing and and so they just want me to ask The Lord to grant their bail basically and yeah, but you know I I would I'd get their name and translate that into opportunities to pray for their salvation and and so there was lots of Moments like that.

I couldn't talk to the guards a whole lot. There were some guys that I got a bit of a rapport with but you know. You couldn't really have a long extended discussion with the guard effectively. They there's just a distance that's kept between them and the inmates.

And so I didn't really get a lot of opportunity to share the gospel with the guards. But but they all knew who I was, you know. Like you think about Paul and the Praetorian Guard? It didn't take long for the whole Praetorian Guard to know who I was and why I was there and I'll tell you this one story.

I Come in to my first cell. Entering into quarantine. So I'm just like I'm a newbie and I'm with three other guys. Are two other guys rather there's three of us and and the guy says the guard says great Three fresh criminals off the street and.

And and that's the kind of he's being you know facetious Sarcastic and right and I'm hearing this as a pastor who's not coming off the street who's coming out of his church.

Right and.

So I ended up going to him and and at one point just saying to him. Hey, do you know why I'm here and and that would be a an unusual question to ask because You could get like a negative response like, you know, what are you even talking to me for go back to your cell?

He could say right but I just asked him if he knew why I was There and he said no and I told him I'm here for breaking the Public Health Act as a pastor and hosting services and He looked the file so he could see that that was true.

And I forget exactly what was said at that point beyond that but I end up back in my cell and not long from there. He goes a coats and I'm like, yeah, he's he's speaking to me through my telecom. And he says you want some paper and a pen and I was just like, yeah, sure.

He's just like Bunyan did his best work in prison. So I figured you could use a paper and a pen and and that was like, you know day one or day two and and so that was like a little bit of a moment where you could see how The guards were gonna relate to me in a positive way and he's thinking, you know I'm gonna give this guy some paper and a pen he's gonna write, you know pilgrims progress number two.

So this he knew who he knew John Bunyan was yeah.

Well, and there's a number of the guards would claim to be Christian. In fact, the guards at times would feel like they had to apologize to me because I My presence there was convicting them in terms of how they spoke to the other inmates and so when we would have like they've come into your cell and do like a Survey of your cell and just see what's going on in your cell that everything's okay and so there'd be interaction that would happen briefly there and some guys would apologize because they'd be trying to say, you know, we've got to talk to the inmates the way we do because You know, we've got to make sure they understand who's boss and that kind of a thing and which I understand but you could tell it there's some conviction there.

Yeah, and. But yeah, a lot of the guys a lot of the guards would claim to be Christian to be honest.

Huh, yeah, yeah, I was just saying I mean a lot of people Claim to be Christian. I suppose most people still in at least in the United States and Canada claim to be Christian. But not many of them would know who John Bunyan is.

But yeah, no this guy he did he knew. Oh, how about that? Well were the guys were the inmates. Sorry to see you leave.

Yeah, you know.

I.

Was getting a lot of publicity because There's a radio station called ched. It's talk radio and on that Radio station every 30 minutes. They have a news loop and I was in that news loop an awful lot. In fact when I was in the cop car Going to the courthouse the day that I was going to remand and then to the remand center I could hear the the radio in the cop car Talking about me and the fact that I was going to prison and and so there was lots of Media attention that way and so and leading up to my release.