James Coates Interview

Justin Peters

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Hello dear ones, my name is Justin Peters. I hope that you and your family are doing well today I want to thank you very much for watching this video and in this video

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I'm going to be interviewing Pastor James Coach. James is the pastor of Grace Life Church in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Undoubtedly, most of you know that he has was arrested and spent over a month in prison

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And so I know this is kind of a lengthy video, but I really would Encourage you to watch all of it and don't miss the concluding remarks

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And I have everything time -stamped down there below So please do watch that because the conclusion of this

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I think it's got some really powerful stuff you'll hear a letter from James Coach read by John MacArthur and Some some important things there at the end.

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So Thank you very much for watching and we'll go into it right now It is a distinct honor and privilege to be able to interview

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James Coates James Coates, you probably know that name he is the pastor of Grace Life Church in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and Most if not, all of you know that James was arrested.

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He spent over a month in prison for Holding church for having church services in violation of the health mandates related to kovat up in Canada, and so James is out of prison and He is graciously agreed to do this interview with me

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I just want to take this opportunity to to talk with James and let you hear from him

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About how things are going with him and some of the things that he has experienced over the past few months

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So James brother, thank you very much for joining me for this program Yeah, it's my pleasure.

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Thank you for your patience just in it coming together We've been trying to do this for a little while now. Yeah. Yeah, no worries.

01:56

No worries You've you've had much on your plate. So that is quite. All right So James, I I think most everyone probably watching knows kind of the gist of what is going on with you

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But we may have some people watching for the first time and are not familiar With your story.

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So tell us a little bit about who you are Where you pastor and and what's been going on in the past few months if you will

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Yeah, so my name is James Coates and I have been the pastor teacher at Grace Life Church for well since about January 2013, but I've been at Grace Life Church and preaching for Nearly 11 years now and I'm a graduate of the master seminary twice actually because I completed a doctor of ministry in Well just last

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May actually oh and so, yeah, we've been just faithfully doing ministry all this time and and our church has been growing spiritually and and numerically and and In this season of the the virus with kovat 19 we we got to the point of of Opening our church having determined that the virus itself was not severe enough to warrant fundamentally altering the way that we worship and and initially we were open and and just doing life as usual and not receiving a lot of attention but and and not having kovat 19 cases in our church and then in November There was a second declared public health emergency and that really upped the ante as far as the attention

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That we were receiving from AHS, which is our Health Services Department as well as the media and and so into December things began to heat up where media is just outside our church and and videoing what's happening in our parking lot as people go into the church and AHS is coming to our services with the

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RCMP, which is our police service in our region of this province and and so we've got the

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RCMP and AHS in our building for our services to basically see what's taking place and gather evidence that's gonna be used against us and and you know, we

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Did our best efforts to honor the RCMP as they came into our facility? and so we would actually stand and applaud them for their their services to our

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Our community and We realized that they've got a tough job to do

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Even though what they're doing right now and my estimation is outside the scope of what they ought to be doing They shouldn't really be enforcing health orders it should be

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Enforcing against crime but anyway things just slowly escalated and and Did to the point where on February 17th or rather starting

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February 7th, I was given an undertaking I was arrested with an undertaking and That that undertaking built into it had a condition that I comply with the

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Public Health Act Which meant that I would have to comply with all the public health orders and I indicated that that at that time

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I could not agree to that condition and And they said that's fine you can refuse the condition but it's still going to be in force and So when we met on the 14th

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The next Sunday I was in violation of that condition. And so I I drove myself into the

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RCMP on Tuesday following that Sunday was was arrested detained and brought before a justice of the peace and Did you know

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James as you drove yourself to the RCMP did you know that was gonna mean your arrest?

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yeah, I knew I was gonna be arrested and You know, there was reason to believe that I would be released but part of the reason that I was given that impression is because Typically when you're given a bail condition you sign it so the the the officer that I was engaged with didn't really have a

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Category for not signing your bail condition. So he believed that was going to be going home that day with a bail condition and So when

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I brought was brought before the justice of the peace I was not going to be Taken to remand.

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He didn't think that the the violation on The 14th warranted me being imprisoned

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But he gave me a condition That required that I agreed to abide by the

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Public Health Act now There's two things with that one if I agree to that condition Functionally, I can't

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I can't carry out my ministry as I believe the Lord would have me do right? So I'm I'm basically

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Handing the keys over to Caesar and letting Caesar dictate the terms of worship to us

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So there's that piece The second piece is if I sign the condition and then just you know decide

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I'm gonna willfully violate that condition the the legal issues that you step into at that point in time are are are exponentially greater because I Mean you're taking the criminal side of it to a whole new level at that point in time by breaching your bail condition

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So, I mean, it's an integrity issue on the one hand I mean, are you gonna sign a condition and then go and violate it?

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That's that's that's inappropriate all on its own but even to do that is just Increasing the the weight of the law against you.

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So, excuse me So yeah, I I couldn't sign that condition and and that meant that I was gonna end up at remand

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And so that's where I was for 35 days. I was in jail for 35 days at remand. Yeah Wow Well James So many of us have watched you and in your family through this and I had the opportunity to interview your wife

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Erin While you were in in prison and and I you and I talked a little bit for a few minutes before this interview started

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And so you've heard me say this already, but for those watching Erin Has just been amazing through this.

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I was so impressed in Watching a couple of interviews that she did with others and then when

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I interviewed her her poise the depth of understanding of the issue her

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Focus on scripture and the authority of scripture and the importance of your role as a shepherd and Brother, what what a wife

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God has given you. I mean she is just she was so very Very impressive and then how she handled all this

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Do you have anything to add to that? I'm sure you do. I mean,

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I would just say she is the real deal and huge a huge blessing in my life next to my salvation the greatest gift my my greatest earthly treasure and Yeah, I mean she she's the real deal and she she gets it and and there's times when she'll even

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Address the matter and and say it better than I do and and so she's yeah, she's a phenomenal woman

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I love her dearly and Couldn't have asked for a better Wife to be with me in ministry.

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I mean God had a plan when he put us together and so yeah, just richly blessed

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Yeah It's it's amazing. Oh I can't even imagine what what you have been through as a family and and I kind of hesitate to To ask this question because I see like when you see something on the news

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Someone's been through a tragedy and the reporter always asked well, well, how are you feeling and you think well

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Well, how do you think they're feeling? It's not fun. So at risk of asking one of those questions obviously, this has been an extreme trial and continues to be for y 'all but What has this been like for you personally for Aaron for your family

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Give us it. Can you give us a sense of some of the emotions and things that you've experienced through all this?

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yeah, and it's difficult to even try and Summarize that and and to do so in a way that would be helpful even to your audience

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We're living this and so we're this is this is life and It's not glamorous

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To be sure it's difficult. It's challenging. God's grace is with us

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Power is perfected and weakness. And so his grace is sufficient and So this is just life for us.

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It's it's it's where the Lord has us We've been through seasons that are challenging in ministry.

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And so we know what it's like to suffer for the sake of biblical ministry and and now this is certainly on a new level and a new scale and different context than we've ever experienced, but And it's been something that's progressed right?

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Like we it just didn't arrive There's been a we're in a season and this season has been progressing over time.

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So we've had time to acclimate to each step along the way and and to Prepare even for my imprisonment.

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I mean we we knew that that was a possibility and and so we're having Discussions and even to some extent, you know utilizing humor to to address the reality that imprisonment is on the horizon and I Mean because if you're gonna purchase something, you know, one of the questions you're gonna have is well

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Am I even gonna be able to utilize this if I'm in prison, for example you know and and so there's a little bit of levity that you would employ to Sort of digest the reality of what's taking place

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Right, and so, you know, I think along the way in preparation for me

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I had to basically have moments where I'm brought to a fork in the road and having to look at the the reality of enforcement and consequences and Having to decide am

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I gonna follow Christ am I gonna be willing to submit myself to the cost and there's all kinds of turmoil all the things you would expect to experience are there in those moments the

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Stress of them the anxiety of them. I mean, I remember for example On a particular

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Saturday when I had asked my lawyer You know, what are the odds?

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You know what it was it was after But middle of January we were taken to court and given a court order to abide by the the health guidelines and We opted to continue to gather and that would have put us in contempt of court and contempt of court in Alberta comes with a a

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Consequence of up to two years in prison and so you know and then as I'm parsing it all out and Even as a leadership we had to decide what we were gonna do as I parse that all that I go.

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Well, I mean What are the odds they're gonna actually put me in prison? I mean,

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I'm a pastor, you know So there's gonna be a consequence, but surely they're not gonna put me in prison.

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Well on that Saturday Right about noon. I speak with my lawyer and I just I asked the question

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So, what are the odds that we're actually gonna see I'm gonna see jail time for this and he was like well pretty likely and and I said

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Okay, he's like yeah, you're not gonna likely see two years, but you know a couple of months and And so that that that comes with a blow, you know

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Yeah, and so that day You know after that phone call

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I'm Bearing the weight of the reality of possible jail time for simply having a church service

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Right and and and so there, you know You're feeling all of the things you would expect to feel in that moment fear anxiety pressure stress.

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There's physiological effects, you know from you know headaches to the everything that you experience when you're under that kind of pressure and And the

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Lord just ministers to you in the midst of that and he carries you through that and you digest it and then you

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Come to the place with okay Lord. If this is what you want me to do, I'm gonna do it And so you have all of these moments like that along the way so that you're you're being prepared

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Yeah, or you know the the consequences that are gonna come and and then by the time it is time to decide between whether you're gonna

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You know choose your comforts or end up in prison you've kind of already settled it and and you know

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You're going to jail. So Well, so yeah,

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I mean it's it's been it's been a whirlwind for sure and it's not over so yeah

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Was there ever a time? I'm sure the temptation had to be there. But how how how severe was the temptation?

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how much of a temptation was it to say when the reality of Prison was sitting setting in with you.

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How much was the temptation to say, you know Let's just do it. Like other churches are doing it.

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We'll we'll we'll do zoom meetings like you and I are doing now Well, you know, we don't like it.

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We don't agree with it. But let's let's go along Let's let's bow to Caesar and let him have his way for this season and then we'll get back to it later

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How much of a temptation was that for you? You know, it's not a great Temptation.

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I mean, there's no question that you you as You there's a part of you that wants to avoid suffering.

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I mean You know, even if you think about our Lord in the garden He's asking is there another way and and even this morning as I'm with the

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Lord and praying and and and just feeling the Context that we're currently in I'm asking the same question.

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Is there another way to be faithful and And and not and not go through what we're going through so there's no question that you're asking that question and and But it doesn't it's not it's not a big temptation

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Because it doesn't take long for you to go. I can't There's this compulsion within that just you can't

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I Can't it's a conviction that just won't go away it is it is settled and so you know you you ask the question and you you you look down that road and and and but it doesn't take long for You to go.

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Yeah, I can't do that yeah, and and then and that's where you your resolve begins to build and that's where you you you know, you you

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Plant your your your flag and and and you park your car and you just don't move.

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Yeah Yeah, amen Well, you and I were talking just before the interview started and I said that there will be no doubt with your kids that their dad believes

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What he professes from the pulpit that he believes that it's not just Lip service.

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It's not just a performance on Sunday morning. I mean you have fleshed that out There will be no doubt your kids know that you believe what you say you believe

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Well, and you know what like that's a huge. That's a huge piece. So I've preached Daniel 3

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You know, I've preached on the the cost of following Christ and and when you're in a season like this

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You're gonna make Portions of scripture portions of scripture as a preacher you can't go to Right reach them with passion and no one's gonna listen to you because you you are not willing to Take a stand for Christ and and so that's a huge thing.

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I mean as a preacher I Don't want to come to texts that that require

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Thunder from heaven on the need to be resolved to obey Christ That I can't even preach them because I was unwilling

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To obey him as it relates to his headship over the church. I mean, this is critical

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Right, who is the head of the church? and So yeah,

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I mean that's significant. I I I there's an Internal joy and blessing that is there right now even in this moment because I know

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Give me a portion of scripture to preach and I can preach it and And as a preacher you you you want that and and so praise

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God for that I just give him thanks and praise that that I don't need to avoid portions of scripture and And so I don't know what to do with these other guys who are complying

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You know, I don't know how they Do they ever preach Daniel 3, you know, do they do they ever preach

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Daniel 6, which is even more fitting Yeah, um, I don't know. I don't know what they do.

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Yeah, exactly Brother, I've told people often in my own teaching. There's Obedience is in and of itself its own reward

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Hmm cause we know we are when we are obedient to Christ We are pleasing

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Christ and whether or not we see tangible benefits tangible rewards for that whether or not we see it

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Sometimes we do sometimes we don't But knowing that we are pleasing Christ that is the reward and And you have the blessing of having a clear conscience

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I so appreciate what you just said you can you can go to any text and Preach it with a clear conscience and there's no value that you can put on that Amen.

20:56

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah James talk to us a little bit about what you experienced on the inside Hmm What did you have with you did did you have a

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Bible what what did you do what was a typical day like for you one of the challenges in prison is you know, if you think about being in your home, you've got a

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Chair and a desk that you you typically like to work at if there's a place that you want to relax for a bit

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You've got a seat or a chair in the home a couch That you like to sit on that you can you can enjoy and and so you got a picture yourself in a cell with a bed that Isn't the most comfortable bed and and basically one one kind of really hard sort of bench that that you can sit at with a table that you can use a little tiny table and And that's about the extent of it so you can either stand

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You can lie down on your bed, or you can kind of sit on this pretty hard bench and You're in your cell quite a bit.

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I mean Once out of the quarantine, I was basically out of my cell for about three hours a day

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So that means for 21 hours. You're you're in your cell You know, so one of the challenges as I reflect on it is just is just being comfortable, you know in the time that you're in your cell and What's really interesting is the guys that are that are often in prison are very

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Industrial so they cut they've they got all these ways to kind of make the cell more

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Accommodating more comfortable than it would be otherwise and so the guy that I was with he he made like a seat cushion for me so that I could sit on this really hard, you know bench and And be and be comfortable because I spent a lot of time on that little seat there.

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Yeah, and Yeah, so I mean it's it's it's hard on the body and And and my body's actually

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I'm in a place in my life where I was an athlete early on and for a long time now

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I've been kind of You know, I've been a little bit athletic with some of the stuff that I do but I might

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I'm losing lots of muscle and and And I'm experiencing all kinds of pain in my body

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In my hips for example And and it's I think it's just the I need to go to the gym and I need to work out and and so But yeah being in prison is is hard in the body

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So you're you're feeling it in in in different ways and and I started to do some exercises while I was in there

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That was to kind of mitigate that and it was actually helpful You know that the food component is a challenge because what they provide is not really enough to sustain you

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I mean I'm probably like a 2 ,000 to 2 ,500 calories a day kind of a guy and I think with the food that they provide you you might get like I Don't know 12 to 1 ,500 calories.

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And so then you gotta you gotta make up The calories through what they call canteen so you buy canteen from the store basically and that gets delivered once a week

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But even then it's it's trying to figure out like how are you gonna make up the difference? What are you gonna do?

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You can eat Doritos, you know all day or or and I I it took me a little bit to kind of figure out how to Use the canteen to not take its toll on my body as well

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And so it's a lot of peanuts and almonds and stuff like that to try and make up the difference and So, yeah that the food components a challenge

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And you know in in any given day you're up and down depending on what's going on I could receive all these letters on on a day and and that would provide a couple of hours of Encouragement and joy and blessing and would really put fuel in you to persevere and then you could get information either from the radio that was coming into your cell because you can listen to talk radio and it's left -wing so it's it's not for you at all and And so you're that's coming in so you're you're you're dealing with that and and so yeah

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It's just up and down very up and down. I didn't know that I would ever get out of there to be honest with you

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I didn't I just didn't know that that I would ever get out and I was in there knowing that that was a possibility and Because you know while I'm in there for why

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I'm in there everything on the outside is escalating I mean the government is just doubling down and tripling down on you know their enforcement and Restrictions and guidelines and so I just didn't have any

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Confidence that I was gonna be able to get out and it's amazing to you like just so you know Like I literally could have you know walked to the the desk where the guards were on any day at really any moment and just said

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I'd like to sign my condition and that would have begun the process of getting out like I Literally and you're in your cell so you can call down I could have just used the

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Telecom and said guys I want to sign my condition and that would just start the process I would have been out, you know later that day or the following day

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And that wasn't that wasn't a real temptation either to be honest with you It it really wasn't

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I you know, I had moments I had a phone call with with a number of the guys in our leadership on a

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Sunday morning I called Aaron on a Sunday morning and they're they're gathered at the church and and and I ended up talking on speakerphone to a number of the guys and I was

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I remember a Sunday pretty late in me before weeks in where I was just kind of you know, a little bit down and and wanting out and But even then it's not like I'm tempted to go in and and sign the condition

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I think I said at one point if I was ever feeling tempted to do that now's the time but it wasn't a real temptation

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But yeah, I could just literally ask them Let them know I'm ready and and they would have done the paperwork and I would have been out of there.

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So But yeah, I mean you're just you're just trying to you're just trying to plow through each day and and and you know,

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I I like getting to bedtime for whatever reason and And you go to bed and you wake up in the morning and you do it all over again, so yeah, yeah

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Wow well, I'll tell you brother a pastor in your situation that is was not committed to Sufficiency of Scripture, of course, he wouldn't have been in there in the first place, but just for I mean theoretically

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You know a pastor that has been blown about by say like the winds of social justice or you know

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Social gospel or something he would have he would have been pushing that intercom button in a heartbeat

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Yeah, never would have gotten there never would have gotten there, right? But let's let's say he was just for argument's sake

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I mean he'd have been that button would have been worn out from him pushing it. Yeah What about because this is a question

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I've had and I've thought about You're a pastor. You're a shepherd and of course you were away from your flock and not that you have a flock in prison because you know a flock is by definition a church is by definition those who have been

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Called out and saved and the assumption is is that Most of the guys in prison are not regenerate.

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I know salvation does happen in prison, but most of them are not You know, they're not regenerate when they come in.

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So what kind of Ministry to use that term opportunities. Did you have?

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with the men That you were were with did you have witnessing opportunities with some of those guys?

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What was what was that like? Yeah, so I mean the guy one thing you have to know and this is somewhat surprising is that more guys

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In prison believe they're Christians than you would think. Yeah Yeah, so so in some cases

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You're you're almost trying to get them unsaved. All right, you get them saved, you know, right and and there was quite a bit of that for sure, but And and that even in some ways, you know applied to my

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My my cellmate like I I challenged him a little bit because he believes he's a Christian and and you know

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I I didn't want to pass judgment on the man, but I was I was I could hear him speak and And I was saying like, you know

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I think I think we need to evaluate whether or not you've truly been born from above like I I'm not

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I'm not denying that You have positive sentiment toward Jesus, but but I'm not totally convinced you know the

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Lord and And he was open to that. He didn't take that with offense and and I had time to You know spend with him reading the scriptures with him and and and talking to him just as an aside.

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I Read him Daniel 3 just a straight reading and I just read it to him and when it was all said and done

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He's just like man. That sounds a lot like what you're going through just a straight read

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I didn't you know and Anyway, so so I had lots of opportunity with him

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Guys would just come to my door. I'd be in my cell and they'd be on exercise Because there's there's three tiers and so there's a tier on exercise at any given time unless we're all in our our cells for for food and to eat and and so guys would just come to our door and they'd knock on the door and they'd be like are you the pastor and I Yeah, I'm the pastor and and I'd I'd just be talking to them through the door and Which is really amazing just as an aside

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Let's say hypothetically you want Hot water and you're in your cell and another guy is on Exercise, they've got a way to pour hot water

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Through the door to a guy in his cell so you can get the hot water. He needs to have a coffee

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I mean just just very industrious guys the way they they do stuff So anyway, lots of opportunities like that where guys would come and I would be basically ministering to them through the door on my my tear it got to the point where we were doing

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Bible study in the evening and I was basically just in John and John 1 on who

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Christ is and always taking it back to the gospel John 3 and the new birth

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John 10 and and just getting into The gospel and regeneration and and answering questions they had and so and and that was really interesting because I would just Go and sit down open my

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Bible and guys would come to me There was one gentleman in particular that said hey

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Can we do a Bible study and and? We couldn't really do it like in in the cell because you're not supposed to be in somebody else's cell

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So we had to go down to the floor and so he and I sit down I open my Bible and then three or four the guys come within a minute to sit down and Well, so there's no question there there's a desire for that that there's a there's an appetite for it and And so I had

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I had moments like that. I'd go You know to to speak to somebody else in a in a cell and on the way by guys are banging on their door

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And want me to pray for them You know and a lot of time it was just like pray for their bail

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Hearing and and so they just want me to ask the Lord to grant their bail basically and yeah, but you know,

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I I would I'd get their name and translate that into opportunities to pray for their salvation and and so there was lots of Moments like that.

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I couldn't talk to the guards a whole lot There were some guys that I got a bit of a rapport with but you know

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You couldn't really have a long extended discussion with the guard effectively

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They there's just a distance that's kept between them and the inmates And so I didn't really get a lot of opportunity to share the gospel with the guards

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But but they all knew who I was, you know like you think about Paul and the Praetorian Guard it didn't take long for the whole

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Praetorian Guard to know who I was and why I was there and I'll tell you this one story.

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I Come in to my first cell entering into quarantine So I'm just like I'm a newbie and I'm with three other guys

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Are two other guys rather there's three of us and and the guy says the guard says great

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Three fresh criminals off the street and and and that's the kind of he's being you know facetious sarcastic and right and I'm hearing this as a pastor who's not coming off the street who's coming out of his church, right and So I ended up going to him and and at one point just saying to him.

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Hey, do you know why I'm here? and and that would be a an unusual question to ask because You could get like a negative response like, you know

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What are you even talking to me for go back to your cell? He could say right and I just asked him if he knew why

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I was there and and he said no and I told him I'm here for breaking the

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Public Health Act as a pastor and hosting services and He looked the file so he could see that that was true

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And I forget exactly what was said at that point beyond that but I end up back in my cell and not long from there

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He goes a coats and I'm like, yeah, he's he's speaking to me through my telecom and he says you want some paper and a pen and I was just like yeah sure and he's just like Bunyan did his best work in prison.

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So I figured you could use a paper and a pen and and that was like, you know day one or day two and And so that was like a little bit of a moment where you could see how

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The guards were gonna relate to me in a positive way and he's thinking, you know I'm gonna give this guy some paper and a pen and he's gonna write, you know

35:43

Pilgrim's Progress number two So this he knew he knew

35:48

John Bunyan was yeah Well, and there's a number of the guards would claim to be

35:54

Christian in fact the guards at times would feel like they had to apologize to me because I My presence there was convicting them in terms of how they spoke to the other inmates and so when we would have like they've come into your cell and do like a

36:10

Survey of your cell and just see what's going on in your cell that everything's okay and so there'd be interaction that would happen briefly there and some guys would apologize because they'd be trying to say, you know, we've got to talk to the inmates the way we do because You know, we've got to make sure they understand who's boss and that kind of a thing and which

36:28

I understand but you could tell it There's some conviction there. Yeah, and But yeah, a lot of the guys a lot of the guards would claim to be

36:38

Christian to be honest Huh? Yeah. Yeah, I was just saying I mean a lot of people

36:44

Claim to be Christian. I suppose most people still in at least in the United States and Canada claim to be

36:49

Christian But not many of them would know who John Bunyan is Yeah, no this guy he did he knew oh, how about that Wow were the guys were the inmates

37:02

Sorry to see you leave yeah, you know, I was getting a lot of publicity because There's a radio station called

37:12

Chet. It's talk radio and on that radio station every 30 minutes They have a news loop and I was in that news loop an awful lot.

37:21

In fact when I was in the cop car Going to the courthouse the day that I was going to remand and then to the remand

37:29

Center I could hear the the radio in the cop car talking about me and the fact that I was going to prison and and so there was lots of Media attention that way and so and leading up to my release.

37:45

There was lots of Media attention around the court case and what was happening and and everything like that.

37:52

So by the time I had received Release from the judge in my own bail hearing it didn't take long for that to end up on the radio

38:03

And that's getting played into the the cells on my pod so Everyone knew when

38:10

I was going to be going that I was going to be going and I remember at one point for example

38:16

The chaplain came to visit me and I had already been told that I was gonna be

38:22

I had to get my stuff ready Because I was gonna be leaving so the judge has said you're gonna you know, the release is happening

38:29

I'm now back in my cell the guards have said pack your stuff You're gonna be leaving this afternoon and then a chaplain comes and I'm like,

38:36

I'm wondering do I bring my bag with me? He just wants to spend some time with me But I'm like do I have my bag with me or not?

38:42

so I grabbed my bag and there was one guy that I really wanted to connect with in the event that I was gonna leave the pod and And I just wanted to just express

38:54

Words of affection for him and that I'm gonna be praying for him For whatever reason the

38:59

Lord just kind of put him on my heart early on I was able to develop a relationship with him. He was one of the guys that was a part of the

39:05

Bible study and And just had a heart for him. So So I have my bag and he's on my tear and I just run over to his door to basically try and say a

39:15

Last word in the event that I end up leaving While I'm with the chaplain and and at that point in time already the doors are beginning to like bang because they think

39:25

I'm leaving like the the guys that are seeing me with my bag and And out of my cell that they're already starting to bang their doors because they think that this is it now at that point

39:36

The guard said you can put your bag away. You're not going anywhere So I put my bag away, but that was like a little bit of a foretaste of what would happen so I went down and I'm with the

39:47

Chaplain and he and I are talking and and and while we're talking they're going like coats. This is it you're going so so he prays for me and and then

39:56

I run upstairs to grab my bag and and then I come down with my bag and I'm saying goodbye to the guys on my tear who are on exercise at that point and And all and the door is they're banging and so I turn around just at the exit of the pod and I wave and The place just begins to shake that just just begins to shake as guys in their cells are banging on their doors and It was really it was a moment.

40:23

I looked over at the guards and I could see on their face. They were affected by it.

40:29

Like this was a moment that we were all witnessing and And so they were impacted by even the chaplain who witnessed it emailed me after the fact and just said that He'll never forget that moment it was it was a moment and Yeah, and so that was kind of a sweet moment right before Some really unsweet moments because from that point on getting out of the pod and exiting the building

40:58

It's a pretty dehumanizing experience you're you're treated like property and Yeah, it's hard to go into detail on all of that but it's just you know until you get out it's

41:18

It's it's just an it's an unsavory experience and I remember That day getting out and in the moment that my family and I reconnected

41:27

That's on video for folks to be able to see and witness and that was a real and raw moment Yeah, and we got in the car and we're driving home and we're getting onto the highway to head home

41:39

And I just began to weep and I couldn't even tell you why I don't to this day I don't know and it's not joy.

41:46

It was it was a grief Yeah, but I just began to weep over The world that I just witnessed for 35 days and was now

41:59

Yeah, and even now I mean I I The effect of being in jail seems to have gone away like I it seems like a long time ago

42:08

And so life's back to normal. I don't think that being in jail has scarred me or anything like that But But you're exposed to a world a system

42:20

That is ugly when you are in prison and It's even a bit of a scary system and and Because I mean you're seeing you're seeing the legal system and and and how it can be corrupt at times how it can be unjust you're

42:43

Even just like the way that that Alberta Health Services, which is our

42:49

Health Service Department Administers medication to the inmates on the inside.

42:56

I mean that in and of itself is really so so guys basically come

43:03

Off the street and and they're they're in the remand center and you know, they could be heroin addicts and and so What what

43:16

HS does is to help these guys to detox They can sign up for basically what amounts to government regulated heroin and and so basically, you know throughout the day multiple times a day guys are called to get their meds and And they get into a line and they're basically administered

43:41

Government Regulated heroin it doesn't like it doesn't yeah, it doesn't make them like high where If they use it properly, it doesn't make them high where you know

43:54

They're like on the floor like you would imagine someone after they've just injected heroin into their body.

44:00

Yeah But but it that that opens up a whole side of corruption within the jail that I won't even get into right now as well so you're just exposed to an ugly system and And and so to get to get to get out of that There was just there was some grief.

44:22

It was a bit of an adjustment, but I You know, I I kind of feel like in that sense

44:28

You know things have returned to normal internally for me having gone through that and experienced that right, right?

44:37

James tells um, I have two things. I want to ask you but For those of you for those watching you don't know how many children do you have tell us a little bit more about your family?

44:48

your wife Aaron and Yeah, I've got two boys. The oldest is 18.

44:54

The youngest is 11. Yeah, and You know, they're they're doing well,

45:00

I mean they both responded to me being imprisoned differently and I Think you know, it's hard to remember right now.

45:09

I think I Think my youngest if I remember correctly struggled initially, but then

45:19

You know was able to kind of Get to a place where he was coping Well, and then the oldest was the opposite where I think he was okay initially, but as time went on it got harder it was either that way or the reverse but yeah, you know they

45:37

They they've done. Well, I mean I think I think from the outside and this is difficult like from the outside looking in like for yourself and for your

45:47

Audience as they look in on going through something like this It's it's it's hard for me to impart to you all

45:56

What it what it's really like, I mean I can say stuff like well, it's not glamorous which nobody would question but it's your it's just life like you're just going through life and and you're suffering for Christ and and It's it's just your lot and and so for for people on the outside looking in it's it's this

46:19

I Wouldn't even know how to describe what it's what it's like But but to try and convey to you reality as it is for us as we're living it

46:28

It's just life or just you know, the the Sun rises and Sun sets and you're just going day by day through Through this experience.

46:36

And so yeah, they've they've done really well. I Think I think it's it's it's been beneficial for both of them spiritually

46:46

You know, our oldest is is walking with the Lord. He's he's obeyed the the

46:52

Lord in baptism and and he's He's he's bearing fruit, which is wonderful.

46:57

My youngest is Is in a place where like he wants to follow

47:03

Christ his desire is to follow Christ, but he's he's he's just wrestling with the new birth and and and obviously, he can't

47:14

He can't bring the new birth about right, but he's he's called to believe on Christ And so he's you know, we're not totally sure where he's at But he's in a

47:26

I think a healthy place for an 11 year old yes, who's wrestling with with what it means to to believe on Christ and Yeah, so they're they're doing well,

47:36

I don't think either of them have been scarred by this at all like I don't think either of them are are

47:45

Experiencing things in their life that are gonna have a negative impact on them at all I think you know, this season is stressful for all of us

47:53

I mean, you know talking about kovat 19 and government restrictions and all of that.

47:58

It's talked about a lot and And so that there's a there's a tension or a stress

48:04

I'm sure they experience inside because life is just tumultuous right now

48:10

But but I think they're both doing well, ultimately Good. Well, as I said, those boys will be able to you know, as they grow up They'll they'll be able to say mom and dad believed what they professed.

48:22

Hmm So what a tremendous blessing that is yeah Okay, so Another thing

48:32

I wanted to ask you about is I Don't know if it was the Sunday after or maybe two

48:38

Sundays after your release But I've seen the video of where y 'all were having service this was before they put the fences up and I want to ask you about that too, but The police were out there with the health official

48:53

I don't remember his exact title and and they wanted to come into the service. The service was already in progress and your elders

49:01

Prevented them from coming in because of this Canadian the law that Canada has

49:07

I don't remember the address of it but you cannot interrupt a worship service that is in progress and so Kathy and I were talking about this

49:15

Kathy and I've talked about y 'all so much but We were both really encouraged by how your elders

49:24

Handled that situation They were respectful They did not berate them and there's another pastor in Canada that has also been

49:36

Arrested and I'm not gonna even go into but I'll just say this what a stark contrast between How grace life and your elders handled the police and how this other

49:49

Canadian pastor has Handled the police berating them and calling them

49:54

Nazis and all that I was really impressed with your elders and How they handled that they were respectful and yet firm.

50:04

No, this is the law so Tell us a little bit. What are your what are your thoughts on that? I know you've seen the video.

50:10

Yeah No, I think they did a phenomenal job now. I should clarify There were two gentlemen there one is an elder in training.

50:17

The other is a deacon. Oh and and but yeah, they did they did

50:22

Incredibly well that that required courage. I mean you can hear it when the conversation begins

50:31

Just in the sound of the voice as they assert section 176 of the criminal code that this is like hard You know and and that's what courage is like courage is courage in the face of fear and so there was fear in their hearts, but it was the courage that like plowed over that fear and Yeah, and yeah the way that they handled it is consistent with the way that we've handled everything.

50:55

That's that's we that's our we believe that's that's Christ likeness on display and and so we need to be firm and Yet respectful and so Yeah, I really appreciate the way that they've handled things and and and and think that that we've we've done

51:16

Well as a church to handle what we've gone through. I think it's garnered respect from the

51:21

RCMP and Even in some respects from AHS And so, yeah,

51:29

I Prefer the way that we've handled things for sure over and against the way Pastor Art has

51:35

You know Pastor Art's coming from a certain Political context that he's he's grown up in and that that that likely shapes the way he handles things

51:46

I don't know Pastor Art personally and and appreciate the way that you've

51:53

Just been sensitive about about even just using that as a contrast

51:59

I wouldn't do it the way Pastor Art has and But but I don't want to condemn the way he's done it per se either

52:09

I think that that's between him and the Lord at this point, but But it's not the way that we want to do it and and we like the way that we've done it

52:19

And and that's the way we we plan to continue to carry things out for sure. Yeah You know, we're to pray for those and in governing authorities

52:28

Or as governing authorities and even when we disagree with them we're to pray for them and Show them respect

52:38

So I think y 'all I just want to commend you I think you and the leadership there at Grace Life Have handled that as well as it could be handled and I think it's just a really good testimony for a watching world

52:50

So I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you So James, where where do things stand now?

52:56

Okay, so we've all seen that they put up the Defense I think was double or triple layered even that but so you're not in your building

53:07

Tell us where things stand Right now. Yeah, so wait right now

53:14

We're working on an injunction that we plan to file That will endeavor to get our building back

53:23

And we think that based on the legal sort of Assessment of things that that's that's a reasonable possibility that that we can win an injunction on this thing

53:38

So we don't have access to our building and and we're we're continuing to meet and we're doing that at at undisclosed locations and And you know, it's it's going

53:53

It's going reasonably well The the possibility of enforcement is is is still there

54:02

So the the possibility of me heading back to the remand center is certainly there

54:09

You know in the case of Pastor Art He was released on a condition very similar to the one that I wasn't willing to sign, you know in the case of Pastor Art He was released on a condition very similar to the one that I wasn't willing to sign and Which for me signals that So right now for example, the condition that I got is part of what's being assessed in my own personal trial

54:42

I was in court last week for two days and one of the one of the matters the judge needs to rule on is

54:49

Whether or not my rights to liberty and security were violated through wrongful imprisonment through a condition that pinned both my

55:00

Religious freedom which is a charter right as well as conscience against my liberty where I was basically having to choose

55:08

You know whether I was gonna pick liberty over conscience or vice versa. So there's a possibility that The judge may actually grant a stay to the proceedings on the basis of of that and and then that would really

55:23

Rule out using a condition like that as a bail condition for a pastor going forward.

55:30

There'd be precedent against that. So with With Art receiving the condition that he did

55:37

It signaled to me at least at this at this point that that there's no hesitation on Giving a condition like the one that I got to me again and And so that just kind of elevates all over again, you know the possibility of being back in that at that fork in the road of I'm arrested for having a gathering and And the condition of my release is

56:06

I've got to abide by the public health orders. And so I'm back at remand. So So that's that's the reality of that is is present even even today and and so, you know, it's amazing right because you have a gathering and you get home and you're kind of like phew, you know and and there's like a season of time on Sunday where you're you're

56:32

You're feeling relief and then sometime on Monday and certainly by Tuesday. You're now looking at the next

56:37

Sunday And am I gonna be able to survive this one? right So so yeah, our building is is locked up.

56:46

We don't have access to it. We're gonna try and get access to it again and Don't know if we'll ever get access to it now we're going through all these other issues because our insurance company's gonna drop insurance on our building and and and then even our lender on our mortgage they've been supportive of how we've handled things but But without the insurance component being there, they're not happy with that arrangement and so We need insurance on our building or it's possible.

57:16

Our lender is gonna call in the loan on Our mortgage and so there's there's there's all that kind of stuff going on It's kind of a relentless thing.

57:26

I mean, you know from from week to week. There's something new that materializes and all of this and just you know puts us in some awkward positions, but you know, all you can do is just swallow the pill and trust the

57:40

Lord and keep going and So, so yeah, we're gathering and and and meeting and there's not

57:48

I don't know if there's much more To to report on that. I will say this that that we have

57:55

Access to transcripts from the legislature where where they've

58:01

They've been discussing grace life and even what's currently happening with our facility and the fencing and and the security and everything like that and They may actually try and bill us for all of that.

58:13

They they may attempt to give us a bill for all the fencing and and the cost of security though all of the costs associated with them taking over our facility they may give us a bill for that and Word, which is amazing, right because like they could have just locked our doors

58:36

Yeah, they didn't need to put up, you know fencing and all the rest of it.

58:42

And so, you know, it's overkill Yeah overkill on what and and then and even it would almost seem like it's somewhat

58:52

Symbolic like they're like somehow our government just wants to kind of condition

59:02

Our province and country for like a police state, you know what I mean? Like what they've done there it's

59:10

Yeah, you know who wrote the playbook on that. Where does that come from? Right and Did it come from China?

59:18

I mean, you know, it's it's really that the approach they took in securing our building the way they did is unusual and And so, you know to give us a bill

59:30

For all of that when you could have just locked the building is is is so we'll see

59:37

You know how that all unfolds But this is the country we're living in right now. Yeah, I mean really

59:43

I Would say for Canadians this is the time to consider leaving

59:49

Canada I think I think we're there and and I don't know where to go I mean there are places in the u .s.

59:56

That that that would be at least temporarily better Then but when

01:00:02

I look at what's going on there in your country The the shift is definitely on.

01:00:08

Oh, yeah you know, I think your Constitution and the way that states function as as being more independent and autonomous is really helpful

01:00:19

So there there are states that that would seem to provide a healthier place to raise a family and all of that but right, yeah,

01:00:28

I would say it's it would Canadians need to consider whether they want to live in this country at this point in time.

01:00:35

And so either Canadians are asleep and don't realize what's going on or or it's time to actually think about leaving.

01:00:43

Yeah, I wouldn't leave You know at this point I I can't leave at this point because I'd be leaving the flock

01:00:50

But if the if the flock we all decided what we're gonna move to wherever You know,

01:00:57

I could see something like that potentially Although I don't envision that happening.

01:01:02

Yeah. Yeah, it seems like the United States is it follows Socially and culturally it follows

01:01:10

Canada 10 -15 years, you know, we're behind y 'all 10 -15 years But I don't know it's it's happening here at a breathtaking pace

01:01:19

I mean none of us would have thought two years ago that we would be where we are now

01:01:24

Yeah, so we I told Kathy the other night We really no longer live in a free country.

01:01:31

We we used to But it's it's it's eroding here as well.

01:01:37

Mm -hmm But we're not where Kennedy is at least not yet. No So so y 'all are not out of the woods

01:01:44

I mean, I think a lot and this is one of the reasons I wanted to do the interview one of them is I think a lot of people thought oh, well, he's out now and it's kind of it's kind of over but it's it's not over You're not out of the woods yet No No, I mean

01:01:59

I knew that that that sunk in that first Sunday that you mentioned because For five weeks while I was in remand, they didn't try and come in and And they tried to come in that Sunday and I was told right before the service began

01:02:15

That that the RCMP and H has won in and and so I had a moment by myself in The area that we pray just off the stage in a little mechanical room

01:02:29

Where I'm just having a digest Everything that I've just experienced I mean, this is my first Sunday back

01:02:36

Yeah, and and the fact that they want back in now that I'm out after being on the outside for five weeks, right?

01:02:43

you know, I it was a lot for me to just kind of get my mind, right and I'm about to Speak to my congregation publicly for the first time since my imprisonment and so there's things that I I need to say to them and And so that was um, that was really unfortunate and and we pressed them actually on a subsequent

01:03:05

Sunday on Hey, why did you guys? Try and come in after not coming in for five weeks and and we pressed this gentleman and he ultimately said

01:03:15

You know, it's my supervisors. So they're just they're robots it's it's their supervisors who are telling them what to do and when to do it and and they're just following orders and And it's uh, it's just an awful awful

01:03:30

Government agency, I mean AHS is horrible. Yeah, it it

01:03:38

Really it we need to abolish AHS, you know to think of the the language that you know

01:03:46

That you hear coming from the social justice warriors in in the u .s

01:03:51

Against agencies that are actually lawful and necessary We need to abolish

01:03:58

AHS. It is just an awful awful organization and Never would have thought that You know as things

01:04:09

Heated up in our country that it would come through the Health Service Department I mean, it's genius, but never saw that coming never saw that coming and anyway, so So yeah, so I knew we were right back in the midst of it right then and it was tough

01:04:28

Actually, that was a tough week for me Because I had to basically get back into the frame of mind that I was in Prior to my imprisonment and and it wasn't just easy.

01:04:36

It wasn't just like okay. Well, let's just do this again I had to kind of start all over again. I mean that was the whole thing about being in prison

01:04:44

It was reprieve. I mean while I was in prison I couldn't break the so -called law that I had been breaking this whole

01:04:52

Public Health Act thing. Yeah, so By being in prison. I was actually some in some ways safe Yeah, so to come out and now

01:05:01

I'm I'm back in the the driver's seat of this obligation that I have to my

01:05:07

Lord and Savior to To to bring the the body of Christ together for worship.

01:05:12

Well now I'm back in that that Pressure cooker of pressure where you know,

01:05:19

I've got the law breathing down my neck this unjust law and and so yeah, so it was it wasn't over and Isn't over and there's no end in sight.

01:05:32

I mean there just is no end in sight. I don't know and That's what

01:05:37

I've been praying. I've been saying Lord like what's the end point to all of this? I mean, we can't stay in this state of flux forever.

01:05:44

We've got to get to the be determined new normal destination at some point and so where is that and when will we get there and and how

01:05:55

Long is it gonna take to get there? before our government feels like it's accomplished what it needed to accomplish in this in this season and I mean,

01:06:07

I think I don't know where your Eschatology is but but you know, if you if you see a man of lawlessness coming where an

01:06:18

Antichrist is going to step onto the scene and And there's going to be a one -world government under that under that man

01:06:26

I think our country has shown that it's gonna roll over. Yeah I mean it we we are conditioned and ready to roll over and Submit to whatever is on the horizon, which you know is discouraging on one level and somewhat encouraging on another because You know,

01:06:45

I think there's way more resistance in the u .s You know that the conditioning that would have to happen in your country to bring that country to the point where it would be ready

01:06:55

To just hand over its civil liberties. I think there's way more conditioning required in Canada.

01:07:01

No way I mean, we're ready. We're good. So so in that sense, I figure well, you know, if we're ready

01:07:08

Then we don't really need much more of this Before you kind of get to a quote -unquote new normal where you know, we're just living in this more governmentally controlled environment with privileges the government grants to us instead of rights that are

01:07:24

God -given and Where we can kind of get into some semblance of okay

01:07:29

This is what life's gonna look like in this new but right now it's just a state of flux, you know, and it's

01:07:37

So you're just kind of wondering when are we gonna get to the destination that's intended for this particular?

01:07:46

Crisis that the the government is capitalizing on. Yeah, exactly. It's Yeah, was it

01:07:52

Saul Alinsky? I guess it said never let a crisis go to waste and and this has certainly been a great opportunity and the

01:08:00

Canadian government and the United States government, unfortunately, the new administration here the

01:08:05

Biden administration is They're not letting a good crisis go to waste and in you

01:08:11

Kathy and I've talked about this a lot. I mean you can see how but before Before spring of last year.

01:08:19

It was a little bit more difficult to imagine How is the whole world gonna follow after this

01:08:26

Antichrist, you know, and it just it was hard to wrap your mind around that but now it's not quite as hard because you

01:08:35

You actually see it happening. Not that it the Antichrist capital a

01:08:40

Antichrist has come on the scene yet, but But it's a preview. It's it's a preview of coming attractions.

01:08:47

It's you can see it now. It's like oh, yeah Wow people really will just follow after You know the powers that be and just roll over and yes, it's been disheartening to see how many people have rolled over here.

01:09:02

Yeah not not to the extent that Canada has but but nonetheless

01:09:09

Yeah, a disturbing a disturbingly high percentage of people here even in some of our theological circles sadly

01:09:17

You know the the social justice stuff that's Speaking of which

01:09:23

James Pastor James. Um What would you say? Given all that you've been through and are continuing to go through.

01:09:30

What would you say to those churches who have? the attitude well

01:09:36

Yes, we should meet together Hebrews 10. We're to not forsake the assembling that's what we need to do, but If your church decides

01:09:48

Well, these are unusual times We have a pandemic We can forego

01:09:56

That until this blows over and it's just a matter of conscience, you know If you if your church wants to meet that's great.

01:10:04

But if your church decides, well, maybe we shouldn't that's okay, too It's kind of like an adiaphora thing. What what would your response be to that adiaphora meaning?

01:10:13

As an issue that People say there's no clear instruction from Scripture.

01:10:19

So you kind of leave it up to your conscience It's neither right nor wrong. Whatever you want to do. What would you? Yeah well,

01:10:26

I think there's definitely an Ecclesiological issue that that that needs to be addressed more fully that there's a low ecclesiology that That that exists in our time and and even just a

01:10:43

Reductionism like we're reducing The Christian life to the gospel and so as long as you're not being persecuted for the gospel

01:10:52

You're not really being persecuted Which is a an unbiblical redefinition of what persecution is

01:10:59

I mean, it's to be persecuted for the sake of righteousness It's it's it's to suffer for the name of Christ which goes beyond just the gospel it includes that so I think there's just a really low ecclesiology and and in understanding what has

01:11:19

God ordained to be the corporate gathering and and When are you now?

01:11:26

Altering what the corporate gathering is to the extent that it no longer is what

01:11:31

God ordained it to be for example We we gather on Sunday as the the corporate body

01:11:39

We have midweek gatherings that are smaller components of the body that are there for edification

01:11:45

And the utilization of the the plurality of giftedness in the body.

01:11:51

Yeah, but we recognize that those aren't corporate gatherings It's not the gathering of the church.

01:11:56

It's a Bible study So so it church is now basically

01:12:02

Dividing their body up into as many gatherings as they can to meet the conditions that are in place

01:12:08

It's no longer the corporate gathering You're you're and and the gatherings not just about the pastor and what he does to the people

01:12:17

That the corporate gathering is is the whole body coming together the the language of the body being many members

01:12:26

Yeah, and and and so you're going to basically Cut off portions of the body from other portions of the body as if that doesn't have an impact on the spiritual health and development of the body, right, you know when we come together as a body of believers and and and and do so corporately and we have the structured portion of our service where The the means of grace are in my estimation most

01:12:53

Operative the ordinary means of grace are most operative in building up the body of Christ And then you you shift from the structure part of your of your gather your gathering to the unstructured part

01:13:03

We're now one anothering is happening. Yeah, where the body is present to minister to itself

01:13:10

What when you divide your gatherings up into multiple gatherings? You're you're you're cutting people off from necessary vital members that are that are not able to interact with each other for the building up of the body of Christ and so Not only is it ecclesiological at that point in time, then it becomes a matter of spiritual growth and development and so what

01:13:34

I'm beginning to see as I reflect on this is That not only is there a low ecclesiology

01:13:43

There's a really low view of sanctification And and so pastors are in essence compromising the sanctification of their people in order to uphold their health their physical health, right and and that becomes concerning for me because as a pastor

01:14:04

I need to be Certainly concerned with my own personal holiness, but I should be also concerned for the holiness of my people and and so if if This season doesn't trigger concern for the holiness of the people that you shepherd

01:14:22

Then it makes me concerned on two fronts one That that that you ought to be concerned for the holiness of your people and how this season's affecting that and two

01:14:32

I'm concerned about the holiness of the pastors who aren't concerned about the holiness of their people

01:14:37

I mean if they're not concerned about the holiness of the people then how concerned are they about their own holiness? That's right.

01:14:43

And so that's right So I think that the issues that are on the table here and this is where you realize that all of theology is connected that every category of theology is is connected to the other you can't you can't isolate any portion of theology from the other they all come together and interconnect and and And so I just think that we're showing how weak our theology is

01:15:09

Yeah by by handling things the way that we are and and that tells you where the church is at present in terms of its health and development and and And so, you know, you've got this this judgment that's coming upon the household of God first Peter 4 and and it's gonna expose the true from the false and And it's gonna purify the true and make her ready for her bridegroom.

01:15:35

And and that's where we are right now. Yeah Amen, well said well said

01:15:41

I give a hearty. Amen to everything you just said and I I was really encouraged by your sermon on Romans 13 just before your imprisonment and link to that I put it in the video that I interviewed that I did with Aaron and I would commend that to people as well

01:15:59

So if folks if you're watching if you're hearing this for the first time look down in the in the description below and you'll see a link to Pastor James exposition of Romans 13 obeying the governing authorities and James not not gonna ask you to preach our whole sermon again

01:16:17

But but give us what would you say to those a kind of cliff note version of those who say well the governing authorities are telling us to not meet and We're to obey the governing authorities you talked in your sermon about government overstepping its bounds and Getting into an area specifically the church that it has no jurisdiction in so Walk us through that just just cliff note version if you would.

01:16:44

Yeah, all authority is Christ's he declares in Matthew 28 all authority has been given unto me and and that means that every expression of earthly human authority is

01:16:55

Delegated and if it's delegated it's limited. And so you can see that in the scriptures you've got the church the family and the government as spheres of authority that exist and and each sphere has authority to govern in accord with the limits that God places on those spheres and and there's certainly overlap in some respects with respect to the home the family and the government, but there are clear lines of distinction where where jurisdiction over matters of worship

01:17:28

Exclusively belong to the church and and where parenting belongs to the parents and where governing belongs to the government and so when people want to say that that we have to Submit ourselves to the government regardless of whether or not the law they've put in place is just or not or Regardless of whether or not it's an overreach on their authority in effect they are

01:17:59

Making the government out to be God essentially where where the where the government can create laws

01:18:06

Without any accountability and our responsibility is to abide by those laws.

01:18:12

And and so that's a failure to recognize that there are limits that are placed on the the authority of government and it fails to recognize that there is is

01:18:22

That which ought to be rendered to Caesar and there is that which ought to be rendered to God and and my concern

01:18:30

Both in the unbelieving world as well as within the context of the professing church is that that people are essentially treating government like it's

01:18:40

God that it has authority to Essentially declare anything and and we have this obligation to to abide by it

01:18:49

So it's a it's a it's a poor view of government. I think we've all in our church anyway been reading historical works on the doctrine of the lesser magistrate and and we're we're we're seeing our responsibility and even duty to to oppose unjust laws and so Christians throughout the centuries past understood this and and and we just somehow have not

01:19:17

I mean we are our our theology of government is very weak and impotent and it's lacking a robustness and and So I think

01:19:28

Christians are just not thinking through this carefully and clearly and And thoroughly and that's why they're they're coming out the way they are.

01:19:37

Yeah, absolutely Yeah, and for most of us as Christians It's kind of the first time we've actually had to think through these things in a real practical real world rubber meets the road kind of a way and unfortunately,

01:19:51

I think a lot of Believers or at least professing believers are not seeing this rightly

01:19:57

I thought your exposition of Romans 13 was very well done and very helpful It's in Acts chapter 5, right?

01:20:04

We must obey God rather than man. Yeah So when man's laws run in contradiction to God's laws

01:20:13

If we have that that's not a difficult choice, we know who we must obey.

01:20:19

Amen. Yeah. Yeah, so well, James have have you we know that John MacArthur has mentioned you repeatedly from the pulpit and It's been very encouraging of you and grace life there in Edmonton.

01:20:37

Have you spoken with him? Yeah, we've talked a couple of times and he's been incredibly supportive and encouraging and So I've been

01:20:49

I've been blessed by that I mean his ministry has impacted my life

01:20:55

More than any other and and then even stock dr. Stephen J Lawson You know his influence on my life in recent years as well through the doctorate ministry program at the

01:21:05

Master's Seminary It's been significant and he's been really supportive as well the

01:21:10

Master's Seminary has been Wonderful I was able to address the graduating class of 2021 on Sunday through a video that I sent and and and so that was an honor to do that and to charge those men to be resolved to follow

01:21:29

Christ no matter the cost and Yeah, so the support that I've received from John MacArthur and and Stephen J Lawson and and even

01:21:41

Tom Askell Jared It's just been great. It's been It's been

01:21:48

It's been really really good. Yeah yourself. Yeah Well, brother you've been a great encouragement to so many of us you and your family and your church and we really do

01:21:59

Thank you. Thank you for your faithful witness and Is there anything of course,

01:22:06

I would encourage all of my viewers here Pray for James pray for his wife

01:22:13

Aaron their family pray for Grace Life Church Pray for them because as we said a few minutes ago, this is not over.

01:22:20

They're not out of the woods yet. So James we're going to continue to lift you up brother and Is there is there anything in a more tangible the way that we?

01:22:33

Can help you what what would you like to say to to the viewers? What is there anything in addition to prayer that we can do for y 'all?

01:22:42

you know, I don't I don't know that right now there is and and prayer is incredibly practical and needed and so that you'd be praying for us would be

01:22:56

Wonderful and we're just struggling in some ways to just do the bread and butter of ministry right now and and even

01:23:03

Even something as practical as me determining what I'm gonna preach on Sunday is a challenge and so even if you're praying that the

01:23:11

Lord would Providentially provide me with what it is that I'm gonna preach on Sunday I mean he knows right what

01:23:19

I'm gonna preach and and right now I don't and that's uncomfortable So the sooner

01:23:25

I know the better and hopefully I can settle that even even today I realize your audience may not hear this today, but Yeah prayers is

01:23:36

Incredible if there are other needs that arise along the way We'll we'll do our best to make folks aware of that.

01:23:42

But right now prayer is critical. Yeah And so you the church continues to meet just in different, you know undisclosed locations.

01:23:50

That's correct continue to meet and So, yeah, brother, we will be praying for you and your flock.

01:23:57

Thank you, Justin. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, John Thank you. Hey, you're welcome

01:24:08

Hello dear ones I mentioned in the video that John MacArthur has mentioned James Coates a number of times from the pulpit and I wanted to show you an excerpt of this

01:24:17

Shortly after his release James wrote a letter to John MacArthur and Grace Community Church.

01:24:23

Just expressing his appreciation to them for their support and so watch this as we begin our worship today,

01:24:38

I Have a great privilege and honor before we have a word of prayer and sing a hymn to read a letter to you this morning

01:24:49

Grace Life Church up in Alberta Canada is meeting somewhere

01:24:56

We don't know where James Coates said at this point, it's

01:25:02

Not for the public to know Amazing to have an underground church in Canada This because the government of Alberta a

01:25:20

Triple fence the church in and locked it so people couldn't go there. I think the latest statistics

01:25:26

I've seen are that 2 ,000 people Have died through the months of kovat 80 % of them in senior homes

01:25:38

The the remaining ones had some kind of comorbidity out of the millions of people who live in Alberta so there's no legitimate reason to do what they did to this church, especially at this point in the kovat life but they did and This is a first for the

01:25:58

Western world To have the government lock out believers from a church and that after Imprisoning James Coates who's a graduate of the

01:26:08

Master's Seminary? In maximum security prison, they let him away in chains and he was there for about 35 days many of you have been praying for Grace Life Church and the the scene is changing there is a massive outcry against the government for doing this and I'm Praying along with you that this will draw attention to that church to him and to the gospel

01:26:35

And it's already beginning to do that. But he he sent a letter that he wanted me to read to all of you

01:26:42

As this is his heart of gratitude to Grace Church, so I'm just going to read it the way he sent it yesterday

01:26:52

To Grace Community Church, which is in God the Father and the

01:26:57

Lord Jesus Christ Grace to you and peace in him Blessed be the

01:27:02

God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has super abundantly glorified himself through you

01:27:09

For decades you have been a strong and steadfast pillar and support of the truth

01:27:14

So much so the Lord has established many other beacons of truth throughout this world as a direct result of your ministry

01:27:23

You have exemplified a profound love for the brethren warm service and hospitality and an undeniable love for God and his word in Fact his word has sounded forth from you with such power and precision that the fruit of your ministry is absolutely immeasurable this side of heaven

01:27:42

Pastor John's 52 years of faithful ministry is as much a testimony to you as it is to him

01:27:48

May God richly reward you for your faithfulness Thank you for the way you cared for me my family and congregation during my imprisonment

01:27:59

Your love and prayerful support were vital to our steadfastness in the face of suffering

01:28:05

The letter from the elders was an immense encouragement The support from dr. Nathan boozin it's and the master seminary was both humbling and strengthening and The pastoral care provided by pastor

01:28:17

John was incredibly comforting It was also a rich blessing to receive letters from a number of you while imprisoned

01:28:24

Those letters provided necessary fuel for my resolve My wife

01:28:30

Erin also sends her greetings and thankfulness She was and continues to be greatly strengthened by your letters

01:28:38

You poured into her early in her spiritual development and you are pouring into her now as well

01:28:45

You have suffered well for the gospel It is an indescribable blessing to join you in that suffering

01:28:53

Our congregations have been counted worthy for this purpose May we rejoice in this as did the

01:29:00

Apostles in their sufferings? Jesus Christ is the Sovereign Lord over all creation and the supreme head of the church

01:29:09

We will bow to him and him alone Only he is worthy and now may he continually strengthen you unto all faithfulness

01:29:20

And may he constantly radiate his honor and glory through you to him be the glory forever and ever

01:29:27

Amen James Coates Wonderful letter and here we are meeting and they're not and It's not because we're worthy of such kindness from the

01:29:48

Lord. It's grace, isn't it? Grace has always been full of grace and we're seeing it at the hand of the

01:29:56

Lord They keep postponing our court day This is

01:30:02

I think the fifth or sixth time they've postponed it now till I guess June 23rd and State is supposed to open

01:30:09

June 15th. So it looks like the judge just punted It was 4th and 98

01:30:26

Let's pray father. We pray for our dear friend

01:30:35

James Coates and Aaron and their family and Others who stand with him for Grace Life Church up in Alberta That the word will continue to sound forth from them

01:30:47

We thank you for his Godliness his manliness his courage his conviction His strength his resolve

01:30:57

Thank you for the work you've done in his heart so that he would be strong and courageous and Put himself in a position of Obedience no matter what the cost so that you could be honored

01:31:17

Even as he concluded his letter His words are our prayer

01:31:26

May you O Lord constantly radiate your honor and glory through us

01:31:34

Through Grace Church and through Grace Life Church to you be the glory forever and ever

01:31:41

Amen well dear ones I trust that you were is encouraged and edified by that as I was it was a

01:31:50

Beautiful letter and just a special time there for John MacArthur to read that to his congregation on that Sunday morning

01:31:56

As I mentioned earlier in the video James Coates was really maligned by a lot of professing

01:32:06

Christians that were in or are in the social justice movement and saying things like he brought this on himself he's attention seeker and You know a martyr and just making himself out to be a martyr and and just some horrible things that Social justice warriors were saying about him and that was not at all surprising.

01:32:28

What was surprising was Some people in our theological camp at least theoretically people who are

01:32:36

Very much opposed to the social social justice movement and what it teaches

01:32:42

For example, someone sent me this This is from Tim Hurd. He posted that video that I just showed you he posted it on his

01:32:51

YouTube channel and by the way, Tim Hurd posted this very much in support of James Coates and John MacArthur reading the letter and Then this gentleman as you can see who is against social justice and at least theoretically in our theological camp

01:33:08

He said three things John Mac reading the letter by Coates was entirely Self -serving let me that is

01:33:16

I Just I don't understand that Mindset John MacArthur was sharing a letter from a pastor who has been through Just an unimaginable trial

01:33:30

He was sharing it for the encouragement and edification of the Saints Which it did that it encouraged and edified me and I'm sure it did you too

01:33:42

So it that is um, I just don't understand that kind of mindset to disparage

01:33:47

John MacArthur's motives in such a way and then he says some members of Grace Life Church helping the police put back up fencing is not

01:33:54

Testimony, but supporting unjust and unlawful actions So this gentleman understands that putting the fence around the church was unjust and unlawful

01:34:04

It was but he says members of Grace Life Church helped the police do that Well, I happen to happen to know that that's factually not true.

01:34:12

There were some protesters many of whom professed to be believers and they did well initially the

01:34:20

Fence was taken down and then some of those protesters professing believers

01:34:26

Helped the police put the fence back up But they were not none of them were members of Grace Life Church Grace Life Church was meeting in a secret undisclosed location

01:34:39

So whoever these people were that helped the police put the fence back up. They were not members of Grace Life Church And I have that Directly from James Coates himself in an email that he and I exchanged just yesterday and then he says

01:34:56

Grace Life Church meeting in a in secret is an act of cowardice. I You heard

01:35:07

James Coates you watch the interview You saw the man you saw his heart. You saw what he's been through.

01:35:14

I Guess I'll leave it up to you if you think that he is a coward. I Just I don't understand that.

01:35:22

I don't get it but whatever I for one and I know many many others are very appreciative of James Coates and the stand that they have taken and and Let me kind of land this plane this way dear ones

01:35:38

The Bible says 2nd Timothy chapter 3 All those who live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted

01:35:46

There are no exception clauses to that Unless you live in the United States of America or unless you live in Canada Unless you live in the

01:35:56

Western world, you know We think of persecution as something that happens to believers in Iran in Syria and North Korea And certainly they do experience horrific persecution persecution on a scale that none of us have seen

01:36:11

Living in the in the Western world I know I have people all over the world watching this and I praise the Lord for that But you know in a in a democracy we haven't seen that not yet, but But if you have never experienced at least some soft persecution

01:36:28

Somewhere in your life, then you're not living godly in Christ Jesus if we live godly in Christ Jesus There will be persecution maybe not

01:36:40

Imprisonment like what James Coates has already experienced. Maybe not like What goes on in North Korea and Iran?

01:36:47

But there should be some soft persecution everywhere if you're if you're truly living in Christ Jesus for everyone

01:36:53

I should say So ready yourself now Make up your mind now just like Daniel and his friends

01:37:03

Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah Daniel chapter 1 They made up their minds that they would not defile themselves with the king's choice food or the wine

01:37:10

Which he drank make up your mind now because persecution is coming. It's going to come it is it will be increasing

01:37:17

It should already have some soft persecution, but the hard stuff Will come if the

01:37:23

Lord tarries and so I want to close by showing you an excerpt from another sermon preached by Mike Riccardi Mike Riccardi is one of the elders there at Grace Community Church.

01:37:33

He's a friend of mine wonderful wonderful guy and just an outstanding preacher, but I'll close with this watch this excerpt and I'll put a link to the full sermon down below But I'll watch this brief excerpt from Mike Riccardi's sermon that he preached on April the 18th 2021

01:37:54

You never see somebody trying to build a storm shelter in the middle of a category 5 hurricane or when an f5 tornado enters their neighborhood

01:38:04

Nobody with any sense waits for a house fire to start before they begin building a fire escape

01:38:10

Why because in the moment that tragedy strikes you don't have time to think clearly to evaluate your options to construct systems of defense

01:38:21

The craziness of the moment simply won't allow it you need to be so prepared for disaster that the moment you detect it

01:38:28

Second nature kicks in and you follow the plan You've got a fire escape route.

01:38:34

You've got the storm shelter. Well stocked whatever it is The same thing is true friends of Christian suffering

01:38:43

I Don't believe it's possible to overstate how important it is to have a rock -solid theology of suffering

01:38:51

Before you enter into it Because in the midst of some exceedingly painful trial the craziness of the the moment hardly ever allows for cool contemplation and sound reflective reasoning the storm shelter of biblical truth that keeps you grounded in the midst of the hurricane of suffering can't be constructed in the middle of the storm

01:39:18

It needs to be set firmly in place ahead of time So that it can serve as a sure and steadfast anchor in the midst of whatever turmoil we might experience

01:39:27

We need to be equipped to suffer. Well before that suffering comes upon us

01:39:35

And without being a doomsayer I want to suggest to you brothers and sisters that the hurricane is coming

01:39:43

It shouldn't take us by surprise Because the Lord Jesus warned us that the world that hated him would hate his followers

01:39:49

John 15 20 if they persecuted me They will also persecute you Paul says in 2nd

01:39:56

Timothy 3 12 all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted

01:40:03

But the time is coming for us for followers of Jesus in North America To experience a level of opposition to the gospel that we have not before I wonder if any of you could have imagined that you'd live to see the government sue churches

01:40:22

Because they're gathering together on the Lord's Day in obedience to Christ's command Could you have ever imagined you'd see as has done to our brothers and sisters up in Canada a church building

01:40:35

Fenced off and padlocked by the government and guarded by 200 police officers preventing worshippers from entering

01:40:45

Could you have ever imagined that the governing authorities would put a pastor in jail

01:40:51

For assembling with his congregation for Sunday worship I'm convinced that the most serious calling and stewardship that pastors have today is

01:41:03

To prepare their congregations to endure persecution in a way that honors

01:41:09

Christ Because if you think that craziness is staying up in Canada You're wrong

01:41:17

May not be here tomorrow. I may not be here next year But unless the Lord disposes otherwise by his providence friends it is coming in my lifetime

01:41:29

And I watch a brother that I went to seminary with spend days month a month in jail apart from his family

01:41:36

And I asked myself Are you ready to be locked out of church?

01:41:43

Are you ready to face crippling fines that could result in the seizure of your property? Are you ready to go to jail and be separated from your family?

01:41:54

Are you ready to lose your job for refusing to bow to the cultural totalitarianism that demands that you call

01:42:01

Richard Rachel? That demands that you live by the lies of the new paganism

01:42:08

We need to be equipped to suffer. Well We need to be equipped to stand firm in the face of persecution to remain

01:42:19

Faithful in the midst of trials because those trials are coming and That's because this world is not our home

01:42:29

In the opening verse of 1st Peter Peter calls the believers. He is writing to those who reside as aliens

01:42:38

The term speaks of a temporary resident in a foreign place Those who don't have the rights of citizenship, but are temporary foreign residents of that area

01:42:49

Peter will say in chapter 2 verse 11 that we are aliens and strangers in the world

01:42:57

Hebrews 11 13 Says that believers in the promises of God confess that they are strangers and exiles on the earth

01:43:07

Philippians 3 20 says our citizenship is in heaven and in 1st

01:43:13

Peter 1 17 the beginning of our text this Evening Peter speaks of the believers present life as the time of your stay on earth

01:43:22

Do you hear how temporary that sounds? Where do you hear about your stay when you're in a hotel?

01:43:28

I hope you enjoyed your stay sir You're not living in that hotel. You're not setting up business in that hotel.

01:43:34

You're passing through You're a sojourner You're a pilgrim You're a stranger journeying through the foreign land.

01:43:43

That is planet Earth to your country of citizenship And so you should only expect suffering

01:43:52

It only makes sense that the world would hate those who are not its own

01:44:00

Remember what Jesus said to the disciples in John 15 19? He said if you were of the world the world would love its own

01:44:06

But because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world because of this the world hates you

01:44:15

You're a pilgrim you are not of this world you speak differently

01:44:21

You behave differently you enjoy different things You are unimpressed with the worldly lusts that so captivate the hearts of the people in this country

01:44:33

And they hate you because of it What does

01:44:40

Peter say in chapter 4 verse 4? He says they are surprised that you do not run with them into the same excesses of dissipation and they malign you a life lived according to the customs of the country of your citizenship

01:44:57

Indicts the sinful lifestyle of those who live according to their own lusts and pleasures and it provokes them to hate you

01:45:06

And then besides a holy life the world hates those who like their Lord testify of it that its deeds are evil

01:45:14

John 7 7 The world cannot abide those who will stand up and testify that Richard is not

01:45:22

Rachel That marriage is not up for redefinition That the child in the womb is not a clump of cells until the mother decides

01:45:30

He's a person but he's an image bearer of Almighty God who alone determines personhood

01:45:36

Who will hear that Christ is God that he has lived and died and risen again And that there is no name given among men under heaven by which anyone must be saved

01:45:47

That he is the way the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the father but by him

01:45:55

You testify of those things And trouble is coming

01:46:02

That hurricane that tornado that earthquake is coming and we need to be prepared ahead of time

01:46:08

To weather that storm to endure faithfully to suffer Well as the title of our series explains to stand firm

01:46:19

Stand firm dear ones the storm is coming Stand firm and do pray for James and Aaron and their family and Grace Life Church up in Edmonton Alberta Canada, they're not out of the woods yet, but God is in control

01:46:35

Thank you very much for watching dear ones until our next time together May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ the love of God and the fellowship of his