April 3, 2025 Show with Daniel P. Buttafuoco on “Every Christian is an Apologist”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this third day of April, 2025.

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I'm absolutely thrilled to have an old friend on the program today.

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He's a returning guest. He is a key financial supporter of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and always has been, as well as a sponsor and supporter of every single event that I have set my hand to do, including all of the great debates from the

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Great Debate Series with Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and other conferences and events that I have arranged and hosted.

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His name will be no stranger to my audience, for sure, because his ads are heard on this program every day.

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His name is Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law. He is the senior partner and founder of the law firm of Buttafuoco &

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Associates, and he's also the founder and president of the

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Historical Bible Society. Today, we are talking about Every Christian is an

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Apologist. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, my old friend

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Dan Buttafuoco. Well, Chris, it's exciting to be here. I'm glad to see you and to talk to you.

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You said an old friend. Is this a friend that is old or a friend that you've known a long time?

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I'm not sure. I think in our case, it's both. Probably both. But anyway,

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I feel like I'm just getting started. I'm full of energy. I've got seven grandkids, and they're keeping me young.

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And I just actually spoke at their high school, a Christian high school. They called a special assembly for 150 kids.

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And I got to tell you, I want to talk about this. We had a really great time. Great. Well, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about your law firm and the specialty of law that you practice there?

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Well, I think it's well known that I'm a personal injury and medical malpractice trial lawyer.

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We represent people all over the country. I just got a case in Alaska just a few minutes ago involved in serious injuries and serious accidents.

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We have sort of a nationwide network of firms that are handpicked by me that I've known, colleagues of mine that we use.

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And so that's how we make our money, and that's how we also serve the Christian community. But more importantly,

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I'm more interested at the present in terms of explaining to your listeners the need for all of us to be able to engage at least in a rudimentary form apologetics, the idea of defending the faith.

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It's really needed more than ever today because, you know, we understand that we should preach the gospel.

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I'm not saying we shouldn't. We understand that only the Lord can bring—I hear this all the time by well -meaning

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Christians—only the Holy Spirit can get somebody, bring somebody under conviction and get them saved and change their heart.

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Of course, I know all of that. The bottom line here, though, is that we're being faced with the challenge that we're dealing with people on a regular basis who do not have a biblical worldview.

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So while you may be able to preach the gospel, and certainly we can't ignore the mystical aspects of that and the fact that you engage in suppositional apologetics, the fact that the

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Word has power in and of itself. But apologetics is sort of like clearing the brush.

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It's sort of like plowing the ground before you can plant the seeds of the gospel. And it's actually wisdom to do it this way.

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You know, the Lord used a lot of metaphors when he taught his people and his disciples and taught us.

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He talked about farming and he talked about the farmer sowing the seed. He spent a lot of time emphasizing, well, if the seed is the same wherever it's sown, the ground is the issue.

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And the ground today has gotten very hard. The ground today is full of weeds.

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The ground today is on trodden paths and rocky soil. And it's evident in the culture.

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One of the big problems we're having here is we're losing the young people at an alarming rate.

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And there's reasons for that, which I'll get into. Presently, two -thirds—there was a survey that was done recently,

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I forget who did it, but it was a good survey, a quality survey—two -thirds of the young people aged 18 to 22 are leaving the faith when they hit university.

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That's 66 percent. That's the vast majority of them. And this is heartbreaking. You know, these are kids that go to church, grow up in the youth group, you know, and it tends to be the smarter kids that leave.

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And, you know, when only the smart kids leave, you know who's left, right? So the smart kids, they go to college, they go to university, they're enamored with their professors, and the professors talk them out of the faith.

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And it's such a bad and chronic problem. They've made a movie out of it. If you haven't seen it, it's worth seeing.

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It's called God Is Not Dead. I've had this own experience with my daughter in university.

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She went to the same university I went to, and the first day of class, a backslidden, fallen -away

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Jesuit was attacking her faith. Found out that she was a Christian, zeroed in on her.

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And, you know, as a young woman, she came back to me and said, Dad, what do I do? Oh, how do I handle this? I said, we're going to handle it, all right?

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Watch what we're going to handle it. You know, we've got a lot of good arguments and a lot of good reasons for why we believe.

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You know, the Bible says, always be ready to give a reason for the hope that is within you. That's in Peter. And so I'd been studying apologetics under some famous apologists, got my degree at Alliance Theological Seminary in apologetics, and in addition to my law degree, which

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I got at Hofstra University. And so we started answering the professor. We started coming back with our own challenges and our own apologetic answers.

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And to make a long story short, at the end of the class, she got an A+. Wow. Yeah.

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But the better part was he wrote across her paper, and I had the paper somewhere, he said, you have made me doubt some of my own atheism.

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Wow. Now, see, here's the thing. Whether the guy gets saved or not, that's another issue.

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I sure hope and pray that he does or did. But what we did, it was very important for my daughter to see that we have excellent answers for the questions that the unbelievers throw at us.

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And you know the questions. You've seen the questions. Why does a good God, an omnipotent God, permit evil?

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He's not all good, or he's not all omnipotent, right? What about evolution?

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Do we believe in evolution? What about the Big Bang? Well, the

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Big Bang supports us, first of all, if you properly understand it. Because before that, it was believed that the universe was eternal.

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And now we know for certain, scientifically, that it's not eternal. It had a beginning, which means it had a beginner.

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And the other questions that typically get hurled at believers, you know, the Bible was written by men.

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Yeah, yes, it was, right? It was. But was it accurately transmitted? We know there were copyist errors.

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Yes, there were copyist errors. So what? If I asked you to copy the Bible, you'd make an error. We know exactly where the errors were.

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We can reclaim Scripture with great accuracy. There are great answers to these questions. But, you know, if you don't know them, you tend to sit on your backside and sort of, you know, surrender to the lies of the culture and the lies of the age.

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So what I'm here to talk about is the fact that every Christian, whether you're a plumber talking to your fellow plumber, whether you're a police officer talking to someone in your squad car while you're out on a stakeout, or whether you're working in an insurance company in a cubicle talking to the person next to you, you need to have some basic ideas of apologetics and how to defend your faith, to know why you believe what you believe, because those are the things that people want to know.

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And by the way, if you don't know why you believe something, you shouldn't believe it. I tell you that.

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I make you that challenge because I want everyone to realize that there are good and solid reasons for why we believe the

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Bible's the Word of God, why we believe that Jesus died, rose again, and why we believe and faith in Him will save us from our sins.

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We have very good reasons to believe the Bible's accurately preserved. We have lots of good reasons for all the stuff that we believe.

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But if you don't know them, then you're not able to give an answer. And I'll tell you one more thing, then I'll let you talk,

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Chris. The Bible says in Jude that we ought to contend for the faith once and for all and trust it to the saints.

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You know, contend means to fight. Like two contenders in a ring. We need to fight.

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Like lawyers love to fight. It's not personal. You know, we fight in court and then we go out and we have a cup of coffee and we hang out and we go back and we fight some more.

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Because you're fighting with ideas. You're casting down vain imaginations. You're taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.

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And that's what apologetics does. Apologetics is contending for the faith. And so we need more than ever today to contend for the faith and be able to give a reason for the hope that is within us.

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Yes, that is a quote from 1

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Peter 3 .15. But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you with gentleness and reverence.

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And that is what we are talking about in regard to apologetics. I recently heard somebody being interviewed on TV and he hated that phrase because he thought it meant that we are apologizing for our faith, trying to explain it away and being sorry for it.

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That has nothing to do with what the word apologia means.

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And it has to do with that very thing that I just quoted from in 1 Peter 3 .15.

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An apologist is basically a lawyer for the faith. Somebody who contends or who argues for the truth of the gospel.

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And you don't have to be a lawyer. It does help someone like me. The fact that I'm trained in rhetoric.

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I'm trained in spotting issues. I'm trained in evidence. I'm an evidence guy. That's what a trial lawyer is.

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And so it's important. If you're a lawyer listening, even more so, you should be somewhat adept at apologetics.

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But you don't have to be a lawyer. You just have to be like many of your listeners I know are very intelligent and very knowledgeable people and just spend a little less time wasting time on TV or watching cat videos and get involved in some

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YouTube apologetic sites. There are great resources online to learn apologetics.

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And what I'm going to tell you today, the time that we have, I'll give you some basic arguments, time permits that you can use.

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But the idea here is that we should be knowledgeable about what we believe. Now, Chris, you just quoted

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Peter, right? Now, if somebody were to ask Peter in the first century, you know, to the reason why he believes, because that's what he's saying, be ready to give a reason.

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You know what he would have said? He would have said, I was not a follower of cleverly invented fables, but I'm eyewitnesses to his majesty.

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Right? Because that's exactly what he says in one of the verses of the book that he writes. We're not followers of cleverly invented fables, but we're eyewitnesses of his majesty.

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So Peter's apologetic could be different than yours. Peter's apologetic would be, you know what?

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I've seen the risen Christ. I watched him turn the water into wine. I was there when he raised

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Lazarus from the dead. I know that he was crucified, and I saw the risen Christ. I saw

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Thomas put his hands in the wounds. So his apologetic is different, but our apologetic can be based on the eyewitness testimony of the apostles, which is, by the way, what separates

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Christianity from every other faith, right? Our faith is historic. It has what is called historicity, unlike many of the other religions in the world, right?

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You talk about Islam, right? Islam, it all hangs on the testimony of Muhammad. And Muhammad says that Jesus was never crucified, right?

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But as anybody knows, Muhammad was born 700, 600 years plus after Jesus walked the face of the earth.

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So Muhammad is giving testimony about something he never saw. Now, you don't have to believe

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Muhammad. He claims he got his revelation in a cave from an angel.

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Initially, he thought he was demon -possessed. And then he went and asked his wife. And his wife says, no, no, it's

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God. You run with it. I'm paraphrasing, right? And so all of Islam hangs on the testimony of Muhammad, who initially wasn't even sure who he was hearing from, right?

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The Bible's not like that. The Bible has multiple eyewitness accounts. John 1, that which we have seen, that which we have handled, this we declare to you concerning the word of truth.

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And then Luke says the faith having been handed down from the first who are eyewitnesses.

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We've investigated carefully everything. So there are a lot of good reasons to believe what we believe, and a lot of strong evidences for it.

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In fact, there's so much evidence for the faith that the founder of Harvard Law School, Simon Greenleaf, who is a known expert on evidence—anybody knows new evidence, it was this guy—and he says, you can choose not to believe the biblical accounts, you can choose not to believe in Christ, but you can never say there's not enough evidence.

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And this is a guy that's an expert in evidence, and I'm also an expert in evidence, having tried a good number of cases and being very familiar with the federal rules of evidence and the state code of evidence as well.

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So when you look at the evidence, we have a very strong evidentiary case for the gospel.

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Now, having said that, our evidence, we don't have a slam -dunk case in the sense that we have one piece of evidence that is overwhelming, and that,

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I believe, is by design. God has put the burden on us, the onus on us, if you will, to seek the

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Lord while He may be found. God doesn't overwhelm you with evidence. He puts the burden on us to seek and to ask and to taste and see that the

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Lord is good. And the evidence for the gospel, the evidence for the Christian faith, is very much like a jigsaw puzzle, where you assemble little tiny pieces of evidence until a picture emerges, and that picture is ultimately of Jesus Christ.

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Well, I want to give our listeners our email address right now, in the event that they have questions for you.

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It is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

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USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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You may want to ask about your own efforts and apologetics and evangelism to someone you love who may be an apostate from the faith or perhaps was never a professing

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Christian, could be a backslider in your family, somebody who has plunged into the wicked sins of fornication, adultery, or homosexuality.

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It could be a whole host of things. And obviously, you would be compelled to remain anonymous if you're asking about something that personal.

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But if you're just asking a general question, give us your name, your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence.

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I also wanted to quickly plug Dan's work with the Historical Bible Society.

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He travels around, especially in the eastern coast, and even more especially in the

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New York tri -state area, to churches, to schools, and other institutions with a portion of his vast collection of Bibles and Christian books of antiquity, some of them extremely rare and valuable.

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And he puts on a display of these items and gives a lecture on why we should trust the scriptures and how we came to receive them from their original languages into modern

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English. And I have been overwhelmed with blessings every time

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I've seen Dan do it. He always adds something to make each lecture unique.

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And it's one of those rare times when I've been at an event when those in attendance, the vast majority of those in attendance, stay long after the event is over to not only observe in a closer fashion

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Dan's collection of books and rare Bibles of antiquity, but to ask questions.

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So, if you are ever interested in having Dan speak for your church or school or other organization, you can call his toll -free number 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT.

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That's the number for his law firm. And his website for the Historical Bible Society is historicalbiblesociety .org.

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Dan, can you tell our listeners when this fascination and excitement over apologetics really started to rise up in your heart and mind as a

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Christian? Well, Christian, I've always had a very curious nature, and I've always been somebody who wanted to look for and look at the underlying reasons for why we believe things.

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And I grew up in a religious home. My mother handed me a Bible when I was three years old.

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As far as I remember, my first words were Scripture. We loved the

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Lord. My mother and father loved the Lord. They met in church. Their parents loved the Lord. I have a long history in the faith.

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You know, you're the first person in your family to have any kind of serious education.

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And these questions arise when you're taught to think critically, and I think that's really lacking among a lot of Christians today.

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I'm really sad to say that. A hundred years ago, the pastor was the smartest guy in the room when you went into a gathering.

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A hundred and fifty years ago, without question, the pastor was the intellect.

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That was at any party. And sadly, that's not the case anymore. I mean, they give rudimentary training to some people.

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People go out and they start a Bible study, and then they have a charismatic personality, and that Bible study morphs into a church.

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And, you know, you get the predictable result. You get a lot of people saved. You get a lot of people excited. But a lot of times, the understanding and knowledge of theology, of the background church history, is not very deep.

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And if you don't have the deep roots, it's very easy to fall away. Sometimes it's just a fad with these people, and I'm sad to say that.

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I mean, I've been part of these churches. It's shocking, the level of ignorance in terms of how ancient the faith is, what it's based on, you know, the scholarship behind it.

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I mean, we have amazing, amazing scholars in the church, but within the last 100 years or so, that's sort of been shoved aside.

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Some denominations have actually made a conscious effort to walk away from the intellectual arena, figuring that, you know, justifying it by saying, you know, well, this is a spiritual thing, you know, we'll just preach the gospel, and we'll get people baptized in the

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Holy Spirit, and that's going to be the job. But what ends up happening, as soon as you abandon any of the arenas of society, in this case, the intellectual arena, the universities, that the vacuum gets filled.

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And the vacuum gets filled by evil thinkers and satanic thoughts, and, you know, you see the predictable result that we have in the universities.

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I mean, it's a bastion of unbiblical and evil thinking. It's postmodernism, it's secularism, it's the worst of all philosophies.

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That's starting to change a little bit. There's been a swing back the other way. But, you know, they take sort of a special pride in trashing

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Christian beliefs and trashing traditionalism, trying to rewrite history.

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I mean, this is no secret. I mean, it's pretty obvious what's going on. And we need more Christian intellectuals.

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You know, we need more Christian professors, we need more Christian scientists. You know, we need more people to stick up for the truth of what they believe.

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You know, Jesus said, you'll know the truth and the truth will make you free. You know, and truth is under attack.

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I mean, you know, you now have people that think they could change their sex. You know, people would think they could be a cat.

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You know, we indulge all this nonsense out of, you know, out of a sense of, you know,

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I guess sympathy or empathy for these people. Tolerance. Yeah.

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Well, tolerance means putting up with what you don't like. You know, I don't tolerate chocolate ice cream, you know.

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You know, so even this idea of tolerance has been co -opted and changed into a different word.

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Listen, we should love everybody. I'm not saying that. I feel bad. I debate people all the time.

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I feel bad for some of the choices that people make. But, you know, our obligation is to protect people sometimes from themselves, right, and not indulge every fool thought that is promoted today.

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And so apologetics is a big factor of that because really it starts with the defense of the truth.

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You know, the devil goes right for the foundation. You know, today they say there's no such thing as absolute truth.

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That's a big one, right? You heard that. You have your truth, and your truth might involve, you know, you believing something that is completely different than what

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I believe. And so we resolve it by saying you have your truth and I have my truth. That's ridiculous. Truth is not something that is personal.

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It's not something that is private. The truth is that which comports with reality. It's an objective reality that we're all obligated to try to find.

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And so to cop out by saying you have your truth and I have my truth and she has her truth and he has his truth is just nonsense.

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I mean, I could believe with all my heart that I could fill my gas tank of my car with a water hose for my garden.

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I'd like to believe that, right? I really want to believe that, right? We all know what's going to happen if I put water in my gas tank because it's subjectively true that my car needs gasoline and no amount of wishful thinking on my part, even if I'm sincere, is going to change that.

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I could be sincere and be sincerely wrong. So it's not about being sincere. You could be sincere and be sincerely wrong.

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We are all obligated to find the truth, to embrace the truth, and to work with the truth and to live with the truth.

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And even the idiotic statement that there's no such thing as absolute truth is itself a self -defeating statement because you're making a truth declaration.

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You're saying it's absolutely true that there's no such thing as absolute truth. And on its face, it just breaks down.

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It's nonsense. And why do we buy this? We got to push back against this stuff. And I think it's starting to change.

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I want to tell you a really great story, if I have time, about my kids' school.

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Well, about three weeks ago, I was invited to speak at a special assembly of about 150 high schoolers.

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And this was at a Christian school. And I will tell you, my kids and my grandkids have not spent a single day in public school, not because we are snobs, but because we don't trust the ideology that is being pushed upon these kids.

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And look, I understand that a lot of people can't afford to do that. And so I'm sympathetic of that.

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In fact, I start scholarships for these things to help people. But my wife has told me, she said she would clean toilets if she had to so that our grandkids don't have to spend a single day in secular school.

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So they're all in Christian school, but even the Christian school, like anything else, has its issues. So they called me in to do a special assembly, and they wanted to see the

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Bibles. And I don't think they expected, you know, what they were going to get, because they were like, well, you know, you can have a half hour.

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We're going to do like five songs. It's a chapel. And then you can have a half hour. I said, listen, I said, I need an hour. They said, you're going to hold these kids' attention for an hour?

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I said, I'm going to hold their attention for an hour. But with God's help, I'm going to hold their attention for an hour.

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And then my daughter chimed in. She says, oh, don't embarrass your grandkids. I was under attack from all sides, you know.

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And I just prayed. And I said, you know what? I'm going in there. I'm going to be obedient. And then the pastor gets up to introduce me.

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And he says, I'm going to tell them that you're Epi and Ariane and Braden's grandfather, because they're triplets. They're 14 and a half years old, smart kids.

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I said, don't do that. You know, I got word from the tower there that I might embarrass somebody.

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I don't want to do that. So, you know, the kids, they're freshmen. They want to be accepted by the seniors. I get it.

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I'll just keep this plain vanilla, and we'll go from there. So he introduces me as a lawyer. Let me tell you something. I made them do one song, and they handed it over to me.

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I had the full Bible collection displayed. And I launched into my apologetic talk. And I felt the anointing, right?

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And they didn't flinch, Chris. They didn't blink. They didn't move an eye. They didn't pass a note.

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They didn't talk. They were riveted on me for one solid hour. It was miraculous. I believe it.

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The headmaster was astonished. But here's the crazy thing, right? We bled over into the next period, and they didn't stop me.

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Other classes started coming in. Teachers started coming in. And then we opened it up to questions, and the place exploded with questions, right?

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These kids, Christian kids that are in Christian school have questions. And I started out by telling them.

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I'm like, why are you here? Your parents make you go? Is that why you're in Christian school? Or do you really believe this stuff?

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And it was dead silence. And I said, let me tell you something. You shouldn't believe anything if you don't know why you believe it.

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And I really gave it to them. Well, let me tell you something. They swarmed the stage. It was unbelievable.

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They had to shut it down eventually. It would still be going. And my grandkids jumped up, and they're like, this is my pop.

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Oh, that must have been a wonderful moment for you.

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It was great. I loved it. But more importantly, I loved it that the kids were engaged.

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They took my phone number. They took my email. They said, when are you speaking next? We want to come. Because let me tell you something.

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This is interesting stuff. It's satisfying to know why you believe this stuff. It's satisfying to know that we have a good basis in truth and in reality for our faith.

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Christianity, like Bertrand Russell claimed, is not a blind leap in the dark.

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That's nonsense. That's what the devil wants you to believe. Christianity is more like little stepping stones in which you get pieces of evidence, and you follow the breadcrumbs to see where they lead.

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And again, the burden is on us to assemble this jigsaw puzzle. But when we assemble it, the picture becomes very clear.

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Actually, it doesn't take as much faith as you might think to believe some of these things.

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Yes, it takes faith to believe people rise from the dead. Yes, it takes faith to believe that Jesus turned the wine from plain old water.

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Yes, it takes faith for that. But it doesn't take faith to think that something amazing happened in the first century, such as to cause

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James, the brother of Jesus, to go from mocking his brother to being lauded as the leader of the

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Jerusalem church. Well, what would account for that change? Something dramatic had to happen. Well, you see it right there in Corinthians, where Paul says afterwards, he appeared to James.

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Yeah, when he rose from the dead, he appeared to James. Listen, if my brother claimed to be God, I think

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I'd have a hard time with it. Right? I think I'd have a difficult time with that. But you know what? If he rose from the dead and said, guess what?

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Here I am. I think I'd probably die for that at that point, too. So all of this stuff is in the book.

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You have to know how to read it. You have to know how to find reasons via faith. And I just, again, want to encourage people to get motivated, to get answers to these questions, and to especially tell the young people.

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Okay, we've got to go to our first commercial break. And, Dan, I don't know about you, I love all things retro.

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Botofuco & Associates and also founder and president of the Historical Bible Society. We are discussing how every

40:26

Christian is an apologist. They are just a good apologist or a bad apologist.

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And a lot of it or most of it has to do with prayerful preparation and study of the

40:40

Scriptures to equip yourself to always be ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within you.

40:47

And our email address, if you have a question, is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

40:53

And we do have Reginald from North Sea, Long Island.

41:00

Never even heard of North Sea, Long Island. And Reginald asks, what has been the most frustrating and difficult confrontation you've had using apologetics to an unbeliever?

41:18

Okay, well, great question, Reginald. And I tell you, it comes up on Quora for me.

41:26

And that's a good opportunity for me to talk about Quora. How do you spell it? I recommend this website,

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Q -U -O -R -A. And what I'm going to ask everyone to do is go on, just type in on your browser, your

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Google browser, type in Quora Daniel Buttafuoco, B -U -T -T -A -F -U -O -C -O,

41:49

Quora Daniel Buttafuoco. And that'll bring you to my blog, basically.

41:55

And right now I have 7 .6 million views. Wow. And almost all of it is defending the faith.

42:03

So you'll pick up a lot of, you know, what we call arguments.

42:09

What lawyers call arguments are, you know, proofs and methodologies for proving your point.

42:15

So we use argument in a different phrase, in a different way than the average person uses that term. You know, most people call an argument is like a heated dispute.

42:23

That's not what we lawyers use the word argument for. Arguments to a lawyer are like, what are your arguments for your case?

42:31

You know, counselor, give me your arguments. And so the arguments that we raise, the points that we raise and defenses that we raise for the faith, you're going to see on my

42:40

Quora post. And the reason I ask you to do that, not only will you learn a lot, but you could actually comment.

42:46

You can join in the fray and you'll pick up some knowledge. And I could use the help, actually, because that gets to your question now.

42:54

And the question is, well, what was the most frustrating? What are the most frustrating things that I encounter?

43:00

Typically, it's the Muslims. The Muslims, when they start to lose the argument, when they start to have their points refuted, they get nasty.

43:12

And then they become very polemical and very hostile. And that's a good time to break it off.

43:20

OK, and I've gotten to the point where I said, look, you know what? I would be if you could see it online, if you go look on Quora, you could see some of the things

43:28

I've said. I said, look, you're not interested in hearing the truth. And so we're going to end this discussion right here. If I thought you were sincerely looking for answers,

43:36

I would continue this discussion, but I could see that you're not. And so I'm going to move on to something else. And that's frustrating because some people just don't want to be confused with the truth.

43:48

And I really mean that. Some people are told out what they have been taught, whether it's right or wrong, mostly wrong.

43:56

And what ends up happening is they've invested in it, they've committed to it, sometimes more committed to it than Christians.

44:06

And as soon as you challenge them and you start to unravel their worldview, which is pretty easy to do, actually, they get nasty and hostile.

44:15

And so that's frustrating because, you know, I take the position that if anything

44:21

I'm believing is not true, I'm ready to discard it. OK, I don't want to believe anything about God that's not true.

44:28

I don't want to believe anything about Scripture that's not true. In fact, I don't want to believe anything about life that's not true.

44:34

OK, I want to know the truth. One of my prayers is, Lord, don't let me be deceived.

44:40

Let me know the truth, even if it's painful. I want to know the truth. And some people like like in the movie,

44:46

A Few Good Men, you know, some people can't handle the truth. Remember the Jack Nicholson character?

44:53

He says some people can't handle the truth. Right. And that really is the case. So that's been my experience.

45:03

But I've also had a lot of really good experiences with people that said, thank you for enlightening me. Or I never saw it that way.

45:09

Or, you know, wow, this is really interesting. I never heard this. And that's what keeps you going, you know, because it's a privilege, really, to be able to bring people the word and to bring people the truth about God.

45:25

And I guess I'm used to it as a lawyer. You know, I have to tell people the truth about their case.

45:31

You know, I often tell them when they ask me about their case. I tell them, would you like the truth or would you like to hear what you want to hear?

45:38

And that usually sobers them up. And the intelligent ones say, no, I really want to know the truth.

45:44

And then I give them the good, the bad and the ugly about this situation, because that's the realm that I operated.

45:52

So, no, nobody, I think very few people just want to hear lies for the sake of lies.

45:59

But, yeah, it's frustrating when it happens, though. And so, yeah, that's the best answer

46:04

I could give to your question. Okay, we have Burton in Farmington, Missouri, who said earlier, you had made a statement that if your brother was claiming to be

46:17

God, you would reject what he was saying. But if he died and rose from the dead, you would believe him.

46:23

But how do you make that statement coincide with the scriptural verse in Luke 16, 31, where we have that famous story where the rich man is in hell and asking

46:38

Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers to warn them.

46:44

And Abraham responds to him, if they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded, even if someone rises from the dead.

46:56

Yeah, that's basically the scriptures. Moses and the prophets is really referring to the script.

47:01

I think I know where he's going with it. First of all, if we were to rewind the tape, I did not say

47:07

I would reject if my brother said he was a God. I said

47:12

I'd find it hard to believe. I'd reject it if any of my brothers said that they were.

47:19

Well, you could extend it even if you want to say reject it. You also have to understand that what

47:25

Jesus was doing was he was using a very common Hebrew idiom of speech, which is hyperbole.

47:38

And he's also referring to the fact that at some point somebody would return from the dead.

47:45

So he's speaking prophetically. He's also speaking with hyperbole. Jesus was a master of hyperbole.

47:51

I mean, I could just turn this question around on the man from Missouri and say, well, if your hand causes you to sin, did you cut it off?

47:59

Or if your eye caused you to sin, you looked at a woman with lust, did you pluck it out? Because it's better to enter the kingdom of heaven lame and blind than to have an eye that sees and a hand that wants you to sin.

48:10

Now, that may be an extreme example, but it sure makes the point. To drive that point home even further as to how nuts that is,

48:18

I actually had a client show up in my office with his hand sewn off. And I thought

48:23

I had a big case. He was waiting in my waiting room when I came out. And I said, can I help you? Come out of my office.

48:29

And I said, let's talk about your hand. What happened? And he said, oh, no, no, this is not from the accident. He goes, I cut my own hand off.

48:35

What? You cut your hand off? He said, well, Jesus said it. My hand caused me to sin to cut it off. I said, how did you do it?

48:41

He said, I did it with a band saw. I said, okay, very nice. And of course, I didn't take the case because I was clearly dealing with a lunatic.

48:49

All right. But the point is, certain things— By the way, I think I met that lunatic.

48:55

Yeah, well, you don't tell the truth. Jesus spoke usually hyperbole.

49:01

And I don't think that Jesus is against evidence or against proof, which is,

49:09

I guess, implied in your question. God is not. He gives us proof. He gives us evidence. He just doesn't sometimes give us as much evidence as we want.

49:17

But in the case of certain people, James being one of them, it took the risen

49:23

Christ to get James to believe. And so I don't think it's right to question God's methodology and what it took to save his own brother.

49:32

And James ultimately went on to become a martyr of the early church and a towering figure in the church of Jerusalem.

49:39

Now, wouldn't you say that— God will move heaven and earth to get you to believe. If you're an elect—and I know you guys are big on elections.

49:48

If you're an elect, God will move heaven and earth to get you to believe. Oh, yeah. I sure do.

49:54

But wouldn't you say, though—in fact, from what I remember, you did come to embrace the doctrine of unconditional election and the major tenets of the

50:05

Reformed faith many years ago. But don't you believe that when all is said and done, a miracle in the heart brought by God is required for somebody to truly believe in spite of any miracle they witness?

50:21

Because even the Pharisees who cried out for the death of Christ, they knew that he was performing miracles.

50:31

There are people that I'm sure that knew that Jesus rose from the dead who still, for selfish reasons, rejected him.

50:43

So isn't that a— I started this discussion by saying that apologetics and evidence is never going to save anybody.

50:53

That was the first thing I said. I said that it ultimately takes a miracle of conversion which is originated by the

51:00

Holy Spirit. It's like it says in Ephesians, for by grace you are saved through faith and not out of yourselves.

51:07

It's the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. And I am so in favor of election that you know that I have a first edition of John Calvin's Institutes of the

51:18

Christian Religion from the 1500s. I have that in my possession. I would not have that book if I didn't revere those teachings, okay?

51:26

But, you know, we don't know who's elect and who's not. And it's our obligation to preach the gospel skillfully and with passion and with evidence to the extent that we could provide it as best we can and let

51:42

God do his work. But, you know what, you still got to sow that seed and you just got to sow it in the right way and let

51:49

God do the rest. So, you know, that's sometimes the problem with getting caught up in the doctrine of divine providence and election and the sovereignty of God is that we can get tempted, and that would be corruption of the doctrine as you know, to say, well, you know what,

52:06

I don't have to do anything because God's going to save who he wants to save. You know what, we certainly don't believe that and God help us if we do because then we're violating the commands of Jesus Christ to go into all the world to preach the gospel.

52:19

Listen, we believe the words of Paul and the words of Peter and the words of Jude are also the word of God.

52:25

And when they tell us to contend for the faith, guess what, we're going to contend for the faith. When they tell us to give reasons or evidence for the hope that is within us, then yes, we're going to do that.

52:37

Even if it comes down to just your testimony, although the testimony by itself sometimes is easily dismissed because, you know, that's a very subjective story.

52:48

You know, if you talk to my mother -in -law, she'll tell you she came to faith in Christ because her son was healed of cerebral palsy.

52:56

You know, and she's convinced that happened and I wasn't there as far as I know it did happen, but it's her subjective story.

53:06

People, some people require a more reasoned approach before they can even consider listening to the gospel.

53:15

And I've had it happen to me countless times, countless times, where I know that I was speaking truth to people and I was answering their questions because, you know,

53:24

Satan is the master of deception and the master of trying to dissect the truth of God and to make us question it.

53:33

It started with me in the garden, has God said, you know? And we have to be able to say, yes,

53:39

God has said, and this is how we know God has said. And so very important that you take to heart what

53:45

I'm saying. You don't have to agree with me, but at least give it a try. Amen.

53:51

And we have to go to our midway break right now. And if you have a question, just send it as soon as you can to chrisorenson at gmail .com.

53:59

chrisorenson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. Don't go away. We'll be right back.

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It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

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Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

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Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland.

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Going back to 2005. One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

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Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity. For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit

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If you visit, have them Joe Roydigan, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, and Mattoy from County Kildare, Ireland, send you.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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01:00:01

Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.

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Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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01:09:00

Christian apologist, and our email address is chrisarnsden at gmail .com.

01:09:06

And to give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence, we have

01:09:15

Chelsea in Cooperstown, New York. And Chelsea said, I remember quite a while ago, when you were a guest on Iron Sharp on Zion Radio, that you had mentioned that one of the proofs of the reliability of the

01:09:31

New Testament is that the first eyewitnesses to Jesus' resurrection were women.

01:09:36

Can you please explain that amazing fact further? Sure, it's a great question.

01:09:42

Thank you. You know, proofs and arguments, getting people to see truth where it's sort of buried, is what an apologist does.

01:09:52

It's a very interesting thing that had occurred in the first century after the resurrection. Gospel accounts indicate that the first people to see

01:10:03

Jesus alive after he rose from the dead were two women. And you say, well, so what?

01:10:09

Well, because you're looking at that with a modern mindset, and that may not seem so dramatic to you.

01:10:15

You know, after all, 50 % of the people in the world are women, basically. But in the first century, to use two women as part of the narrative of the resurrection is absolutely mind -blowing.

01:10:28

Because one of the reckless and wrong and evil charges that the proponents of the gospel make is that the gospel is a contrived story.

01:10:40

It's not a true story, you know. There are people who claim that it's just a fairy tale, right?

01:10:46

And that this fairy tale was initiated by a group of men that wanted to sort of honor the name of Jesus after he died, and they're willing to die for that.

01:10:58

Well, first of all, it's ridiculous to think that anyone would want to die for a lie. What they know is a lie.

01:11:05

If Jesus had not risen from the grave, the movement of faith known as Christianity would have died right then and there with that.

01:11:13

But it didn't. In fact, it spread like wildfire across the ancient

01:11:18

Roman world. You can even see that in Luke's reference to Theophilus, who was certainly puzzled by what was going on.

01:11:25

He wanted to know, what is this thing called Christianity that's literally spread like wildfire?

01:11:31

And, you know, Christianity spread without any earthly benefit to those who embraced it.

01:11:37

Unlike Islam, Christianity, there was no reason to become a Christian except for the fact that it was true.

01:11:44

I mean, if you became a Christian, your goods were confiscated, you were persecuted, you were driven out of your homes and out of your town, you were tortured and, in extreme cases, killed.

01:11:55

Right? So it was no good reason to be a Christian other than the fact that it was true. And so that brings us to your question.

01:12:03

Why would you use women as witnesses to the resurrection in the first century if you were going to contrive a false narrative about the resurrection of a man called

01:12:14

Jesus of Nazareth? Well, you wouldn't, for the simple reason that it was illegal for witnesses to be women in the first century.

01:12:22

They were not allowed to testify in court. And that's sort of mind -blowing to us because today, you know, especially in the

01:12:30

United States, all men and women are created equal. And, you know, we have this big equality thing going on.

01:12:36

We don't even like to acknowledge the differences between the sexes, which there are. But, of course, everybody's equal all the time, no matter what.

01:12:43

And that's sort of our mantra here in the U .S. And the idea that a woman can testify is silly.

01:12:49

In fact, I can tell you from my own experience in court that women not only make good witnesses, they make the very best witnesses because they tend to remember all the details, and they're very observant in many cases, where men just tend to groan and mumble and grunt on witnesses.

01:13:09

So women, I would much prefer to have a woman witness. But in the first century, that was not the case.

01:13:14

It was illegal for a woman to testify, which means it would be preposterous to contrive a story and have as your main initial witnesses two women, one of whom was a prostitute.

01:13:25

I mean, think about how silly that would be. In other words, it lends credibility to the story for the simple reason that if you were making it up, you would never use women as witnesses.

01:13:36

There are other things like that in the gospel account, right? The fact that you have three different stories in the gospels about the resurrection, right?

01:13:49

In one witness account, it talks about two angels at the tomb. In another eyewitness account, it talks about one angel at the tomb.

01:13:57

Now, if you were going to contrive a story, in fact, the mark of a contrived story is that everybody says the same thing.

01:14:04

But the fact is one witness saw one angel, one witness saw two angels. Also, the fact that there are negative things in the gospels that are regarding people that are in positions of power and authority, like Peter denying

01:14:20

Jesus. I mean, did Peter really want that narrative in the gospel for all eternity to know that he denied his best friend

01:14:30

Christ, the one he promised he would never deny? Everyone will deny you, Lord, except me. And then

01:14:35

Peter denies Jesus to a servant girl, like a little coward. Why is that in there?

01:14:41

Well, because it's true. That's why it's in there. And so you see, we have the disciples fighting with one another.

01:14:48

We have Peter denying Christ. We have all kinds of negative information about the leaders of the faith,

01:14:57

Paul and Peter, in a heated argument over grace and over the

01:15:03

Judaizers. And all of that screams that this is a true story.

01:15:09

All of that screams that this is a factual account. As a trial lawyer, I love this, because it's a mark of truthfulness when everything is not exactly sort of contrived.

01:15:24

And so this is why I think it's a wonderful point that you raised. Great. Well, I would like you to, because we only have 15 more minutes where you can—

01:15:34

I'll stay on a little longer, Chris. Oh, yeah? Okay, great. I'll stay on— For the full two hours?

01:15:41

I'll probably go to quarter to six. Okay. All righty. Well, I'd like you to make sure that you address some of the most primary areas of apologetics and your approaches to that science when it comes to engaging skeptics and opponents of the faith.

01:16:05

I want to make sure that those things that are key in your heart and mind regarding this subject are said by you before we run out of time today.

01:16:15

Sure. One of the things that I really want to get through to your listeners is the need for apologetics for the layperson, that the fact, as I said earlier, that the average person, the average

01:16:29

Christian, should be able to engage in some form of apologetic argument.

01:16:35

Again, the way that we use the argument is in terms of contending for the truth. You know, the

01:16:43

Bible says in 2 Corinthians 10, verse 3, For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does.

01:16:52

The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.

01:17:01

We demolish arguments. Remember that. Underline that in your Bible. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God.

01:17:12

And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. What is Paul saying here when he says we demolish arguments?

01:17:20

Well, how do you demolish arguments? Well, you demolish arguments with a counterargument, with the truth in it, right?

01:17:27

That's what we do. And I know there's been some pushback here on this idea of apologetics, maybe because people are intimidated, they don't want to work so hard, they don't want the burden of having to defend the faith.

01:17:40

I'm sorry for that, but the Bible says what it says. It says contend for the faith.

01:17:45

And here it says we need to demolish arguments. We need to raise counterarguments and demolish arguments with the truth.

01:17:56

You know, you just had, as one of your advertisers, one of your sponsors, I didn't catch the name, but he says,

01:18:04

I think very poignantly, we are a devil -fighting church, right? How do you fight devils?

01:18:10

You don't use bazookas and tanks, right? You fight devils with the truth. You fight devils with getting the correct point of view across, with getting the right argument to take hold in the minds and the hearts of the listeners, you know?

01:18:27

And another pastor said, the pastor in Arizona said, in another sponsorship, he said, you just played, he said, we don't like people to be led astray on the

01:18:37

Internet, and Iron Sharp and Zion Radio is one of the few places that can confidently direct people where they won't be led astray.

01:18:45

He said that, right? So what is it we're trying to do? We're trying to prevent people from being led astray.

01:18:52

And the way we do that is with the truth. And that's why apologetics is important. Let me say one more thing.

01:18:58

Most apologetics today, sad to say, is going on at very high intellectual levels.

01:19:05

It's experts talking to experts and debating one another. And, you know, James White, I'm a big fan, right?

01:19:12

But James White has been in my house. I love James. I've given him gifts. And he will argue with the best intellectuals on the other side, and that's done at a very high level.

01:19:24

What I'm saying is slightly different. I'm saying we got to take these arguments, these points, these points of evidence that we have, and we got to break them down so that the average person can use them, right?

01:19:38

It does us no good if you have intellectuals in ivory towers conversing back and forth, writing gigantic books to one another, refuting each other's points, if the average person, the average

01:19:51

Christian is not hearing this stuff and being able to make it part of his arsenal to defend the faith.

01:19:57

And that's where I'm coming from. What I'm saying is that it's incumbent on every believer, even high school kids, to be able to say why they believe, to explain why they believe the

01:20:09

Bible is the Word of God, to explain why they believe in Jesus, to explain that they believe it's historical, that they believe it's the truth, to explain why they believe it's the truth, to explain the

01:20:20

Bible's accuracy, to defend the transmission of the Bible, right? You know, you have books written like Bart Ehrman's book,

01:20:28

Misquoting Jesus, right? Which is a flat -out lie, even in the title, right? I mean, it is implying very strongly and giving ammunition to the enemies of the faith, including

01:20:39

Muslims, to say, oh, the New Testament is corrupted. We can't trust the New Testament.

01:20:45

But when you really unpack his arguments, they fall flat on their face. Everybody knows that nothing he says matters.

01:20:53

No matter how smart this guy is, he's made billions of dollars telling people that the New Testament is corrupted, and it's ridiculous.

01:21:00

He's only sensationalizing what everybody, every biblical scholar has known for centuries, right?

01:21:07

Namely, that there are some copying errors in the transmission of the Bible. But no, guess what?

01:21:13

We know exactly where those errors are. We know because no two scribes made the same errors.

01:21:19

So all we had to do was cross -reference the 27 ,000 manuscripts, which is so important.

01:21:24

We've done that even before computers. And we know exactly where somebody or a scribe skipped the line or left out a word or added a pronoun.

01:21:32

So his argument is just sensationalizing for the general public, saying we misquoted

01:21:39

Jesus. That's nonsense. No doctrine of the Christian church is in dispute. No teaching of Jesus is in dispute.

01:21:46

Everything is grounded firmly in the truth of what we have. And we have like 99 .9

01:21:53

% accuracy of the New Testament. There's something like 40 lines of the New Testament that are actually in doubt.

01:21:59

And none of them really matter that much. So this is what I mean by apologetics and getting it into the hands of the average person.

01:22:07

When your kid goes to college, when the professor says, you know, there are mistakes in the New Testament, you better be able to say something like, yeah, so what?

01:22:14

We know where they are. What's your point? And that's the right answer to that, right? You don't need to be an intellectual.

01:22:20

You don't need to be a lawyer. You don't need to be a scholar to just be able to shut down the lies that are being advanced against the gospel.

01:22:29

Yeah, even your daughter was used of God to humble her non -believing professor.

01:22:39

Right. It's basically demolishing arguments, just as the Bible says we ought to do. So to reiterate, when we say that every

01:22:50

Christian is an apologist, that does not mean that we are saying that God commands every believer to know the original languages of the

01:23:04

Bible, although that would be extremely beneficial to anybody. It's not a requirement.

01:23:10

It doesn't mean that we are to be as academically inclined or as brilliant as some of the apologists that we know that are world -famous theologians and authors and debaters.

01:23:26

It just means that if we love Christ, if we love God, and if we love lost people who we want to see in heaven, we're going to make ourselves as familiar with the perfect, inerrant

01:23:43

Word of God as we possibly can. We are to cherish it, love it, study it.

01:23:48

Am I making sense here? Yeah. I mean, if you go on Quora, you're going to see people saying that the

01:23:55

New Testament was written in the second century or the third century. And you have to be able to know and to say, no, it wasn't.

01:24:03

The entire New Testament was completed before 70 AD, which, by the way, is increasingly the position of biblical scholars, because none of it mentions the destruction of the temple.

01:24:13

And it would be ridiculous to have a Bible in which

01:24:19

Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple. He said within a generation it's going to happen and for no one to mention it.

01:24:26

And not only that, when you have in Hebrews or the writer of Hebrews making the case like a good lawyer does saying that, you know what, we are the recipients of a new and better covenant.

01:24:37

The blood of bulls and goats could never take away the sins of mankind. And Jesus is the once and for all sacrifice.

01:24:45

Well, he might want to mention. And by the way, we don't have a temple or an altar upon which to make those sacrifices.

01:24:51

Right. Because that's the only place you could make them. Right. He never mentions that, which leads to the obvious conclusion that when that was written, the temple hadn't been destroyed.

01:25:01

Not only that, but John, who everybody says that Revelation is much later, based on a misreading of something that Eusebius said with the

01:25:09

Mesian exile, John. And there's a lot of scholarship to unpack that. You don't have to be an expert. But know this.

01:25:16

John said these things must soon take place. Right. And he talks about the beast, which clearly refers to Nero.

01:25:23

He was talking about Nero. He's talking to first century Christians. He was talking to people.

01:25:29

And he never mentions the destruction of the temple, which would fit right into all the apocalyptic writings.

01:25:35

He never mentions it. Why? Because it didn't happen. And so don't be misled by so -called scholars that say things like, you know, the

01:25:42

Bible was written later. When Paul was writing Corinthians, he says there were 500 witnesses, most of whom were still alive.

01:25:50

That means he was writing it very early. Right. Because people did not live long in the first century.

01:25:55

If you were 30 years old, you were considered old in the first century. People got married at 13 years old.

01:26:01

So Paul says there were 500 witnesses to the resurrected Christ. Most of whom were still alive.

01:26:07

You better believe that that was written fairly early and very close in time to the resurrection. Right. And there are a lot of clues like that in the

01:26:14

Bible. You just have to not only read it and understand it, like Chris, you just said, but also to understand the background and the context and the history behind that.

01:26:24

And that's what helps you to be a more successful apologist. But even a child can be an apologist.

01:26:30

Right. When a child says, Jesus loves me, this I know, or the Bible tells me so, that's a form of apologetics.

01:26:37

He's saying, the child is saying, I know Jesus loves me because the Bible tells me.

01:26:43

Now, an intellectual or a smarter or more mature person would say, well, how do we know we can trust the

01:26:49

Bible? But you have an answer for that. We have answers for all of the questions. You should try to get to know them.

01:26:57

Amen. Let's see here.

01:27:03

We do have another listener question.

01:27:11

We have Gail in West Orange, New Jersey.

01:27:18

And Gail says, one of the most difficult things when you are facing somebody who is an opponent of the faith, especially if they happen to be proud and arrogant, is to approach your discussion with them with humility, meekness, and gentleness as the

01:27:41

Scriptures command that we do. Do you have any counsel on how to do this? Because many times

01:27:47

I lose my mind and join in the shouting match.

01:27:54

Oh, I can so totally relate to what she's saying. It's not easy to listen to some of the things that people say, especially when they make no sense.

01:28:05

But I think it's like anything else in Christianity, right? We live in a backwards universe, right?

01:28:12

It's a polar opposite universe, right? The Christian world, right? We receive by giving.

01:28:18

We are first by being last. We fight hate with love.

01:28:25

We don't fight fire with fire, right? We fight fire with water, right? We fight hate with love.

01:28:31

The Christian world, everything is sort of backwards, right? And so the same thing with what you just said,

01:28:40

Gail. If somebody is arrogant and hostile, the best way to disarm them is to be the exact opposite, to be humble and to be gentle, as the

01:28:54

Bible says. And, you know, you let the Holy Spirit speak to you. There's times when you shouldn't say anything because you know it's not going to matter, you know?

01:29:05

And the Bible clearly says we shouldn't cast our pearls before swine. And if somebody is just looking to fight with you or argue with you, as I said earlier, there's times when

01:29:15

I'll just walk away and say, look, you're not interested in hearing the truth. But a lot of times I will compliment them on a question that they made.

01:29:25

You know, if somebody asks a sincere question, I'll start by saying something like, well, that's a very intelligent question.

01:29:32

And if that's a sincere question, I'd like to try to answer that for you. You know, another big thing when you're engaging in apologetics is to be very careful to listen to what the person is saying.

01:29:43

What often happens in some of these discussions is that people start talking at each other and over each other in a worst case scenario, and then really nothing is accomplished.

01:29:53

It's much better to try to listen to them and understand their point. Understand what it is that they are struggling with that's preventing them from letting the truth take root in their heart, right?

01:30:06

Did they lose somebody? You know, how many times have we seen or heard stories where somebody's rejected

01:30:12

God because of some tragedy that they had in their life and they blame God for that, right? You know,

01:30:17

God can't be good because he allowed this to happen to me. Or he can't be all powerful because if he's all good, he could have stopped that and he didn't.

01:30:27

You know, sometimes you got to share the hurt with them and you got to empathize with them. And it's really important to really listen to what they say.

01:30:35

That's a basic trial lawyer mistake too. When I see lawyers trying cases sometimes, they're not listening to what the witness is saying.

01:30:43

They just want to question them and they want to talk over them. Listen to what the witness is saying. Listen to what the person you're engaging with is saying.

01:30:52

Take it to heart and try to understand it from their point of view. What that will do will make them, it'll force them to give you the opportunity to be heard because once they know you're listening, they're going to want to hear your response.

01:31:05

So I think that's the best advice I could give in that kind of situation. Cool. Amethyst in Jupiter, Florida wants to know, how often, if ever, do you utilize

01:31:20

Christian apologetics in a secular courtroom trial? Well, in a trial, it doesn't come up in a trial because we're focused on the case, but apologetics comes up in my life every day.

01:31:35

It's constant. There's always something out there that gives you an opportunity to put a biblical worldview spin on it.

01:31:45

It could be anything. It could be a movie. It could be a sporting event. I wish

01:31:52

I could think of something off the top of my head, but just this morning, I weighed in on something where I just quoted

01:32:00

Jesus just in passing. I was making a comment on a news audit. It was a news audit.

01:32:05

I don't remember exactly what I said, but I quoted Jesus as saying that the truth is what matters.

01:32:11

And he said that the truth would make you free. A lot of people don't know that even when you say in politics, a house divided against itself cannot stand, they're quoting

01:32:20

Abraham Lincoln. I like to remind people that Jesus is the one who said that. Lincoln was quoting Jesus.

01:32:26

So the more you could bring Jesus in, just sort of matter of factly, the more you could bring the

01:32:32

Bible in, sort of matter of factly. You talk to a Jewish person, you say, well, the original

01:32:37

Christians were Jews. Did you know that? Did you know the early church was so Jewish that the first issue that the church council faced with was whether you could be a non -Jew and be allowed to believe in Jesus?

01:32:50

That's recorded history. It's the council in Jerusalem. And they usually shock you with that, because they think

01:32:55

Christianity is just Catholicism, and it's non -Jewish people, it's

01:33:01

Gentiles only. No, the earliest Christians, Jesus' disciples and very earliest

01:33:06

Christians were all Jewish. So it was so Jewish, they weren't even sure that they could let Gentiles in, because the

01:33:12

Jews were big fans of the Gentiles, which is what precipitated the fight between Peter and Paul.

01:33:19

So you could find a way to inject Christ into anything and to do it artfully, to do it in a sort of a cool way, where you don't sound like a lunatic, you sound like somebody just, this is very real to you.

01:33:34

Jesus is so much a part of my life that I find Jesus in everything. It could be anything, and I find

01:33:42

Jesus in it. And the more you start to be sensitive to that, the more the stuff sort of organically will happen.

01:33:49

And I would encourage you to do that. Yeah, and I'm sure that you utilize the main principles, the key principles of Christian apologetics, even in a secular court trial, because when you're dealing with things like truth, when you're dealing with things like fairness, integrity, justice, and we could go on and on and on, the things that are going to frame your whole platform and your mind and heart are

01:34:25

Christian principles. Well, I mean, even the concept of cross -examination, the right to confront witnesses, which is in the

01:34:36

Constitution, that is a Christian, certainly a

01:34:41

Judeo -Christian principle. The first ever cross -examination recorded in history is

01:34:47

Daniel in the book of Susanna and the Elders. You remember the story, right, where the two elders spied a beautiful woman bathing, and these were supposed to be religious guys, and they were overcome with lust, and they raped her, right?

01:35:00

It's in one of the apocryphal books, Susanna and the Elders. And who did they bring out to defend the woman?

01:35:05

Because she's on trial for adultery, right? They blame her. They said that she was consensual.

01:35:11

In the meantime, they raped her. And there's this poor woman violated and weeping and crying, and on trial for her life, and she's got two religious guys against her pointing fingers at her, saying that she was complicit in this when she was raped.

01:35:26

And so what does Daniel do? Well, Daniel separates the witnesses. It's exactly what we do in court.

01:35:32

And he cross -examines them, and their stories unravel, showing the power of cross -examination.

01:35:38

You know, God's not afraid of the truth. God wants the truth to come out. We're not afraid of questions as Christians, because a good witness gets stronger on cross -examination.

01:35:47

You know, after Daniel, the prophet, cross -examined those elders, their stories unraveled, the woman was vindicated, and they were the ones who ended up with the death for rape.

01:35:59

And so jurisprudence, modern jurisprudence, is firmly grounded on truth, firmly grounded on the

01:36:06

Bible. And this idea of cross -examination also comes up in another context.

01:36:12

I was having a discussion with an atheist friend of mine, a lawyer. And we were having a nice discussion, and he says, you know,

01:36:18

Dan, he goes, I could believe the witnesses to the gospel if I had a chance to cross -examine.

01:36:24

They were never cross -examined. I'm like, Lou, are you kidding? They were never cross -examined. They were cross -examined to death.

01:36:31

They were cross -examined to torture. I cross -examine people for a living. I ask 10 questions, and they unravel like a cheap suit.

01:36:41

You know, they're completely unwind if they're lying. All it takes is a few skillfully asked questions, and these witnesses fall apart.

01:36:50

Could you imagine if I approached them with an instrument of torture? If I approached them with boiling oil or with a club or with a flaying knife or a whip?

01:37:02

Of course, people will tell you the truth under those circumstances. And you know what? Not any of them recanted their testimony that they had seen the resurrected

01:37:13

Christ. Who was the founder of Prison Fellowship?

01:37:20

Charles Coulson. Chuck Coulson. Chuck Coulson said when he was on trial, when they were being investigated for the

01:37:29

Watergate scandal, he said there were like 10 of us that knew really what was going on, and we couldn't keep our stories together.

01:37:35

And we were all major league intellects, educated guys, and had every reason to get our stories straight so that we wouldn't go to jail.

01:37:45

He said, and we couldn't keep our stories together. He goes, how could the disciples, how could the apostles keep their stories together under torture?

01:37:54

Again, another indicia of truthfulness, of accuracy of the gospel account.

01:38:00

The fact that under torture, none of them recanted their stories or their testimony. Amazing. Well, we have to go to our final break.

01:38:09

And if you have a question for Dan about a few, go send it in immediately, because we are rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:38:17

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back. Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church.

01:38:25

We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.

01:38:31

Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.

01:38:38

We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.

01:38:51

We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt

01:38:57

Christ. This is Pastor David Reese of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.

01:39:03

Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.

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01:39:19

I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, a

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01:39:56

At Lindbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired word of God, inerrant in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.

01:40:13

We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.

01:40:30

Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

01:40:38

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01:40:43

Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit LindbrookBaptist .org.

01:40:50

That's L -Y -N -BrookBaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

01:41:03

It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

01:41:17

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

01:41:27

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

01:41:37

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01:41:43

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

01:41:55

Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

01:42:06

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

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For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

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Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you.

01:42:48

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

01:43:16

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

01:43:22

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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01:43:46

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01:43:54

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

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01:44:16

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That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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01:47:49

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01:49:23

Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, the senior partner and founder of the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates.

01:49:31

If you're the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the United States, call 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit

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01:49:51

Well, we're now back, Dan, with the final segment of today's program. I want you to make sure that all of the major points of apologetics that you intended to say today are spoken by you before we run out of time.

01:50:07

Well, I mean, the best thing I can say is that, again, I want to encourage your listeners to go on Quora.

01:50:16

And if you type in Quora, Q -U -O -R -A, and then my name, Daniel Buttafuoco, B -U -T -T -A,

01:50:24

F as in Frank, U -O -C -O, you will pull up, oh,

01:50:29

I mean, 1 ,800 answers that I've given on apologetics. For a total viewership of 7 .6

01:50:38

million content views, 104 ,000 this month alone. And why

01:50:43

I bring that up is because you're going to see there the exact kind of questions that I answer. And many of them you might even try to answer.

01:50:52

And, you know, with the Internet, it's easy. You may know something and you may want to polish up your answer.

01:50:57

You can go to do an Internet search and brush up on some of the things and just post an answer.

01:51:04

And I think as you do it, you'll get better and better at it. And you'll be laying a treasure in heaven because you'll be addressing the pressing questions of the age from all over the world.

01:51:14

Quora is an international website. And there's every point of view imaginable there.

01:51:20

You're going to be shocked at some of the things you hear and see. You're going to be shocked at the level of big biblical ignorance.

01:51:28

Actually, that shouldn't shock you. But, you know, you'll be able to correct some of these things and you'll be able to speak truth to people.

01:51:34

Just to give you an example, I'm looking at my most recent posts. Who is Paul in the

01:51:39

Bible? Is he a real person or did he just write letters to different churches? I wrote, is he a real person or did he just write different letters?

01:51:49

Think about that sentence for a while. Do you think a great person wrote the letters? A dead person, a ghost?

01:51:56

Yes, Paul was a real person. And yes, he wrote the letters. And so on. Here's one.

01:52:02

What is the estimated age of the Gilgamesh tablet? Is it believed to be older than the biblical book of Genesis?

01:52:08

That's a little bit technical. I answered that. How about this one? What are the reasons for believing in one and only holy book?

01:52:16

In other words, why do we believe the Bible, not the Koran? That's a good one, right? I answered that one.

01:52:22

How do translation choices in religious texts influence people's beliefs? How about this one?

01:52:28

How has the digital age changed how we preserve and interpret historical texts? How about this one?

01:52:35

Do people typically read every single word of their religion's holy book, even if there are sections that may not align with modern society's values?

01:52:44

I wrote, are you kidding? You think it matters whether the Bible aligns with modern society's values?

01:52:51

In the case of the Bible, first of all, the problem is that Christians are not reading it, let alone every single word. I wish they were.

01:52:57

If they were, they would quickly realize that the words of Jesus don't change with fashion or with styles. And then I unpack all that.

01:53:04

In other words, it's a great chance for you to give your testimony, to tell stories, you know, and give the

01:53:11

Christian point of view. What makes religious texts written thousands of years ago still relevant to modern readers?

01:53:18

How about that question? And actually, you'd be surprised. Some people want to argue, but some people flat -out compliment me and thank me and upvote me.

01:53:26

And I'm not looking for the upvotes. I could care less. I just want to get the truth out there. You know, it's more important that I'm pleasing

01:53:33

God in what I'm doing than I am in winning arguments. And I don't focus on winning arguments. I focus on combating lies, distortions, and half -truths with the truth of the gospel or the truth of history or the truth of, you know, whatever

01:53:48

Jesus taught. And so I think that we all should be involved in this on some level. So I encourage you to give it a try.

01:53:55

Don't be afraid. Certainly don't say anything if you're not sure of it, you know. But is this idea that only experts should engage in apologetics?

01:54:05

Absolutely not. I think the plumber should engage on a plumber's level with the plumber next to him on apologetics and so on with the clerk sitting in a cubicle next to another clerk, and so should a cop with another cop.

01:54:20

And everyone in their own way and in their own language should be able to give a reason for the hope that is within them, should be able to contend for the faith, should be able to contradict the lies of the age.

01:54:32

And I think that's incumbent upon a Christian to do that. And I think you're commanded to do it. And hopefully—and

01:54:38

I say this with humility and prayerfully— hopefully that you've gotten something from this and that will motivate you to do that, because that is what is needed today.

01:54:49

Okay, we've got time for one more question, an anonymous question that says,

01:54:56

How do you bounce back after being humiliated by an opponent of the faith when this person just ties you up in knots and leaves you speechless?

01:55:07

I know that the obvious answer is to delve back into the Scriptures and be more faithful and prayerful in your study of them, but is there any other way where you can get your spine back and re -approach people after you have been embarrassed by not being adequately prepared?

01:55:29

Wow, what a question. I'll tell you something, that's a good one. It's been my experience, actually.

01:55:34

That's how I got involved in this. I'll tell you a quick story. I'm trying to make it brief because we're running out of time.

01:55:41

I was at a trial lawyer party about 30 years ago, and it turns out that one of the guys

01:55:49

I was trying cases for, a friend of mine, I didn't know, was a really, really devout atheist.

01:55:58

And he started giving me these questions publicly at a party, and the party split in two, where I had people in my corner rooting for me and people in his corner rooting for him.

01:56:10

And honestly, I felt what you're saying. I felt humiliated. I felt like I didn't do a great job.

01:56:17

I felt like my exact feeling was, I know I'm a good lawyer. I know I'm an accomplished lawyer.

01:56:23

I wasn't even at the time. I said, and yet I did a terrible job in defending who should be my biggest client or my best client is the

01:56:32

Lord. I felt like I was totally inadequate to the task. I didn't know the answers to the questions.

01:56:39

I was tongue -tied. I was humiliated. I left there bitterly disappointed in my own response.

01:56:46

And I hear what you're saying, okay? And you know what? I just applied myself to learning the arguments.

01:56:52

It's the same arguments that come up all the time. And one of the things you can do is to be very humble when you talk to people, not arrogant.

01:57:01

And you know what? If they ask you a question that you don't know the answer to, you say, I don't know the answer to that, but I'm sure there's an answer.

01:57:08

I'll get back to you. Well, to make a long story short, the same individual, 30 years later, said to me,

01:57:14

Dan, you've answered every one of my questions and you've demolished every one of my arguments. And he said, however,

01:57:22

I'm still not a believer, he says. And I said, look, I get it. Because again, back to the original point, only the

01:57:29

Holy Spirit can change someone's heart. But I literally had left this man speechless. And why that's important, even if I didn't change his heart, because I can't,

01:57:40

I was able to impact the people who have heard our discussion. Because there's always bystanders to these discussions.

01:57:46

And really, it's important how you look to the bystanders.

01:57:52

So that's why it's really important to not lose your cool. It's really important to be humble.

01:57:58

And it's very appropriate to say, you know what? I don't know the answer to that question. It's a good question.

01:58:03

I'll get back to you on that. Because that shows transparency. That shows honesty.

01:58:09

Again, it's not about winning arguments. It's about defending the faith to the best of your ability and to be able to say, well, you don't know something.

01:58:17

I don't know the answer, but I'll get back to you. If you try that and you practice it enough, pretty soon you'll find that you're proficient and you'll be able to handle it on your feet.

01:58:26

Well, don't forget about Dan's phone number and website if you are in the need of his legal services, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, and also 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.

01:58:36

The Historical Bible Society can be found at historicalbiblesociety .org, historicalbiblesociety .org.

01:58:43

And look for him on Quora and type in Dan Buttafuoco. It's been a joy to have you on the program again, and I look forward to your frequent return, brother.

01:58:53

I love you, brother. And one other thing, as an afterthought, I wrote a book called Consider the Evidence, which outlines a lot of these arguments.

01:59:00

You can get it on Amazon. We make no money on it. That's not what it's about. Consider the Evidence by Dan Buttafuoco, available on Amazon.

01:59:07

Great. Well, God bless you. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater