SRR 126 Presidential Politics & the Christian Vote

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Justification by Faith Alone and Polemical Christian Speech

The anathema of God was for those who denied justification by faith alone. When that is at stake, we need to be on the battlefield exposing the air and combating the air.

We are unabashedly, unashamedly Clarkian. And so the next few statements that I'm going to make, I'm probably going to step on all of the Vantillian toes at the same time. And this is what we do at Simple Riff around the radio, you know.

We are polemical and polarizing Jesus style.

I would first say that to characterize what we do as bashing is itself bashing. It's not hate. It's history. It's not bashing. It's the Bible. Jesus said, Woe to you when men speak well of you, for their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way, as opposed to blessed are you when you have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness.

It is on. We're taking the gloves off. It's time to battle.

All right. Welcome to Simple Riff around the radio where the Bible alone and the Bible in its entirety is applied to all of faith and life. My name is Tim and I'm joined with Carlos Montijo and Hiram Diaz.

Well, if you've been watching the news lately, you might be scratching your head wondering what is happening to our country. It seems that our country hasn't been this divided since the Civil War. In fact, there's even talk of possibly another actual Civil War in the near future.

Now, hopefully that doesn't happen and we aren't here to tell you the future. So we can't really say one way or the other, but any discerning Christian can see what's really going on. We are not just in a political battle, but a spiritual battle.

And the inability for people to discern truth from error is a mark of God's judgment. As Christians, we should all be concerned, not fearful, but concerned. So tonight we want to talk about the issue of voting and politics.

We don't believe that this issue is outside of our Christian thought. So where does this take us? How should we think through this? Should we be like the Amish and just give up on everything? Or is it OK to vote?

And if so, how should we vote? Tonight we want to look at these issues and just consider them from a Christian perspective. The two overarching questions that we want to tackle tonight is, is it OK for a Christian to vote for Trump?

Should we vote for Trump? Or is it OK for a Christian to vote for Biden? So Hiram, let me give you the opportunity to go first. When we were talking through this issue this past week, you took a bit of a stronger position than I think Carlos did.

I want to ask the first question, is it OK for us to vote for Trump? Should we vote for Trump? And earlier you had told me that you don't think it's just OK, but that it's actually necessary. So thanks for joining me tonight.

And I just want to give you the opportunity to jump in here.

Well, yeah, my position is that it's necessary. And the reason why is simply because there are only two real candidates that are going to make it to the finals, if you want to put it that way, and that's Trump and Biden.

And if Trump doesn't get elected, then Biden is going to be elected. If Biden gets elected, then it's all downhill from there. Biden is opposed to Christianity. It's not only the religious aspect that we're looking at, the spiritual aspect, but it's also the fact that he's sold out to China.

And he is against American freedom in a number of different ways. He's corrupt. He comes from a corrupt administration. So it's not good. The objections that I've seen to Trump, voting for Trump, are based on evaluations of his character.

They say, well, he has a bad character and I can't support someone that has a sinful character like that. But that's not really the issue. Somebody put it this way on my Facebook friends. They said, what's more important when you vote, policies or personality?

And there are people that are actually saying personality. It's not about personality. It's about what is good. It's about policy, essentially. What's going to benefit all of us, what's going to benefit our children in the long run.

It's not about the personality. Biden's platform, as well as Biden's character, are both thoroughly corrupt. We can say that Trump is not a believer. We can say that he's corrupt as well. But the things that he is fighting for, nationalism as opposed to globalism, bringing industry back to America, making the country stronger than it was under Obama and under previous presidents, those are all things that are very good.

And that's something that the platform or the party itself, the Republican Party, is supportive of. So, yeah, Trump's not the best guy in the world, but Biden isn't the best guy in the world either. And the platform that he is speaking on or the party that he's speaking from is worse.

That's really the long and the short of it. It's necessary because he's the only other option that's there that's going to uphold values that we uphold as Christians. And we've seen that he does that.

He's done it numerous times and he's still doing it now.

Yeah, I think that you're right. I don't know if Trump is a Christian. I hope that he is. I saw recently that he proclaimed that Jesus was more important than he was or more famous or something like that.

We'll put that clip in the show notes so everybody can watch it. So, I really hope he seems genuine. But a lot of people are like that and they don't understand the gospel. But I think that you're absolutely right.

And one of the things that we can look at is the hostility of the Democrat Party to Christian values is on full display with Amy Coney Barrett being elected to the Supreme Court justices. And Amy Coney Barrett is a Roman Catholic.

We don't believe that Roman Catholics understand the gospel correctly and the gospel is what you need to be saved. So, we wouldn't just automatically say that she's a Christian. We would refrain from that because, again, she is Roman Catholic.

And Roman Catholicism does not have a saving gospel. But I think that it would be okay to say that she even Roman Catholics can hold on to Christian values. But I think that it's become very clear in watching the Democrats oppose her specifically because of her Christian values.

You know, it's just obvious that they do not they're hostile towards Christianity. And I think that that's something that we have to consider. I don't think that Trump I don't know if Trump is a Christian but it's obvious that he is more on board with Christian values.

What about you, Carlos? Where are you at in this whole debate? Have you voted yet or are you going to vote for Trump? What do you think?

No, I haven't voted yet. I do plan to. And I think there's so there's obviously a lot at stake on this election. And I've wrestled with the question of is it appropriate to vote for You know, there's really no question about pretty much anybody on the Democratic Party.

That's just out of the question. Christians have no place whatsoever voting for anybody on the left because And it's not like it's a tricky issue. It's not like it's a complicated issue.

It's black and white. Yeah, I think that's an easy I want to get into that. But first I want to know if you think that it's acceptable, first of all, for a Christian to vote for Trump. So let's talk about that one first because you're getting into a lot of the other issues that I do want to talk about.

But I want to know, is it okay for a Christian to vote for Trump?

Well, yeah, I was trying to chip away at the low-hanging fruit first. The issue of Trump does require some, I think, careful homework and investigation. I didn't vote for him the first time because I didn't like what he said about LGBTs.

He said some things that just sounded like he was way too much in favor of that. And for that was one of the primary reasons why I did not vote for him the first time around. But now seeing him come to his four years, I think it's appropriate and it's important to also give credit where credit is due.

And in many respects, Trump has done a very good job as president of the United States. And I've seen a lot of he's done a lot of things that have benefited our country and have benefited enabled us to better live quiet and peaceable lives like the Bible says.

Well, let me jump in here because I really appreciate what you're saying. And it sounds like you're on the same page as me because I I don't know if you remember this, Carlos. We actually did an episode where we talked about voting last election.

And Hiram wasn't with us at that time. But one of the things that we talked about was the old idea that, oh, you're just voting for the lesser of two evils. And then we pointed out, like, what is voting for the lesser of two evils?

Well, that's voting for evil, right? But I've changed my position and I'm willing to say that I look at it differently now. And I voted for Trump. And I don't believe that I'm voting for the lesser of two evils.

I believe that Trump has actually done some good. And he actually has policies that are good. And so I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils. I honestly believe that I'm voting for some of the good that he's done.

And it sounds like that's what you're saying. Am I right?

Yeah, basically. I think I would still take the view that we shouldn't vote for the lesser of two evils. That's not that's never appropriate, I don't think. I don't think you can justify that biblically.

And

Well, do you think that that's do you think I'm saying that you can vote for the lesser of two evils? I'm saying that Trump is not the lesser of two evils. I think that because that implies that he's evil.

I'm saying that I actually think that he's done some good.

I know, yeah.

And therefore

I know.

Okay, because I'm not saying that we can vote for the lesser of two evils either. If it's Stalin and Hitler, we'll just run away. Yeah, so I'm not saying that.

And I think this also actually gets into some theology because there's the issue of common grace as well. And I tend to shy away from the doctrine of common grace. And it depends on how you define it.

But some people take the view that God enables you God enables some believers to do good things or to do things that are benefit that can be a benefit to society or to us. And I would say that Trump has done things that are extremely beneficial.

And he has rolled back a lot of the damage that the Obama administration has established. And I think those are beneficial things. Those are good things. They're not good in the sense that they're good in the eyes of God or that merit to many favor with God.

But they are beneficial for us and that they enable us to live quiet and peaceable lives, like the Bible says. So I think that's something that I think we can get behind to support on. And it's recognizing the Bible does say this, to give honor and credit where it is due.

And I think Trump has done some very good, some very honorable things to his credit as a president. And there was something I was looking at some of the issues where he stood on certain issues. And for those of you who I highly recommend the resource on the internet called iVoterGuide .com.

It gives you a pretty good take on a lot of the candidates, especially in your area, the ones that correspond to you. And I was looking at Trump's position on abortion and I was actually it's not something that we would probably agree with.

He said that he takes Reagan's position on abortion, namely that he allows for three exceptions, for rape, incest, and the life of the mother being at stake. And to be honest, I don't think you can justify rape or incest.

That's not you can't just throw away somebody's life or end it just because the circumstances in which it came about were undesirable. And the issue of the life of the mother, I think maybe that's a little bit more acceptable.

Because if you had to choose between one life or another, then it would be appropriate, I think, to choose for the mother's life. But, you know, I don't like his position. Here's the thing, and here's what I've seen Trump do.

I don't like his position on abortion. Now, what has he done policy-wise? Policy-wise, he has basically been the most pro-life president we've ever had. And he's enacted a ton of pro-life policies.

So I can get behind that, and I can appreciate that, and we can commend him for it, for doing those things that are in accordance with biblical moral law, the biblical morality. And these are important issues that we need to because it may be that and the other big issue is the LGBT, what his position is on LGBT.

That's what prevented me from voting for him primarily last time. And so I don't know if you want to get into that now, Tim, but that's obviously something that we're going to have to talk about as well.

Yeah, I don't yet go for it, man.

Yeah, so one of the things that I was also looking at and you showed us a clip about some gay conservative saying that Trump is the most pro-life I mean pro-LGBT president we've ever had. And he's done all these things, and he's trying to condemn homosexuality worldwide.

I mean he's trying to condemn the criminalization of homosexuality worldwide. And it's like and you see him with the LGBT flag saying, hey, vote for me, I'm pro-LGBT, and this and that. And that's not something that a Christian should be okay with or comfortable with.

I'm not comfortable with that. But here's the problem that I'm here's what I'm seeing Trump do. I think in some ways it's dishonest. It's sort of like false advertising because he's trying to, in a way, pander.

He's trying to sweet-talk certain people into getting them to their support and say, hey, you know, I support LGBT. I support I don't completely condemn abortion. I support it in these cases or whatever.

And that is a problem for me. I do have a problem with that. But when you see his policies, you tend to see a different story because he's the one who actually took transgenders out of the military. And he's also received there's been articles complaining about the fact that he actually rolled back something like over 30 of the policies that Obama put in place to try to advance the LGBT cause and things like that in different areas of our society.

So he pushed back and rolled back a lot of the stuff that Obama put in place. And it's like, well, is that a good thing? Well, yeah, it's a good thing. He's trying to roll back on a lot of this stuff and push back on it even though he still tries to promote his campaign by saying, yeah, I'm pro-LGBT.

And so that's a problem. That is a problem. And I think it's something that it should be addressed. It's something that we need to be careful with. But when you look at his track record and that's what you really need to look at.

There's debates and a lot of the times the debates can get out of hand. They're not always that helpful. But look at what he's done. And if you look at what he's done, he's done a lot of good things I think that Christians can get behind and support.

Yeah.

You know, as you're talking, this thought comes to mind is that we're not Trump apologists. And we shouldn't be. We shouldn't put ourselves in that position where we just defend the guy can do no wrong.

We believe that he's a sinner in need of a savior just like us. And it sounds like you're making the argument that we should look more towards the policies and Hiram, you said this as well and not the personality.

Because that really is what's going to affect the way that the country goes. And I don't think that we should have too high of a position of who he is. I mean he's not perfect. He makes mistakes. There's policy issues that we would disagree with him on.

But Hiram, what do you think about what Carlos is saying about the LGBT stuff? And do you think that that's a disqualifier for a Christian to vote for him? Or would you still vote for him?

Yeah, I'm still going to vote for him. Honestly, I'm very cynical when it comes to politics. And if that's one area where he's pulling a Machiavellian tactic or engaging in doublespeak, it's just one area as opposed to what you're going to get with other politicians.

The entirety of their campaign, the entirety of their residency in office is going to be just lies. Doublespeak, Machiavellian tactics, things that are hidden from you. So, I'm not going to say... The phrase, the lesser of two evils, I think, shouldn't be taken so literally as to mean that these people are absolutely, thoroughly evil in one sense.

And the other one just outdoes the other one by a degree or two. I think the issue is, the phrase is essentially just communicating that no matter who you pick, there's going to be some part of what they're doing, or their personality, or their policies, or whatever, that's not going to be beneficial.

As you view it, or objectively, it's not going to be good. But, you know what I mean? I can't take that idiom too literally.

Well, you know, I think that it's good that we as Christians are wrestling with this. But, I have to point out that there's a lot of Christians out there who are pro-LGBT. Or they claim to be Christian and they're pro-LGBT.

And so, we have to acknowledge that at this time, we're probably in the minority on this issue. A lot of professing Christians are now, and I've seen them on my Facebook. People that I used to go to church with, I know that they still attend church.

And they are pro-LGBT. They believe in gay marriage. They basically have adopted this as a civil rights issue, which it's not. So, we need to be, I think, sober-minded about this. And just recognize that a lot of professing Christians are going to disagree with us on this issue.

And think that this shouldn't even be an issue for us. So, do you guys have any thoughts on that?

Like I said, I'm cynical when it comes to politics and I really don't know. I can't view any politician as being 100 who they say they are. Because to me, that's just the nature of politics. You're one person looking to appease millions of people in this instance.

And for big cities, the same thing. And for smaller cities, thousands of people. And so, you're going to say things that are either false or misleading or ambiguous enough. So that nobody throws tomatoes at you while you're on stage.

And that's just the nature of politics. That's one of the reasons why I don't like it. But yeah, it's hard to answer the question or to think about it in a way that... It's hard to think about what you're asking in a way that has one good guy on one side.

Basically, a believer on one side and an unbeliever on the other side. Because I have a hard time believing that there are, other than maybe Mike Pence, that there are actual Christians in government.

I mean, that's how cynical I am about it.

Well, and I mean, if anything ever happened to Trump, I mean, Pence would be president. And I do think that he's a Christian. And I do really appreciate some of the stuff that he's done and just living out his Christian values.

So, you know, it sounds like there are issues to wrestle with when it comes to Trump. And one of the things that I want to point out is there's a lot of Christians out there right now that are writing against the idea that Christians should be in support of Trump.

You have writers in the Gospel Coalition. You have other people writing articles that, you know, because of Trump's character and because of Trump's, you know, he's a liar or he's dishonest or whatever, that our Christian testimony demands that we not vote for Trump.

And to some extent, I can sort of understand that position. But the problem that I have is that there is one guy, I think his name's Alan Noble, and he wrote an article that said our Christian testimony demands that we reject Trump.

And this article has been shared like hundreds of times. And I asked him repeatedly, I asked him twice, like, are you going to vote for Biden? He won't answer. And so if you're not going to vote for Trump because he's a liar, then you definitely shouldn't be voting for Biden or Harris because they are absolute liars.

And so that's really what I see as sort of this level of hypocrisy within the Christian movement that wants to vilify Trump and then at the same time vote for Biden and Harris over some of the same issues.

You know, and let me just look again. You can you can take issue with Trump. I do. I think that, you know, some of his economic policies I take issue with. I don't I don't like them. I don't think that they're good.

But, you know, this is a hard truth, but it needs to be said. If you're a never Trumper, then it's highly likely that either your ideological or your political framework is depraved or you've been manipulated by the media.

And a lot of these people that are never Trumpers and they want to vilify him for being dishonest or his character flaws or whatever, you know, he's he's not a principled man. Then they're turning around and voting for Biden and Harris.

And I just want to point out a couple of the I think the points that are hypocritical. So if you guys will allow me, they say that, you know, Trump is a liar, right? Well, Biden and Harris have repeatedly lied about Trump in order in order to destroy him.

And so that that's a little bit more than just dishonest. That's Orwellian where they lie about you and they don't just lie about you. They say they accuse you of doing exactly what they're doing. You know, they they say that he's a racist, for example.

Well, the one who said racist things is Biden. He most recently said, you know, if you don't vote for me, you ain't black. If you look at his long history, he's he's said some like really racist things.

And and so then they turn around and they say Trump's a racist. And in the last debate, Biden touted the what's now known as the Charlottesville lie, where apparently Trump said in Charlottesville, he said there's very fine people, you know, and referring to very to Nazis, that there's very fine people.

That's not at all what happened. Trump immediately said, I'm not talking about the Nazis and the white supremacists. They should be condemned totally. And unfortunately, everybody ignored that. The news outlets, they ignored that.

They clipped it. And then they ran with the story that Trump said that referring to neo-Nazis, that there's very fine people on both sides, which on its face is is flat out stupid. It's it's obviously stupid because then that means that Trump thinks that the Antifa is also full of very fine people because he said very fine people on both sides.

He was talking about the peaceful protesters on different sides of the political issue. He wasn't talking about the Antifa group or the neo-Nazis. And so they are still both. Kamala Harris and Biden repeated that lie in the debate.

Biden called him a racist in the debate, you know, and and then the question was asked, you know, if he would condemn white supremacy. And I got so fed up with this. I actually wrote a little Facebook post on it.

Let me let me just like go over this real fast so that way we can we can just settle this matter and we can get this out. During the debate, Trump was asked to condemn white supremacy by Chris Wallace.

He specifically white supremacists and militia groups. And as the question was being asked, I don't know if you guys caught this. He said, sure. Well, that's that's a condemnation. He said, sure. And then he said, sure, I'm willing to do that.

But then he tried to draw attention to the fact that the violence that the violence in the cities that we're seeing is primarily coming from the radical left. He said, what do you want me to call them?

Give me a name. And if you notice, Chris Wallace said, you know, stand down. And if you if you listen to when Trump said, like, stand back, stand down. He he fumbled his words. So he was trying to repeat what what Chris Wallace had said, stand, stand, stand down.

And he misspoke. But that's exactly what he was doing. And unfortunately, Trump was trying to engage honestly with the moderator and his opponent while they were playing. Gotcha. He got a little sidetracked because of the dishonesty of the question.

The question carried the assumption that he hasn't already repeatedly condemned white supremacy, neo-Nazis and the KKK. And the question also carried with it the assumption that the violence is being perpetrated by the alt-right or white supremacists, which is what Trump took issue with.

So here's what an honest moderator would have said. He would have said, Mr. Biden, we've heard Trump repeatedly condemn white supremacists, neo-Nazis and the KKK. Trump has gone so far as to even designate the KKK as a terrorist organization.

Yet you have falsely accused him of not condemning these groups while also pushing the Charlottesville lie, which you did tonight. And you have repeatedly not been willing to condemn Antifa and the radical left.

Are you therefore willing to stop lying about your opponent? And are you willing to condemn Antifa? And just for good measure, I want to play for our listeners a little montage of Trump condemning white supremacists.

He's done this for years. What they're doing is is dishonest and it's wrong. So if you'll indulge me, let me play this real quick.

We are a country that stands united in condemning hate and evil in all of its very ugly forms. Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy. There must be no tolerance for anti-Semitism in America or for any form of religious or racial hatred or prejudice.

Love for America requires love for all of its people. When we open our hearts to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice, no place for bigotry and no tolerance for hate.

So all of that was prior to the debate. The question was not honest. And the next day, everybody ran with the story that Trump didn't condemn white supremacists or white supremacy. Savannah Guthrie, I think that's how you say her last name, Savannah Gunthrie or Guthrie, whatever her name is, also asked about it.

And he said, yeah, I condemn white supremacy. Or he, you know, again, for the hundredth time. And so one of those clips that you just heard in that little montage was from the from the Charlottesville incident.

Yet Biden doesn't seem to care. And Biden is lying about him in order to destroy him. They've also lied about him by claiming that he said that COVID -19 was a hoax. That's not true. He did not say that COVID -19 was a hoax.

We'll put in the information in the show notes to debunk that. And what you'll see is that the Biden campaign actually very deceptively edited a clip from Trump's rally in which Trump was saying that they're blaming him for COVID -19 is a hoax, that it's not his fault, that that's what the hoax is.

Not that the COVID -19 is itself a hoax. So this is this is what I take issue with. And I'd love for you guys to give me your thoughts on this. A lot of people vilify Trump in ways that like they they, you know, again, they'll say, well, I would never vote for a president who said grab him by the you know what when referring to women.

Right. And as Christians, we can say, yeah, that's wrong. Like that that was sinful. He should repent. Again, he needs a savior. But at the same time, yet, you know, you're going to vote for a guy who probably actually did that with Tara Reid, you know, and so there's just this level of hypocrisy.

It's like you want to say you want to disqualify Trump and say, oh, he's a liar. Yet you have Biden and Harris that are repeatedly lying about him in order to destroy him. And I mean, that's that's wicked.

So I'd love to hear what your guys's thoughts are on that.

The Debate Over Trump, Biden, and the Lesser of Two Evils

Yeah. You know, so this is where we have to be careful not to gag at gnats and swallowing camels, because and just to clarify the issue, I think I think we all saw the debates in the town halls. I did get a chance to see all of them.

And with Chris Wallace in the first presidential debate, what happened, I think, was Chris, when he asked who he said, sure, he said, sure. Like you said, meaning he was going to condemn it. He basically condemned it by saying in the affirmative.

Sure. And then he said, what do you want me to call them? And the reason he asked that was because he's he he continually gets harassed with this question. And and then and then what happened was Chris Wallace, I think, said the KKK and white supremacists.

But then Biden spoke over him and said the Proud Boys. And so but he was he was paying attention to Biden. And so he that's why he said, stand back and stand down. He didn't know who they were. And I didn't even at the time, I was like, I don't even know who those guys were.

But then I realized, no, I didn't know who they were. There's some they're like these Latino. It's ironic because they're Latino to Trump supporters. And some people don't like that. I don't even know if they're actually racist, to be honest.

I mean, they come out.

They're not racist and they're not white supremacist because they're not white.

They're Latino. Yeah. And and they sometimes they may be they have it's like a club or something. They smoke. They like to talk about they're conservative. And sometimes they get I don't know if they get a little aggressive or whatever.

But it's like, I don't know. They don't they probably not even as as bad as they say they are or whatever. But the so that that happened then. And now if you look at the this is where you really see the media, where they stand.

I mean, if you didn't see it, you are blind as a bat. When you with the town halls, you look at the Trump town hall with Savannah Guthrie. She was acting like a rabid hyena. Her like just attacking and swarming Trump with with just blasting him with question.

And Trump did a fantastic job. He did an excellent job addressing most of her questions. He may have said some things that weren't all the way true or whatever. I heard some some somebody fact check him that he didn't get it.

You know, he said some misleading things or what. I'm not I'm not I haven't fact checked everything myself. But he did an excellent job keeping trying to pull the rabid snout from from Savannah Guthrie.

And trying to bring some some clarity to to the issues here, because she just it was so ridiculous. And you could see how how and you see the contrast. Right. You see the contrast with the Biden town hall crickets.

Right. Crickets. And it was like, well, who was it? George Stephanopoulos. Stephanopoulos. He was questioning Biden like they were in a Girl Scout camp. My I mean, it was just like not even lobbying the softball, just just rolling it at him.

And but don't you think the only thing I saw him press him on was, don't you think the people have a right to know, you know, whether or not you're going to pack the Supreme Court? And he's like, oh, I just don't want that to be the issue.

You're dishonest. Like answer the question. The people you the people have a right to know who they're voting for and what they stand for. And you use it was a polar con. I mean, I hope that works because that is waking some people up.

You know, there's and this is where we have to this is where we get into the issue of gagging at gnats and swallowing camels. You look at the big picture. Look at the big picture. You see how rabid the press and these these liberals are against Trump because he's doing something they don't like.

And it's because in a lot of cases, it's the right thing. He's doing the right thing. And he's calling a lot of people out. He's calling the media out, calling news out, fake news and and just showing just how corrupt the media has become.

The left has become. And it's fantastic. The guy is reforming. He's doing a lot of, you know, and it's and it's funny because we think about this and Luther. And I just talked about this in one of my one of the studies in our church.

Luther was not a perfect guy. OK, he was he was far from perfect. In fact, Luther had a nasty temper, nasty. And it got so bad that he started to vitriolically condemn the Jews, not because he was a racist.

A lot of people twist that he was not a racist. He he he just he ended up despising them because of their theology and because he attempted to evangelize them. And they never they never came to Christ.

And he became very bitter by that. And and he got so bad in the end that God basically just took him out. Like, dude, your temper is so bad. God just had to take him out. And confessional Lutherans will even acknowledge that, that he just got too out of hand.