Leadership in the Home Church and Church — Zac Poonen

Adam’s Submission and Satan’s Authority

That has operated on earth ever since Adam handed over his life to the devil in the Garden of Eden. God gave the earth to Adam to rule, but when he submitted to the devil in the Garden of Eden, that which God gave him to rule also became the devil's.

And that's why the devil had the authority, the boldness to tell Jesus in the time of temptation in Luke chapter 4 and verse 6, If you bow down to me, all the kingdoms of this world I will give to you, because these have been handed over to me.

All the kingdoms of this world have been handed over to me, and I give them to whomever I wish. Don't forget those words. Satan said it to Jesus. Satan may tell lies to us, but he couldn't tell a lie to Jesus.

And Jesus never challenged that statement. I will give you all this domain and its glory, for it has been handed over to me. Who gave it to him? Not God. Adam. What God gave to Adam in the Garden of Eden, he handed over to Satan.

When you allow Satan to come in some area in your life by obeying him, you hand over to him what God wants you to rule over. God wanted Adam to rule over the earth, but when he submitted to Satan, he not only fell himself, but he handed over to Satan what God had given him.

Christ’s Victory Through the Way of the Cross

And Jesus came to win back to God from that satanic power, everything that Adam had given over to Satan. But how did he do it? It's very interesting to see how Jesus Christ conquered the devil. Satan is a created being, and for God to crush him would be easier than for us to crush an ant or a worm under our shoe.

How difficult is it for you to crush a little ant under your shoes? It's that easy for God, easier than that, to crush Satan. But he didn't do it that way. We need to learn something here. In the world, it's power versus power.

They say, the survival of the fittest. Whoever is the strongest will survive. But in the Kingdom of God, it's not like that. Jesus did not overcome by crushing Satan under his feet. He allowed Satan to crush him physically, and thus overcame him on the cross.

See what it says. Two wonderful verses. The power of an indestructible life. Jesus had it. How did he use that power to defeat Satan? That's the way you and I are going to overcome Satan too. It's the way of the cross.

The way of the cross, just like the message of repentance, is another thing that's completely missing from today's Christendom. I told you today, earlier on, that even those who preach repentance, never explain repentance.

It's no use a preacher telling people, repent, repent, repent, and you say, ah, at last there's a preacher who preaches repentance. But is he explaining to people what that word means? It's no use. It's like speaking in another language.

Most Christians, I'd say 99 of them, don't have a clue what repentance means. So it's no use even preaching repentance to them, unless you explain in plain, simple words, in practical terms, what that means.

The way of the cross is another thing which most Christians don't understand. I remember attending a seminar in Bangalore many years ago, where a number of church leaders from evangelical churches in Bangalore had come together for a discipleship seminar.

And they broke up into little groups to consider, what does it mean to take up the cross? Because that is one of the conditions of discipleship. And then after this, the groups came together and submitted their findings to the one who was conducting the seminar, and he was supposed to read out the report.

And he said, the consensus of all the opinion of everybody here is that we just don't know what it means to take up the cross. I'm not surprised. Very few people know what it means. You can talk about being crucified, you know what it means?

You can say, take up the cross. What does it mean? If we don't understand that, we won't understand how Jesus overcame Satan. Because our understanding of power is physical might. You know, take over the world.

There are a lot of people talking about kingdom life and all these fantastic words. They haven't understood how Jesus came to conquer Satan. How he came to conquer this world. It's not by signs and wonders and miracles.

When did Jesus overcome Satan? He cast out numerous demons when he was on earth. He raised the dead. He healed the sick, but none of them overcame Satan. If Jesus could not overcome Satan by healing the sick and raising the dead, where do you think you and I are gonna do that with that?

How did Jesus overcome Satan? Not by preaching. Not by raising the dead. Not by his miracles. Notice what scripture says. Then we'll understand the way of the cross. The way of the cross is closely linked to the power of an indestructible life.

Let me show you, first of all, 2 Corinthians chapter 13. Remember, the Corinthians was the most carnal of all the churches in the first century as far as we know. Babies. Paul said, I can't feed you with meat.

They despised the apostle Paul. They did not value his apostleship. And one would think that to such a group, Paul must tell them about how I raised the dead. How I've done miracles. He doesn't say any of those things.

Do you know what he tells the Corinthians? He tells them, I was beaten. 2 Corinthians 11, 23. I've been beaten so many times I've stopped counting. I'm often in danger of death. I received, verse 24, 39 lashes from the Jews, 5 times.

I was beaten with rods, I was stoned, 3 times I was shipwrecked. Is this the power of an indestructible life? Is this how you overcome Satan? He was walking the way of the cross. All these things could not destroy the life of Jesus in him.

It was an indestructible life. 195 lashes from the Jews. Stoning, shipwrecked. And it says in verse 25, last part of 2 Corinthians 11, 25. 24 hours I was floating around in the sea. Trying to survive, hanging on to planks, shipwrecked.

Shipwrecked for what? Was he going doing business to make money? He was going to preach the gospel. Does God allow his greatest apostles who go to preach the gospel to be shipwrecked? That sounds so crazy.

Can't God save a ship from shipwreck? And why tell all this to these carnal Corinthians? You should be telling them about your power and your might and all that. And then, he tells another very humiliating thing.

In verse 32. He says in verse 27 first. Many times without food. In cold and exposure. And then he says in verse 32. In Damascus, the king was guarding the city to seize me. The great apostle, sitting in a little basket.

Verse 32, lowered through a window in the wall. What a humiliating way to escape. I mean, if the Lord could have picked up Philip by his hair and taken him from here and transported him there. Here's one time when he should have done that to Paul.

And one would have thought he could have talked about that. The Lord picked me up by my hair and took me right out of Damascus. But no. He was lowered in a humiliating way in a basket. Can you picture this?

The apostle Paul sitting in a small basket being lowered through a window. And he's talking about this to the Corinthians who despises apostleship. You wouldn't talk about that, would you? To people whom you're trying to prove that you're an apostle.

We need to understand the way of the cross. The way of humiliation. 2 Corinthians 13. Verse 3. You are seeking for proof of the Christ who speaks in me, right? Okay, I'll tell you. Verse 4. He was crucified because of weakness.

But he lives by the power of God. We also are weak in him. But we live by the power of God directed towards you. Corinthians 5. Test yourselves. See whether your faith is the same as this faith. I would say that to the Lord of Christendom today.

Test your faith. You fellows who are standing up on platforms or on television screens trying to boast about the power of God. If your faith is the same as the faith of the apostle Paul. We are crucified in weakness.

But we live by the power of God. He was crucified in weakness. He could have called 72 ,000 angels. But he died alone. For you and me. That's weakness. We don't have the power to call 72 ,000 angels. He had.

But he never called them. That is the power of an indestructible life. He did not overcome Satan with 72 ,000 angels. He overcame Satan by giving himself in weakness. When the Roman soldiers came, he said, Who do you seek?

Jesus of Nazareth? That's me. Take me. Let these people go. That is Christianity. Hebrews chapter 2. Hebrews chapter 2. Verse 14. Since the children share in flesh and blood. He himself likewise took part of the same.

Why did he take part of our flesh and blood? He tells us the reason here. Because that was the only way that he could die. He couldn't have died. If he had come as a spirit. He couldn't have died if he had come as an angel.

Angels don't die. He had to take flesh and blood. Because that's the only way he could die. And through death. He rendered powerless. The one who had the power of death. That is the devil. He overcame Satan.

Through death. Not by crushing him under his feet. Satan, you kill me. I'll overcome you through this death. Have you understood that way? Why doesn't God deliver Christians in China today? Who are being persecuted.

Harassed. Imprisoned. Killed. And in many parts. Many parts of India. Many parts of the world. Is it because he is powerless? In weakness. God's power is seen. Let me show you another verse. In Colossians chapter 2.

Verse 14. The first thing that Jesus did on the cross was. He cancelled out the certificate of death. Consisting of decrees against us. And then on the cross. Verse 15. He disarmed the rulers and authorities.

He overcame Satan. Not when he cast out demons. He overcame Satan. Not when he did miracles. He overcame Satan when he died on the cross. The moment of his deepest humiliation. Of extreme weakness. Was the way God chose.

To defeat the mightiest power. Next to God on the earth. Satanic power. And that's what the Lord has shown me. If you want to overcome Satan in your life. There is only one way. You won't overcome him by casting out demons.

You won't overcome him by doing miracles. You'll overcome him. If you share the death of Jesus. If you die the way Jesus died. Satan will have no power over you. I remember in 1963. That's 46 years ago.

When I was seeking for the baptism in the Holy Spirit. I was a young Christian. I'd been baptized in water. I knew the Bible. But I was powerless in my life. I began to seek God for the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

And people told me. It's the Pentecostal Church where you will learn about that. So I went there. And I was so disappointed with what I saw. It was just a lot of noise and emotion. I'm not criticizing them.

I'm not here to judge any church. I'm sure there are some very godly people there. But the ones I went to. It was just noise and emotion. I found pastors who loved money. And I came back disappointed.

And I said, Lord, I don't want that. That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for the power that Peter, James, and John got on the day of Pentecost. When they were baptized in the Holy Spirit. There would have been no Christianity on earth.

If they had not received that mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. They would have been still sitting in a closed room for fear of the Jews. But when they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

They went out and turned the world upside down. And I said, Lord, I want that power. I don't want emotion. I don't want electric shocks down my spine. I don't want any of these things. I want the power.

The Cross, the Spirit, and the Indestructible Life

And the Lord showed me at that time something I've never forgotten all these years. The Lord showed me how He Himself was baptized. In the River Jordan. And He went into that water symbolizing a submission to death.

You know when you're baptized, you're submitting to somebody else putting you under the water. You can resist it if you want. Maybe very difficult for Him to immerse you if you resist it. But how were you baptized?

You submitted to somebody who pushed you under the water. And when Jesus allowed John the Baptist to push him under the water. He was actually saying, Father, I accept this way of death. When people crucify me, I'll accept it.

Every day of His life. I don't mean just the final crucifixion. He accepted the way of death to sell to the cross because He had come to save us. And as soon as He came out of the water, the Spirit came upon Him mightily.

Anointed Him with power. And He went forth in the power of the Holy Spirit from that day onwards. And did a fantastic ministry in three and a half years. And the Lord showed me the close connection between accepting the way of death and the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

And I've never forgotten it. And I believe that that's what many people who emphasize the baptism in the Holy Spirit today have missed. The close connection between the anointing of the Holy Spirit and the way of the cross.

And what the Lord told me that time was, if you choose the way of the cross, you will have my power resting upon you all your life. But the day you go away from this way of the cross, my power will go away from you as well.

And I've never forgotten it. And I decided that day I would go the way of the cross. And that's the thing that I see even today. Looking unto Jesus. Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and finishers of our faith.

Who for the joy set before Him endured the cross. That's the way we go. So, Jesus manifested in His life that His life is indestructible. Nothing could take away that inner power and joy. I told you the other day how Jesus was sick.

That couldn't take away joy and power of His life. Now, I didn't show you those verses. Maybe I should show it to you now. Matthew chapter 8 and verse 17. It's good for you to know this because so many people have a wrong idea of what Jesus has come to do.

I believe Jesus heals the sick. I've experienced healing in my own life by the supernatural power of God. I was severely stricken by asthma for many, many years. And the Lord healed me. I never had that problem again.

But I also believe that sometimes He allows us to go through sickness. Like He did Paul. Paul had a sickness with a thorn in the flesh that he never got healed from. Timothy had frequent stomach aches.

We read in 1 Timothy 5 verse 23. That he never got healed from. No matter how many times Paul laid hands on him and prayed for him. He never got healed. Paul said, well, I can't just take some medicine.

But here it says in Matthew 8 verse 17. That Jesus, when He healed many who were ill, verse 16. It was in order that it might be fulfilled what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet. He himself took our infirmities and carried away our diseases.

Now that was not on the cross. No. That was here. We got to be careful when we read scripture. That was not on the cross. This is long before He went to the cross. When He healed the sick in verse 16.

It was a fulfillment of what was written in Isaiah 53. He took our infirmities and carried away our diseases. And He did it there. Now, whenever I have a little suggestion for you in Bible study. Whenever you read a verse in the New Testament that's quoted from the Old Testament.

Go back to the Old Testament and compare it. And you'll discover some amazing truths. I can take a whole session on that one day sometime. But in Isaiah 53, this verse is quoted from Isaiah 53 and verse 4.

And I'll show you something very wonderful there. If you compare these two verses. Matthew 8, 17 says, He took our infirmities, carried away our diseases. You go to Isaiah 53, verse 4. It says, our griefs He bore and our sorrows He carried.

And in the margin of my NASB it says, verse 4. Grief can also be translated as sickness. And I looked up the Hebrew concordance. I don't know Hebrew, but I looked up the concordance in the English Hebrew thing.

And I saw that that word is translated 22 times as sickness. Throughout the Old Testament. I don't know why they translated here as griefs. It is sickness. Our sickness He bore. And that's how it's quoted in Matthew chapter 8.

It is referring to sickness, the word grief. Now, look at verse 3. He was despised and forsaken of men. A man of sorrows acquainted with sickness. Now I know why the translators did not dare to translate it as sickness.

They couldn't believe that Jesus was sick. So they changed it and said griefs. They had no right. They were dishonest. Just because they didn't have light on it. Acquainted with sickness, He bore our sickness.

Why? Because Jesus had to demonstrate in every situation that this indestructible life will triumph over temptation, triumph over sickness, triumph over death, triumph over everything. People say, you mean Jesus was sick?

Isn't sickness a result of the curse? I want to ask you, when Jesus was working as a carpenter, do you think He perspired or not? Or did He never perspire? Did He sweat? Do you know sweat is a result of the curse?

By the sweat of your brow, you shall earn your bread. There was no curse in Him. He was totally free from it. But He had taken a body. If Jesus stepped on a thorn, would it poke Him or not? Was He like us or not?

I'm just asking you that. Was He made like His brethren in all things or not? Or did He come with some other body? He got a resurrection body only after He rose up from the dead. I tell you, when I see that Jesus became sick for me, perspired for me, does it make Him inferior?

No! It makes Him glorious in my eyes. I say, Lord, you went through all that for me? To show me that I could triumph in sickness? That I could triumph and thorns poke my feet? That I could rejoice and praise the Lord and not curse like other people?

I believe this indestructible life is really indestructible. All the power of Satan hurled at Jesus could not touch Him. Nothing. When I saw that Jesus came tempted like me with all the dirty lusts I'm tempted with that He was tempted.

It didn't make Him small in my eyes. It made Him far more glorious. It made me weep when I thought how He came to this wretched slum in order to save me. Yeah. He overcame. His authority was manifested not in the way the Gentiles exercise their authority.

Servant Leadership in the Kingdom of God

Jesus said that very clearly to His disciples in Luke chapter 22. It says in verse 24, there arose a dispute among them. Luke 22, 24. Which one of them was regarded to be the greatest? That dispute is not seized in Christendom for 2 ,000 years.

Even today in many, many churches there's a dispute. Who is greater? Who can preach better? Who is the greatest evangelist? Who can pray better? Who can organize better? Whose church is the largest? I'm not in that rat race.

I got out of that years ago. There's a rat race in the world. There's a rat race in Christendom. And by the grace of God He pulled me out of it years ago. I finished with it. I live in another realm where these things don't have any value.

Greatness, power, position. It's all before Pentecost they were like that. When Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came upon them and they opened their eyes to see the way of the cross, they were not interested in all these things.

And Jesus said to them, the kings of the Gentiles lord it over them. And those who have authority over them are called benefactors. But it shall not be so with you. Verse 26. Let him who is the greatest among you become as the youngest and the leader as the servant.

For who is greater? Verse 27. The one who reclines at the table, you, twelve disciples and that included Judas Iscariot. All of you. Aren't you the greatest ones over here? And who's greater? The one who's sitting at the table or the one who serves?

The one who sits at the table. I am among you, verse 27, as the one who serves. You are greater. You're sitting at the table. I'm here to wash your feet. This is the power of an indestructible life. Where do you see Christian leaders like this?

All over the world. We have this false teaching. That you have to submit to authority. People say, I'm the elder of this church. If you're gonna be here, submit to your authority. They haven't read these passages.

They don't know a thing about the way of the cross. And that's because they're not filled with the Holy Spirit. Or if they are filled with some spirit, it's not the Holy Spirit. And they don't know the way of the cross.

They may speak in tongues. But they haven't understood this way. Who is greater? You who sit at the table or me, Jesus says. I am one among you who serves. The last day of his earthly life, he spent sitting at the disciples' feet, washing their feet.

This is my Savior. This is my Lord. And many times I've said, Lord, the last day of my earthly life, I want to spend sitting at some disciple's feet, washing his feet. Because I want to be like Jesus.

That's the way I want to go. And I want to live all my life like that. I don't want to be like the Gentiles, exercising authority over people, telling people to submit to me. I'm not interested. I don't have a desire for anybody in the whole world to submit to me.

Zero desire. I have no desire to be an elder over anybody else. Zero. I've seen Jesus. I've seen my Savior. I've seen this indestructible life, which has got nothing to do with human authority, which has nothing to do with imposing authority on other people, like I've seen in so many denominations.

So many people who say, we got light on this, we got light on that, they don't seem to have light on the most important thing of all, the way of the cross. Therefore, they miss the indestructible life.

There are charismatics at one extreme, and legalists at the other extreme. Both of them haven't seen this. Both are seeking to impose their authority on people. You got to listen to me. Otherwise, get out of here.

Have they seen it? Have they seen Jesus? The authority of Christ is not something imposed from above. In many churches, it's like that. In the Roman Catholic Church, whether you like it or not, somebody is the Pope.

You may have had no say in electing him, but he's still your Pope. And if you happen to live in a particular parish, that is your parish priest, whether you like it or not. It's like that in the assemblies of God.

There's somebody elected who is the worldwide superintendent of the assemblies of God, and underneath him, like at the Coca-Cola company, they have managers and assistants and directors, and all the way down to the local pastor, and you got to be under him.

But it's not like that in God's kingdom. God does not establish denominations. He establishes local churches. A local church and another local church. They may have fellowship with one another, but one doesn't control the other.

And there's no central headquarters where somebody controls the whole lot. No. That's not the Church of Jesus Christ. That's some earthly corporation with a CEO on top who calls himself senior pastor or whatever it is.

It's not the Church of Jesus Christ. And even in a local church, an elder is not one who imposes his authority on others. In my church, where I have been an elder, I have said to the people in my church in Bangalore, dear brothers and sisters, I am not your elder unless you have confidence in me.

And I desire, I will never ask you to do anything I'm not here even to give you advice unless you come and ask me for it. I have no desire to run your life in any area. I mean the maximum I may say is we meet at 9 .30 next Sunday.

Please come at 9 .30. You can submit to that. Or we'll stand up to sing this song. Please stand up. Now we'll sit down. Please sit down. That's like a physical training instructor. Stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down.

That's all. Is that spiritual authority? And I've told them, listen, in the church of Jesus Christ, authority is not imposed from above. Like in the corporations, the CEO, you better submit to him, otherwise you'll be chucked out.

In the church of Jesus Christ, authority is accepted from beneath. I decide whether I have confidence in this brother. If I have confidence in him and I see in him the qualities of a man of God, it is for my safety that I submit to him.

I would do that. And I said, none of you got to submit to me. I said that in my church. Many times. I don't ask anything of you. I don't want your money. I don't want your submission. I don't want your obedience.

If you think that some advice of mine will protect you from some calamity, I'll give you my advice and every time people come to me for advice, I tell them, listen, this is what I think you should do, but please don't do it.

Go home, pray about it, and if you feel Jesus, your head, I'm not your head. If Jesus, your head, tells you, you still feel you should do it, do it. Otherwise, don't do it. And I won't get offended if you don't do it.

And you don't do it and you make a mess of your life, and you come back to me, I will never say, I told you so. No. Don't ever use those words to anybody. This is the voice of the expert. I told you so.

I said, I won't tell you that. When you come back to make, after having made a mess of your life, I'll tell you how to get out of it. You know, I've often used this example. In some places, there's a marathon race that runs through the city, like the Boston Marathon.

They run around, and along the roads, there are people who want to help these runners by holding out a glass of water. Because these guys are thirsty, running 26 miles. And I say, you know what I am? As an elder brother, I'm just one of those people standing holding a glass of water for you.

As you run, and you come along, and you run along, and I say, here's a glass of water, and you say, I don't want it. Fine. And you come around next time, I won't get offended and say, hey, you didn't take it from me last time, I'm not going to give it to you now.

My advice is like a glass of water. If you want it, take it. And if you don't take it, next time you come around and you want it, you can have it. I'm not so insecure that I say, you didn't take my advice last time, I won't give it to you next time.

I'm not a kid. I'm grown up man. I'm a servant of God. It's not like somebody pulling back the toys and saying, I won't share my toys with you. Do you know how many elders are babies? Do you have to submit to them?

N-O. No. You only got to submit to somebody you have confidence in. As a man of God. Who you know will protect you. Why do we have fathers on earth? Why has God put fathers over children? Is it to rule them?

No. Protect them. What do you fathers tell your children? Isn't it for their protection that you are appointed there? Not to rule over them. I work with about 70 elders. Probably 70 or 80 elders in our 50 churches.

And we come together frequently for elders meetings. And I keep on telling them, Dear brothers, we don't want any teachers in our churches. We're not running schools. We want fathers. Because we're building families.

There's a lot of difference between a teacher and a father. And if any of you are a teacher, you're a failure as an elder. Because you'll build a school. The church is not a school. The church is a family.

And families don't need teachers. Families need fathers. Please be a father to your people. When you want to discipline a person, many people have asked me, Brother, so and so did this thing. What shall I do to him?

How shall I treat him? I said, I'll tell you. If that were your son, how would you treat him? Do the same thing. If that were your daughter, how would you treat her when she did the same thing? Treat that sister like that.

Be a father. We have enough teachers in Christendom. We have enough lords and authorities. We need fathers. Compassionate fathers. The Bible says, Like a father pities his children. Psalm 103. So the Lord has compassion.

That's what we need. That is the power of an indestructible life. That's how Jesus manifested. He could look at people and say, You are greater than me. Who is greater? The one who sits at the table or the one who serves?

I'm one who serves. Christendom has failed because it doesn't have such leaders. In India, Christendom has failed because it doesn't have such leaders. I knew when I began to understand these truths that I couldn't change the whole of India.

I said, Lord, I'm just one small man in the midst of 1 ,200 million people. But in my little corner, you know, there's a song which says, You in your little corner and I in mine. Right in the corner where you are.

You in your corner and I in mine. I've got a little corner and I said, Lord, I'm going to make a little light in this corner. I can't brighten up the whole country. But the few people you give me, I want to teach them to be fathers.

And in the few places where I can have a little bit of a input, I want to let a light burn for you with the indestructible life of Jesus. We need that in many parts of the world. Fathers and teachers are different.

Spiritual Fathers Who Patiently Restore Others

I look at it like this, for example, supposing here is a boy who is poor in mathematics. He sits in a classroom. And he's always getting his problems wrong. And the teacher gets fed up. Maybe he's a patient teacher, but even he gets fed up after a few times.

And he says, Listen, you're never going to learn, you stupid fellow. Get out of this class and go and join some other school. I don't want you to come back to this class. You're holding up the whole class.

And that poor 10-year-old boy goes home weeping. Checked out of the school because he can't learn mathematics fast enough like all the other students. And he goes home and dad says, Why are you crying, son?

He says, Dad, I'm very poor at mathematics. And the dad says, Don't worry. I'll teach you. And he sits with him and tries to teach him how to work out that problem. He just can't understand it. He gets it wrong.

And the father says, Never mind, son. Tomorrow is another day. We'll try again. Tomorrow he sits with his son. He still can't get it. Don't worry, son. Don't give up. I'm going to work with you till you learn this.

Tomorrow is another day. We'll start again. And he works with him. Works with him. And one day, that son learns. Dad, I got it! A teacher doesn't have that patience. A father has. You know what Christendom needs?

Fathers. You can be a father. You can be a spiritual father to others. Let that be your goal. You have enough teachers and authorities and leaders. Be a father in your home to your own children first.

Be like a spiritual father to your wife. Maybe she does many things wrong. You are the husband. Do you want to be a husband like Jesus? In Bangalore, about a mile away from my house, there's a slaughterhouse where they kill the sheep for the meat market.

And I see sometimes on the roads of Bangalore these sheep being driven to the slaughterhouse. And I know that's not a good shepherd leading them to the green pastures because he's not going in front of them.

He's going behind them with a whip. And I know from the example of Jesus, the good shepherd goes in front of his sheep saying, follow me. The hireling goes with a whip behind. And when a hireling goes behind with a whip, he's leading them to the slaughterhouse.

And I've learned something from it. If you want to... If your wife is doing something wrong, you can either be a shepherd or a hireling. You can either go in front of her and say, follow me. Follow me, dear.

Walk the way I walk. Or you can get behind her with a whip and say, how many times I've told you not to do that? You're not a shepherd. You're a hireling. Unfit to be a husband. You should never have gotten married.

You should have remained single all your life instead of messing up another poor woman's life. You want to get married? Otherwise don't call yourself a Christian. Call yourself by some other name. If you are a Christian, you take the name of Jesus Christ and you're a husband, then be a shepherd.

Like Jesus. Love your wife as Christ loved the church. Go in front, like a good shepherd. Be an example. And say, follow me, darling. This is the way we go. The way of the cross. It's because we are not good examples ourselves that we become hirelings and get behind them with a whip.