April 16, 2026 Show with Dr. Keith Foskey on “A Biblically Functioning Church”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 16th day of April, 2026.

I'm so delighted to be back together again with my friend Dr. Keith Foskey, author, pastor, podcaster, humorist, and one of three elders at Sovereign Grace Family Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and today he's going to be addressing the theme of his new book, A Biblically Functioning Church.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Keith Foskey.

Chris, thanks again for having me on. It's always fun to talk to you, and this is not my first time on, so I just want to say thank you for having the faith in me to bring me back.

Oh, I love to have you back.

I'm not always re-invited.

Well, that's not the case with me.

Sure.

I guess some other jerks out there are not inviting you back. By the way, you should feel very honored because I only reserve the song Back Together Again by Larry Coriel and Alphonse Mouzon, a couple of my favorite jazz fusion artists, both of them now deceased, but I usually reserve that song only for when Dr. James R. White is in town speaking at local engagements or if we're going to Georgia together or somewhere else attending the same conference.

So you should feel privileged that I played that to introduce you today.

Absolutely. Always appreciate you, brother.

And tell our listeners, for the sake of those who are just discovering you today, tell our listeners about Sovereign Grace Family Church in Jacksonville, Florida.

Yep. We are a Reformed Baptist Church on the north side of Jacksonville. Jacksonville is a pretty big city, so we are on the northern side near the airport. I've been the pastor now. I just celebrated my 20th year as the pastor of Sovereign Grace.

We celebrated that in January. And we are a First London Confession Church, which often raises questions. People want to know why we're not Second London Confession, and maybe we'll do another show about that.

But we are a confessional Baptist church holding to the 1646, the First London Baptist Confession of Faith. And we're a small church here on the north side, but we would love to have people come and visit us if they were interested.

I'm sorry. We're going to have to conclude this interview now, discovering that you're not a Second London Baptist.

That's right.

Well, if anybody is interested in discovering more about Sovereign Grace Family Church in Jacksonville, Florida, go to sgfcjaxs .org, sgfcjaxs .org. And you can also find out more about Keith Foskey himself and his writing and everything else he's up to at keithfoskey .com.

And Foskey is spelled F-O-S-K-E-Y, keithfoskey .com. And it's a joy to have you back on the program to discuss what I think is a very important issue. And what were the factors that compelled you to write a book on a biblically functioning church?

It seems to me over the 40—let's see, about 40 years that I've been a born-again believer, most of that time working in Christian media, which has led me to meet a very wide spectrum of professing believers, predominantly within evangelicalism, from a whole host of theological perspectives and so on.

And one main issue that seems to be plaguing the church, as long as I'm a Christian, is that many church leaders and their congregations really don't think that God requires that we use the Bible to determine how our church functions.

Ironically, even though they say they believe in the Bible, they say they believe it is the inerrant Word, they say they believe it is God-breathed, they say they love it, they say they live by it, allegedly their pastors teach from it and preach from it, but they think that now that we're in the new covenant, God gives us far more liberty than many of you Reformed folk think, and we could basically have a church function according to our tastes, preferences, and whatever we think will draw the lost into our building.

Have you noticed the same kind of thing? There may not be that open, honest, and blunt of an admission by these folks that I'm describing, but it's basically what they're really conveying in the way that they behave and the way their churches function.

Yeah, and this book actually arose out of a series of sermons that were preached because our church needed to change, and by God's grace, around the year 2010—so we're talking about 15 years ago—around the year 2010, God allowed our church to go through a time of real revival and soul-searching where we were sort of rediscovering who we were and who we wanted to be, and that was actually when we changed our name.

I've talked about this, I think, on your show before, that our church used to be called Forest Christian Church. We had come out of the old Disciples of Christ denomination, and we had totally gone away from that.

I mean, the Disciples of Christ are very liberal, but they're not only liberal, they're also very corporate. The way the model of church governance is, is there's an executive board, and there's a general board, and there are committees, and everything is run off of these.

It's very much the pastor is basically an employee, and the elders are like a spiritual advisory committee, and nothing was functioning from a biblical perspective. Everything was functioning from a corporate perspective, and so I said to our church, I said, I want to preach on what does the Bible say the church model should be?

How should the church function? And I began to look for resources. Now, there were some good resources at the time, Nine Marks was already out, and things like that. There were some books, but most of the books I found were actually on the subject of church growth, like how to get 500 new members by Christmas, or something like that.

And finding books that were primers on how to manage, how to run a church, like how do you do this? How do you start to finish, have a church that functioned biblically? I didn't find a lot of those resources, and so once I completed the sermons, and it was six months of preaching through this topic, and I did everything from how does the church handle finances, to how does the church handle choosing its leaders, how does the church, all of those things.

It's not a long book, but I would say it's pretty full as far as the amount of subjects, men and women in the church, what does the Bible say? And there's a whole chapter on that. And so this book was birthed out of a need from our church to have a manual, like how do we govern the church?

And so I preached it. We then took the sermons that I wrote, and I had a friend edit them down to a manual, and I had it self-published, but I really only did it for our people. I gave it out in our church.

We used it at our church. A few other people had it, but it was mainly an in-house thing. And a few years ago, Mark Goodson from Grace and Truth reached out to me, and he said, hey, do you have anything that you think would make a good book?

Do you have anything that you think would be good to publish? And I had this manuscript that had been sitting for several years, and I sent it to him. He and his wife read it. They both thought it was good and worth publishing.

Ben Zeitloff came along and edited it. So this new version is a new version. If anybody had bought the old self-published version, that was not professionally edited. This new one is a completely new edition.

It's got a little bit more information and little changes here and there. But for the most part, this is those sermons that I preached now set to a solid work that people can take. It's easily digestible.

It's only a little over 150 pages, so it's not a long book. I hope that it will be a benefit to church leaders and church members who want to know how.

The church should function. Now, I'm assuming that even those who either already have the book or buy the book, they want a more thorough and longer treatment of these subjects under that heading, that they can hear your sermons on all of these subtitles underneath.

How a biblically faithful.

Church functions. Well, you know, it's funny you asked that, because I would have to go back and see. We've had our sermons online for years, but I actually don't know how far back we go. I would have to go back to see if they're available.

Maybe I need to re-preach them. That could be something to go along with the book. I preached them in 2009, 2010, so we're talking 16 years ago. And we do have, I mean, I know I have over 2 ,000 sermons online because we started using an online publishing service years ago, and they now have all of my sermons.

Maybe they're there. I have to go see. That's a great question. I'm glad you asked, because I'm going to see if I can.

Find it. Yeah, that'd be also a great theme for a Bible conference, where you would be at least one of the speakers. And let's see if that can be developed and brought to fruition. What were some compelling factors that made you realize this book needs to get in the hands of Christians who really desire for their churches to function biblically?

What were those things that you saw—everything from gross negligence and going across the spectrum to the other side of well-meaning men, men that you even think may be very close to you in your theology, if not identical in 99 percent of the ways, but in some ways they're missing the mark, and they may even admit that, which is why they may sometimes seek counsel on these things.

But just what compelled you specifically about the mission to write this.

Book? Well, I know that our church could not be unique in the fact that it had allowed the world's model of leadership, membership, and structure to infiltrate and overtake the biblical model, right? And this is where the term biblically functioning church came from.

I say even to this day, we are striving to be a biblically functioning church. I would never say to somebody, we're perfect. We are a perfectly biblically functioning church, because I wouldn't be so foolish as to express that amount of hubris.

But I think every church should be striving to be more biblically functioning, right? So I know somebody even told me the other day, that's a really long title, a biblically functioning church. Like it is, it's sort of, you know, it's not pithy.

It's kind of verbose. But the idea is that's a model, right? We are seeking after biblical functionality. And so with that, I say no matter where you are, there's always something in churches that I think the book will speak to.

And I mean, I know some really great churches and some really great denominations, you know, and I would never say, you know, well, I think this could, you know, solve their problems. But an example might be this.

I have friends in different churches who are all going through different things. I have churches who are fighting the egalitarian battle, right? I have friends who are fighting the battle of wanting to have plurality of elders, but they've never had that.

So they don't know what that looks like. And I've got friends who are dealing with something as simple as how do we, you know, what does money look like? And I know that seems like a small thing, and I think that's like chapter nine in the book.

It's like one of the later chapters. But I do deal with how does a functioning church support itself? And that was actually based on a question I had one time from a youth group member, one of our kids in the church.

I was talking about church funding and how we fund programs, and he raised his hand. He said, I thought the church was funded by the government. And I said, you've never been so wrong in your life. Like you've missed that completely.

And I said, we've never received a dime from the government, right? Like the church is fully funded through members who support the ministry. But what does that look like? Is the Old Testament tithe the model, right?

Like, is that what we should be doing? And I talk about that in the book. And I talk about the difference between compulsory giving and voluntary giving. What does the New Testament teach? So these are all things I think when people come to a better understanding of, it helps work these things out, especially the question of convictions and how to work out our convictions in our lives.

So like I said, what compelled is the need is everywhere. It just is different everywhere. Some churches have no problem with egalitarianism, but they got heavy-handed leadership. That's a big problem in churches right now is they sometimes get pastors who want to be Protestant popes, right?

They want to be one-man armies that don't receive any type of authority or accountability from elders who share their same authority in the church. They want to be the top dog. And I talk about that as well.

I talk about the danger of the single pastor model where who has no accountability. And so those are just a few things.

And you mentioned something that is highly sensitive, and we didn't discuss this before the show, so I'm not even sure if I'm stepping on your toes or not. But when you mentioned how does the church fund itself, even amongst some very biblically sound churches, there are differences of opinion as to the length of liberty, where, of course, primarily most churches, I'm assuming, are funded by the voluntary giving of congregations, congregational members.

But there are churches that have carnivals in their parking lot. There are churches that do all kinds of things where they are basically trying to recruit donations from the lost and, of course, they will put a good motive into it by saying, this is an opportunity for us to evangelize to, for us to hand out tracts, for us to invite people to worship services.

So I'm not asking that question with necessarily a convinced, made-up mind either way. I have much more of an openness to that for parachurch groups, and, of course, there are Christians that don't believe that there should be such a thing as parachurch groups.

But what's.

Your thoughts on that? You know, I haven't given much thought to doing, like, fundraisers for raising money for the church. Our church has done some events to raise money for individuals, like had a young girl who had cancer, and their family was trying to get some experimental treatments that insurance wouldn't cover.

So we opened that up to the community. We said, if anybody wants to come support this girl, we will have this event. And we did a silent auction and all this stuff where people donated things, but we didn't take any money as a church from that.

That was all given to that little girl's family because we thought, you know, the community would want to be involved in loving this family and showing support. I'm not sure how I feel about the church using it as a revenue stream.

I'd have to think more on that. That's just not something that we have done. We've been blessed with not needing to do that as far as for meeting our needs in the church. And we've gone through some very lean years, as I imagine a lot of smaller churches have, where, you know, we didn't buy a lot of extra toilet paper that year.

But, you know, the closest thing I would say that we ever did in anything like that was my predecessor. This wasn't with me, but my predecessor, there was a faith-based initiative under George W. Bush where they were doing some faith-based stuff for churches.

And he ended up getting money to build a playground, and we did do that. And it was a playground for the community. That playground ended up going away. We don't even have it anymore. But that was, you know, 30 years ago now.

We're talking, you know, mid -90s when that was. So that's my only experience with that, and that's as much as I can say to it. I wouldn't condemn it, only to say it seems to me like if we're doing evangelism, that should be something we would want to do with as little cost to the people as possible.

Like, if we do a carnival, we want to fund it so that people come and have a good time and hear the gospel rather than making them pay for it. That would be my initial thought. But again, like you, I haven't really heard arguments for it, and I don't want to be like the proverb says, you know, the one who speaks without hearing the other side.

You know, I'd have to think more on that one. One thing I can say makes me uncomfortable,.

Having been raised Roman Catholic, is the carnivals that my parish, as a young man and a little boy, uh, the carnivals that they would put on would include gambling. It's kind of, you know, roulette wheels and all kinds of stuff, and it, to me, is quite bizarre that a church would be raising.

Money in that way. But, you know, we are talking…. Can I tell a quick story? Just last week, I was in Reno, Nevada, because I was preaching out in Nevada, and I had never been in a casino before. I'd never even seen one, because again, I've lived in Florida my whole life, and I got off the plane, and as soon as I got off the plane, there were roulette wheels, or not roulette, there were slot machines in the lobby of the airport.

And I was like, this is wild. I've never even seen anything like that. So that's interesting that you mentioned.

Gambling. In fact, I have to confess that as a teenager, I did doctor a lotto ticket, and the guy behind the counter, or whatever you want to call it, under the tent, he immediately yelled out that I was a winner, and then he was like, wait a minute, and he realized that I had doctored the amount of money that I allegedly won.

But, you know…. Are we doing confession time, Chris?

That could really get a lot of people listening. Yeah, that only happened after I got tanked up from the beer they were selling at the carnival. But anyway, one of the areas of great controversy that you've already mentioned, and perhaps you could go into it a little further, is the belief in the plurality of elders.

This is a new idea to a lot of churches, even though it's been a concept and an adopted form of church polity for centuries, and of course we believe it's biblical. But why did this become so important to you,.

The plurality of elders? One of the things that I recognized early on in ministry is that not only is this job impossible really to do alone—you need godly men around you for a multitude of reasons—but also, as you said, to me it was so obviously scriptural that this job was not meant to be done alone.

I was fortunate that when I came into this church as the pastor in 2006, there was already a group called the elders, but I was unfortunate in that the elders weren't functioning like elders. So even though we had this group, and as I said earlier, it was like a spiritual advisory committee—that was about the best you could say that they did.

They didn't preach, they didn't teach, they just sort of gave spiritual oversight. I saw what they could be, and what the Bible called them to be, but what they weren't at the time. By looking at that, I said, there's a need here, the Bible has given us a need, and we're not fulfilling it.

So let's begin with the most basic thing, and that is that a pastor is an elder, and an elder is a pastor. There's an argument that can be made scripturally from this, but there's three words. There's the word for pastor, there's the word sometimes translated bishop, which is episkopos, or overseer, and then there's the word that's translated elder, which is presbyteros.

Those three words are used differently, but also interchangeably, to show that it's one office. There's a great, online, there's a great Venn diagram that shows how each one of them is used separately, but then there's times where all of them are used concurrently.

They're used together to speak at the same office. Titus does this, and some other places as well. So with that, that became the driving force. I said, one, the single pastor model puts a lot of investment and pressure on the single individual, but it also means it's easy.

Authority is a dangerous drug, Chris, you know that. I mean, you've seen men, I know you have, in your long time of ministry and radio, you've seen men who have allowed authority to go to their head. I know one person that you and I are friends with, and I won't mention his name, but this guy has told me stories of people that he has met, and one guy in particular said, who is the congregation to question what I say?

I went to seminary. I know my Bible. Who are they to call into question my teaching? And I remember when he told me that story, I said, I can't believe anybody would think that way. But then I said, no, I really can.

I really can. It didn't take long before I started to imagine people.

Saying that. That's the way Paul responded, didn't he, when the Babylonians were asking questions?

And I just remember specifically thinking to myself, I need somebody who can tell me no. I need somebody who can tell me if I got it wrong, and that wouldn't be afraid, that they're not here to flatter me.

They're not here to tell me how good I am. They're not here to tell me how great the sermons are. They are here to do a couple of things. One, they're here to be my sounding board, even before I go to preach.

There are times when I'm going to preach something. I call my elders. I say, hey, I want to say this. What do you think about this? Do you agree with what the conclusion that I've come to? Do you agree with this?

And so they're my sounding board. They're also my correction. Now, I'll take correction from anybody. If the congregation, somebody from the congregation wants to meet with me and talk to me, I'll listen to them.

But the elders, that's their job. They know that I expect that of them. And my wife, I'll say that about her too. She's the most honest. But then the third thing is just to have somebody to help you carry the load.

It's sort of the Moses holding up his arms. My fellow elders have said that and use that very image with me. They've said, we understand you have a role that you're doing most of the preaching. And I do talk about that.

The fact that even though there's an equality among us, usually there's one who sort of is the mouthpiece, the one who is the one who's out front a little bit more. That doesn't mean I have more authority, but I do have more opportunity to speak.

And so they feel like a lot of times they're beside me holding up my arms. So that it's not bearing the burden alone. So all these things just fit together. And the Bible says, this is the way to do it.

And the way to do it makes perfect sense. And it seems to be that it comes with so many benefits. And I know a very little struggle. The only struggle I could think would be with a man who doesn't want accountability and he doesn't have to answer to anybody.

And I think in that situation, a plurality of elders is not going to be his first choice. And I'm not saying that everybody who doesn't want a plurality of elders, let me correct myself. I'm not saying that people who don't want a plurality of elders are automatically haughty or prideful men, but I would ask, what is it that you don't want?

What of the benefits do you think don't outweigh the detriments? What would be the detriment to a plurality of elders?

And let me take advantage of this opportunity to give a shout out to my old friend, Andy Montoro, who is one of your elders, who was actually one of my late wife Julie's pastors on Long Island back in the 80s, and have many wonderful memories of Andy and Candy and having meals with them in their home and so on.

And I can still remember Andy sitting on the steps of the church with me. I think he called me up and said he wanted me to meet with him or something. This is when I was dating Julie, and he said, well, brother, what are your intentions?

He was very protective of Julie, and he said to me, she thinks that you're an answer to her prayers to God, and I'm just looking out for her to make sure that that is true. And so, a lot of respect for Andy, and I know that providentially, he came to be acquainted with you when I invited him to join me at a James White conference at your church.

Yep, and he's been here now for almost 10 years, I guess it's been, and served alongside of me, and he's one of those guys who holds up my hands, and he preaches for us, and he's been a very good friend to me.

And one of the most supportive men in one very specific area, he has been so good about encouraging the church to support our family well, and the church has. I'm full-time in ministry, and Andy came out of, he retired from Penske trucking, so he had a corporate job, and he understands what it takes to raise a family and what a man needs to provide for his family.

And so, Andy has many times sort of stood up, him and Mike, both of my elders have stood up and appealed to the church to be generous in supporting me. And I tell you what, to have a guy like that is hugely valuable, because I've heard of churches that, the old joke is the congregation will say to God, you keep them humble and we'll keep them poor.

But thankfully, I've had men who have been concerned about my family's needs and saw to it that they've been met, and I couldn't have asked for more love to my family than that. Well, hopefully one of these days, I'll be able.

To meet Mike Collier, the other elder that you were speaking of. I've not met him yet, unless I met him before he was an elder there, when I was visiting your church many years ago. But this leads me to a next connected question, but I'll have you answer it when we come back from our first commercial break, and that is the parity of the elders.

Not all churches that have adopted a plurality of elders believe in the parity of elders, that they have an equal authority, although having different gifts are used in different ways. But we'll have you address that when we come back from our commercial break.

If you'd like to join us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question is personal and private. Let's say you fear that the church where you're a member is not functioning biblically, and obviously we wouldn't want you to identify yourself, which would by default identify the church where you're a member, and we don't want to do that.

So, you may remain anonymous if you are compelled to do so. But if it's a general question, give us your first name at least, city and state, country of residence. Don't go away. We're going to be right back right after these messages.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my New York debates.

I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the holy scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net. That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711. That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I'm Simon O'Mahoney, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's Word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune God.

We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ. In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every Sunday.

We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org. That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

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Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight-volume commentary on the Theology and Ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism, titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis, as well as historical and systematic theology. Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

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Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Paifa of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you.

Hello, this is Brian Nye, President of Hearts for the Lost Ministry. Our sole mission is to serve the local church and work directly with and alongside pastors and elders with their efforts to equip, excite, and educate their flock in biblical evangelism.

We also provide practical experience opportunities in sharing the gospel directly within your immediate community. We accomplish this mission with training and Christ-centered outreach events designed to equip the church and proclaim the good news of the gospel.

Our services are always 100 free. If you're looking to equip and mobilize your church for faithful gospel witness, please partner with us. Hearts for the Lost Ministry, serving the church, proclaiming the gospel.

Contact us today at heartsforthelost .com. That's heartsforthelost .com. Now, have a heart and go share your faith.

And Brian Nye, if you're listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio Live right now, I'm looking forward to seeing you and your wife right after this broadcast. Thank you so much for inviting me to dinner tonight, and I'm looking forward to the time of fellowship with you.

And if you just tuned us in, our guest today is Keith Foskey, one of three elders. At the Sovereign Grace Family Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and we are discussing the theme of his new book, A Biblically Functioning Church.

If you have a question, submit it to chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Before you answer the question about the parody of the elders, I forgot to mention something very important about your activities.

Your Calvinist YouTube.

Channel. Tell us about that. Yeah, so Your Calvinist is my title of my show, and it's also the title of my channel. And it is a place where I go to not only talk about theology and to teach, but also to have fun.

We have a humor ministry. As you mentioned earlier, I think when you introduced me, I was not only my pastor and podcaster, but I'm also a humorist. I'm a comedian. I do funny things. I know that sounds silly to say, but I do stand-up comedy, and it's part of just a desire that I have.