John Tucker Interview - 2021

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

Apostle Paul said, But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry.

My name is Mike Abendroth, and I love it when I have guests on, especially when I know the guest, and that if I ask the guest a question that's offensive or stupid or foolish or anything, they won't bar me, because we're already friends.

So with that introduction, John Tucker, welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. Thank you,

Mike. I'm sorry, you know, I know you're a lawyer, you're a pastor, very dignified, you know, and so with that introduction, you know, who knows where this show's going to go.

Long time no see. It's going to be fun. Tell our listeners when we saw each other last. We were together at the recent

Ligonier Conference in Orlando. I thought you were going to say we were together for the Gospel. Oh, well, never, that way.

Oh, yeah, we got to hang out a little bit at Ligonier Conference in Orlando. We probably would have hung out more if I would have brought my wife like you did.

Yeah, and you had your wife with you and two stuff, so that was nice for you, but yeah, we got to spend an evening together and time at the conference together, so that was always a good thing.

Well, it'd be more fun if I had my wife there. We could pal around, but I guess second to having a wife there, we have the bike.

So that's kind of how I rank things. The wife and the bike. We won't tell her that.

Okay, good. Well, she never listens to the show anyway, so she said, I live with the show.

She said, I don't need to listen to the show. John, in all seriousness,

John and I know each other for many years now through No Compromise Radio Ministry, matter of fact, and I think we first met at the

Shepherds Conference, and the Lord has bonded our hearts together for gospel ministry. John is a pastor in Beloit, Ohio, south of Cleveland at Community, is it

Community Bible? Is that the name of it? Yeah, Community Bible Church. Yeah, Community Bible Church, and so I've been there to preach, and John has been here to preach.

Actually, when I say my friend, the lawyer, Pastor John, they're like, is that that lawyer's view of Romans?

They remember the sermon, by the way, so good job. Well, thank you. Great to be there. I enjoyed it.

So anyway, there's a conference coming up, and Lord willing, this April 2021,

I will arrive in Cleveland and stay in Cleveland for the conference, unlike the last time.

Tell our listeners a little bit about the conference that you have planned coming up in April. Yeah, this is our second

Pillars of the Faith conference. Of course, you'll be there to speak, you're going to be talking about the distinction between the law and the gospel, and the importance of that, so April 23rd through the 25th starts on a

Friday at 6 .30 p .m. at the church, and resumes on Saturday the 24th at 9 a .m.

It'll go to approximately 12 to 1 -ish timeframe, and then again on Sunday, you'll be preaching for the main worship service.

We're also going to have a young fellow there at the church named Nathan Parsons. He has an organization called

The Truth Remains. He has a collection of historical Bibles that he'll have on display at the church, and these are very significant

Bibles, the Temple New Testament, the Matthews Bible, and original King James Version Bibles, the

Geneva Bible, and these will all be on display for people to see. He'll be talking about the history of these

Bibles, the significance, and the history of the church, and propagation of the gospel, and importantly, the people who gave their lives in compiling these

Bibles and translating them into the English language. So, I've had the occasion to see these

Bibles before at another conference, and they were just quite remarkable. It's a real treasure that he has.

He does a great job of making a presentation about, like I said, the history of those Bibles. He'll be doing that on Sunday morning during the

Sunday school class, and also briefly on Friday evening, he'll have an opportunity to talk about them.

They'll be on display there at the church for the entire conference, and people can come in and look at them. He'll even have some

Bibles from that era, the 1500s, 1600s, that you can handle, and kind of like pocket -type

Bibles that people carried with them, and oftentimes were even used to be smuggled.

They were made smaller so they could be easily transported and concealed and taken from town to town and country to country.

So, a really unique opportunity. So, great gospel preaching from my dear friend

Mike, and he did a great job last time. I know that folks are really blessed and they're excited about it, and the opportunity to look at these historical

Bibles, which are significant for us. So, it's going to be a great time, and we'll have some books for sale.

Your books will be there for sale, Mike, and some others from reliable authors. We're very concerned about getting good books into people's hands, and we want them to have good resources.

So, books that kind of run with the theme of the conference will be available for people to purchase and to use as well.

So, hopefully folks can come and participate, that would be wonderful. John, if they want to register, what's the website name again?

The Church's website is thecommunitybiblechurch .com. It's quite long, but it's all one phrase, thecommunitybiblechurch .com.

And there'll be information there about the conference. There's no registration required, so just come if you're able, and the

Times will be there as well, and directions for where the Church is located. And as Mike noted, we're southeast of Cleveland, about 65 miles.

We're east of Chanton, Ohio, slightly west of Youngstown, about an hour and a half from Pittsburgh.

And so, out in the country a little bit, but on a main highway, it's not hard to get to at all.

And there's ample places to stay close by. There are hotels in a town called

Alliance, Ohio, which is just west of us, about five miles. There's several hotels there in that area that people can stay, and if they wanted to come and get there ahead of time and spend the weekend there, they would be able to do that.

Well, that sounds great. I'm looking forward to it, John. I also want to encourage those that are listening in that,

I don't know what you call it, area, tri -city area, whatever, between Pittsburgh and Cleveland and around there, if you're a pastor or an elder or a deacon or a leader in the

Church, it'd be a good conference for you to go to in terms of the theme, especially because this issue needs to be dealt with.

Law, gospel, sanctification, who is the sanctifier? What's our response? Is sanctification synergistic?

This is a very—well, it's good for laypeople, certainly. They need to know it, but leaders do as well.

So if you're a pastor or a leader around town, I'd love to invite you.

And especially, I heard from behind the scenes that John told me that the young man who has all the

Bibles that we can peruse will also have original dispensational charts from Darby back in the 1800s of the

Book of Revelation. Yeah. We're really excited about that. That's going to be a primary feature.

In fact, Mike, we might cancel a couple of your sessions. That is so funny.

I don't know why I have it, but I have a Harry Ironside illustrative chart of the Book of Revelation right here in my studio, so I was making me think about it.

Well, you know, I did the five -part series on law, gospel for American gospel films, but you have to pay to watch those.

So, you know, we'll pay you, dear listener, if you come to this conference. Is there a lunch?

Is there a Chick -fil -A lunch? Because, you know, I can't eat what the normal people eat at conferences. I need to have the sushi catered and all that, so don't forget to tell your people.

Yeah, you'll be eating what we eat, Mike, and I'm sure you'll be well taken care of that way.

But we are having a luncheon after church on the Sunday service, so people are welcome to stay for that. We've got some fine folks in the church who are going to be preparing a meal and some opportunity to get together, meet you, talk to you, and just have time of fellowship with the folks who are there.

So we hope folks would come and stay for that and get to know us in Beloit, Ohio. So we're really excited about the last conference.

It was just phenomenal. The response was really significant, and people are excited in the community about it.

I've gotten a lot of folks who've reached out to me about wanting to attend and looking forward to attending. So no pressure,

Mike, but the spotlight is on. Okay, good. I'll shine my shoes and reboot my iPad.

That's right, that's right. I had a great... It's such a great topic, too. It's one of those issues,

I think, that's so pertinent for the Church right now, and you know, I think Spurgeon said something along the lines that he who understands the law and the gospel is a master of divinity.

So that's something that's important for us to understand, and really is central to being able to identify error today, which is really increasingly prevalent through different perspectives on justification, sanctification, federal vision, things of that nature that are being foisted upon the

Church as legitimate interpretations of Scripture, which they're not. So true, talking to Pastor John Tucker today from Beloit, Ohio, and one of the things

I notice as well, John, is when you think about law gospel and how you rightly talked about the importance of such a topic,

I mean, we could make it as simple as this. If someone comes to you, dear listener, and says, I have a problem with pornography, if you're not careful, you'll give them the wrong advice.

It might be from a good motive. It might be with a Bible verse, even. But if you don't understand how the law gospel works in sanctification, if you don't understand who the sanctifier is, you're going to give them the wrong answer.

I think another one is with parents. Parents, if they don't understand this topic, they end up telling their children what to do, and shake hands firmly on Sunday.

Open up the door for people that are in handicapped spots. Ask people how their week went. Push in your chair when you're done.

Smile to the visitors. All those are fine things to say, but in the category of law, that's just what they are, law.

And so, if we frame things rightly and understand a law gospel paradigm, then it's, children,

I love you, and I'm delighted that the Lord has given me you, and I prayed for you before you were even born, and I'm so proud to be called your dad, and all these things, then this is how

I want you to act. Very, very critical for all areas, marriage, parenting, anything that comes to sanctification.

So, this is one of my favorite topics to talk about, and so I'm glad, John, you chose that, and I thought, what's that Indiana Jones deal?

You have chosen wisely. Wisely. So, John, you've been on the...

Would you... Sorry, go ahead. Would you mind just sharing, do you have the titles to your different topics that you're going to be covering available or handy to you?

Well, you know, maybe I'll put them in the liner notes or something on the show. I don't think I have them handy here.

Okay. But themes of sanctification, I am going to do one session on Saturday that's not necessarily exposition.

Most of my... Like, if somebody asked me, and I know you do the same thing, John, would you come and talk about a topic, the new birth?

Well, I'll walk through either Titus 3 or John 3, because I want people to be exposed to the text about that subject.

There's nothing wrong with a topical sermon that's textually based. Topic of new birth,

I work through John 3, because I want them to see for themselves what God's word says about that.

So, most of the time, I try to drive things home like that in an expositional setting. But I'm going to do an exception, because it's a conference on Saturday, common errors when it comes to sanctification.

And I'm going to run out of time, because we have so many errors. Right, if the

Lord thinks this is such an important topic, of course, Satan comes along, our own flesh, our own desires, and we run with it the wrong way.

And so, there's a debate when it comes to sanctification. And most people, I'll just give this kind of preview for the conference, most people are functional

Wesleyans when it comes to sanctification. They say they're Reformed, they believe the five solas, but they're functional

Wesleyans and Methodists. And so, I want to kind of work through that a little bit.

And I think if you show up, you'll be glad you did. I don't mean you, John. Are you going to be there? I'm not sure yet,

Mike. Absolutely. Oh, that's great.

Now, you've been on the show before, so some of our listeners know your background. But for those that are just tuning in,

A, shame on them, but B, tell us a little bit about your ministry, John. Maybe there's some people that can come to the conference, but also maybe there's some people around Cleveland that are looking for a church that preaches

Christ Jesus verse by verse. Could you tell us about the ministry that the Lord has given you there in Beloit?

Yes, I'd be happy to. I've been the pastor there now five years, and we are basically

Reformed in our approach to salvation and church structure in that context.

We are expositional in our preaching in terms of working through books of the

Bible. I'm currently in Colossians, working through that, preaching through that epistle. We have a very robust Sunday school program.

The children are working through the catechism and just being taught through the different portions of Scripture that pertain to different Bible stories that they need to be familiar with and things of that nature.

We have an adult Sunday school class at least every Sunday morning at 9 .15, and then we have worship at 10 .30.

So just a great group of people, a heart for the Lord, a real desire to hear the

Word preached, and they give me the opportunity to do that every Sunday. So as Steve Blossom would say, we let the lion roar every

Sunday, and I'm grateful for the opportunity. I've really enjoyed it. I practice as an attorney as well, but the highlight of my week is always on Sundays to get to open

God's Word to people and point them to Christ. And that's really the focus, too. We want people to love the

Lord Jesus Christ, understand who He is, what He did, His perfect obedience for us and on our behalf.

We're definitely imputationists, and we're proud of that. So if you're looking for a solid church, we're not woke, we're not social justice warriors, we're not buying into that nonsense.

We look to Christ and Christ alone, and we rely upon Him for the work and for the progress.

Amen. Well, that's the kind of church I'd like to be at, and we'll be there very soon, Lord willing.

John, I like the way you do your Sunday school class for the adults. Tell us a little bit more specifically what that looks like, you know, because it's not like you're just teaching through another book.

You have some introductory comments and things about books and other things. Give me a little preview or an overview.

What would a Sunday school class look like for the adults? Yes, typically what

I do is I open up the Sunday school class with a discussion regarding some recent topics of concern to the church, whether it's with regard to the impact of woke theology or social justice theology impact on the church, some of the drift that we're seeing with those who would hold themselves out to be leaders in the church, other cultural or social issues that are impacting the church

I typically address. It can take anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes to go over those items at the beginning of the class, just to keep people informed.

There's a lot happening that I think we all need to be alert to, and if we don't know about them, we can't react to them, we can't respond to them according to Scripture, and so I will address these issues and then look to a biblical position with Scripture talks about with regard to a particular issue, whether it be those who would advocate some form of Christianity that's inconsistent with Scripture or an idea that's inconsistent with Scripture in regards to responding to certain cultural issues and things of that nature.

And then we would work through a particular book that we're looking at currently, we're in 2

Peter right now, we're in 2 Peter chapter 2, and so again, that's more of a verse -by -verse type of approach as well, and we work through those epistles and different books of the

Bible that way. It's typically open for comments and questions, people can ask questions and kind of an opportunity for people to interject their questions and respond to them according to Scripture.

Well, I love that kind of format, and you know what it made me think of when you were talking, John, is if you like No Compromise Radio, then you should get 20 minutes of John Tucker's no -co -intro to Sunday School, because that's essentially what we're doing here on the radio show in many instances.

Here's what's going on, here's how we should think about it through a biblical worldview, and so I like that.

What kind of catechism do you use for the young people? Would that be the New City Catechism with Tim Keller? What would that be?

Yeah. Yeah, we have that. We have the Golden Gilded Copy. Oh! That one. No, we don't.

We use the Shorter Catechism and Spurgeon's Catechism as well, so we have a combination of those two that we've worked with with the kids, and it's been really remarkable.

One of the highlights of the year is when the kids, at the end of the Sunday School, we have kind of a year -end thing in May that we do, and the kids come up and the teachers ask them the catechism questions, and these kids just do a remarkable job from memory going through the catechism, responding from memory to each of the questions in the catechism, and it's just been a real blessing.

The church has been excited about it. The kids are learning so much, and they remember so much.

This is going to have an impact on them for a very, very long time, and I know the parents are being blessed by it, too, because they're working with the kids at home, so that's an exciting part of our ministry with the kids at the church.

Well, back to the conference for a second, and maybe it already will sound self -serving from the get -go, but I think

I'll say it anyway. John, you and I just were at Orlando at the Ligonier Conference, and of course we love

Bible preaching and some of those really gifted men we could learn a lot from, but there's a sense to those conferences with 3 ,000, 4 ,000 people, how do you ever go talk to the speaker?

Can you say after Lawson's message on work, could I ask you a question about that, or what about my particular situation?

I guess that's just kind of built in, but if I'm ever going to speak to 3 ,000 people, I would just kind of mill around, and I think the good thing is a conference at Community Bible, because it is a community, and we're going to have, what, 300 max people there, 200 to 300, something like that, 150,

I'm not sure. We're there, not only to hand the Bible to people to say, this is a

Geneva Bible, but also, oh, you have a question about sanctification. We want to answer that, and I could answer it, or John could, we want to be approachable, and I've signed the contract for 20 minutes after each message to talk to people, and then

I need that carbon fiber bike. So, at least you get 20 minutes at a conference like this. Yeah, we're still working on the carbon fiber bike.

It might not be quite fully carbon fiber, but we're working on that. I think last time,

John, I rode your son's bicycle. Is that still around? It is, actually, yeah. It's here for you. It's all ready to go.

So, pump the tires up, and you can jet off down the street. Well, I remember driving down these roads, because, you know, you're out in kind of country area, and I remember just, you know, the roads were north, south, east, west, and just,

I would just go for hours pedaling while you and Evan were talking about fine points of,

I don't know what, Cuban cigars, maybe? We were just talking about you. Oh, yeah. Well, there's a lot to talk about, and my flesh wants there to be even more.

No, but you're right. You're so right about the conference, too. I mean, this is one of the nice things about this conference is that folks will be able to interact with you and with me and with other people who love the

Lord, and we're going to have a Q &A session, and so people can ask questions, you know, and pick your brain about different ideas and struggles or questions they have about Scripture.

So, it's very personal. The Church is very, we're very friendly folks out here. We love the Lord, and I think people will be very happy with the conference and the opportunity, and again, the

Bible collection is just amazing. I'm very excited about that. The topic and the combination of these old

Bibles like this is really quite a unique opportunity for people, so looking forward to it.

Well, John, we only have a few minutes to go, so this isn't really going to be fair, but could you give us a lawyer's perspective, a

Christian lawyer's perspective, on what do you think is going to happen in the next five to ten years when it comes to Equality Acts and other things that the administration that we have now is trying to ram through?

Obviously, we can hope and we have an earnest expectation for the Lord's return, but how bad do you think it's going to get if things go the way they're going now?

Well, it's going to be a real challenge, Mike. I'm very concerned as both a pastor and a lawyer.

I work a lot of area churches and Christian schools, and they're all very concerned right now about the trend that we're seeing.

The Equality Act, if it passes in the current form that has been proposed and has been discussed, is going to have a profound impact on how the

Church functions and what it can and cannot do in terms of ministry. It's the gateway to very restrictive regulation and oversight that could become quite problematic and I believe ultimately lead to pastors having to face some serious challenges with regard to what is said from the pulpit and how they handle certain topics and issues that are such hot -button issues right now in our culture.

And so, that coupled with appointment of judges to the federal courts through the

Biden administration is going to be extreme as well. And so, the Church is going to be facing some unique challenges with these recent developments and the outcome of the election.

So, making certain that you understand what you believe, what your Church holds to, making certain that your

Church's governing documents are in order, that you are articulating your sincerely held religious beliefs and convictions based on Scripture, that you really do know what you believe.

One of the things that's been shocking to me is meeting with different groups and organizations, and for the first time in a long time, they're actually having to think through what they believe.

And we as Americans have been given the opportunity to live without this type of scrutiny and persecution, and now we're going to be facing it, and people are truly going to have to be able to give an answer for the hope that is within them.

And that apologia, that apologetics approach that Peter speaks to in 1 Peter 3 .15, that's really a legal word that he uses there, to be an advocate, to be one who can articulate clearly their faith and their conviction based upon Scripture.

And so, it's good for the Church. I think it's going to make the Church stronger, purer, perhaps smaller, but that's okay.

And it's going to make us brighter. The light shines brightest in the darkness, and we're going to have a great opportunity to really do that.

But yeah, there's a lot coming. There's the Do No Harm Act, which is kind of under the radar, which is part of the

Equality Act, is equally problematic, if not more so, as it relates to incorporating identity politics into our discrimination laws, that's going to be significant for the

Church as well. And it's going to be interesting to see how the Church splits itself up over that issue as you see some portions of the

Evangelical Church drifting to the left and embracing these ideas while others are standing firm.

And I think we even see persecution coming from within the Church as people in the Evangelical circles point fingers at those of us who may not be willing to drift with them.

So, unique times ahead for the Church. John, great analysis.

Thank you for that. TheCommunityBibleChurch .com for directions or more information about the conference.

I look forward to seeing you and Nathan with all those Bibles, April 23rd through 25th this year, 2021.

And who knows, maybe this year we'll also go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame afterward, but I would never admit that on national radio.

Okay. We can do that again. Thanks a lot,

John. Have a good day. Thank you, Mike. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of God's Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston.

You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.