Caleb Gordon's Blueprint for Impact: Transforming Community Through Conversations

Welcome to The Rap Report with your host, Andrew Rappaport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of striving for eternity and the Christian podcast community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

Well welcome to another edition of The Rap Report. I'm your host, Andrew Rappaport, the Executive Director of Striving for Eternity and the Christian podcast community, of which this podcast is a proud member.

We are here to give you biblical interpretations and applications for the Christian life, and I am joined by my friend of one year, Caleb Gordon. How you doing, Pastor?

I'm wonderful, my friend. Happy anniversary.

You reached out to me and said, hey, it's the one-year anniversary since we met, which meant it was a one-year anniversary since we recorded together. I said, well, why don't I have you on my podcast, because I think I was on yours last time and then replayed it on mine.

So this time, you're on my podcast. We'll see if he replays it on his.

We'll see if we can make it happen.

It cracked me up because social media gives you, hey, here's your memories, and we met officially at Fight Laugh Feast last year in Fort Worth, Texas, and you were incognito because you had a beard, and I did not recognize you, and you were at my table for 20 minutes.

I was on podcast row, and I was just standing there. You came to my table and just visiting me like just all home week, and I was just like, he just introduced himself as Andrew, and I was like, okay, cool, this is Andrew.

That's fantastic. I'm really glad to meet you, Andrew. Thanks for coming by my table. And then Greg walks by and goes, what's Greg Moore from Walking Dead Man. Walking walks.

By.

He's like, what's up, Brad Purport? And I was like, wait a second, my brain connected, like the two hemispheres connected. It was like, Andrew, wrap up.

Wait a second.

I know this guy. I've watched your stuff online. And then as soon as I started looking at you again through that lens, I was like, oh, okay, holy cow. He's standing at my table.

What's up?

And I said, wait, you're Andrew Rappaport? And you said, yeah, most people get over pretty quick.

Well, hey, it's good having you on this way. You know, my audience can get to know a little bit about you. First off, you are a pastor. So let's talk about the church you're pastoring, which, by the way, folks, you know, I travel one hour to church because I'm in a good church.

I moved.

And so I'm not going to leave the church that's good. So my bride and I travel one hour, one way, at least two days a week. This week will be three. But we do that because that's what you do for a good church.

But you're the reverse. You pastor a church that's an hour away. So let's talk about your church first, and then why you're in Bartlettsville, because you have some history there. Bartlesville.

Everybody calls it Bartlettsville because that's phonetically how it's spelled. So Bartlesville. But it's fine.

I don't care.

He says he doesn't care. But notice he corrected me. How fast he correct. He corrected me as fast as a Democrat complains about Trump.

It's all.

Never mind.

I'm going to be quiet. OK, so my church, I've been pastoring for six years. October is our sixth year anniversary there. We have had a blast there. We love the people. He was the wildest. I used to just do a ton of itinerant speaking, pulpit filling, things of that nature.

I mean, I was at my dad's church. That was our home churches of my my dad, pastor at Trinity Baptist Church for almost thirty five years. He went to glory in twenty twenty one. But that's where our home church was.

So we just that's where we landed. That's where we spent time ministering there and helping there. But I was often traveling and speaking in different circuits, in different places, different.

Churches.

And there was a lady who played piano at my dad's church. And she said, I guess, and she grew up in the church that I'm now pastoring. And so there was a group of people that were as if you're not a Baptist, it's called the search committee.

And there was a search committee and a pulpit fill committee. If you're a Baptist, you've got to have at least 15 committee committees.

And then you need the committees to decide which committees you should have.

Yes. Yes.

So there's we're we're setting up all there's all these committees and there's a lady on one of the committees for the pulpit supply. And Marjorie gave my name to Pam and Pam called me one summer afternoon was like, hey, you don't know me, but we're I'm part of the pulpit fill committee at my church, First Baptist Church in Cedarville, Kansas.

And we would love it if you'd come fill our pulpit for a couple of Sundays in July. We need some pulpits, pulpit supply. I said, let me look at my calendar, make sure. Sure enough, I had the time. So I said, sure, I'll come those two Sundays.

I preach, I get off of the stage, I come out and it's you've been there and you've preached in the church. So, you know, I came off the platform and there was this lady and she just said, the Lord's impressed.

The Lord is impressed upon me, which I'm immediately going, oh, God told me or the Lord impressed.

Upon me.

The Lord spoke to me. I'm immediately like, yeah, I don't know about that. It's probably not going to, that's probably not true. But she said, the Lord impressed upon me. I think you're going to be our pastor.

And I was like, yeah, I don't think so. I'm in love. I love what I'm doing. It's going to be I'll enjoy doing what I'm doing. I'm in a healthy church environment. I'm not interested in, I don't know you people.

And she was like, well, when she goes, just the old old Baptist lady, she's like, well, we'll see about that. And I just was like, that's, that's so funny. And I came back and preached on and off there for a few months, actually, it was close to.

A year.

They went without a pastor for a year. And so I was off and on for a year filling the pulpit. And I was, I was working at the time I was working in the oil field world. I was doing pipeline oil. Gosh, I just went.

Pig tracking is what it's called. I know this is pig. I'm tracking pig PIG and it's like a, it's an electronic device that goes through the oil pipes that deliver oil and it checks the integrity of the walls and make sure there's no cracks.

And all I had to do was sit and wait for it to go by and log it in a spreadsheet made insane money, like dumb money, but I was never home.

Okay.

So, so I just, and so I was home one weekend and asked me to preach and I was like, okay. And they, then they, they called after that, that next week they said, would you just come visit with us? We got, we want to visit with you about being our pastor.

Just come up and visit with us. You've been doing this almost a year. Just come visit with us, please. And I was like, okay, cool. All right, fine. We'll come up. So Jamie and I drove up there and it was in September of 19 and end of September 19, almost, almost October, the end of September.

So before, before things, before people really lost their minds, this was before COVID. We thought people were insane back then, but we didn't really realize.

Yeah.

We didn't realize how common sense they were back then.

Yeah. Yeah.

A hundred percent. So we go up there, Jamie and I go up there and I'm thinking it's just going to be the search committee, right? They're going to just do a Q and A with us and ask us all the things. And I was like, okay, I'll, I'll kill this in Q and A.

I'm, I'm, I'm reformed. They're not going to like me. You know, all the things.

Right.

So I'm thinking I can just kill this in, in, in the, in the Q and A. I walk in, I mean, the outside of the church, there's cars everywhere. And I was like, Oh, this isn't just the search committee. I mean, these had, they had a dinner, Baptist had a dinner and the fellowship hall was slammed with people.

It was a three hour, no holds barred Q and A of everybody in the church. And I was like, awesome. And we just let it, I mean, every, and I just told him, I was like, nothing's off the table. What do you want to talk about?

Name it Clint. Let's go. Just let's go. How do you want to go? And so we get done and my wife, this, that is not my wife's wheelhouse. She's the behind the scenes, quiet, doesn't want the, doesn't want the stage, doesn't want the platform.

She doesn't want anything. She's like, I don't like this, Caleb. This is your wheelhouse. You're the guy in front. I don't like she's, I was like, you're with me, baby. She's like, I know, I know, but I'm just telling you, I don't like it.

So three hours of just asking every question. And because I'd been preaching there for almost a year, they knew about, they knew.

They knew who you, they knew you, you knew them a bit.

Yeah.

It wasn't me just walking in, just cold Turkey, just saying, Hey, I'm reformed. Here's all the things, right. And at that time was interesting. I wasn't, I wasn't post-mill by the, I was still dispensationalist.

So you went for, you were good when you got there and you lost it.

Yeah, sure.

So I had all the things, which is funny because there's a lot of folks that are in that church that are actually post-mill or all mill in that camp. There's a lot of post and all mill folks that are already there, which I did not know that.

Going in.

And so I was walking into some hostile territory and they didn't, but they were very gracious. They were very kind. But so we, we got through with the Q and a, and I'm just thinking, they just, I mean, they hugged us and said, thank you.

And that was it. There was no, Hey, we're going to get back with you. We're going to think about it. We're going to pray about it. We're going to, we're going to vote. We're going to do something. It was just as everybody gave us hugs and thanks for coming up.

And I was drove home. I was like, okay, maybe, maybe we're not going to, okay, cool. We'll just keep doing what we're doing. Cause I'm thinking in my head, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing anyways.

If I don't, if I don't get this, I'm going to continue doing what I have been doing for the last 12 years. And so I'll just, I'll just keep plugging along. We'll make it work. And, um, we basically told him what we could do, what we couldn't do at the time.

My parents' health was really, really bad. And so I was taking care of my parents and my brother and I were like between the two of us, we were tag team and taking care of my, my dad and his health. And so I was like, man, I'm not moving an hour away from my dad at this point in his.

Life.

I'm just, I'm just not going to do it because if something happens, I I'm literally five minutes from his house. Um, so, and then my, our kids were all just neck deep in school stuff and, and they had, I mean, just neck deep in all kinds of stuff.

So I was like, we're not uprooting people, especially if they're, one of them was a junior, one was a sophomore, one was a freshman. Then you got our Noah, our youngest, um, at the time. So he, I just was like, we're not going to do this.

So I told him what we could do, what we couldn't do, what we're willing to do. And he was like, man, I'm willing to be here at least two to three times a week. Um, you know, Sundays, Wednesdays, funerals, weddings, you name it, we'll, we can special events, whatever.

And I, we went home, well, that next Tuesday after the cell was like a Thursday night. So the, the, there's a Thursday night, so no, Saturday, that Saturday, I get a text message that just said, Hey, we're voting on you on Sunday.

I thought you were going to say, they said they already voted.

Well, no, they, if they waited until Sunday to do, they had a special business meeting on Sunday and they, and I had already made up in my mind, if it's not a hundred percent, I'm not going. Cause I'm not going to fight.

I'm just not going. And I didn't tell them that because I never want to like play my hands ahead of time. So that there's, you know, finagling or whatever. I just was like, in my mind, if it's not a hundred percent, yes, I'm just, I'm not going,.

I got it.

I just don't want to go. So, and I didn't tell them that nothing. So we are church. We're going to church. Afterwards, we went and ate at senior salsas, our favorite Mexican restaurant here in Bartlesville.

And I get a text message and it just says a hundred percent. Yes. When can you start? And I picked my phone up and I looked at Jamie and I was like, handed it to her. And I was like, crud, I guess we're going kid.

And we've been there six years. We haven't looked back and it's been fantastic. I've had a blast.

And you, you've been there through COVID and all that mess.

That was wild.

I mean, yeah, you were just, you're, I mean, you're the new pastor having to go through COVID and, and all that.

We, we went remote for a month and I, you know, I'm, and I'm watching guys like John MacArthur and I'm watching all these guys that are doing all these different things. And I, I'm like, I'm not gonna like, this is nuts.

I'm looking at the riots, I'm looking at all this stuff. I'm like, wait a second. I can go to Walmart, I can go to Home Depot, I can go to Lowe's, but we can't go to church. And I just said, we're opening back up.

Like we were shut down for a month, remote. We had remote services. And I just said, what we'll do is we'll, we'll do Facebook live. I'm here, doors are open, you can come. So they, people started slowly showing back up.

And then fast forward, people were like, oh, we love having Facebook live. We can watch you in our pajamas. And I was like, well, you shouldn't have told me that.

I shut Facebook live off.

Yeah, now we're not doing that.

Yeah.

We haven't done Facebook live since then. Well, I did, we did, we do it for like funerals if people are watching from Houston or whatever. So we do Facebook live for funerals, but we, we record the sermons and then we'll post them after the service.

So we shut down all our Facebook live stuff, man, we were running eight, 900 people watching on Sundays. And I was like, no, we're killing it. Like, cause people were that are local, they're sitting on the couch or laying in bed in their pajamas, not coming to church.

It's like, I'm not going to be that, I'm not going to be the pastor that allows you to have the excuse to stay home and not come be a part of the fellowship of the saints.

And that's something that speaks to your character because there's a lot of guys, if they're seeing 900 people watching, they start saying, Hey, I'm getting an audience. I'm going to placate to them. And I've seen guys who they're really not preaching to their church.

There's the preaching for who's watching online and that starts to, you start to lose where the focus is. If you're shepherding people, shepherd those people.

I love my people. Like, I genuinely love my people and they are just, they're salt of the earth, farmers and ranchers and just blue collar guys, nurses and teachers. And we've got, we've got a bunch of teachers in there and I just, you know, I love our Wednesday night.

We have Wednesday night Awana programs for our kids. There's 125 kids in the school system in that town, between 60 and 80 kids come every Wednesday.

Night.

So I get, I want to, I want to help so into and love the people in front of me. I've learned really quickly through having this podcast and my podcast and doing online things, people will praise you and it may, if you get built up and get excited about people's praise online, when they hate you, it'll kill you.

And so I'm like, well, or you just got to learn to ignore it.

I don't read the comments. I don't read comments.

Comments are stupid.

So people may be thinking, well, why don't you pick up and move closer to church? I mean, you're driving an hour one way to church several times a week. You got some history in Bartlesville, did I say it right this time?

So we moved here in 86. We have some really deep seat, deep seated connections here and, and things that we're, we do ministry stuff here that we've been doing for decades. And so we're still, we have, we are rooted in Bartlesville just because we've, we've been here forever and we know all the people.

My wife actually works for, she's a front office manager for one of the real estate agents here in town for Keller Williams. My son goes to school at Wesleyan Christian school. Still, I might have three, I have four kids total.

My, our three oldest are moved out. Two of them are married. I'm fixing to be a grandpa by the way. I can't wait. That's going to be awesome.

It is.

Trust me. It's the best.

I'm just saying.

I can't wait.

Just saying.

But you got to meet Gabe and Kenzie.

They were at the conference last year, but you're, I mean, your, your dad has some history.

There, right?

He was, he's, I mean, you're very well known because of your dad somewhat, but you know, also because you're, you're very active in your community for people listening, you know, when Caleb and I went around his town, like we're going into shops, everyone knows who.

He is.

Every, everyone knows him. If you listen to his podcast, he's interviewing the guy that runs the Chick-fil A there. He's, I mean, it's, it's, it was a lot of local people that, that know him well.

And so you had the roots there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But why, why didn't you pick up and move to be closer to the church? I mean, some, some would say, oh, but you could, you could do more if you're by the.

Church.

You could, you could minister more there.

Sure.

And I, and this, we had, I had to reevaluate a lot of things there because what works here ministry wise, doesn't work ministry wise in Cedarvale. Like they're just, it's a different mindset up there and that's not to knock them.

That's just who they are. And I had to, I had to learn it because I got frustrated in the beginning because I was trying to implement and do things that I've always done here. And they were like, why are we doing that?

I was like, it was like, Hey, we should go do a visitation night where we go knock on people's doors and talk to them, talk to them about Jesus. And they're like, why would you do that? I was like, well, I mean, we want to grow the church.

We want to get to know the community. They're like, no, no, no, no people. People are not interested in that. If you show up, that's actually going to give our church a bad name. People are not interested in hearing from anybody when they're home there because they're, everybody has to drive, you know, 45 minutes to an hour to go find work for the most part.

And so when they come home, they're like, I'm not interested in visiting. I'm not interested in being, I'm done. And so I just had to just, that was just how the mentality was of the town. And it's not, I mean, we've been doing it six years.

I've put a lot of miles on, on my cars because we do, I mean, we're up there two and three and four times a week.

Yeah.

And so we're there a lot. I mean, that's not a, like we, I just did a funeral for a sweet, sweet, sweet member of our church who's been there since she was a little kid. And just was a, she helped with the kids' Sunday school classes, helped with the music for the kids' choir, and did all these different things, single lady that just poured into kids.

She just, she loved on the babies and the kids and was just a sweet, sweet, sweet woman. And I was back and forth that week, multiple times, meeting with the family, having dinner, fellowshipping, doing all the things.

It just, you know, for me, it's just, it's just an, it's a 45 minute drive. So it's not, there's a lot of people that live in bigger cities, Dallas or New York or Jersey or whatever. They're driving at least 45 minutes to get to church.

And that's only two miles away.

Right?

Yeah.

You can probably walk it faster than driving. But yeah, that's so, I mean, we're, our mindset is, is we can still do ministry because we're still doing it. I mean, we're, we're doing, I mean, I was at a bonfire with a bunch of kids last night and we were hanging out with a ton of students last night at a bonfire fellowship.

And after, after the bonfire, right? You got into a nice cold plunge, correct? No, no. You got a cold plunge. I know that.

I do have a cold plunge. That's all your fault. I have it. I need to get it. I need to get it out. I have not got it out during the summer. Because I just, I feel like that's, that's not the real cold plunge because it's 112.

Here in summer.

Yeah.

Well, see, you got it.

Yeah.

You don't, the one I got you doesn't have a chiller. So you actually have to throw ice in. But in the winter, you know, it's fine.

Just.

Oh, it's great.

We went to that one time. Your sons had to break it up with a shovel because the ice was like seven inches thick.

Yeah.

We had, we had you, there was my, two of my sons and one of his buddies and they had an I, they had like a shovel and a couple of picks and they were just beating that thing.

Into it because I mean, the ice was, it was literally six or seven inches thick.

I mean, it was because it got so stinking cold, like right before you all got here. That's the weird thing about Oklahoma. March is usually start, they start to warm up, but there's usually like two weeks where it goes dumb and just freezes up and absolutely it is bananas when it comes to cold weather.

In March.

It's either, it's either springtime and beautiful or 30 below, like the coldest I've ever seen. It was like 28 below zero and we had like 17 inches of snow. So that, I mean, that's, I mean, it shuts the whole town down because we're not used to that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you, you, you're pastoring, but let's let.

Pastoring in Bartlesville and the Call to Ministry

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Let's talk, I mean, I know there's some things we want to talk about, but I should, we should mention the podcast, Caleb Gordon podcast. It's obviously you're very creative on the names.

You're the reason we, I, you are the reason I changed the name. It used to be called the Northfield podcast and people were, I always thought it was like a big, deep spiritual meeting. What's it mean by the Northfield?

Does that mean like heaven or what does that mean? It's like, no, my wife, when we were dating, she lived in an apartment complex called the Northfield duplexes. And I just thought that would be a cool name for something one day.

And I called it the Northfield podcast after my wife's duplexes, she used to live in.

Has a lot of meaning.

It tells you what it's about and you were like, you're the one that's like, it's confusing. You just need to have your, you already have a website. Why don't you just call it the Caleb Gordon show?

You were calling it the Caleb Gordon show on, you know, on a network that was only your show with a Northfield name.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was, it was a whole complex. Now I was, I was making it bigger than or something in my mind, I thought it was bigger than what it was. And it just like, that's, that was dumb. And you were like, you should just call it the Caleb Gordon podcast.

I was like, you ever seen social network with the story of Facebook, where the guy sits down with Mark Zuckerberg and he looks at him and goes, cause he called it the Facebook and he's like, drop the, the, just make it Facebook.

And you were like, you should just call it the Caleb Gordon podcast. And I was like, okay, done.

Yeah.

Done.

Ministry as Sacred Conversation and Gospel Opportunities

So you're, you're our, let's talk about some of the ministry that you do. Cause I think it'd be, it'd be good for people to see you are one of the more creative people that I know when it comes to always looking for new ways to do ministry.

And what I do hope that folks would get out of this is like, Oh, Hey, that's an idea I can do. That's a, you know, you know, I've watched you as even you go and get coffee, they know who you are, you're going, you, you like to, it seems go to regular places where you get to know people.

You can keep sharing with them, dropping bits of gospel, dropping bits of scripture and just furthering conversations. It seems each time, because like some of the places we went, the people who knew who you were, you were just, it was like, you were just continuing conversations, but then you're constantly using your backyard for fellowships.

So let's talk about some of the ministry you do. What is your, what's your, your, your view of how to do ministry? What is it that kind of, so not just ideas of ministry you do, but what motivates you.

To do it?

So I literally had a meeting, I met with multiple pastors and business leaders at a local cigar lounge Tuesday night, and that was one of the questions I got asked. And I just said, there's no such thing as a secular sacred divide.

I looked at the guys at this deal and I said, for me, there's no such thing as a secular sacred divide. Everything is sacred. Everything I do, whether it's, and I heard this growing up from my dad, from different people that he was connected with, is that like, everything's holy, everything's worship, brushing your teeth is worship, like everything is worship.

So everything you do has an opportunity to advance the kingdom of Christ. And so I've always had the mindset of, I want to share Christ with people that I interact with on whatever level that happens to be.

And so I, I, um, I go to like, when I go to Walmart, and this is one of the things I always tell people, Christians should never say, I'm bored because that's dumb. People that are bored in the Christian faith, aren't doing anything because there's so much work to be done.

There's so many opportunities to share the gospel of Christ with people. We just interact, go to Walmart, they have a name badge, they have their name badge, they're checking you out. Instead of just staring at your phone, ask questions, Hey, Andrew, how can I pray for.

You?

And they'll immediately, people go, what? So this, I'll tell you a wild story. So there's the Walmart greeter, his name's Virgil. Virgil, I see him every Sunday morning, I go in to go pick up donuts for our Sunday school class.

So I've got to get a stack of donuts for our Sunday school class. And I take them to church every Sunday. And every Sunday, Virgil be like, Oh, you got your donuts, man. Where are you going with those donuts?

I see you every Sunday with all those donuts. What are you doing with those donuts? I was like, Oh, I take them to my church, man. I got these, I got a class of older ladies in there, some older guys, I got a Sunday school class of people, they'll full blown revolt if I don't have some sugar in there.

So I got to have, I got to have something. So he's doing that, he's chuckling. And so the next Sunday, he's like, Oh, you got your donuts for all your people in your.

Sunday school class?

I sure do. And then we talk a little bit more. This goes on for months. Every Sunday, I tell him a little bit more, tell me where you pastor, what, tell me what kind of church is it?

What are you?

Because he's asking these questions. I'll take a couple minutes, two, three minutes just to just give him information. Fast forward six months. And it's a Tuesday and I'm in Walmart grabbing something and I walk through Virgil's at the greeter thing.

He goes, Caleb, come here, come here, come here.

I got to tell you something.

What do you got Virgil? He goes, I just want to let you know, I won't be here on Sunday. You won't see me. I said, Oh, are you going on a trip? He goes, Nope. I'm going to church. I've been thinking about the things you and I've been talking about, and I found a church that I think will work.

I'm going to go check it out and see what it's all about. You and I, you've given me a lot of things to think about in this, our conversations that we've had.

Yeah.

And I'm going to go to church on Sunday. I was like, that's great, man.

I'm so excited.

That's awesome. Tell me about it. I'll see you next time. Next time I come in here, I want to hear about it. I want to know about it. Next time I saw him, I was like, Hey, how was church? Tell me how it went.

He goes, Oh, that was great.

This is what happened.

This is what happened.

And he's, he's rearranged his entire work schedule. He got off work, so he's not working on Sundays anymore. He stopped where he told his boss at Walmart, I'm done working on Sundays. I'm going to church.

He rearranged his entire schedule to go and, and, and rather than have a day off outside of Sunday, he took Sunday off so he can go to church. And so like, that's just, those are the things that like, I just, I look for avenues to just talk to people.

Like my waiter and waitress, my waiter or waitress that I'm at a restaurant and you, you and I did this when you were here, you just ask them questions, you know,. Hey, do you know how to get to heaven?