Engaging Lawrence Krauss and Joe Rogan

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Non -rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it

00:07

You're gonna bark all day Delusional is okay in your world view.

00:16

I'm an animal you don't chastise chickens for being delusional You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly.

00:23

Okay, it doesn't really hurt Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men

00:36

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage

00:44

Go into all the world and make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives, right?

00:50

Don't go in the world make homies Disciples, I got a bit of a jiggle Nick That's a joke pastor

01:00

The real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not The fool says in his heart

01:24

There is no God they are corrupt. They do abominable deeds.

01:29

There is none who does good What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of apology or radio

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I am Jeff Durbin. They call me the ninja that sack attack right there What's up? He is the director of communications for end abortion now and where can people go to for end abortion now to get connected?

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Cultish at least for it last I checked was like number six or number nine in the odd iTunes Podcast rankings we even surpassed

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Don't miss it Don't miss it. Very good stuff. Everyone's really enjoyed that and they said it was very eye -opening for them

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So Lindsay Davis just defected from Bethel and God's done a lot of work in her life And so I encourage you to listen to those episodes here we go.

04:59

We're back and today we are engaging with Something we actually we're very excited three of us are excited about this because this is something near and dear to all of our hearts

05:10

Atheism is stupid Hashtag it is it is atheism is stupid and I mean that in a class feel

05:17

There you go, yeah, and I mean that in the most classical sense of the term in the biblical side in the biblical sense

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It's foolish. It is stupid. It is it is an exercise in futility and ignorance That's not saying that I'm attacking all atheists as idiots and stupid

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I'm saying atheism as a worldview is foolish. It is ignorant. It is truly classically foolish

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It is blinded to the obvious decay of its own claims and the obvious Foolishness of its own claims and so we love to engage with atheism.

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We do have a public debate Three on three debate we did in California at the Bonson conference a couple years ago

05:58

Saiten Bruggen Kate and I were a part of that as well. And and so you can go check that out. It's online right now I think it's close to a million views online

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We've done tons of shows on atheism we have interacted some with some of Lawrence Krauss's claims

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But I just saw a clip come across with Joe Rogan who I really really love.

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I love Joe Rogan I listened to his podcast. I do I think he's an egg. He's excellent at what he does.

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He's a great interviewer I I have a I have a passion for Joe Rogan. I love the man

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And I would love the opportunity to be able to sit down with Joe Rogan to engage on some of these issues

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I think he would handle it really really well. I think we would enjoy ourselves together I think we'd have a good time together talking about these things and I have noticed over time

06:42

As Joe Rogan has articulated some of his experience with DMT the drug DMT It seems like Joe Rogan even has opened up himself to the idea that there's more

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Than than meets the eye world. It's not just the material world and and I'd sad to say that you know

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The drug experience has led him to that But I would love to be able to have an opportunity to talk with Joe Rogan about God about the spiritual about Transcendence and those sorts of things and I think we'd have a wonderful time.

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It would be a respectful dialogue I think we would both enjoy ourselves So it just with that said it people have been trying this for some time trying to get a time for Joe Rogan and I Can to get connected to talk?

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Tweet him send him out stuff ask him to get me on the show with him So we he and I can have a great conversation together

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I think it would benefit a lot of people and I think we'd really enjoy ourselves I really love Joe Rogan.

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I do, you know one thing I miss about Joe Rogan is Fear Factor Yes, that was one of my favorite shows ever.

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Yeah, they brought it back for a little bit and then it got dropped Yeah. Yeah, I thought that was the coolest show.

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Yeah Yeah, when

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I was I mean we're the same age ish basically and Yeah, I just at that point in my life you don't do

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Scale. No. No, I honestly some bugs are okay, but the cockroaches are really what yeah

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Did you that's a no? No. Yes inert salad right there anything anything that had to do with poop was we got me

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That's what got me. It was the eating. Yeah. Yeah, that was so speaking of Joe Rogan and Lawrence Krauss Lawrence Krauss was a professor at ASU and He a physicist and he's

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I think he was part of starting the origins project project at ASU So he's done a lot of stuff with Lawrence Krauss.

08:32

Sorry with Richard Dawkins. So he's a well -known atheist and He did a we have we wanted him to come on this show so many times.

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Yes Yeah, we actually I did communicate with Lawrence Krauss at one point. He wouldn't know who I am

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So I'm not saying like we're buddies or anything But I did get to communicate with him at one point a long time ago and asked him to be on the show and it

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Was looking like it would happen but ended up not actually happening, which was unfortunate We would love to have him on the show

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He'd be treated with respect and graciousness and all those things but I think it's an important conversation to have so we thought we could play through this clip of Joe Rogan and Lawrence Krauss talking about Religion and we'll just interact with it.

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It's just it's a great. It's a great opportunity for us to actually communicate The Christian worldview and truth as we're sort of listening in on two guys talk about how

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Religion is is bankrupt or you know wrong or immoral or stupid Themselves and so let's let's do that.

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Let's get into it right away. It's just a 12 -minute clip We'll try to get through all of it that we can I do want to also say scheduling for today

09:39

Dr. White is a member of Apologia Church And I had no I I didn't plan on actually doing the live broadcast of Apologia Radio at the same time as the dividing line

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It's not a competition. It's not a competition and I'm gonna say to dr. White brother. I'm sorry But it's the only time we could do it.

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We'll try not to never will never ever let this happen again Okay, so that's just a word to dr.

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White. All right, so here we go Joe Rogan and Lawrence Krauss on religion You can check this out yourselves the

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Joe Rogan University fan channel and that is on YouTube Don't check it out right now. Just hang with us now because we're gonna start moving through it you guys stop me whenever you want

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Social beings may be found that you know if they imposed some meaning on the universe on a universe, which otherwise is hostile and Dangerous that maybe it might help bind them in tribes that maybe would help might make them

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Happier about being alive early on because they might be so scared of a universe that wants to kill them all the time That it would embolden them.

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So there's obviously an evolutionary compass. Yes. I know it's off Awful early into the clip, but you feel free.

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There's a foundational worldview assumption already smuggled in there Yes, he's adopting as he's telling the narrative of history and this is something that Atheists do quite a bit.

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The universe is hostile. Mm -hmm. It's chaotic. Mm -hmm, and therefore man Imposes meaning and morality from his own knowledge and experience on it in order to harness it and control it

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That's foundationally an atheistic presupposition because if the universe isn't the handiwork of a good creator

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God who has Inherently endowed the creation with purpose With that meaning with that morality and were to recognize that with his revelation as the source of those things

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Right his gracious condescension through his word if that's not the case Then you have a chaotic universe in which you have to impose meaning upon and your body has to be a neutral entity that you impose meaning upon which means you can do whatever you want with it and you can do whatever you want with The created world because it's yours.

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There's no Everything becomes contractual right which is where social contract comes from and those things it's not

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God creates and therefore this universe bears the mark of the

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Creator and Therefore he gets to define the terms of how this thing works, right? He tells us he reveals how the world works and the laws and the structures that Krauss relies on in order to do physics in the first place

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God reveals all of that and so we have to live in accordance with that in order to operate in the field that he is

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A part of right and at the very beginning of the show if you listen to the first two and a half minutes He says well, I wish the universe wasn't this way, but it is and so we just have to do it

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We have to we have to work with it this way, right? Well, there's a reason that I believe you

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Speaking out of both sides both sides of his mouth He wants it to be that way because then he can do physics right, but he doesn't because it's an orderly structure

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That's dependable and there's uniformity that he has to depend on in order to do physics

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And he might say all day long that it's not faith in order to assume that the future will be like the past But it is a faith commitment.

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Mm -hmm every time that he does physics. That's right. And so that's just something I would say jumping off is

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Automatically, there's atheistic assumptions smuggled into his explanation of the origins of the universe

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Yeah, and you have to recognize it Yeah, absolutely And this is really important for those of you guys that are new to this kind of engagement with atheism this is critical to get of course the smuggling in of the atheistic presuppositions, but also the theft of Christian presuppositions smuggled in as well

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Presuppositions that don't belong to Lawrence Krauss You have to consider for a moment now, not just what's on the surface

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What's just being claimed but you have to get underneath that and ask the question Well, what does this man actually believe about himself and us others in the universe itself?

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He believes that all of us are cosmic accidents that there's no justice above any of us There's no ultimate meaning and purpose and value to really anything in the universe much less human beings

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Which are just one more aspect of this accidental universe There's no difference between snails horses rocks dogs and humans in his

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Position so we are no different than space dust in his position now He might want to value human beings, but that's just something again.

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Like you said, he's imposing upon others It's a faith commitment that he has in terms of human beings are valuable and you know

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We did things wrong in the past and this is the right way to do things Who says right and wrong when you believe that you're just the a random result of mutations from bacteria

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To fish to some kind of other land creatures moving your way to African apes and here you are so here's all these smuggled in Christian assumptions and presuppositions like human beings have value dignity and worth and Truth matters and we should pay attention to facts and evidence and those sorts of things.

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We're like, oh wait, wait, wait Just wait a tick That's not atheism At least it's not consistent with atheism.

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It is consistent with a Christian view of the universe which you've adopted You've co -opted that position and you're smuggling those presuppositions in which do not belong to the atheist

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You might want to value human beings Dr. Krauss, you might say that I'd like to value human beings because I'm a human being myself

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And what I want to say is well There's a lot of other creatures in this world that don't value you like you value you who's to say that you're more valuable than the snail or the horse or the tarantula or the rock or the dog or the

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Sea gunk, right? I mean you got lots of stuff living on the surface of the sea

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You know, you have all kinds of things that are alive and you know, what's more valuable you or them?

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There's a lot of people today that think though to human beings We should just start killing off our offspring because we've got way too many dang humans in this world six billion humans

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It's more like 1 billion we need so if you're gonna have kids you got to kill those kids because we've got far too many human beings in the world today and we've got other things in this world that need our affection and our

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Protection and you know for some people in their minds and this seems so crazy But it's the truth before God and you know it you've heard it

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I think I would think you have at this point. There are people that think that trees are more valuable than humans

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There are people that think that and what's your debate with them as an atheist That's a random result of evolutionary processes just like this bag of stuff

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So who's to say that it that I'm more valuable than it just because I am a human being doesn't mean that I get to Make that decision.

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I'm not I'm not I'm not the cosmic emperor of the universe. I'm not the ultimate standard

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I'm one bag of biological stuff and a universe full of a lot of a lot of other biological stuff

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Who's to say that I get to make that determination human privilege human privilege? That's right Happens to be white human privilege, right?

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Yeah, that's right well, there's an outworking and a logical end to the that that explanation of the origins of the universe of being chaotic and that is we need to exercise the utmost amount of control possible over it and so that's where you have an enlarged secular state

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Full of all these competing worldviews in which a Few people just impose the morality on them to keep everybody in check and try to keep everybody happy But in the end, it just leads to maximum control because there is no

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And there is no cosmic judgment. There is no cosmic justice There is no ultimate ought and so it's just all about Control now raw control and whoever can get in power to seize the most of it and that's all that that worldview leads to is just Destruction ultimately it ends up destroying itself and the power

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Those who have the power end up destroying the powerless. That's right. That's right. Okay, here we go more guys Look, that's that's only 22 seconds in we might have to say something.

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No, no, no No, no, don't feel free to go ahead and stop but it's funny because there's just my point saying that there's so much to actually

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Engage with here. There's so much to unpack and to expose when I said atheism is stupid

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I'm not just trying to just get a rise out of people. I mean Atheism is stupid in the classical sense.

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It refuses correction. It refuses self -examination It's stupid.

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It's foolishness as a View it it just truly is so here.

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Let's get some more of it So to what is religion because there wasn't religions wouldn't be everywhere, right?

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I mean pretty well all human cultures have religions each one is inconsistent with every other one, right? But which was the reason we know that they're probably all wrong.

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But well We'll answer that too and now from a Christian again the a smuggled an assumption like right and wrong matters

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Yeah, it doesn't matter according to your perspective. Mr. Krause You can desire it to matter all you want, but you have just sounds coming out of this evolutionary this random result of evolution

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Coming from a three -pound brain in your head. That's firing chemical biochemical responses And that is truly what it is and there are atheists that are honest enough to admit that today to say, you know

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There's just stuff happening in my brain. I have no real control over his biochemical responses There's no necessarily right or wrong.

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So here's that smuggled an assumption, but the Christian world who has an answer for that why do image bearers of God throughout history have a

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Conception of God and even at times a distorted conception of God or gods and paganism and all the rest

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We would say because they're all made in the image of the same God and they're all gonna worship something They're all gonna worship because they are created to worship the true and living

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God But because the world has fallen and broken we would confess to that Absolutely, because it's not quite the way that it was supposed to be human beings refer

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Refuse to worship the one and only true and living God and they exchange him

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For something that looks like him, but truly yes Absolutely throughout human history human beings image bearers of God have all been involved and engaged in worship now we can make sense of that according to a

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Christian worldview and human beings suppressing the truth of God and Righteousness like you're doing dr. Krauss But you really can't according to your worldview because what one

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African ape does in this Version of human history you have is irrelevant.

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It's morally irrelevant. It's intellectually irrelevant It's logically irrelevant.

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There's no right or wrong or rhyme or reason It's just what happens to be and you can't chastise other

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African apes because they decide to worship a stone There's no wrong in that according to your perspective because there's no ultimate standard of what is right in the world

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Joy, you got something to say? No, okay It works the fact that it's universal must mean there's some evolutionary utility to the believing

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But then certain things eventually even though they worked and were useful early on as our human condition changes

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They may not be so useful. Well, that seems to be the place where we're at now as a civilization exactly

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I would argue that religion is turning out to be counterproductive now It may have been useful early on in human history

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But now what it's doing is it's getting in the way not only of progress But of a few in cooperation and this is amazing

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Go you go ahead. I was just gonna say so what's being articulated here is enlightenment rationalism also, which in the 17th century man was seeking to make all of the areas of life which

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Previously as Christians were articulating for so long. We're all under God's authority

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Christ's authority You couldn't do these things apart from Christ. You couldn't do meaningful science

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Apart from having God as the foundation of it because it doesn't make sense without him This is where and as a part of the

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Enlightenment man was seeking to alienate God from all of these different areas of life and so when you hear

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Lawrence Krauss talking about how Religion is now counterproductive. Why well how so well now we have

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Science and we have technology and we've made all these advancements in medicine and all these things now these become what saves us

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We don't look to Stone Age deities anymore to save us now. Our Savior is technology now our

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Savior is the scientific method right now our Savior has become our advancements in medicine and all these things that we know now that we didn't then that religion put shackles on us before and when we transcended that and Segregated God from all these fields that allowed us to use our reason in order to realize that Because God was the enemy of reason he was the enemy of rational man and so humanistic neutral principles where God is

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Divorced essentially from these fields like science where again, it makes no sense to do physics

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It makes no sense to rely on motion or energy or any of those principles of the universe if they're not

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Orderly part of a system repeatable testable able to be measured able to be you know repeated all those things

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It doesn't make sense without God but when he says We don't need religion anymore. It's counterproductive

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This is the worldview at the bottom of this. It's it's it's Enlightenment thinking.

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It's it's rational listic thinking and It's it's it's evil there there really is only two world views and the other one that isn't the biblical worldview at the bottom is what the

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Apostle Paul describes as the Gentiles who are darkened in their understanding alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts when we say atheism is

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Stupid it's foolish in the sense of why? Men are ignorant apart from God is because they have hard hearts that hate

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God their ignorance comes from their hardness of heart Right. Well, and I think that um his characterization of religion here is kind of an oversimplification

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He sees it as sort of like a past Pre -enlightenment era superstition people that people used to Like explain why the

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Sun would rise and go down and basically that everything was gonna be okay because God like we needed to know everything was gonna be okay because we didn't know about things like astronomy and Theoretical physics and things like that But it's that's really not first of all

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That you know that lumping all religion together is a simplification in and of itself, but also that's not in terms of the religion increasing fitness, even if you just look at Christianity and People who worship the true

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God and who believe in the Bible it certainly did nothing to create it's like to increase our fitness and our ability to live because I can't even

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I can't even tell you how many many many people died For this superstitious belief.

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It didn't help them. It wasn't just like oh, well, I just need to know everything's gonna be okay

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Because I'm just stupid and I'm from before the 1900s and I don't know what

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I'm doing and maybe one day We'll have electricity like it's just it's just not even it's not even an intelligent way to look at The way things are and and certainly

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I'd like to point out that historically speaking this issue as Something that has always happened.

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There have always been people who suppress the truth and unrighteousness There was not a time just because people used to be quaint and not know what space was

25:36

Like it doesn't mean that people weren't haters of God or slaves for him like right

25:42

Yeah, so it's just I don't know. It's they're having an interview. It's fine if he doesn't get all the details, but this is

25:49

I've heard a lot I've heard I've been to a lot of origins projects events and It's everyone together.

25:56

Do we go to the documents together? Did you go that with us? Yeah. Yeah yeah, there's a few I get that I've been to a gamut and um

26:03

It's all you'd think that going into like a symposium of a bunch of atheists. It would be this like scientific and Blackboards and everything, but it's all just the same like reductive.

26:14

Yeah, like Making fun of Christians during each other on like that, right? There wasn't really anything and I'm not even just I went legitimately to say yeah to be like, okay

26:24

I want to hear your yeah, you're hard -hitting scientific arguments and they just never heard any right and that's

26:30

Multiple events put on by the origins project. I think they did at the time

26:36

They're doing like to a year or so. Mm -hmm, and there were years where I went to One every year where I went to one of their things.

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I was like, here's your moment. Yep, and it never happened Boil it all down to this

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I mean what he's articulating is man needed religion needed gods in order to be saved now

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What he's saying is we can save ourselves With all of these things. We don't need to rely on these idols anymore because our gods are superior

27:05

Yeah, and let me just say also when Krauss makes this comment of religion being outdated

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And it's counterproductive now guys come with me on this one now if you guys were getting mellow headed there for a moment

27:19

I want you to just try to check back in with me for a second because this is important when Krauss makes these kind of ignorant anti -historical claims

27:28

They need to be confronted. They just need to be confronted there You see these audacious bold claims made by these popular atheists many many times and if you just don't know history, then you just aren't thinking and considering and like how irrational that is the institutions and the history that gave

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Krauss his degree and his perspective were developed by Christianity by the

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Christian worldview and that is a fact of history. It cannot be ignored So when he says like it's counterproductive today

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It's like well You mean the worldview that gave you the the nation that you're in it gave you the ideas that you hold to that are just Very good ideas.

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You mean the worldview that developed the world in the way that it is now because of the Christian worldview

28:15

It's watch us. It's here's the thing. It's not an accident of the Christian worldview It's not just happenstance that the

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Christian worldview developed Oxford Cambridge Yale Harvard all the rest

28:28

It's not an accident like it just happens to be the case that Those institutions were created by Christians on the basis of the

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Christian worldview as Christian institutions to spread the gospel It's not an accident that science was given rise modern science was given rise out of that.

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It's because explicitly of the Christian worldview when you'd look at Isaac Newton and all of the things that he was doing

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When he was appealing to the Christian worldview in terms of all the work that he was doing and pointing to Bible verses

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That's what get that's what grounded his discovery And when you look at all the Christians in history the famous Christian Scientists not the cult but the real

29:06

Christian scientists in history that gave us what we have today in terms of technology and modern medicine And all the rest it's not an accident of the

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Christian worldview that we got all of that It was directly derived from it even down to really interesting stories

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I actually this is one of those like oh, that's funny. Like that's that's really cool

29:25

Like you wouldn't think like you think it'd be deeper than that, but it is the guy who created anesthesia

29:31

Like that's an amazing story. Like hey, guess what guys we get to get knocked out now for like very serious surgeries

29:39

Why Oh? Just a little thing called the book of Genesis Because see what happened was is this guy was realizing like it's horrible to watch these people go through this torture

29:48

Like we're just giving him whiskey and stuff. They're alive and well and awake during these operations that are

29:54

Extraordinarily painful it's horrible to watch other human beings suffer in this way But hey if whiskey is what we got or these other medicines

30:01

Oh my god, then it's what we got like what else are we gonna do? And so this guy is reading his Bible doing his devotional he's that he's in medicine and he reads the book of Genesis and he's like This is interesting when

30:13

God is doing this massive surgery on Adam Adam's not awake

30:18

While God's removing the rib God puts a deep sleep over Adam to perform this surgery and to remove his rib

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Now if God knocks the guy out to remove his rib and we're just cutting him open while they're like a wide awake

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He's like then we should probably try to do what God does now I find that watch I find that so I find that so amusing because who comes to that conclusion based off a text in the

30:39

Bible So it's like even little things like hey Lawrence Krauss not only have you benefited from the Bible the Christian worldview for everything that you're doing now in terms of physics because of the

30:48

Christians who Gave it to you and the Christian institutions that gave it to you But hey, how about this if you ever have to have something removed you need to also praise

30:56

God for that Dr Krauss because it's because of a Christian As a person in medicine who saw in this biblical account of what

31:03

God did when he did a surgery on somebody that he said We need anesthesia So praise

31:08

God for anesthesia and specifically praise God for the book of Genesis and that narrative for anesthesia

31:14

It's just I can keep going we can go all day long on this stuff But that's the kind of thing that we experience today is we just don't even thank

31:22

God for these blessings We don't even think like oh, it's no big deal Counterproductive, how about the basis of everything that you have today is because of Christianity?

31:33

Counterproductive it's what gave it to you and So evolution is now

31:40

Is now counterproductive, but the great thing is we have we have a consciousness we have an intellect so we can actually overcome that evolutionary predilection by realizing we have that predilection and as as Feynman said the

31:54

Easiest person to fool is yourself. So if you're oh Is that interesting?

32:00

Oh boy. Is that ever true? Are you talking about sinful self -deception? Oh boy, is it ever true?

32:08

Dr. Krause? This is the point where we're all say a yay and amen to that. Absolutely Okay, but let's just talk real fast

32:14

This is this is critical and this might feel like it's kind of deep for some people But please don't do that to yourself because this is a very actual simple concept when you have a person like Lawrence Krause Who's a materialist?

32:26

He believes an atheist who believes that all there is the material realm the observable universe He doesn't believe in something transcendent something that transcends the physical universe in the material realm

32:36

He doesn't believe that it doesn't comport with his worldview So when he starts talking about consciousness, you got to challenge him on that You don't just you don't get to borrow that from us and just use it as a sword against us.

32:48

I'm sorry I'm gonna stop you there and I'm gonna take that so you stop wielding it against the Christian worldview consciousness or intellect intellect

32:55

Yeah in atheism. Are you talking about that three -pound? Piece of matter that is is firing chemical responses

33:05

That's that's causing you to spew the thoughts and and and say the words that you are

33:10

Like that kind of consciousness like where can I weigh this consciousness? Is it transcendent? Is it immaterial or material the thoughts and the laws of logic you're appealing to these concepts that you're appealing to Are those material in nature or those immaterial because according to your worldview if it's not material if I can't observe it

33:31

Then it's not real. It's not true. So are these concepts material in nature?

33:37

Are they immaterial in nature and Can something be immaterial in nature and be true and real?

33:44

How do you examine something like that when someone says well you write it down on a piece of paper. That's what you do Well, that's the physical representation of the concept.

33:51

But the concept is Outside of that it's immaterial. It's not something that's in front of me. Actually, it's something that's immaterial the thoughts the reasoning processes the laws of logic you're appealing to are

34:03

Not made of matter. You cannot weigh a law of logic. You cannot put it under a microscope

34:08

You can't ask what color is a law of non -contradiction because all of us recognize that those universal and Unchanging invariant laws of logic that exist in Iceland and in Arizona Those things are immaterial in nature and somehow

34:26

Interestingly, they're universal in nature, right? Like if I say right now

34:33

It is the case that my keys are in my pocket and it's not the case that the keys are in my pocket Right you go.

34:39

That's a logical contradiction. Hey, guess what? That logical contradiction is Illogical in Iceland, too

34:44

How come is that a universal law? Is that something that exists outside of nature that all of us must appeal to you?

34:52

for example None of us were sitting in the room with you when you did this podcast with Joe Rogan and you're trying to appeal to universal laws of logic and standards of thinking in this

35:01

Podcast in this room in the studio. I assume in California. Thanks with Joe Rogan Yeah, so did the laws of logic you're appealing to dr.

35:09

Krause Do those appeal do those actually work as well in Phoenix, Arizona, or is it just in the studio with Joe Rogan?

35:16

And if you say no, they're they're universal. Okay, they're universal. So they exist everywhere at all times. Well, there are concepts that we've

35:23

Developed as creatures. Oh So what you're suggesting is that African a like religion?

35:29

Yeah, exactly pre -enlightened Guys we could keep going with this

35:35

So what you're saying is African apes developed a system of thinking in terms of rationalism and logical thought

35:40

African apes had a Consensus as a group that determined we say this is the standard of laws of logic

35:48

Fantastic because if that's the basis of laws of logic that African apes who were descendants of bacteria Said this is the standard then a hundred years from now

35:57

Some group somewhere can develop their new laws of logic where they say it's perfectly acceptable for you to contradict

36:04

Yourself and you ought to do it and you have no basis to argue with them if there's more of them than you or if there's five of them against you because your standards don't hold any weight over their standards because it's just the random mutations of evolutionary processes coming up together with thoughts and decrees that really are insignificant and meaningless ultimately and that this happens at the beginning of the interview when he's talking with Joe Rogan about like Gage Something or other

36:35

I can't remember the term and he goes on to explain the concept in exactly that way Humans define things arbitrarily.

36:42

There you go, right and then he goes on to make a statement like this the universe designed itself to be arbitrary

36:50

Like are you kidding me like okay, so the universe which is an immaterial entity Designed material material.

36:58

Sorry. Yeah. Yeah a material. Yeah designed itself to be arbitrary so The purposeful construction of the self -created universe was so that it would be inherently arbitrary

37:10

It has a mile does that work in your life? Is that how you live? Do you live like this self -created designing universe created you as arbitrary?

37:20

I mean, I realized that he's trying to do that and defining things However, he wants to but when it comes down to you know, serious things in his life like morality

37:29

Getting paid his checks all those things like those things start to matter and things aren't arbitrary anymore.

37:36

That's right. That's right And here we go. Let's keep moving more on this scientists

37:41

What you have to do is ask yourself am I believing that because I want to believe or because there's evidence So if we constantly are are skeptical of ourselves, we can know to overcome that ingrained

37:54

Impulse we have to want to believe that's one of the utilities of science So I may listen to you and like you and I may listen to another radio person and not like them and I may be

38:04

Therefore naturally willing to assume that they're wrong and you're right But I should also say to myself is it really the case or is it just because I like Joe Rogan?

38:13

I don't like you know, you pick your favorite right -wing nut, right? And and and so we should be asking ourselves.

38:19

Okay, maybe I should go beyond my Predilections beyond my biases to ask why

38:26

I am sympathetic to what I'm hearing There's some truth in that in terms of challenging yourself and examining

38:33

So whether something's actually true or not or says that you want to believe it So we'd say yes, that's important to do

38:39

We all need to examine ourselves and the beliefs that we have and say is it actually true? But once again, there's the smuggled assumption that truth matters and we ought to try to pursue

38:48

Ultimate truth, but also this this terminology that keeps coming up. I hope you guys are catching it have you heard how many times he said should be should be ought we should be ought to should be like there's some kind of Standard that all of us must sort of get to like we should do this says who

39:03

Lawrence Krauss? We should all be as smart as Lawrence Krauss and not stupid with riddled with superstitions

39:09

Yeah, that's that really is what he's saying, right? Like he's a smart. He's a smart dude, but like He he legitimately just thinks he's smarter than you.

39:19

Mm -hmm. That's ultimately what it comes down to He doesn't think he's the only one that's that smart. But right, that's true.

39:25

He wants you to get on his level That's right And should be should be should be is getting us to a standard that exists outside of Krauss What we all ought to be doing should be doing.

39:34

Where's that standard come from? Where's that ultimate standard come from? Is it because Lawrence Krauss says so who says

39:40

I have to listen to Lawrence Krauss? He's another at random result of evolutionary processes, why do

39:46

I have to listen to him? Is there some standard outside of him? We're all supposed to be standing on that's the question Lawrence Krauss Lawrence Krauss That's right.

39:53

And if we did that in everyday life, I think we'd cut through the crap more carefully So science says look we are hardwired to want to have these weird beliefs and it's fine like atheism

40:04

Maybe some of them are right, but the only way to know is to test them. Ah Test them test them test them science testing science and testing

40:13

Here's another smuggled in Christian assumption that he only has in the way that he does because of all that Christianity and the biblical worldview gave to the world

40:22

Yes, all of these great academic institutions while today they've fallen off. They were developed not as an accident of the

40:29

Christian worldview Explicitly to promote the Christian worldview Harvard Yale Oxford Cambridge I love the fact that some of these scientists these atheists who are going to teach at say

40:39

Cambridge or Yale or Oxford I love that they have to walk under Under a precipice that says like greater the works of the

40:47

Lord or something like that I love that while they're teaching in this these academic institutions They have to walk under Bible verses and things like that because those are the remnants of what gave it to you

40:57

But let's just examine this just quickly. I'll say it quickly as possible when he says examine observe test

41:04

Science those sorts of things the scientific method has a basis to it in terms of observation and testing

41:10

And what is that that the universe can be studied that it can be depended upon that orderly?

41:16

That's orderly that there's something called the principle of induction now Don't let it throw you guys just think about it

41:21

The principle of induction is simply this that the future will be like the past The that past experiences our future experiences are going to be congruent with past experiences

41:31

So there is a testability to this universe because we have the principle of induction

41:36

But I'm not gonna be the first person to say to a guy like Lawrence Krauss That you've got to have a justification for that.

41:42

You can't just throw it out there and say I get to have this I mean you've got guys like David Hume that's offered serious reputation on the principle of induction

41:51

You've got famous atheists like Bertrand Russell and his book problems in Philosophy that he's written on the principle of induction and they will argue and they're not even coming for Christian worldview

42:00

They'll argue like hey this principle of induction in an orderly universe and uniformity the very basis of literally

42:06

Every single thing that you will do in your life today down to brushing your stinking teeth and putting your feet on the floor when you get out of bed to launching and astronauts into space

42:20

All of it is based on the principle of induction and these men would tell you Bertrand Russell will tell you and guess what?

42:25

You don't get to do you don't get to just assume it He's like I want a basis for saying the future will be like the past and he goes and if you say to me

42:36

Well in the past it was always that way He will say I'm taking that away from you because that's not what

42:42

I asked you I want to know why the next five seconds the next 20 minutes the next 20 years

42:47

I can depend upon the principle of induction and that there is repeatability Uniformity in nature and that the future be like the past and you can't go on appealing to past experience

42:57

Because we don't know that the future will be like the past because this is a chaotic Disorderly universe with no

43:04

God above it and there's no basis to say that the future will be like the past now watch

43:10

How come people believe the future be like the past? Well, of course because they live in that uniform universe

43:16

But what justification do they have for the future being like the past? specifically in these scientific and academic institutions

43:23

Well, lo and behold it was the Christian worldview in these Christian academic institutions that created all of this major advancement in modern science and why because we believe in the

43:36

God of Scripture who governs the universe and actually sustains it all and he upholds it and Carries it along to its intended destination.

43:45

So there is testability. There is induction. There is uniformity in nature There is the ability to say at 3 p .m

43:53

I'm gonna get on an airplane to go to LA and that airplane is gonna follow and Be a part of the uniform laws of this universe like I mean just consider it and I've used this before but I think it's compelling when a pilot gets into an airplane and Gets behind and gets into the cockpit right and that door closes and it's like you're ready to take off that pilots not going

44:17

We don't know We don't know what the laws of physics are today like it could be a whole new deal today

44:25

Like would anybody get in the airplane with that pilot? No, like that pilot is getting in the airplane and he's studied

44:32

This is how wind works and this is how this plane gets up into the sky

44:37

And this is how thrust is gonna push me and this is how I have to turn this way He knows based upon past experience that the future be like the past but he has to have a justification for it

44:48

Ultimately, and what we're saying is is you don't get science and uniformity and airplanes flying to Tokyo Without ultimately the

44:56

Christian God and the Christian worldview. Now, that's not to say that we don't have atheist pilots We do we have atheist pilots who live by faith

45:06

They live by faith and that's critical because all of this borrowing from the Christian worldview has got to be confronted if we're not willing to test our beliefs and Subject them to the the test of nature then then we're gonna be diluted and that's the problem with the

45:24

With a lot of what's happening in our government people think you know what? I really want to believe in this

45:30

Absurd story and therefore I refuse to accept evolution If you're the vice if you're Mike Pence the vice president country you say

45:36

I don't believe evolution because I don't it doesn't agree with my ridiculous fundamentalist ideas and ridiculous

45:43

Fundamentalist tell where he stands. I think we know where he stands right and Mike Pence get on my level

45:51

That's all he wants is for everyone to be as smart as him Yeah, and he he says he says something interesting too

45:56

We have to test all things by nature as somehow nature is the arbiter The mechanism by which we test everything right?

46:03

Well because the universe created its designed itself, right? And so if so, we should put our trust in the designer right the creator

46:12

So if the scientific method is your arbiter or that which you use to find out what truth is

46:17

And you say that's the only way we can know anything is by exercising the scientific method Well, how did you come to that conclusion?

46:24

It wasn't by using the scientific method. That's right It was by taking on faith that that method is superior to anything else like for example revelation

46:32

Yeah, what justification you have for it? What meaningful coherent justification do you have for the scientific method and don't tell me because it's always worked in the past Because that's not what's being asked of you.

46:44

We're talking about justification for future appeals to uniformity Which is the very basis of all the scientific method and so that's critical said that in Congress, right?

46:54

He said we shouldn't be teaching evolution in schools we should be in teaching intelligence design and and why because he

47:00

It offends his personal faith perhaps like yours Dr.

47:07

Krause it might also be a political ploy It might be I think it's he knows a large percentage of the country finds comfort in a leader that Subscribes the same sort of superstitions that they do.

47:17

Yeah, I that could be he did this before he was in a national office He was a congressman. I suspect he did it.

47:24

It sounds like he believed it, but you're right He might who knows right but but the point is that we we we should realize that the only that That we shouldn't listen to that kind of nonsense, right?

47:35

Because shouldn't Nonsense says who for African apes should do something ultimate standards nonsense.

47:44

There's nothing nonsensical in an atheistic universe I mean there isn't and as soon as you start appealing to know there there are things that are nonsense

47:52

You're appealing to an ultimate standard and something that's outside of yourself and outside of the material and that's just it too

47:57

There's too much borrowing happening here And this is this is the struggle with Christianity developing culture and society is you get people ultimately?

48:07

Maybe hundreds of years later when there's a demise of that society that are very ungrateful We may not want because there are a lot of people in this country who do think that evolution

48:18

Directly confronts their belief in God or the Big Bang Directly confronts their belief in God and therefore they don't want their children to learn about that But what an awful thing to do to your children to withhold evidence about how the world really works

48:32

Because you know, you don't have to believe in the Big Bang, but it really happened You don't have to believe in evolution, but it happened

48:38

It's like Philip K Dick said the the science fiction writer reality is that which continues to exist whether or not you believe in it?

48:45

Yeah, okay. And so so much stuff. I'm like how that's how do you know what's real? Yeah, how do you know?

48:51

How do you know that you can trust your senses? How do you know that how do you know that your senses aren't lying to you every time you go out and use them

48:59

How can you be sure? How can you have any level of certainty that everything you experience is not just an illusion?

49:05

Mm -hmm You have no way of verifying or cross -referencing yourself When it comes to that unless you have something or someone speaking to you from outside of your own system

49:14

To tell you that is the ultimate that's right. That's right. So I will say this though I don't want intelligent design taught to our young people.

49:23

I want creation as taught by the Christian God. Yes I don't want a neutral view of intelligent design taught to children.

49:30

That's right. Just a side note Well, and I'm not and I'm also and I don't think most of the people I know are opposed to teaching their kids

49:37

What evolution is and what the Big Bang is? and then They would make a distinction on which one

49:46

Actually happened which is also exactly what Lawrence Krauss would do Yeah, I don't think anyone like his him suggesting that People just want to keep their kids from stuff that might challenge their view.

50:01

I don't think anybody said that they just said intelligent design Even though we would have an issue with that should be taught alongside

50:09

Right the evolutionary theory. Yeah equal footing. So I mean which Whatever.

50:15

Yeah, but the point is like Nobody, this just goes along with his like superstitious narrative

50:23

The sky is falling type of thing Like they just don't they don't want their kids to hear it because they're afraid that if they hear about the

50:30

Big Bang They won't believe in God That's but that's not really true. Yeah, I taught my kids about evolution and They laugh at the idea that human beings

50:42

That it's even scientific Or that is scientifically appealing the idea that human beings came from bacteria that the fact that we know this in terms of evidence the fact that we can dig down to the lowest parts of human life and Look at the complexity and the machinery and the design and the

51:00

DNA information in DNA information in DNA again, this is critical to get in terms of the material we go the

51:09

DNA chain We have all of this evidence of information through the DNA chain. It's like information in the DNA chain

51:14

It's like writing pay. It's like writing down information on a piece of paper right or on a menu, right?

51:21

That information on the menu is the physical representation of the information and concept behind It so you can't say well there there's information in DNA chain

51:32

Yeah, it is extraordinarily complex. And if you knock out a few letters, you don't get life That chain is long and complex and it is detailed and it is of course intelligent, but guess what it's just like a menu

51:43

It's just like a menu when you go into a restaurant and you open a menu up and it says chicken steak

51:49

Hamburger you recognize that the information on the page is not the thing

51:54

It's a physical representation of the information that exists outside of the menu

52:01

Right and the same thing for the DNA chain You've got the material realm DNA chain that has information encoded into it.

52:07

But guess what? It's just like the menu It's information being reflected about something outside of itself that information is detailed and real and it's

52:18

Transcendent my children learn that stuff too. And my children think it's hilarious that human beings like Lawrence Krauss would believe that he's a descendant of bacteria and he thinks he can do science or he thinks as An example, what an awful thing to do to your children awful.

52:35

Well now we're getting into morality Professor Krauss there are awful things you can do to children like what?

52:42

Like would you say teach? Why is it more awful to do something to to subject? Something to a child than to an adult.

52:49

That's right. I want to know lots of questions I want to know what's awful to do to a child in an atheistic perspective.

52:56

Now, don't get me wrong here I'm not saying atheists as image bearers of God are just trying to hurt their children I don't believe that for a moment right because they're made in the image of God and they know the value dignity and worth

53:06

That's in their child. They live in God's world They're just suppressing the truth and unrighteousness, but I want to know according to atheism

53:11

What's awful to do to a child you're saying things like even teaching them something wrong is awful. How about beating them?

53:18

How about abusing a child on victimizing a child? Is that awful to do it to a child? Really for African apes to abuse their children is awful.

53:28

It violates a moral standard Here's my question says who Lawrence Krauss and maybe

53:33

Lawrence Krauss is well No, not just me, but society is determined that you ought not hurt your children.

53:39

Oh, I see Okay So now we're gonna take the consensus view that whatever African apes apes huddle together

53:45

Whatever they come up with by decree in terms of what you shouldn't do to your children. Oh, that will be the standard.

53:51

Oh Was it the standard for Hitler? Have you been to the room of shoes at the

53:58

Holocaust Museum? Have you been to that room of shoes at the Holocaust Museum? It'll change your life It'll change your life when you walk through that room of shoes of all the shoes taken off all these children and all these mothers

54:07

And everyone else and they were gassed and destroyed. He didn't hold to he didn't hold to your consensus.

54:13

Dr. Krauss He didn't hold to that consensus about those bags of protoplasm He thought they were worthless and he thought it was perfectly acceptable and moral to kill them

54:23

Or how about? Stalin or Pol Pot, you know, do we need to keep going like at what point do you discover that the consensus view of morality is

54:32

Just bootleg and bankrupt that if you don't have an ultimate standard outside of yourself

54:38

And that's not outside of your community. You have nothing but an arbitrary standard so don't talk to us about awful things to do to children because we have the ultimate standard as to what is awful to do to Children because we know they're made in the image of God and not just the products of random results on bacteria

54:57

You may not want to believe in it But it happened and and for you to withhold that kind of knowledge from your kids because you're worried it's gonna affect their faith is in my opinion child abuse because you're hindering their

55:09

Capabilities as a adult in a society, which is highly technological to function effectively.

55:15

They're doing child abuse Why should we function effectively in society, I mean you could push this as far as you want to yes

55:22

Like all like it's it's a good thing that we ought to a function effectively in society Says who says who and child abuse he acts like it's immoral now from a

55:31

Christian perspective Absolutely immoral. Yes, but child abuse for a man who believes that he just the descendant of a fish

55:39

Like where's that? Is it child child abuse how we eat fish? Well, not even the most extreme version of child abuse we believe it's wrong to lie to your kids

55:48

Oh, yeah, which is what he's suggesting. Yeah, but like how can I'm sure he could make a pretty good like, oh well, it's not good for the humanity of the child to be hurt physically or Emotionally, but what about lying?

56:01

Right who says it's wrong to lie to your kids. He thinks it is he said so Yeah, but who says right right who says

56:08

Lawrence Krauss? I don't have to be listening to you. Yeah I don't be listening to you

56:13

I don't I don't have to and again and you consider that for a moment now think about the chain that he is advocating for bacteria fish moving our way up the chain to African apes at some point in our history according to his evolutionary perspective we were fish

56:33

We climbed out of that But here's the thing. Does Lawrence Krauss eat fish today?

56:41

maybe probably People eat fish today. Well, okay Like is that him is that ultimately immoral because you're saying abusing children is immoral, but do you eat animals?

56:52

Or how about other life on earth? You know any of the plants that grew like do you eat those too? Like isn't that abusive or should you try to preserve those things and if you select well, it's children human children right now

57:03

That's what we select. What's an arbitrary thing? You just selected one random result of evolutionary processes, but you're eating the rest you're destroying them.

57:09

You're abusing them Do you see how fundamentally flawed this is at the beginning? Because he doesn't have

57:15

God because he doesn't have the image of God in a child because he doesn't have God's ultimate Character as the standard of what is absolutely righteous and just he doesn't have anything except the borrowing from the

57:28

Christian worldview and the Emotional appeals that he's dragging into this that he can't justify apart from the

57:34

Christian God because they believe it as well I mean, it's right. I'm not believing they think they're helping their kids

57:39

But most of you I don't know if you're a parent I am I am we've all screwed up our kids, right? We all do things for our kids because we think it's good for them.

57:46

And and sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't I'm not saying these people are doing it because they they want to hurt their children

57:52

They think somehow that not believing in God makes you a bad person, right? But there's no evidence of that.

57:58

In fact, in fact a Steve Weinberg I was a Nobel Prize winning physicist has said and I love it He said so they're good people in the world.

58:05

They're bad people good people do good things bad people do bad things When good people do bad things, it's religion

58:12

Do you think that religion in its earliest days bad things? I think we've talked a lot about that as it is good things and bad things morality

58:20

You have no basis for saying good things and bad things and you have no basis for criticizing any person who professes a belief in God You have no basis of criticizing them for anything that they do.

58:31

All you have is arbitrary standards And if you believed your buddy, dr Krauss if you believed your friend

58:37

Richard Dawkins in his book where he says there is no good There is no evil only blind and pitiless indifference if you believed him in that moment of consistency

58:47

You wouldn't be talking the way that you are right now However in a world filled with image bearers of God Nobody's going to listen to you if you confess openly to the fact that atheism leaves you with no ultimate standards of morality

59:00

It's just what happens to be Nobody would listen because image bearers of God know deep down better than that primitive man with no science trying to figure out the world and trying to have some sort of rules like almost like a scaffolding in order to To move to the next if you see that it exists in so many different cultures

59:23

Yeah It might have been something along the course that way was their effort It was their effort to understand the world around them based on what they knew it was noble You know, they tried to understand the world and so there's nothing wrong with it, but claiming that we today should be wrong with it

59:38

Actually having other idols before God there is something wrong with that, right? And that's actually why because of sin is why we've had false religions

59:47

It's not because we've used it as a way to make sense of our world It's because we will constantly worship something and if we reject

59:57

God Then we will worship something other than him. Mm -hmm. That's a perfect. That's The actual explanation for what all the gods of the nations are idols

01:00:07

But the Lord made the heavens right right and by the way you to understand worship People think about worship in terms of the music and the worshipping like worship by definition

01:00:18

Ultimately is glory and sacrifice. It's what you glory in It's what you give weight to and what you sacrifice to glory and sacrifice.

01:00:26

You see is the greatest treasure. Yeah, it's the greatest treasure It's glory and sacrifice what you give weight to preeminence to and you sacrifice to so Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss and Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens They've all they all worship

01:00:40

They give glory and sacrifice to something and it may not be the God of the Bible But it is to something and I think if you list closely enough to dr.

01:00:48

Krauss you can hear what he's giving glory and sacrifice to guided by the world view of Illiterate peasants in the

01:00:55

Iron Age peasants who who didn't know the earth orbited the Sun Yeah The world literacy

01:01:03

Christians, yeah Because they read the Bible. Yeah, and then they believed in teaching other people and then they wrote it down again

01:01:11

Oh, right. They weren't illiterate. Look at it Look at look at look at the descendant of all the Christianity gave him going these illiterate peasants and it's like yeah

01:01:20

We worked really hard to rid the world of that illiteracy. You're welcome. Lawrence Krauss Like yeah

01:01:26

You can you can thank that does all the people behind us who loved the Lord God of Israel who had his word?

01:01:32

That tried to rid the world of illiteracy and the missionaries to this day that go around the world to bring the gospel of people and bring the

01:01:40

Bible to them in their language and train them to write and to read and to do mathematics

01:01:46

It's Christianity that gave that to you and I love the fact that he's just dissing it. He's Bronze Age But we just let it that we just needed religion to just get us here to where we are now

01:01:57

But now that we have everything Christianity is given to us. We do not want her any longer now

01:02:02

We just want to go about our way and borrow everything from God without actually giving him the glory for it and wrote down Scriptures based on their beliefs at the time they argue that that should guide our life today when we discovered a hundred billion galaxies in the universe and discovered all this stuff is ludicrous, so you're absolutely the birth of science and Religion are the same and and in fact modern science grew out of religion people point that out and they say to me

01:02:25

How dare you talk about religion, you know as as being outdated science grew out of religion and I say to them

01:02:32

Well, that's fine. But children outgrow their parents, right? I Said atheism is stupid.

01:02:42

That's what I'm talking about science grew out of Christianity Because of the beliefs of Christianity because of the worldview that gave rise to that science

01:02:53

Science watch were there atheists in the first century you bet second century you bet third century you bet

01:03:02

Fourth century. Yes all the way back had there have been atheists or history Absolutely. How come science didn't grow out of atheistic communities?

01:03:11

hmm thousands of years of human history and we're not getting science growing out of atheistic communities because the atheistic worldview

01:03:17

How come I wonder did it come out of the Christian worldview? That's right.

01:03:23

Yeah, because it was on the basis of the Christian worldview. It's not like we just need a divorce now

01:03:28

It's like that's the only reason it works It's so great no doubt

01:03:35

Religious ideas and all our early scientists were religious because it was there's the only game in town. Oh No, idolatry was always a game in town

01:03:47

Even my opinion that's that is historical fact. Yeah. Yep. That's right.

01:03:52

It's the only game in town I'm sorry, that's not why science came out of religion or Christianity.

01:03:59

You couldn't be educated except the church Controlled all the universities. You're welcome You're welcome.

01:04:05

The church watches the church controlled all the universe. What about not teaching?

01:04:11

Creation science and in school, right? Are you trying to control right the university education now?

01:04:18

Yeah, and look and look at how just he speaks about it how the church controlled the universities

01:04:23

Oh, you mean how the Christians sacrificed time and sweat and money to build these institutions to educate?

01:04:32

to put down illiteracy to actually move science along on the

01:04:37

Basis of the Christian worldview and the orientation that all of us have about the

01:04:42

King Christ himself who actually rules and actually governs the world like the future

01:04:49

Hope that we have the watch that history is linear and it's going somewhere God has a telos a goal in history that we're getting to and the

01:04:59

Christians who had that perspective that said He's making all things new. He governs the world He's gonna change the world and righteousness and justice and truth and love and beauty and all these those

01:05:09

Christians go And so therefore we have to build and plant and grow and educate and develop and all the rest

01:05:14

It's like and atheism doesn't give you that. It's not that the Christians control Like, you know, there's this nefarious they control the universe.

01:05:23

Well, you know what else kids do their parents sometimes Sometimes they're ungrateful brats. Yeah And that's what this is about You want to outgrow your parents just means you want to leave behind to the

01:05:33

God that gave you what you love, right? You don't want him for that's right. That's right. And so it was like the

01:05:39

National Science Foundation of the 16th century It's not surprising. They were all religious because that's that was the only game in town.

01:05:45

So that that not the only game in town It's what brought it to you in the first place Helped create the birth of modern science, but science outgrew it and that's okay kids outgrow their parents.

01:05:56

Thank goodness well, I think maybe that might help kids outgrow their parents why

01:06:02

I mean the getting Religion forced down your throat is one of the best ways for kids to for some jet as they get older some for some kids

01:06:10

It's like you and me, but I get lots of letters You know We made this movie called the unbelievers and and about which followed

01:06:16

Richard Dawkins and I around the world as we talked about this Uh, all right. We have an hour show there. They're actually well, maybe continue another time

01:06:22

But I don't want to go too far into this that you guys get the point I hope I hope that was really helpful to you guys do us a favor tweet

01:06:29

Joe Rogan. Ask him That's let's get it. Let's get a time where he and I can sit down together.

01:06:34

I think we would really enjoy ourselves I I so would love to communicate with Joe Rogan.

01:06:40

I think he's excellent at doing interviews I think we'd have a good time together. I think we talked about really meaningful and important things and Yeah, so just let's all put the tweet out.

01:06:49

Let's make it happen apology a radio Joe Rogan podcast mix up I'll come in. We'll pay our own way to sit in the studio.

01:06:55

We'll do all that stuff And yeah, so I think it'd be exciting to do that So cool everybody go to apology of studios calm to get more get sign up for all access partner with the ministry

01:07:06

Be on the lookout on apology of studios channels for the upcoming Broadcast of cultish the episode with Lindsay Davis all of the footage from that will be actually a video now

01:07:16

You'll be able to see all that if you haven't heard it yet go to cultish on apology of studios calm Check out the three last episodes we did with Lindsay Davis defecting from Bethel don't forget to go to sheologians calm and listen to summer enjoys podcast and don't forget to connect with Zack here an end abortion now calm to get your church connected with The 350 some odd churches around the world now who are bringing the gospel to the abortion mills saving thousands of children

01:07:43

And now bringing the gospel into conflict with the legislature's demanding immediate justice for these preborn children

01:07:50

So that's all for today guys, please continue to pray for us and we will catch you guys Wait, maybe not next week.

01:07:57

We might do a live broadcast From Salt Lake Salt Lake City. Oh, by the way, we're going to Salt Lake City next week to go bring the gospel to general conference

01:08:07

So we're gonna have Lord willing footage from that as well out there doing evangelism We might even do some live streaming right here on this channel when we do that, but for sure

01:08:17

We're gonna go out there and and try to bring the gospel to them and so we may end up doing like a live broadcast from Salt Lake City from our motherland our evangelism out there to the