June 11, 2026 Show with Jacob Tanner on “A Qualified Man: Cultivating the Character of a Godly Leader” (Part 2)

Part Two of "A Qualified Man: Cultivating the Character of a Godly Leader"

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 11th day of June 2026.

And before I introduce to you my returning guest and part two of a conversation that we began last week that we will be continuing today, I just want to have you mark your calendars for a couple of what I think are going to be important and fascinating conversations next week on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Many of you may remember my friend Bill Hill, pastor of Providence Church in Evansville, Indiana, which is a PCA congregation, or actually, it was a PCA congregation, a congregation in the Presbyterian Church in America.

And Pastor Bill is going to be discussing on our show this Monday, the 15th of June, why he left the PCA. And that should be a fascinating conversation. And then on Tuesday, the 16th of June, my very dear friends, for many years, William Webster and David King, who are not only each pastor's one Reformed Baptist, that would be William Webster, and one a Presbyterian, that would be David King, but they also are both authors, and William Webster has written a number of books, but both he and David King have written together a groundbreaking, massive three-volume work titled, Holy Scripture, the Ground and Pillar of Our Faith, which proves that the church fathers believed in sola scriptura long before the Protestant Reformation.

So that should be a fascinating conversation that you should definitely mark your calendars for. And last but not least, we have a first-time guest on Wednesday, the 17th of June, and that is Scott Cooke.

And Scott Cooke is going to be discussing the upcoming vote in the PCA on the ordination of female deacons. And Scott himself is a PCA minister. He happens to be a pastor in South Carolina. Specifically he is the pastor of the Oconee Presbyterian Church of Seneca, South Carolina, and I hope that I pronounced Oconee correctly.

But I was strongly urged and highly recommended to interview Scott specifically on his stance against the ordination of female deacons, which is going to likely be the pivotal vote for the next PCA General Assembly in two weeks, I believe that's going to be held.

And so I'm looking forward to hearing what Scott has to say. And hopefully we'll have Scott back on after the General Assembly as well to discuss whatever that outcome was. Well, anyway, as I was saying before, I am thrilled to have back on the program Jacob Tanner.

He's an author and he's also a pastor of Christ Keystone Church in Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania, and a teaching fellow with the Ezra Institute. And we have Jacob back on the show today. To continue a conversation we began last Thursday on a qualified man cultivating the character of a godly leader.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to continue the conversation on your new book, Jacob Tanner.

Yeah, thank you, Chris, for having me back on the show. It's always a pleasure to be on here and to talk with you.

Christ Keystone Church and the Ezra Institute

And for those of our listeners who missed your last interview, tell them, please, about Christ Keystone Church there in Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania.

Sure. So we are a reformed church here in central PA. Actually, we are able to market. We were crazy and we planted the church right around the time that my wife was due to give birth to our second son.

And he just celebrated his fourth birthday yesterday, which means that the church is now officially four years old. Actually, a few weeks ago, but we didn't realize it. So we're four years old reformed church.

God has been thankfully blessing the work. And we now have an official church building of our own, which we were able to purchase and pay off in Mifflinburg. So anybody that maybe heard me on here before or has heard me different places, we used to always say that we were in Middleburg.

It's not a mistake. We actually are now in Mifflinburg. We're about like two or three towns over, but in Mifflinburg. And we are passionate about spreading the gospel, passionate about evangelism and passionate about discipleship.

So praise the Lord. We have a pretty thriving, I would argue, church community. We're not yet a massive church, and I'm not sure that we ever will be. But we have about 70 people and we are continuing to grow.

And we have lots of children, young people. We're very much interested in that idea of family integrated worship. So having the family together, children are in the worship and we are worshiping God together.

And we've got every generation imaginable represented. And we have, like I said, 70 members, usually on Sundays with visitors and everything else. We may have more people coming through. But really, our focus is to continue doing what we have been doing, which is to reform the church.

This is our tagline, by the way. And I use this tagline a lot of different places. Reform the church, rebuild biblical community, and reclaim culture for Christ.

Amen. If anybody wants to find out more about Christ Keystone Church in Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania, their website is ChristKeystoneChurch .org, ChristKeystoneChurch .org. Now tell us about the Ezra Institute, where you are a teaching fellow.

Yeah, so the Ezra Institute is doing some absolutely amazing work. I think that it actually overlaps quite a bit with what we're doing, which is why it made really good sense for me to be part of the work there.

My particular work with Ezra is that I am a fellow of Puritan thought. And so a lot of the work that I'm doing relates to the Puritans, research on Puritans, and also recovering that sort of Puritan mindset as much as we can.

We recognize that they were imperfect, but the Puritans did a lot of really great things as well. For example, they had a wonderful work ethic, despite what a lot of people say. They were very joyful.

They were family oriented. Men were men. Women were women. Children were children, which are all great things that we need to recover for today. And so that's really a lot of my work there, also helping to raise up pastors and those who are able to engage the culture.

Ezra's work as a whole could be thought of as cultural reformation, making sure that Christians think Christianly in every single sphere and area of life, whether it's a pastor or whether it be somebody who lays concrete, whether it be the mother who's at home raising children or whether it be the doctor who's taking care of sick patients.

We want everyone thinking Christianly, and we want everyone to be underneath the lordship of Christ in all areas of life. So that's a really quick rundown of Ezra's Institute's mission. And if anybody's really interested in what's going on there, Joe Boot actually released a relatively new book called Think Christianly, which is fantastic and I think really gives some great insight into what Ezra is interested in doing.

If anybody wants more details on the Ezra Institute, go to EzraInstitute .com. That's E-Z-R-A Institute .com. And you were so right about your description of the Puritans when men were men and women were women.

And there is no one who has ever been able to rock a powdered wig like the Puritans. That's one way of putting it, for sure. I have always thought that someone should compile a treatise called Proper Masculine Attire and the Care and Maintenance of Powdered Wigs.

Wait, has anybody done that yet? Chris, I'm writing this down right now. Well, if you could, give our listeners, for the sake of those especially who missed last Thursday's interview, and even for the sake of those who did hear, but that's been a week and they may have forgotten some of what we addressed about a qualified man cultivating the character of a godly leader, give us a recap of an overall view of what we addressed.

And then when you're finished, we will enter into the area of your book that we really didn't have time to touch last Thursday, and that is cultivating the character of a godly leader.

Recap of Biblical Qualifications for Elders

So, I think it was last Thursday we discussed predominantly the qualifications of an elder and how important it is to pay attention to those qualifications. And it would probably be helpful if I reminded listeners, or if this is the first time they're listening, to go to Titus chapter 1, or you can go to 1 Timothy chapter 3, but let me read Titus chapter 1, verses 5 through 9, and this is what the entirety of the book centers on.

First, understanding Titus 1, 5 to 9, and the qualifications of an elder listed here, and then secondly, in each chapter, applying these qualifications so that we can cultivate them. And one of the things that I'll say up front here is that this is not just for the pastor.

This is also for the husband and father. This is for, as I've already said, the concrete bricklayer. This is for the baker. This is for the police officer. This is for the doctor, the physician. This is for every single Christian man.

All of us should be desiring to cultivate these qualities. And this is what I read. So Titus chapter 1, verse 5, this is why I left you in Crete, the Apostle Paul is writing here to Titus, so that you might put what remained into order and appoint elders in every town as I directed you.

If anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach.

He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

So as we look at those qualifications, there are obviously several things there that are challenging, for example, to be above reproach. That's incredibly difficult for just about every single man on earth today.

We're told not to be arrogant or quick-tempered, which I think is something that many men struggle with. You know, we who are masculine have often tempers. But shut up! Exactly. It's just kind of the way that we're wired.

And after the fall, after sin entered into the human race, it's very easy for us to give in to that quick-temperedness and to fall into sin. We're told to love that which is good, to be self-controlled, to be holy and disciplined.

But if we're honest, these are all several different things, and that's just a few of them, right? The whole list that I just read there can be very difficult. But what I'm trying to get across to men, first of all, especially to pastors, is that these are not impossible.

By the grace of God and through the power of the Holy Spirit, these are the exact qualities that we must be cultivating. And they're the exact qualities that we must possess if we're going to serve God's people in God's church.

And one of the main reasons for that is because in verse 9, we're told our goal, our task as pastors and preachers is to actually teach people the trustworthy word. Now, it's kind of difficult to do that if you basically are saying to people, hey, do what I say to do, but don't pay attention to what I do because I'm not going to keep that myself.

So one who is a trustworthy teacher must be holy, must be righteous. But on top of that, men in general should be desiring, as long as they're Christian men, of course, they should be desiring to have these exact qualities and characteristics.

I can't think of any Christian man who would look at this list and say, you know what? It says here that I shouldn't be a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but actually, I'm going to ignore that.

That's just for the pastor. I think that because I'm not a pastor, I'm going to become arrogant or I'm going to be quick tempered. I'm going to be a drunkard. I'm going to get drunk every single day or I'm going to be really violent.

I'm going to get into fights every day or I'm going to be greedy for gain. I'm going to turn into somebody who's envious of everything that everyone else has. No true Christian man is going to look at that text and say, that's only for the pastor.

In fact, I think every Christian man should be able to look at this list and say, yes and amen. This is what I want for my own life. This is what I want for my own household. I want to have a wife who loves me, a wife whom I love, one whom I am leading.

I want to have children who love me, who I love also, who are not insubordinate, but are in fact listening. They're obedient. These are all things that are good, good things that we should all desire as Christian men.

And that was kind of what we talked about last week, the importance of these things. And on top of that, if we took this list seriously, and I think this is the reason many don't, if we took this list seriously, there would be a lot of empty pulpits this coming Sunday.

And that means that if we're actually going to see a reformation and revival, true biblical revival, it's going to mean we have to take it seriously. And it starts, I believe, in the pulpit.

The Problem of Pride in Leadership

Yes, and one of those areas of the biblical qualifications for men in leadership, that they shouldn't be arrogant. That is something I think especially that may be overlooked by pulpit search committees and churches looking for a pastor.

They may think that the haughtiness of a candidate for office is due to the fact that he is so gifted and so brilliant that he deserves to have that air about him. But the Bible says that he must not have that air about him.

And sometimes we in the Reformed faith have earned the caricature that many mock us for of pride and arrogance. Now, I know we don't hold the market on that. I've met many arrogant Arminians and Pentecostals and fundamentalists who hate Calvinism.

But we have the least excuse for it because the doctrines we believe are supposed to humble us to the very dust of the ground and make us totally dependent on the sovereign God and recognize He is deserving of all the praise for everything good within us and that we receive.

But yet it is still a problem, and people will have to be more on the lookout for that sign because it's a recipe for disaster when you have a man aspiring to be a church leader who is arrogant.

Yeah, I think that we can also point to the sort of uptick in proud, arrogant, self righteous young men. We can point to that uptick as taking place because that's what they've seen within many pulpits.

And actually, I wouldn't even say in pulpits, because a lot of these young guys aren't in church. What's happening is you have, quote unquote, pastors, I would say disqualified men, actually, but they call themselves pastors.

They have podcasts and they are arrogant, they are quick tempered, they're proud, they're always right about everything, no matter how wrong they actually are. You can show them all the facts and evidence in the world and they'll still tell you that you're wrong.

When that's coming out of pulpits, when that's coming out of the mouth of a, quote unquote, preacher within a church, ultimately you're going to reap what you sow. And what's being sown within the lives of so many young men today is that exact sort of arrogance and pridefulness.

And there's a huge problem there because what it then does is you look at the other parts of the list. Let's just take hospitality as an example. We're told that we as men are to be hospitable unto others.

Well, if you're so proud and arrogant that you can't even look at somebody who maybe isn't as far along in their Christian walk as you are, they're not as smart as you are or whatever, there's a million categories that you could put people into, right?

If you're so prideful that you can't look at that person, you're never going to be hospitable to that person. And I think that this also brings up a really good text here, which is 1 Corinthians chapter 4, verse 7.

And in that text, we read, For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it? We who are Christians need to recognize we are saved by the sovereign grace of God alone, not because of any works, but because of the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It's all of him. The only thing that we contribute, right, that famous quote, the only thing that we contribute is the sin that made it necessary. Christ has done all of the rest. And so that's a pretty good reason to stay humble as Christians and not to give into that tendency of arrogance and pridefulness, which actually, you know, it's fitting to talk about in the month of June because pride comes before a fall.

Amen. Well, let's dive now into the aspect of cultivating this, and I'm assuming that you've learned this cultivating aspect of what you are writing about. And because I just received the book, so I haven't had time to read the book myself.

But I'm assuming that you are intending to provide counsel and teaching on not only how the body of Christ is to cultivate godly leaders among us in our congregations, but also cultivating these aspects and these requirements within ourselves.

In fact, I already have a listener before I even announced our email address, David from Ada, Ohio. And he says, please explain how to apply this to our lives. So am I correct in that the book seeks to provide counsel not only inwardly for ourselves, but also how the body of Christ is supposed to cultivate this among those that we view as potential leaders in our own group?

Cultivating Godly Character in Leaders and Believers

Yes, exactly. So each chapter, like I said, deals with either the entirety of a verse or an aspect of one of those verses that I read earlier from Titus 1, 5 to 9. And the way that you could think about it is typically—now, some chapters I change up here and there just to keep people on their feet, you know?

But I will start with the doctrine. What does this actually mean? And then I'll go through a list. How do we apply this within our homes? How do we apply this within our church? And then how do we apply this also within our nation?

And again, the general idea here is that I am majorly targeting pastors, but not just pastors. I'm looking at the entire broad landscape of Christian men, and I'm saying, look, we are—within our homes, for example—we are prophets, priests, and kings.

Just like Christ fulfills that threefold function for us, that's how we rule within our home as Christian men. So how do we act as prophets? How do we apply the Word of God to our children? And it goes back to what I was saying earlier.

Well, you've got to cultivate those godly habits. So if the Bible tells us, don't be proud, and you're somebody who is prone to pride, here's what you need to do. Crucify your flesh daily. Go back to something like 1 Corinthians 4, 17 and read it and read it and reread it again and again.

Remind yourself daily that you are a dead sinner, and dead sinners can't do anything. It's like the story of Jesus calling forth Lazarus from the grave. They say, Jesus says, roll the rock away, and Lazarus' sisters go, no, it stinks in there.

He's been dead for four days. What can a dead person do but stink? That's all we did. We stung in the nostrils of God because of our sin, and yet God, by his grace, rescued us. He redeemed us. He saved us.

And some people will say, well, it's like I was a drowning man and he threw me a life raft. No, that's not what happened. You were dead. If anything, you were at the bottom of the sea. You were at the bottom of the ocean.

You were a pile of bones. And Jesus, the giver and bringer of life, swam all the way down to that ocean where you had drowned, and he pulled you back up, pile of dry dead bones that you were, and he breathed life into you, and he brought you back from your death.

He brought you to new life in himself. Remind yourself of that daily. If you struggle with pride, just remind yourself you were a dead carcass before Christ came and rescued you. That's a pretty humbling thought.

Or, for example, we deal in here with hospitality. And this is something that our church is really big on in general, so it was fun to write about, but we want to produce households that are hospitable unto others.

So if we have, for example, a visitor coming to our church on Sunday, I want to know, number one, that visitors are going to be made to feel welcomed. Now, not overwhelmed, because there's a balance there, but I want them to feel welcomed.

And I also want to know that there's somebody within the congregation who's going to say to that visitor, hey, if you're not busy today, you want to have lunch? We can have you over to our house. If you're not comfortable with that, we'd be happy to go out and get lunch with you, but we would love to get to know you more.

We want to produce that hospitality. So part of what I do in the book is I explain a little bit of how we can be hospitable towards others. So you're right, Chris, that is a major part of the book. I'm very big into the idea of not just explaining the doctrine in an expository way, but bringing about the application so that we can practically apply these principles to our lives.

Yes, and when you were talking earlier about Lazarus being pulled out of the grave by Christ, that is the classic example of how we can reply to our non-Reformed friends and brethren when they frequently will say, very often angrily, that God would never command us to do something that we were not innately able to do.

Obviously, a dead man cannot only not rise up and leave a tomb, he can't even hear the call to do that unless he is first made alive. And that is what Christ does when he draws his elect to himself. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

I know this is a little off-subject from the topic of the book, but I was in a debate one time with somebody, very much Arminian, through and through, and I brought that text up, and I walked them through the passage verse by verse, and we got up to the part of Lazarus being called forth.

And I said, okay, so Jesus has the stone rolled away, and he calls out with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. At this point, can Lazarus say no? So, Jesus calls him forth, and then Lazarus is in the tomb, and all you hear is, no, not today.

Can Lazarus do that? And they were forced to say, well, no, he had to obey. And I said, right. So, when we receive the gospel call, inwardly, through the Holy Spirit, calling us unto Christ, God authoritatively calling us.

So, this is different than the outward gospel call, which goes out to everybody, everywhere. This is the inward call, which happens simultaneously with the outward call for the elect. Does that person have the opportunity to say no?

And I remember the conversation did not go well after that. I was called a few different names, and then the person left the conversation. But if you have an understanding of that, I think rather than making us prideful, it ought to humble us.

There's nothing I did to earn this salvation. And as pastors, as husbands, as fathers, as Christians within the home, man, not only should that be humbling, I think it should be a reason for joy. God loved me enough to do these things.

God actually loved us so much that while we were yet sinners, He sent His only Son. That should, within each of us, I think, produce the heart desire to fulfill these qualifications that we see laid out before us in Scripture.

Tom Miller.

Well, thank you, David. And please make sure that we have your mailing address in Ada, Ohio, so that you can receive a free copy of the book that we are addressing. And once again, this book that we are addressing, which is no doubt one of the most important subjects for the health and stability of the local church and a way to help prevent the local church from drifting into error and anarchy and all kinds of heresy.

Once again, the book is A Qualified Man, Cultivating the Character of a Godly Leader by my guest, Jacob Tanner. For those of you who just tuned in, this is part two of a conversation that we began last week on the 4th of June.

We have to go to our first commercial break, and if any of you listening would like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages.

I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune God.

We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ. In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every Sunday.

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And we rejoice with Becky Camorcraft and the congregation of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Pastor Joe is now back home after his stay in the hospital and the physical rehab unit after his fall a couple of months ago.

He preached last Sunday. I heard it was a wonderful sermon, but we still need to continue to pray for Joe. Apparently, he has partial hearing loss as a result of this trial that he is going through physically.

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He is one of my favorite guests and the favorite of a growing number of my listeners. So I'll keep you updated on that. But we are now back with Jacob Tanner to continue our conversation on a qualified man cultivating the character of a godly leader.