Leadership Question Answer — Jim Cymbala

Bible Translation and the King James Only Debate

Persons constantly beat up by King James only is because I use the NIV Bible. They tell me the NIV is not the true word of God. I need your encouragement as I'm getting weary. I just would like to say this to you.

There is a book out by the same man Greek scholar Gordon Fee. He wrote a famous book that's used in Dallas Theological Seminary and other places called How to read the Bible for all its worth. Gordon Fee how to read the Bible for all its worth and if you ever hear of it Just lift your hand if you've ever heard of it.

Oh. Most of you well his most recent book of that ilk with written with a partner is called How to choose a Bible translation for all its worth. It's only a hundred and ninety pages long. I think It's a masterpiece.

He doesn't recommend any one translation. He doesn't bash any. He tells you the strengths weaknesses and the approaches. The approach to biblical translation because he's a translator so that people say no, I just want a literal translation.

I want the New American Standard or the King James because they're more literal. There are no literal translations all translation involves interpretation and judgment calls. For example, he points out that in the New American Standard Bible one Greek word one Greek word is Translated by 17 different English words.

Well, what does that Greek word mean? Just make it the same every place. No the Laws of translation are by context and the way it's used. You know the translation changes. Well, who has a right to say it just make it literal.

Well there there's no such a thing all translation involves interpretation and making judgment calls. But it gives you a great if you know that book and digest that book. Nobody will ever bother you again.

Sectarianism and Division in the Church

By the way, I was approached maybe nobody hardly anyone bothers me about that except we put out one person from the church. I was a King James only person a very odd. I felt bad for him, but he was causing too much trouble.

He came up to me 10 12 years ago and said why are you cheating the people? By not preaching giving them the true Word of God. I said, what are you talking about? He said it's the King James or the road or hit the road or something like that a businessman looked Intelligent and all of that.

So I said to him Look go home and show me one teaching that you can make if there's a conspiracy To water down the Word of God with the NIV or whatever. Go home and find one doctrine that you can teach from the King James.

That you that I can't teach from the NIV just go home and tell me then I'm open that that there's a conspiracy To do away with the deity of Christ or this or that or this and of course Manuscripts older ones newer ones how translation is done is covered in that book.

I mentioned so what he did was He never came back to me with anything because there is no teaching that you can't teach so. But he had a fighting spirit. He had a party spirit. You know a party spirit is listed in the Bible with adultery and murder and a lot of other terrible things.

And a party spirit doesn't mean you wear a party hat and blow one of those things out. It means a sectarian party spirit. It means a Baptist spirit where the only thing you think is worthwhile is Baptist.

That you have a little bit more than everyone else or assembly of God or charismatic they're the only ones who are in the flow. Nobody else is doing anything for God or or or Calvinist or Arminian or it can be local church a horrible Abominable Brooklyn Tabernacle cult spirit that the only church.

It really is doing it right as the Brooklyn Beast these parties spirit this little grouping spirit divides the body of Christ in a horrible Way, he had a King James cult spirit on him or something. But he kept coming to the church.

So I kept seeing him and his worship and then he wrote me a letter the meetings means so much and all of that. So I saw him one day and I said listen my friend I see you in church all the time. But I remember what you said to me and you wrote one letter about how all translations are perversion and all of that as if the Apostle Paul was reading from the King James, so I said look I'm happy if the meetings mean something to you fine.

But why don't you go somewhere where they preach from the King James. Wouldn't that make more sense? If the King James is where it's at go to a church with the King James don't come here. You know never hold on to anyone in your church for their tithes or their attendance who's going to cause a problem all in favor.

Say aye. Because they will bite you. They will bite you and that shows no faith in God so. He he he. He said no, I just I meet God every time I come here. I said even though the preaching is a perversion.

I said, okay, but listen you can stay but behave yourself. Because if we find out that you're causing trouble by talking to people in the church this nonsense King James nonsense. We will come after you.

Okay, we will come after you because anyone who causes division. We don't fool around. Mark those that cause division among them warn them once twice then have nothing to do with them. That's the Bible, right?

Don't you know that two years went by and the guy got became friends with my mother. Not friends like that my mother's 40 years older than him 30 years older. But he became a friend of my mother and and drove her up to see a friend of mine the son of Sam serial killer David Berkowitz who's a very godly Christian Wonderful servant of the Lord in prison took her up there had pictures with my mother and all that and got close to her.

And he kind of like admired me. It was a love-hate kind of thing. Well, don't you know that I find out someone comes to me and says, you know, I've been invited by this man to a special House meeting.

House meetings are very dangerous when they're not authorized by the church. He has a house meeting because he's going to tell us the inside scoop about you know Translations and all that. I couldn't believe it.

Then another person came and warned me and said I went to this meeting. You would not be happy with it. He was really pounding people who were not present. Okay, so I then went to him. We called him in and I I had the pastor do that.

I Who had warned him don't don't talk that that smack anymore here, so he he. So then it came to him says I couldn't. I have to stand for the truth. I said fine stand for the truth, but don't stand for it here stand for it wherever you want to go.

But don't don't come in and cause division. That's like those people the Bible says they creep in unawares, right? They don't make their own converts. Most of these troublemakers these hypo hyper Calvinist and all these people causing division and all that they never make their own converts.

They couldn't win a soul most of them if their life depended on it. They go where their Christians already are there and they proselytize. I Learned that a long time ago. I tell people sometimes if you know so much start your own church.

Show me how it's done. I'll learn from you. Not one has ever taken me up on that. Not one. So but that book will help you. Sorry to go off on that tangent here. I'm venting a little bit. I I need therapy.

I haven't gotten over that one yet. So no, but. But we try to handle think Carol Carol just asked what was it a year ago. Carol Carol asked somebody out of the choir. Why talking do they sing good? Maybe I don't know she can judge that.

If you're talking cause division you can't stay there. You can't stay in the choir. Because Carol prays and and asked God to bless that ministry which he has greatly blessed. So what are you gonna do while you're singing?

You're saying come Holy Spirit. I need thee and because of the divisive spirit you're saying get out Holy Spirit. We don't want you. So what are you gonna do? That's why a lot of churches are on this.

You know what you work out on it's called the what kind of mill a treadmill. Are you moving? Yes. Are you going anywhere? No, that's why a lot of churches are because of division and talking and putting up with nonsense.

They're praying preaching singing, but they're not going to go much anywhere because Jesus laid down as the first Spiritual principle, please remember this. I wanted to talk about this today, but it didn't work out that way.

But just you think ponder it any house divided against itself cannot stand. No kingdom divided itself no choir no church. No, but I love Jesus you still won't stand. Because anything divided against itself is coming down first.

It's weakened. It's dissipated. Do you think crack cocaine or an alcohol or stealing money or meeting someone in a motel? Do you think that's what holds most churches back? Of course not they slay their thousands.

What slay their tens of thousands is this division King James? Bustling among the people and all of that. So we try to be vigilant. Look, we're not running Paris Island Marine Corps here. You got to be gentle and kind to people but once you warn them as the Bible says mark those that cause division.

You know somebody here needs to hear this because you need to get the courage from God to face what you're facing it is. What it is. Mark those that cause division among you warn them once warn them a second time after that have nothing to do with them.

So we told this guy you're not welcome here because you cause division. You're not building up people. You're pulling the thing apart. That's not right. If you feel that strongly didn't I tell you four years before if you felt that strongly find a church that would make you happy.

Tell anyone who's criticizing criticizing. Hey, praise God. You don't like it here. No, your choirs too loud, and they're always lifting their hands. That's not something I think that's important. Then fine go to a church where they don't lift their hands.

You can find them. Find a quiet church if that's your thing go wherever you feel like but don't go anywhere where you're going to criticize and Then leave and you're always venting and you're always feeling bad.

Listen, don't you think we have our own personality here? You were here Sunday. Don't we have our own personality here? Did anyone say to you have we ever said to you and during this conference? This is the way to do church go home and copy us.

Did you hear that ever said here? I don't care what you do. Were you there? I just want God to bless you in your church. Whatever your personality is go for it. But remember the common goal soul saves people disciple the love of God spirit of worship and praise people loving Jesus.

When a Church Is Not Edifying

How you get there is your business. God has to. God has to lead you but divisive spirit. You have to deal with that or trouble just divisive people. By the way, somebody also met a question that I'd like to handle what do I do?

I it's a lay person here or someone in leadership. I go to my church and I'm so discouraged and I go and I go and I pray and nothing's happening and I leave the Church every every week discouraged. I just want to tell you my feelings on that.

This is not thus sayeth the Lord. I don't have a verse for you. Although I I would have one verse that I would apply because I try to think biblically the Bible says let everything be done to Edification if you're not being edified, maybe God is sending you a letter leave.

But I cannot see any place in the Bible where you should go to church if you have any other choice to go someplace else. Well, no, that's the church. I grew up and with my family and my friends go there and all that.

Look you do what you feel, but what I tell people go to the pastor and leadership. This is what I think is being done on biblically if there is anything on biblical. Maybe it's just a cold spirit like Pastor Claude wasn't he the bomb today, but Pastor Claude was so good.

Let's thank God again for Pastor Claude. So good. Like that church that he was in that was like a refrigerator. Some churches are like that. Okay, or some churches are not don't welcome visitors, especially if they're people who are other.

I was talking with a precious couple during lunch today and a lot of people who pound the Bible and Are all fundamentalist when it comes to Scripture, they have no love for a black person. They have no love for Latino.

They have no love. They have no love. They don't want those people in their church. And if the neighbor changes they're moving. They will move talk about white flight in terms of housing churches have white flight.

Hold denominations they were like that during the Civil War pro-slavery and although they Say they're not that way Jesus said, you know a tree bites fruit. Don't go by what people say go by how they act.

Okay my my wife had a different background, but my background was the church my mom and dad dragged me to was extreme holiness oriented fundamentalist kind of Pentecostal Church Baptism in Jesus name or you weren't even a Christian.

No makeup no cutting of hair no wearing of red shoes. No, I'm telling you the truth that was considered worldly. The men weren't allowed in certain parts of that denomination weren't allowed to wear wedding rings.

Tell to us if a guy doesn't wear a wedding band here. We figure he's cruising. We want to talk to him and say how come you're married and you won't wear a wedding band, right? But it was a kind of reverse thing now you see with all that fundamentalism and all of that.

No, no, no, the women would have hair down to their bottom of their calves never cut it once. Black person come to their church never. Never. So, what are you gonna do with that theologically. If any I'm stuck with this verse if anyone says he loves God and doesn't love his brother.

He's a liar and the truth is not in him. You can have all the holiness standards and doctrinal purity that you claim to have. If you don't love people who Christ died for where we're not talking about that today brother.

How in the world Christ died for someone you don't want him in your church. Let me get this right. Christ Shed his blood for a human being and you don't want him in your church. But you want the blessing of the Holy Spirit you have a problem.

Prayer Walking and Biblical Prayer

I have a problem if that's in me. Go to all the leadership conferences. You can you can work up any kind of sound you want in the worship. God is a God who looks at the heart. Amen. You mentioned prayer stations Yesterday and and in the about in the prayer band.

What about prayer walking? Do you practice that? Also, we don't do prayer walks here. Main reason is anyone wants to do a prayer walk? Praise God walk and pray. But I don't find them in the Bible. I don't see him in the New Testament.

I'm not a believer in prayer towers. Anything like that. I don't believe we need to go in the basement. I don't believe we need to go up high. I don't believe in anything else. But what I see in the New Testament when God's people pray he's going to do something.

Can we all put our hands together for that? He's going to do something. You want to walk? You want to walk? I saw a group 20 years ago in the city from a para church ministry. And I the instruction was be given they were using our church.

In fact, and they're all these young kids from different parts of the country now when you walk in Manhattan. And you pray every place you put your foot just remember now you possess that for God because Joshua, you know.

And they quoted Joshua. Well, that's that's not rightly dividing the Word of God. If it was that simple Paul would have walked just all through Ephesus and claimed the whole thing he never would have been thrown in prison and.

In all of that the mysteries of prayer are only learned by praying and you don't have to walk. I I took a long walk the other day because I needed to pray and Sometimes I get tired and sleepy if I go in another position.

So I walked so you can walk and pray but prayer walks as the answer. Pulling down strongholds of certain territories and all of that. I do not see that in the New Testament as a practice. I don't see it in Jesus's life.

I don't doesn't matter if it's an evangelical or charismatic teaching. I want to judge everything by the Word of God. But if someone says no we did prayer walks and God blessed it praise God. Keep walking keep praying do it whatever whatever works for you, right?

Conference Planning and Praise Songs

But never argue for something that's not found in Scripture. All in favor say aye. Will there be a conference leaders conference in? 2011 yes, God willing and I've asked Ravi Zacharias to be here along with Francis Chan.

Who's a friend who's preached here and I want to get some other speakers. Like of that ilk who will really bless us and as soon as we know the dates. We've actually pulled some dates together. We'll get that word out to you.

We'll let you know first and Can we get the words to the praise songs if yes, how. I don't know what song you were thinking about but. Again, unless we've recorded a song I would look at what what song has praise and worship on it definitely I'll say yes has some songs like I adore you.

But this last album has some up praise songs, and I surrender on it but otherwise we don't have sheet music for any of the songs were. Unless Carol records it there's no book made so we really can't help you.

Studying the Bible Systematically

I Want to study the Bible systematically. Can you give me some tips also? To study it so I can get a systematic approach to the Bible. That book that I mentioned on Sunday to the congregation, did you see me hold up that workbook there?

That's excellent. There is a book a book a bigger book a more challenging book called how to Know explore the book by J. Sidlow Baxter. It's older, but it's very good. There are some excellent study Bibles.

The best study Bible I've gotten hold of this is a TN IV study Bible that Sondra van gave me as a present. They're coming out by the way with a new NIV the new NIV 2011 is coming out. I think they said in March.

But I read sometimes especially in the Old Testament from the New Living Translation and my friend Warren Worsley has come out. I don't agree with every approach. He takes on every note we're all bound by or limited or whatever by all of us by the tradition we grow up in and other people don't see it that way, but he has a Bible called the Transformation Bible it's available in there.

That is the best study Bible I've ever seen because even this Bible here. Sometimes it gives me too much information on the bottom and it distracts me from the text. What they have done with my friend brother Wearsby is.

They have put his nuggets from his b-series and his commentaries. Anyone ever read anything by Warren Wearsby could just hold up your hand good most everyone so they put those nuggets on the bottom and it just Opens up certain verses great introductions to the book.

So, you know where the books are my approach to that is this you have to find some instrument for yourself or for someone else. So that you know the Bible systematically from Genesis to Revelation, you know The history of the Bible and every book, you know where it fits in the big picture.

That's what you need to know first and That workbook and some other things can help you. Of course if you went to Bible school or seminary you got that I'm sure. Although how to read the Bible for all its worth that little book and then.

Applying Old Testament Promises Under the New Covenant

How to read the books of the Bible for all their worth another one by Gordon Fee they're excellent foundational how to approach scripture. When do you how can you just apply an Old Testament verse to to the New Testament because it's in the Bible.

Can you just do that to our situation today? You know. You feel a lot of the false faith teachers. And some of the extremes in the charismatic movement a lot of the error there is formed. They have a lot of truth there in some of the things they say but one of the errors is taking Old Testament verses said to Israel while they were in the land and applying to us today and Forgetting about the cross and the different covenant that we live under, you know I'll make you the head and not the tail then what in the world was Paul getting beat in prison if he's the head and not the tail.

I Know what it is to be thrown in the open sea. I know what it is to have a lot. I know it is to have a little no. You're not gonna ever have a little in the Old Testament. The Old Testament covenant is if you obey God and you're there you always have victory in every battle and all of that.

There's no getting thrown in prison and all of that. Now David is a prophetic figure and you can see in his life the foreshadowing of the new covenant. Where we have this mystical thing called the cross if we suffer for him, we will also reign with him right so.

They they're very good at that in that book how to read the Bible for its worth because they clearly show that if you're just Gonna take any Old Testament verse and apply them indiscriminately to the New Testament, you know I'll make your barns filled and all of this.

Well go to be our friend tell the Christians and be off for that. Go to Ethiopia where my grandson comes from and just tell or how about all the churches being burnt in in Pakistan now so anyway. You have to my position is this no verse from the Old Testament can be preached on unless there's confirmation of its truth in the New Testament.

So you can't tell people today don't eat pork and hold up the Bible and say put that rib down you Backslider you can't eat that because in the New Testament Jesus proclaimed that all food is clean. Amen.

By the way, here's another thing. I'm having a little dialogue or was with a seventh-day Seventh-day Adventist critiquer who is you know at One of those things again, I appreciate the church and the music but you're just falsely leading the people.

You know, there are seventh-day Adventist people fall into two groups. Some are are like born again, and they understand that there's other people in the body of Christ. I've met them. They're precious.

Whitley Phipps by the way is one like that. He's seventh-day Adventist worships on Saturday won't eat pork, but he obviously knows other people are Christians. But then the hardliners in there. We're all going to hell.

We all have the mark of the beast on us because we worship on Sunday. Did you ever notice that in the New Testament. Under all the works of the flesh that are listed in several places Sabbath breaking is never mentioned.

New things are brought in like party spirit. Right and stuff like that not mentioned so much in the Old Testament. So You have to understand the Covenant you have to understand the Bible then you start building and I've started building a lot of years.

Ago by reading commentaries or books by spiritual masters on the Holy Spirit. A .B. Simpson the founder of the Missionary Alliance. Most of his books are out of print. If you can get anything by A .B. Simpson, just read it and be blessed.

Just read it and be blessed. Revival literature has been a blessing to me. Commentaries on the book of the Bible so I can dig deeper and Understand the Word of God better, but to all the pastors and people who want to teach or preach the Word of God never stop studying.

The day that you think you know the Bible you're doomed. How many are just still learning it today like me come on wave your hand at me just learning it now. I mean, it's it has no bottom to it. Has such depth we're all just learning it so keep studying and and have someone speak in your life.

Learning Through Books, Sermons, and Conferences

One good thing about books is tape some people are CD listener tape listen download sermons. I'm not that kind of person. So much although I do listen and enjoy things and I need to go to more conferences and hear people speak into my life.

But I have a lot of reading that I do where sermons are being preached. And I sit there as if I'm in the church and now someone's ministering to me. And I say God talk to me today, and those people I'll meet in heaven one day.

Most of them are dead, but boy. They they have blessed me so much and spoken into my life because when you're giving out for six years I did four services every Sunday. Six years four services every Sunday nine twelve three and six.

Two hours long at least each service, and they would just put me in a body bag at the end of the day and send me Ship me home somewhere. And now these three services and then going out and being here there and everywhere.

So the question is if you're always giving out what a joy to sit and hear pastor Claude. Oh my goodness. What a joy to hear Franklin yesterday you know and. So all I can recommend is find your way of learning the Bible.

But this is what's what this is what people on Fulton Street and Smith Street are longing for right now. Someone who will love them who's full of the Word of God. Right and Is open to the Holy Spirit?

That's all people are looking for. Do you think anyone's out there going if only someone would come with a PhD. God? Send me someone with a PhD or at least an MDIV because I don't want to just talk to anybody.

You think anyone struggling with crack cocaine you think anyone's out there thinking that? No. All you have to do is love them with the love of God have a working knowledge of the Bible and have faith to follow the Holy Spirit.

What do you think they need where else he is in Haiti you think any of those kids are praying? Oh, God send me somebody with a PhD. Just love a working knowledge of the Bible. Do you ever think that that's why God chose fishermen instead of rabbis to be his 12 followers?

Why would he chose fishermen and tax collectors people who were were not that literate in Scripture? Because they would have to depend on the Holy Spirit which brings me to the final question which we'll end up with.

Church Membership and Ministry Preparation

How do you handle by the way disciple ministries? We have Nine we have a how long how long do we study before they become a member. How long is that class somebody help me? Seven weeks of Classes you take before you become a member so we we and an interview to find out where they're coming from what they know.

Or have been mistaught or whatever. And then we have four times a year a ministry preparation class three consecutive nights of teaching six seven eight hours on this last one was a class on Mormonism a apologetic course on Genesis and one on Intimacy with God knowing God better and and We don't have then then there's Be transformed that people take that's kind of done under the radar and just blessing people left and right.

And we have a class on Friday Friday nights for Help me for those who have been drugs celebrate recovery. We have a chapter of that and all a lot of these things only work as well as the people who are leading them.

When Church Leadership Is Not Feeding the People

There are no secrets. There's no teaching that if you do it, it just solves everything. It's God doesn't use systems. He uses people. My pastor is a good man. He's not feeding the people I've prayed but nothing's changed.

What should I do? And then it says Assistant pastor no name. Well that that now that's a hard one boy. You got to really pray. Gotta ask God what you should do. Obviously talk to the pastor. If I was an assistant pastor, and I felt that and go to the pastor gently lovingly.

This is where I what I you know think God wants us to change. You might win them. God could use you or he might turn on you and If he turned on you, I see the bond that the bind there is if that's your salary.

The Church Was Born in Corporate Prayer

Then then that's problematic, but you got to follow your heart to wherever God wants you to go. You got to follow your heart. Otherwise you compromise you get cynical. The main question that people asked here, which will cover this.

It'll just in 10 minutes so that you can be ready for the prayer meeting is how do you? What what are your tips for corporate prayer? We want more prayer in our church. We're no model of anything. You'll be in a prayer meeting tonight, and we'll call on God and we'll do our best.

But I I I think we have a lot of room for improvement. I don't think we're praying. I'm praying and all of us are praying the way maybe we need to to get secure more of God's blessing. But let's just talk about corporate prayer.

The church was born in a corporate prayer meeting. Is that agreed upon say amen? Acts chapter 2 no teaching no worship. No instruments. They might have been singing but the place where they were praying was shaken and and.

The church was born. When the first persecution came on the church with Peter and John being arrested in Acts 4. Acts 3 and 4 they immediately went back to a prayer meeting. Where they all lifted their voices out loud.

Like our brother encouraged us as I have since we've begun. We are they all lifted their voices together in Acts 4 and they all prayed that God would thwart this persecution. They didn't ask God to stop the persecution.

They just said God give us the boldness that we won't as Franklin Graham said back up. Jesus cleansed the temple and said it had become polluted and prostituted. Because he said my house shall be called a house of what?

Prayer okay, I got a letter from a Baptist pastor email years ago. Who had his church split because he tried to start a prayer meeting? He read my book fresh wind fresh fire was convicted that his church was prayerless.

And went to the Board of Deacons and said we're gonna start a prayer meeting. They called it innovating and not being loyal to the tradition of whatever his group was and it split the church and 40 walked out because he was having a prayer meeting.

Prayer as Evidence of Spiritual Life

Maybe Warren Wearsby is right. Maybe half the people in our churches are in a lot of churches are not born again. Because if you're born again, you know, I was holding Levi before Levi is alive. He's a baby.

He has instincts. He wants to eat. He wants to move he breathes. Why. Because he's alive. There's vital signs and instincts you have if you're alive. If you're not alive those things are not present in you.

It's always seemed strange to me again. I don't want to be legalistic about the whole thing. But someone stopped me the other day and said, you know. Your meetings go two hours long and by the end the choir sings this that and I used to go to a church an hour.

And ten minutes or whatever an hour. Now there are other people who come and visit us and say to us I would go to your church. But boy where I came from we had church brother three hours and a half four hours.

We would Jericho March around the church and whatever. So your church is too dead. Well, everyone has to find out where they're comfortable. Everyone has to find no, that's what the person said and that's their view.

They have a right to their view. But it is strange to me this that someone has trouble with a two-hour meeting when they rent their movies. Or they watch an NFL game. Do they usually last less than two hours and that's strange.

That's an instinct to me that I've been puzzled by. Right if we're interested in something whether it's a movie or a hobby or sports or whatever. The time is not a factor. But then when it would come to things of God times becomes a factor and yet we're gonna be in heaven one day.

With nothing but Jesus and his presence. So that does some soul-searching for pastors who face that have I brought my people into religion or into a relationship with Jesus Christ. Do they have fellowship with the Lord and didn't know the beauty?

I mean pastor pastor Claude Spoke for a good length and then we prayed for a long time after that. I wasn't tired. Were you were you bored anyone bored here by anything that happened this morning? No.

Why because we have an instinct we love God we want to be in his presence so. So a couple things here. Let me just say the practical things on the top and then just one foundational thing, which I don't want to be controversial.