Debate Announcement, Korean Baptist, Allen on the Wooing Spirit

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:29

Well greens welcome to the dividing line Bad news here at the start.

00:35

I just saw this this morning Spurgeon's College announces closure after 169 years of service

00:48

The a living vital faith is struggling a good bit in the

00:54

United Kingdom these days and You know Hundred and sixty nine years

01:02

That's It's an amazing long time Founded in 1856 by Charles Haddon Spurgeon the college has faithfully served for hundred six nine years training thousands of men and women for Christian mission ministry and leadership in the contemporary world and but they

01:20

Can't keep the doors open have the funding to do it while at the same time in the same country

01:31

Bishop Cherry Van has been elected as archbishop of the church in Wales becoming the first woman an

01:40

LGBTQ plus cleric appointed lead any of Britain's Anglican churches while the broader international

01:48

Anglican Communion has had openly gay bishops before most notably Gene Robinson in the

01:53

United States Van will be the first lesbian to serve as archbishop globally so a

02:04

Sound institution closes its doors due to lack of financial support and meanwhile

02:11

You've got this Well The dialogue we're gonna be having

02:21

I read my dialogue partners book yesterday. It's not a long book

02:28

He would be very excited about her being appointed in this way our LGBTQ siblings is what he refers to them as and So that obviously takes us into discussion of what scripture is and What it isn't really from his perspective and that is a consistent revelation from God but You know,

02:54

I I remember 15 20 years ago, we commented on a

03:01

Anglican cleric that the church refused to remove when he said he basically came out and said that he was an atheist and It's Unfortunately large institutions like that their death throes frequently extend over many generations and That's certainly what we are seeing there as the apostasy continues and and accelerates

03:34

I'm not gonna make any comments about you know, there's a reason we don't do advertising on the dividing line and therefore we

03:44

Do not recommend any dating services educational institutions That don't exist

03:51

Anything like that at all. We don't have to worry about things like that It's not that there aren't some people

03:59

I would like to advertise for It's just gets really sticky and so yeah, we don't it's

04:08

Some people that well, you know, what if there's somebody you really think about a great product I know I know and I I do think of people who have some great products out there

04:18

And you can make some money for them, I know but we've just never done it that way and The fact the matter is rich and I are way too old to start doing hitting new

04:28

Who wants to anything new I mean that's That's for young people to do.

04:36

Oh Well, you know, that's true with the arthritis in my fingers working in a tire store in Alaska.

04:44

Yeah Well, Alaska period with the arthritis in my fingers that would be you know,

04:49

I've actually been doing some weightlifting recently it's been 20 years since I did that seriously and I Enjoy it on one level but man the rest of the day.

05:01

It's just sort of like Is this really worth it Okay, I'll keep trying

05:09

Because I have a bunch of weightlifters in my family now and they remember when that was me

05:14

I mean you look back at some of those late 1990s early 2000 videos and everybody called me

05:22

Jesse Ventura, so most people don't think about that now because they haven't gone back and looked at that stuff, but I did get pretty big but When everybody in your family dies of heart stuff, that's probably not the best direction to go long term

05:40

Anyway, uh, let's go ahead and do this because it's and then we can dive back into some of this material in David Allen's book but It I Don't I'm not sure why it is but most of the weirdest stuff that I see on social media.

06:01

I Either it gets sent to me in a link. Oh Wait, wait me but just put that one right there for a second.

06:10

I want to say something about something I said in the last program because there was some people it completely misunderstood it or They did understand it, but they don't understand how to do apologetics.

06:22

Um, I made some comments About stuff going on within apologetics for Islam and One of the things

06:33

I said was okay. Jay Smith has really come out strongly for the mythicist position

06:44

It's not that Mythicism is anything new in other words The mythicist position is when someone has come to conclusion that Muhammad didn't exist that Muhammad Is a is a fictional historical character created

07:04

Uh up to a hundred years after probably normally this round year 700 so 70 years after the claims the standard

07:18

Islamic narrative sin SIN the stand of standard Islamic narrative

07:23

Muhammad dies in 632 and Then for a hundred years you have the century of Islamic expansion until that has finally checked the battle tours 732

07:35

Charles Martel anyway So the mythicist position is that really

07:45

This idea of a actual historical character by the name of Muhammad Develops, you know 70 to 100 years later

07:54

Um the stories about him begin to develop and and things like that well

08:02

Jay Smith has not always been a mythicist He has always

08:08

From time I've known him. Anyways, I I first met him What was that about 07 08 somewhere in that time frame very nice man, and I'm not trying to oppose him or anything

08:22

I'm just simply I'm doing what I've always done and That is in my very first debate with Shabir Ali at Biola University.

08:31

What I say We have to use equal scales Inconsistency is a sign of a failed argument and we have to use equal scales.

08:40

We cannot use one set of standards in Evaluating our own historical information and another set of standards in evaluating

08:49

Islam Now we can recognize there's a difference Islam is 600 years younger chronologically speaking and so I think you you can ask for some level of Greater historical evidence though.

09:06

It arises out of a part of the world. That is significantly less Friendly to the preservation of historical records shall we say

09:20

I mean Rome and the Roman Empire Highly literate

09:29

His historians and Culture and stuff like that Yeah, there's there's culture and things like that in certain parts of the

09:40

Arabian Peninsula, but certainly not the level that you have in in the ancient world in Rome but still

09:49

Point is we need to use We can't use techniques to attack the other side that could be equally used to attack us as well and So all

10:01

I did on last program was I said, I'm I'm not following some of this, you know, there's some back -and -forth

10:10

Raymond Ibrahim has Done a couple videos relatively short barely 11 12 minutes at most

10:17

I think In comparison, you know two hour long videos from from Jay But I have questions

10:29

That I would love to ask Jay directly and I and I may contact him and and and do this though Timing isn't good

10:41

Because I Have a debate coming up and Did that actually actually got nailed down only yesterday so we haven't actually talked about it in the program.

10:49

Oh, okay. Um, so On the 11th of September In Tullahoma at Jeffrey Rice's church

11:03

We are going to be doing a a debate. In fact, I posted it here.

11:08

So let me just Scroll down and and find it here Did it did it did it?

11:16

Well, there was There's Dale Tuggy congratulating me on my 200th anniversary 200th debate, which will be with him.

11:26

Okay, so September 11th 6 p .m. Covenant Reformed Baptist Church 1605 East Lincoln Street, Tullahoma, Tennessee Debate thesis

11:36

John one is not Trinitarian now Everybody's gone.

11:41

You don't have a negative thesis David all Dr. Tuggy was attempting to do here is

11:49

James is always having to take the positive. I think it's Fair that the other side should have to take the positive

11:54

So, I mean if you don't like the negative then just turn it into positive John one is

11:59

Unitarian I mean, that's the opposite of that Given the two people debating you either can have a

12:05

Unitarian or Trinitarian there There aren't any Mormons showing up so no one's gonna he's not gonna be presenting the idea of polytheistic or something like that and so I just appreciate

12:17

Dale's willingness to take the take the positive at least

12:22

The affirmation part in this but anyways, I'll be debating. Dr. Dale Tuggy This will be our second debate our first debate was last year in Houston on is

12:33

Jesus Yahweh and I Did post some things to social media about why

12:41

I feel like this is a very important debate It is not going to be a knockdown drag out.

12:47

Ooh Gotcha type of a situation That's not the type of person

12:53

Dale is first of all I have very Honestly, he knows this very honestly and straightforwardly said listening to Dale Tuggy is like listening to an insurance salesman.

13:03

He's a philosopher He's not the most passionate speaker on the planet and so That's just the way it is

13:11

I would be surprised if he would dispute that and I think he just sort of turns around that. Yeah. Well, you're just a preacher so Go from there.

13:18

Anyway, the topic I've had a lot of people say oh, wow.

13:24

This is a you don't even have to study for that one. Blah blah blah blah. I'm like No The vast majority of evangelicals have never heard a

13:35

Solid Unitarians arguments in regards to prologue of John specifically

13:40

John 1 1 through 18 and Since we sort of live in our own echo chamber and they certainly live in a much smaller echo chamber

13:52

There's a sense in which I'm in a disadvantage because all

13:57

Dale's got to do is show up With lots and lots of Slides like you will

14:03

I would just like to point out to him that You do that. You're really debating for something other than the audience that night.

14:11

You're debating for an audience later on Because no one's gonna follow all that that night read all the stuff on the screen, but The debate will

14:23

If you've never heard a Unitarian argue against the prologue well As long as he shows up and doesn't drool on himself then he wins because you don't think there is another side.

14:34

Well there is It's sort of like when dealing with homosexuality and Romans 1

14:40

People just read Romans 1 they've only heard it interpreted one way and someone like Brownson comes along and says

14:46

Oh, that's actually stoicism. And therefore the backgrounds this and they're like Who knew

14:51

Wow and people are blown away as a result So again my reason for doing debates is to produce

15:03

Material that we relevant long after I'm gone and so this would be this is a very very important subject

15:10

We've sort of touched on once before but the Unitarians like Unitarians most the time in my experience try to distance themselves from Jehovah's Witnesses who are also

15:21

Unitarians But Jehovah's Witness version of Unitarianism is

15:28

Peculiar has its own oddities to it and a lot of folks don't like being tagged with that because of all the historical stuff and 1914 and you know blood transfusions and all that kind of stuff so we did do some of this

15:47

I Don't think That we're really gonna be I don't

15:52

I would be surprised. I'm gonna I've got Hours and hours of Dale stuff to be reading and listening to over the next couple of days

16:01

That I had gotten weeks and weeks ago months ago when I wanted to do this debate

16:09

First thought of it But I've put on hold because I'm doing everything else And so we found out where the debate was going on so the next month could be very very busy for me but I don't think that the primary argument is going to be even touching on the actual translation of Kaithaia St.

16:29

Halagos In John 1 1 I think it's gonna focus upon more contextual background issues so it will not be a simple debate to follow

16:42

It will be the kind of debate that you might want to get a transcript of and then spend a fair amount of time digging into At a later point in time, but again the point is value over over time is what we're looking at having there and so The voice behind the

17:02

The glass wants to add something to this. I just to be fair in I spoke with dr

17:08

Tuggy a couple of times yesterday, and I brought up He kind of chuckled.

17:14

I brought up the number 100 slides, and he's like it look It was just a number

17:21

I was using as an example He probably doesn't realize no he would there be no reason to realize what happened in Tullahoma a couple years ago

17:32

Yeah, when I made that other guy that did the impersonation of the

17:37

FedEx commercials and And Had I don't remember how many

17:45

I've got the number somewhere massive amount of slides and with tiny little print and he's just he's whipping through these things and the whole audience is just sitting there like What it's you

17:59

We can't even listen to you that fast let alone process what in the world you're saying and it was just it was just so disrespectful to the audience that It's like you're not really here for us.

18:12

Are you I think that I think the thinking there is is that People are gonna be hitting the spacebar a lot

18:21

To be fair to him You know he we went through the debate format a little bit.

18:28

I think he has his Mind very much right as to how it's supposed to work and his chief concern was in the video that they're going to produce

18:39

That the slides that he does put up are clear and easy to read which is going to be a reason why

18:46

I he told me that the church will not be live -streaming this really and The reason for it is is the slides because I guess the last time it was just impossible to see slides

19:00

In the live stream so unless unless you're running the computer feed to the projector

19:08

Through the computer in the back that's also doing the live -streaming. No you can't read it

19:13

Well, there's that and well you can read mine because I use the big enough font Yeah but there's also the timing of it all and the

19:21

Following the slides the movement of the slides all that stuff And I did promise him that when we do our version

19:27

That I would do his slides justice to make sure that they were presented properly and not a big fuzzy thing on the wall

19:34

Anyway, why did I put that in there? Okay. All right. So anyway, that is 6 6 p .m.

19:44

September 11th Covenant Reformed Baptist Church 1605 East Lincoln Street, Tullahoma, Tennessee This is gonna be part of the whole conference could be going on Which we have jokingly called and I hope we don't get sued by g3 but the

19:58

Harbor Freight g3 conference Jeremiah Nortier, I believe we'll be doing the moderating and Keith Foskey is going to be there.

20:07

I'm not sure if Keith's going to do a comedic introduction To the debate though, that wouldn't surprise me and like I said, this should be number 200 and I'm hoping for I said we might have a special protein infused

20:26

Texas sheet cake to celebrate But probably not well, maybe somebody will be nice to you, but probably not so so When I when

20:36

I say protein infused, I don't mean bacon Okay for some people that's all protein infusion is my my wife made some protein brownies yesterday

20:48

So again, you know, she's big into the lifting Summer my daughter's big in the lifting not as much right now because my wife has her bag packed sitting in the kitchen with the other bags of treats and stuff to take because when she gets the call she's the kids have moved about an hour and a half from where we live now and Summers do any moment so sometime

21:17

Probably over this next weekend into early next week a little Kuiper is going to arrive and Kelly will be heading off to stay with the grandkids and and Do stuff like that.

21:30

So anyways, she made me some Protein brownies, so at least you can you can eat a brownie.

21:37

It tastes like a brownie It's as good as a brownie, but you're also getting about 10 grams of protein While you're at it, so maybe

21:44

I love Texas sheet cake. I don't know if any of you have ever seen a Texas It's that real thin Wide real thin it's disgustingly

21:53

Rich in Sugar, it's just basically a real thin layer of cake with about an equal layer of frosting on top of it

22:02

But it's sort of not sure how to describe the frosting. It's sort of harder Anyways, it's it's good stuff.

22:08

So I'm sure you can make a protein infused Texas sheet cake. And so Maybe if someone in in,

22:17

Tullahoma Take, you know have some mercy on me They'll make me a protein infused or those make a

22:25

Texas sheet cake and tell me it's protein infused. How would I ever know? Still end up getting fat on it.

22:33

Anyways, so there you go. Alright, so I was sorry about doing all that there

22:41

But I want to make that announcement and it also instructed me that I Had written up the announcement yesterday, but I had not actually done that so back to the

22:52

Islam J Smith thing because it was what I was mentioning was the debates why we do debates the standards we use debate

23:00

We have to use equal equal stairs equal measures. And that's what made me all sudden think hey You didn't you didn't make the announcement about the they'll tell you debate coming up next month number the big number two zero zero

23:13

Um Now you see if I was like a lot of folks we would have some big fundraiser about this and we'd be sending stuff out with a big 200 on it and all the rest that kind of stuff and That's why we don't do that So back to us all

23:31

I'm saying is I heard there are questions I want to ask Jay he was

23:38

Fundamentally discounting for example the historical relevance of any of the

23:45

Hadith and It seemed to me and That's what

23:52

I need to ask questions about it seemed to me that what he was saying is the manuscripts that Western scholars used

24:03

To make the standardized Translations of Bukhari or Muslim or Jamiat Termini or whatever the the various Sunni Hadith collections

24:19

Were very late and far removed from the time frame of Bukhari's life and I was like well

24:32

Okay, but if you know anything about Remember the big controversy a few months ago when we were

24:40

I was talking about we were talking about the Ignatian the recension of Ignatius's letters and the different versions the longer version and the shorter version and different translations and things like that One of the things we pointed out was you know the earliest manuscripts we have for a lot of this stuff

25:00

Sometimes a thousand years later one of my favorite Writings the early church is the epistle to Diognetus But we don't even have the one manuscript that had it any longer was destroyed in the

25:11

Prussian War in the 1800s When the library was in was bombed as part of the war shelled with artillery actually and so it's sort of like Does that mean that's that's no lie because at one point

25:29

Jay actually Referred to Bukhari as a lie But what does that mean?

25:35

You'd have to you'd have to prove that You'd have to engage in fair textual study historical textual study of the manuscript tradition behind Bukhari now

25:52

I That's a perfectly valid thing to challenge Islam to do Given the centrality of the

25:59

Hadith collections in the formulation of Sharia law You should it shouldn't just be a discussion of how you determine whether something is sahih or or not

26:16

Part and parcel should be textual critical studies and Islam is way behind on that.

26:23

There is no Critical edition critical text of the Quran and The people pushing for a text text a critical text of the

26:32

Quran are not Muslims Well, there might be Western Muslims, but it's primarily orientalists

26:41

Christians or Not necessarily non -christians, but just Western scholars in the field whatever it might be the push

26:50

Should come from the Muslim people themselves Same with us

26:56

We should what have I said for decades. I want to know what John wrote. I want to know what

27:02

Paul wrote and You know, if you remember my debate with Adnan Rashid, you know

27:09

Hey, if it's good enough for Uthman, it's good enough for me. Well, you know, but That that's not that's not how you do textual critical studies in a fair way

27:19

And so I'm just simply saying if you're you know, if you're gonna develop this entire

27:28

System of saying that the historical materials are lies that there it's fiction it was made up You have to use the same standards and When he he did sort of seemed to recognize that and he started mentioning early references to Jesus and I Just have to admit

27:54

There's this one slide. I could put it up. I didn't take a screenshot of it, but there's one slide where it's comparing the early references to Jesus in comparison to Hamid and some of the references that he put up there are highly disputable a couple of them just had to do with earthquakes or eclipses in the early fourth decade of the first century had nothing to do with Jesus and yeah later

28:26

Christian writers interpreted it that way and tied it together with period of darkness and the earth trembling and stuff like that, but Those writers didn't do that So I was like You know, these are very susceptible to disputation

28:47

You need to be really careful with your utilization of such things. So I wasn't trying to take a position.

28:54

I'm simply saying if we're if we're gonna be consistent got to use the same standards and Right now

29:03

I'm going I'm not I'm not seeing how I've got a lot of questions about this stuff and We talked about this on the program back back when

29:15

I think it was Robert Spencer and David Wood did a debate and David defended the historical existence of Muhammad.

29:25

I think Robert Spencer was denying it. That's my recollection. I could be wrong We talked about this very same kind of stuff, you know

29:33

What's the origin of this massive body of tradition? Not even even Islam says 99 % of its bogus

29:41

Even even Islam says that but There is still a substantial body of material here where you have crossover between Muslim and Bukhari and things like that and But they're not it's not the kind of it just doesn't look

30:01

Manufactured to me I would I would have a hard time proving that Unfortunately, some people

30:07

Christian people just like some Muslims the other direction Have the idea that hey as long as it's negative to them.

30:15

I'll accept anything You know, I've seen people, you know, there are people who do that with Mormonism You know, that was that was one of the problems with God makers to Was you started getting into the hey, you know?

30:30

Maybe Joseph Smith said this maybe not but now we're gonna accept it because we know Joseph is a bad guy

30:36

Anyways, so yeah, Joseph Smith said every stupid thing ever attributed to him. You can't go there You have to know you can't

30:43

You can't do that. So we have to be careful about stuff like that. So anyways, so there's the comment about that comment about the debate and I've already gone through half the program and so That takes me back to a

31:02

Fellow It You run into interesting people.

31:12

Okay, you really you really do There's a young fella and I do believe he exists because there's a

31:21

YouTube link you go to the YouTube link and There are some rather poorly produced, you know, just a young kid young Korean kid

31:29

Staying in front of a web sit in front of a webcam. Okay And I really think he exists.

31:38

I don't think he's AI or anything like that and He uses the name

31:43

Korean Baptist at Korean underscore Baptist and I'd never heard him before But someone

31:55

Linked me to this or something because I wasn't tagged in it and what it was was a comment someone

32:04

Kuiper belt productions long ago Had put together this meme with two more missionaries knocking on a door.

32:15

Then the next scene is me and Jeff Recording something that apology of studios on Mormonism and It says come and knock on our door.

32:26

We've been waiting for you and Again, you have to be a boomer to even know what that was from right?

32:33

I mean the vast majority people They'll just be straight over their heads from a 1970s rather raunchy sitcom well raunchy back then in comparison today, it would be squeaky clean, but Back then it was

32:50

I know really anyway, so he's commenting on that.

32:55

He's commenting on Jeff and I Talking these more missionaries and so here's what he says.

33:04

He says both Calvinists and Mormons believe in work salvation Calvinists believe in the backdoor work salvation through the perseverance of the

33:15

Saints and many Calvinists also believe in the front -loading work Salvation by believing in this repent of your sins to be saved heresy, just like the

33:23

Mormons do Mormons don't believe in the Trinity and many Calvinists also don't believe in the

33:30

Trinity by believing in a fake version of the Trinity Where it teaches this lie that calls

33:35

Jesus the only Son of God God the

33:41

Father has many many adopted Christian sons So Jesus isn't the only

33:47

Son of God Okay, that's straight -up Christological heresy here. So Like Calvinists like to use corrupted fake

33:55

Bible versions. Oh, here we go corrupted fake Bible versions like the ESV Does he know all the

34:03

King James translators for Calvinists? That teach this lie instead of using the

34:08

King James Bible God the Father does not view Calvinists as Christians And has amazing insights into God's views since they have not obeyed the gospel

34:21

I found that Oh obeyed Did you did you think that about that before you wrote it?

34:28

This is that Have not obeyed the gospel Okay There is not a single

34:35

Christian in this picture So it's two more missionaries top and then Jeff and I both so we're not

34:41

Christian Both James White and Jeff Durbin and those more missionaries are cursed heretics and False prophets corrupt trees and they can't be saved from hellfire because of the

34:51

Galatians 1 8 through 9 curse applying to them The Lord Jesus Christ will one day say

34:57

I never knew you depart from me ye that work iniquity to all four of them before casting them in the lake of fire and then he quotes

35:05

Jude 1 13 and So I I just reposted it and said you run into some really wild stuff and he did

35:22

Respond to that and I'll see if I've got time to look at it. I spend more time with Alan but What this illustrates is

35:34

How error Compounds itself, you know it, you know interest can compound itself over time and you you make more money.

35:43

Well error Compounds itself as well here. You've got a young man Clearly not balanced

35:52

Clearly not in a situation where there are either cooler heads around him that can cool him down or He's only paying attention to Yeah, the worst the worst and The resultant incoherence

36:14

Is shocking people people, you know, how can someone you know, the guy's reading his

36:19

Bible But how can he just there's no balance here. This is this is just nutty stuff and then it results in dishonesty just straight -up dishonesty and Misrepresentation of history illogic incoherence and You know, we see that in people, you know years ago.

36:45

Remember I had to point out all sorts of Fundamental logical problems with Dave Hunt.

36:52

I mean half the time I was responding to him in our book was just where he was

36:59

Being inconsistent and incoherent in his argumentation He was making categorical errors and just all sorts of stuff like that we see that but social media tends to concentrate the incoherence

37:16

So Calvinists and Mormons do not believe in work salvation even the Mormons You know, you'd have to actually know something about Mormonism to recognize the difference between salvation and exaltation and people like this

37:28

They don't they don't care to actually know what the Mormons believe or accurately represent what the Mormons believe or anything like that Certainly what

37:36

Calvinists believe either but The vast chasm that separates

37:44

Reformed theology and Mormonism when it comes to the doctrine of God doctor of man's etiology all the catechism every word what eternal life means and In Mormonism is eternal lives the ability to have children via procreation as a

38:03

God as part of the power of God the procreation and priesthood, I mean

38:09

The chasm is massive and so to be able to leap over that chasm requires an awesome amount of ignorance and a complete and utter disregard for anything called logic

38:26

Honesty truthfulness anything like that But King James only anti Calvinist fundamentalists don't care about any of that stuff they really don't

38:40

So Calvinists believe in the backdoor work salvation is the perseverance of the Saints This is a young man has no idea of perseverance.

38:46

He says right on his channel. I believe in OSAS once saved always saved Okay I doubt you have a meaningful foundation for that if you detest reformed theology because that is any kind of meaningful idea of the permanence of salvation is based upon the perfection of the work of Christ and If you by your free will got yourself into it

39:14

Then you by your free will can get yourself back out unless you actually believe by free will you can get in and then God says that that's it no more free will and You can't get back out again another incoherent position but it's very common for these folks to believe that Perseverance of the

39:32

Saints means you're working for your salvation and he says that later on he says that to somebody else that that Perseverance of the

39:38

Saints means that you produce good works and you don't sin so since Christians sin Then obviously Calvinists aren't actually

39:44

Christians and stuff like that. It's pretty wild stuff, but that's not what perseverance of the

39:49

Saints means and and if and if you were to be if he was to even be Slightly concerned about truthfulness.

39:56

He would want to understand that It doesn't perseverance of the Saints simply means that because of everything else

40:04

God's sovereignty told of gravity Unconditional election particular redemption irresistible grace the result of that is

40:12

Christ will not lose any of his sheep and so the Saints will persevere because that's

40:18

God's purpose in their life and That's the power of the Spirit in their life and that's the

40:27

Obedience of the son of the father the father's will for the son is he lose none of those that has been given to him

40:35

So this is all about God. It's not about us the any perseverance that the

40:41

Saints have is The result of God's work within them and God's accomplishing his own purpose

40:47

This is we're gonna see this in a moment. We get in back into dr. Allen's book. Is it? We are we consistently begin with God Provisionists synergists this fellow consistently begin with man they have to if if they don't start with the sovereign decree of God and the ultimate glorification of God and all things

41:16

Where else are you gonna start if you've gotten rid of that which King James translators believed in probably just for the fun of it

41:26

Then what else do you have? But then and many Calvinists also believe in the front -loading work salvation by believing this repent of your sins

41:35

We saved heresy just like the Mormons do again ignorance of Mormonism massively so and then

41:44

Repent of your sin. Oh, wow. What a This of course is the utter foolishness of non lordship salvation of the free grace position and you know

42:00

If just somewhere in the Bible there was a clear direct statement

42:05

About the necessity of repentance. Oh Jesus said that over and over again, but that was that was then this is now maybe he's a

42:13

Big dispensationalist maybe a mid -axe dispensationalist who knows

42:19

But yeah That's not work salvation either But again, the the errors are just so many

42:30

Mormons don't believe in the Trinity because they're polytheists obviously and many Calvinists also don't believe in Trinity by believing in a fake version of Trinity where it teaches this lie that calls

42:39

Jesus as The only Son of God now, I don't know where that one's coming from Because this guy's now just saying

42:47

I am a full Christological heretic I've I've reject any

42:56

Recognizable definition of the Trinity of the Sun as the Sun Yeah, I don't know.

43:02

He doesn't expand on it and I'm not interested in I don't have the time to Go digging through his videos to find out what on earth he's babbling about But monogamous who he is the unique Sun Straight up right there and he you know, he he here's the problem

43:22

You know, he's the King James accurately translates monogamous We asked as the only begotten

43:28

Son of God in the King James version of the Bible But he just doesn't understand it He's evidently stuck just the

43:36

English not with the original language. So he doesn't get it God the Father has many adopted Christians sons, so Jesus isn't the only

43:43

Son of God Someone who really struggles with category errors here You mean they you mean you're the same kind the

43:53

Son of God is Jesus Okay. Well, all right, and then of course he gets in the King James stuff

43:59

ESV corrupted fake Bible versions blah blah blah blah and God the Father does not view

44:04

Calvinists as Christians since they have not obeyed the gospel and again obeyed the gospel

44:09

I thought you Said you didn't have to repent and believe but obeying the gospel is is that?

44:18

Believing exactly like you believe that's how a lot of these folks do that. This stuff's all over out there and Yeah It it attracts it attracts a certain kind of person that wants an

44:38

Absolute certainty that's actually based upon fear of any kind of uncertainty and That's that's what this this guy is all about sadly and Yeah, that was

44:56

Yeah, cuz he uh He said he did respond to that. Also this blind guide who is known as James White called this post a royal mess

45:05

But didn't come up with any reputation. I suspected because somewhere deep down he knows that I'm right

45:10

And he's wrong. You can't really disprove. My post is my post is based on the scriptures unlike the reformed theology

45:17

It has no basis on the Word of God. What does this guy read a reformed theology nothing? So you have to just keep pumping yourself up, you know

45:26

Shooting at the other side because you know, you don't you're at you're actually the one that doesn't have any substance and you fear

45:37

What what if there is something to what these other people are saying you can't even you can't bring yourself to think about it That's what's it that's what fundamentalism has done to many many many people

45:51

Someone just picked it posted a picture of me with a 200 debates t -shirt on So yeah,

45:58

Eli Ayala Dr. James White is approaching turn in public debates an incredible consummate in the realm of politics and ministry

46:04

What's your favorite James White debate or a moment share in the comments? Well, that'll get some interesting comments

46:12

There there might be some Encouraging things to read there, but it probably would just be a really good way for me to know who to block

46:22

Today, you know like my block list hasn't expanded a whole lot recently So I imagine there will be some comments in there

46:32

All right So Someone posted in one of our chat channels a

46:49

Jeopardy question Something you can describe in detail that almost everyone agrees with until you say its name the answer

46:57

Calvin is Joe it's

47:02

Joe. There's no two ways about it That's how it goes. All right, so back to Dr.

47:11

Allen's book. Um, I apologize again Day for yesterday when we did the program

47:19

I had said on social media I'm gonna comment on a particular quote and never got to I spent too much time on the quote that I did get

47:28

There's a lot of stuff that we can spend a lot of time on in this book my goal eventually is to I'm gonna go ahead and Deal with its attempt to deal with Romans 8 because that's what we've done in the past and we could put together hours

47:47

Of What the other side cannot put together so we can we can present to you hours in this studio or in the big studio of us putting

48:02

Dr. Allen's work right up there on the screen And opening the Bible and going here's what it actually says and here's why what dr.

48:10

Allen says cannot be true You won't do that Um, he assiduously seeks to avoid even

48:20

Mentioning me so that people might not you know, they might go look and find out.

48:25

Hey, wait a minute They said stuff that you didn't tell us they said so In the book we have

48:39

This section Um page 52

48:47

Boy, that is small font. My goodness page 52. Well, that's what says page 52.

48:53

I'm not not sure if that's actually Anyway, two other major related issues need to be addressed under the heading of irresistible grace

49:03

The first has to do and I have this up full size on the screen So the first has to do with the

49:10

Calvinist claim that free will Exercised by faith in Christ leads to pride

49:17

The second has to do with the question of whether regeneration precedes faith now, I want to point out

49:25

That no matter how often we correct the provisionists synergists, etc on this

49:34

They won't hear us the issue

49:39

Um The first has to do with the Calvinist claim that free will exercised by faith in Christ leads to pride

49:50

Actually what it does is it leads to the inevitable conclusion that the primary and determinative factor in the salvation of any individual is

50:04

Not found in God. It is found in humanity and That Inevitably what that means is if you join this

50:17

With the idea that God is saving is seeking to save all men equally

50:26

Then inevitably that means that those that accept are in some way shape or form

50:35

More spiritually sensitive More pliable and hence in some way better than those who do not if everything else is equal if God's trying to save everybody equally and These people are saved and these people are not

50:56

Then the only answer why these are saved and these are not is in those individuals

51:04

Not in God It's not in the gospel, it's not in the spirit it is these people

51:13

Are better than these people Because they're more spiritually sensitive. They hear they hear it.

51:19

They respond. They have fewer Obstructions in the way whatever it might be

51:28

That's issue. It's not that leads to pride I Mean I could

51:35

I could make that argument down the road, but that's that's not what we're focusing on so Calvinists frequently make the following argument to support their claim that free will leads to pride in the part of someone who believes in Christ when compared to someone who does not

51:49

If I freely believe my neighbor freely does not does not this imply that somehow I am nobler than him.

51:56

Well Do I use the term nobler? but more sensitive Less depraved less sinful

52:06

More liable to be used of God. What terminology do you want to use?

52:12

Smarter you could you could say smarter. Yeah Am I not somehow wiser more humble more virtuous than my neighbor who rejects the gospel?

52:20

Consider Terence Teason's expression of this argument and I did appreciate this was well as well put here's what he said from numerous conversations

52:31

With Arminians and Wesleyans. I know this perception is difficult for them to understand

52:38

It is argued that believers cannot boast because they simply accept a free gift. I Acknowledge the significance of grace in most synergistic theologies, but the fact remains that the critical difference between those who believe and Those who do not is found in the believers

52:59

Rather than in God's gracious work Since God enables all equally

53:06

The outcome is determined by the people who must respond to God's initiative. I fail to see

53:11

Why believers should not be commended for having responded to grace? However, small their contribution has been it was the decisive factor.

53:21

So there's the issue What is the decisive factor? Is it man or God?

53:30

This is the divide Always has been always will be Was it man or God?

53:38

so In seeking to respond to that very well stated form of the argument that we've all seen before I've certainly made it

53:49

Before unpacking Teason's statement. I almost want to respond by saying pot meet kettle

53:56

See my postscript below for thoughts on reformed pride. Well It's not the issue

54:02

Calvinist think they have boxed in all non Calvinist with an impregnable argument that confirms their notion of divine determination determinism and salvation no

54:13

No These guys So hate the decree of God and so hate a sovereign

54:20

God who's accomplishing his will in time. It's all I can see they see it in everything and They can't call it what we call it they can't call it

54:32

God's sovereign decree God's functioning as king in his universe. They can't use the biblical language

54:38

God doing whatever he pleases in heaven and earth They can't even come up to the

54:43

Pagans level of Nebuchadnezzar who can resist as well who can? Hoard his hand to say why do you do this?

54:52

No, they've got to use their notion of divine determinism and salvation Okay This is not an impregnable argument it is an observation

55:08

That there needs to be an explanation from the other side as to why?

55:17

Certain people are Better than other people they're better They they is it not better to obey

55:28

God than to remain in rebellion against God Isn't it isn't that the case?

55:38

Because what you're saying is You know amongst the Reformed we say all the time

55:44

When we get to heaven what we're gonna see is that the only thing that distinguishes the mass of condemned humanity and the mass of saved humanity and I As a good post

55:56

Miller, I don't think that's an equal mass But you know

56:01

Certain eschatologies were that's what you got, but anyways The only thing that separates them is a five -letter word called grace

56:11

That's the only difference it's not me It's not being me being choice meats

56:17

I mean that there wouldn't we wouldn't have even had the choice meats discussion if this was not a valid issue and so Anyway, however, if free will exists

56:40

Then this is an invalid criticism. Well, there you go There you go

56:50

The the only way you can establish that and by the way Since he likes to quote from Ken Wilson all the time and accepts whatever

56:57

Ken Wilson has to say without criticism whatsoever and clearly Clearly has no clue has not taken the time

57:08

To listen to any of the in -depth refutations especially

57:16

Wilson's understanding of Manichaeism and his Stupid duped if you don't what that is duped d -u -p -i -e deep it

57:24

Wilson came up with it part of his dissertation Again there's no

57:32

I see no evidence in this book when he cites from Wilson that he is aware of the fact that there are some massive drive a truck through the argument holes in Wilson's work on Augustine He just accepts it.

57:47

It's foundational this book. He just accepts it as a given it the whole book is written on The foundation that everything that Wilson said was correct

57:58

Uh So I just point out free will is fundamental to Greek philosophy

58:04

So David Allen is plainly the utter slave of Greek philosophy, right?

58:12

if you can say well Augustine was Manichaean and I'm gonna understand man man need to have taught this and and then in Gus's later life

58:21

Oh, yeah, there's all sorts of Bible verses say the same thing, but we're not gonna worry about that He got it from Manichaeism.

58:26

Then evidently everything that David Allen says came from Greek philosophy, right? Plato Aristotle depends on you know, who you know, we can find something somewhere

58:35

Lots about free will and human autonomy all over the place and here's the difference

58:41

I can find you all sorts of biblical verses about God's utter sovereignty in the affairs of men read the 33rd

58:47

Psalm for crying out Loud it states it right there Man plans

58:53

God frustrates his plans God plans. Nobody frustrates God's plan. It's right there. It is a straightforward statement

58:59

You don't have a single statement in all scripture Asserting the autonomous free will of man nowhere free will appears free will offerings that is

59:11

Those that arise out of a desire to give something in the sacrificial system But what do you have in Scripture man is not able man is not able man is not able man is not able it's over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, but we just ignore all this and we have our

59:25

Greek idol a Free will and it's just however a free will exists.

59:31

This is an invalid criticism When people do things they should not do they are blameworthy when they do what they should do they are praiseworthy and God himself says that he is pleased with them and Here's the here's the quote that I didn't get to you last time.

59:49

It's already three o 'clock And anyway Hey, we've covered a lot of ground today.

59:56

We've covered a lot of different topics, but we tend to do that anyway given quote given the equal wooing of the

01:00:08

Holy Spirit Who convicts the world of sin righteousness and judgment as scripture says?

01:00:15

No one would ever be saved if God had not Initiated the process through his enabling grace

01:00:25

The fact that some reject and some accept is the only way things could be in a world where libertarian freedom is true

01:00:32

What is his starting point? Libertarian freedom is true. That is a philosophical presupposition from Greek philosophy.

01:00:40

It is not from the Bible and It's a waste of my time to say I'll walk into his classroom and debate that with nothing but a

01:00:47

Greek New Testament Because he won't do it He won't do it for that one.

01:00:53

I would need a Hebrew Old Testament or maybe just bring the Septuagint whatever He won't do it

01:00:58

Can't do it knows he can't do it But first of all

01:01:05

Given the equal wooing of the Holy Spirit. Well, I would love to see the biblical references for that Where the bill where do you get the equal?

01:01:18

Wooing of the Holy Word Where does that come from? man's traditions

01:01:26

Man's traditions, it's you won't find that in the Bible When we talk about the power of the

01:01:31

Holy Spirit remember Remember when Paul's exhorting Christians and living the Christian life you live by the power of the

01:01:38

Holy Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead Not who wooed you and who's wooing everybody equally

01:01:47

He's wooing the people that are going straight to hell and he knows they're going straight up, but he's wooing them

01:01:54

Wooing them Where do you find the Holy Spirit? Woo?

01:02:02

Did the Holy Spirit? Woo the hearts of stone and the hearts of flesh. I Had a conversation with a guy on on on Twitter yesterday.

01:02:11

I said, so do you believe that a heart of stone? Can will itself to become a heart of flesh?

01:02:17

Yes, I do Yes, that's exactly you You Calvinist you're all wrong. But yes,

01:02:22

I was heart of stone can will itself to become a heart of flesh. There you go.

01:02:28

Um This and Anteason had said this if God's trying to save everybody equal here it is.

01:02:35

He admits. Yep. God's trying to save everybody equally. He's failing large majority, but he's trying and That's the important part

01:02:45

Not whether he accomplishes anything. It's he's trying This is not the power of the

01:02:51

Spirit in regeneration Fundamentally the corpse has to tell the spirit.

01:02:59

Okay, you can make me alive now that's their position and They don't they don't seem to see that doesn't make a lick of sense and I can't open their eyes to see it.

01:03:14

I Can't I can I can go here look It says right there

01:03:25

Best I can do Given the equal wooing and now where do they get this?

01:03:31

Look at the language who convicts the world of sin righteousness and judgment as Scripture says So this is the guy who's constantly talking about Logical errors that allegedly, you know, well just because it says that That that those for whom

01:03:54

Jesus intercedes and we saved that doesn't mean that he doesn't Die for people who will not be saved and this is you know excluded middle and he loves talking about this like that But he clearly doesn't have any idea what those things mean because then you make statements like that So think about it

01:04:18

So if the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin righteousness and judgment First of all is convicting and wooing the same thing

01:04:30

He's using them as if they mean the same thing but wooing and convicting are not the same thing if Conviction of sin is brought in this world as there been conviction of sin not unto salvation of course

01:04:52

God has restrained evil men Over and over again. How many how many

01:04:58

Roman soldiers? Did God restrain? from killing the immediate

01:05:09

Relatives of Mary before she could be born right because I mean unless you're gonna believe that God has no

01:05:20

Decree and he's he didn't intend that Mary would be the mother of Jesus and stuff like, you know

01:05:26

If you're a sort of an open theist like that, then we we don't need to be having these conversations But for someone who professes to be an

01:05:36

Orthodox Evangelical of some kind Are there not times in the

01:05:44

Holy Spirit Even Convict someone to the point where they destroy themselves because there's so much under conviction, but they

01:05:53

They don't repent. I mean Spirit of God is active in many many ways but to assume that the

01:06:03

Spirit of God convicts that that's wooing and To say well, no as long as Spirit of God convicts.

01:06:11

He convicts everybody equally baloney Baloney Every believer fully understands that when you come under conviction for your sin

01:06:23

Every Christian understands there was a conviction of sin that made you cry out to Christ That does not result in the same thing for someone who goes to their grave in rejection of Jesus There's different kinds of conviction

01:06:40

So This language he's using Does not substantiate his point But notice that aside

01:06:51

No one would ever be saved if God had not initiated the process through his enabling grace

01:07:02

Hmm That sounds like the old prevenient grace argument, right?

01:07:08

That's what we're talking about here prevenient grace um so that's given to everybody equally and That's how you say off see no one would ever be saved

01:07:22

I'm not sure That latent flowers believes that he's made comments before about if man is responsible able to respond then you don't need

01:07:40

Prevenient grace and If prevenient grace is just simply a peanut butter grace that everybody gets equally then what's its relevance?

01:07:51

I mean, it doesn't actually result in it and so to say well, no, it's absolutely necessary It doesn't save anybody

01:08:01

But what it only saves those that enable it to you're making our point if God's trying to save everyone equally and And you get saved but your neighbor does not

01:08:15

God put put 100 joules of Grace toward the salvation of that person and 100 joules of grace toward your salvation.

01:08:25

You get saved that person doesn't You haven't changed anything You haven't answered the question

01:08:32

The issue is still you the fact that some reject and some accept

01:08:40

It's just the only way things could be in a world where libertarian freedom is true it has to be that way because of free will

01:08:52

Our great Central theological affirmation not the glory of God Not the glory of God.

01:08:59

It's not God's self -revelation man Man in his free will

01:09:08

I've said this for years and all they do is keep proving the point Again, and again and again we start with God they start with man.

01:09:18

It's right there It's on your screen right now Look at that sentence the fact that some reject and some accept

01:09:25

It's the only way things could be in a world where libertarian freedom is true right there

01:09:34

I've rarely seen such a and I don't think he meant to give us this But what he's saying is

01:09:43

Yeah, I can't I can't give you any biblical argumentation here, but it just has to be this way so that Libertarian freedom not

01:09:54

God's libertarian freedom. No, no, no Man's libertarian freedom is

01:10:01

Determinative it decides all this So all that stuff about God's decision and time passed well

01:10:07

No, that's he just decided that if you become a believer, you're gonna be adopted in the family We're gonna see that and we work through Romans 8 all of God's decisions

01:10:19

Are made in light of what man does that is a massively different system

01:10:28

Use a lot of the same language Man, we're starting completely different places Yes, sir, you you're reading this and what just keeps going through my mind over and over and over is

01:10:39

Romans 916 How do you make this case? Understanding that it doesn't depend on the man who wills or the man who runs

01:10:51

But on God who has mercy well, you need to understand something and That is that one of the criticisms that Dr.

01:11:03

Allen via Ken Wilson makes is Here in Romans 912

01:11:12

Well 911 for though the twins were not yet born and not done anything good or bad So the purpose of God according to his choice would stand according to his choice on our choice

01:11:21

Not because of works because of him who calls he was said to her the older shall serve the younger Just as written

01:11:27

Jacob. I love these I hate now. That's the context of 916. That's what that's what yeah That's up.

01:11:33

Sure was being said that mercy mercy hardening so on so forth What's amazing and we'll read this but what is amazing is

01:11:44

That now he says is 912. It's probably because just a different verse divisions as to where 911 912 go

01:11:53

But what it says not because of works because of him who calls He argues in this book

01:12:02

That works In The LSB in verse 11

01:12:10

X Aragon right here OOC X Aragon Allah act to Calhoun toss

01:12:20

So not of works but from the one calling That this

01:12:28

Are the works of Moses the law of Moses and Says this was one of the primary

01:12:39

Exegetical errors of Augusta now

01:12:45

I hesitate since I didn't read that portion to you To go any farther, but that is absurd on a level that truly made me go if this man turned that paper into me

01:12:56

Teaching in my seminary he would fail There was no law of Moses in this context did you forget that part

01:13:10

Have you been reading so much new perspective on Paul that you forgot that part and the contrast in the language is

01:13:19

X Aragon versus act to Calhoun top not of works

01:13:26

That is the activity Notice no, I mean the context itself look at what it talks about Had not done anything good or bad

01:13:38

It's talking about human activity In contrast to the purpose of God and then he repeats that I mean

01:13:49

Any kind of meaningful exegetical study That we use to prove the deity of Christ the resurrection or anything else

01:13:59

Would tell you this but when it comes this one thing The great idol of man's will all of a sudden all that stuff goes out the door

01:14:08

You just forget about it It's just gone and it's all blamed on Augustine I'm sorry a

01:14:19

Second -year Greek student reading this gets this You don't have to have read Augustine. It's right there in front of you.

01:14:29

So Well, and as I read it as not being able to do what you just did

01:14:35

Um, I just go okay, but Paul it's like Paul anticipated the argument Because if he simply said the one who runs he's doing human activity he's working he's acting, you know, there's active

01:14:47

Oh, yeah, this is this is back in 12. But yeah in 916 Paul's conclusion Right.

01:14:53

All right totally refutes the argument because he includes the idea. It's not the one who wills

01:14:59

Yeah, it's not the one willing the entire argument that was just read through is

01:15:05

Well, if you're willing Yep, come and you will if you're willing to sell on top and it's not

01:15:12

Not because the one who wills the one who wills can't and the funny thing is there are some people going

01:15:19

This is just about nations. Then that can't be about the Law of Moses. Can it you guys keep trying?

01:15:27

You guys will pull together every type of argument can from every you want to try to get it get out of Romans 9

01:15:32

There ain't any getting out of Romans 9 Therefore it is not the one willing There it is, there's there's your free will

01:15:42

Who to tell on top is not the one willing neither to trek on top the one running the one?

01:15:49

engaged in activity What is it a lot to? La own tasks they you the mercying

01:15:57

God and That's what you don't believe Don't sit there and oh,

01:16:05

I believe no you don't if all you've got is a woo -woo spirit

01:16:12

That can save nobody you don't believe this You don't believe it

01:16:19

That's why you write entire really bad books Trying to continue to convince other people not to believe it and you can write all of them you want

01:16:28

It's not gonna change what the text says It's not the one willing it's not the one willing

01:16:35

It is the Mercying God, I know it says the

01:16:43

God who has mercy again Mercying is a verb in Greek. So that's why

01:16:49

I'm translating You just don't believe it because that That is the statement

01:16:57

That is an adverse of Adversative use of Allah. It's the opposite.

01:17:04

It's not these things but this And in your system, it's these things not that You're 180 degrees backwards

01:17:14

What do you do about it? Ain't gonna do that. I'm gonna write another book

01:17:22

Put out of the webcast Do some stuff like that. Yeah, that's what I'll do

01:17:28

All right. Well, hey Hey did I'm wondering

01:17:36

I'm wondering uh They may not be done an apology really because they never the thing is they never get started on time

01:17:43

It drives me nuts even when I'm on it's like we start I know

01:17:52

I know we didn't talk about it I I know I know But he's gonna make it.

01:17:58

I think he's gonna make a debate announcement on apology radio and I am so tempted

01:18:05

Because I know what it is Let me put it this way

01:18:10

Spoiler. Oh, it's spoiler. Yeah, we could we could spoil it. No, I know what it is and I'm excited about it

01:18:19

I Can't wait to see it But it's gonna be a very different kind of debate than the one we announced today very very different on every level and I will admit right now without hesitation

01:18:37

The debate the Jeff's gonna be doing It's actually gonna be a two -on -two debate so it's

01:18:44

Jeff and a guy who's Really smart.

01:18:50

Okay. I don't know him But we've worked with him for a long long time.

01:18:56

He's brilliant. Yes Glad he's on our side. Let's put it that way

01:19:01

Jeff and this guy Versus two Christian brothers that I love dearly.

01:19:09

I love dearly so That means it's gonna be a very different kind of debate than between a

01:19:17

Trinitarian Unitarian Technical issues the background. What's the Logos? What's the what's the philosophical background of Logos?

01:19:24

Is this is this drawing from Greek philosophy at this point or is Memra? Devar the background from the

01:19:30

Old Testament and you know, so and and the topic is not

01:19:40

Fundamentally an issue of biblical exegesis that topic for their debate is going to be

01:19:50

Application because everybody in the room believes the same things and if we believe the same things then what do we do?

01:19:56

so that's that's a very different kind of debate and I'm really really looking forward to it happening

01:20:05

Itself And I'll tell you right now be a whole lot more interesting mine, it doesn't mean that it's more important And You're not gonna get into nearly as much biblical background exegesis the text and stuff like that but that's you know debates have different applications and different uses and and You know,

01:20:30

I'll never forget. I'll just go ahead and say this and we'll sign off I've told the story

01:20:38

When you've seen Jeff and I Debate together twice both up in at the

01:20:44

University of Utah in Salt Lake City The second debate I remember we had just gotten the

01:20:50

Jayco That was one of the first trips I took with the Jayco and That was before the roof ripped off one of the many times

01:21:02

Because it was defective anyways Snowstorm was coming in and Was that 22

01:21:13

Had to been 22 2022 I Think it was October of 22

01:21:19

Because I think it'd been three years because it was October of 19 that we did the antifreeze debate anyway

01:21:28

Jeff comes in There's all sorts of travel issues With flights because there's a basically a blizzard coming and I'm informed that day of the debate

01:21:41

Jeff's mom's dying She's in the hospital and she's not doing well and He's trying to find a flight home to be with her one last time and to share the gospel with her because she's not a believer and So I'm sitting here going man,

01:22:09

I would be so massively Distracted if I were him you watch that debate.

01:22:24

He was razor -sharp Just in fact,

01:22:30

I let him do more than I did part of the reason was the sound of the room was horrible and He was closer to the other guys.

01:22:38

He could simply hear better. I hadn't got my hearing aids. No, so I forgot him today again Yeah, and I ain't got my hearing aids yet He just Took these guys apart

01:22:49

Razor -sharp. I was so proud of him and He managed to get a flight

01:22:56

He managed to get home and the Lord Blessed his faithfulness because he led his mom to the

01:23:04

Lord before she passed away She had a confidence in the forgiveness of Christ Before she passed away and So don't

01:23:19

Don't take the ninja Too lightly when it comes to a debate now the people that are taken on are sharp

01:23:27

They're sharp brothers It really are but Yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be great.

01:23:36

It's it's gonna be well worth it really really really is so anyway Like I said, they haven't

01:23:42

I don't know if they've actually announced it yet, so I can't say anything about it, but obviously next week it will be a known deal and maybe

01:23:51

I can comment on it then but By then and you all know it too and you may not care about what my comments

01:23:59

All right. Okay. We preached a little bit today, but Man when when you see people, you know if David Allen and I Did he think about this as we close if David Allen and I Debated Dale Tuggy and another

01:24:19

Unitarian So we're in complete agreement He would have to use the same exegetical methodologies.

01:24:28

I do to demonstrate the deity of Christ the very exegetical methodologies he abandons when he denies

01:24:37

God's sovereignty and Promotes pagan idol of human food. That's what tradition does we all have them

01:24:46

I do too Sometimes they're the hardest things to recognize But that's okay.