June 14, 2019 Show with Tempe Brown on “God’s Word Never Returns to Him Empty: The Testimony of a Sinner Saved by Grace Through the Labors of the Gideons

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 14th day of June 2019.

I was invited not long ago to a Gideon's dinner, and during that dinner, they aired a video of the testimony of a woman that I am now interviewing today.

I was so blown away by her testimony in many ways, I said to myself,

I have got to get this woman on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I asked Harry, the individual running the

Gideon's meeting here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, for details, and I finally was able to hook up with Tempe and thank

God she accepted my invitation, and that was probably over a month ago, and we've been both very eagerly anticipating today.

She is an author, a singer, a songwriter, a public speaker, and she is going to be addressing

God's Word Never Returns to Him Empty, The Testimony of a Sinner Saved by Grace Through the

Labors of the Gideons, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first on to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Tempe Brown.

Hello, glad to be here with you. It's a thrill to have you on the show, Tempe. First of all, for our listeners who may be unfamiliar with the

Gideons, can you give us a brief description of who the Gideons are? Well, most people remember the

Gideons as those gentlemen that put Bibles in the hotel rooms, but they place

Bibles all over the world, not just in hotel rooms, but in the military, in colleges, in schools.

Unfortunately, they're more open in other countries to be placed in the schools these days than they are here, but they are still doing it, and it's wonderful.

In hospitals, doctor's offices, you name it. They're placing one million

Bibles every four and a half days around the world. Wow. Yes, and if you spend any time traveling and you stay at a hotel, if you open up the nightstand drawer next to you, you will most certainly find a

Gideons Bible there. I'd be shocked if you didn't. And, of course, unfortunately, for our friends that run the

Marriott hotels, you'll also find a Book of Mormon in there, because the Marriott chain is owned by Mormons, but at least there is typically a

Gideon Bible in there as well. And we're going to actually be hearing today how one of those

Bibles brought our guest to salvation in Jesus Christ.

Before I do that, I want to play at least one song by our guest to start the ball rolling.

She was a jazz singer as a livelihood before she came to Christ.

I'm not saying that she doesn't sing jazz now, but she was a professional jazz singer in nightclubs and cocktail lounges, etc.,

for quite a number of years, and she is truly gifted with a magnificent voice. The first song that I'm going to play by Tempe Brown is actually taken from a video at a

Christian women's club. Unfortunately, this first song was cut short by whoever videotaped it, but since it is one of my favorite songs, one of my favorite secular songs,

I wanted to play this anyway, even though it was cut short. You'll also hear the tinkling of glasses and the common background noise that you'll hear at a banquet or luncheon or dinner, etc.

So please try to overlook that background noise. But here is just to give you a taste of the gift of Tempe Brown singing

At Last. At last

By the light of what's gone on My lonely days are over And life is just a song

Oh yeah At last

The skies above are blue My heart is wrapped in clover

But Since I met you

I finally found a dream I could cling to A dream

I could call my own Well, unfortunately, it was cut short there.

Whoever cut that video short should be arrested, I think, and at least serve some jail time for stopping that beautiful performance, at least on film.

Tempe, I want you to begin your personal story going all the way back to your earliest memories of childhood.

I want you to give our listeners some kind of an idea what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in and what circumstances eventually were used by our

Sovereign Lord providentially to draw you to Himself and save you. Let's start with your childhood. Well, I went to church, but we were taught the power of positive thinking more than we were taught the gospel.

We were the most positive sinners you ever saw in your life. Norman Vincent Peale no doubt had something to do with that.

Absolutely, but there was some scripture that was read and, you know, the

Word of God will never return unto Him void, so even though it was not exactly the gospel as we would understand what it means to be born again, but still there were some good life lessons in there and so on.

But it planted a seed in me and my family and my brothers to know that church is important and that it was a good thing to do.

So later on in life, we moved from Oklahoma City to Lawton, Oklahoma, and we joined the same kind of church, and it was boring.

So I kind of just slipped out of church when I was about 16 and tried the church across the street and, again, didn't hear the

Word. But my friends went there, so that was good, but I still felt it was necessary and important to go to church.

But then after a while, it was just, you know, it didn't happen. And then later on in life, after marriage and divorce and a lot of struggles and so on,

I was searching and I was hungry and, you know, there's a big empty spot in us when we don't have

Jesus. And we try to cram all kinds of things in there to make ourselves feel important, feel fulfilled, feel something.

And what we don't know is the only thing that fits and stays there is Christ. Amen. So while I was on the road with my band,

I would find those Bibles and I would open them.

And, of course, we all know that every time you open the Bible, the author shows up. That has a lot to do with that Scripture verse.

God's Word never returns to them empty. That's true. And, you know,

I was on the road with my own band. Can you imagine the Holy Spirit on the road with a rock band? But you know something?

He was there. Aren't you glad He doesn't care who He hangs out with? So as I read, certain

Scriptures really spoke to me, but the one that really grabbed me was in John 3.

And, of course, most people think, oh, yes, good old John 3, 16. Well, go a little bit further. John 3, 19.

And I always felt condemned all my life, didn't know why. But the Word kind of burned off the pages.

This is the condemnation, that light has come into the world, but men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.

Amen. And I knew at that moment that I was in darkness, did not have that light, Jesus Christ.

And, boy, that put me on my knees in a Holiday Inn in Owensboro, Kentucky, bawling my eyes out and crying out to God.

And He saved me right then and there, Chris. Praise God. That was the missing piece to that puzzle of life, and so grateful.

Got up off my knees, a brand -new little baby Christian, and have a clue as to what to do next. Well, if we could even go back further to when you recognized you had a gift for singing, how you began to perform in a professional manner.

I know that there are even a lot of professional singers, especially those who are from the

South, who began even before they were saved, but nonetheless they were still singing in a choir in church or something.

I can't even count the number of times that I've heard that, especially from our Southern brothers and sisters who entered into a musical career and then later were saved.

But tell us something about how people began to notice that you had a gift in that area and how you began to explore pursuing that as a career and so on.

Well, the funny part is nobody knew I could sing because I never sang for anybody except when

I was in, I think, about the ninth grade or so.

I was taking music and they asked me, all of the students had to sing something.

And so she says, pick a song. Well, the only one I really knew and was familiar with was,

When You Walk Through The Storm, Hold Your Head Up High. Well, it was not in my key, so when

I sang it, I'm an alto and it was written for soprano, so I sounded like I was killing a cat. And so the teacher basically said, well, you'll never be a singer.

But somehow I didn't believe her. I was too young to understand what keys were and to be able to tell her, well, you know, it's not in my key.

I didn't know how to say that. I didn't know what that meant. But I did know that I sounded fine in the bathroom at home.

So I just didn't believe her, which is good because a lot of times when an adult will tell you something negative, children believe it no matter what.

Right. Because it's an adult and one in authority, a teacher, you know. But I just didn't believe her.

So then later on as my marriage soured,

I realized that I was going to be on my own to raise three children. And so I got to the place where it was time to leave and get away and went back to my hometown of Oklahoma City.

We lived in Florida at the time. Went back to Oklahoma City and I got a job illustrating children's reading books, bringing home $65 a week, and that's not going to get it, you know, even back in those days, 1969.

So I knew I was going to have to work a second job, but I wasn't sure

I could do it professionally, but I could keep up with those gals on the radio. So I auditioned with a little jazz group and I knew all the jazz songs because I was a jazz fan, had the albums, knew all the words.

So I auditioned and much to my shock, they hired me. And that was the first time anybody ever heard me sing or thought

I could sing and thought I was good at it. So it was kind of a shock. Wow.

And so tell us something about, you know, the kind of places you performed in and so on and the kinds of people that you met.

Did you ever meet any very well -known jazz recording artists and all that kind of thing? I did.

I sang at jazz clubs and supper clubs. They were nice.

They were the ones that, you know, had picked Alaska and that sort of thing. And I sang with some very, very good jazz musicians and had a following, had fans that followed me.

I stayed in one club, Der Dutchman in Oklahoma City, for five years, which is kind of unheard of.

Wow. And then I went to the Shandell. I was up there. That was the place to be with an orchestra at this time instead of just a little group and wore long evening gowns and had my hair all done up and, you know, all that stuff.

And I was up there three and a half years. I say up there. It was on the top floor of the United Founders Tower building in Oklahoma City that overlooked the whole city, and the outward part of it revolved, and you could eat dinner.

It took an hour to go all the way around. You could see all the lights of the city. And that was kind of fun. But in the meantime, my kids were suffering because they had to work two jobs, and it's hard to raise a family when you're never there, you know?

And women didn't get paid much in those days, so I was in that two -job trap that a lot of women are in back, you know, when you're trying to raise a family by yourself.

So anyway, then later on, I... Oh, well, you asked if I had met some.

Yes. I got to sit in with Duke Ellington one time. Wow. And that was kind of fun, and he thought

I was good. And I met several, because when

I moved to Tulsa, I was the house singer at the Copa Hilton, and it was like a

Vegas showroom. It was tiered, and it had the big booths and a big stage, and I was the house singer, and it had big names come through that would either be a one -nighter or a two -weeker, depending on who they were and how long they could stay.

Plus the fact that that was kind of the hometown for Roy Clark and all the gang on Hee Haw, and they used to come in all the time.

So, yes, I met a lot of big names. And I forgot to tell you that my day job,

I was kind of kicked into a... It's funny, I had one year of high school journalism and wound up editor of a magazine.

It was called Oklahoma City This Week. So I did that for five years, still working the two jobs, and got to meet all manner of big shots that way as well, because I interviewed everybody from Carol Channing to Liza Minnelli to, you know...

Wow. From ballet to burlesque, I met them all, you know. But back to my music career, after a while,

I formed... My girls got in trouble, and they wound up in a detention center, which was not good.

I sent my son back to his dad, who had remarried in Florida, thinking it would be a short amount of time until I got those girls straightened out.

Well, they didn't get straightened out, and that's where they wound up. And they served their time and got out, and kind of went their own separate ways.

And by then, I had put a show band together, and I looked just like Cher in those days. I mean, I had the long hair.

I was skinny then. I had the whole deal, and hit the road with my band. And I was on the road and played...

I had a show band. I actually put a show together. And that's when

I was on the road and started looking at those Gideon Bibles, because I literally lived in hotel rooms.

Years ago, I briefly met Carol Channing at Sardi's in Manhattan.

And I can remember I walked... As soon as I walked through the door with my late wife, Carol Channing was sitting at this table all by herself that was facing the door.

And as soon as I walked in... Not that she knew me. She was just being friendly. She said in her very stereotypical, well -known

Carol Channing voice, Well, hello! With a big beaming smile. And also,

John Ritter, the late John Ritter, was sitting at a table near mine with his family.

I didn't speak with him, because he looked like he was angry about something. But that's interesting.

Did you perform at all with some of the more well -known jazz artists and so on?

I got to sit in with Duke Ellington. Oh yeah, that's right. That's right, I'm sorry. Yeah.

And being a person involved in that kind of a career, you unfortunately very often hear of some tragic things.

Sometimes we presume the worst about people involved in that kind of a livelihood.

For instance, I remember as a teenager, being a heavy metal rock fan,

I was shocked that Ted Nugent never did drugs, because he was such a wild man on stage.

In fact, I had also learned that Frank Zappa never took drugs and so on, which many of us who were habitual pot smokers and drunkards were surprised by that.

But did anything like that accompany your life when you were involved in that lifestyle, that career?

I don't want you to reveal anything that you don't want to reveal yourself, but I was just curious, because we are not always correct when we make those assumptions that that is involved in that person's life, a nightclub singer and so on.

Well, one thing about the nightclub singer is everybody wants to buy the singer a drink. And you get off a set, and there's nine of them lined up there for you.

And I worked in nice places that brought... They were supper clubs.

You could bring your family in and have dinner in this sort of thing. And as I said,

I had a lot of fans, and they would invite me to sit with them, and there would always be... get the lady whatever she wants, you know.

So I did drink, but I could hold it. And I do not have an addictive personality, so it never got a hold of me, thank

God. Like it does some people. I just don't have an addictive personality. I smoked, but I could put it down any time

I wanted to. In fact, I did several times. But I smoked because everybody else was smoking. And I was breathing in second -hand smoke anyway in those nightclubs, so...

But, no, I never got on drugs. Never... I think it's because my dad, who was the district attorney in Lawton, Oklahoma, put the fear of God in my brothers and I about drugs.

Well, praise God for that. Absolutely did not mess with those. But, yes,

I drank, but like I said, it didn't get a hold of me. And... But the thing was that sometimes people get the idea that the singer is also property, that anybody can handle her or him.

Right. And that didn't go very well with me. And so one evening

I was singing and this fella came up and just touched me where he shouldn't have it and the dance floor was full and I guess he thought he could just do that and then disappear.

Well, I ran out and grabbed him, threw him on the parking lot, and beat the fuck out of him.

Wow, I guess you were a strong woman as well, unless he was just very inebriated or weak.

Well, a little of both, I think. A little of both. But I just, you know, that's a misnomer as well.

Some people think that that's just okay to do that. Well, it's not. And I'm sure cocktail waitresses got the same thing, too.

Other than that, it was kind of a fun thing to do. But it was fun because I love to sing and I had great musicians backing me.

It didn't make any difference where I sang. I had great musicians working with me and they were very kind.

They were very nice people. They would give you the shirt off their back. If you needed to move, they'd help you move. I mean, they were just wonderful, wonderful people.

I didn't meet up with some really ornery people until I got on the road with my band.

And some club owners could be pretty ornery. And so one,

I remember my band and I were playing at a club in Houston and the club owners were a married couple and they were fighting all the time.

And so they kind of took things out on us and that wasn't much fun. And then when we were in South Padre Island, Texas, we were there for a couple of weeks, millions of sharks or thousands of sharks menaced, in fact, this was the headline, thousands of sharks menace

Padre Shores or something like that. Well, when there's sharks there, the tourists disappear.

They just don't want to be there. They'd rather go somewhere where they can get in the ocean. And when there's not much business, they always blame the band.

Even there was a shark infestation, they still blame you? They blamed us, yeah. So things like that happened.

But let me tell you something, at that point, the hound of heaven, the Holy Spirit was after me because my two brothers had gotten saved.

And they were praying for me and put me on the holy hit list. And boy, he was after me.

And I knew it. I didn't know how to say Holy Spirit. I didn't know that I should call him that, but I knew that God was on my case.

And I finally gave in, as I said. But it was amazing how you'd meet up with all these different kinds of people.

I had many, many good friends, really good friends and fans. But sometimes people think, oh, that sounds like fun.

Well, not so much. But God used that to bring me to my knees.

I mean, if everything was hunky -dory and everything was fine and wonderful, then I probably wouldn't have given him the time of day.

But my goodness. I'll tell you something. Praying for your lost loved ones, it works.

My two brothers prayed for me. My brother Jim was a plant manager with Union Carbide, and he was up in Boundbrook, New Jersey, and I think

Basking Ridge was where the plant was. And he got saved and started going to this big

Bible study, and he told me later that this one lady just took me on as a project. Pray for my evil sister, you know.

And so I do believe that she might be one of the first faces that I see when I get to Heaven, you know, because she's already gone to Heaven, I found out.

But, you know, prayer brings, just unleashes the

Holy Spirit to go after these people. So I want to encourage anybody who's got lost loved ones, especially if you have a child that once loved

Jesus, but has backslidden or gotten away from the Lord, I just want to remind you that He is the author and finisher of our faith.

Wow, you know, you just recalled to my mind a friend of mine, Mary Madonna.

And if you are listening, Mary, here's a shout -out to you. But she began a ministry years ago, a prayer ministry called

Stand in the Gap, and she began that ministry because her son, her one and only son, was raised in a

Christian home and he went to Christian college. Something happened while he was away at college and he returned home.

I don't know how quickly when he returned home, but he became an enemy of Jesus Christ and an enemy of the

Bible and all things religious. He is a professing atheist. And so Mary began this ministry,

Stand in the Gap. And I would love perhaps for the two of you to meet sometime. But just a shout -out to my friend,

Mary, for that wonderful ministry that she has where she diligently prays. She has a group of folks praying for a long list of prodigals who were once professing to be

Christian who have abandoned the faith, and they pray for each and every one of those on their list, which is growing continually every month.

So we're going to go to our first station break, and we're going to go to that station break, first of all, with a song from Tempe Brown's Heavenly Jazz album.

This is the song All Things You Are. So please be patient with us as we go to a commercial break immediately following the song.

And please send in your questions to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

And please give us, as always, at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Tempe Brown after these messages from our sponsors. You are the promised kiss of springtime

That makes the lonely winter seem long

You are the breathless hush of evening

That trembles on the brink of a lovely song

You are the angel globe that lights the star

The dearest things that I know are what you are

Someday my happy arms will hold you

And someday I'll know that moment divine

When all the things you are are mine

You are the angel globe that lights the star

The dearest things that I know are what you are

Someday my happy arms will hold you

And someday I'll know that moment divine

When all the things you are are mine

And someday, some lovely day,

I will know that moment divine

When all the things you are are mine

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Hello, my name is James Renahan, and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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.nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

.nyc. Have a great day. Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with a little bit more than an hour to go is

Tempe Brown. She is a singer, songwriter, an author, a public speaker, and we are addressing her testimony,

God's Word Never Returns to Him Empty, The Testimony of a Sinner Saved by Grace Through the

Labors of the Gideons. If you would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com And please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnzen at gmail .com We do have a listener in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, Susan Margaret, who wants to know,

Tempe, when you approach lost people with the Gospel, if they happen to be someone with an extraordinary gift, such as the gift for singing, as you have, do you ever use the fact that God has given that person that gift as a way of entering into a conversation about the state of their soul in the

Gospel? Because we know that even the lost who have gifts, have those gifts because of the mercy of God.

Well, that's a very interesting question, and I don't recall ever being approached that way, but I do believe that all gifts come from God, all good gifts come from God, and certainly why not let them know that the only reason we were born is to glorify

God in our bodies, 1 Corinthians 6, 19 and 20, and so why not use that gift to give back to Him, the one that gave it to them, and I think that's very important.

I feel like I didn't waste all that time, but I spent that gift on other people enjoying it, but now

I can glorify God through my gift, and I believe that all gifts that He gives to us, we should glorify

Him in it. Great, and we also have a question from Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who says,

I know that Christians have very strong opinions about music and disagree rather passionately at times, sometimes it tragically even breaks up churches, but I am of the opinion that secular music is a blessing to even

Christians, as long as the lyrical content is not offensive to God, if it is not promoting things that are sins, such as promiscuous sex, and drunkenness, and rivalry, and all those kinds of things that are an offense to God.

I think that a love song to one's spouse, or any other kind of a song that is clean and not offensive to God is appropriate even for Christians in their private lives to enjoy, and through which to be entertained.

What is your guest's opinion on the fact that there are Christians who want to ban all secular music from the lives of Christians?

Well, I think that's a little bit overkill, kind of like the left, you know, if they don't like it, they don't want you to have it either.

So it's somebody's opinion. I mean, I did a seminar many, many years ago on the truth about rock and roll.

My son drove the bus for Mylon LeFevre and Broken Heart for five years, and I was around those folks quite a bit, if anybody remembers who they are.

And I know he was a Christian rock band, and they were a

Christian rock group. And I saw young people come to Christ through that ministry.

So nobody can tell me that it's evil or anything like that. As far as secular music is concerned,

I did an album called Heavenly Jazz, in fact, you just played one of the pieces off of it, because they're beautiful songs.

I remember when they actually wrote songs that you could understand the words. And they were very nice songs and beautiful gifts to your loved one, if it's for, as he mentioned, for your wife or for whatever.

But some people, I feel like that's sort of a religious spirit. You know, they just...

But, you know, I mean, I can't speak for everybody, because there's some people that's just their preference.

And I think everybody's got a preference. I agree. I don't think that they should be songs that glorify promiscuity or anything like that.

I mean, that's a no -brainer for a Christian. You know, we shouldn't have to pigeonhole these things quite so much as just figure it out.

I mean, if the words are fancy, leave it alone. It doesn't belong in the church. Right.

I personally believe that there is a lot more liberty for Christians in their private lives for music that is wholesome, even if it's secular, to entertain them.

I do have perhaps more of a strict view of things that go on in a worship service. As I've said recently, there are

Christian rap songs that I enjoy, especially when you can understand the lyrics and when they are biblically based.

And there are some, believe it or not, there are some quite profound Christian rap artists or hip -hop artists who really know the

Bible very well and they get very deep on occasion. And of course there are some horrible Christian rap artists as well.

But as much as I might enjoy hearing that music on occasion in my own private time of wanting to be entertained or wanting to be blessed by something,

I don't want that in the worship service because I think that the worship service is just that, a worship service where the congregation should be worshiping together, not necessarily sitting back and to be entertained.

And it doesn't even have to be very worldly music. You can have a church that has their worship services are dominated even by classical performances or something, and I think that that's out of bounds myself.

But that's me. Well, we all have our opinions, and right now I just wish they'd turn it down a little bit.

I think the spirit of Ted Nugent has been released in the church. He coined the phrase if it's too loud you're too old.

In fact, there's a question from a listener who asks something similar to what you just said.

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York who asks, do you think that there is an unfortunate trend in the church where youth rules at any expense, and that expense typically means the older people in the congregation.

It seems that the younger folks and even leaders in the church don't care about what the older people are going through when louder, more raucous music is being performed in a church service.

I see that a lot. I'm in a lot of different churches, and I see that a lot, and I think it's unfortunate because, for one thing, why does it have to be either -or?

Why is it? I've always heard, it's all about the youth, it's all about the youth. Well, I thought we were supposed to take care of the widows and the orphans.

Amen. It should not be either -or, and love does not seek its own way.

And some of these loud things, I know some people that have to sit out in the vestibule during worship.

We should not have to dread worship. It should be something that we all desire to be a part of, and it should be a sweet time rather than holding your hands over your ears.

I've never really understood that, but a friend of mine had an idea, and I think it might be spot on.

A lot of the senior pastors today were yesteryear's youth pastors, and they honestly don't know what to do with older people.

They've only ministered to young people, and so I think there's just a big void there.

Certainly not everywhere, but in some cases, I think that's the truth. They just don't know what to do with older people.

And, you know, I'm older, and I used to have a band. I probably was too loud at one point or another.

I'm probably reading when I'm old. And I do know that it's very uncomfortable.

I have great hearing. I can hear grass grow, and so when the music is too loud, it literally hurts.

It's painful, and I feel sorry for older people who dread worship or just sit out in the vestibule and wait for it to be over.

I think it's sad. As I said, love doesn't seek its own way, and if they absolutely refuse to listen to the older people, they're running them off.

I mean, they're leaving. It's sad. I hear this all of the time all over the place.

It's not in certain sections of the country. It's everywhere. So like I said,

I think the spirit of Ted Nugent has been released into the church if it's too loud or too old, and it's not

Jesus. It's not Jesus, and I know the Bible says to be loud and play on the loud timbrels and all that.

Well, that was written before amplification. That's right. That's a good point.

They didn't have a sounding board to shove those knobs all the way up. I don't get it.

I don't know why it has to be so loud, but that's my opinion, so there you go.

Yeah. Well, I think that a perfect example of what I was saying earlier is seen or heard.

Some of the ads that I play have some heavy metal in the background, but that doesn't mean that I want them in the worship service.

Yeah. But we have to go to our midway break right now, so if you have a question for Tempe Brown, send it on in to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please, as always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And this is a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show because they have to, by FCC regulations, localize their programming content to Lake City, Florida, and so they use this break in the middle of our show to air their own public service announcements and commercials while we air our globally heard commercials.

So while we are airing our own commercials, please take the time to write questions for Tempe Brown and also to write down all of the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them because we depend upon our advertisers to exist.

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So don't go away. God willing, we're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors, so don't go away.

Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

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A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how He shall be worshiped and how

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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That's P -T -L -BibleRebinding .com Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

Christian organizations to remain on the air like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the

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I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, host of a visit to the pastor's study, and I am so thankful to be part of the advertising family right here on Iron Sharpens Iron.

If you live on Long Island or if you're visiting the metropolitan New York area, I invite you to join us for worship at The Haven on Sundays at 4 .30

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p .m., 33 Bayshore Road, Deer Park, New York. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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That's The Life and Times of Spencer Cohn, A Pastor in New York is the title and the subtitle is

The Life and Times of Spencer Cohn by John Thornberry. And of course, to make all things easier, if you call them at 800 -656 -0231 at CBBBS, that's 800 -656 -0231, it'll be much easier for you to get both of those books by verbally telling them on the phone about those offers.

And they only man that phone line, remember, from Monday through Friday 10 a .m. to 4 .30 p .m. Eastern. Before we return to our discussion with Tempe Brown, I just have a couple of announcements to make regarding special events that I want you to attend, if at all possible.

I am going to be heading down, or should I say where would

I be heading? I'd be heading out east and I'd be heading northeast, I guess, to my old stopping grounds,

New York City, to the Foundations Conference, a conference orchestrated and hosted by sermonaudio .com.

This is going to be held in the heart of Manhattan during Christmas season, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th, and what a beautiful time to visit

Manhattan. And I am so looking forward to returning to the Foundations Conference. It's become one of my favorite conferences of all.

The speakers include Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, whose voice you keep hearing every day, promoting

New Covenant Church, NYC, a church in Manhattan that sponsors this show.

Paul Washer, another one of the most powerful preachers alive today. My friend, Rev. Jeff Thomas, who is an extraordinary preacher and writer.

My friend, Rev. Armin Tamasian, who I think is going to be a household name over the next decade.

He is such a powerful and gifted preacher with gifts and abilities far beyond his youth. Keep an eye and ear out for Armin Tamasian and mark my words, he will be globally known within the next decade,

I believe. And the next two preachers, Richard Caldwell Jr. and Andrew Quigley.

I have never heard these two brothers preach, but since Sermon Audio picked them, they must be extraordinary because Sermon Audio is very, very discerning and very rightfully fussy in the people that they promote as a representation of sermonaudio .com.

So, if you want to join me in Manhattan during Christmas season, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th, then go to thefoundationsconference .com

thefoundationsconference .com and all the information that you'll need to register will be there. I strongly urge you to register immediately or very soon because they are going to run out of room before you know it.

They can only hold less than 200 people at this venue in Manhattan. Then, in January, from Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th,

I will be back in Atlanta, Georgia, more specifically College Park, Georgia, at the

Georgia International Convention Center for the G3 Conference 2020. The G3 Conference is a remarkable, phenomenal conference that I have grown to love so much and it has greatly benefited

Iron Trip and Zion Radio. I have an exhibitors booth that I man there every January and there's over 5 ,000 people that come to that conference annually and they are expecting just as many this

January. The theme is Worship Matters and the speakers include

Kosti Hinn, who, believe it or not, Kosti Hinn is the nephew of the worldly known notorious charlatan and heretic,

Benny Hinn and Kosti makes no bones about that. He exposes his

Uncle Benny and those in the Word of Faith movement whenever he can for the charlatans and dangerous heretics that they are.

He is on the roster at the G3 Conference. He is a remarkable speaker as well.

He is a Reformed Baptist pastor now in California and most of his ministry is dedicated to exposing the

Word of Faith heresies. So, mark your calendars for this conference to hear one of the most fascinating speakers that we have in the 21st century,

Kosti Hinn. Also, David Miller. What a phenomenal preacher David Miller is. And I'm sure that many of our listeners, if not most of our listeners, know who

Derek Thomas is. A phenomenal preacher, teacher, and author. My friend,

Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries whom I've known since 1995.

One of my closest friends. Dr. Joel Beakey who I've known nearly as long. Dr. Joel Beakey, the

President of Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Josh Bice, the founder of the

G3 Conference. Also, once again, Stephen J. Lawson and Paul Washer. They will be on the roster at this conference as well.

Dr. Tom Askell, my dear friend of many years who is Executive Director of Founders Ministries.

And also, Voti Baucom, one of the most extraordinary preachers and teachers and writers around today.

If you want to register for the G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com. g3conference .com

And I would strongly urge you, if you have a parachurch ministry or a business where you want to promote whatever it is you're doing to the body of Christ in a successful manner,

I would strongly urge you to register for an exhibitor's booth just like I will be manning at the G3 Conference because they, as I said, they attract crowds of over 5 ,000 people every year.

So it will be well worth your time, money and effort to have an exhibitor's booth there.

But whether you're just attending as a person in the audience or whether you're going to register for an exhibitor's booth, go to g3conference .com.

g3conference .com And especially if you're registering for an exhibitor's booth, do so quickly before they run out of room.

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If you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God.

So please rectify that. I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world. I've already helped quite a number of listeners in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience find churches that they have joined or that they have visited while they're on vacation.

So if you need a church home, please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put

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That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Tempe Brown. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com

chrisarnsen at gmail .com And again, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And Tempe, one of the things I wanted to ask you is when you were going through this period of life before collapsing to your knees and crying out to the

Lord for salvation, what was it that made you believe that there was something very significant, something very important missing in your life that you needed to have occupy your life?

Was it something very tangible? Did you know it was God? Did you know it was Jesus Christ initially?

Or was it just a mysterious emptiness? Well, there was this emptiness and I had a feeling in the back of my mind all along that it was probably

God. Looking back on it now... Tempe, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but something... your voice sounds a little bit muffled.

Can you speak perhaps more clearly into the microphone or whatever you're using? I don't know what happened. Is that better?

Oh, that's much, much better. Thank you. Okay. Okay, sure. But I realized when

I picked up the Word of God, the Bible's place for the Gideon, that that was what was missing.

I knew that it was God, but I didn't know how to get Him into my heart.

I didn't know how to do that. But the Holy Spirit is there to show us.

And I just knew that all I had to do was cry out once I realized that He came not into the world to condemn the world.

I didn't have to feel condemned. That He... He paid the price.

And so I just had not understood that. And when He brought that to my mind and I actually saw a revelation of it and saw that I should have been on that cross and not

Him. He was the innocent one. I was the sinner and that was the big empty spot.

And then when... You know, after I did come to Him and I accepted Him and it came into my heart, after reading the

Scripture, men love darkness rather than light, I went down on the stage...

I was on the road with Ben when I did this and I went down on the stage and the first thing

I said was, how come it's so dark in here? It wasn't any darker than it had always been.

It's just that the light of the world had moved in. And nothing looks the same once He's in there.

You know it. You know it. Nothing looks the same. Cussing starts sounding really bad. I mean, everything changed.

Everything. I was a new creature in Christ. I couldn't have given you all the Christianese.

You know, I didn't speak that yet. But I knew that it was God. I knew something had happened to me.

And I remember saying, Lord, please don't let this just be another high. Don't let it be gone tomorrow.

And it's... That was back in 1977. It's still here. I'm still bouncing off the walls.

You know, something you said resonated with me because I remember when

I was being drawn by the Lord and started attending church services more regularly,

I was still dating a girl. Very lovely girl that I had met at a punk rock club back in the 1980s.

And I can still remember the night, the last night that I entered through the doors of this punk rock club on Long Island when

I was with her at this club. And when I was looking around me, the surroundings never struck me as being weird or unusual before.

But all of a sudden, being in that club, I felt like I was right in the midst of Sodom and Gomorrah.

All the women looked like prostitutes. Many of the men looked like homosexuals.

There was just a very strange looking place that never leaped out at me and made me uncomfortable like it did to this magnitude.

And I told my girlfriend, I said, I'm sorry, I can never come back here again. I feel sick to my stomach.

I don't even want to be in here. And then very soon after, without any kind of argument or horrible fight or conflict, we just very politely broke up with each other.

And I remember I invited her to my baptism and she said, oh, that's sweet, but I have to go to an

Iggy Pop concert that night. So, that was the end of that relationship and I hope that that woman is being drawn by the grace of the

Lord today. I don't know. I don't keep in touch with her. But what you said resonated with me because there was an obvious connection.

There was something that I was involved in regularly that all of a sudden out of nowhere became very dark and evil to me.

Exactly. Yeah. And when you were once again about the emptiness that you were feeling, was this accompanied by depression?

I mean, the Lord calls people in all different places in life.

He calls people who are the most perverse of prostitutes and the most pious of pastors who, even though they may be very religious are lost as lost can be.

But there's all different kinds of conditions and atmospheres that people calls His people out from when

He saves them. And so, I don't know specifically if this emptiness was causing you really severe distress and depression or was it just annoying emptiness?

Tell us more about that. Well, it was an emptiness that, and I think we all,

I know we all have that emptiness when we're separated from our Creator, we're not whole.

So, if Jesus isn't in there, we're not whole. We're empty. And we try to cram all kinds of things in there to make ourselves feel, you know, important or fulfilled or whatever.

It can be anything from country clubs to crack, you know? So, and this is why we, people drink, that's why they do drugs, that's why they're lost, the whole thing, trying to fulfill that empty place.

And, for me, it was, I guess, just trying to make it somehow.

Not that I really wanted to be a star or anything like that. I just wanted to I don't know if I was trying to prove something or what, but nothing felt good.

I had my own band. I thought that'd feel good. It didn't. It was like herding cats, even trying to get them to rehearse.

I mean, it was just not fun. Nothing felt good. The drinking, the, it didn't make any difference what it was.

It wasn't it, you know? I didn't find it. But, when

I did find him, all of that emptiness went away.

It just went away. And, it can be a different thing, maybe, like you said, the priest, pastor, or the lowest of the lowest, but we're all the same and on level ground when it comes to that empty place.

But people who don't have any exposure to the word whatsoever,

I feel sorry for them because at least I was drawn to the word of God because there was,

I remembered some things in there that touched my heart. I remember my dad would insist on reading

Luke 2 before we opened our Christmas presents. And, of course, that's the Christmas story.

that was nostalgic, I thought, that's what was drawing me to it, but it wasn't.

It was God, the Holy Spirit, saying, get in the word, I'll show you something. And, by the way, there's no such thing as a

Gideon Bible. A lot of people think, what is that, a cult or something?

No, it's Bibles placed by the Gideons. There's no such thing as a Gideon Bible, but people call them that, and I understand that, and they do, too, that's cool.

In fact, they're the only entity in the world that wants you to steal their product. Yeah, I believe

I had stolen a couple of Gideon Bibles even before I was a Christian. Well, they think that's okay.

They will replace it. and I ask people when they go to a hotel, if there is not a

Gideon Bible in their drawer or wherever in there, to call the front desk and ask them if they overlooked it or somebody may have taken it, but let them know at that hotel that it's important to you.

And until now, were there very huge changes in your perspective on how you view

God and how you view what the Bible teaches? Oh, well, yeah,

I all of a sudden was in a relationship with him. I never was before. He was just this historic figure that lived a long time ago that we're all supposed to believe about and try to please, you know, which is impossible because it's an inside job.

He used to build a San Theodore Knock. He was to come in and work from the inside out, but, yeah, everything changed.

All of a sudden, the author of the Word of God lived inside of me, and I could pick up a

Bible and actually understand it because the teacher was in me, and so that's different than just trying to figure it out with our little pea brain, you know, trying to fit

God into our brain. That's hilarious. But it's everything changed.

My view of the church changed. I didn't think much of the church there for the longest time, and frankly, even after I was saved,

I was a little bit mad at them because they didn't ever tell me the truth, you know, the ones that I went to anyway. They didn't tell me what it was to be born again, and so I was a little bit mad at them for a while, but then

I decided, well, you know, they can only tell you what they know, and they didn't know it either, so... Yeah, I've often told people that they should never blame

Jesus for what Judas did. There are people who, just because they've had a bad experience, and I'm not making light of their bad experiences, some of them may have been absolutely nightmarish, they may have been molested by a pastor or something, but at the same time, it's still important that people recognize that the worst that a

Christian on earth can do should never be put upon Christ himself and his word as if Christ is at fault, and that we should abandon his church just because of any negative or horrible experience that we've had in our lives.

It is a command that we would not forsake the assembling of the brethren, and it's a command that we place ourselves under the authority of elders in a local church, so we have to put aside even those deeply felt hurts and that pain that may still exist from horrible experiences or just inadequate experiences, and we still have to try to find a place that we believe by God's grace and through the indwelling of the

Holy Spirit is accurately representing Christ's flock here on the earth.

Well, any time we hold God suspect, that's the fallen nature talking. Right. Adam and Eve had to bite into that before they bit into whatever fruit that was, that God is holding out on you,

God's not pretty good, yea, have God said, you know, you mean to tell me you can, he said you could have every trait but that one, and so that is the fallen nature supposed to be dead, does try to resurrect every now and then, but any time we hold

God suspect on any level, that is the fallen nature talking, Christians should be saying,

God's good all the time, I don't care what it looks like, I don't care what's going on, but you go up to any stranger on the street and start talking about God, you know what they'll first say, well, if God's so good, how come, you know, babies die, how come this and that, that's the fallen nature, and people who are not born again, that's all they've got, is their fallen nature, so Christians should never be speaking out of that nature, that's supposed to be born again, that's supposed to be brand new, that's supposed to be full of Jesus and the word and so on, so that's the way

I see it, and also I think there's a difference between being a believer and being born again, that's huge for me, because I was, there was never a day

I didn't believe there was Jesus, you know, the devil believes. Yeah, the book of James tells us this.

Yeah, but I wasn't born again until I was 38 years old, so I've written a children's book called

The Little Dirt People, the subtitle is what it means to be born again, because I tell this little story when

I speak and when I have time and they give me more time to speak, I tell that little story, and it's so poignant and really tells it like it is, you know,

I think we try to over -spiritualize the term born again. In fact, some people just irritate them, you know, why don't we like Jesus?

Those are his words. If we don't like his words, we don't like him, because he is the word. The word became flesh and dwelt among us.

And so, I would like to share that little story, if I may, if we've got enough time.

Oh yeah, definitely do that. Yeah, well, I speak for the Gideons a lot, outside of pastored banquets and that sort of thing.

Sometimes they want me to speak in churches and share my testimony. And one Sunday morning, I was to do that, and good

Gideons always get there early, boy, you know, to pray with the pastor and everything. And so, we got there early, and evidently one of the teachers didn't show up, so they grabbed me and said, we want you to teach a little kid this morning.

I went, what? I didn't have anything ready, you know, so I got on the corner and prayed, and the

Lord gave me one word, one word, that's all I got, fellowship. And I thought, fellowship, okay, well, whatever.

So they throw me in the room with all these little bitty kids, and they're looking at me like a bunch of little deer caught in the headlights, you know.

Who are you? And I said, how many kids understand fellowship? And they're still looking at me. And I said, well, you know, kitty cats like to hang out with kitty cats, and doggies like to hang out with doggies, and I thought, this is really lame.

And let's see, okay, yeah, alright, people like to hang out with people, and Lord, you can jump in anytime now,

I don't know where we're going with this. And he showed me, and I said, okay, and God is a spirit.

Who do you suppose God wants to hang out with, little kid on the front row? A spirit? I said, that's right, but God had this problem, because he made these little dirt people.

Can you imagine trying to fellowship a little plot of dirt? And so God breathed his, he fixed that, he breathed his very own spirit into those little dirt people, and he made them living spirit people, and then he was able to fellowship with them spirit to spirit.

And then he said, okay, you guys, you can eat every tree in the garden except that one. You eat that one, you'll surely die.

Well, we all know they ate of it and they didn't kill over and drop dead. What died? Same kid. Their spirit?

I said, that's right, and that was the fall of man. And so we're all born with this little dead spirit laying there, and God says,

I really miss fellowshiping with my kids down there. But he had a big plan in place. He sent the very best thing he had, his very own son to become the final lamb slain for all the sins of the whole world.

Little kid on the back row, why? I said, because God's own blood is the only thing holy enough to wash away all the sins of the whole world.

And so God became a man, and his whole purpose in life was to take that holy blood from that manger to that cross.

He did a bunch of neat stuff in between. He did a bunch of miracles to prove he was God, and he taught all kinds of wonderful things, but it just made a bunch of people mad, and so they put him on the cross.

But he wasn't surprised, and when those nails went in, and that holy blood came out, that was supposed to take care of everybody's sins in the whole wide world, but it's not automatic.

We have to first be very sorry for our sins, and then we have to believe that he is the

Savior, that he did die on the cross for our sins, and that he rose again on the third day.

And so we ask him to forgive us of our sins, and we invite him to come into our hearts, and he sends his

Holy Spirit. Yep, same kid. So he comes into our hearts, and we become born again.

He wakes up that little dead spirit. So we're born again, and that's what's going to Heaven, and so now we're able to fellowship once again with the

Father, Spirit to Spirit. So I wrote this little children's book called

The Little Dirt People, and you can get it on Amazon, but, you know,

I have a wonderful thing happened in Phoenix, Arizona. I was out there speaking, and this lady,

I was doing a little retreat out there in this lady's home, and I had ten of those books left.

She said, I want to buy them all. I said, okay. Well, I know that you could have...

Okay, I'm sorry, you're not finished with the story. I'm sorry. Yeah, so later on, after we all left and everything, she was cleaning up in there.

Her husband comes home from work, he sits down, he says, what's this? He picked it up, he started reading it, and he got saved.

He was a judge. Wow. I was just pouring myself a cup of coffee, and I wasn't expecting to hear that.

Praise God. He could even use something that was intended for little children to save an adult and even a judge.

Praise God for that. And if anybody wants more information on that children's book and on the music that Tempe has recorded, her website is tempebrown .com,

Tempe Brown, that's T -E -M -P -E, just like Tempe, Arizona. Brown .com.

And we are going to our final break right now. If you have any more questions for Tempe before our program concludes, which is just about 20 minutes from now, please send in your questions soon to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and as always, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

U .S .A. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Before we have our commercials aired, you're going to be blessed once again by another song by Tempe Brown from her heavenly jazz album

Just in Time. I hope you are blessed. Just in time,

I found you just in time. Before you came, my time was running low.

Just in time, I was lost. The losing dice were tossed.

My bridges all were crossed. Nowhere to go.

Well, now you're here, and now I know just where I'm going.

No more doubt or fear. I've found my way for you.

Just in time, I found you just in time.

Before you came, my time was running low.

Just in time, I Just in time, I found you just in found you just in time.

running low. time. Just in time, I found you just in time.

Before you came, my time was running Just in time,

I Before you came, my time was running Just in time,

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This is Chris Arnzen and we are now in our final five minutes of our interview with Tempe Brown, author, singer, songwriter, and public speaker, who has been addressing

God's Word never returns to him empty, the testimony of a sinner saved by grace through the labors of the

Gideons. We have R .J. in White Plains, New York, who wants to know, Tempe, do you plan on recording a

Christian album? I have recorded two Christian albums, one of songs

I wrote and the other one is called Vintage Hymns, and so yeah,

I've already done that. Great, and in fact, Tempe did send me a link for a few songs that for some reason we had technical problems with.

We wanted to play one or two of those songs and I don't know why we couldn't open it, but perhaps in the future we can get those aired on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

I want you to make sure, Tempe, that you have at least three minutes uninterrupted to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about the

God who saved you. Well, there is no other.

A lot of people are confused about, you know, especially there is a very popular lady on television that has said, there are many paths to heaven.

Well, I got a Hebrew word for that, baloney. And people are confused and I say, what about all those other deities?

Because Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the Father but by Him, and people don't get that when there's all these other quote -unquote deities.

Well, those other quote -unquote deities are their created sons.

They're flesh and blood, just like you and me. Their bones are in the ground. They can't help anybody. Jesus is the only begotten son.

Big difference. And, you know, they weren't powerful enough to split the calendar right down the middle, were they?

It's not BB. It's not BM. Well, that's probably good. But it's

BC. He is the one that split the calendar right down the middle. That's somebody pretty important.

And so it's too bad that people will believe anything to keep from coming to God.

They just, they'll believe, well, we're made of monkeys. Oh yeah? Well, we don't pray my Father up a tree.

He's our Father in Heaven and I'm sorry that there's so much confusion and I'm sorry that it's not been made more perfectly clear to people.

I don't understand why. I had questions before I got saved, but I didn't know how to ask them.

I didn't know. It's okay to ask questions and if you're going to a church and they don't know how to answer them, maybe you better find another church because these are simple questions.

Simple, simple questions. Jesus is the way and I'm always surprised and amazed at all the different kinds of ways we're trying to get in Heaven.

Well, I'm a good person, you know that one. They're obviously deceived or they wouldn't be saying it what they're really saying without realizing it is

I'm good enough to get to Heaven on my own merit. Well, yeah, right. Or, well,

I'm Baptist, you know, or I'm whatever. Well, there's, I'm Catholic, I'm Methodist, I'm Amish, I'm whatever.

Well, there's a bunch of those up there but that's not how they got there. Aren't you glad Heaven isn't all divided up into denominations again?

Imagine getting up there, well, you know, the Catholic section's over here and the Baptists are back there.

I don't think so. And, my goodness, it's, people need to think things through.

Sometimes they just believe anything that they've been told and, you know, it's very hard to un -teach somebody something.

Many, many denominations, it's just tradition, tradition, tradition. You gotta bow here and you gotta cross yourself there and you got to do this and do that.

Well, Jesus said that the Word of God, that the traditions of men have made the

Word of God of none effect. I mean, that, that covers a lot of stuff right there. I mean, that's, that's worthy of a

Bible study all by itself. It's Him. It's all about Him.

It's not doing this and doing that and it's not, you know, Christianity is not a religion.

It's a relationship. All those other quote -unquote religions are just somebody's set of rules.

That's all is, and the religious people were the ones that put Jesus on the cross because He didn't go,

He didn't follow their set of rules. In fact, the religious spirit is, to me, it's got to be the most dangerous spirit in the world because that's the very one that put

Jesus on the cross. It's our way or the highway, you know, and you can go to any church, they're going to have their set of rules.

They're going to have their little set of rules. Well, that's fine if they're biblical. And it's fine if they're, you know, not killing you with the letter of the law and there's some mercy in there somewhere.

Otherwise, it becomes a religious spirit and very difficult to deal with.

And Jesus dealt with that mess every day. They just dogged His every step.

And, you know, the whole deal of Him coming here is love.

It's what, for God so loved the world. When I got on that stage after I got born again and I went down there, the first thing

I noticed was besides it being so dark in there, I noticed something else that was really weird. I loved everybody in the room.

It was so weird because there was a lot of real unlovable people in there. But there they were.

God so loved the world. Most Christians are trying to avoid the world, you know, but He loved the world.

I'm not saying we hang out with them, but I am saying that we love them enough to grab them out of the jaws of hell if we can.

Amen. And that's what I do. That is my ministry. I tell people about Jesus, and you can't shut me up.

I mean, just try. Well, I just was thrilled to have you on today.

I look forward to you returning to the program at some point in the future. I want our listeners to remember that Tempe's website is tempebrown .com.

That's T -E -M -P -E, just like Arizona, brown .com, and there's no

E at the end of brown, by the way. And also, for those of you interested in finding more about the

Gideons, go to gideons .org, G -I -D -E -O -N -S dot org.

Thank you so much, Tempe, for being on the show. I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

I hope you all have a safe and blessed weekend, and especially a wonderful Lord's Day, and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner. Thank you, Chris. That's a big amen right there.