Cultish: Contacting the Other Side

Apologia Studios

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What we are going to be discussing this evening is the subject of UFOs, friend, foe, or fantasy, and it is a vast art.

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The United States government knows what they are. The Soviet government knows what they are. Everybody who has done any investigation in depth knows what they are.

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They are some form of extremely sophisticated aircraft, not made by any government occupying territory on our earth that we know of.

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Their capacities are utterly astounding. They have been clocked at speeds in excess of 25 ,000 miles per hour in our atmosphere.

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At speeds that rapid, you would burn up normally, yet they make right -angle turns at speeds of 5 ,000 miles per hour in our atmosphere.

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You couldn't make a right -angle turn at that speed without disintegrating in our atmosphere.

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They go straight up or straight down, left or right, and accelerate from a few hundred miles per hour to thousands of miles per hour in seconds.

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They appear to defy all the known laws of gravity, and scientists have suggested that this is perhaps because they generate their own gravitational field based upon our poles and some form of magnetic induction.

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We do not know the explanation, but we know that the aircraft exist.

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UFOs are inevitably characterized as a secret weapon of the enemy. The Russians tell their people that they are theirs, and our people are told that they belong to us.

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Everybody is scared to death to talk about whose they really are, because nobody truly knows.

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The only thing that is known is that we are definitely trying to explain naturally, and with all forms of evasion, what quite obviously disturbs the heads of the military and of our governments.

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All right. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to Cultish, entering the kingdom of the cults.

02:32

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are. Welcome to not another episode of She -login, because we're here today to be with the she and cult, cultish, cultish.

02:44

The she and cultish. She, she, she. Oh, that is wonderful.

02:49

I really thought it was already starting. Oh my gosh. Yes. I spent a long time on that one. You're welcome.

02:54

Did you really? No. I mean, zero time. Zero time. Wow. You passed up to get to that one?

03:02

I Totally thought you're gonna bring the her and Bob lizard Now you ruined it oh

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There's plenty yeah, hey, yeah, but the her and airy Well, hey,

03:27

I'm summer Jaeger, and I'm here with my beautiful co -host joy and also some other

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I'm not gonna call you beautiful. I'm Jeff, and I'm with my hair of my We're trying to defect from our nasty beard laugh at your name

03:41

I said Jeremiah Here's the funny thing is that our very first episode of the show was a little bit of a

03:48

Episode we ever did I was trying to think I want to make myself different from the times I've been an apology or radio, so I told

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Jeff like you've got to call me just Jeremiah I gotta be the serious thing and you were struggling with the whole time There's a couple times where you're going

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I find this so compelling to Jeremiah Jerry is his own

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Jeremiah he doesn't need He's just Jerry yeah, and that's a good thing right

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Cuz he's his own adjective that's right Ain't nobody me like so what are we doing today?

04:24

We're doing a mash -up of sheologians and coal fish, and we're talking about a very important subject, and what is that Jeremiah?

04:33

Well We are talking about UFOs the subject of aliens

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Area 51 and just kind of like a whole there's it that's just a huge huge topic and I mean there's so many angles in which you can approach it and a lot of times like what we're doing right now with cultures that we're just trying to kind of Find a topic to introduce a subject because there's so many different ways you can introduce the subject of UFOs aliens

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It's such a big thing in like pop culture I mean, I've got a t -shirt one might that my t -shirt where at least me summer, and I we both have like t -shirts related

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Yeah, and so in that round, but just you think I didn't get the notification I know

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I know but like the last starfighters like one of my favorite movie So it's one of my favorite movies growing up as a kid, but just that fascination like what is why are we here?

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Is there anything that's beyond us? That's always been like I think it's just something that's prominent That's been expressed just in in film for sure summer is all about government funded projects

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Showing your corruption right now. I'm pretty sure about this shirt at Target by the way Yeah, but also joy has been wanting to talk about aliens on sheologians for I mean

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I think she first brought it up like when we first started Yeah, she's wanted to talk about it like what topics could we discuss and joy has been like aliens?

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Why but actually I think that's a good question like joy has a fascination with the alien phenomenon

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Yes, and I didn't understand it And I think that's probably something a lot of Christians are gonna be like why are you guys talking about aliens?

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Yeah, well yeah, I'm cultish like why is it a cult is? Is it right cultish well, maybe

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I can is it what why are we talking about so I'll introduce me this to help us yeah, why would we go here my brother is not a believer and Over a decade ago.

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He came to me, and we were talking and he was just going bonkers with alien stuff like you know

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Rejects the Christian worldview was all about aliens. I asked him at the time I said well who are you reading and where can

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I go to study? You know your perspective so he introduced me to sit in and there was Lazar in there all that stuff so for the last decade at least really

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I've been just I mean honestly it's embarrassing sometimes how many hours that I Spend like actually listening to the documentaries and listening to sit in and all the top guys

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And the reason is because my brother basically developed an entirely different perspective of the world and life and purpose

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Because of this perspective, so this this is a whole worldview Yeah And it leads often times

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I would say almost it seems like almost every time into the New Age and into the world Specifically of the occult so there's a cultish axe aspect to this and an occult aspect to this and today you have guys like Joe Rogan very popular podcast and he is

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Having guys on like Alex Jones and Alex Jones is talking about aliens And he's talking about DMT and communicating with entities elves with horns and yeah evil entities and different things like that government

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Involvement in these sorts of things skull and bones and Nazis and all that stuff and it leads into a totally different perspective

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On Jesus the Bible the world and so it is something you have to talk about today

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If you're gonna have a coherent response to those who are adopting what is now becoming part of pop culture, right?

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yeah, and even if you look at a Every now every couple months like time life magazine always releases some book

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Maggots big magazine about cults and the interest in them. It always seems like they have the four prominent characters

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They usually they'll have someone they'll have Jim Jones Charles Manson David Koresh and the leader from Heaven's Gate never with me you listen to the intro to our episode

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Planet Earth about to be recycled your only chance to survive is to leave with us

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And that's that was a mixture of the of New Age and UFO ufology yeah, and of course that they use it as an extreme example because there's tons of cults that have view of Ufology surrounding them their

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Heaven's Gate is just the most one of the most extreme examples of that So it's important to look from a biblical standpoint.

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Okay, how do we make sense of this pop culture phenomena? that people are destined to but how do you make sense of what these things are and how do you even address them because people in unbelieving worldviews they adopt them into Unbelieving systems as well too and I mean obviously

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Heaven's Gate is the most extreme example Yeah, Heaven's Gate this group this cult following the teachings of this man

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New Age and ufology put together all wear the same clothing Go to Marie Callender's eat chicken or turkey pot pie, right?

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Go back to the place put what is a five dollars and 25 cents into their pocket and cover their heads with a shroud as They drink poison and they all killed themselves why to go escape this world in onto a

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UFO that was passing by The earth yeah, and the other thing too is that it's people will usually look at a situation like that and they'll think

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No, they're just the one who are just kind of crazy or just they're not that Intel people who aren't really that intelligent

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We get duped into a movement like that and I don't know how much you guys have studied about Heaven's Gate But if you look at all the people surrounding

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The different people who committed suicide a lot of them had like we're very intelligent people

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I think a couple of them were like attorneys you had some people Yeah, all the real estate brokers knew how to They knew how to go after people who had money.

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Yeah, they needed money to keep Operating especially those that lived like on compounds and stuff like that and they did have that ability to find lawyers doctors people that were

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You know, not not just like nut jobs. Yeah, right and and and think about how pop culture

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Where pop culture has us now when you have a guy like Alex Jones on Smoking pot and drinking with Joe Rogan.

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It's always entertaining for the first thing but now you have the introduction of an entirely new possible perspective of reality a new world and life view and It's it's it's gaining people's confidence.

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So whereas Alex Jones would have been seen before as like that's laughable. It's a joke It was funny seeing him on Joe Rogan the first time getting high and drinking and everything else

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He comes back on what are they talking about? Here's Joe Rogan who used to be like pretty staunch atheistic kind of guy.

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Yeah, and now he's talking about different realities now He's talking about breaching into another dimension DMT and taking what is

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Pharmakia sorcery and communicating with entities on the other side Joe Rogan just very open to it Like I've done it and it's it's it's a crazy experience and people need to do it

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And you know that kind of a thing and and coming back with messages from the other side or experiences and people going

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Maybe it's not so crazy. Maybe there is a different dimension to reality maybe you can communicate with other beings that have a message for us and Alex Jones is is on there and you've got

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Joe Rogan sidekick like in many ways like kind of tag -teaming with with Alex Jones and It becomes something everyone says well

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Maybe this isn't so crazy Maybe aliens and and UFOs and other spirits and you even have

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Alex Jones going so far as the same Things like, you know government agencies are actually, you know Funding projects where they communicate with these other beings from other dimensions and they're feeding us

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Technology and information and those sort of things and everyone before I mean 20 years ago ago. You are nuts

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You're out of your mind. Everyone goes. Hmm Maybe yeah, I mean Bob Lazar. Well, yeah,

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I mean, um, I think for a long I think For forever people have been wondering why are we here?

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Are we alone especially people that come from? Sort of the materialist background people that believe in evolution the

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Big Bang people people study why we are here how we How why there are more evolved forms?

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Why like and if we're in such a vast vast universe, would we be the only people but I mean back when we didn't know about space and galaxies we were seeing science fiction written about What's under the ocean what's in the center of the earth and then we've learned about space and it was like Oh, what's in our solar system?

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And then we found out it more about our solar system And now it's like what's in the next galaxy over we've always been this is not something that's new, but I do think for a while Sort of the secular nation did take over and we believe we believed for a while.

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It was sufficient enough that That We are just here sort of as an accident.

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We should be good people blah blah blah insert whatever argument here but but then you have a situation where People are doing things like DMT or people are having experiences that they can't

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They can't explain like you can only pretend like this is all just nothing for so long

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Well, enjoy and just for those who are new to this you you mentioned materialist That's the idea that the only thing that exists is the material universe not nothing immaterial

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Nothing beyond the material realm, right? So very atomistic view of reality, which it would mean

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I mean it in in that world if we Like if we

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I mean, it's already it's already pretty insane that we're here as a result of evolution

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Just the fact that that a male and a female Humanoid would evolve at the right time and they would both evolve reproductive parts that Evolved so that they could actually procreate and then they've evolved at the same time

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And then we were able to actually have everything work and then like that's pretty amazing.

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So more as it is most like God created us but because that's possible in it if you want to eat

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I You can see from an evolutionary standpoint why people would think that there is something else out there

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Why would you just assume that we're the only planet in this? unending universe right that had some sort of Evolution that occurred and created intelligent beings that that evolved a conventional sense of morality and all this stuff and so it it makes sense why people would think that and it makes sense why people would go there because in essence it allows

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It allows the materialist to believe And qualify the idea that there is something bigger than us that is more intelligent and May even a lot of them would say

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What has a hand in the things that go on here? Well, Richard Richard Dawkins when you write push him on where we came from If you push him and push him push him we have him on record saying well

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It's very likely that an alien kind of life -form planted us here like it began the process

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Yeah, so in a materialistic worldview, you are still reduced to believing that there's some kind of creator

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Who did this on purpose? But she's absolutely right if you are a materialist, why wouldn't there be aliens?

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Well, yeah, if you accept the micro mutational micro mutation macro evolutionary worldview

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And that's you and you look at the vastness of space and all those different galaxies and planets like by deduction

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Well, if we got here Accidentally from highly evolved societies of bacteria to fish to African apes to us

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Why wouldn't that happen on some planet? I mean honestly to me that really only seems like it could happen

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And unguided just completely unguided miracle, I don't know Seems like something had to create it that had no creator

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Basically is what I sometimes think I laugh too at times I think like, you know people who accept like the the

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Darwinian or neo -darwinian model and they're like, well, yeah You know just random, you know processes and you know, all these different things happen over time and like, you know, here we are

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I'm like, you don't have any children, do you? You've never seen a four -year -old

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That don't happen in this world, you know, there's there's definitely some divine guidance and yeah

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So you talked a little bit about how you initially got into studying the alien stuff because of your brother, right?

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What I'm curious about joy And so well summer you mentioned that joy has been waiting for how long since she since we started since we started

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So I guess my question you joy is like what? Give me the reason behind the reason like why is a subject of aliens such a fascinating subject for you?

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Like all this thing like why is it so why is this so so exciting for you personally? Well, I think initially the reason

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I got into it. I would have been about 14 or 15 When I really really got into it

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Obviously at most of my life have been a huge sci -fi nerd And so I I went from reading you just understand

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Yeah, I went from reading fiction about aliens to reading nonfiction

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But so I my very first interaction with it honestly would be

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This kind of show okay. All right, and here's the part where the YouTube commenters like Second joy starts at 14

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Well, so I just got strangely obsessed with it

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I would go to the library and I would check out all kinds of books about Cryptozoology and you know, like the the

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Creatures that exist but don't exist and we can't find them and all that stuff. And then

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I Actually, I read you guys most of you have probably heard of a popular Fiction movie called the

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Mothman prophecies. Well, the book is not actually a fiction story It is actually nonfiction or written as nonfiction and it is a story of accounts of this creature that people have seen

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I Mean consistently in people of different Economic statuses and races and genders and locations and all this stuff right and Honestly, I paused

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My interest in it. This is completely anecdotal, of course, but I just felt really icky

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When I was reading that book like all the time Until I returned to that book to the library and basically said like I have no interest in even studying this anymore from this perspective at least because I Felt scared a lot and so Like I said, that's never you never told me the story.

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Yeah, that's not it's not that's a I didn't do I didn't fill out like my observation and my

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Hypothesis and I didn't do like I didn't use a scientific method, but that's how I felt about it.

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So yeah technical term yeah, and then obviously as I got older I got a lot into creation science or at least

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I guess If you mischaracterize what I mean by creation science, I don't know what to say

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I really don't know at this point, but basically I got interested I became interested in in Just the amazing way that God Made the world and the universe by extension observational.

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Yeah. Yeah, and uh, and I ended up obviously reading Gary Bates alien intrusion and then

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I think that the important the important thing is that I myself like had an experience with aliens or whatever that I that was

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It was effective enough to have me set it down and I don't even know that I would say I was a Christian at the time that I was super into it and then what

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I really began to notice is that the The accounts that people would give were very

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Consistent across the board. You can't deny there's there's plenty of evidence That that doesn't support the existence of aliens and there's plenty of evidence that supports that the existence that the belief in Aliens is very faith based for me but I also think there's plenty of evidence that would suggest that there it's it would be silly to just be like You're making that up.

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It's fake or whatever. And there are plenty. There's plenty of stuff. I think that is Just as an overthinking that you're saying that and I agree with you on this that when people some people have these experiences

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Of actual contact with an entity, right? We're not denying that right now

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I do think that sometimes that's not real and I think sometimes there is something that is happening

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I don't I think that if you were trying to look at it from just From a scientific perspective, which actually

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Gary Bates does an alien intrusion. You can't exclude the fact that people

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People even if you want to you brought up DMT, right? It's it's it would be

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Intellectually dishonest for us to look at all these accounts of people who did DMT and experienced the same thing

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The same coming into contact with same the same kind of entities Receiving similar types of information having similar feelings while on it and just be like, oh, they're just all making that up, right?

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You know, it's not it's not that part of it is not a mass conspiracy It would be more honest to say they probably legitimately did all experience that now

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Was it an alien from another planet? Right, right. It was maybe an entity from another dimension, right?

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But another thing just too is that you would say and I've seen it just by reading some of the research that I did is that And again, there's stuff though You have to sort through things that are hoax like you've talked about like obviously like the crop circles and stuff like that But it's been proven that they're very easy to do in very short amounts of time.

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And that's why I mentioned the faith Like that there are claims there I think there's there's plenty of evidence that a lot of people believe in aliens because they have faith that they exist but the one thing to make

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Note of and I talked about this when I had Steven Bancroft on is that like a lot of these encounters whether it's something like a new -age practice like astral projection or lucid dreaming the the

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Accounts of what they experience like independently they line There's similarities that line up With going on to the like the look the higher s realm the lower astral realm and even experiencing what

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Steven talked about I've seen videos people talk about even experiencing like rape And sexual assault on like these lower astral planes by entities and there's an aspect

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You know is like an almost 100 % consistency and people who have been abducted by aliens.

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Yeah Yeah, and so that is almost 100 % of the time reported. Yeah, like some sort of sexual probing abuse

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Something like that Yeah it's not just that is that there's the reason why it's important to to look at as as Christians and analyze this from a biblical biblical worldview is that most of the times when there's these alien encounters this the it's not really about the

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What sort of techno we're here to share like our technology or how we how we grow organic strawberries or what?

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Or snozzberries or whatever they grow in other planets, you know I don't know. I'm just trying to think of like what would aliens like grow on their other planets how we travel at light speed

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Yeah They don't have I'm not here to share that with you They don't have they don't we don't they want to show like how we could how their tech how their generations ahead of us technology

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They don't have a PlayStation 10 or anything like that. But They would have that we wouldn't or they're ahead of us but this it always seems like the source and focus of a lot of these encounters with these aliens and UFOs are always on the origins of man and like what is like the true nature of reality and like who is and they always seem to have some

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Sort of insight on who Jesus is and like denying the Old Testament You're saying they talk about what

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No, just like a lot of beliefs and people who there's definitely beliefs and religions based off of encounters Like what some sort of contact with UFOs?

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Yeah, there's a lot of them have a comment Okay, well you guys are you're now you're in a realm that I don't know about so explain this to somebody who's

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So what Jerry's referring to? This is this and I think Joyce and affirming this what I've seen the same thing is oftentimes we will have contact with these

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With aliens or interdimensional beings, they'll have the contact and they'll get

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Information data about the other side those sorts of things and there's a common theme

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It's not 100 % universal But it's a common theme where you'll find Oftentimes that people make contact and they have say

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I'm the one that communicates with this entity they always have like a new interpretation of who Jesus is a

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New interpretation of who Jesus is and a new perspective of the future and the purpose of mankind

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So they actually do come back oftentimes with information about Christ and his ministry and his purpose like what?

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Well, there's times where people will even argue that Jesus was was alien people have gone so far as to say something like that Or they'll deny that he's the divine

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Son of God Heaven's gate had a particular view of Jesus if you listen to his and they're up right now

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You can watch them on YouTube just type in heaven's gate audio and you'll hear him Just waxing long about who

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Jesus is and his purpose in the universe and all these different things He'll quote from the words of Jesus But his perspective about Jesus is not that Jesus is the divine

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Son of God the only God the way to salvation It's a new version of Jesus is another

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Christ and that's it That's a pretty common thing that you'll see in these reports back from alien encounters is this is who

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Jesus really was that interesting and in fact, this is like throwback to like 1997

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I think it was when the Heaven's Gate mass suicide happened and this is when the internet was in his infancy

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I remember being in my computer class and I heard about on the news and so me my friend were just kind of goofing around It won't make because I went

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I was at school. That was 98 % Mormon And so one of my friends who was Mormon good friend of mine like hey

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Let's look up heaven gate heaven's gate and see what that's all about So he pulled up the website, you know, and it's like just like lowering down, you know

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And I just went to one of the first pages I clicked on the guy was Interpreting Jesus' baptism and the

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Holy Spirit. I think he was saying like the Holy Spirit descending as a dove Somehow he reinterpreted that that was some sort of like UFO encounter

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Mm -hmm, you can laugh and have a chuckle about that. But this is theology that ended up with 30 somewhat people killing themselves.

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That's exactly right. I think that's the main point We want to discuss this and this can be a two -part episode. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay, so so building foundations now

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I'm gonna talk about why it's important to talk about these things isn't important to talk about these things or can we just continue to Be dismissive as Christians and say

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I don't need to have an answer I want to say if you're concerned with cultish things and and theology mattering in the world

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Then you do have to have an answer for these things because I think joy is exactly right. We can't say well these people

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They're just lying. They're just lying. Like well, no if you listen to them and their experiences

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There's some pretty common threads right between their experiences And what's interesting is it develops a new theology a new anthropology and a new worldview

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I mean all that's contained in there. And so they have a they're propagating a particular view of reality

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It's not always the same view but it is a view that's devoid of who Jesus truly is It's a denial of his ultimate authority and his claims

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I mean people don't have alien encounters oftentimes an alien encounter and come back and say guys Jesus is the way the truth and a life no man comes to the father by him

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People he rose again from the dead you better repent believe in a hurry, right? No, it's always happening something very very different like I don't think

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Joe Rogan's interest in aliens and all the things that he's doing now in these discussions is Is because he wants to see really is that are the claims of Jesus true and should

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I believe them? It's it's a new interpretation of reality and we got to have a discussion about it

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I I find one of the things fascinating about this whole situation is now you've got Guys who are popularly seen as an atheist not many years ago now actually

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Saying well, I grant there's like maybe other dimensions and you know I may have breached that doorway and everyone going maybe we can maybe we can take these drugs

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That can get us into a state of consciousness. We can communicate by the other side I go. Oh lo and behold the

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Bible already spoke about this Deuteronomy chapter 18 has an example God commanding his people in his law

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Against forbidding them from engaging in the kind of common sorcery and Attempts at communication and breaching that veil that the pagans were often doing.

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Yes Look, it's not a it's not like a new 21st century thing Like the Internet invented that people take, you know

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Chemicals and medications to actually now make contact with something on the other side.

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It's like there's nothing new under the Sun friends That's precisely what happened a long long time ago That actually is in the words of God the warning against pharmakia and sorcery and actually actually, you know

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Getting to a state of consciousness where you get to the other side I'll just say this this briefly as a chaplain at a hospital for four years full time of people who were addicted to drugs and alcohol

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I came across many instances of people thinking that they had actually made contact with the other side or That they were demonically possessed and I'll just say this as an encouragement to everyone

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Hopefully honestly about 90 % of the people that I ever spoke to the thought they were demon possessed or having interactions with demons

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Were not I mean legitimately could work through scripture in terms of like identifying marks of demonic possession and I would say no

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This just seems like fearfulness that sort of a thing But I did I did two times legitimately without question come into contact with people that were legitimately

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Demonically possessed had been communicating with demons with entities from the other side from another dimension

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Two times legitimately no question about it. Absolutely one person praise

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God came to Christ and We would have a whole show about that encounter. I had that literally made the hair of my body stand up but both those people both of those people began their

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Communication with the demonic with entities from another dimension from the other side with Drugs that actually got them into a state of consciousness where they could communicate

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One guy was so far gone. He was so deep so far gone and the information that he had was

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Frightening it was terrifying in terms of its accuracy and the consistency of these experiences

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He had names for these entity entities and the demons he knew who they were He knew they were demonic and he said there was there was no escape for me.

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I just gave him the gospel I said there is hope for those who turn to faith in Jesus and he ended up disappearing a day later

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But he was legitimately demonically possessed and had been communicating and it was drugs that took him into it

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What God for it was forbade for bad from his people's don't do this He did it and he reached that other side and this girl

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She was possessed for a period about four or five years and it all started with drugs that actually took her into that state

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Though guy the initial guy he got into it unwittingly a good friend of his was into witchcraft and sorcery

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He went to his house one night The guy was doing this seance kind of a thing candles and he'll take these drugs with me and that was his entrance into It was this guy was a professional communicator with the other side and sorcery and pharmacia and that opened that door

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And it led this guy into some deep deep deep darkness And so what I'm saying is God actually talks about this stuff

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Long before Joe Rogan and Alex Jones and all the rest and he actually says don't do it

32:57

Don't try to cross that barrier because what you come back with is not gonna be

33:03

Friendly, well, it doesn't necessarily start as Seemingly unfriendly, right?

33:09

They don't it. I'm sure in these situations that you're talking about. It wasn't just like hello.

33:14

I'm a demon like I Hate your soul

33:20

With the accuser. Yeah a big part of it. Well, like you're talking about DMT So similar to DMT is ayahuasca.

33:28

It's ayahuasca is basically a form right DMT It just I'm not gonna explain exactly what it is, but it's the same thing but slightly different but people actually do ayahuasca now to like heal addiction

33:43

Problems depression trauma and what happens is they go on multi -day trips typically and you do ayahuasca and then you come into contact with these guides that like help you through your trauma or they like confront your trauma or Those are so those are acceptably more

34:07

Negative experiences, I think I don't think it's a 100 % negative experience and many people sing its praises

34:14

There are there are churches built off of people who do ayahuasca and heal their their members of their addictions

34:23

Apparently and things like that in this show. We are not saying they're making that up in this show.

34:29

We are saying Well, let's yeah, it's possible that in in in the beginning

34:36

It there's there's not an app a complete absence of power of evil

34:43

Obviously God is infinitely more powerful Yeah, but the point is is that sometimes and and especially in relation to the

34:50

New Age? there is a lot of There is a lot of like New Age chiropractor stuff lots of lots of New Age stuff that does really produce

35:01

Results like things really do happen. So just because there is Like Joe Rogan is reporting these positive feelings on DMT or Mike Tyson said he took

35:15

DMT and he like never he hasn't feared death since he hasn't been like afraid of what death is

35:20

So that might seem Like a very nice thing. It might seem like oh, well

35:27

I guess DMT or ayahuasca is beneficial to the human race because it gets rid of our addictions and it gets rid of our fears

35:34

And things like that But it doesn't mean just because something is like up front producing positive results that doesn't

35:44

That is I would say that that's more like alluring than anything

35:52

Necessary like than any it's not something that we as Christians should be like like just because something is good at face value

35:58

We shouldn't just be like, oh well DMT is helping people. That's great, right? And I'll just say just quickly briefly the point of there's a point of contact that's from the scripture

36:05

We don't have to be afraid of this discussion or just be dismissive and say no There's a point of contact in terms of what

36:11

God warns against Don't try to make contact with the other side and there's actually an incident of punishment in the

36:17

Old Testament Essentially discipline where contact of the other side is attempted and what comes back isn't what was desired

36:25

And so you have that incident in the Old Testament where God warns against that he warns against the practice of trying to communicate with the other side through drugs and medication

36:33

But in terms of a point of contact of people making contact with the other side It's throughout the

36:38

New Testament even after the resurrection of Jesus you have in the book of Acts You have a demon -possessed man and what's the demon say when people who aren't ready to actually confront this demon

36:49

Jesus I know Paul I know but who are you? Well, there's there is an an example of People actually making contact in the new two pages the

36:59

New Testament with something that is not image of God and human It's demonic possession and it's actual communication and contact so we can't just be dismissive and say there's no contact

37:10

Possible with the other side right our Bible holds examples of contact with the other side

37:15

But the warning in Scripture is don't attempt to make that contact because what comes back is not what you're thinking

37:23

Yeah, well what you really want? Well, okay, so I need some definitions because as someone who doesn't like you guys, you know about this stuff

37:32

I don't so I the average listener hasn't read about this stuff. What is pharmakia?

37:37

What is DMT? Why are people taking DMT? What's the point? What is any of this stuff?

37:43

Why is it happening? And also let's also define to you like how is this related to the subject that we're talking on? We're gonna get to Bob Lazar But we want to lay a foundation of like how is that related to you ufology and UFOs and aliens?

37:53

Yes, and maybe we can cap because we're almost at about 45 minutes for this show Maybe we can cap this show off with my story about how my dad helped me build area 51 and then

38:01

I'll get people into the Bob Lazar discussion, maybe I Just read this

38:08

Deuteronomy chapter 18 Starting verse 9 when you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you you shall not learn to follow the abominable

38:15

Practices of those nations there should not be found among you and who burns the son or his daughter as an offering anyone who practice divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a

38:29

Necromancer or one who inquires of the dead for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord and Because of these abominations the

38:36

Lord your God is driving them out before you you should be blameless before the Lord your God for these Nations, which you are about to dispossess listen to the fortune tellers and to Diviners diviners, but as for you the

38:48

Lord your God has not allowed you to do this So the point is is here you have this is ancient Israel.

38:53

This is like way far back This is the law of God given to God's people and you've got warning again against the practices of those foreign those other nations fortune tellers people who communicate with the other side

39:05

Omens all those different things now, if you look at those practices and this is anybody can research this it's historic, right?

39:11

It's not even difficult and it's still practiced today. They would actually have rituals and Practices that got them into an altered state of consciousness

39:20

To be able to communicate to tell somebody an omen or to fortune -tell those sorts of things

39:25

It's just essentially ancient witchcraft, but it's not witchcraft, you know where someone just sits there and sort of goes

39:30

Let me think for a second here. There's always more to it. There's a ritual there is taking in of drugs and different herbs and and and Different things to actually get them into a state of consciousness where they actually can communicate

39:43

So God warns them against trying to inquire of the dead

39:50

Inquiring of the dead now, they saw it as I'm communicating with a dead ancestor now in the modern in a modern context

39:57

It's it's it's devoid of the I'm trying to talk to a dead ancestor And it's what

40:03

I'm just trying to speak to somebody from the other side, right? I'm trying to speak to somebody from another dimension.

40:08

I've unwittingly discovered that this thing. I didn't think existed which was something Supernatural or if you're a materialist something that's not like me

40:18

Mm -hmm, and now I want to talk to it more and then even like I said, it's now advertised as a good thing right because by talking to it, you can actually heal yourself of addictions and Move past trauma and things like that.

40:35

I mean you did ask what what is DMT? I had never heard of it until I heard you guys talking about it.

40:41

So it's a DMT stands for the methyl dimethyltryptamine

40:47

And it's I believe it's in the way that we get it it's synthesized through plants people say that there is some debate

40:54

I think as to whether DMT Exists in us. Okay.

41:00

Apparently there was some Research done that showed that the pineal gland of rats produced

41:11

This chemical and so they were suggesting that that's also the case with humans. And so I think the main thing is that I've personally heard that it does it our body does produce it

41:26

But then I've heard some people say that it doesn't so I'm not right 100 % sure about the same Complicated. Yeah, but um, basically the basic idea is that when you it's it's a chemical that floods your body when you die

41:37

Okay And I Wouldn't know what that feels like but apparently some people do so I think we synthesize it from plants that have it

41:49

That's how like we get it for consumption. Okay DMT you smoke

41:55

Ayahuasca like you can't there's some I don't know all the science behind it, but something about it like we can't digest it

42:02

Usually people drink it comes in like a drink form. And so it it's synthesized a different way because Ayahuasca, I Don't know.

42:11

There's like it's different but it is technically it's the same thing It's just it it synthesized and it operates like a different way in your body

42:20

Ayahuasca tends to last long periods of time also and DMT you smoke it and it's like yeah, it's like a shorter

42:28

And you take it to go on a trip Yeah, and what it's what it's turned into is because people have had interactions with stuff seemingly from the other side a lot of people

42:38

Would say aliens obviously not everyone would say that it's aliens and and one thing Alex Jones Talks about with Joe Rogan and I think elsewhere as he talks about how people who have had these experience

42:48

Experiences on DMT when they enter into that realm. They always have the same

42:55

Characterization of what's on the other side or a same description of what they see in terms of elf like creatures with horns

43:03

Those sorts of things like it's a pretty common Description of what they're actually viewing and there's even stories of like say a group of 15 or 20 people

43:12

I might get the number wrong on this but like 15 or 20 people that take DMT or Ayahuasca and they go and they actually all have a

43:22

Unified experience experience where they saw exactly the same thing. They reported the same

43:27

Descriptions and those sorts of things, but they all had taken the drug individually and all saw the same thing

43:34

Which was which I thought was was fascinating to me, right? I just I'll end with this I want to make sure

43:40

I throw it in there and joy. I hope I didn't cut you off. Oh, no Okay. All right, so you mentioned pharmakia sorcery.

43:45

That's what drug so in the New Testament the Apostle Paul Jewish he knows the law of God.

43:52

He mentions the works of the flesh, right? We know the famous passage Galatians 5 now the works of the flesh are evident sexual morality impurity sensuality

43:59

Idolatry sorcery enmity strife jealousy fits of anger rivalries dissensions divisions

44:04

The word sorcery there in Galatians 5 is rendered differently a lot of English translations. The King James calls it witchcraft.

44:11

Mm -hmm The word sorcery comes from the Greek word pharmakia from with pharmakia where we get

44:17

Pharmacy and essentially just refers to drugs, but you can't this isn't the biblical worldview.

44:23

You're not allowed to take drugs That's not the biblical worldview And that's not what Paul is warning against here because God does tell like say

44:30

Timothy like drink a little wine You know for your for your sickness like it's possible. Yes to take things and God Which clear a biblical worldview you can take drugs to help you with ailments and that's not enjoy your

44:43

Advil That's not antithetical to the Christian worldview so what Paul is referring to here to in pharmakia is that's why it's rendered sorcery or Witchcraft because it's not the pharmakia in terms of taking a drug for a headache

44:57

Right or taking a pill because of pain, you know related to surgery or something like that, right?

45:02

We're talking about pharmakia witchcraft sorcery the kind of thing where people would in this pagan society take drugs to Communicate with the other side or get into an altered state of consciousness yeah, and one of the things too is that I mean there's different people that are prominent in you in ufology and that a

45:21

Lot of these things that he was talking with that Jeff's talking about with like pharmakia and these aspects of like new age practice and occultism

45:27

It always goes hand in hand almost just multiple times with people who are into UFOs and aliens

45:33

So you were sharing too in the prep. I listened to some of his talks. It was dr Stephen Greer and some of his talks about encounters like with UFOs and his initial

45:42

Experience of why he got into that his whole movement that he's doing if you look at his lectures online Was the fact that he had a near -death experience and it essentially like was a private revelation where he was like He was basically like out on some sort of astral plane and he got this idea or revelation that we're all part of this universal collective consciousness and so all of his science and everything that he's doing and everything he's

46:06

Propagating with science that he's a smart guy, too all of that comes from a worldview that has to do with a lot of different new age and Occultism and talking about him him like leaving his body and going along the astral planes, but it goes right along with what he's doing

46:22

So I mentioned today. Yeah, just while you're describing that it's interesting to me. I said it in the beginning

46:28

There's nothing new under the Sun, right? Yeah, so we can talk about in 21st century a new spin on all these things But what do we just we're resurrecting ancient occultic pagan beliefs.

46:37

Yeah, right It's the same completely the same nonsense that Moses is directing giving directives against in Deuteronomy 18 it had a different form in terms of right.

46:48

Well, you're talking to your ancestors So you're talking to this or whatever, you know, you're taking this to get into all state of consciousness to communicate with that side

46:55

But it's this whole other perspective of life and reality To what is actually true and by revelation of God in the 21st century, it's got a cool spin on it

47:04

It's got skinny jeans and silver hair. It's got you know, I'm saying it's like it's like no, bro We're just talking to like entities from another dimension.

47:10

They've flown here from across galaxies and like is that you know Do you want to get demons cuz that's how you get? You bring up Stephen Greer He is is he like the head of the serious disclosure or so?

47:24

So if you watch the documentary that the serious disclosure made about their

47:29

Like UFO sightings their ship sightings in the documentary you see them it like it starts out very normal He's talking about the military industrial complex and how very normal Tracking with him and then all of a sudden he's like and then there are these aliens

47:50

Watching us and and when things like don't go the right way They kind of step in and you're like, okay

48:00

Almost immediately him and his Cohort they drive out into the middle of the desert.

48:07

They're meditating They have little shrines with candles on them And then they set up cameras pointed at the sky and they see ships

48:15

UFOs flying around little balls of light They're praying to a god.

48:21

They're praying to a god and then a god shows up Like I'm not debating whether what they're seeing or is real.

48:28

So you're saying you saw something that appeared like an angel of light So it almost you would think like it

48:39

I don't know I think maybe sometimes Christians think that it's a little bit more hidden But within the first 15 minutes of this documentary

48:47

I was like I'm looking at a shrine in the desert right now, right? It's praying to a shrine right now, right?

48:54

Okay, not Colton. You went looking for something something showed up, right? That is not cultish at all

49:03

It's almost like people and maybe we can end on this and save the the air if it the one thing for next I think we're running out of tape here.

49:09

But um, I I just think it's interesting because People act so pompous and Arrogant today to act like oh, we're in the know now with technology and communication with the other side and DMT Like now we're really learning about the universe and it's like bro.

49:23

This is this is so old It's so old and God already talked about it like the

49:29

Christian worldview already has a leg up on the world Hey, God's been talking about this for a long time.

49:35

He's told the story over and over and over again You're just now catching up bro, right? Like you're just now getting to it

49:43

Like you're just now get catching up with with a biblical story has always told us

49:49

As you're trying to sell us this new perspective. We already know about this. Yeah, we already have ultimately we all are new here

49:55

Yeah, like are you new here? Yes compared to God. Yes He's already told the story over and over again, and you're just you're just putting a new

50:05

Flavor on it and I think that's why I keep saying that there's nothing new under the Sun We have to as Christians go back to the

50:11

Word of God and say how do we actually Reference this or refer to it considering God's revelation and his self -disclosure.

50:18

I know it appears a little different It's got a little new flavor to it You know It's got technology stuff and bone scanners and DMT and Bob Lazar and area 51 and government

50:29

Agencies and skull and bones, but you go, but what's the what's the like the nuts and bolts of it? Oh it's about communicating with the other side and these other entities to get information from them and I do find it interesting that people

50:40

Are coming back with like I listen to so many stories of DMT the last couple of weeks I got sick of it, but I did find it interesting over and over and over again.

50:47

I would wait for it I'd go there it is I'm driving my car going and there it is and I would go to the next one and go and there it is

50:54

It would a person go. Yeah, and the one thing that was uncomfortable like is in this one This is literally one guy was like this the whole time

51:00

He's like and then the one experience one time this one time It was like it was like good the first second or third time

51:05

But then it started to get sort of like I don't know like nefarious Like they were it got it started to get like kind of creepy in there where they they kind of like let me know another

51:15

Side to them. I didn't see the first two times. That was real gentle kind of like collect Joe Biden and then it started But I just thought it was funny how it always seemed to land on like and then they showed me who they really were

51:30

It started to scare me. Ah That's what they were saying. And that's what I started to scare me with ayahuasca

51:37

I really do, you know people get freed of their addiction and I'm like and then what yeah, right, you know, like, okay, so someone did a remote a remote healing on you and Then what yeah, like you're telling me one part of the story.

51:53

Did you go back? Did you try again? Where are we at, you know, and this is a great example just to wrap up We've talked this about this on one of our previous episodes defecting from Bethel Like we need to know that while there are signs and miracles the

52:07

Bible talks about that There are good signs miracles And but there's also signs miracles and healings that do not come from God and we need to be able to have the wisdom to decipher between the two so this is hopefully has been like a really good introduction to Discussing really

52:22

Baba's are and the UFO phenomenon. Hopefully this lays a good foundation. I cannot wait I can't wait for the next one because all of us have been waiting for part two

52:30

Yeah, like yes, this is interesting, but the next part. Yeah, this is For part two like part two is what we all wanted to get to right away

52:37

But we know that this was an important element to lay down first Yes And again, if you guys we obviously we have joy and summer with us today

52:43

Check out their podcast at sheologians or check them out on Instagram and they have you her and I wash

52:52

Here we go spread rumors of blogging like she loves to take an eye wash We have

52:57

Jeff and Jerry with us today you can check out their show cultish We don't we don't invite

53:07

Jeff on to do the she's and her I can mess them up Charming I Really like your

53:16

DMT impression So, yeah, we're gonna be back next week with more alien talk, yes

53:25

Yeah, I can't wait all sorts of stuffs to go ahead and I like share this episode leave us a great review or a one -star

53:32

Review whatever you want to do either way. We're just gonna keep on talking and apologize.