Revival Forum Interview — Leonard Ravenhill

The Church’s Greatest Need: Returning to God

What's the greatest need in the church today as you would see it from what you've observed and I'm sure if we digested some of your books that we may have insight into it. But what would you perceive brother Ravenhill to be the greatest need in the church in America.

Specifically today? I won't give you my opinion. I'll give you a Bible opinion from Jeremiah chapter 2 verse 13. My people have committed two evils. They forsaken me the fountain of living waters and hewn them out.

Cisterns. Broken cisterns that can hold no water. It's amazing to me when every pastor that comes oh I'm in a mega church. You know we get 4 ,000 Sunday morning got nothing to do with your church. Every church in America nearly is filled Sunday morning.

The Death of the Prayer Meeting

How many people do you have in your prayer meeting. The prayer meeting has almost died. Not just in Presbyterian churches but in Pentecostal churches. In Baptist churches I have a prayer meeting Thursday morning for for pastors about 20 come some come 200 miles some come 300 miles round trip.

And the last five or six weeks we've all ended up on the floor in tears praying for one thing. Revival. Nobody's praying for his church. I believe the spiritual condition of America at this moment is lower than it was in the revival of the 1700s with Jonathan Edwards.

We forsaken God. Particularly we've forsaken the prayer meeting. What would happen if you had a choir like say you have a first Baptist or somewhere I first Baptist in Dallas or Good Brothers First Baptist Church in Atlanta.

I stayed there a month once. You're about 200 people in the choir. What if only 10 turned up for choir rehearsal on Friday night. Do you think you might get the resignation of the choir master but supposing a guy with 26 ,000 members had 10 come to the prayer meeting.

He'd die of shock. You see we have had people last just a year ago. Now we finished our 500th prayer meeting every Friday night and it was a prayer meeting in most churches. Now the preacher preaches Sunday morning Sunday night and Wednesday night.

Forget it. One of the young pastor that comes to us he got moved by the power of God. He went to his church and said look I'm gonna preach Sunday morning Sunday night but not Wednesday night. We're gonna pray.

He's in a country church. He went from 60 Wednesday night to six. They don't want to pray. We had a prayer meeting where people drove four five and six hours and there were people that came and they belong to famous churches in in California.

And they came over and said look we know why God's brought us in this area. We need to learn to pray. We went to a very popular church. It's attended by dozens hundreds of film stars and others. But there's no prayer life there.

But you know what happened when they come three or four times they quit. You know why. Because we had men they used to mumble in their prayers and it pleased God to educate them in the spirit. And I would go on Wednesday night.

I go Friday night. There was one in full blooded American Indian. He was dying in the gutter snow falling on him. He was a victim of drugs and drink and God awakened him. He got wonderfully saved and he got an anointing in prayer to hear that man pray for the American Indians.

They're the most neglected people in America today. And and the Indians somehow don't go after them. You can't go on the reservations. They kill you all. They say listen you stole our land you stole our oil.

You stole our mineral rights. You stole our fishing rights. Get out of here. And I've told him stay with it. Stay to your people with your people. Don't let somebody else wear your crown. You see some of us we were walking around eternity and God was going to put a crown on my head and I didn't do the job.

So he passes it to Dale. He's gonna wear it for a billion years every time I see him. I said that should have been my crown but that's my fault. It's not the devil's fault. No man take thy crown. That's that's a warning against deacons.

But anyhow not any man take your crown. God has given you a job. Do it. If you die that's what it takes.

Targeted Intercession and Covenant Prayer

Brother Leonard what is the nature and the content and the direction of those prayer meetings for the average lay person who has not been able to attend where do you begin what do you pray for what do you target what happens in those prayer meetings that are so unusual and what are the kinds of prayer meetings that we need to start having in our churches.

We have different target I call it target praying. For instance one week we pray for all the husbands of the wives or fathers of the children who are there whose daddies were not saved maybe not even church member.

We concentrate on unsaved fathers unsaved husbands. Another time we concentrate on teenagers. You see there's something about covenanting in prayer. I went to Dr. Toto's church thank you. And I stayed there for two weeks and I had the privilege of praying with him.

It's a wonderful man. He wasn't the greatest preacher I've ever heard. We had an intimacy with God like nobody else. And I remember one day he said Len don't let anybody diminish your appetite or zeal for prayer.

He said I'll tell you what happened in World War One. The finest young men in our in our church went to war. They were drafted 30 of them and we covenanted with their parents and their wives. We covenanted in prayer that not one of those men would get killed or seriously injured.

And every man came back. The only one that was lame was his own son. But he said if we can covenant in prayer like that. Why can't you covenant in prayer in your churches. Not one of our girls in our churches is going to get pregnant.

Not one of our boys is going to go in to drink. We're not just going to raise nice healthy children. We don't want to do more than that. We want to produce spiritual offspring. And the reason those superstars that came to our prayer meetings didn't continue.

Well they heard men that were praying with anointing. Again they heard this fellow crying with tears for the different tribes in America. It is astounding that a what two and a quarter American Indians.

Where's David Brainerd today. There isn't a Brainerd there. How do we.

Revival Prayer Against Theological Fatalism

Have how do we have a right to pray for revival when in the 20th century there are so many people who believe theologically that things are just going to get worse and worse and worse and God certainly is not going to send a revival.

So why are you wasting your time praying that God will send one. Well you.

Get a nucleus of people. You get together and talk with the deacons and others. But it says here they're forsaken me. So what. How many of you deacons come to prayer meetings. One night I was standing on the platform with Charles Stanley.

There were maybe over a thousand people there. I think he has 50 deacons and I said Charles where are your 50 deacons tonight. He said well I can count 15. I said well fire the rest. What did they do in the upper room when the Holy Ghost came.

They gave themselves continually to fundraising. Did they. What did they do. Give ourselves continually to prayer. I like the figure I'm gonna speak maybe one day. I think Hannah is the best type of an intercessor that I know that all the qualifications she had grief she suffered she mocked and and yet year by year it wasn't once they scorned her but when she got pregnant she didn't care.

A hill of beans about anybody. Well let me say this too. I think there's a danger of seeking revival to justify my ministry. To prove where the best people in town mentioned it with Paul this morning.

What does it say. The Lord whom you seek. We're not seeking him. We're seeking revival. We're seeking healing. We're seeking miracles. It's not that we need. If we get God we get all that's needed. And revival is when God comes down.

Revival as God’s Coming and the Church’s Transformation

Picked up the book for me. Please. Here's a little book. I hope you'll all get it's come down Lord. It's a good book. Of course it's from England but apart from that get a copy if you can. It's published by it's published by Banner of Truth.

But I mount this page 23. Now this is revival. I think revival is the most prostituted word that we have in our vocabulary today. Either revival or faith. We don't know much about either. Revival stops the traffic as Dave Tozer used to say Leonard when revival comes it it changes the moral climate of a community.

Taverns closed down nightclubs closed down. It's I mean there's a war going on now dear God if everyone needs one a whole armor of God. It's today. How many of you may know the book. The whole armor of God.

By girl. Do you have it. Let me see your hands. Oh good. Only two out of all of you. It's a wonderful book. It's 1130 pages. It's $36. We can send the announcement address. We get it for 18. It was written like most of the classics in the 1600s and it's the most sterling.

I gave Wilkinson a copy of that five years ago when I came back he said hey while you're at it we had a vacation in the Bahamas. We should be there now. We got a free flight and the free holidays. But this glorious atmosphere here you know where you can freeze every night is more.

Attractive. So how do you address the people who say that we are living in a day and age where everything is getting worse and worse and worse. There is no way God's gonna send revival. Let's hang on for dear life and pray for the rapture.

But you have no right to believe and to storm the throne of heaven in faith believing that God is gonna send a revival. He tells you in the Bible things are gonna get worse and worse. How do you answer those people.

Well I.

Answered it this week this way. When the world population was five million did God love it. Yes. Does he love it less. When it's five billion. If God isn't willing that any should perish. When it's five million is he more willing that many should perish.

Now you see the trouble in the world today the stagnation the the moral desolation in America and the stagnation America is not due to the strength of humanism. It's because of the weakness of evangelism.

Spiritual Deadness and the Failure of Easy Conversion

People don't get born again. When they come to the altar they leave it. They come down and they leave it down. They're not born. People can't be born in five minutes. Put off ten million sins and transgressions and violations of the law of God.

They can't change a way of life. Put off the old man. Put on the new man by just standing there in tears. And I told you last night when I heard that guy say on TV come forward. It'll only take a few minutes.

I went to bed and cried. I said he's the leading evangelist in America. Telling people who are dead in trespasses they're not bad. They're dead. The prodigal didn't say my son is bad. He says he's dead.

It's no fun to look on a congregation. Maybe I said yesterday a hundred years ago that great that great art critic in England. What was his name. John John Ruskin said preaching is 30 minutes to raise the dead.

I thought that was facetious. It's scriptural. All those lovely people you have executive people deacons nice people wealthy people poor people hippies yuppies. What have you got there. They are. They're dead.

And we're the ones that transmit life. But dear brother I believe we're gonna see a Pentecost that we love Pentecost. Pentecost. I'll tell you what. Nobody's gonna stick his name on it. Swaggart's had his chance to evangelize the world.

Messed it up all the rubbers. They've got millions of dollars. What have they done. They've brought disgrace to the name. People ridicule it but God is a jealous God. God's gonna raise up men. I pray for Romania and behind the anchor on every day of my life.

People want to tell me now that God's bypassed America. Don't waste your time. Why was it as dead in the days of Jonathan Edwards. What is revival. Well I think was an old America. I think I think was he.

And bounce said that Ian bounce is the breath of God on a situation that threatens to become a corpse. We're very near death in America. There's no time for a new Reformation in a denomination is gonna raise up new men with new vision.

I want to preach on vision tonight God willing. And we've got to have vision and passion. You got. God's got to upset our whole schedules our lifestyle our way of eating our way of living our way of socializing in the church.

God help us. Sure you can get a hearty church. If you put a chicken supper before the prayer meeting they'll come for the chicken supper. You got the chickens. You'll drop the crowd because they're all chicken.

The Promise of a Coming Pentecost

But anyhow I believe if I didn't believe there's gonna be awakening. Okay. God has given me the privilege of knowing praying men. There's a little fellowship of people in a town called Zion Illinois. And it's still there.

There's one or two original people over there with Dowie. And I went there. They asked me to talk to the man. He's upstairs in bed. Normally he speaks with the mic to the congregation downstairs every morning.

You know what happened to him. I walked in. He thanked me. He said Mr. Hill you do me an honor. I've read your books. I said please don't say a word. My mother said if ever you go into royalty you never turn your back.

You my back pedal to the door as I want to thank you. You know that man Andrews. God called him to go to Israel and he mastered Hebrew. And when he got there God said go back he said. But people gave him a do.

As I say go back. Intercede for America. What did he do for 30 years. He prayed from 10 o 'clock in the night till 5 o 'clock in the morning by himself. When you talk about David Brin and I was I'm talking about our day.

I'm talking about when I talked with when they carried him his little wooden casket out of that room. It was the first time he'd been out of the house in 12 years. Never out of the house. How does a man retain his fire.

He's not only seen. Men are lost. Men are not merely lost in your church. The robbers the robbing God of the right to use their personality. They're robbing God of the right to use their time. They're robbing God the right to use their tongue.

Dear God. Saturday they come. They shout till their horse. They're frantic. On Saturday at the sports arena. They're frozen on Sunday. And here is a man he said listen I am NOT a bit weary. And this is a staggering thing to me.

He said mr. Rainer is gonna be an awakening before Jesus comes. And now you I forgot it till Martha remind me the other day he said there's gonna be a revival that will sweep 1 billion people into the kingdom of God.

Well that's a lot. But there are five billion in the world. Are the other four billion gonna hell. There's a man around the country now. I don't know. Man have you met Paul Cain yet. Well Paul I've ministered with him a few times lately.

He's an amazing man. He used to get 30 and 40 ,000 people in his meetings. He deputized for Bill Bunham and then he disappeared. I heard of him in 1950 when I first came to America. I didn't meet him till about 20 years after.

And then I met him recently and he said in a meeting we're in. He said God has revealed to me there's gonna be a moving of the Spirit of God. And what. And 1 billion people will be born again. And he mentioned your country.

Dear brother what do you call him son. He mentioned your country. Those other countries are in the belly of Russia now Latvia Estonia Lithuania. Dear God when I was a boy we had a family who should come from Estonia.

I think there were what about 10 in the family. They all played different instruments and they set our church on the fire. Well where did they disappear to. Dear God you say my church would never pray get some conditions from this brother about what's happening in their country.

You know the two most pleasant-looking men in the world right now are the two biggest enemies of the cross. One is the Pope and other that there is Gorbachev. And they fooled us. They fooled us. We may not have a collision with communism.

We love one with Romanism. It's a deadly enemy because it says Mary is called redemptrix and Mary is is a mediator before God. But going back to this there never has been a situation in the world as difficult as today.

We've never had all the cults that we have now. I see the nation's being squashed like this. This wall is moving in this way. It's cults this way. Wall is moving this way. It's the occult and these things are rampant.

My dear country of England again in the last 25 years they've closed 600 branch churches of the Church of England alone. Leave out the Methodists and others. But in the place of 600 churches we have now 600 mosques.

The greatest revival in the world right now is amongst the Muslims. Why. Because they're prepared to die. You can't scare them. We're prepared to die. Our folk are not prepared to live. Sure they'll come to a camp.

They think ride horses or have play tennis or some other thing. I know there's nothing wrong in that. But where's the passion. It's young men that see vision. I'm not trying to escape it. I want to tell you for God I'm in my 83rd year now.

I have a bigger fire burning in my belly if you like of my heart than ever in my life. And I'm determined by the grace of God to wage war. And I say I got young men coming 300 miles to our prayer meeting.

That's my consolation. I know that Manly is stirring people in his area. Bill in his area. Still God has a remnant. But the remnant is not enough. We've got to return to the old ways. The fire has to burn.

Prayer, Holiness, and the Recovery of Revival

Dear God the prayer meeting has to become the most attractive thing in the church. You fire the deacons if they. When I went to the last church I was here. Every deacon has to meet me half an hour before the service.

Any meeting Friday night we meet at nine o 'clock and pray to midnight. You tell me about Spurgeon. Paul was showing me a little book the other day. Yes sure is a great man of it. You know in all the 20 years he was in that church.

He never once made an altar call. You know what the deacons did for him. They went in the side room where he prayed and wept and groaned before God. Every time he went in the pulpit the deacons put their arms on his armpits and carried him to the door to get him on the platform.

When old lady that visited him knew him told me about his prayer life. It's amazing. And no man is greater than his prayer life. I don't care how many church members he has. Somebody told me that day you like a favorite verse.

I don't know. I'm jumping around a bit but you know I think the greatest on it. I don't have any doctorates either begged or borrowed or burned or anything else. I have no degrees. You can have 32 and still be frozen.

There's one thing I covet. I want to be one of the ten most wanted men in hell. I want the demons to say Jesus I know. And Ravenel I know Jesus I know. And Del I know. That's why the devil's opposed him.

Dear manly last night movie the tears. I was trying to come to the platform. I wish. But it is thereafter. I said you. And I have one thing in common when the Apostle Paul went in death's aft dear Lord my wife's been to my funeral half a dozen times and at my bedside lots of people like to see me die.

But I'm not gonna die. I'm gonna live. They actually threw a white sheet over me and the doctor said he won't last four minutes and I I was gonna die piously and I had my hands folded and he said he won't last for me.

I said you're talking about me. Then the doctor said you won't. He said by another 11 years from now you'll be crippled and paralyzed. Your back's broken your feet are broken your legs are broken. You'll be useless.

Well I may be useless but I'm still hanging on. But the thing is this. I've been privileged to share in prayer and I don't remember great pulpits. I've preached some of the great pulpits of the world.

I don't remember them. I've taught with great preachers but when men have let me pray with them I remember all of them. I can tell you how we pray. I remember manly at the what was National Conference we had in no when no when birth.

But no there was Bertha Smith was there. No Bertha Philadelphia. That night of prayer we had. We should have a night of prayer. We got in the bedroom and boy after about 10 minutes the door kept going out and I thought my I'm gonna be left by myself as usual.

And folk weren't going out. They were coming in. So I look around about six pairs of legs. The guys were under the bed the guys under the bed at that side and at this side. And we prayed till I don't know what.

Two or three in the morning. And somebody said God came down that night. Well that's where revival is born. You can't schedule it. The stupid thing we're gonna start a revival next Sunday night and finish there.

Who gives orders to the Holy Ghost sensitivity to the Spirit of God isn't there in the middle of the Welsh revival. And remember there's a guy 26 years of age and he's already prayed 13 years for revival.

They wouldn't allow people to photograph him. The greatest preachers in America in England were there at the time. William Booth was there. He left his office desk to go. Listen to this 26 year old guy.

The greatest Bible teaching the world was there. G Campbell Morgan. He left his office at Westminster and came to hear this young Welshman. FB Meyer came from the Baptist Church. They were all flocking to Wales to hear a man who was anointed in the Spirit of God.

He comes into a meeting the biggest hall in town at 800 seats. Everyone was packed an hour before time and in comes a young man. Everybody's waiting for him to come. There's one seat on the throne. He went to the front seat bowed his head and he prayed for three hours.

What do you mean. You think our congregation do that. They say he's fallen asleep for three hours until he felt the rich. And not. Then he stood up and preached for 15 minutes. The glory of God came down and it all happened.

Nobody dare leave the place. He went out at 10 o 'clock and prayed the whole night for the anointing for the next day. The people stayed till 2 and 3 in the morning. They did that week after week. You see we take our little revivals to South America.

What do you call him again. Swaggart went. He took the formula he had here. Turn it on at 6 turn it off at 7. It didn't do a thing. It failed because it was American. No because it wasn't biblical. Another big shot did the same thing.

But the failures having revival in South America. Now. I was reading one report. It said they go to a meeting. It starts Wednesday Wednesday night Thursday Friday night. The people particularly teenagers pray the whole night through pray all day Saturday.

Pray all Saturday night into Sunday. And the glory of God fills the place. You see you've got to get an appetite. You know the nitty-gritty of the whole thing. Is this. We don't know God. We don't know God.

We know theology. We know about him. Why did Jesus come into the world to save sinners. That's not what Jesus said. What did Jesus says. I'm come that they may know thee every man that comes in my office and I get them worldwide.

I don't know why. But they come and I say first tell me do you know God. Well I have a degree. I didn't ask you about that. Do you know God. When was your last encounter with God. When we were last prostrate in his presence.

When did you last sit spellbound at his majesty. You don't know God. Because we don't know God. We don't have to worship. We don't have to enter into his presence. We're content to know a few theological shibboleths that other people have taught us.

Dear God. One of the leading men in the Southern Baptist Church a very dear friend of yours. I won't give you a clue after that my dear brother he said to me recently said listen forget our seminaries.

There's no anointing in them. Those professors are teaching that let lessons on Romans they taught ten years ago. You can shake the dust off them. And every year they go back and saying the same thing.

Romans is chapter 1 and then chapters 8 to 11 and chapters 2 to 2 para can say how can men sit and hear the word of the living God and not catch fire. Our God is a consuming fire. I hope I don't know.

Spiritual Maturity and Faith That Endures

What do I preach tonight. When I'll preach tomorrow. Two of the day after I have two more times. So maybe I'll get to preach on the incandescent man. I like that. And then on the indestructible man you see the blessed word of God.

It torpedoes us. It says Elias was a man of like passion. Have you noticed so often God says I look for a man. Have you noticed in the middle of his great the greatest poem ever written on love. 1 Corinthians 13 has 13 verses.

He suddenly stops talking about love. And he says when I became a man what does he mean. Tell me manly think it over. When did he become a man. What does he mean. When did he step out of spiritual infancy.

When did his parents move out of spiritual immaturity. When did that vision come. I want to preach on him one day before I go. I hope yeah. When you were talking last night about Hebrews 11 you know I read that chapters I tell you when I read Hebrews 11 I follow my place because not one person in Hebrews 11 never had a Bible.

And when I've read all about achievements I'd like you to preach on this sometime manly. There's a verse there that staggers me and it says what it says. They did by faith subdued kingdoms wrought righteousness obtained promises stopped the mouths of lions.

And then one verse says not accepting deliverance. What does it mean. I'd rather die than fail Christ. You can't imagine it can you. There's a woman standing over there feeding a baby. And the judge says to a look that little preacher.

You take three grains of incense to that at the feet of Caesar. And all you do is say Caesar is Lord. You can go back to your darling wife and precious baby. If not those lions are going to release them.

The next thing you'll find a lion chewing your baby up. Another one tearing the breasts of your wife. You love your wife. You tell me you're gonna love a God. You can't see to the wife. And he stands there and watches it.

We've forgotten all about that. There's a book called fair sunshine. It's about the young men that were put to death in Scotland until 1665. And as you read them waving their hands and saying have three more days before I see the king in his beauty.

You see what our generation of preachers have managed to do. We failed to make sin diabolical. We've failed to make sin offensive. And we failed to make sin attractive at Christ attractive. You know the only time you can sing the hymn of Wesley thou all Christ art all I want.

The only time you can say Christ is all I need is when Christ is all you have. We're propped up with everything. Our refrigerators are full. I don't have many clothes but I have at least. I have two suits at least.

And I have at least two pair of shoes. I'm only one preacher's place. He had 35 sportscoats and 25 pairs of shoes in nearly as many books. Does it. Does the devil care. What we have all he's worried about is that you catch fire.

And then your church catches fire. Another thing I need to say this. I've gone round a bit. I know. But I've got to get wound up and say what I want to say. You see the great revivals of Methodism were not in buildings.

They were in the streets. The Salvation Army set England on fire. Wow. Not by buildings. They the Bishop of Gloucester said don't ever let John Wesley or Charles Wesley in any of our churches. They were both certified men of impeccable morality scholars read the Hebrew and Greek.

Don't let them in the churches. And don't let that man George Whitfield in the church at all. Tony was a bishop at that time. Nobody knows. Don't care a hill of beans. But we know the men that got kicked out.

You know some of you guys if you're faithful to be kicked out at least that's my prayer. I pray you don't get fired for being fired. But God's gonna do it. Don't don't lose sight of that with all I've rambled on.

Biblical Theology, Holiness, and the Centrality of Christ

You see God use the same material before they were flesh and blood. Many of them are fallible. Paul was saying this morning. Some of them made great mistakes. But God looks on the heart. And they were able to see great movings of the Spirit of God.

America is harder today than she's ever been. We know the cabinet anymore. Nobody commits adultery. Now they just have an affair. There's no fornication. It's premarital sex. Nobody's messing with spiritism.

It's just channeling. We've taken the sting out of all the words. We don't talk about hell. We've got to get back to biblical theology unless we've got to do the essential thing Jesus says. I if I be lifted up.

We're not preaching Christ. We're preaching drugs. We're preaching abortion. We're preaching crime. We're not preaching Christ our fathers. I've been reading very much lately again the well part of the apostolic fathers and the men up in the Puritans and the other people in that area how they exalted Christ.

It was Christ first Christ last. You see we've lost sight of the majesty and holiness of God. We don't tiptoe out of the sanctuary subdued by God's all-mightiness and power and mercy. It's just a ritual.

It's a formality. People know why. We're going to start now. We're going to start. But let's go back to the main issue again. The main issue. The chaster vibrate boy. If I live within a hundred miles of this place I'll be here every.

I've been here every week at least once to pray with these guys. I wouldn't pray in the day when it's coming to my nine o 'clock till three in the morning and see how men would come. They'll come. There's nothing more attractive on this earth than fire.

Whether it's physical or spiritual. Fire is the most attractive. Our God is a consuming fire. And the only answer to.

Hellfire is Holy Ghost fire. Brother Leonard let me ask you another question and you make interviews very easy. This is my third question. Now what do you believe is the greatest hindrance to genuine revival in the church here in.

The Greatest Hindrance: Shallow Evangelism

The West the number one hindrance to revival in America is evangelism. We made it easy for people to come forward and say a little prayer and go out. Stop them and ask. Ask. You ask teenagers in your church.

Number one. I you say yes. From what. Oh from hell. I you say from lust. I you say from pride. They don't know. Talk about the witness of the spirit that John Wesley preached on. More than anything else I don't know you're talking about.

They've seen blessed assurance. And they've no assurance. The hindrance number one is we've made it so easy for people to come forward. They go out at the door. I watched some recently. They had to get out of the door.

They were lighting cigarettes. They won't go in home under anguish. Do not. Dear what's-his-name again Spurgeon said when he was 15 he was under conviction of sin for weeks and weeks and weeks. He couldn't sleep.

He couldn't eat. When do you get conviction like that. Dear God. Our people. They're a bit upset in the meeting. They go out. They go back to sin. They go back and sit before TV till midnight. There's no concern.

There has to come an awakening in the church to the peril. Those loved ones you're at the end of the table. They don't go to church. No they're going to hell. Why don't you say it. My boys are good boys.

Quarterback who cares a hell of beans. It's quarterback. A fullback. Any other back. Where are your children. What's your ambition for your boy. I three boys. Two of them the two of the best preach in America today.

The other ones there the head of one the new section in that multi-million dollar what do you call it now. Smithsonian Museum. And and these boys have. They got prayer lives. Two of them it got tremendous prayer lives.