Are Women As Courageous As Men?

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You know, it seems like Paul understands this to like act like men, you know, I think if I were to just go out in public and say to someone, you know,

00:10

Hey, act like a man, they would probably respond or if a woman was near, they'd probably say, well, what, what is that supposed to mean?

00:19

Cause they, because they know what I'm saying. Morning, the following message may be offensive to some audiences.

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01:53

Welcome to Bible bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.

01:59

We're your host Harrison Kerrig and pastor Tim Mullett. And today we'll answer the age old question, are women as courageous as men?

02:08

And, uh, you know, this is one of those questions, Tim, that for whatever reason, you know, I guess we just have a knack for doing this, but it feels like a very offensive question to ask.

02:19

Like if I were, if I were to just go out on the street, you know, and ask random, you know, random men and random women, hey, are women just as courageous as men?

02:31

I, I would probably, you know, brace myself for dirty looks and, you know, sarcastic remarks that are, that essentially boil down to, well, obviously, you know, like, why are you even asking that question?

02:44

That's as, that's as obvious as, you know, two plus two equals four, which is, I guess, apparently that's a racist thing to mention now, but we won't get into all that.

02:55

But it does feel like a, uh, it does feel like a very offensive question to even ask.

03:02

And, and, you know, you're, you're going to get a lot of pushback that essentially boils down to, obviously they're just as courageous as men.

03:09

Honestly, they're probably more courageous than men in a lot of ways. And, and that seems to be sort of the, you know, a lot of, a lot of people that we've asked this question to, they, they had that kind of response.

03:22

Um, there was definitely, there was like a, well, that actually they're more courageous than men actually, you know?

03:29

So, so, uh, what's the deal with that, Tim? Why, why is this such a, uh, why is this such an offensive, you know, an offensive question to even because I'm laughing at it.

03:43

That means that because you're laughing, that's why it's offensive. And, you know, it's, it's funny too, because it's like, well, it's just a question you can just, you can just say, yes, they are as correct.

03:57

You can just say yes. You know? So it's like even, even merely challenging the idea is offensive.

04:05

So why, why is that? Uh, well, so yeah, there's a lot of things going on here.

04:10

I mean, I mean, one of the things that's going on is it's like the most obvious reality in all the universe.

04:15

Like you can empirically verify this reality. I guess one of the easiest, uh, most empirically verified viable realities to actually prove that exist, that men are like way more courageous than women.

04:31

I mean, like, and it's not even close. I mean, it's like four or five, maybe 10 times as courageous as women. It's like, it's like so imbalanced in terms of this is a strength of men.

04:42

So like reality would like a test to this in a variety of ways. You can just like, there's any number of objective scientific tests or experiments you could do to prove this very point the same way that like, um, with strength, like physical strength, like the fact that men in general are stronger than women is one of the most easily verifiable like propositions that you can possibly imagine.

05:05

But then what's happening is like, as I've tried to point this out, um, typically the way

05:10

I pointed out online in particular, where, you know, I do this online, but then I do this with, um, people in real life and, and I know that this is one of those topics that will get people riled up and I, you know, nevertheless

05:23

I persist, you know, and I just, I boldly go where, you know, angels dare to tread, um, on this one, you know, and so, um, but like,

05:32

I know that people are going to get mad at it and I could care less that they get mad at it, like I'm going to say it, you know, and I say it as much as I can just to, you know, and not because I'm trying to get under their skin, but because I'm trying to help them to see something that like, it's so obvious that they are, um, actively suppressing, you know, as far as this goes.

05:51

But then typically the way I do it is I'll, um, I'll say something along the lines of like strength is a domain of men and beauty is the domain of women and like strength is a domain of men.

06:01

Like that's true in terms of like physical strength and mental strength. Okay. So what courage actually is, is courage is that basically the strength, like mental strength needed to face difficulties or dangers, um, with, you know, confidence and resolution.

06:17

Right. And so like, that's what courage actually is, is like mental strength. Right. So men are physically stronger than women, but then like, when you're talking about courage, you're talking about mental strength and what typically happens is that like, particularly in circles that are more patriarchal, like, the ones

06:34

I'm normally in, uh, like in egalitarian circles, it's like a circus, man. It's just like, uh, like if I were to say that men, like men are stronger than women and men are more courageous than women, they will absolutely like lose their mind in a dumpster fire of offense.

06:49

Like they will literally light their hair on fire and scream, you know, as if I've uttered absolute blasphemy.

06:55

And most of it's like, like in more egalitarian circles, it's, they'll disagree with both.

07:01

Right. Because they can't handle like generalities at all. Like they hate, they love, like they'll point out like the one strong woman who is weak, uh, stronger than like the one weak guy they know.

07:12

Uh, but then, and think that they've like proved something, but then in more patriarchal kind of circles, what generally happens is they'll let the men is stronger than women go.

07:21

But the courage one is the one that like, like gets them really mad. Like, and they'll get really, really, like really like mad about this.

07:28

And I think this is kind of like a aspect of internalized feminism that is, um, that I'm like intentionally setting off just to prove a point.

07:37

Okay. And so, so the courage thing is like a very hard sell for a lot of people.

07:43

Like, uh, even people who are more like male and female roles are real. That like the courage part is really, really hard sell.

07:52

And the reason why it gets very obvious why this is a hard sell, it's a hard sell because, I mean, this is what we tell women, like, you know, we're, we're, we're brainwashed in our society to tell women you're strong and courageous.

08:05

Right. Yeah. Like, that's what we say like over and over and over again, slay queen, you're a strong, powerful

08:10

African -American woman, you know, like you're strong. You're all right.

08:15

So, but what happens in like more patriarchal kind of circles, like, is that like, they've like, people have learned that like, okay, women are actually the weaker vessel and they accept that.

08:27

Right. So they don't fight at that point. But then this like, uh, courage part is like an aspect of internalized feminism, essentially to where like that triggers them because, and they don't even know why, like it triggers them.

08:40

They just, they've, they've adopted the assumptions essentially of, uh, feminism and egalitarianism at that point.

08:45

And they haven't thought through what they're reacting to. And so it feels like utter blasphemy, like when you say that, but then like, as I've said,

08:53

I mean, there's just one of those obvious, like empirically verifiable, easily verified realities in the world.

08:59

Every guy knows the truth of this. Like it is just like, like whether or not a guy's allowed to say it, like most standard red blooded men know exactly the right answer to this question.

09:12

Uh, and it's just like painfully overwhelmingly obvious. Uh, and it's an obvious reality that's like impressed upon them almost every day of dwelling with their wife.

09:21

I mean, isn't, you know, I remember, um, when a lot of my, when a lot of my friends were getting married, one of the jokes that you kind of always said you're going to include in your, in your vows, you know, was the, the, uh, the girl was, would always joke something about like, you know, you need to promise to take care of me and provide for me and, you know, kill all the spiders for me, you know, and, and they're joking about that.

09:49

Right. But then the reason that's a funny joke is because it's rooted in a certain kind of truth, right?

09:56

Like, so, so like in my house, I actually am, I actually am the one who kills all the spiders, you know, and, and what, or try, you know, traps things or whatever, just because like,

10:09

I'm not going to just absolutely lose my mind when I see it. Right. right.

10:14

So my, yeah, I mean the most women, you know, like you can test this like empirically, you can empirically verify this and test it just by the presence of a mouse in the house or a roach or something or a bug.

10:27

Like one of the first houses that we lived in, um, we, um, me and my wife, um, there's these, um, strange kind of cricket.

10:35

Um, they're kind of like cave crickets or something along those lines. Did you say cave crickets? I think they're like cave crickets, man, but like they got in the house somehow and these, um, these things,

10:45

I mean, they're just, they're ugly looking, they look like spiders, like, but like ugly spiders, like uglier than spiders, but then they like jump towards you.

10:53

So I think they're like cave, they're called cave crickets, I think. And they jump towards you because they're trying to get to a dark place and they don't have very good eyesight.

11:03

And so they actually jump at you really quick. Right. And so, I mean, my wife was freaked out.

11:11

Like, I mean, it was unsettling, you know, to see a thing barking at this little cricket barking at you and then trying to attack you, you know, but I mean,

11:21

I mean, man, like, um, vast majority of women, like you just see how they react to bugs or mice or, you know, anything in general.

11:30

And it's, it's very obvious that men have way more courage than women. Now I will say the one thing that, the one thing that still gets me is like when you have those big cockroaches and then, and then they start flying, that's, that's the one where it's like,

11:47

I have to, I have to, uh, you know, I still have to deal with it because it's here, but like, man,

11:53

I don't want to, I don't want to do that. That's nasty. But, but at the end of the day, you know, like you still have to, you still have to take care of even the ones that fly, unfortunately, and then just ask yourself later why

12:06

God ever made something as, as nasty and vile as a flying cockroach.

12:13

Well, this is, this is, I mean, so, you know, like anecdotally, I mean, you can, like, you can point out things like this and then there's going to be some smart butt woman who comes along and basically, you know, grew up on a farm or something and said, you know,

12:26

I, I never personally, I'm, I learned to get, get used to mice and, you know, so therefore

12:32

I represent the whole entire female gender, right? And like, those are just ridiculous women or whatever.

12:37

But I mean, like, this is not like, these kinds of things are not uncommon. I mean, when I was growing up, we used to work when

12:43

I was working at Chick -fil -A, like most of the men would just try to scare the women, like as a contest, you know, like,

12:52

I mean, I mean, these are young, you were young people at that time, but I mean, like, like they would come up with like complicated rituals because they knew women scare so easily.

13:01

Right. And so they would come up like at one time, like there's one girl who was like uniquely got scared all the time.

13:08

And so they came up with like creative ways to scare her. And so one time they climbed into one of the trash cans, right.

13:14

They took the trash bin out of it, climbed into that, and then they, they convinced her to throw some trash away in there and then someone reached her hand out and grabbed her hand from within the, the trash.

13:27

I mean, you could imagine like, just like utter terror screaming, you know, like, uh, standing behind the freezer, you know, like a door, she comes in, you know, like it,

13:37

I mean, it was just a contest, but I mean, like men just men intuitively know this. I mean, every time, like we live in Alabama and there's tornado season and.

13:47

You know, it's not men getting on all the group, me talking about giving like minute by minute updates about the tornadoes and things like that.

13:55

I mean, the men could care less, right. And we'd just ignore all of it. And, you know, wouldn't even care at all, except for the fact that their wives are reminding them about all the bad weather that's happening and everything else.

14:07

I mean, I, I remember my being in a Bible college and there was literally fires that were, um,

14:16

I was in LA and there was fires that were literally a few miles from my house. And, you know, when

14:21

I was going into my apartment, I could see the helicopters dropping the water, you know, from the fire that was visible from my apartment.

14:31

And I was so tired because I was given only getting a few hours of sleep that I was like, well, I need to go take a nap. You know,

14:36

I had my mom like calling me, you know, begging me like, please, you know, get out of there.

14:41

You're going to die. You're going to, it's like, mom, it's going the other way. You know, it's fine. I got to sleep, you know? But, but I mean, this is just like the general reality that like every man knows that women are.

14:54

Well, I mean, you know, isn't the, isn't the point in all this, at least partly that men are men are designed by God to be courageous and, and so much so that, you know, we're, we're prone to, you know, being, um, uh, being reckless.

15:13

Yeah. So like the, the saying, hold my beer. Right. It's not typically a saying associated with women, right?

15:23

It's the Florida man, man, the Florida man, you know, it's essentially, those are essentially things that are, well, not, you know, positive, typically they're not normally positive, um, statements, um, or stories that are followed up by the, those phrases, they are typically associated with men.

15:43

And there's, there must be a reason for that, right? I mean, definitely. I mean, so like, you know, if you want to empirically verify this reality, it's just watching just YouTube, go to YouTube and see the stupid kind of things that men do, you know, like there's all the hold my beer memes.

15:58

There's all the, you know, Florida man stuff. I mean, this is just one of the most easily verifiable, um, realities.

16:06

Like the, like it's so easy to verify, like in so many ways. I mean, there's so much empirical evidence.

16:12

I mean, I, you know, growing up, we would do some, we used to, um, make backyard wrestling videos and, and my mom would not go outside because she was like, she had learned like, you know, having, uh, four boys in her family that she just would rather not see what happened, right.

16:32

This, I mean, we'd jump off the house onto the trampoline and, you know, that kind of,

16:38

I mean, it's just any number of crazy things that we could come up with to do, you know, uh, throwing each other through tables, everything, you know, like all this crazy stuff, you know, like, but I mean, like women don't do these kinds of things.

16:50

Like women do not, women do not make videos of themselves, like jumping over cars, you know, do you know what my wife did when she was, you know, a kid and through high school, they would make up dances about as courageous as you can.

17:08

And then, and then, you know, my wife, she told me, you know, when I was getting to know her, she told me about that and how much she, she loved making dances to the new popular songs or whatever.

17:18

And I was just like, what, I don't even understand. Like I shot my friends with BB guns.

17:29

Well, that's what I mean. Like, so men, like men have been given like an overwhelming abundance of courage and, you know, like courage really, um, you know,

17:37

I think Aristotle talked about like virtues is the mean between two extremes and whether or not this is true. I mean,

17:43

I think this is a good way of understanding what courage is, but courage is like the average or whatever the mean is the average between like cowardice on the one hand and full hardiness on the other hand.

17:54

Right. And so men, I mean, I've obviously been given a lot of something that women haven't gotten, you know, and I can, that's, it's, it's that kind of thing that like, you know, growing up,

18:04

I didn't even like, you know, part of it's like related to testosterone. Right. So men have like 10 times testosterone, the testosterone women.

18:13

But I mean, young men think that like they're idiots, man. Like, you know, I was an idiot. Like I, I couldn't conceive of like losing a fight to a bear growing up, you know?

18:25

Wow. I mean, that's stupid of it. No, man. Cause there's not even a, you know, a slight chance you might lose.

18:33

No, man. No, no. David could win. I could win, you know? Yeah. So David, David, it's right there in the

18:41

Bible. I don't know what else to tell you. No, but I mean, it's just like men are just like, um, the glory of young men is their strength.

18:48

And so you, you like men, um, they're given a lot of testosterone and, and, you know,

18:53

I think, um, you know, like one of the things that's happened is like testosterone, uh, levels right now are kind of at an all time low in men.

19:01

Um, maybe they're like half of what they should be or something like that, which means that like a lot of men are a lot more wimpy than they used to be, but I mean, like men are just like, we, we, men are made to like, you know, face danger.

19:16

And I mean, like a man, like without the mitigating, like balance of a woman really is going to be prone towards recklessness.

19:23

Okay. Right. Like in almost every conceivable way imaginable. So you have like the weaker vessel who is physically weaker and like, like doesn't have near the testosterone as a man.

19:34

Right. Like she, like she's living in a world that like looks very different from the kind of world that a man like is looking at.

19:41

Right. Yeah. And so, I mean, I go out in public, I'm not afraid of getting kidnapped. I'm not afraid of getting raped, you know,

19:47

I'm not afraid of like a van pulling up and hauling me off. And, you know, I don't have to like think about how am

19:54

I going to walk from the grocery store to my vehicle and I need to have my mace ready or, and I hear like the ladies in our church, like, like strategizing about how they leave grocery stores and things like that.

20:07

And it's just like, these, these like discussions are incomprehensible to me. Like I've never once like been afraid, like to go hardly anywhere.

20:17

Right. Like particularly by myself, you know, as far as that, as far as those things are concerned.

20:23

But I think men like on their own, they're just like, we're prone to being reckless. Right. So I'm like men on their own are going to take a nap when there's a fire a few miles away.

20:32

That is national news. At least the ones that can't conceive of losing a fight to a bear.

20:38

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, they're going to do stupid things like that. Right. Like they're going to shoot each other with baby guns.

20:44

Like they're going to, I mean, my kids, like, you know, my boys, they are, they come up with all sorts of creative ways to do the most dangerous thing imaginable.

20:54

And then I look at my daughter and she's like, you know, when she really gets some courage going, you know, it's just a very different experience to watch, you know, than my boys.

21:03

I mean, and mostly she's just like nervous, like, you know, they're just like fearless and she's like, you know, cautious, like much more cautious than them in almost every conceivable way.

21:15

But I mean, I think like God's made like imbalances to where like a man on his own is probably just going to get himself blown up.

21:22

Right. And then you put a woman in the mix of that equation and she's going to calm them down a little bit.

21:31

Right. But she's not going to be able to calm them down totally. Like, you know, it's true, man.

21:38

You know, it's true. Like he's a guy on his own. It's just kind of like, I mean,

21:44

I have shot Tannerite before. So, so,

21:49

I mean, but it's just, so what I'm trying to say is like, this is one of the, like, like anecdotally, every guy knows the answer to this question.

21:56

Like, it's just so obvious. Like, it's just like, this is just one of those things you have to pretend because you're being

22:04

PC that you don't know. Like, you don't know that your wife is just way more prone to anxiety, way more.

22:11

I mean, the vast majority, the vast majority of like women today,

22:18

I mean, not the vast majority, but I'm saying like the vast majority of people on psychotropic drugs, like as adults are women.

22:24

Okay. So, like, it's just very imbalanced. Like women are way more prone to anxiety and depression than men.

22:30

Like, these things are just like, you can verify this in any way you want to verify it. Right. But then when you actually think about like the idea of courage, it's like mental strength necessary to face danger or difficulties with self -confidence and, you know, resolution, like all you have to do, like to verify this, it's just round up, like get everyone at your church, think of the most dangerous situation imaginable, and then see who will do it.

22:56

You know what I mean? Like, just get a very dangerous situation and you're going to find that the men will do it and the women won't, you know?

23:02

Right, right. And so, like, it's just so easy to verify like this kind of thing. Just think of a difficult situation and, you know, like you could just compare stories, you know, and most men are going to have like, you know, throughout the course of their life, much better stories related to this topic than ladies will.

23:22

Well, I mean, I think you see this even in, you know, the shooting that happened recently, right?

23:28

So, you know, this girl pretending to be a guy comes in and shoots a bunch of women and children in a school and who goes to stop her, right?

23:41

Right. It's a bunch of men, a bunch of armed police officers who are men run in there like run towards it.

23:51

So, but see, that's a real, like that's real danger, right? Right, right. So, you think of something that's like it requires like real danger, like real, like objective real, right?

24:03

So, like we've watered down this concept of courage so much to where like, you know, basically it can apply to anyone.

24:12

But like when you think about like real situations like the one that you're describing that actually require like a person -

24:18

They mean like, hey, I very well may die. Right. Who's going to do that on balance of probability?

24:25

Not the women, right? So, like now, because you live in a society that's so hostile to generalities, you know, people are going to point out the one situation where, you know, the lady pulls out her gun and shoots the shooter or something.

24:41

And it's just like, yeah, that can happen. But on balance of probability, you take 100 women, how are they going to perform in the same thing, right?

24:49

Right. And you take 100 men, how are they going to perform? And overwhelmingly, it's going to be the men doing the dangerous thing.

24:55

And I mean, that's just borne out in the kind of jobs that men do, you know, like women aren't the ones who are climbing up like very tall, you know.

25:06

They're not the ones running power lines and doing the dangerous, like working on an oil rig and they're not doing that.

25:12

Like, because they're not made to. Yeah, I mean, I wish I had pulled up the stat so I knew it off the top of my head and wasn't just making something up.

25:22

But I remember seeing at one point, you know, amongst the debate about women not being paid as much as men, one of the statistics that people brought up is, you know, the famous stat about like women making like 73 or 76 % of what a man makes.

25:41

But then at the same time, it was like, you know, roughly 70 or 80 % of men made up all, you know, on job site deaths.

25:52

Right. Like, overwhelmingly, men are performing the more dangerous jobs.

25:58

And you see that in how many men versus women are dying on, you know, various jobs or careers that they might have.

26:08

So, I mean, they're doing the more dangerous jobs and the one, I mean, so, think about these -

26:13

And that's right. That's how it should be. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's how it should be. I mean, so it's, you think about it like together, like men are made for strength, both mentally made for strength and physically made for strength.

26:25

And like, typically the kind of jobs that like, I mean, there's all sorts of jobs that have to be done and a lot of them require strength and a lot of them require courage and men are the ones who are doing that, despite the fact that like, you know, you have the egalitarians trying to make everything equal.

26:41

It's just, it's not going to be like men and women are not equal in these ways at all. And there's just a, like, it's just a massive, massive imbalance.

26:51

So, it's not even close. Now, I think if things are starting to, like, get closer in our society as it relates to courage, that's a sign of judgment on a society.

27:02

But, you know, overwhelmingly, like, just these are, men and women are not the same.

27:07

And this is one of those areas where they're not. Pete Yeah. So, we talked a lot about like, sort of anecdotal examples which are helpful to help us understand who is more courageous, men or women, or is it equal?

27:23

Do we see this reflected in the Bible as well? Do we see, like, various passages of Scripture that tell us that men are more courageous than women?

27:34

Or is this just sort of something that is like, well, you know, maybe right now in the time period that we're in, it's been men, but it could be women in the future at some point, and that's okay.

27:48

You know, is there something in the Bible that's telling us, hey, this is a characteristic that has been, you know, much more given to men than to women?

27:59

Jared Yeah, I mean, it shows up over and over and over again in ways that people may not expect.

28:07

You know, so, but I think in general, most people haven't read the

28:12

Bible and put any thought into answering this question with the Bible, and so then they may, like, think in their reading, like, they may not be able to think of any passages, but this shows up in a wide variety of ways, and it's not just as simple as just look up courage and every time courage shows up, see where it's labeled.

28:32

Does that make sense? Jared So, now you can do that, and like, when you do that, one of the things you'll realize is that, like, just look up the word courage and you'll see that most of the time it's like in the context of battle where men are being told, like, be strong and courageous as they're going into the promised land and everything else, right?

28:52

So, you know, like Deuteronomy 31 .6, be strong and courageous, do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is the

28:58

Lord your God who goes with you. He will not lead you or forsake you. So, then

29:04

Moses summoned Joshua and said to him in the sight of all Israel, be strong and courageous, for you shall go with this people into the land the

29:09

Lord has sworn. So, typically, like, this is, like, you look up strong and courageous and you'll see that this is kind of a motivator to men in general.

29:18

But then, you know, I'll just give you, without just belaboring the point, I wanted to give you just an airtight passage that makes this point just very obviously.

29:27

So, like, Isaiah 19 .16 says this, okay?

29:32

And this is from God. Like, this is a judgment from God, okay? Jared So, it says, in that day the Egyptians will be like women.

29:40

Okay? All right,

29:45

I haven't even read it yet. All right, what does it mean to be like women, Harrison? What do you think it means to be like women?

29:51

What does it mean? Harrison Weak. Jared No, no, like, none of the, all right, frightful.

30:00

So, in that day the Egyptians will be like women and tremble with fear before the hand that the

30:06

Lord of hosts shakes over them. So, God knows.

30:13

God knows. So, as a sign of judgment on a society, the men will tremble with fear like a woman, like women do, right?

30:23

So, I mean, women are women, right? Like, women are women. Like, and women are not made to face danger and difficulty and they're not.

30:29

I mean, they're not made to, like, they're not, like, made by God to, like, you take the most difficult, you know, dangerous situation imaginable, women aren't made to face them in the same way that men are.

30:43

Whereas, like, you can think of, like, any kind of terrifying, like, world -ending kind of, you know,

30:50

D -Day, you want men storming the beaches of Normandy. You don't want women storming the beaches of Normandy.

30:56

Like, any kind of, like, anything that requires significant courage, you want, like, you're going to want men to do it in general.

31:05

And God knows that. God knows how He made women, right? And He didn't make them to be, you know, Mulan or, you know,

31:12

Brave or whatever. Like, He didn't – Alita Battle Angel, you know? Pete and Jared laugh.

31:19

Like, He didn't make them to be courageous and He knows it. Pete Right. Yeah, and you see that in other places too.

31:25

Like, I was going to bring up, you know, 1 Corinthians with Paul in chapter 16 where he tells the men to, you know, be – what is it?

31:33

Let's see. Jared Act like men, be strong. Pete Yeah, be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong, right?

31:41

And so, he's essentially, you know, he's essentially describing a bunch of sort of like these defensive kind of characteristics, right?

31:53

Like, defend – essentially, he's saying, like, defend what is valuable in a certain way.

31:59

And how do you do that? Well, you have to be on the alert, you have to stand firm in the faith, you have to act like a man, you have to be strong.

32:06

And so, and then he, you know, later on in this passage, he also mentions doing everything out of love, right?

32:14

Which I think is an important thing for us to remember in general, but, you know, it seems like Paul understands this too.

32:20

Like, act like men. You know, I think if I were to just go out in public and say to someone, you know, hey, act like a man, they would probably respond, or if a woman was near, they'd probably say, well, what is that supposed to mean?

32:38

Because they know what I'm saying. Jared Everyone knows, yeah, everyone knows what it means to be a man and what it means to, like, and people throughout church history knew what it meant to be a man.

32:48

I mean, there's like that famous example of Latimer with Ridley or whatever where he encourages him to play the man as they go and face their martyrdom or whatever.

32:59

And I mean, everyone knows what that means. Like, what you mean is someone who has courage, right?

33:05

Who is not going to fall in the midst of danger in a way that everyone has much greater expectations for how men are going to handle difficult situations than women.

33:15

And it's just like not comparable, right? So, like you expect a man to go running into that burning building.

33:21

You don't expect a woman to go into that, running into that burning building. You expect a man to stop that bank robber.

33:27

You don't expect a woman to do that. It's not all about just physical strength differences, right?

33:33

Jared There's more to it than that. You expect a man to, you know, tough it. Pete No, Paul obviously thinks there's more than just that to it because part of the reason that, part of the justification he gives for why men should be pastors and not women is because women are more, he says they're more easily deceived.

33:52

Jared Sure. Pete And how does he say that? Well, he says that, you know, it was Eve who was deceived and not

33:58

Adam. Now, Adam had his problems too, right, but he wasn't deceived, you know, and Eve was.

34:06

And so, the Bible is obviously painting a picture that women and men are different and it's more than just a simple physical difference.

34:17

Jared Right, right. Pete So, okay, so we see how the Bible, you know, we see God is saying they'll be like women and we all know what he's saying, right?

34:31

Jared Ridiculous. Pete Paul is saying act like men and we all know what he's saying there, right?

34:37

Jared Right. Pete So, we see in the Bible this is confirmed. Now, okay, you know, we've made a lot of jokes about this and whatever and, you know,

34:46

I think we've kind of driven the point home that men are at least supposed to be more courageous.

34:53

I guess, I think you could probably, I meant to say this a little bit earlier, but I think you can probably make an argument right now that, and you kind of, you definitely alluded to this, but I think with where we're at as a society right now, you know, it's not,

35:10

I think we're getting dangerously close to it not actually being true that the current men of this generation are not significantly more brave.

35:22

Jared Significantly more, yeah. Pete You know, than women, right? So, I think it is absolutely possible to have something be true generally.

35:33

Men are more courageous than women generally. Jared I think way more, way more. But then in one specific instance, you know, one specific culture of history, it might not necessarily be true that they're way more courageous.

35:52

Jared It may be starting to, you know, get closer to evening out or, you know, they're only twice as courageous. Pete Right.

35:57

But then, you know, that should be viewed as a sign of judgment, right?

36:03

Pete I mean, that's essentially what the passage you were reading was about. It was about the people being punished by God and, you know, they were going to act like women before God's judgment.

36:17

And so, I think that, you know, that's something important to keep in mind because, you know, as I think about the people in our society, especially the men,

36:27

I think we are kind of creeping up dangerously close on being able to say that men are not, men are no longer in our society significantly more courageous.

36:39

I mean, we had people, I remember someone, this was a while back now, but I think about it every once in a while, someone who disagreed with the podcast with something we had said along the way.

36:52

You know, they were essentially mocking us for saying that, you know, without men being courageous, if men aren't courageous, then you're not going to have anyone storm the beaches of Normandy, right?

37:06

Jared Right. Pete And they're kind of mocking that and like, oh, well, who, you know, hey, wake up, it's 2021 or 2022 or whatever, you know, we don't need anyone to go storm the beaches of Normandy.

37:19

And it's like, you know, I just don't know what kind of world that person is living in. Jared Yeah, I mean, just tell that to Ukraine, you know.

37:26

Pete Exactly. Jared They didn't think Russia was going to invade either. Pete And now they're arming their own citizens to fight against Russia, right?

37:34

So, like, I think it's incredibly naive to think, hey, we've reached a point in society where we don't have to have this, you know, quote unquote, like, archaic view of men and women.

37:48

You know, we don't need men to be so courageous that they've got to storm the beaches of Normandy. Those problems are behind us.

37:55

It's like, dude, wake up. Wake up. Yeah, I mean, just think about the fact that we just got locked in our homes, like, for, you know, a year, because people weren't willing to face a 0 .001

38:09

% chance of death. So, like, that's what happens when, you know, courage is at an all -time low, is that you basically have a government lock you in your home, throw you in jail for trying to worship, throw you in jail for trying to go to work, right?

38:24

Take all your job, crash the economy, right? Yeah. Beyond recognition. And so, why is that courage so important?

38:32

Well, it's because when you have just a few people who are courageous enough to stand against something like that, that's enough to, you know, sort of tip the scales and convince a lot more people to follow.

38:43

Particularly men, yeah. I mean, if you see one man who, like, obviously has some courage, you're going to want to follow him, you know?

38:49

Right, yeah. Because men are designed to be shamed by that. To where it's like they see, like, bravery, they're attracted to that, they want to follow that.

38:58

Right, yeah. And, like, you know, that's contagious. That's contagious. But then if everyone's afraid, then everyone's going to keep their mouth shut.

39:06

Right, you know, and you saw that, you see this kind of thing, like, in the NHL pretty recently. So, the

39:11

NHL, they have been pushing this sort of, like,

39:18

I forget exactly what they call it, but it's basically like what they, essentially like a pride night, you know, where, hey, we're, you know, for this game, all the teams are going to be wearing their rainbow -colored jerseys and, you know, we're going to play this game in honor of all of our, you know, like, homosexual friends and, like, you guys are welcome here at these games or whatever.

39:41

And one player, one single player out of the entire league decided not to participate.

39:50

He still played in the game, but he didn't wear the, you know, warm -up rainbow -colored jersey.

39:57

He didn't wear the patch or whatever. And after the game, he came, you know, they interviewed him and asked him about it, and he, you know, he essentially just said, like, hey, it goes against my beliefs as a

40:09

Christian. You know, I'm not going to, I'm not, so I didn't want to participate in the pride night or whatever.

40:16

And then he puts out a statement that says a similar thing, and all of a sudden, you know, several teams, several teams stopped doing the pride night.

40:26

So, one person, one player who essentially has, you know, very little to no leverage in that kind of situation.

40:34

I mean, you know, like, professional sports is very competitive, right?

40:39

So, they can get a replacement for most people that play those sports, but still, even in spite of that, you know, one person was all it took to eventually convince entire programs to not even participate anymore.

40:56

So, yeah, a lot of people, the reaction they may have to this kind of conversation, particularly with, you know, me laughing out of control at, you know, the absurdity of women being as courageous as men for as long as what

41:07

I did, you know. In the course of this episode, they'll ask, you know, what's the point?

41:12

Is it just like for men just to sit there and say, hey, we're better than women or whatever? Like, why are we having this conversation?

41:18

Like, what is the point? Well, the point is that God's made men to be courageous. God's made men to be courageous.

41:24

He's given them, you know, 10 times the testosterone of women. And then what happens when like a society is utterly uncourageous, like when a society where like courageous becomes more rare, right?

41:36

And standards of men like courage are lowered is like, I mean, you basically like you're living in that kind of society right now where you have a crisis of courage in our society in general, where men still are doing the most dangerous things.

41:49

They're still a lot more courageous than women, but it's just there's not nearly enough of that.

41:54

Then what happens is your society, they can't face danger anymore. They can't, I mean, the government just basically is just doing whatever they want, you know, writing bills saying that they're going to have free access to our phones, you know, things like this.

42:06

Like, and we're not doing anything about it. They're going to disarm all of us, right? They're intent upon disarming all of us. I mean, they basically crashed our economy.

42:14

And so they locked us in our homes, like forcing us to be medically experimented upon.

42:20

Like, so you have all these kinds of things, like these are just tangible, like not just war analogies of why men need to have courage, but then like on a practical level, like women know that they're much more fearful than men.

42:32

Women know that they're much more prone to anxiety and worry than men. And like when men are strong and stable, everyone's strong and stable.

42:41

Jared So God's designed men to be kind of a stabilizing, like, we call the mom the backbone of the family, but I mean, it should be the dad who's the backbone of the family.

42:53

And you can go through very, very difficult times as a family if the man is strong and courageous.

43:00

And I mean, everyone knows this. I mean, you just watch old movies, you know, and the theme of every old movie where there's some difficult situation is, you know, the man standing there next to the woman and saying to the woman, you know, don't worry, baby, everything's going to be all right, right?

43:14

Well, that's I mean, that's what a man should be doing. He should be lending his excess courage to his wife to help his wife face difficulty and face danger.

43:23

And he should be bearing these burdens and he should be bearing the burdens of like what it's like to live life in the midst of a fallen world, right, to where there's dangers and there's difficulties.

43:33

And when like things get really hard, you know, like when the man is stable and calm and trusting the

43:40

Lord and, you know, it's not just like bravado, it's like God will take care of us.

43:46

We'll be all right. Then like ladies, as they're submitting to their husband and following their husband, they're taking like that thing that they need.

43:54

So, they're going to be like a brake on the man's courage to make him less reckless, but he's going to be a brake on their fear to make them more courageous than what they otherwise would be.

44:04

I mean, you know, I was talking about one of my aunts who was, you know, basically just describing how, you know, her husband who died from cancer, like shepherded her in the midst of that process and gave her confidence in moving forward and then even after his death, right?

44:22

But then the whole time, because he was confident in the Lord and trustworthy in the Lord, he lent that courage he had to face that difficulty to her, right?

44:33

Even, and that even extended beyond his life even, right, to where she faced that difficult time better than she would have on her own, right, and had a plan going forward after.

44:44

But that's what you need. And like when men like are emasculated and have no courage and are looking to the wives to bear the weight of, you know, all the difficulty, like essentially like the women are like repelled by that.

44:56

They don't want to be married to a man like that. I mean, there's an example I heard recently that from a book

45:03

I read from, it was about Richard Warmbrand's life where he was, you know, tortured for Christ, I think is what the book is called.

45:11

But there is some, you know, scenario where no one was speaking up, like in the midst of like some big problem.

45:22

I can't quite remember what the issue was, but, you know, the wife looks at her husband and says, are you going to say anything? And he says, you know, if I say something, you know that you're going to lose a husband, right?

45:31

And, you know, her response to that was, well, I'd rather lose a husband than be married to a coward, right?

45:40

And I mean, he didn't actually get taken away at that moment. It actually went well, but he did shortly after that, you know.

45:45

And so, like, women don't want to be married to a coward, a man. Pete Yeah.

45:51

Jared And so, you know, this has a lot of practical benefit to it. Like, men are designed to face danger and they're designed to, you know, be strong and to be courageous, as the

46:02

Bible says, over and over and over again, be strong and be courageous. They're designed for that and when their strength fails, like society falls.

46:10

Pete Right. Jared You know, they're ready to be conquered. Pete Yeah. Yeah, and, you know, I think in all of this, it's important to point out that I think a lot of people, when they hear you say men are more courageous than women, what they actually hear is men are courageous and women are not courageous in any way whatsoever, right?

46:32

Jared Right. Pete And, you know, I don't, that's not really what we're saying. You know, women can be courageous.

46:39

We're just saying that this is not like a, this is not like a mutually exclusive thing. This is a, you know, greater than, less than statement.

46:48

Jared Yeah. So, we made a, you know, we made a little bit of a small episode on this, you know, should we encourage women to be strong and courageous?

46:55

And like, I talked through some of these things, you know, as it relates to that, but then, you know, it's helpful to think in terms of just like a weightlifting analogy.

47:04

So, and I can explain that real quick just for the sake of posterity so that people could understand, you know, what's being communicated here was not because they absolutely hear, like, when you say, like, you know, strength is a domain of men.

47:17

Women aren't made for courage in the same way that men are made for courage and men have way more courage than women. Like, what they hear is like that women should have like negative courage or something like that or no courage or, but then that's not really what's happening.

47:28

And so, like, you know, like growing up, like when I was in high school, I was lifting like 285 pounds, like on bench press.

47:37

That's what I was benching. And like the girls in my weightlifting class, they were benching, like, some of them were benching the bar, 45 pounds.

47:45

And like the really, like the ones that really worked out for a couple of years, they would bench like the bar with like a 10 and a 5 on each side, you know?

47:53

So, at basically 75 pounds. Yeah, yeah. You're smiling, like you're smiling.

47:59

That's cute. That's cute. So, every guy, like every guy has that reaction to that kind of thing, to where like you see a girl bench pressing the bar and you think, whoa, like what's going on here?

48:12

Man, that's gotta suck. For that to be hard, that's gotta suck. Yeah, you know, and then if you like, like you really, you thought like,

48:21

I remember there was one girl who was able to like max like 225s on each side.

48:27

That's 95 pounds. And it's like, whoa, that's really strong for her, for a girl, right?

48:34

That's not strong for a guy. That's like really weak for a guy. That's like you're warming up still.

48:40

That's like you've never lifted before or, you know, like that's nothing, that's nothing, right? So, but then like you compare that, like, so you take something like, you know, you take something like, you know, standard average, like, you know, high school kids that are stronger than not, you know, something like 200 or something like that compared to 45.

49:06

That's like five times stronger than that woman, right? And like, so to, so should women be strong?

49:14

I mean, yes, for a woman, right? Yeah. In the same way that you say, like, should like you're training your kids to be strong.

49:21

Yeah. I mean, like if, you know, if one of my kids could lift the 40, like the bar, like they're young, he'd be like, oh man, that's really strong for a little kid, right?

49:30

Right. But that's not strong for an adult, right? So like to, should women be strong?

49:36

Yes, should, they should be strong for a woman, but like to a man that's going to look like weakness, right?

49:42

Which is why like men are told to give honor to the weaker vessel, right? Like, so to like, that may be strong for a woman, that's not strong for a man.

49:50

Like that's like benching 45 pounds is not strong for any man. You know, benching 70 is not objectively a human adult strong, right?

49:59

Right. But it may be strong for a woman. So like the Proverbs 31 woman, she clothes herself in strength, but that doesn't mean that she's she -hulk, right?

50:09

Right, yeah. That means that maybe she's benching that 70 pounds or something like that, which is

50:14

I didn't even think she was benching at all in that part. Yeah, but I mean, but you get what I'm saying, like she's kept herself in reasonable shape to the point where she's not just, you know, unable to do her job because she constantly has a backache and, you know, whatever has to be bedridden.

50:30

And she's reasonably strong for a woman, which means like somewhere, she's benching somewhere between 45 to 60, you know, kind of thing, right?

50:40

You know, you're obeying Proverbs 31, if you can bench between 45 and 60 pounds.

50:46

It is 60. But yeah, I mean, so give her, you know, like the metaphor, that's the metaphor.

50:53

But then when you take it, you compare it over to courage, right? To courage. Like, you know, a guy may have 250 pound courage, like you're, you know, like that may be a guy with too much courage, right?

51:05

You know, there may be a guy with like 200 pound, like average normal amount of courage, 200 pound courage, compared to like a woman with her 50, 60 pounds of courage, that's going to look like not courage, right?

51:20

Like it's not going to look like, that doesn't mean she shouldn't have any courage. It just means that she's not made like naturally to have the 200 pound courage in the same way as a man, right?

51:30

And so, then that means that you make allowances for her, right? Like you don't expect her to do 200, like tasks that require 200 pound courage, right?

51:41

Jared You expect her to do tasks that require 60 pound courage, you know, or 50, like you really stretch her 70 pound courage, right?

51:48

But like, you're going to be pushing her to the breaking point, you know, if you're putting her in like 200 pound courage situations.

51:55

And so, that's what, so what people need to hear is not women need to have no courage. It's just, they're not made to, you know, be

52:01

Florida man. They're not made to be hold my beer. Pete They're not made to storm the beaches of Normandy.

52:08

Jared They're not, like they're not made to do that. They're not made to stop. So, if you want to make all your police force into, you know, people who at most are going to have 70 pound courage, then you're going to get like the results of that, right?

52:21

Like, so if you're going to put all your 70 pound courage in those difficult jobs, you may find that they die at a rate five times as fast as the men, you know, like, so that's the point.

52:34

All right. Well, I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the conversation on this. And, you know, you know, at the end of the day,

52:42

I think the point is just to say, I challenge people who really still after listening to everything that we had to say, just go through and read the

52:51

Bible, especially the Old Testament. And notice how many times there are statements like what you read earlier,

53:00

Tim. What was that passage? Isaiah 16. Is that what it was? Tim That was

53:05

Isaiah 19, 16. Pete Oh, 19, 16. Okay. Tim But, you know, all through the, you know,

53:10

Deuteronomy, Joshua and Samuel, you'll see courage, courage, courage, courage.

53:16

I just challenge you guys to read through the Old Testament and see how many times stuff like this comes up specifically towards men and understand that it's not just some like, you know, oh, that's just how they were back then.

53:30

That's just some antiquated worldview that, you know, we've evolved past and, you know, we're much more advanced as a society.

53:38

We're not as backwards as they were. They're just acknowledging a literal, physical difference between men and women that God purposely designed and acknowledges time and time again throughout the

53:52

Bible and not only acknowledges but just treats as like an obvious truth that we should already know.

54:00

So much so that He's just making the statement, you know, act like men or, you know, they will be like women.

54:07

And saying those things knowing that we're going to know exactly what's being communicated there by God.

54:14

So, I challenge you guys if you disagree with this to just go through and read all of those things and, you know, just see if the

54:21

Old Testament changes your mind in terms of how we should view courage in men and women.

54:29

And hopefully this will be a challenge too, especially for the guys out there.

54:34

You know, like we were talking about earlier, Tim, we were saying essentially, it seems like there's an overall lack of courage in men relative to what it probably should be.

54:47

And I think that's true as you observe society and it objectively makes society worse overall.

54:57

I mean, if you don't… Jared That's right. And if you have a lot of men who think that, like, it's supposed to be the same, then, you know, they're missing this fundamental part of what masculinity actually is.

55:08

Like, masculinity is you facing the danger, not sending your wife to face it. You know, so if you want, like, men to thrive in a society, give them difficult things to do.

55:20

Yeah, and I mean, you just see this time and time again throughout history. I mean, our country wouldn't even exist if it weren't for courageous men who were willing to rebel against a tyrannical ruler halfway across the world just about.

55:36

And so, I think you can just look at history, you can look at the Bible and see how much courageous men benefit society and how much cowardly men do not benefit society and actually weaken society.

55:52

And that should be a challenge for us to remind us to say, hey, we as men need to be courageous.

55:57

And it should be a challenge for women, especially wives, you know, to encourage their husbands in their courage, right?

56:07

And so, take that - Not try to stamp it out, basically. Not try to stamp it out, not try to impede it, not try to outdo it, but to encourage it.

56:15

And so, that's the challenge to take away from this kind of conversation. And hopefully, it ends up being something encouraging for you guys and possibly even revealing sin in your life, revealing some sort of cowardice that you might be harboring and trying to justify in a certain way.

56:35

And just go look at the Bible. Look at what Jesus did. Look at what the apostles did. Look at what the prophets did.

56:41

They were all courageous. They all said the things that no one wanted to say, and it was honoring to God to do those things.

56:50

And so, again, we hope this is encouraging. We love to get to do this every week and talk about these things and have these hard conversations and say the things out loud that no one else wants to say, but we're all thinking, you know, ask the questions that you're not allowed to ask so that we can be equipped for the works of ministry.

57:10

So, we enjoy being able to do this. We thank you guys for all the support, and we look forward to having you on the next one.

57:24

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57:32

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57:41

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57:52

Now, go boldly and obey the truth in the midst of a biblically illiterate world who will be perpetually offended by your every move.