Professing “Christian” Refuted On Abortion

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00:02

At it's most basic form, what's your guys' purpose? Our purpose is to try and, yeah, we're trying to share the message of Jesus Christ with these people, but we're also trying to save these children.

00:12

Absolutely, okay. So I support that as well. I'm sorry, what was your name? Jason. I'm Zach.

00:18

Nice to meet you, Zach. Pleasure, man. So... So, yeah, just to give a more developed answer for your question, can

00:26

I answer you real quick? So, we come out here at least a few times a week, but we've been coming out for the past few years now, and God has been so faithful to save at least over 100 children that we know of.

00:38

So we try to come here, and we try to tell the truth about them.

00:44

Do you know what happened to those 100 children? Some of them, yeah. So, are they doing okay?

00:49

Yeah, some of them we follow up with, some of them are running around our church, so it's a beautiful thing.

00:55

So we try to come out and tell the truth, we try to offer any kind of help, pay for any medical expenses, adoption, anything like that.

01:03

How do you feel about the women who are almost forced to make this decision, and they see you guys out here, and they're...

01:09

these ideas, babies are murdered here, like they're being pushed into this decision, maybe by rape, which is the one example you guys would throw, but I'm talking manipulation,

01:19

I'm talking money, I'm talking poverty. There are unlimited amounts of circumstances that could lead a woman to being forced to make a decision to either abort or go for adoption, you know what

01:32

I mean? Yeah, I agree. Just for one second, just consider that my words are also coming from God.

01:41

Are you a Christian? Yes, yeah, I've been a Christian my whole life. I believe that you guys are sinning out here.

01:47

How so? You're bringing these emotions on these women that are so, that are so deeply rooted, you know?

01:56

First of all, their brains aren't in the right place either. They've got all kinds of hormones running on, and they see you guys out here spreading love, sure, but in a way, they're bringing up hatred for the people that have put them in these positions.

02:09

Okay. Do you see what I'm trying to say? So because they perceive it as hatred, that makes it hatred?

02:15

Absolutely. Okay, so their perception is what changes the truth of what

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God is saying to them. I mean, it doesn't necessarily change the truth, but their perception is their reality. Right, but who's the author of truth and reality?

02:27

And your perception is your reality, so you're perceiving that you're spreading love and you're spreading all of this.

02:33

No, that's what God says I'm doing. Apart from God, I believe this makes your sinning. His word, tell me from Scripture, because he commands me in Proverbs chapter 24 to rescue those who are being led away.

02:43

You have to let me finish. We're not being self -righteous. We come out here as sinners in need of God's grace, just like anyone else.

02:51

I see you as self -righteous. Right. So let me say this to you.

02:57

I'm not telling you I'm right and you're wrong. I'm not telling you— Are you right about that? I'm not telling you that.

03:02

All I'm saying is maybe just consider what I'm saying as God's word as well. I'll consider that.

03:08

I'll consider it, and I'll also rest on the number of children that have been saved, the number of people that have heard the gospel of Jesus Christ and the good news, and I'm going to rest on that, man.

03:18

Here's my question. What are you doing to reach these women at the places where it's actually happening? Can you show me a better way than what we're doing?

03:26

I just don't believe you can tell people what decision they have to make. I'm not. I'm telling them what God says about them and what he commands of them.

03:33

My authority is the Bible. We can be on the same page that you guys believe that this is murder.

03:38

I have to believe this too. I don't support abortion in any way, shape, or form. I don't support government in any way, shape, or form, okay?

03:46

So I don't believe that there should be a law enacted. I don't believe that people should tell others that they think that they understand what they're going through.

03:55

You know what I mean? There are just so many countless situations that have put a woman in this position, per se.

04:05

You see what I'm saying? Totally, and we've talked to all those women. Everybody goes through a different law. Can I share one thing with you though about that?

04:11

Because there was a question you asked that was really, it struck at my heart. Just because I'm here every week and I see the dead on earth.

04:19

So you asked a question, you said, what about women who, you know, are in a difficult situation?

04:24

They may not even know what they're doing. They may be forced or pushed or whatever the case may be.

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And I want you to know, that's not what we see out here. We see women who walk through those doors and say,

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No, no, no. They walk through the doors and they say, Yeah, I know it's a baby.

04:41

But I should have the right to kill it. So in that moment, with a claim like that, how does

04:47

God see them? Are you asking me? Yeah. He sees them as sinners just like he sees everybody else.

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So what does he require of sinners in his gospel? Repentance. Amen, and that's what we're telling them. Absolutely.

04:59

So now let me go here. Like I said, we can't agree that this is murder. Does God not murder in the

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Bible? Well, before you go there, do we agree that that foundation and the foundation for forgiveness for these women is calling them to repentance?

05:12

Absolutely. Alright, then thank you for validating the ministry. I should have made sure that you knew we were kind of on the same page a little bit more.

05:19

I've just been thinking about, I've been thinking about this a lot, you know, because this is on my way home from work every day.

05:25

Oh yeah? So it just, it frustrates me because within the Bible you see God murder not countless times.

05:32

Well, God doesn't commit murder. I mean, he opens up the floor and swallows a village. He murders through the slaves of Egypt and he...

05:39

He doesn't murder. I mean, people murder in the name of God. The Bible says he can't sin. The Bible says he can't sin. Absolutely, but people murder...

05:45

Right, so can he commit murder if he can't sin? Did he not open the ground and take the lives of hundreds of people? Right, and what does the

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Bible say about them? It says that they were sinners. Right, so he has the right to do with his creation as he sees fit.

05:56

He's not a murderer. Absolutely. Right, so he's not a murderer. But neither are these women who are coming here for help.

06:02

They're not coming here for help. They're coming here to kill their children, my friend. Okay, I see where you're going with that, but that's not everybody.

06:09

There's so much manipulation that takes place. Like I said, you guys will argue that maybe the only grounds for abortion are rape.

06:15

I think there are so many more. I don't believe that, actually. I believe that, first of all, a woman that gets raped,

06:21

I believe that man deserves the death penalty. I agree. Because she's so valuable. Absolutely. That's what God says in his law.

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That's how much he protects and values women. But I would say that if someone were to ask me, because people say that all the time.

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They'll say, well, what if she was raped? How about that? Are you on board with that? And I would say, well, what's wrong with rape? And they try to tell me, well, it's a violation of another human's body.

06:42

You can't just do things with someone else's body like that. And I say, great. Welcome to the conversation about abortion, because that's what's happening in there.

06:50

You can't just do things with a child's body. You can't just tear that child's body into pieces. So I'm against both.

06:56

I'm against rape, because I value the woman, and so does God. And I'm against abortion, because it's murder, because God values the child.

07:03

And I can support that. And like I said, I'm against abortion, too. Why? But am I going to tell people that they can't do it?

07:09

Yeah. Absolutely not. But my friend, you've indicated the call to repentance.

07:14

Why do people need to repent? But I have no idea what they have gone through. Can I ask you that? Can I ask you, why do people need to repent? To gain the glory of God.

07:21

Yeah, but why do they need to repent? Why does God call them to? Why does God call them to repent? Yeah, why does

07:26

God call them to repent? Because he loves us. Well, here's where I would come from.

07:31

Scripture. Okay? The word of God is my authority. I don't think it's all in the scripture, just so you know. Well, I can show you if you want to see.

07:36

No, no, no. What I meant by that was, I don't think the scripture is hard facts.

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Like, I don't think all gay people are going to hell. Sure, yes, gay people are going to hell. Some of them.

07:48

Right. But it's where your mind's at, you know? So you disagree with Paul. With what?

07:53

You disagree with Paul. What did Paul say? Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6 that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, neither homosexuals, nor adulterers, nor idolaters.

08:01

I think you're unrighteous. I'm unrighteous. Amen. We only go through righteousness once we die. I don't know what that means.

08:10

We only go through righteousness. But once we die is when, no one knows what happens, you know?

08:16

No, we do. God tells us. I mean, sure. You said you're a Christian, right? Absolutely. Okay, you believe the

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Bible? Yes. Okay, if God says it... I believe the basis of the Bible. Okay, what does that mean, though?

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It means that you need to accept... If God says it, does that settle it for you? You need to accept Jesus Christ. Why? Because we are called to do so.

08:36

For what reason? Because he was the embodiment... What's wrong with us? He was the embodiment of God. What's wrong with us? Because we've already gone through this.

08:41

We're all sinners. Right. And there's nothing that any of us can do. And what does a sinner need to do? Repent. So you're telling a sinner that he needs to repent, and then you're getting on a fellow sinner for telling those sinners that they need to repent.

08:53

You're not telling those sinners... I want you to think about that. You're not telling those sinners they need to repent. I want you to think about something. What you're telling those sinners is babies are murdered here.

09:00

No, I'm telling this community, surrounding community, those people that stand outside the doors and usher these women in, and yes,

09:08

I'm also telling the women that if they go through with this, because God has spoken in his law very clearly that if they carry out this, then yes, he will see them as murderers.

09:18

The law begins in the heart, and they have premeditated the murder of their own child in their hearts before they walk through those doors.

09:24

I just gave you an example. So what do you have to say about the population rising at an extreme rate as well?

09:30

Should we kill children in order to preserve that? So I'm not agreeing with abortions. Right.

09:36

Well, you raised the objection. What I'm disagreeing with is you all standing out here with signs on a very public street that says babies are murdered here.

09:43

We're telling the truth about what happens there. This is bringing very raw emotions to light. Oh, man, if you could only be here to see it.

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Emotions that can ruin lives. If you could only be here to see it. I know. I understand that. These emotions can ruin lives.

09:55

They can push you into a depression that you can't come out from. I agree. Sure, you're helping one in ten, but you're hurting three in ten.

10:03

What I'm saying is you guys don't get to talk to every person. That's true. We try. Absolutely, you try, but you get .0008

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% of the people that you're spreading a message to. A message that, in my opinion, is hatred, which in my opinion is why

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I come back to I believe you guys are sinners for being here. So I just want to make sure I understand. The hatred. Okay, so I'm a sinner and I need to repent of what

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I'm doing. Yes. Okay, so thank you for just reasoning against yourself.

10:32

I don't think you need to repent of what you're doing. You just told me what I did. You're right, because you're leading questions.

10:38

No, I'm not leading you. I'm challenging you to see that your reasoning is absolutely inconsistent. How so?

10:43

Let me demonstrate it for you. You told me that I'm wrong for calling other people to repentance because they're sinners.

10:49

No, you can call people to repentance. That's fine. Right, and you sat there and told me that I needed to repent for what I'm doing, sir. That's hypocrisy.

10:55

I'm not saying you need to repent for being here. Scripture condemns hypocrisy. I'm saying you need to think about this situation differently. I have, and I praise

11:01

God that he is saving children. There's churches all over the country that are doing this work right now. We can agree with that. That's wonderful.

11:06

Amen. That's wonderful. So should we be here? Should those babies be dead? You should be here in a different way, is what I'm trying to say.

11:12

Should those babies be dead? Which babies? The babies that are alive now. Which ones? They wouldn't be if we weren't here.

11:18

I can almost guarantee one of those children is going to end up with a lot of pain in their lives. So their parents should have killed them then.

11:24

I'm not saying that. Well, what should they have done? It depends on what situation their parents have gone through. Everybody walks through life with different windows.

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Everybody goes through different stages of their life that will lead them to have to make a horrendous decision like this.

11:38

Yeah, does that change God's truth? One of billions of horrendous decisions that someone may be led to make in their life.

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Does it change God's truth about what it is? Absolutely not. No. Then he calls them to repent, doesn't he? Absolutely. All right, so that's why we're here.

11:49

So you guys don't have to tell people that babies are being murdered here. No, we do. We do. Not everyone knows that.

11:54

Not everyone knows that drives by that there's a Planned Parenthood back here. I didn't know until I saw you guys here.

12:00

Now you know that there's children being murdered there. So what about the women that are in there that are devastated by what they're doing right now?

12:06

Why are they devastated? Because they're being reminded that babies are being murdered here. Okay, is that a violation of some type of law?

12:13

No. Murdering your child isn't? No, abortion is not. Okay, so abortion isn't murder.

12:19

Like I said, we can half agree on that and half disagree on that. Well, can you answer that? Is the child in the womb a human being from conception?

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Can the child support without his mother? Well, first answer mine and then I'll answer yours. Is it a human being from conception?

12:34

It's a human being from conception? I'll give you that yes. Okay, well I'm glad. A human within a human? Sure. Well let me tell you something,

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I'm glad that you agree with that because that's what God says. He creates all life, life begins at conception,

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Psalm 139. Just like a deer within a deer is still a deer. But a deer isn't the image of God is my point. But can a child be supporting on his own without his mother?

12:53

So I want you to think about something right now. I'm going to answer the question, okay? The answer is no, you don't have to answer. No, well let me answer first, okay?

13:00

The objection that you're raising, it's interesting. I usually hear it from people that are set on this issue and that want to murder their children.

13:08

They're supporting other people that do it and here's the answer. The question that you asked in terms of can a person survive in the womb, it needs its mother, right?

13:19

It can't survive, right? Yes. So now I'm going to push you to consistency again. You ready? Okay. The person, the elderly who's on oxygen right now can't breathe apart from a machine.

13:30

Do we have the right to kill that person? They would have the right to kill themselves. I see.

13:37

So that person has the say over what they want done. Absolutely. So does the child in the womb, do you think they would agree to being torn into pieces?

13:44

That child can't comprehend what's going on. Okay, so because let's say some... A person on oxygen can comprehend his life has gone over 90 years.

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Someone in a coma, someone in a coma, no brain function, no motor function, nothing like that. Can we walk in the room and cut their throat?

13:59

There's been laws that families have come in and cut cords. It depends on what state you're in obviously too, but...

14:05

Right. Okay, so you agree that just like we can kill a child in the womb because they're dependent upon their mother, we can also kill people in comas, we can kill the elderly hooked up on ventilators.

14:16

We're allowed to do that. So you're taking what I say as a generalization? No, I'm taking it and pushing you to consistency.

14:22

You're not consistent. It's impossible to be consistent. Do you know how many people we have that are going through different situations?

14:29

Like yes, abortion is wrong. Yes, there are situations we can warrant a decision to get an abortion.

14:37

Like what? What justifies the murder of a child in the womb? So kill all the poor kids. No, but do you really...

14:43

That's what you're advocating for. So you're really saying a single mom who makes $10 ,000 a year should have a child? Shouldn't kill her child.

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She should have a child? She shouldn't murder her baby. So what is she going to do with the child? She should get help from us.

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We'll help her. We'll pay for whatever she needs. The church of Jesus Christ... The vast majority does not know that. The church of Jesus Christ is the ones that will help her.

15:02

So why don't you say... They're the ones that should help her. Why can't you be out here with signs that say, we will help you with your child? Oh, we have those.

15:08

Would you like to see them? I just don't support the babies that are being murdered here signs. Well, I know because you disagree with God and his word.

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Although you're claiming to be a Christian. No, you can call it murder, but what I disagree... I can't. That's what God calls it. That's what

15:19

I'm saying. But what I disagree with is the emotions that you're going to be bringing up within the vast majority of these women who very well could be easily pushed into depression and suicide.

15:29

Right. And I don't believe that with that threat. I value... It seems to me what you're saying is this.

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In order to maintain the sensitivities of the woman, I should forfeit my voice so that they go inside and be able to kill their child because they may feel bad.

15:45

I can hear why you hear that. Absolutely. Sure. We can say that. Okay. To maintain the sensitivities. So you care more about the emotional state of the woman than the actual life of the child.

15:55

I absolutely care more about the woman than her unborn child. Okay. Thank you. That's why

16:00

I'm here. Right. So you just demonstrated that you're not consistent. You don't believe what God's word says, that that child in the womb is in fact a human being.

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The only difference... It's a human that cannot live without his mother. The only difference is size, level of development, environment, and degree of dependence.

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We don't kill people based on how big they are. We don't kill people based on how developed they are. We don't kill people based on where they're located.

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And we don't kill people based on how dependent they are on other people, my friend. My two -year -old, do you know how dependent he is on me?

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Very. Should I kill him? No, but he can live without you. No, he can't. Yes, he can. If I left him alone, he would die.

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But if you... Okay, so say you take out... Okay, just say... Friend, there's no reasoning that will justify this.

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Hypothetically, you take out an unborn baby from the child and you give it to someone else, that baby's dead. You could give your child to someone else and they could take care of your child.

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So wait, you're endorsing someone giving up their child so someone else can take care of it? Sure. We're on the same page.

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That's why we cry out, we'll adopt your baby. That's wonderful. Don't murder your child. That's what I'm saying, like, go there with it.

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That's what we say. Do you want to know what we say? I'll tell you what we say. Okay? Number one, abortion is murder.

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God is the creator of all life. Number two, there's forgiveness in Jesus Christ. If you put your faith in him, if you repent and turn to Jesus Christ, you'll have forgiveness of all your sins.

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And number three, we'll help you with anything that you need. So you would say you care, you'd probably say you care for them equally, the mother and her unborn child.

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I can respect that. I hope so, because that's what God's word says. I just care more about the person that's contributing.

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Right, you care more about the person you can see rather than the person you can't see. The person I can feel and connect with, absolutely.

17:44

Right, yeah. So I want to encourage you in something with love. That's not the view of the

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God of Scripture. And he commands you. You talked about your mind. Repentance, what that word means, is having a change of mind.

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You need to have a change of mind about what God says about you and about the unborn children of whom he sees them as equally valuable as made in his image.

18:05

That's what he says. So it's you that needs to come to grips with that. You say you're a

18:11

Christian. I hear you. I feel the exact same way about you. Well, you notice something.

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I've been giving you a couple of scriptures. There's been no answer. Now, how would you substantiate your position as a

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Christian who says that he stands on the word of God? Where would you tell me that I'm violating

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God's commandment by what I'm doing in the Bible? So you'll say you're spreading love, but in my opinion, you're not spreading love.

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There you go. So it's your opinion. Absolutely. It's not the word of God. Sure. All right, so you're wrong.

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But according to the word of God, you think you're spreading love. And I believe that to be self -righteous.

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Proverbs 24. Rescue those who are being led away to death. Hold back those who are stumbling towards the slaughter.

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And if you say you didn't know, does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does he not keep watch over your soul, and will he not repay man according to his work?

18:59

We're obeying that. How are you obeying that today? I'm obeying that by saying, hey, there's a lot of different ways to think about this, and it isn't babies are murdered here.

19:08

No, there's one way, and that's the way God sees it in his word. And my friend, you've got to come to grips with that if you're a Christian.

19:13

All right, sir. Your opinion means nothing. So now you're questioning my faith, and that's where we have an issue now, and I'm going to let you guys get back on with your day.

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The scripture gives me the right to do that. Absolutely. If you're not standing on God's word. I'm not saying you don't have the right, but I'm saying

19:27

I don't have to listen to you. Right. No, that's fine, but I want to encourage you. You need to repent in terms of your way of thinking about this.

19:35

God's the creator of all life. He says in Exodus 20, verse 13, you shall not murder.

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He's the creator of every single life that comes into existence, and they're a human being from conception. So to take that life unjustly with malice of forethought is murder.

19:51

Where in the Bible does it say that they're a human being from conception? Psalm 139 talks specifically about God forming us all in the womb, right?

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He says, For you form my inward parts, you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.

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Continually formed up until you can withstand. Dude, I'm with you.

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You can't kill a human being at any stage of development, including an unborn child. Okay. I agree with you.

20:17

Now I'm telling you, you've got to be consistent with what God's word says about when that life begins. That's what

20:22

I'm telling you. I don't feel that you guys have the right to be doing what you're doing. We not only have the right, but we're commissioned by God, and according to Jesus Christ.

20:31

That's where my problem is, and that's why I'm still here. That's because you're not leaning on scripture. I'm just so against that.

20:36

I know, you're not leaning on scripture. I just think you're misinterpreting what is being said. I don't think you need to be out here with signs that say, babies are murdered here.

20:45

I don't believe that. Well, I believe what God says about it, and I'm going to stand with his truth rather than your opinion.

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And that's what I'm saying, and that's why when I came, You agree with me? Yes. So I'm standing on his truth, and you're standing on opinion.

20:59

That's why I said, I'm not telling you I'm right. I'm not telling you you're wrong. I'm just saying, consider.

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Just consider that what I have to say comes from God. And I want you to consider something. You said,

21:11

I don't want to tell you I'm right and you're wrong. Sure. And then you told me to repent. I said, I mean,

21:16

I didn't. You said, are you telling me to repent? And I said, sure. Yeah. Like, my issue with people that are on the same page as you is you kind of just look at everything with one very clear lane of looking.

21:33

Amen. It's just not like that. Jesus says, Father, thy word is truth. And I mean, there's a lot of ways to do it, but it's just not that easy.

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As a Christian, Jesus says, Father, thy word is truth. The grass withers and the flower fades, but the word of our

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God will stand forever. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away. God's word is truth.

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It tells me what I'm to believe about him, and it tells me the duty that he requires of me as an image bearer and as a redeemed image bearer in Jesus Christ.

22:02

Great. That's what I'm standing on as a Christian. You're standing on your opinion, my friend. Sure. All right.

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And like I said, And I implore you to repent and believe scripture. My opinion comes from a much deeper place than a book.

22:15

All right. So thank you. You demonstrated that you're not a Christian. Like I said, sir,

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I'm going to have to cut you off when you start questioning my faith. Right. You're not a Christian, sir. You won't stand on the word of God.

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God's going to hold you accountable for that, my friend. Don't deceive yourself into believing your standard is above God's word, and you need to repent of that.

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It's not your opinion. It's God's truth. Oh, you claim to be a

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Christian and then claim to deny the Bible. So just the usual. Jesus says we're called to judge with righteous judgment, sir.