Mormon teens surround Durbin at the Temple

Is it from the temple? I've got it a hundred times before. Yeah, we're here because we care about you guys.

Yeah, I care about myself.

Joseph Smith, Becoming a God, and the God of the Bible

Yeah, well that's good. Do you know Joseph Smith taught about becoming a god one day?

No.

Are you LDS?

Yeah.

And you don't know what he taught about becoming a god?

Well, I mean, yeah, you'll become a god, but not like...

Yeah.

I mean, you're huge, man.

But that's the goal though, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, and Joseph taught you that you've got to become gods yourselves, the same way all gods have done before you.

Yeah.

Have you guys ever looked at the scriptures to see what God says about that?

No.

You haven't? So, if I were to give you a verse, say Isaiah 4310. Just one verse.

Is that in the Bible?

That's Isaiah, yeah, in the Bible. King James says, Before me there was no god formed, neither shall there be after me. So God taught that there were no gods before him or after him. So what would you say to God when he tells you that he didn't have any gods before him, nor will there be any after him?

What would you say?

I don't know.

Are you sure he talks about on this earth or just from eternity?

Yeah, matter of fact, in Deuteronomy 4, 35 and 39, he says... Deuteronomy.

It's a book in the Bible.

It's in the Old Testament.

I don't...

In the Old Testament. You believe in the Bible, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, in the Bible it says, He's the only God in the heavens above and on the earth below. There is no other.

Oh my gosh, are you kidding?

Well, we also...

Really?

We also believe that heaven is a planet.

And so...

We also believe heaven is a planet, so he could also mean that there's no other God on...

Well, he says,.

In the heavens above and on the earth below, there is no other. There is no other. He says he doesn't even know of any other gods. So Joseph taught there's a council of gods...

Can you show us that scripture?

Sure, yeah, I'll show you right now.

This is fun.

Hey, come here.

Come talk to this guy.

He's fun.

Come on over here so that we don't block you.

I like this one because he's not telling me I'm not going to heaven.

Well, I mean, if you trust in a false Christ, you have a Christ that can't save you.

So anybody who trusts in a false...

No, no, he was just telling me I wasn't going to heaven, and he was.

Well...

So Isaiah 43, 10. You are my witnesses, declares the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after me.

Are you sure that's not, like, interpreted wrong?

Four.

No, it's just a translation.

Yeah, I know, but...

It's an English translation.

Yeah, but, like, sometimes when you translate it wrong, it, like...

Do you believe the King James Bible is the Word of God?

Yeah. Yes.

Okay, so, insofar that it's correctly translated, right? Well, Isaiah 43, 10 is correctly translated. It says, you are my witnesses, declares the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and understand that before me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after me.

He says, I have an eye on the Lord. Besides me there is no Savior. Even from eternity, I am he. So Joseph denied that. He denied that God's been God from all eternity. So, for example, here's what's important.

I don't want to quibble with you guys about non-essentials like, why don't you guys drink coffee? What's with the silly, you know, underwear situation? I don't care about that.

Underwear, what?

Garments.

Simple garments. So I think that that's a ridiculous conversation. It doesn't really need to be had right now. But what does need to be had is the fact that Jesus said that he's the way, the truth, and the life.

Do you guys agree with that?

Yeah.

He's the only way to the Father.

What was that verse you were reading?

Isaiah what?

Isaiah 43, 10. So Jesus said he was the only way to the Father. We all agree with that, right?

Yeah.

Like, we're all in agreement. But the Bible also warns that there are other Jesuses that are false Christs. They're not the real Jesus. So, for example, and this is really important, do you guys believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers?

It says so.

They're brothers, right?

And we're brothers with them, right?

No.

We're all spirit offspring of Elohim, correct?

Who's Elohim?

Elohim is Heavenly Father according to Mormonism.

Uh, sir? I think this is my difference.

Yeah, you're my witnesses.

I quoted it to you.

You're my witnesses.

Say it to the Lord.

And my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

That's his.

It's his phone.

So the point there, and you can look at it right there in King James, before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Our point is it's...

Yeah, this is the English Standard Version. This is the King James Version. This is a 1611 English translation. This is a modern English translation. Same thing.

The modern world is like changing.

But it's based on the Hebrew text. It's based on the Hebrew text. So in 1611 English they were translating from the Hebrew text into that modern English of the day. Today I can look at Hebrew and read it.

We can do a translation right now. So here's a big point to make. Jesus in Scripture is the creator of Lucifer. You don't believe that, do you?

We have a different story to that.

I know you do. But your story isn't from the Bible, though, is it? Because Jesus says... The Bible says in Colossians 1 .16 For by him that Jesus were all things created in the heavens and on the earth, whether visible or invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or rulers or authority.

It says in Colossians 1 that Jesus created Satan. So do you see there's a different Christ? Mormonism teaches that Jesus is Lucifer's brother. The Bible teaches that Jesus is the creator of Lucifer. Those aren't the same person.

According to Colossians 1, he did. And John chapter 1. Well, Colossians is in your Bible. You have the King James Bible, right?

So instead of arguing, how about we do something a little bit more larger than arguing between two religions? Because that's like arguing over a piece of rock. It's going to stay the same no matter what.

You guys can see it differently.

Well, I do believe that God has to open your eyes to truth.

So yes, but...

So what makes your religion different from, let's say, Christianity or the Baptists or all those religions? What do they have wrong that you have right? Not Mormonism, but those churches themselves.

Well, Baptists are Christians.

Presbyterians are Christians. Methodists are Christians. Reformed Anglicans are Christians. We all believe the same God, the same gospel. So if you were to talk to a Presbyterian right now and a Baptist, they would give you the same God, the same gospel.

Mormonism fundamentally has a different God and a different gospel. You guys use our terminology, but you are in fact not following the Jesus of the Bible. You believe you can become gods one day. God says that there's no gods after him.

He's the first and last. You believe that Jesus is Lucifer's brother. Jesus in the Bible created Satan. He's the eternal God.

Excuse me, but that's not my question. I asked what makes your church different from the Christians, the Baptists.

We are Christian.

But yours has the Anathist Church.

What's that?

Yours is the Anathist Church, or however you say that.

The what church?

Apologia.

Your church, yes.

Apologia is just the name on our building. But we're Orthodox Christians. It's just the name of our particular body. But we're Christians, we're Baptists, we're...

Why aren't we Christians if we believe in God and Jesus?

You believe in a different Jesus who doesn't exist.

No, that does exist.

If Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, he's the only way to the Father, and you believe in a different Christ,.

You don't have the one that is the way to the Father.

So, no, no, no. There's nothing about translation here.

The Bible says that Jesus created Satan.

John chapter 1 says, in the beginning was the Word.

That's Jesus.

Let me finish here. No, no. You keep saying translation, and I'll do it in Greek. Are you ready?

Presence.

You don't understand it, do you?

No.

So, I have to translate it, don't I?

Yeah, but...

Okay. So, the New Testament was written in Greek. If you can't read Greek, then you need an English translation. So, let me translate it for you. Let me translate it for you. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

That's Jesus.

Everything that's been created, it says in John 1, has been created by Jesus. And nothing came into being, that's come into being, except through Him. Did Satan come into being?

No. Yes.

Satan never came into being? So, he's not a spirit child, then, of our Heavenly Father?

No.

You told me a moment ago he is.

He's a spirit child.

He's not.

Did Elohim produce Lucifer and us in the pre-existence?

Yes. No.

Thank you. Mormon theology teaches that. He did. So, Satan came into being, didn't he? It says in John chapter 1,.

That Jesus created everything.

That's come into being.

This church teaches you a false Christ.

And that's the issue we have. It's not about the small details that we differ on each other on.

We really care about your souls.

And a bigger issue, too, is how is a person reconciled to God? The Bible teaches us through faith in Christ and in Him alone.

Your church teaches you that.

Through obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel, you'll be saved.

Your church teaches you that it's by grace.

You've been saved after all you can do. That's a condemning message. The Bible says that it's through Christ and Christ alone, apart from works of law through faith, that we're declared righteous in God's eyes.

It's a gift of God's grace.

This church teaches you that.

Faith and works save you. It's not the righteousness of Jesus alone through faith in Him.

It's your works as well.

Now, I know that right now you guys are all hanging out and having a good time. But I just want you to hear from my heart how much we care for you and how serious this issue is. If you believe in a false Christ, you have a Christ that can't save.

The Muslim Denial of the Cross and the Need for Scripture

Now, this is something we'll all have common ground on. You look familiar. Have we met before? Have you been here before?

Yeah.

I think I've seen you. Were you here last year?

No.

I was like... Last time I came out,.

I was like 11 or 12.

Your face is familiar. I've been here since... for 15 years.

Um...

Okay, so, real important.

Watch this. We'll all agree on this, right? Do you guys agree with the Muslims when they say that Jesus is not the Son of God?

No.

Do you believe what the Muslims say that he did not die on a cross?

No.

I don't...

Now, watch this. The Muslims...

Well, that's...

Here's the problem with that because there is a difference between fact and religion. The fact was, no matter what you believe in, that did happen. That did really...

How do you know it happened?

Because the Romans wrote it down and at the time...

What Romans wrote it down?

At the time, the Catholics were in rule. And so, the Catholics.

Were the ones in charge.

The Catholics were in rule.

During when Jesus was crucified?

No.

No, the Catholic Church didn't come into being... The Roman Catholic Church didn't come into being until hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years after the time of the Resurrection. Rome was in charge during the time of Jesus' crucifixion.

Okay.

So, this is really important and this is what I want to get to.

We all agree...

No, no, this...

It's nice to me.

Yeah, it's okay. The most important thing is I bet you, if I was a Muslim and I walk to you guys right now, tell me that you wouldn't do this. If I was a Muslim and I said to you, you know what? Jesus did not die on a cross.

He did not rise from the dead.

What would you go to.

To show me that I was in fact wrong?

Scriptures.

Thank you. Exactly right. You're 100 right. And so, what's important here...

I'll go to Google.

What's important here is that when a Muslim denies that Jesus died and rose from the dead, you recognize that that's not Jesus.

You would say,.

That's not Jesus and you'd go to the Bible.

To prove it.

That's what we're doing with you guys is we're saying.

That Jesus this church teaches you.

Is in fact not the Jesus of Scripture and we're going to the Bible.

To do it.

Remember these passages, guys. John chapter 1 and Colossians 1.

It teaches that.

Jesus is the eternal God.

Who created Satan. This church teaches you.

That Jesus is one God among many. He's not the eternal God and you can become a God one day.

This church teaches you.

That Lucifer and Jesus.

Are brothers.

The Bible says.

Jesus is the creator of Lucifer.

This church teaches you.

That you must,.

Through obedience.

To the laws and ordinances of the Gospel, progress to become a God one day.

Right?

In order to become a God, you have to be a faithful Mormon.

Correct?

I love this guy.

This guy is honest.

But the Bible teaches.

And I want to hear your question.

The Bible teaches you.

That faith in Christ alone.

Is what saves.

Apart from works of law. It's a gift of God's grace. That's what's important to hear, guys.

Joseph Smith's False Prophecies and Biblical Tests of a Prophet

Okay, go ahead with your question.

So you just said there's false prophets that would come.

Yes.

Okay, that's a good question. It's a fair question. Where I'm coming to you from.

Is the Scriptures.

As my ultimate authority. So when you ask me a question like who are your prophets, who are your apostles, I'll point you.

To the Scriptures.

My ultimate authority is the Bible. Now, have you guys ever tested Joseph Smith as a prophet?

What do you mean?

Well, in the Old Testament, God gave us.

At least two tests.

Of a prophet. One is if he led you after other gods. In Deuteronomy 13, God says if he leads you after other gods, he's a false prophet.

So even if it looks good,.

But he leads you after a different god, he's a false prophet. The second test is if he has any.

False prophecies,.

Even one, he's a false prophet. Did you know that Joseph Smith had false prophecies? Well, he taught that Jesus was going to come back in his generation before he died?

In whose generation? What's that?

In Joseph's generation.

He taught that.

Jesus was going to return.

In the...

Well, I can show you.

If you want to see in your own documents. I'm okay. Thank you, though.

You can just leave him right there.

Thank you.

Alright.

These are photocopies.

So you can look at it later.

You can look it up. Because it's a question...

It's a fair question.

To ask.

Where does it say that?

What...

More like what.

Scripture is this?

The Journal of Discourses,.

History of the Church,.

Stuff like that. This isn't.

The Mormon one?

Yes, it is.

It's from your church.

There's a difference.

Between a mistake.

And a false prophecy.

No, these are.

False prophecies.

Okay. Watch here.

This is...

You can look up the reference later. Okay?

I encourage you.

To check it out.

This is.

History of the Church,.

Volume 2, page 182. This was given by Joseph in 1835.

Look what Joseph.

Says here.

That it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. So what he's going to say is not on his own. It's from the Holy Spirit.

Okay?

That's really important.

And he says that basically God had called the meeting. The saints were to.

Go forth to prune.

The vineyard for the last time of the coming of the Lord, which was near. Even 56 years should wind up on the scene. That was in 1835. 56 years from 1835? It's time. It has come and gone. There's another example.

Here in.

History of the Church, Volume 1. Joseph laid hands on someone named Lyman White. And after he laid hands on him,.

Look what it says.

This is in your church's...

This is your church's.

Materials and documents. This is not from anti-Mormons.

This is from your church.

What book is this?

This is called... Where does it say that?

It's photocopies of your documents.

Where did you get this from?

This right here.

Is basically a collection of photocopies of your pages.

So what you can do is later...

Journal of Discourses...

Can you actually buy this?

You can go pick up a copy of this down the road.

But if you get the references,.

If you write these down, you can go home, you can Google search Journal of Discourses.

You look these.

Right up yourself.

You can see it.

With your own eyes.

What did he say about Lyman White?

Okay.

So Lyman White gets his hands laid on him.

And it says this.

After he had prophesied, he had laid his hands upon Lyman White.

That's Joseph.

Okay?

And ordained him to the high priesthood. After the holy order of God.

And the Spirit.

Fell upon Lyman and he prophesied concerning the coming of Christ, he said that there were some in the congregation that should live.

And so the Savior.

Should descend from heaven with a shout.

With all the holy angels.

With him. He said the coming.

Of the Savior.

Should be like the sun rising in the east and will cover.

The whole earth. So if you can see.

And there's other examples too I can give to you from D &C.

Joseph taught that Jesus.

Was going to return in his generation.

Now here,.

I want to tell you something because I want you to hear my heart on this.

Joseph Smith's translation?

No, this is.

The history of the church. Real quickly.

Before you go,.

Just for one minute.

Joseph, if Jesus.

Had any false prophecies, we have to reject them according to God.

Yeah.

That's God's test.

Joseph had.

Multiple false prophecies.

Like, the people.

In the congregation.

There's people who would live to see it.

He said there were.

People in the congregation it would happen.

Before they all died.

Okay, so what? So you guys believe like from John the Beloved,.

Right?

From the Bible?

John the...

Oh,.

The apostle Jesus' love.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay,.

Do you guys believe.

That like,.

What do you guys believe.

Like,.

What blessing do you think Jesus put on him? What do you guys believe?

About John,.

Jesus'.

Apostle. What do we believe,.

What do we believe about him?

What do you believe about John?

Well,.

John was the one that buried Jesus' mom in Ephesus. Jesus told him to take care of his mom.

Okay.

John was.

Basically.

Told that he was going to survive until the time of Jesus coming in judgment.

On Jerusalem.

Before Jesus returned.

In judgment on Jerusalem. John was in Patmos,.

He wrote Revelation.

Okay, wait,.

So you just said that he would survive until Jesus coming up Jerusalem?

That happened in 70 AD.

Yeah,.

But what if John was still alive.

And he was in that congregation?

Because we believe that he is living until Christ's next coming.

I know you, I know you.

People don't know.

What he looks like, so he could, he could have just been like a random person.

In the congregation.

I think what's being,.

I feel where you're coming from, but I think there's a lot of biblical and historical stuff you've got to look at about John, the Apostle, to see when he died. We know where he died, when he died, but Joseph Smith.

Didn't just teach.

In one place.

That Jesus.

Was going to return.

To his generation,.

He taught in multiple places. And it was even 56 years from 1835.

So,.

And what I'd love for you to do is if you come back, I can write down these references for you, you can look them up yourself,.

But the big issue here.

Is this, listen,.

It's not on you guys, if Joseph Smith's a false prophet, it's not your fault.

Okay,.

I know that, but it's not your fault if he has false prophecies and he teaches a false god. It is your responsibility if you begin to embrace and teach others.