WWUTT 2605 Q&A Yoked with Unbelievers, Spirit or Conscience, Conspiracy Theories

If you know a Christian in a relationship with an unbeliever, is that a matter for church discipline?

That voice you heard in your head, was that your conscience or the Holy Spirit? And what do we do when conspiracy theories come in the church?

The answer is when we understand the text. This is

When We Understand the Text, a daily Bible commentary in the Word of God, that we may be conformed to the image of Christ.

Tell all your friends about our ministry at www .utt .com. Here once again is

Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. I'm going to come back to Acts chapter 8. We've been in Acts 8 last week and this week.

This was where Philip and Peter encountered a man by the name of Simon Magus, or Simon the

Magician. There was a man named Simon who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great.

They all paid attention to him from the least to the greatest, saying, this man is the power of God that is called great.

And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic. But when they believed

Philip, as he preached the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Even Simon himself believed. And after being baptized, he continued with Philip.

And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed. Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them

Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

For he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the

Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. Now when

Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, saying, give me this power also, so that anyone on whom

I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit. But Peter said to him, may your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money.

You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.

Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord that if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity. And Simon answered, pray for me to the

Lord that nothing of what you have said may come upon me. Babe, have you heard of simony before?

Do you know what simony is? No. Simony is the crime or the sin of buying or selling sacred offices, sacraments or ordinances, spiritual powers or other kinds of holy things.

Interesting. And that expression simony comes from this story right here in Acts chapter 8.

Oh, neat. Because of Simon the magician who tried to buy the ability to grant the

Holy Spirit to others. What a thing to be known for. Yeah, right. Now he's marked in history by this word, simony, this sin.

So I mentioned that on the podcast this week that there were some Greek Orthodox churches that have been exposed on social media lately for charging people for baptism.

And it could be anywhere from like 250 bucks to $2 ,000 that I've seen in some places.

And the Eastern Orthodox, which include like Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc.

I mean, do they have to pump the water or something? They put gold flakes in it, you know, get a little bit of silver in there or something.

Oh, boy. They also teach that you have to be baptized to be safe. Of course they do.

So salvation is by baptism. Yes, if you haven't been baptized, you're not safe. So they are selling salvation for exorbitant amounts of money.

Now, some people, some who were Eastern Orthodox were pushing back on this and were saying that, no, no, no, this is for special occasions, which are not really helping your case.

No, not really at all. You're still charging for baptism. Because it's a big party, like they have the decorations to pay for and the food and everything.

I mean, like what, why? Right. I'm so confused. Yeah, like robes. Yeah. But you're also paying the personnel.

So the person that's going to be there to baptize you gets paid. Okay. And so the

Eastern Orthodox have been pushing back on, or the ortho bros, as they're called on social media.

Okay. Not terribly kind guys on top of this. But anyway, they've been pushing back on it saying that, you know, this is a special occasion sort of a thing, and you have to pay for these special occasions.

This is after hours. This is after their regular hours. So you got to pay them for this.

Well, they think that's a gotcha. But I've done baptisms that were not part of the regular

Sunday morning service. Right. And I've never charged anybody for that. Yep. You don't charge for that.

That's just the regular duties that I have as a pastor. And it doesn't matter if it's on Sunday morning or any other time.

If we have a baptism service, you don't have to pay me extra for that. That is just our service.

So anyway, one person that I had encountered over this who was Orthodox, I had asked him, like, show me on any of these websites where it says that this is only for special occasions, and it's not what it would cost you anyway, no matter what the baptism, no matter when it was, whether it was during a

Sunday morning worship or Sunday evening or during the week, and he would not respond to my request.

Ah. So as far as I can tell, this is just what it costs you in an Eastern Orthodox Church. To get baptized, it's going to cost you money.

So that was the example that I gave regarding simony. But the reason why I picked this up is because there was another one that I came across that's a good example of simony.

Okay. So I'm about to do a video on this. There is this tech company that is called

Just Like Me. Okay. And they have created an AI Jesus. So you can talk to this

AI Jesus and pray with him, pray with it. Yeah. Okay.

Pray to it. Yes. I mean, just your usual AI opinion generator. Whatever you put into the

AI, it's going to spit back out at you based on algorithms, your preferences, so on and so forth. Right. Right.

They've just done this. To make you happy. With a Jesus. Right. Right. They've created an AI Jesus that you can pray with.

It'll remember your conversations with it. It can even speak multiple different languages.

Okay. Okay. Your communication with this AI Jesus costs $1 .99.

Oh, dear. Per minute. Whoa, what? Yes. $1 .99

per minute. What? Furthermore, they have modeled this

AI Jesus after Jonathan Rumi, who plays Jesus in The Chosen.

Of course they did. Now, here's my question, and I don't know if this is the case or not. I've not been able to find any answers to this.

Did Jonathan Rumi give this tech company permission to use his likeness for their

AI Jesus? Good question. Or maybe Dallas Jenkins, who's the creator of The Chosen. Did he give them permission to use

Rumi's likeness? I would imagine he probably owns Rumi's likeness to a certain degree.

Possibly. They use it in the animated version of The Chosen, which is on Amazon Prime. Okay. So you have the animated

Jonathan Rumi on there. Okay. So to some degree, he possesses Jonathan Rumi's identity.

Yeah. His appearance, right? So did they give permission to this tech company to create this

AI Jesus after Jonathan Rumi? In which case, what a horrible thing to do.

Because people are going to be looking at Jonathan Rumi and thinking that they're praying to Jesus through this

AI program, furthermore paying $1 .99 per minute to do it. Per minute.

Like the whole thing is so extremely crooked. Do they get... Would Rumi get a kickback off of this?

Does he get a royalty? That's what I was wondering. I don't know. That's crazy. Per minute.

I just can't get over that. Per minute. Yeah. So that's Simony selling prayers for $1 .99

per minute. That's just for the... Yeah. I mean, who makes that much? Who makes $1 .99?

Yeah. If you imagine thousands of people praying to this thing at the same time and paying $1 .99

per minute. Now, you wouldn't be praying to God. You're talking to an AI. Right. It's fake.

It's an idol. You're talking... And furthermore, the tech company is called

Just Like Me. So what's the Jesus that you're getting from this tech company?

Just Like Me. It's a Jesus that's just like me. Yeah. Oh, my. Something that is programmed according to an algorithm that responds to your preferences.

And somebody is going to be thinking that they're praying to Jesus when they talk to this thing. Unbelievable. It's incredible.

That is crazy. That is one of the most remarkable instances, I think, of Simony that I've ever seen.

And shame on everybody that is involved in this. You know, AI can be a very useful tool. And I've used it for a few things, just asking questions here and there.

I find it more effective than using search engines anymore. Yeah. Not always accurate.

Sometimes it contradicts itself. Yeah. But for the most part. It definitely does. Yeah. For the most part. Yeah. It's a lot faster.

That's for sure. I have had some mixed results on certain things. But I still feel like the results that I get are better than a search engine.

Oh, yes. I was getting exasperated with Google anyway. Plus, Google is using their...

What is it? Chat GPT? That's Google? I don't know. When you search anything, it's automatically going to spit out a chat

GPT answer at you. Yeah. Every time. Or OpenAI. I can't remember what it is. What is the one that...

It says AI overview right here when I look at it. But it doesn't say which AI it is.

Anyway. So, you can tell how much I keep up with all of this. I don't remember whose AI is what. Obviously, I'm in the loop, too.

I know Grok is X. Yeah. I remember that one. OpenAI, I think, is its own thing.

There's chat GPT. What was the other one? Oh, Claude. Oh, there's a whole bunch of them.

I know there's a lot. I know there's a bunch of them. Zachary and I have been using one for generating music tracks.

And we've been playing with that. Just for fun. I haven't used it in anything. So, if you've watched a What video and you heard a music track, oh,

I wonder if that's what Gabe's been generating now. I haven't used it. I don't really like the quality of it.

Yeah. But it gives me ideas... Right. ...for other projects that I'm working on. But anyway, all right.

So, this is the Friday edition of the broadcast, and we take questions from the listeners. And you can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

I'm mostly responding to emails today. But you can also send us a voicemail by going to speakpipe .com

slash wwutt. Speakpipe. Speakpipe. That's the service we've been using for voicemails.

That's so fun. Yeah. I like that. Well, it's the same one we've been using. So, what is it?

It's been over a year now, I think. But I never knew that it was Speakpipe. Yeah, it was called Speakpipe. You always, like, say, click on this link.

Well, yeah, because I was sending people to the website. Right. But I still don't have the website done. Oh, man.

So, I may as well just tell you, it's speakpipe .com slash wwutt. There you go. Remember, our friend

Sonia sent us our first ever voicemail. Do you remember that? Yes. Because we were testing it.

And so, we said, hey, Sonia, call us and ask a question. So, I can see that this works. That was awesome.

So, I got a voicemail I'm going to get to in a moment. This first question comes from David. And he says, hi. To get right to it.

He's getting right to the question. Perfect. Do you think that it rises to the level of church discipline for a church member to actively pursue a dating relationship with a non -believer?

Have you ever had to deal with this? Hope to get some insight. Thanks. Okay. So, it depends.

Is your first confrontation with this person, would that count as church discipline? You're certainly following the instructions that Jesus gave in Matthew 18, verses 15 to 17.

So, there in Matthew 18 is where Jesus says how discipline is to be handled in the church.

Verse 15 is, if your brother sins against you, go and approach your brother just between the two of you and show him his fault.

And if he listens to you, then you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, you bring two or three others along that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.

If he does not listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he does not listen to the church, let him be to you as a

Gentile or a tax collector. Essentially, he's an outsider or an unbeliever at that point. So, you should approach this person who is in a relationship with a person who's not a

Christian. And you should have that one -on -one chat about that. So, would you consider that to be the first step of church discipline?

In which case, yes. Church discipline should be administered in such a situation.

You are already going and talking to the person. You are exercising that first step because you know what they're doing is sin.

It is contrary to what Scripture says. The Apostle Paul said, do not be yoked with unbelievers.

And so, Scripture is very explicit there. Now, that doesn't say don't get into a relationship with an unbeliever.

That could be a general instruction even with regarding friendship. But it would most especially apply with somebody who's in a romantic relationship with somebody else.

Something that would, of course, lead toward marriage. Right. A believer should not be marrying an unbeliever.

Okay? So, that's sin. That's going deliberately against what Scripture says.

So, you would be confronting that brother or sister in the Lord and saying, it's wrong for you to be in a relationship with an unbeliever.

And I encourage you to break this off. And don't make it the sort of thing either where it's like you go to the significant other and then say, you either have to be a

Christian or we have to break up. I mean, no, you need to break up. Yeah. Because now at that point, how do you know that they truly believe in Christ?

It was legit. Yeah. Or they're just doing it because, oh, well, I still want to be in this relationship. So, no, the relationship needs to come to an end.

Now, if that person doesn't break the relationship off, then a good idea for you would be to find two or three other friends that really care for this person.

And now several of you have something of like an intervention where you're confronting that person and saying, this is serious and we're concerned for you.

That person is going to cause you to stumble. You need to break off this relationship.

And if they still won't listen to you, then you bring it maybe to a pastor, the elders, whatever bringing it to the church would look like for you, then that's probably the next step.

And so when you're asking, does this rise to the level of church discipline? You might be talking about that third step.

Yeah. You get through the first and the second first. And then if that doesn't go anywhere, what church is this person a part of?

In which case, bring it before that body and say, yeah, this is a serious matter concerning our brother or sister in Christ who is being united with somebody who's not a brother or sister in Christ.

And so we would hope and desire that they would listen to reason. They would be convicted from their heart and they would break off the relationship.

Yeah. And if they don't, then they've really chosen to be yoked to somebody who is of the world rather than of Christ.

Somebody who is of Satan rather than of God. And so you would have to turn them over to that.

If that's what you're choosing, if that's where you're deciding to plant your feet, put your heart, then we're going to turn you over to that.

That always makes me think of Lot's wife. Oh, yeah. How she always, you know, like she looked back and longing for.

She longed for Sodom, even though it was going up in fire. And she looked back and turned into a pillar of salt.

You had to let them go. Yeah. And Jesus said to his disciples, remember Lot's wife.

Yeah, definitely. Do not long for this world, which is coming to destruction, but rather be longing for the things of God and for the kingdom of God.

This also goes against what said in Matthew 633. Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

Amen. If you are yoking yourself with an unbeliever, then you are not seeking first the kingdom of God or the righteousness of Christ.

You would rather be yoked with somebody who's still walking in unrighteousness and is part of this world that is coming to destruction.

So it is a serious thing. And, you know, David, you had asked if I've ever been in this position before.

Well, I have had somebody ask me to marry them to someone who is an unbeliever, in which case

I turned them down. Yeah. I said, no, I don't believe that you should be in this relationship with this other person and I'm not going to marry you.

They end up leaving the church. Yeah. And they go to somebody else. They're going to look for somebody else who's going to marry us. Right. To this day,

I don't know what ended up happening to them, but I know that I refused to play any part in that.

There were occasions before that, though, that I did marry unbelievers and I regret that.

I was young. I felt like I was fulfilling a promise that was made by the previous pastor.

But then looking back on it, I was like, I shouldn't have had anything to do with that. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, live and learn.

And then advise others. And then advise others not to make the same mistake. Yeah. Right. But with regards to somebody who was in a relationship with an unbeliever, yeah, there's been plenty of times where I've made that confrontation with a friend, but I don't think we've ever had a situation in my 16 years as a pastor,

I don't think it's ever gone as far as coming to that third step. Either the relationship did break off or the person just left.

Yeah. Before it could get to that step in the discipline process. And it was like, well, you know,

I'd rather have my sin than go through this drama, so I'm just leaving. And that's usually the way that ends up happening.

Yeah. It's heartbreaking when it does, yes. But yeah, we should be encouraging our brothers and sisters in the

Lord to be in a relationship with somebody who is of Christ. Yes, definitely.

And as you've probably heard this sort of proverb regarding relationships with, or, you know, finding a good relationship with somebody who is a

Christian, look to Jesus. Run to Jesus as fast as you can.

Yes. If you look next to you and there's somebody else that's running to Jesus as fast as they can, you say, hey, let's run together.

Yep. And now you've found a good Christ -centered relationship, a Christ -focused relationship that you can be a part of.

Amen. All right. Let's go to our voicemail here. This is from Ken.

And the question that he has has to do with the difference between conscience and the

Holy Spirit. Okay. So here we go. Good morning, Pastor Gabe. This is

Kenneth Coleman from Barnum, Mississippi. I just had a question about our conscience versus the

Holy Spirit. When I hear that voice in my head that says to go witness to a person, is that my conscience, the

Holy Spirit? What is that or who is that? Sometimes I obey it.

Sometimes I don't. Maybe you can help me with this.

What's the difference between the conscience and the Holy Spirit? Can you just talk about these things? I love what y 'all do.

Talk to y 'all later. Bye. That's a great question. Oh, man, I can't tell you how many times

I've thought of that myself. So, yes, great question. Am I feeling a prompting of the

Spirit or is it just my conscience? Mm -hmm. So earlier this week when we were in Acts 8, it was verse 29 where Philip has seen the

Ethiopian eunuch and he's reading the scroll of Isaiah. Okay. And in verse 29, the

Spirit, the Holy Spirit said to Philip, go over and join this chariot. Mm -hmm. Now, one of the things

I pointed out with that was this wasn't Philip's conscience. It wasn't like some whispering voice in his head and then him attributing that to the

Holy Spirit. Oh, that must be the Holy Spirit telling me to go join this chariot. Right. And when we see in the book of Acts the

Holy Spirit saying something to somebody and especially that it's in quotes. Yeah.

As it comes out in English. That's a legit. That's right. That is the Holy Spirit audibly saying to Philip, go over and join this chariot.

And we'll see a couple of other occasions in Acts where the Holy Spirit audibly says something as well.

Mm -hmm. So, just because you feel that desire to want to go share the gospel with somebody doesn't mean it's the

Holy Spirit that's telling you to do it. In the sense that or to the extent that if you disobey that or you don't go do it, that you've somehow disobeyed the voice of God.

Mm -hmm. Now, if you feel guilty in your conscience because you thought

I should have gone and shared the gospel with that person, but I didn't and now I feel guilty about it.

Well, that is a conviction that comes from the Holy Spirit. Mm -hmm.

But it was because you didn't listen to your conscience, not because you didn't listen to the Holy Spirit. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Okay. So, even scripture tells us that if we believe in our conscience that something is wrong and we do the wrong thing, then it's sin.

Yeah. Okay. Right. Because you've gone against what you believe to be the right thing and you did the wrong thing instead.

Mm -hmm. It's sin. Whether or not the Bible explicitly says it's sin, you've gone against your conscience and you've sinned.

Mm -hmm. But that's not the same as I heard the voice of the Holy Spirit and I did not obey it.

Correct. That's not the same thing. Okay. I know that sounds a little confusing, but they're not the same.

So, the conscience, even an unbeliever can have a conscience. Mm -hmm. And an unbeliever can be convicted by their conscience that may not even have anything to do with the

Holy Spirit. You know, a pagan can know that it's wrong to murder your neighbor, but it's not the

Holy Spirit telling them not to murder my neighbor. True. It could just simply be that this person who was made in the image of God has a certain moral compass that exists because we are creatures made by God.

Mm -hmm. And that moral compass is at least tuned enough for that person that they know certain things are wrong.

Right. Naturally, they're wrong. There are certain revelations that we can glean from nature to know what is right and what is wrong.

Romans 1 talks about this. We're in Romans 1 .20. It says that God's eternal quality and divine nature are clearly seen in all that has been made so that men are without excuse.

So, you can see that there is a God through everything that has been made. There's a natural revelation through which we can know that God exists.

So, likewise, there's also a natural revelation through which we can know there is a right and there is a wrong.

Mm -hmm. As R .C. Sproul was famously asked one time, how do you convince a person that there is an objective right and wrong if they're a relativist, if they believe there is no truth and there is no right and wrong?

And R .C. Sproul said, steal his wallet. I remember this one.

Yeah. Yes. And then he'll know, okay, okay, all right, all right, there is a right and there is a wrong. Yeah.

So, through natural revelation really doesn't have anything to do with a conviction that comes from the Holy Spirit. Just naturally they can recognize there are standards that everybody must live by.

Yeah. If we don't live by those standards, that would be wrong. It's chaos. Yeah, that's right. Everything would just delve into chaos.

So, the conscience can be that internal moral awareness that everybody has.

And we've talked about this from Romans 2 as well, verses 14 and 15, where it says that even

Gentiles or non -Jews without the written law, the Jews had been given the law.

Mm -hmm. The Gentiles did not have it, but even they can demonstrate in their lives that they recognize there are requirements that have been given to us.

There is a law that has been written on our hearts with their conscience bearing witness against them whenever they do wrong.

So, it can accuse or excuse our actions is what Paul says there in Romans 2. So, that's talking about the fact that we all have a law that is written upon our hearts and that conscience will be the thing that will guide us to do the right thing or the wrong thing.

Mm -hmm. Or as the old Disney Jiminy Cricket conscience. Oh, yeah. In Pinocchio, always let your conscience be your guide.

Yes. Well, the conscience is not an infallible guide. That's what

I was going to say. Yeah. So, as long as it lines up with scripture, right? Right. Yeah.

So, how do we know if what our conscience is telling us is right or wrong? Well, it still has to go by the moral standard that God has established and revealed in his law.

Mm -hmm. That's a divine revelation. So, we have a natural revelation. Mm -hmm. And then what we have in scripture that has been revealed by God concerning his moral righteous law, that is special revelation.

That's the divine revelation that's been given to his people that has been written down for us in the word so that we can know what

God's standard is and what is pleasing to him. Mm -hmm. Now, when you hear the law, when you hear the law of God read to you, something in the

Bible says do this or don't do that. And you feel the conviction in your heart to do this or don't do that, or you feel the conviction that, well,

I have broken this. Mm -hmm. I've messed up. I've sinned here because I know that I haven't kept it.

Mm -hmm. That is a work of the Holy Spirit. Yes. And the Holy Spirit will condition or prep a person to then hear the good news of the gospel so you recognize your guilt before God and your need for a

Savior. And then through the hearing of the gospel, you come to know that Savior is Christ.

Mm -hmm. And by faith in him, you are forgiven that sin and made right before God. And Jesus said that when the

Holy Spirit comes, John 16, 8, when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment.

So the conviction of wrong is definitely a work of the Holy Spirit.

Yeah. Otherwise, everybody's right in their own eyes. Yes. Right? Right. And the only way we can know for sure that the

Holy Spirit speaks to us, the only way you can be absolutely certain that this is the Holy Spirit speaking, is if it's in the

Bible. Mm -hmm. If you feel a pull to go share the gospel with somebody else, is that the

Spirit or not? I don't know. I can't tell you if it's the Holy Spirit that's drawing you to go and preach the gospel with that person.

Mm -hmm. Would the Spirit work through something like that? Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Always. Yeah.

But that's not the same as it's the Spirit actually speaking to you and saying, go share the gospel with that person.

True. Make sense? Mm -hmm. Okay. So the Spirit is going to work through that, but that doesn't necessarily mean your desire and your draw to go to a person and share the gospel with them is automatically the

Holy Spirit that's telling you to do that. Okay. We should just have a general love for people as Christians to want them to know the truth about Christ so that they won't go to hell.

Right. I mean, that really should be our spiritual disposition with everybody for every Christian.

Mm -hmm. We want people to hear the gospel. So it could just be that love that you have in your heart, which has been poured into your heart by the

Holy Spirit. That love that you have is what is compelling you to want to go share the gospel with somebody else.

Mm -hmm. I know that these lines don't seem terribly clear even as I'm describing them, but they don't have to be.

True. Like, you don't have to know that this was the Spirit telling me to do this or this just was my conscience guiding me to do it.

You know what's right and what's wrong according to what Scripture says. Mm -hmm. And you know that as a Christian, all of us have been given a mission or a work as a royal priesthood on this earth, as talked about in 1

Peter 2 .9. We've all been given this role to some degree to share the gospel of Christ with somebody else.

Mm -hmm. There are certainly people that are going to have a greater responsibility in it than others will.

But we all have people that we know that don't know Christ. And so you may have that desire in your heart for them to know the

Lord. And therefore, what can you do? How will the door be opened for you, maybe the

Spirit make that way for you, to go and share the gospel with them? That would be a blessing. Absolutely.

And you can pray for the Spirit's wisdom and strength so that when you are sharing the gospel with somebody, the

Spirit brings to your mind the Scriptures that you need to share with them. Oh, yeah. Or even the laws that will help convict their heart so they recognize where I have failed, where I know

I deserve judgment, and where only Christ can save me. Amen. And all of this comes through the hearing of the

Word. Romans 10, 17, faith comes by hearing and hearing through the Word of Christ. Mm -hmm.

So we do have to use the Word of Christ even when we share the gospel with somebody else. All right. This next one comes from Josh Kuypers.

He is the guy behind Kuyper Belt Productions. Have you seen these videos on – do they come across your

XFeed or anything like that? Well, they probably will now. But no, not – It's KP.

It's the purple KP. Okay. Remember the – That sounds more familiar. Remember the interview that I did at G3 in September of 23.

I guess this would have been. September of 23. And the redheaded guy did this interview with me.

And then it took like two years for him to release the interview because it just came out this past January. Oh. Do you remember this?

Yes, a little bit. That's Josh Kuypers. Okay. So it's that guy. He is –

And you can check out Kuyper Belt Productions on YouTube. Lots of videos. He will do largely funny videos of Reformed preachers.

So funny comedic moments that they've had. Okay. Josh MacArthur. Josh MacArthur is his evil twin.

John MacArthur is the famed late preacher when he says something funny in a banter with Phil Johnson.

Or you've got a panel thing where Alistair Begg said something funny. Josh will grab that and then he'll put it in his joke

Reformed preacher reel. Nice. So anyway, hello, Pastor Gabe. I hope this email finds you and your wife doing well.

Aw, thank you. I appreciate your ministry and enjoy listening to your teaching series, especially your current series in the book of Acts, as it has been tremendously insightful for my preparation to teach the very same book for Sunday school next month.

My wife and I also enjoy listening to your

Q &As and hearing your biblical wisdom on contemporary issues. I have two separate questions, which

I would be interested in hearing from you. First of all, our local church recently installed a new pastor after our previous pastor retired.

Our previous pastor served faithfully at our church for over 30 years. God has been very gracious to us, and the transition between pastors was a very smooth process.

But I have heard of churches that had serious difficulties accepting or embracing a new pastor, thinking of the example of Charles Simeon.

What is some practical advice that you can bestow to churches that can help make the transition process smooth, especially if the previous pastor has developed a deep relationship with the church?

I don't know that I have like a list of things that I could lay out for you on what would be the best way to go about this.

Yeah, I don't think we've really narrowed that down. So I've transitioned out of... Everything's circumstantial, too.

Yes. Right. It can differ from one scenario to the next. So I've transitioned out of two churches, and both occasions in which

I transitioned out was very different. Yes. Because in one, I was a senior pastor for 10 years, and in the other,

I was an assistant pastor for three years. So, yeah, very different scenarios. So with the church that I was a pastor of in Kansas for 10 years, which is now

Providence Baptist Church in Junction City, Kansas, I had helped to put together the pastor search committee.

And when they started receiving resumes, I was still there when they started getting resumes in for pastors that were applying for the position that I was leaving.

Okay? Right. So who is going to be pastor in place of Gabe? And I went through those resumes, but I did tell the pastor search committee

I would advise them, I would answer any questions that they wanted. But since I was leaving, and they would not conclude the process until after I was gone,

I don't want to be the one choosing. So y 'all have to pick this pastor, but I'm going to answer questions.

I'll be with you as much as I can until I'm gone. And then even after that, they could still call me and ask questions and things.

Naturally. Well, so I gave them guidance. I went through all the resumes that we got, and I think it was like 60 resumes or something.

There were quite a few. And I narrowed it down to three that I really liked. And I thought if they settle on any of these three guys,

I think the church would be in a really good place. And after I left, the pastor search committee settled on exactly those three guys without me telling them.

Right. These are the pastors you need to pick. Just pick these three and now go from here. There wasn't even any hinting or anything like that.

Yeah. I didn't do anything. I answered questions. I had kind of directed them in.

You want to be looking for this. You don't want to be looking for that, that sort of thing. But they basically came down to the three guys

I would have picked if I had been on that committee. And then Ryan Sickinger was the pastor that they settled on, and he was the guy that came in after me and has been doing a tremendous job ever since.

Definitely. I was very proud of him for the work that he did after I had departed there. Now, we went back for a visit to that church after that, but we didn't have any direct insight or direct input.

Sometimes a member of the church would email or something, loved hearing from them, would respond to emails.

We had some questions that were sent to us like, hey, when you guys were here, what did you do about this?

Right. Or even questions that had to do with the Constitution. Some of those questions were thrown at me, and we would answer questions about that.

So it was never like a cold turkey break from the church. Right. Yeah. And I think that helps, too, because then they can kind of fill in the blanks of, well, this is what was going on, and then where are we going from there?

Right. Not like this has to be it because this is how it's always been, but where does the new pastor want the trajectory to go?

Is he more of an outreach, or is he more like,

I'm going to build you guys up more right now, and then we'll be outreach? Yeah. Or are we the kind that just hosts everybody?

Right. Everybody has different gifts from the

Holy Spirit, and the pastors are the same way. So you can't apply certain gifts from your old pastor onto your new pastor if they're not gifted with that.

Right, right. That's not fair. So don't do that. I mean, he has to have the ability to preach and teach.

Of course. Absolutely. Other areas of ability, yeah, may vary from one pastor to the next.

Right. So absolutely. But yeah, I was ready to answer any of Ryan's questions, and I really felt like work that I had started there, he picked up the baton and ran with it.

Yes. He wasn't coming in and undoing a bunch of stuff that I did. As a matter of fact, there were even a couple of questions that he asked of me, like, what were you doing about this?

And I had said, well, you know what? We started that process, and we basically left it open -ended enough, because there were a couple of other things that we were waiting to fall in place before we went further with that particular decision.

And so if all of that is done, it's really up to you now, and you can do it how you want to do it.

Yeah, exactly. So that ended up going great. As I've shared about that church in the past, they ended up pulling out of the

Southern Baptist Convention. They had adopted the 1689 as a statement of faith and became a

Reformed Baptist Church, thus changing the name from First Southern Baptist, which is what it was for 60 -plus years, to Providence Baptist Church.

And so now, technically, I've pastored two Providence Baptist churches. It's very true.

Because now we're at Providence Reformed Baptist Church in Casa Grande, Arizona. So anyway, that was – and I am still – my heart is still for that church, and they can call me anytime.

And it was never a cold turkey break or anything like that. Now, before I became a pastor at that church,

I was in Christian Radio. And when I left Christian Radio, that was a cold turkey break.

Yep. I did not want to be associated with it anymore. But I really was –

I was kind of shifting my mindset out of Christian Radio ministry and into local church ministry.

It's a completely different mindset and a different approach. And you were about to get married.

Oh, there was that too. That was coming up. There was a lot. So I really did not want to have my interests divided.

I didn't want to have a foot still in Christian Radio and then be doing pastoral ministry as well.

So the radio station – and this kind of ended up happening to ensure that I would not be associated with it anymore.

The guy that came in and replaced me, they actually had to hire two people to replace me for the work that I was doing.

If I can toot my own horn there. I can say it's true. I can verify.

I was working a lot. Yeah. So they hired two people to replace me. But one guy who was the program director was calling me and asking questions about how to do certain tasks, processes, whatever.

And I was just kind of walking him through. Well, I basically automated that entire thing. So if you're trying to change it.

Yeah. Then you're changing the automation that I already established. Well, that guy, that very same guy, would end up telling one of the higher ups in the organization.

So not even in the same studio that I was at, but in another part of the organization. He ended up telling that guy that I had stolen software from the radio station.

And I actually confessed to him that I had stolen software, which was – I mean, it's like, okay,

I'm going to steal software. And then I'm going to tell you, hey, I stole a bunch of software. Yeah. I'd never worked with this guy before.

Why would I even have that – Confiding. Confided you that I just stole a bunch of software.

So one time he called me and said, okay, I'm still confused on this process. Can you walk me through this?

And I said, no. In fact, I'm going to ask you right now, did you tell so -and -so that I stole a bunch of software from the radio station?

And he was totally caught. It was dead silent. Uh -huh. And he goes, well, you told me that you stole some software from the radio station.

I said, no, I did not. I never said anything of the sort. I've never stolen software, and I didn't tell you

I stole software. And so I told him, I said, don't call me anymore.

I mean, if this is – if you're going to lie about me, I'm not helping you. This is over. So that did cut the relationship off with the radio station from that point forward.

Did not have any relationship with them anymore. So that was a much different sort of scenario. Oh, yeah.

Never happened in church ministry like that, but it did happen in Christian radio. But then when we left

First Baptist in Lyndale, I had been there for three years. I was an associate pastor, and so it was a much different transition.

Yeah. And it took a while for them to find the guy that would replace me. I think it was over a year, even, if I remember right.

So, you know, there wasn't anything that I was really hands -on with. But if anybody from the church called me and said, hey, when you left and you left this behind, you know, how did you do this or something like that?

There were some questions there. Clarifying. Right. But I think everybody knows, if you've been listening to us for a long time, we still hold both of those churches dear in our hearts.

Oh, definitely. We go back and visit when we have the opportunity to do so. We still have friends there. And so I haven't really had a situation where somebody who had been in a church for a long period of time, for decades, has retired, and now what kind of relationship do you want to maintain with that person?

Something that I've seen done is, even when a pastor retires, if he's been faithful to the ministry, if he's done it for a long time, if he still has a good standing with that church, maybe he's even retiring and still attending that church.

Then what is often granted to that retired pastor is the status of emeritus.

That's what I was going to say. Yeah. So he's an emeritus pastor. He may not be the regular teaching guy, but he still holds basically an honorary role, still has that ability to preach and teach.

He's just not doing it as often anymore as he used to. So it's kind of an honorary title that he's granted.

You give him the position of emeritus. I think that it doesn't necessarily help with the transition process.

Maybe it does. But you at least show your respect and love for that guy who gave so many decades of service to the ministry of your church.

How you make that process smooth, I think this goes back to something that you had said previously, that every pastor has a different skill set.

Yeah. So it really can differ from one pastor to the next. Definitely. But I will say that the top thing, aside from prayer and all of that, is communication.

Yeah. Good communication. Good, smooth, patient communication.

Many counselors. Yes. You know, the advice of many counselors is good. It's a lot easier if the pastor dies.

I know that's kind of morbid. That's so sad. Where are you going with this?

Because it just popped into my head that when John MacArthur passed away, they still haven't appointed who the senior pastor is going to be for Grace Community Church in his place, which we're coming up on a year in July.

It'll be a year after John MacArthur died. So there's no struggle with transition from the previous guy to the next guy.

You don't have to have that smooth transition. That's just what was in my head. Okay. If he had died, then you don't have to worry about, well, is the previous guy going to interfere or something like that.

You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. I know that was morbid, but that was where my head was at.

It's finally making sense as to where you're coming from. Yeah. But in the beginning,

I was like, what? Right. But if he's still there, yeah, you want a smooth transition process.

If he leaves, if he moves somewhere else, you're still going to have to keep in mind of, well, is he going to keep tabs on the church?

Is he going to try to recruit people? If he doesn't like the direction the church is going, is he going to start needling in with people that were faithful to him and like, okay, well, you need to start pushing back because this is bad.

And then he becomes meddlesome. Yeah. I mean, you do have to concern yourself with those kinds of things if something like that could happen.

I hope that wouldn't be the case with this wonderful man that has pastored your church for so long.

But it's like a crisis scenario that you have to keep in the back of your mind just in case.

Yes. In case something like this happens. Well, I mean, being there, how many years? 30? I mean, that's a long time.

I mean, you could almost say the church was his baby, but not quite because it's a church. But you know what

I'm saying? Well, I understand, yeah. But a lot of his time and effort and love and probably tears and blood.

His blood, sweat, and tears are in that building. Yes. They are. Yeah. Yes. So it can be a tough transition.

Yes. Now, when I took over as senior pastor of the church in Junction City, the previous pastor who had hired me, he had been a pastor there for five years.

I went on to be a pastor there for 10. But he did try to interfere. And that was very, very unfortunate.

It would be the sort of a thing where if I said or did something that made somebody mad, they ran back to him.

We're like, do you know what Gabe's doing? Have you heard about what he's doing? And then he would side with the person who was coming to him.

Right. And I would have to go to him and say, don't do that. Yeah. You're kind of sabotaging this.

And it could be a person that is going through something they need to be disciplined for. And here you are consoling them and saying it's okay when it's not okay.

Right. They actually need to be confronted on this matter. So we did butt heads quite a bit after.

We were not that way when we were working together. But after he left, it did become that a little bit.

So we had to have some conversations about that. I hope that would not be the case with you. But that falls under the,

I guess, instruction that you just gave a moment ago about good communication. Yes. Like even if things are not going to go well, you still need to be communicating well to try to resolve those things.

Yes. Yeah. So I hope I answered that as best as I could there. The next question that Josh has is this one.

Unfortunately, we are seeing an increase in anti -Semitic rhetoric and embracing of bizarre conspiracy theories, even among Christians.

Conspiracy theories like Israel manipulating President Trump or the Jews have control over our institutions and other stuff along those lines.

Have you seen these conspiracy theories making its way into the church? And how do you pastorally deal with people, friends or family that are radically embracing this awful stuff?

Thank you so much for all that you do. And may God continue to bless your ministry. Josh of Kuiper Belt Productions.

Appreciate you, brother. Okay. So I have seen this a lot, obviously, because I do spend quite a bit of time online.

So I have seen the anti -Semitic, anti -Jewish sentiments that are kind of spreading, especially among young men.

There's this massive level of distrust of government or anyone in any position of authority, it seems.

Believing that the Jews are behind all kinds of stuff like manipulating President Trump or believing that the

Jews had something to do with Charlie Kirk's death. You know, there are all different kinds of manner of things.

The Jews are behind Jeffrey Epstein. The Jews are, you know, Mossad is somewhere in our government or in the

CIA that's making sure everything is falling in line in favor of Israel.

There's just a massive number of stuff. Have I seen this in the church? No. I actually haven't.

Do I know people who are Christians and are attending a church somewhere that are probably getting pulled into some of this conspiracy theory stuff?

Yeah. Not my church. But I have seen it in some other places a little bit.

But not to the degree that I think it's caused any major division or factions to rise up.

For the most part, those that I know who have held these kinds of opinions but have still been attending a church that I'm familiar with have seemed to have been responsible with those opinions.

So even though they may have the conspiracy theory, which I think it's a problem that you have that conspiracy theory, but they're not letting it rise to the level of causing division in the church.

It's almost like it's just kind of a hobby horse sort of a thing for them. Sure. And it's annoying to talk about.

Like, what does this matter? Why does this have to do with anything? How does this change your life or mine? Right. But they're not letting it get to the level of sowing division in the body.

Okay. By and large, when I encounter anybody that holds some of these radical conspiracy theory stuff, some of the radical stuff that's going around, even...

I'm not going to repeat this one. There was a new one that I heard this week and I'm not going to repeat it because it's awful.

Okay. It's awful to even say it. Well, thank you for not repeating that because I'm in the dark.

I like it there. It has to do with Jews training attack dogs, but I'm just going to leave it at that.

But anyway, it's weird, wild stuff. And who knows what the next crazy conspiracy theory is going to be that they're going to cook up.

I mean, is this like equivalent to Chuck Norris being able to do anything and everything?

And then, you know, it's like, this is anything and everything type of conspiracy theories.

Where like, you know... You just make up whatever. Chuck Norris doesn't do a push up. He pushes the earth down. Yes. That sort of thing.

Yeah. And the Jews are just able to do whatever. Yeah. Sometimes. I mean, some of this stuff rises to the level of like,

I think you can imagine the Jews doing anything. So some of that is that extreme.

That's that anti -Semitic. And some of these guys even become rather pro -Nazi, and they praise

Adolf Hitler and think he was actually a good guy. Oh, those guys. Yes. Right, right. Okay. But anyway...

Which I think is insane. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's nuts. I did not think I would ever see this in my lifetime, but it's crazy what it's become now.

Definitely. I've talked about how World Magazine does a pretty regular article on the rise of anti -Semitism among young men, even professing

Christian young men. And they've been talking about the increase of it within our culture and even within the church.

So I know it's there, and it's probably affecting a lot of places. But like I said, by and large, whenever I encounter these guys, they're almost exclusively online.

So it's like 95 % of this is on the internet. It's not stuff that I'm encountering in real life or especially in the church.

Okay. When you get people that get this deep into conspiracy theory stuff, they likely disconnect themselves from the church.

Yeah, that's true. So they're either not regular churchgoers, or they just pull out and don't go anymore anyway.

And that will leave a person susceptible to all kinds of stuff. Definitely.

You know, Ephesians chapter 4 tells us there that the church actually is a place that protects us from being tossed to and fro by every shifting wind of doctrine.

Ephesians 4 .11, where it says that God gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and the teachers to equip the saints for the work of ministry for building up the body of Christ.

Until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the

Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. So that we may no longer be children tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

We won't be taken by these weird, wild ideas. Yeah. And even before all of this stuff came up on the scene, as long as I've been a pastor, and I've been preaching from like 1st and 2nd

Timothy and Titus. Part of the requirements, when you're looking at the type of character that a man who wants to be an overseer in the church needs to exhibit.

We're talking about his qualifications. He actually has to have a sound mind and is firm on what he believes and what he teaches.

He's not still learning these things. He's not being tossed to and fro by different concepts and ideas.

He doesn't remain unsettled in his mind about certain key doctrinal points. He has a temperate mind and he's sober minded, is the way the scripture puts it.

So in Titus 1 .5, appoint elders in every town as I have directed you.

If anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.

An overseer as God's steward must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain.

But hospitable, a lover of good, self -controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.

He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also rebuke those who contradict it.

If he is so easily taken by wild conspiracy theories, then he does not fit that qualification in Titus 1 .9.

Absolutely not. I remember speaking against Mark Driscoll a number of years ago and said he does not exhibit this quality.

Right. He's constantly tossed to and fro. Definitely. By different. Whoever he's talking to.

Yeah, right, right. Like, what is the weird cultural thing that's going on right now that I can latch myself on to and make a name for myself through it?

Yeah. Anyway, just as this is the case for the pastor, so it is for any one of us.

We all need to be sober minded. Yes. We all need to be temperate and not tossed to and fro by all these different kinds of doctrine.

Ephesians 4 .14 says we're children. You're acting like children. Yeah. I mean, it is.

You're acting like make -believe, like you're in the backyard playing Cowboys and Indians or Jews and Nazis.

I mean, whatever the game it is that you're playing. And you're just making up wild story ideas like this is some sort of version of Dungeons and Dragons.

And we're just creating our narrative as we go. Right. It's juvenile. Yes. It is not the sound mind of a

Christian to be caught up in stuff like this. So, being a part of a church protects us from getting caught up in these wild ideas.

And I've seen it before, not with this one in particular, but I've seen it before where somebody starts getting into a lot of crazy conspiracy theory stuff.

And they eventually pull away from the church. Yeah. Because the church isn't talking about the stuff

I care about. Yes. The church isn't talking about the stuff I think are the biggest issues that we need to be confronting right now.

And they're getting tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, and by craftiness and deceitful schemes.

But how are we to be instead? Verses 15 and 16. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ.

Stop being children and grow up in Christ. From whom the whole body joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

Amen. The best defense against this stuff is to preach the word. Preach it in season and out of season.

Reprove, rebuke, and exhort with complete patience and teaching. Yes. As Paul instructed Timothy to do.

So we need to do. We need to understand that all scripture is God -breathed and is useful for these things.

That the man of God may be fully equipped and ready for every good work. Yes. And that comes through the preaching of the word.

Yes. And putting on the armor of God every day. Yeah, that's right. Good call. Keep yourself protected from following every wave of doctrine.

Like, oh, hey, that might make sense. No, it doesn't. Yeah. Don't. Well, you know, one of the things that's been said about John MacArthur since he's passed away is that you can go back to sermons that he's done 30, 40 years ago and they're still just as relevant to now.

Oh, yeah, definitely. Because he was preaching the word. And though there may be, I remember

Fred Butler talking about this, there may be some sort of, like, if the Beatles had a song out or something that was popular at the time, then we may need to clip the part out where he's talking about the

Beatles song or something. But otherwise, the rest of it. And, you know, fuel being about a dollar. Have you seen the price of gas right now?

Oh, my goodness. It's up to 98 cents. Yeah, if he ever mentioned that in a sermon, you probably need to cut that out.

Yep. That doesn't really hold up over time. Add a five or a six on to the front of that.

Yeah, right. Especially out there in California. But when you're talking about the timeless truth of God's word, that is applicable in any decade.

Oh, amen. And MacArthur was faithful to preach that, and it will still be applicable decades after he's gone.

Definitely. So that's what I desire my ministry to be as well. And it is the word of God that will unify your body.

It's also the word of God that will cut off those parts that are not supposed to be there or that are starting to get taken away by other doctrines and show themselves to not truly be of Christ, but actually they were caught up in the cares and concerns of the world.

Yeah. So you remember the parable of the sower, it's the seed that sprouted up in the thorns and it was choked out.

Yeah. The thorns represented those that were caught up in the cares and concerns of the world and the deceitfulness of riches.

And it chokes the word and proves to be unfruitful. So that can happen with the different kinds of conspiracy theories that people get caught up in.

Yeah. But it's good to hear from you, Josh. It sounds like you really care for your church and I pray for you and the best for your body in this time of transition and also defense that you may need to mount up against some of these kinds of attacks that will come at us from different sides in the world.

Yeah. Hopefully he's not having to deal with that. Now, I do have another question, but we've hit the end of our time.

So I'm going to have to save this one until next week. Okay. But if you want to submit a question to the broadcast, you send it to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com

or send us a voicemail, speakpipe .com slash wwutt.

You can record your voicemail question from your phone or from your laptop and we'd love to hear from you.

Yes. We thank you for your donations. We got a donation from somebody earlier this week just saying thank you and appreciate listening to the program and we appreciate that very much.

Hopefully I'll get the website done. We'll get it back online and that's kind of a one -stop shop to be able to find the podcast and videos and send us a donation or a voicemail or anything like that.

I'll try to poke at you too during the week. Okay. A lot of times I just don't think about it and then I'm like, oh yeah, I haven't worked on the website in a while.

Yes. Let's finish with prayer. Yes, let's. Heavenly Father, we thank you for today and I ask that as we head into this weekend, we look forward to gathering with the saints on Sunday.

I pray that church attendance would be a regular thing for us. We're all convicted in our spirits to want to attend church with the body because we grow together with our brothers and sisters in the

Lord, growing together into Christ. We are reminded of the gospel and all those good things.

We are worshiping the Lord together. We are probably reminded of our sin and need for a savior and helping to even kind of cleanse out all that toxicity that comes into our minds because we've been stepping around in the world all week long.

We need to get together with the saints to sing praises to God and hear the gospel proclaimed. And I pray for these listeners that they have good churches that they can attend where the gospel is faithfully proclaimed and they have good brothers and sisters in the

Lord that look out for them. In all things, we keep our eyes focused upon Christ, looking to Jesus, the author and the perfecter of our faith, and pray together with the

Apostle John. Lord Jesus, come quickly. Looking forward to the day that we will be with you forever in glory.

It's in Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. Oh, hey,

I had a bit of trivia question. I had a trivia. Just a bit of trivia?

Just a bit of trivia. So we'll close on a trivia note. Okay, I have mine too.

Oh, you got a trivia thing for me? Uh -huh. Okay, I just learned this today. I did not know this. Okay.

At all. And I thought, I'm going to throw this at Becky and see if she knows this. Do you know what

Haagen -Dazs means? No. First of all, do you know what

Haagen -Dazs is? It's the ice cream. Yeah, of course. Right. The ice cream brand, Haagen -Dazs. Right. Do you know what that means?

No. Do you know what language it is? It's not German. It sounds like it though.

It does sound like it. Yeah. Somewhere around there. It was a couple of Polish guys that started Haagen -Dazs ice cream.

Okay. But the language is not Polish. Okay. It's been thought by many to be Danish. It's not

Danish either. Okay. Do you know what Haagen -Dazs means? No. Nothing. Oh, well, there you go. It's a complete nonsense name that they just, they liked it.

They thought it sounded cool. So they named their ice cream. That sounds like a God thing. Yes. Named it

Haagen -Dazs. And since they came up with the word and they just made it up, then they were free to translate it into whatever they wanted it to mean.

Oh, that's hilarious. So they've decided it means the best. Oh, there you go. It's just the best ice cream.

Well. But the words themselves are nonsense. They don't mean anything. I just learned that today.

Yep. So did I. Completely unrelated to the Bible or anything else we do on when we understand the text.

But yeah, I just thought you would enjoy that little bit of trivia. Well, thank you. Thank you. Okay, so my trivia that you asked me for.

I said, yeah, you come up with something because I got something for you. Right, right, right. So I can't just do a general like I have to have it narrowed down.

Right. So I chose Arizona. Okay, so you're going to have that was your category.

Yeah. Some bit of Arizona trivia. Okay. Yes. So did you know that Arizona has a massive shoreline?

Has a massive shoreline? Shoreline. Okay. In Arizona. Yes. Lake Powell has nearly 2 ,000 miles of shoreline, which is more than the entire

Pacific coast of the US. What? Yes. That's wild.

I know, right? I did not know that. Isn't that crazy? Thank you. Now we will have to go and visit this place.

Yeah, that'd be fun. I've not seen that much water in Arizona as long as we've been here. Well, I don't know if it's that much water per se, or if it's just really squiggly.

Well, sure. It's probably that. I don't know if you saw this, but up on McCartney, there's a boat sitting out there for sale.

Oh, yeah. Did you see that? I haven't. I should have stopped and taken a picture of it because it was so funny that there's a boat.

A boat. And desert everywhere. Yeah, we have to drive like at least an hour, hour and a half to get to any lake -ish big enough for a boat.

I'm like, that's probably not the spot. That's probably not the best spot to sell a boat. Yeah, you know. So, anyway.

Well, with the gas prices, I totally get it. Yeah, that's right. I can't afford to tow this somewhere.

There's water that people could buy a boat. I'll just set it out here in the desert, and hopefully somebody will buy my boat.