Apollo Quiboloy Criminal Accusation & Misrepresenting Jeff Durbin

Apologia Studios

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

Non -rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it

00:07

Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite? Delusional is okay in your worldview.

00:16

I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay.

00:24

It doesn't really hurt What Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men

00:37

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage

00:44

Going to all the world and make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives, right?

00:50

Don't go in the world make homies right disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle Nick That's a joke master

01:00

The real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not

01:21

From the fig tree learn its lesson as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near So also when you see all these things, you know that he is near at the very gates

01:36

Truly I say to you this generation will not pass away until all these things take place heaven and earth will pass away

01:43

But my words will by no means pass away. Welcome back everybody to apology a radio.

01:49

Was that referring to summer Jaeger? Summer Jaeger is near. I know I heard is summer near Should not not yet.

01:58

No tomorrow. She'll be near speaking of. Yeah, summer should be on her way, right? Isn't she a

02:04

Thing but yeah, she's my maid of honor maid of honor. Yeah right on. So that's a

02:09

Luke the bear Hi, I'm Jeff Durbin. They call me the ninja they do and I've officially won now

02:15

Pete now they do So I still don't know who they are. Yes, you made it happen. No what I like I said,

02:21

I mean it used to give you I Think you earned it at this point, I guess or maybe

02:27

I don't have the energy to fight it I Love it for someone that wasn't feeling good this morning.

02:33

You are I still oh, yeah, I still don't feel good All right, and that's joy the girl right there We're just having a conversation about like what do we do now?

02:41

What joy because this Saturday joy is getting married Yeah, it's gonna be officially joy hunter not joy

02:48

Tembe hunter -gatherer. And I just want to say I think that your upcoming husband

02:57

I Think I love a good way. I love his namesake. I don't like fiance. I like upcoming husband.

03:03

I Love his namesake because Hunter fits him so well.

03:09

Yeah, he's like a hunter -gatherer. He's he's a he's a man of the forest he's he eats things he finds on the ground and Just ran anything.

03:19

He knows I will say in the ground. I know I know so I will say he just eats

03:27

Like I don't know like pennies that he finds off the ground I will He might a

03:33

Matthew. He knows if there was an apocalypse I will confess that I would want to be right next to Matthew because I know that I would survive with Matthew Yeah, cuz he would know exactly be like Jeff don't eat that right don't eat that but you can eat this

03:47

Yeah, a lot of it you can eat you can we just see weeds and stuff. Yeah, but he sees food

03:52

He he would he would help you to survive an apocalypse or landscaping is this why you decided to marry him you thought

03:59

Just you know, at least he had my bets, you know in case well, you know all the blood moons recently have just Someone who can feed me after the apocalypse is that why he decided to be a professional landscaper just so he free food

04:14

I Guess he could use the clippings. Yeah, he eats the clippings.

04:20

Oh, man In the backyard, so So we talked about this before but so Jaeger means hunter in German so right so it's gonna you should you like the hunter twins or something?

04:32

We're gonna have to capitalize on that Summer Jaeger joy hunter same thing meant now your sisters in Christ sisters in the namesake and all -around sisters so Welcome back to apology a radio everybody.

04:46

We are gonna have an interesting show today. We're gonna introduce you all to Apollo Quipolloy He is the Filipino son of God And we have another show coming up very exciting show.

04:56

I'll tell you guys about today at the end of the show And we'd give a little more detailed description of Apollo Quipolloy there, but we wanted to talk in terms of news what's going on with Apollo Quipolloy the

05:06

Filipino son of God it has to do with allegations of a child sex ring and Things like that.

05:13

We're gonna talk about Jehovah's Witnesses We're gonna respond to a video from some gentlemen that Believed that we need to keep all the aspects of the

05:21

Old Testament law to include the dietary restrictions and all the rest

05:26

Put video in quotes. No, I said son of God the Filipino didn't I say so did

05:32

I do that on video? I think you did. Yeah, we're gonna watch a video We're gonna watch a thing here we're gonna do lots of stuff today

05:42

We think it'll be a show that will bless you all very excited to introduce you guys to some of this stuff but before we do we're gonna do something kind of fun here and Here's the game.

05:52

Are you guys ready for the game the game put this right here? So you guys don't cheat especially you We're gonna play some parts from famous movies old movies some of them

06:02

I the reason I thought of this is because because today I was I was talking to my wife and to my son about This famous movie and I could not believe that my family has not seen it and I grew up on it

06:16

I thought it was amazing and I actually am planning on maybe renting it Friday and watching with my family

06:21

You can still rent movies. Yes. Yes, you can like, you know, like on YouTube you just you can rent And then you just you just said he's not

06:29

I know well that I read box. They have it a red box No, you rent you rent it on YouTube and then you send it to your Send it to your

06:36

TV like you're dating yourself. Well, let me just say this Can you rent something without going to a blockbuster?

06:42

This would have been a movie that you rented at blockbuster probably a number of times until you broke the tape. So Video cassette tape, you know, joy always slays us in this game.

06:51

Yes I always think I'm not gonna do well We'll see for those of you guys are watching a live stream right now.

06:58

Make sure you guys share the live stream We're gonna do some really important theological content. But of course this apology radio We love to have fun together and this is just how joy and Luke and I operate so you get a little insight into our lives

07:09

This is how we do So I'm gonna play a clip from the movie and you have to be the first one to name the movie

07:15

You have to name the movie and you get extra points if you can name who's in the movie the actors Can you see this right now?

07:22

Okay. Good. All right. Are you ready? Are we ready live live audience? Are you ready and let's let's see how well you all do.

07:29

Here we go. First Clip from a movie. I'm not gonna tell you from what it's from because that'll be too easy

07:41

Just to please me that's not really giant All I wish is for you to sit is that Arnold and talk with me

07:56

See if anyone's got it on a live stream right now. Well, it's delayed All right,

08:10

I'll give you one here's a hint Tim someone said labyrinth.

08:19

We're close. I know I was gonna say labyrinth, but I have no idea what the Tim Curry This saddens me because this is such a great movie

08:36

I can tell that it's Tim Curry Tim Curry for sure He is a huge devilish looking creature.

08:43

I don't even know who Tim Curry is He played the original it Pennywise the clown he's he was in home alone and Gospel, okay.

08:55

This is an amazing name here. Okay gospel canines for Christ. Oh God this legend with Tom Cruise legend

09:04

Very good. So like you and Zach are always quoting live student. No, no, no, no, actually and this is what what's so interesting

09:10

It's so interesting to me that because nobody knows about this movie. How come legend was like amazing

09:16

Tom Cruise it's you I think you would love it because it's all like fantasy and like Unicorns and elves and like it's it's it's really interesting.

09:26

All right, so that was legend. Somebody said somebody said Air Force One All right, here we go and number two live studio audience

09:36

Let's see if you guys get it for before Luke and joy Here we go. Ready? This might be a little easier because it's such a big movie.

09:43

All right, here we go The train tracks are right there

09:51

Stand by me very good job. Yeah, joy guys Yes, yes, yes, okay, so there you go and Okay, that was second film.

10:00

So let's try this one. This one's super easy. I think but it needs to be done Back to the future very good job.

10:12

All right Okay, here's another one ready and Yes Teen wolf.

10:30

Hey, so as I was pulling up the clip like I know it's got to be something Back to the future

10:36

I've got that music I know Typical 80s music so I was thinking like how sad it is

10:42

I typed in Teen Wolf to get a clip from the Teen Wolf and all Stupid theories or whatever came up so dumb.

10:50

So dumb not worth your time. So that was Teen Wolf and And this one here we go.

10:56

Ready? Yes, that's the big

11:04

Lebowski, okay, here we go and this might be a little too easy too, but let's see who gets it first That's a dry -eyes guy, yeah

11:18

Great Depression past the Bueller Ferris Bueller's day off Ferris Bueller's like automatically trying to think of what he was in look at Brian Porritt said three ninjas

11:36

Okay, here we go and final final film, let's see who gets it first Oh, that was fast

11:44

How'd you know it's so fast the voices? Three words in very good job. So excellent job.

11:51

I don't know exactly who won, but that was fun Did you really yeah, okay

11:56

I think I knew all of them except the first one All right The live studio audience in a sense.

12:05

You guys did an excellent job Ferris Bueller's day off. Good job guys All right, so that was fun. All right, let's get into it today.

12:13

So there is a Well -known Ish, I mean

12:19

I'd say ish in his own little realm in a sense. He is Apollo Kibble, oi, he calls himself the

12:27

Son of God the Messiah and Yeah, believe that he really does the church called that he has

12:35

To have a name so online. Oh I might have pulled up the wrong stuff here.

12:43

So well, he calls it a that's Kingdom of God Now he there's an interview on a play here in just a moment

12:51

From him that I think you need to hear just to get a little bit of idea You can go to his you can go to his his page on YouTube.

12:59

It's Apollo quibble, oi, qui B Y Apollo quibble, oi and The difficult the difficult thing

13:07

I found in examining This false teacher is that his stuff is so very very long like when he when he teaches

13:16

He'll go on for for two hours and It's sort of rambling going from different place to different places not, you know

13:25

It's hard to sort of catch where the guy is at So theologically speaking it's kind of difficult to examine some of the things that he believes

13:31

We've got some of his stuff pinned down, but Apollo quibble, oi is the Filipino son of God he is a very very dangerous false teacher and let me first introduce you to him via a news story

13:45

On ABC News, this is their story and Apollo quibble, oi the Filipino son of God But that is not a sentiment shared by pastor

13:57

Apollo quibble, oi The most successful of the world's self -labeled saviors the official coming of the

14:05

Son of God was in April 13 2005 He was an obscure evangelist from the rural

14:13

Philippines until 2005 when he announced that God had appointed him Christ on earth his reward for a pure life sinful thoughts

14:24

Anger Lust any of those things you don't experience those on a daily basis as a human being.

14:30

Yes I have all already overcome all of those There is no apocalypse if we say we have no sin we lie

14:39

If we say we have no sin we lie and the truth is not in us But of course, he's claiming to be the

14:44

Son of God, which by the way, this demonstrates how important eschatology is as Christians Hashtag eschatology matters a lot of his perverse teachings and him being the

14:55

Son of God and you know Coming as the Messiah unto the world and the kingdom of God is all directly related to his very bad

15:03

Eschatology, which is no surprise figure the vast majority of modern cults and isms have sprung up on a basis of a false view of end times and eschatology

15:13

I think it demonstrates why eschatology is so vitally important to get right the old testament

15:19

Has a particular view of the kingdom of God and when it would come John the Baptist the Lord Jesus the

15:24

Apostle Paul Peter John James all teach about the kingdom of God They say that it was present in the first century

15:32

Jesus of course said that he brought it First Corinthians chapter 15 the Apostle Paul says that the Jesus the

15:37

Messiah is on the Davidic throne. He is seated He is reigning now putting all enemies under his feet

15:43

The last enemy to be destroyed is death and so for the New Testament inspired Apostles and writers they said that that Messianic Kingdom had arrived with Jesus and That it was a present reality.

15:55

This man is teaching ultimately that his coming is the inauguration of the kingdom of God on earth

16:00

So but built upon a bad eschatology. So was the Church of Jesus Christ of last days

16:06

Saints It's in the very name the Jehovah's Witnesses Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

16:12

Same thing David Koresh Go down the line and all these false teachers and modern messiahs have all had a bad eschatology and unbiblical eschatology

16:20

So with that that's not a surprise and that's again an encouragement to see that eschatology matters a lot

16:27

Kibbelois message no rapture or final judgment instead He preaches that he is the model of Christianity and as more people follow his example

16:35

God will gradually turn the earth back into the Garden of Eden Do you perform miracles for me?

16:41

The greatest miracle is the changing of that spirit within But healing the sick the manifestations of Jesus's powers you you you're able to do that We have healing you are healing and miracles happening

16:56

After taking his place as the appointed son Kibbelois ministry has exploded

17:03

Claims to reach 6 million followers with his satellite TV network numerous publications private jet and personal helicopter

17:13

All the better to avoid the bumpy road and impoverished villages that lead to the walled compound.

17:19

He calls the kingdom of Jesus Christ Here is his five -bedroom home surrounded by manicured gardens of imported grass.

17:28

So this is your Garden of Eden This is what we call the Garden of Eden restored

17:35

It's easy to see why this claim resonates in a country where 30 million endure crushing poverty with open hearts

17:42

This family lives just down the hill next to the dump where pastor Kibbelois garbage is burned

17:47

You could be anything in the world. What would you want to be? To them heaven really could exist inside Kibbelois gates

17:59

And it's why hundreds line up to carry his parasol all the workers who toil in the grinding heat of the kingdom are

18:05

Volunteers here to glorify the father. Do you get paid for this?

18:12

Juju tells me he gets $40 a week to feed his family And like the rest of the kingdom he's expected to give 10 % back to Kibbelois This may be the most beautiful spot in the

18:26

Philippines and it's paid for by people who Live on $2 a day.

18:33

So how do you justify your your lifestyle? I mean your watch could probably feed a hundred families for a month

18:39

If it's not God's will for me to have these things I have you can take it away

18:45

It is God's will that that we follow if this God's will for us to live like this

18:52

You know, you can have a broken heart looking at me, but what can you do?

18:57

But they get their understanding of the will of God from you Yeah, this this nice young man wouldn't be holding this umbrella if he didn't believe

19:05

The things you say for us here. We see everything as a ministry

19:12

My talent is to preach my talent is to be a leader not everyone can become a preacher or Have been given a talent like me to go and lead the six million people

19:25

But Jesus when he when he walked the earth according to the Bible Lived among lepers and prostitutes.

19:33

I live among among them. You have a private jet I live among them before I had the private you're in a walled compound with mansions before this

19:44

I Lived among these people like for example that jet that you're talking about Do you know that in 1983?

19:52

I had the revelation of that jet That the Lord is going to give me that yeah It is him who gave me that if it is not his will how can

20:01

I afford that well Kibbeloy has been accused of kidnapping and brainwashing by the parents of at least one of his followers, but he was never charged

20:12

He insists that anyone is free to leave his flock and seal their fate free.

20:18

Here we go. Listen to the last part We'll stop on this eternity. Will they go to hell? It's up to them They know that So that you will you know, if you want to go to hell

20:29

No one will stop you if you want to go to heaven and follow this way No one will stop you to come work with you.

20:35

Yeah, there are three possibilities here You are either the son of god Or you're delusional

20:41

Or you're a very successful con man. I respect your point of view but I resent what you said that Your followers will say i'm a con man with a speaking ability that i've tried to calm people

20:54

That is not the way I am So that's a little bit of an introduction to apollo kibbeloy interesting, right?

21:01

Challenging thing with him is that there's not actually a lot yet And we're going to get into it a lot more here at apologia studios in terms of dissecting his

21:10

Theology his eschatology those sorts of things because he is a modern day false messiah and false prophet false teacher,

21:17

I think it's interesting because Uh for the son of god that he calls himself He doesn't really know a lot about church history, which is interesting

21:24

Uh for the messiah, uh to not know a lot about church history and so he has confusion about what happened in church history and also

21:32

Uh at one point sort of denigrates the idea of modalism, but then he teaches modalism So there's like one god one person and he's the manifestation of the father on earth.

21:41

Jesus the messiah on earth So he claims to be jesus. Yes. Okay. Yeah, he's the messiah on earth the son of god

21:49

Today so that's apollo kibbeloy. So here's the thing We are going to unpack his theology a little bit more on another program of apologia studios that I will tell you guys about at The end of the show today very excited about that is coming up very very soon

22:02

Uh, but I wanted to introduce you to some of the new stuff that's happening right now Uh that I recently discovered, uh, really just last night about apollo kibbeloy the filipino son of god

22:13

Uh, it turns out, uh, there is a significant Charge, it's all over the news

22:19

About it's a scandal apollo kibbeloy pedophilia charges, uh charges that he is a part of a child sex ring

22:28

So this is a news report just about that damning allegations against philippine megachurch kingdom of jesus christ

22:35

A former member of its hawaii branch is accusing its founder pastor apollo kibbeloy of running a child sex ring

22:44

Christina angeles came to hawaii on a religious visa in 2014 to work for the church's office in waipahu

22:52

A few years ago, the missionary from the philippines was charged for sexually assaulting a 15 year old girl

22:58

But in a recent hearing on her case angeles lawyer alleged that his client is actually the victim deputy public defender grant

23:08

Giventer or diventer said angeles was one of a number of minors forced to have sex with pastor kibbeloy

23:15

Who calls himself the appointed son of god? The church's hawaii attorney michael green called the accusations against kibbeloy a diversion

23:25

The trial was supposed to start this month, but the judge delayed it to february taking into account the counter charges

23:32

The kingdom of jesus christ is also embroiled in a bulk cash smuggling case involving more than three hundred thousand dollars

23:41

Wow, yeah, there's just this common thread guys. I mean, uh, for example the lron hubbard the uh creator of scientology when it started early in the beginning, uh his son

23:54

Uh lron hubbard's son actually defected from scientology and he was on abc news and he claimed

24:01

Kind of the same things about uh lron hubbard lron hubbard was in it for the money I mean his son was his right hand man.

24:08

It's his son for goodness sakes and his son said that they were involved in Uh all kinds of criminal, uh different enterprises.

24:15

They would go to mexico. They were connected to the mafia his son alleges and uh lron hubbard actually was

24:22

Bringing heroin and cocaine and marijuana I believe into the united states and he had close connections with the mafia and he was distributing

24:30

Uh drugs across the united states So his son I mean this is back like late in the 50s when this was going on and his son has said during this interview that There was one point where his dad was personally worth about 20 to 30 million dollars

24:42

And he had seen figures by that news report as high as a quarter of a billion dollars

24:47

And much of that money was through criminal enterprise There were people who worked for lron hubbard and said that they were a part of bringing money into the united states millions of dollars in briefcases

24:57

Uh lron hubbard, of course moved his operations to the waters to the ocean on a boat so he could avoid capture ultimately from governments, but it's interesting because When you look at the history of these false messiahs false teachers these cult leaders

25:12

There's an addiction to two things pleasure and power, right? And of course money is connected with that power but like at say the last couple hundred years you see joseph smith jr the

25:25

Founder and prophet of the mormon organization uh same situation money and power and you also see

25:35

Sex, uh, sorry pleasure and power, right? You see sex in there So you have of course the early problems with joseph smith where he was engaging in sexual relationships with other women and polygamous stuff before even his wife was

25:49

Even aware of this was going on. That's why of course you have in a doctrine and covenants dnc Uh, look in sections 131 31 you see the the actual word from god to his wife that if she doesn't accept

26:00

Polygamy and the sexual relationship he's been involved in that god's going to basically strike her down and burn her in hell forever

26:07

Interesting, right? Yeah, so you see say for example, brigham young same situation Addiction to sex pleasure and power.

26:13

You've got david koresh. Same thing having sex with all these women in his compound You've got of course warren jeffs

26:19

Uh the modern mormon false prophets of one of the polygamous sects of mormonism sects of mormonism and uh

26:29

You have all of those sorts of things going on. You've gotten you mentioned a little earlier. Holy hell.

26:34

Yeah the documentary. Holy hell michelle What is his name? I should know this

26:40

It's like a it looks like michael, but I think they pronounce it. Michelle. Yeah. Yeah His name's not on this one does he have a last name

26:49

Yeah, but yeah Tonka you talking about that joy real fast though in terms of you you're bringing something before the show We were talking about all these these false teachers these false messiahs have like this corrupt, you know thing

26:59

We're like you can't have sex, but I can have sex. I'm gonna have sex with all of you Yeah, it's just it's a super common thread in Cults cults that would claim to be like closer to an organized religion.

27:10

And of course, there's cults that like buddhafield Right, uh, you know stuff like that Uh, but yeah, if you

27:16

If you're in a group of people and your leader tells you like all of you guys have to stop having sex, but then

27:23

They don't have to except for me. Then you're definitely in a cult. That's like a calling card

27:29

Well, and some of them are a little more Secretive they say none of it for anyone and then they do it in secret, right?

27:35

But then some of them are just straight up. They're like, oh, yeah. No, it's just me only i'm allowed right? It's not a good right exactly like david koresh.

27:43

Yeah Yeah, exactly. So, uh, by the way, uh, holy hell one of the most amazing documentaries

27:49

I have ever seen in my life and uh, just want to give you a warning if you watch holy hell I just you take me very seriously on this because I nobody warned me before I saw it

27:57

It was one of the most fascinating documentaries I have ever seen in my life Particularly documentary on on a modern day cult, uh, it's heartbreaking to watch it

28:07

But I just want to warn you and please be prepared for this somewhere near the end of the film you'll know when it's coming because i've told you when they start talking about the fact that there were rumors in the past that um,

28:17

That cult leader was actually in uh, gay pornography early on uh, just Just know that there's a section where they try to provide evidence of it and they find it and they do play they provide it

28:29

They try to censor it But it's not really censored like it ought to be.

28:35

Um, I mean, honestly, they could have just shown a picture And bob would have been like I got you you have the evidence they didn't need to do what they did

28:42

Um, but just it's it but it's it's worth your attention that film is worth seeing. Uh, just be aware

28:47

I mean this is we're dealing with real life stuff here and the documentary Documentary is trying to provide evidence

28:53

I just want to forewarn you that you should not watch it in front of your kids And just be ready for that part.

28:59

It's only five seconds. Uh, but I think the rest of the film is worthy of your attention there's that that uh

29:05

Baghdad guy, whatever his name is was up in uh Is it oregon or not oregon?

29:10

It was like in north dakota, right? That one cult that's on netflix. Yeah. Yeah wild country

29:17

Another really great documentary but again, there's a lot of Uh nudity in it, right?

29:23

They just but it was all about sex. They all went they were just like free sex That's what they went there for. So yeah, just another example.

29:29

That's right So, uh, there there is this this common thread with false messiahs cult leaders and uh these false prophets

29:36

Uh that when you when you really dig dig into the cult you see that there is a constant

29:43

Uh consistency between them all where the cult leader is just abusing people sexually and uh abusing power even just demanding that um like people not have sex that's

29:56

That's like a perversion Like it's not just like oh i'm just trying to simplify things so if you guys could all just not right like there's like that is a that is um, like displaying like control over sex, which is like a weird paraphilia almost like if you enjoy having control over people in that way like that,

30:19

I mean obviously like rape would be another Example of someone who wants to have a control over right now.

30:26

So like that's definitely yeah a perversion like demanding that people not Do it is not healthy or normal, you know, so Yeah, anyway, so what um, so apollo quibble

30:37

I have to say because we believe in the law of god here and we believe in just weights and measures and things like that I'm sharing this with you because it's all over the news and this is a public situation now where it's actually in the court so I am

30:49

Notifying you of the trial and the allegations and all of that am I saying that apollo quibble

30:55

Is definitely guilty. I don't know all the facts and the witnesses and the evidence and the details So I do not know

31:00

I am saying this very clearly that it wouldn't be uncommon or strange

31:06

For a false messiah a false prophet the leader of a cult to be involved in these very very serious grotesque sexual sexually perverse

31:17

Activities it wouldn't be unusual Uh, it's not like shocking that a false messiah and false prophet would be doing these kind of depraved acts

31:25

So is it true? I don't know but i'll let you hear from apollo quibble This is the official statement, I guess and by the way you asked the question.

31:31

I I was thinking this was true I just didn't want to get it wrong. I don't ever want to give you guys the wrong information The kingdom of jesus christ.

31:37

That's what yeah Kingdom of jesus christ, uh, but he definitely calls himself the son of god So here is his official statement on the allegations

31:44

I want to tell you guys some of this kind of ebbs and flows between filipino to uh, english, which is actually interesting i'm used to that in my uh, connection and intimacy with filipino, uh friends and family and culture things like that, uh,

31:59

That's it's interesting how they do that sort of like english sort of just sort of moves its way in and out of uh,

32:04

The conversation I love it. So this is uh his uh official statement on the allegations Filipino Abogado The totally fabricated false accusation that i'm running a child

33:15

Against Oh goodness, I thought

33:20

I had this all set Well, come on now

33:27

Document Oh, man, that's supposed to be the wrong video.

33:42

Sorry guys I will see all of these people in court

33:56

Because my legal team is now ready to file the legal Actions against them and against anyone who will malign me and my kingdom ministry in the whole world

34:11

So, there you go, so he gave an official statement and in full denial, uh,

34:21

Apparently there are witnesses to this so we'll keep a close eye on this That is uh, the filipino son of god and again, it wouldn't be unusual if it were true.

34:31

Um, so There you go guys introduction to the filipino son of god Makes sense that they're in hawaii.

34:38

I wonder if they're on kawaii. No, no, they're in philippines I know but that but they've obviously reached

34:45

Hawaii, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so i'm wondering if they're they're on kawaii as well. Yeah. Yeah, I know that's a good question actually

34:50

Yeah, so yeah, it's a very large asian population on the hawaiian hawaiian islands, uh, so Uh, you guys ready for next piece?

34:59

Yes. Yes. All right looking at this wonderful picture of matthew hunter and uh soon to be joy Hunter who matthew's page.

35:06

I just want to say that matthew doesn't listen to this show He doesn't he listens to sheila james, but he's never actually listened to apology radio.

35:14

He has never never never Yeah, what's wrong with him? That's amazing Yeah, he'll never know all right

35:23

All right, guys. So, uh, here we go. Let's uh jump into the next piece So there was a video luke you bring us into this here.

35:30

Uh, tell this is uh, there's a uh, a couple guys Uh that uh did a video sent it to us, uh through apology of studios and go ahead pastor luke

35:41

So I think it was caleb was one of the hosts of the show and forgive me I don't remember the name of the show. I don't have it pulled up. You can fill us in on that So he had he had messages and said hey,

35:49

I did this video Uh on one of pastor jeff's sermons, you know, i'd love to have a dialogue with you guys and um, so caleb if you're watching this, uh, he was

36:00

Incredibly gracious which I appreciated and he was very kind Um, you know, but I I started to watch he told us it was about I think it was the original video

36:08

I think was about 15 minutes in or so He started to talk about a sermon you gave And and to be honest,

36:15

I only watched 10 or 15 minutes of the video Reason being I told caleb this there he made a lot of Really just false assumptions about you about our church about our position

36:25

And it was clear that they really hadn't done their homework. And so I just messaged him. I said hey if I were you

36:32

Uh, I would just take this down Um and maybe do a little more research Maybe talk to us more before you go and try to you know

36:39

Critique our position because you clearly don't even understand where we're coming from So That was the original interaction and I guess he did that he didn't take the video down But he did some homework and he has

36:48

I think he did. I think he tried to do some homework Yes, and so I caleb I thank you for doing that. I appreciate that I still say you should probably take the other video down, but we're gonna play the the new one.

36:57

I believe yeah What's gonna happen now? So so, uh, what we are going to do is play through uh, some comments made by these two gentlemen, uh about The I guess

37:07

I guess the law of god So I I want to make sure that I accurately represent these guys from what

37:12

I can gather In listening to some of the things that they've said in this video in particular These men believe that we need to follow all of the laws of the torah, um, and it's interesting to me because Uh, we believe at apologia church.

37:31

We are in the puritan tradition. We believe that our position is more historic Uh more and of course new testament biblical old testament biblical

37:41

We believe that the uh, the law of god has abiding relevance and validity today in the new covenant.

37:47

We agree with paul Essentially in romans chapter 3 verse 31. He says after saying that we cannot be justified through the law

37:54

He says, uh, therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law That's in romans 3 28 in romans 3 31 after of course this long string of discussion about the law

38:05

Not being able to justify anybody how it actually shuts the world up It exposes our sin. We all fall short to the purpose of what jesus did

38:12

He says do we then make void the law through faith? He says essentially no

38:19

Actually because of faith in jesus we establish the law. What's he referring to the old testament law?

38:26

So we believe that the law of god was a constituent part Of what god was going to do in the new covenant

38:33

You can see that in jeremiah 31 31 god says that in a new covenant He's going to write the law on their inward parts.

38:39

It's not going to be on the stone tablets external to the people of god It's going to be put within the people of god and they're going to be empowered by the spirit of god to do it

38:48

Ezekiel chapter 36 god says he's going to give people a new heart remove a heart of stone give a heart of flesh

38:53

He's going to cleanse them. He's going to cleanse them of all their idols And this is the key part He says he's going to put his spirit within them and cause them to obey his statutes

39:01

Isaiah chapter 2 the promise of the kingdom of god coming into the world one of the new covenant realities

39:06

Was that god was going to draw all the nations up to god's mountain? And it says the law the what the torah would go forth from zion

39:15

So god says that the law is a constituent part of the new covenant blessings, but it's not in the same way as the old

39:22

Covenant, uh in the same way really, um that they would have understood It's a new way empowered by the spirit of god now inward parts

39:30

There's more that can be said in the law of god and there's the new covenant authors Constantly constantly assuming the law of god from the old testament in the new so Contrary to what say new covenant theologians would say today where the all of the old testament law all old covenant law

39:47

Is now defunct it's over with unless it's just repeated in the new testament You don't see that in the new covenant

39:55

Writings and new testament authors you actually see the assumption of the continuity of the old testament law the torah

40:02

Except where the inspired apostles and writers actually tell you This is the new way to view this aspect of the law so for example the shadow things of the law of god in terms of rituals, uh, the

40:17

Commandments contained in ordinances the holiness code those sorts of things The new testament tells you how you're supposed to view those laws and how god has has broken down those boundaries

40:26

Between jew and gentile today. So what we're saying is is that your law can justify

40:33

Nobody, that's what the old testament teaches. That's what the new testament teaches Uh, you need christ for righteousness and the only way to receive christ is through faith and through faith alone

40:42

Uh, if you attempt to mingle the law of god plus faith and grace in order to be reconciled to god or justified paul

40:49

Condemns that and says that you are anathema to whatever degree you do it, even if it's down to one aspect of the old covenant law

40:58

Circumcision you are anathema you have fallen from grace paul says in galatians 5

41:04

Galatians chapter 3 says you're under the curse of the law to fulfill all of it if you go that direction

41:10

So it's through faith and through faith alone apart from any work of law We are to treat people who teach justification through faith and works to any degree as false teachers as anathema as Enemies, that's how as enemies of the faith of the gospel

41:27

So, um, you do see of course in new testament authors assuming the continuity of the old testament law except where?

41:35

There is a change Uh a new way in the administration of that law

41:41

Uh, so that's what's really important to understand in terms of our position in the law of god is that it has abiding relevance today

41:48

And of course I'll give you one passage in particular that shows you the promise of the messiah in terms of bringing

41:53

Justice through his law into the world and that's isaiah chapter 42. God promises Very clearly that the messiah himself is going to establish justice in the earth

42:04

He won't grow faint or weary doing it and the coastlands wait for his law his what his torah

42:11

So when someone says the law of god, it has no abiding relevance today in the new covenant I'd say you have a mountain of evidence to face.

42:20

Um as a christian in the new testament So, uh, it seems that at least from what we understood and listening to that first video

42:28

These gentlemen didn't really understand our position on the law of god No, and and i'll also say one thing that was caleb again if you're listening one thing that was confusing for us

42:36

I think the title of the first video was capital h heretic and so he started off by saying I think jeff would say that i'm a capital h heretic and I was like And someone else one of his friends or followers also messaged us and I was like,

42:47

I honestly I was like I don't even know who you guys are or like what you believe in there The response I kind of got was well, it's kind of hard to explain

42:54

So I was like, well, that's that's a problem one, but right but yeah, it's as far as The especially in the first video it was clear

43:01

Like that they didn't even really understand what theonomy is Our position and that's why

43:06

I was like you should do some homework I think I sent him a link on our podcast on the law of god like hey, here's stuff Just you understand where we're coming from.

43:13

So, yeah Yeah, and and in terms of what i've heard thus far, I don't mean this to be mean -spirited in a way But ultimately trying to love you, uh gentlemen is if you are trying to erect what has christ has broken down Through his coming through his death and resurrection

43:27

Him as the new temple him as the sacrifice once for all if you're trying to erect the things that god has actually broken down Then yeah,

43:36

I would call you a capital h heretic. There's no question about that Because I think that the new testament authors would refer to you as a capital h heretic when you try to erect

43:46

The shadows of the old covenant that were pointing to jesus and we have the substance who is christ and you try to erect

43:54

Random parts of the old testament law that were meant to be fulfilled in jesus

44:00

Um, I think that's a real problem. And if somebody say well, how am I supposed to know? I would say because the new testament authors tell you

44:08

And they assume the continuity law of god except where there's been a change and if someone says what change?

44:14

What do you mean? What change I would say? Well, I gotta give you an example in hebrews chapter 7 verse 11. Now if perfection had been attainable

44:21

Through the levitical priesthood for under it the people received the law What further need would there have been for another priest to rise after the order of melchizedek?

44:28

Rather than one named after the order of aaron for when there is a change in the priesthood There is necessarily a change in the law as well

44:36

Uh, there's an example and this of course there's more description here of hebrews chapter 7 8 and 9

44:42

Uh very clearly a description about what christ is accomplished as the messiah and the high priest once for all

44:49

Sacrifice and that why listen, this is so critical Why is the writer of the hebrews warning these first century jewish christians?

44:58

Not to go back to the shadows and those different parts of the law that are fulfilled in jesus

45:04

He's a better priest. He's a better prophet. He's a better king. He's a better sacrifice all of the new testament

45:11

Tells us that jesus is the substance we were waiting for and if somebody were to say well

45:16

That means the whole law goes I would say absolutely not. That's a non sequitur that does not logically follow

45:22

That because jesus has fulfilled some of what were shadows of the old testament and he's the substance so we don't do those anymore

45:30

That that necessarily means that all the laws defunct and over the new testament writers deny that very strongly violently deny that Again, romans 3 31 is a good example faith is what establishes the law

45:45

And how do you know which laws abide today on the new covenant? The new testament.

45:50

Yeah inspired apostles and writers tell you which parts go away Have a change in administration a change in a new way to look at them

45:59

So let's go ahead and play some of this. I was gonna say quickly this is a i'm glad you're you went here with this because i'm, just remembering when

46:06

I stopped watching the first video is when Um, they flat out said that the the old testament law cannot be divided into three

46:16

Parts, right? And so that's that's when I stopped goes like okay now This is this is a whole nother moral the typical, you know

46:22

And there's a there's a way that I would agree in terms of there's maybe a better way to define the parts of the law of god moral ceremonial

46:29

You know and judicial civil judicial, of course, I think that there can be that can be expanded upon and explained a little better um, but you do

46:37

Absolutely see that the new testament writers point to the ceremonial aspects of the law And there is just no way to deny this they tell us in no unequivocal terms

46:49

That the new that jesus with his coming and his sacrifice and death and resurrection has fulfilled these aspects of the law

46:56

So we don't go back and re -erect what god has taken down Uh, so let's go ahead and play this so I sent that Last week's show

47:05

I sent that to mr Durbin through facebook and then I sent it also to his church. Uh, he's the pastor of apologia church

47:12

In um, I believe it's tucson, arizona Tempe, uh, yeah, we're in the valley tempe phoenix area.

47:19

Um, so just you know, I I don't want to you know Jab him too much on that.

47:25

But but yeah, I think it's pretty obvious in all of our stuff where we're at and um, I wrote and said

47:30

I don't expect you to watch this. I because you know what honestly people send me They send me

47:38

Videos that are an hour long pretty much two to three to four times a day. I'll get things like that So I don't have time to to you know, unfortunately,

47:46

I wish I did but I don't have time To just sit down and watch youtube all day long. That would be nice, but I don't so I don't expect mr.

47:55

Durbin to sit down and watch our show either Um, but actually, uh someone at apologia church actually got back to me they said mr

48:03

Durbin is um away on a uh on a mission trip right now And uh, this is the response that they gave me they said, um, and very respectful by the way, uh,

48:14

I was I was Uh delighted to have this interaction with uh, whoever it was who was responding with me.

48:19

Absolutely He said hey caleb. I listened to about 15 minutes respectfully It is clear that you are not aware of our position or where jeff is coming from I would encourage you to think about taking this show down and doing more research before trying to respond

48:32

I mean this with no ill will or disrespect, but you made a lot of false assumptions in just a short section

48:38

I watched a little homework will go a long way. I very much appreciate the kindness with which you spoke

48:43

But just to be honest, I was hard It was hard to watch because of all of the assumptions you made for your own credibility

48:50

I'd encourage you to consider this god bless now after this Now we actually i'm glad uh that he actually quoted all that you said there

48:58

I want you to understand that when luke or I Say that to somebody we mean it again

49:04

Like luke said no ill will we mean that in in very very sincere terms

49:09

Um when you do things like this where you misrepresent somebody's position or you demonstrate you haven't done your homework to understand where they're coming from Um, it leaves behind a record of ignorance

49:20

Um, and so I you know, it would be bad I mean a mistake here or there in terms of like tucson or phoenix, you know

49:26

You know, not a big deal, but in terms of misrepresenting our theological position You might be excited to get your view forth into the world and try to have some interaction.

49:37

But when you're Speaking about a ministry that has been very clear in our position or law of god and literally has hundreds of hours

49:45

Online about our position or law of god and if you misrepresent us, I think it again leaves behind a record of ignorance

49:50

Yeah, that's something we learned from dr White, you know as any opponent he goes against he always makes sure he has an accurate and thorough

49:59

Understanding of their position oftentimes probably more than they even do and so we try to do the same and we get

50:04

I get messages all the time where people like Oh, have you heard of this guy? You should talk about him and i'm like, I don't know who he is Right in terms of a real critical critique exactly unless unless it's someone that Unless we maybe have a guest on that is an expert maybe in a certain cult or whatever

50:17

I'm, not going to speak on it because i'm not going to accidentally misrepresent their position, right?

50:23

If we're trying to do a critique of somebody's position, I want to know their position I mean in general if we're going to do like an hour -long episode critiquing somebody and their theology

50:31

I better know what they actually believe So just so you understand in terms of when pastor luke wrote that to you.

50:36

Uh, we mean it A lot person then sent me a link which is in your show notes And the link is to a search on the apologia church website or apology or radio website

50:47

And all the person did was search law and then uh posted a link to the search results and there is

50:56

A substantial amount that mr. Durbin has done on the law and I will

51:01

Openly and thankfully say that um, unlike many christians, mr

51:06

Durbin is uh, very what I would call pro -law in what he says a lot of the time

51:13

So he's fought for the idea that um, the law is not done away with he's fought for the idea

51:19

And I I spent about three and a half hours yesterday, uh listening to mr. Durbin speak on law

51:24

Um, he has been in debates defending the idea that christians should keep the law Um, so on and so forth, so there's a huge amount of of uh that there's there's credibility that I can give to mr.

51:37

Durbin in that A lot of what he has said and a lot of what he has fought for I would agree with right

51:45

I would say yes, but I'll give you one example So, um,

51:50

I listened to one of the shows that he did And I think it was actually the most recent one that came up in that search

51:57

And For the whole show for about an hour He's talking about law and how it's good and uh, all these kind of things and then he says, you know, it's not

52:05

We as as christians keep passover And I thought well great

52:11

That's awesome But then in the same breath, he says we don't take the leaven out of our house

52:20

Instead now we take the malice out of our lives paul tells us, you know, therefore take malice out of your heart so that's how so it's almost this double speak because and Once again, well, it's allegorical.

52:34

Well, no, it's apostle speak Yeah, uh, not double speak It's apostle speak because what

52:40

I was quoting from there and it goes to what I was saying in terms of consistency Our position is that you assume the continuity of the old testament law except for the new testament authors give you inspired

52:50

Revelation to tell you what parts or aspects where have had a change of administration Or how you're supposed to view it now

52:57

I just want to point something out to you here, um to show your inconsistency And I think I would I would really hope that you receive this your critique here is that we are going to Say first corinthians chapter 5 where the apostle paul talks about how we're supposed to view passover now

53:11

And you're saying no. No, no, if you say we have to keep passover We have to keep it in the old testament way. I would say excellent.

53:17

Let's see if you're consistent you killing any lambs You killing any lambs on passover?

53:24

And if you were to say to me, well, no, we don't do that aspect of passover. Um, we're not doing that anymore

53:29

I would say why is that? Why aren't you doing that aspect of passover anymore? Well, because christ the lamb of god

53:35

Oh Because you have the substance who has come now and accomplished what the passover was pointing to you

53:41

You actually don't do the passover in the same way I would point out to you that neither do you actually do passover in the same old testament way

53:50

Uh, and you know that you don't Do passover in the same exact way because all those things in terms of sad shadows and symbols and all the things that they meant and pointed to The substance is christ.

54:00

He's the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world He's the one who was killed in our place. He is the passover lamb

54:06

He is the one whose legs were not broken all you get the point You you you see very clearly that it's not double speak.

54:13

It's christian speak. It's bible speak. It's apostle speak It's first corinthians chapter 5 verse 6

54:21

Your boasting is not good Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump as You are you really are unleavened for christ messiah

54:30

Our passover lamb has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival Not with the old leaven the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth

54:41

And if you say well, you're just allegorizing it now i'd say well is the apostle paul allegorizing it right there?

54:47

Doesn't the apostle paul give us inspired revelation there about how we're supposed to view passover and the leaven and unleavened bread

54:55

Um, so again, this is not double speak. It's trying to be consistent with the new testament revelation

55:00

It's not pitting new testament revelation against old testament revelation It's allowing the one god to speak through the two covenants and the one god to provide revelation through his inspired apostles about which

55:13

Aspects of torah are fulfilled in jesus and have had a change a transformation in how we're to view them so again, it's not double speak it's apostle speak

55:25

Yeah, exactly. He's he's trying to out but but this is the interesting thing about what he's doing He's saying that it wasn't allegory before christ came

55:33

But then it became allegory So now we do it in the heart. It's not all

55:39

No, that's not what i'm saying. And this is another example of you. Um Misrepresenting the person that you're attempting to critique in the old testament.

55:47

I don't believe that the blood of bulls and goats ever actually washed away anybody's sins

55:54

Those in the old testament were standing symbols and shadows pointing to what god was ultimately going to accomplish

56:00

And I don't believe in the old testament any of the ritual that existed Was its standalone thing

56:06

And being the full substance in itself It was a symbol it was a shadow even then and it was pointing to a greater spiritual reality even then

56:16

But they were training wheels for the people of god To to train them and equip them and point them to messiah so that when he came they would know who he was

56:26

And what he was there for it was preparation all along the way about what god was going to do in jesus

56:32

You think the temple actually then meant a standalone thing by itself

56:37

Just the temple or was it always pointing to the substance which was jesus How about that passover lamb you think the passover lamb then?

56:45

Was itself ultimately taking judgment and all of the symbolism that was there or was it always pointing to jesus?

56:53

Or how about this when abraham offered isaac on the altar on the mountain in genesis, uh, 22

56:59

To uh, excuse me at the moment was was that the thing? Was isaac the thing at moriah was him carrying the wood to the place of the sacrifice the thing?

57:10

Uh was the ram caught in the thicket the thing? Well, or when when uh, when abraham says that god will provide for himself the lamb my son

57:19

Was he talking about a physical lamb there or was he talking about the true lamb the lamb of god?

57:25

So when you say in this, um little clip you have here that's uh, You know, jeff views it this way or that way.

57:31

It's clear. You don't know how I view it So again, I think i'll reiterate with what pastor luke.

57:37

I almost called you the apostle luke Uh, i'll reiterate what pastor luke a little bit of a you got a little bit of a um, yeah a bump up there

57:44

Um what he said to you in his message to you that you ought to take these down Uh, not because we have any fear, uh at all in terms of these things being up but in reality for your own good

57:57

When you misrepresent your opponent, um, I think that it's important that you you know Either fess up to it or you make a determination to do better in the future and you know, take these down I was gonna say paul was pretty clear about why abraham was justified.

58:10

So i'm glad you brought that up, right? Right a little bit But parts of it we do in the heart and you know, he he's real big on on matthew 5 17

58:19

Not the least of these commandments Well is taking leaven out of your house one of the least of these commandments? I would say if it is one of the least of these commandments

58:27

Yeshua tells us don't even think that it's done away with not until heaven and earth pass away and so the idea that this

58:34

Okay, so let's put that to the test if you read jesus in matthew 5 17 through 19 is saying the least of these commandments

58:41

You have to so you have to do every part and piece of the law I would say so are you looking to rebuild a temple?

58:47

Are you looking to reinstitute animal sacrifices? Are you looking to erect now all the things that the new testament?

58:54

writers say Is done away with or when jesus declares all foods clean

59:00

Are you now saying that they're not? When the messiah himself takes a law

59:05

That had a particular boundary marker to it a particular meaning to it that jesus himself the messiah himself says

59:12

You're to view this in a new way Are you saying that we need to re -erect that that that's what jesus meant there?

59:17

I call that dangerous proof texting because jesus says of course, you know the language

59:23

I saw a piece of your video, you know the language there In the greek it's do not even begin to think that i've come

59:30

To destroy the law of the prophets. I have not come to destroy but what's the word there to fulfill them?

59:35

And so we have to ask the question. What does jesus mean by that? He doesn't destroy or abolish the law, but he brings it to its proper place.

59:44

He fulfills it So the least of these commandments Um, we can't then say well that means that jesus wants us now to start killing animal sacrifices to re -institute the levitical

59:55

Priesthood and start doing yom kippur again and all those things I would say that your argument isn't with jeff durbin of apologia church

01:00:03

Your argument is with the lord. Jesus your argument with the apostle paul and in particular I would say your argument is with very clearly the writer of the book of hebrews

01:00:13

Who clearly teaches that there are aspects of the old testament law fulfilled in jesus that we do not now re -erect

01:00:21

Why do you think the writer of hebrews is warning the people of god in the first century not to go back to all the shadows?

01:00:29

Don't go back to temple. Don't go back to that priesthood Don't go back to all those sacrifices

01:00:34

Why because we have christ and god the writer of hebrews says at the very end is about to once more shake

01:00:42

Heaven and earth meaning what he's going to remove those things which can be shaken

01:00:48

What is that referring to the temple all the old covenant structures and all that stuff

01:00:53

God is about to destroy all of that so that what cannot be shaken will remain and what is that?

01:00:59

Those spiritual aspects That those things were always pointing to always that are in christ will remain forever

01:01:08

That is what the writer of hebrews is talking about And yet what i'm getting here And this is why I say big h heretic

01:01:14

Is that you are trying to do what the writer of hebrews says you must not ever do And that is re -erect all the shadows and all those symbols that pointed to the true spiritual realities in jesus christ and if you're worried

01:01:29

About what you do see and i'll confess to it in much of modern evangelicalism where you see christians today

01:01:35

Dismissive of the law of god saying that it is done away with and all of it is defunct and all of it is over I would say it's not either or It's not re -erect all of the old covenant shadows and start doing all these things that are fulfilled in jesus

01:01:48

And the new testament writers say don't go back to Or we're just done with the law completely you can have a more consistent view of the law of god

01:01:56

That goes with what the apostles actually teach about the law of god and what the old testament says about the law of god

01:02:02

It's not an either or If you look too, I was just I just went to the passage to refresh my memory matthew 5

01:02:09

It after he says, you know talks about the least of these uh He goes on then to say you've heard it said you've heard it said you've heard it said

01:02:17

Talking about like adultery and murder and then goes on to talk about how that applies inwardly

01:02:22

And you know, it's a god's looking at at our hearts More than our outward actions just to go back to what you what he was critiquing you on earlier with it

01:02:31

Always was exactly. Yeah, that's an excellent excellent point because you'll hear people say that actually one of my one of my my friends one of my good friends

01:02:40

Uh, dr. Michael brown. I love him. Uh, we're friends. We're brothers. We've done things together

01:02:45

Um, he's a jewish believer in jesus when he talks about matthew 5 and jesus with sexual ethic

01:02:52

He says that in a new testament jesus amplifies He uh, he strengthens and makes bigger the commandment.

01:02:59

I don't agree with that I think that god always condemned adultery in the heart and the new testament ethic isn't now making it stronger

01:03:07

Jesus is explaining the true intention always right what it always was. Uh, that's actually a really good point.

01:03:13

I'm glad you brought that up All becomes allegory and maybe not all maybe that's too broad of a statement for what?

01:03:19

Mr. Durbin believes and and teaches but the idea that if I keep a kosher diet

01:03:25

And I teach others that they need to be keeping a kosher diet because that's what scripture says Or that you should be keep taking the leaven out of your house during passover because that's what the scripture says

01:03:34

Or that you should circumcise your son on the eighth day because that's what scripture says. Oh, wow.

01:03:40

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow gentlemen big h heretic

01:03:46

Without question big h heretic dangerous dangerous dangerous dangerous theology here

01:03:55

Soteriology, i'm not sure exactly what you believe in terms of faith and works and all these different things I'm not going to make an assumption here and say what it is

01:04:02

But i'll tell you right now if you're telling people that they need to circumcise their child To essentially become jewish before they come christian

01:04:09

Um, I i'd say that is deadly and if you're talking about adding circumcision as a constituent element of new covenant law

01:04:18

I would say you have a lot to face with the apostle paul the words of god in the book of galatians

01:04:24

And i'll say all the way i'll say exactly go all the way i'd say the apostle paul would say to you I hope you emasculate yourself um, but in terms of um

01:04:33

You know when you say dietary laws and all these different things because that's what scripture says

01:04:39

I would say yeah, god also tells them to sacrifice animals

01:04:44

On a particular day and to confess his sins on one animal you still doing that today? Let's drive you to consistency.

01:04:51

You still doing that today? You still talking about temple and a priest who is laying hands on a particular animal and sending one off and killing another you still?

01:04:59

Doing that today or do you recognize yourself that the new testament authors tell you what parts are fulfilled?

01:05:05

And if you say well, yeah, because the new testament tells you that that's fulfilled in jesus I would say excellent because the apostle paul says in ephesians chapter 2 very clearly verse 11

01:05:16

Therefore remember that at one time you gentiles in the flesh called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision which is made in the flesh by hands

01:05:23

Remember that you were at that time separated from christ alienated from the commonwealth of israel and strangers to the covenants of promise

01:05:30

By the way, very important for believers to hear this today even not in this argument right now

01:05:35

Notice how the apostle paul says that the covenants plural of promise

01:05:42

Singular covenants all the covenants of god summed up in a singular promise singular

01:05:47

So they're connected see according to scripture Having no hope and without god in the world

01:05:52

But now in christ jesus you who were once far were far off have been brought near by the blood of christ

01:05:57

For he here it is guys himself is our peace Who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by listen, please

01:06:12

Abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances

01:06:18

That he might create in himself one new man In place of the two so making peace and might reconcile us both to god in one body through the cross thereby killing the hostility

01:06:29

So when you say like Well, the god says to do this in the old testament. Yeah, he certainly does and then through inspiration

01:06:36

We see that through jesus the messiah through what he's accomplished He has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances

01:06:47

So it's it's very very critical to let the new testament inspired apostles and the lord.

01:06:54

Jesus christ the moshiach Let them determine what aspects of the old testament law the torah come over into the new because they do come over which aspects well

01:07:06

We don't have any right to pick and choose ourselves We have to let the inspired writers of scripture tell us

01:07:12

Which parts do and i'll tell you right now if you start circumcising children And putting those obligations today upon members of the new covenant telling them they at the first become circumcised

01:07:23

That they need to keep that circumcision, right? I would say you have a lot to answer for and you are preaching something that is big h heresy big h and if you say well

01:07:35

How can you get all these spiritualizations and all these things in the old covenant law? I'd say well, it's right there in ephesians chapter 2 where he talks about that dividing wall broken down.

01:07:43

Look at what he says verse 18 for through him we have Both have access in one spirit to the father

01:07:49

So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints members of the household of god

01:07:54

Built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone in whom the whole structure being joined together grew

01:08:03

Grows into a holy temple in the lord In him you

01:08:09

Also are being built together into a dwelling place for god by the spirit It sound like the apostle here is using the old testament symbols and imagery and now applying it to the church

01:08:23

What right do we have now to start erecting again

01:08:28

What god has said is fulfilled in jesus and not to go back to you want to go back to the dividing wall?

01:08:35

You want to go back to erecting that those boundary markers the holiness commandments?

01:08:41

The things that divided jew from gentile you now want to re -erect what jesus the messiah tore down to make one new man

01:08:50

You're an enemy of the gospel That's how serious this is. You are an enemy of the gospel

01:08:56

And if you say no i'm just trying to to live a holy life and obey god's commandments I would say at the expense of the work of jesus.

01:09:04

How dare you? And how dare you use the name of jesus the messiah? to um to support

01:09:12

Your views that are condemned in the new covenant This is dangerous stuff.

01:09:18

And so if you say, you know, I would say jeff sees us as big h heretics I would say that's because the apostle

01:09:24

Paul would call you that read the book of galatians read ephesians chapter two Read the book of hebrews the apostles would call you big h heretic

01:09:32

You're an enemy of the gospel and for those of you guys that know me You know that at all

01:09:37

I don't always speak in these kinds of harsh terms i'm not always Like this. I try to be gracious where I can i've got disagreements with brothers and sisters in christ

01:09:45

I've got a whole host of issues and I don't just throw around the term big heretic all the time I abhor the internet trolls that toss around the word heretic freely and you know

01:09:55

I want to say that you have to be very cautious who you use that word for but when the apostles themselves identify your movement and your teachings as An abomination as anathema as ultimately heresy then as a minister of the gospel.

01:10:12

I need to So I would call you both to repentance And i'll call you to abandon

01:10:18

Your attempts to re -erect all that jesus has torn down you talked about this sunday with uh, john and the sons of thunder

01:10:24

Yeah at the uh roman bath Yes Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we'll tell people about that.

01:10:30

You went. Yeah. Yeah So the story he was he was hanging on the roman bath and you saw big h heretic come in and that's right

01:10:36

He went running out as fast as he could stay away from them Yeah, we know a story from uh, john the apostle john son of zebedee son of thunder

01:10:44

His disciple was polycarp We know a story from polycarp to irenaeus That the apostle john was in a roman bathhouse bathing and through the steam.

01:10:54

He saw A well -known gnostic heretic in the first century named syrinthus He saw him through the steam and he goes running out of the roman bathhouse

01:11:03

Warning everybody about the wrath of god that the ceiling might fall down on everybody because of this heretic that was inside there

01:11:10

So, you know the apostle paul tells in galatians 5 these judaizers that he hoped he hopes that they cut off Their man parts

01:11:21

He hopes they cut them off. They emasculate themselves. They like to play with knives. I hope you go all the way

01:11:27

That's how serious the apostle paul is about the heresy and false teaching of re -erecting that part of the old covenant

01:11:33

Um, you've got of course examples in scripture of the apostles condemning false teachers that would lead people astray

01:11:40

I would say um with your very gracious attitude and behavior and your very loving spirits

01:11:45

I would call you to repentance and I boy I hope you turn away from this stuff because it is deadly deadly deadly to take

01:11:52

And start rebuilding what jesus took down man. It's dangerous. Amen So we went for a long time today.

01:11:58

I'm not going to play the jehovah's witness clip today because of time Uh any last words guys? No, it's a good discussion

01:12:05

Caleb I hope you watch it. There's about a minute left in that discussion there We'll maybe save it for next time or something.

01:12:11

I think we've said uh, probably enough This is joy's last show as a single woman. It is a single girl.

01:12:16

We're so happy. It's such a huge answer to prayer joy Tim b is getting married joy the girl this saturday at my house.

01:12:24

Yeah, it's true It's by the way, it's by you guys beautified. Yeah Both we got to talk about that today.

01:12:31

How are we gonna marry this girl? So yeah, when you see her next time, which is it being a couple of weeks?

01:12:37

She will be mrs hunter That's true. I don't know if I like it's hard to say that.

01:12:42

Yeah, mrs. Hunter. She's still the girl to us She'll always be the girl. Yeah. All right guys. Apology of studios

01:12:48

Is where you get us apology of studios .com Encourage you to go there get every last episode there are over 300 episodes of the radio show and podcast

01:12:57

Encourage you also to sign up for all access when you do you partner with us as a ministry you make all this possible You get the tv show the after show and apology academy encourage you to go to endabortionnow .com

01:13:08

Sign up your church to start getting with us In this ministry to save the lives of children the pre -born in our nations plural because now we're in ireland united states canada

01:13:19

Coming to australia and new zealand, by the way, if you are in brisbane sydney or christchurch, new zealand

01:13:26

Uh encourage you to come out and say hi to us. We're gonna be in brisbane november the 10th

01:13:33

Is that right? I think so. November the 10th in brisbane go to endabortionnow .com Australia to get the details.

01:13:39

We're gonna be in sydney november 12th. Yes, and we're gonna be in new zealand november the 15th

01:13:48

Preaching in november 15th in christchurch. Yes, so pray for us. We're coming out guys

01:13:53

Uh to preach the gospel and final word here New program and series at apologia studios.

01:13:59

It's called cultish Uh, it is a deep examination of the cults.

01:14:05

It is very different from apologia radio Uh in that we're going to really dive into the world of the cults jim jones apollo quibble

01:14:13

David koresh joseph smith. You name it. We're going in. We just finished the four first episodes

01:14:19

We're going to drop at the same time. We even have an interview with an ex -scientologist Uh, her story is amazing

01:14:26

Scientology when she left put a contract out on her life and they tried to kill her and her husband

01:14:33

It's an amazing story. It's all going to be dropped soon at cultish at apologia studios

01:14:39

Dot com Cultish you'll be seeing it there. Encourage you guys to check it all out.

01:14:44

We love you all. Thank you. Uh joy the girl See ya luke the bear. I'm the ninja.