Conversation with Confused Mormon

False Christ and the Need for Objective Truth

This church is teaching you a false Christ. You're on public property now, sir. God says, I am the Lord, I do not change. But he does change. The Bible says he doesn't.

I baptize Lutheran, and I see...

The LDS Church teaches a false Jesus.

You know what? I believe in the same Jesus I believed in before, but I never could believe in the Trinity.

I never believed in... That's not... That's a false Jesus, then. No, it's not a false Jesus. Yeah, it really is. Uh, and how? Because the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God. Um, but he... Was that the Council...

The Council of Nicaea? The Council of Nicaea. Yeah, Nicaea. That's not where the doctrine of the Trinity was created. That's where the Christians came together to put down the doctrine against the Trinity.

God can't come down amongst any unearthly thing and have saved us. Okay, do you know what... So, you're saying he's an apparition that came down?

No, he came down in bodily form as Jesus the Son.

He's not allowed to take on bodily form. Says who? Says every other religion I've been into unless they're trying to... Unless they're trying... I'm older than you. Unless they're trying to accommodate people now, or they will not have people come to their churches because it's based on...

People don't get paid in ministries where... You know what I mean? They don't have a ministry if they don't get people to come. Okay. So if you bend rules just to have people come, that's wrong. Let me ask you this.

You grew up Lutheran. Do you think that Jesus created all things?

Yes, I believe Jesus created all things. Do you think he created Satan? Is Satan included in all things? I believe that Satan is his brother. So he didn't create Satan? God created Satan and Jesus and the rest of us.

So Jesus didn't create everything?

You're saying that God created everything but Jesus didn't?

God created everything on this earth. Satan existed before this earth.

You know, are you familiar with Colossians 1 .15? Tell me what you want to say. It's talking about Christ. It says that he created all things. All things. All things on this earth. It doesn't say this earth.

That's what they've inserted. It says all things whether earth or in heaven. You know what?

All we know is that to my heart it speaks the truth. I try to be the best person possible. I believe that you will go to heaven. I believe that you will go to heaven. I don't believe in this scaring people into hell.

Yes, I do try to be a good person. If that's considered works, follow what you want.

But it makes me happy. Ma 'am, I've not tried to scare you out of hell.

Well, you can't scare me because that's all I was until... I'm trying to present scripture to you. That's what I'm trying to show you. But you know what? God can speak to us also. We don't have to just believe in...

I mean, we've got a living God.

We've got a living Christ. Yes, we do. But what I'm trying to show you is teaching something contrary to what scripture teaches.

What I'm trying to say is that you're saying that when I speak to Christ and feel that where I am is okay, are the people all right? No. Are the people in any religion all good? No. There's hypocrites in all religions and all faiths.

But what I'm trying to tell you is it speaks to me that I pray and it speaks to me that we're all spirit children of Jesus Christ. I mean, he's our brother. That we're all children of God.

And I believe in that relationship. You just had some residual Lutheranism come out of your mouth just now.

No, what it is is called I have anxiety medication. It's called gonadsepam. And it's hard for me to stay on track as far as thoughts. But what I'm trying to tell you is I don't worry about you. I know that God is...

I just don't worry about this thing. I worry about you if it means anything to you. You know what? That's why we're here because there's going to be 15 ,000 people here believing in a false Jesus and a false God and a false gospel.

And we're called to go to all the nations to make disciples. And so are we. And you're not. You're making false disciples. No, you're judging me. I'm not judging you. Yes, you are. I'm not saying that of you.

How to Test Truth by Scripture

It's fine. Let me ask you this. How do we objectively test something? Well, let me explain something. Hold on. Can you answer my question? Where do we get objective truth? How do we objectively test whether something is true or not?

I pray to God. That's subjective. Objective truth is Scripture. That's our final authority. Truth is Scripture, God's Word, right? Okay, let me just explain something.

As far as a Catholic, everything that's an off break of the Catholics is false. Because you guys... Yeah, we're not an off break of the Catholics. You guys, let me explain it. The Catholics claim that they get the priesthood from, you know, the last apostle.

But there's no such thing as divine authority in that sense. It has to come from God. So where do you get your authority? God's Word. That's our objective.

No, you said divine authority. Yes. No. Yes. No, we're in the Scriptures. You just say divine authority. What you're saying is that the Mormon Church has apostles and they can...

No, it had to be restored, and that makes sense. You're just claiming divine authority, which even the Catholics believe.

I'm trying to use God's Word. What I'm trying to say is you have to have an objective standard of truth in order to test everything. You know what?

I lost my first son. I've gone through horrendous things in my life. I'm sorry to hear that. No, and this is what I'm trying to tell you. If they think he's going to go to hell and I'm going to hell, then I'm not supposed to be there.

God bless you.