May 12, 2026 Show with Simon O’Mahony on “Why We Use Fermented Wine in the Lord’s Supper, & Why We Celebrate It Every Sunday”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 12th day of May, 2026.

Before I introduce to you our guest for the day and our topic, I want to remind everybody listening to mark your calendars for this

Thursday on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are having as a first -time guest actor

Jonathan Blair, and he is going to be our guest to discuss his portrayal of George Whitefield in the current new film,

A Great Awakening, which is the movie about the life of George Whitefield as seen through the eyes of founding father

Benjamin Franklin. So, I hope that you mark your calendars for that interview and that you even email us some questions to Jonathan at chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Well, today, we are going to be discussing a controversial subject, which really should not be controversial.

In fact, the only reason it should be controversial is if we were having this conversation in the 1800s and people were beginning to use unfermented grape juice in the

Lord's Supper. That would have been controversial if that were the case, but obviously we can't go back in time in a time machine and do that.

Today, we are addressing why we use fermented wine in the Lord's Supper and why we celebrate it every

Sunday. And to discuss this is a returning guest who happens to be my pastor,

Simon O'Maney, who is pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

And welcome back to Iron Trippin's Iron Radio, Pastor Simon. Thank you,

Chris. Thanks for having me on to join you on the show. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

And if you could, just let our listeners know something about Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Yeah, certainly.

Yeah, we are a body of believers called together and assembled by the

Lord Jesus Christ. We gather each week, each Lord's Day, to sit under the ministry of the

Word and the means of grace, the things that God promises to use to grow us in grace.

And we seek to grow in our knowledge and love of the Lord Jesus Christ. And by God's grace, we're also a body that the

Lord has knit together and we, by God's grace, grow as well in our love and unity for one another.

And so if you're in the area or even passing through, we'd love to have you visit with us and join us for worship and for fellowship.

Amen. And if you'd like to find out more information about Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, go to trbccarlisle .org,

that's T -R -B -C, and then carlisle, C -A -R -L -I -S -L -E, dot org.

And God willing, I'll be repeating that toward the end of the program. Well, as I said, it has become quite a controversial issue amongst evangelicals when they discover that there are some evangelical churches that have begun to use fermented wine instead of grape juice in the

Lord's Supper. And it seems to me, from what I have observed, there's a growing number of churches, perhaps even especially amongst the

Reformed, who are doing so. And you and I were once a part of a church, a congregation that used grape juice.

And I was just wondering, how long ago did you have this conviction build up in your heart and mind that grape juice was not the best way to obey the

Scriptures when observing the Lord's table? That's a good question,

Chris. Good way to start our conversation, our thinking about this. You know,

I think I would say that it was probably during seminary that I began to think more about this, because ultimately, we ought to always go back to what

Scripture says about something. The move away from wine to the use of pasteurized grape juice was the result of societal pressure and the church essentially going with the flow, pardon the pun, and making that switch.

But neither should we simply switch back to wine simply to go with the flow and to follow the crowd.

We should always ask, what does Scripture have to say about this? You know, when it comes to worship, we believe that Scripture, God's word, regulates the things that we do in worship as well as the things we don't do.

And as we look to Scripture, we see that the Lord has given us two ordinances, the

Lord's supper and baptism. And as part of the Lord's supper, he's given us two elements to use in that.

In baptism, we have water, but in the Lord's supper, we have bread and wine. When our

Lord instituted the supper, on the night when he was betrayed, he gathered his disciples, he took bread and he took a cup filled with wine and he told them to eat and to drink of these things until he returns.

And therefore, as the church, we should neither alter the signs of the supper nor change them in any kind of way.

Rather, we want to receive from Christ what he has given to us. And would you say that the decision when we constituted as a new church, right from the get -go, when we began the new church,

Trinity Reformed Baptist Church, we began immediately to use fermented wine in the celebration of the

Lord's supper. Would you say that this is just a demonstration of being a better way to celebrate the

Lord's supper or the only way? And why I say that is, for instance, you and I were once celebrating the

Lord's supper with grape juice. Were we not in reality celebrating it or were we just doing so in an inferior way?

And that's a question that'll get me into trouble. That's exactly why

I asked this. I'm only kidding. Yeah, you're not holding back even for your own pastor. No, I mean,

I think, you know, I think at the end of the day, again, we need to ask the question, what does the Bible present as the way we're supposed to do it?

And my goal really is to ask that of Scripture. How ought we to observe the supper?

And the answer the Scripture gives is that it's with wine. You know, I think if someone switches from wine to something else, the burden of proof will be on them to make a case for why they've moved away from wine.

I would certainly say at the very least that when you substitute anything that price is given with something else, you're going to lose something.

At the very least, you're losing the rich significance of what wine means. And hopefully we'll get to that through our talk today.

But yeah, worst case scenario, what you could be observing might not be the Lord's Supper. You know,

Paul warns the Corinthians that because of the manner of their partaking of the supper, it's actually stopped becoming the supper.

So I would simply want to, you know, encourage those who maybe have veered away from the scriptural example to go back to it so that they might be assured that they are following things

Christ's way. But in many ways, that question kind of assumes all that we're about to talk about.

And why is it important that we use specifically the elements that are set forth in the scriptures in the

Lord's Supper? I just learned recently when I was studying about this topic, something that I did not know about the cult known as the

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, the Mormons, they use bread and water in the

Lord's Supper. And I found out something that I didn't know as to why they use bread and water.

Joseph Smith taught you can use any food in the

Lord's Supper, and they chose water just because it's free or inexpensive at any rate.

And therefore, they started using water, and especially on top of that, since Mormons are forbidden to consume alcohol.

But not that we would even want to borrow anything that the

Mormons do, because they are a cult. They are one of the most polytheistic cults in existence, have a false gospel, false

God. We could go on and on about everything about them that's false. But why is it important in your mind, very important, to be using the specific elements that are explained in the

Bible? Yeah, I think it goes back to the regulative principle of Scripture and of worship, the idea that God regulates or He sets the rules for how

He is to be worshiped. And He gives us the preaching of the Word. He gives us the

Lord's Supper and prayer. And we are to focus on these things in our worship together.

Again, if we deviate from those things, not only do we lose out, but we fall short of the worship that He's called us to.

But it's interesting you mention the Mormons observing what they observe with water.

I was an army chaplain in the U .S. Army for a time, and I had to observe a

Mormon meeting. And I did observe them doing that. But it's interesting. It's not just the

Mormons. I mean, you hear of churches today who substitute the elements with Coca -Cola and potato chips.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, as soon as you move away from the regulative principle, what are the boundaries, as long as you're sincere?

But it's interesting, even the use of water isn't unique to the

Mormons. Around the time prior to pasteurized grape juice being invented in 1869, many churches were actually also using water, among other things.

The trend towards using grape juice began, actually, and originated with, in America, with the feminist movement.

The feminists pushed for the temperance movement. So the 19th century feminists at the time were, you could say, rightly concerned with the social problem of drunkenness.

Right? Drunkenness is a sin. But they began to push for total abstinence from alcohol.

It became known as the temperance movement, but really it wasn't temperance. Temperance speaks to moderation, self -control.

What they were calling for was a complete abstinence from alcohol altogether. Well, in the

US, this movement began to grow and gain steam. And churches began to fall under this cultural influence.

And as a result, total abstinence became kind of a new mark of piety and kind of religiosity.

And if abstinence from alcohol altogether is a mark of piety, then what do you do with the

Lord's Supper? Well, that becomes a problem. And so many churches tried to find alternatives to wine.

So some found substitutes in mixtures of, one church, group of churches, had a mixture of boiled raisins and egg whites, which sounds terrible.

Others used grape juice, or sorry, grape syrup, some used water, some used water mixed with molasses.

Well, in 1869, a Methodist dentist by the name of Thomas Bramwell Welch discovered how to make grape juice that would preserve without fermenting, because I'll get into this in a minute.

But essentially, as soon as a grape is crushed, it begins to ferment, especially so in a hot climate like in Israel and whatnot.

But Welch applied Louis Pasteur's pasteurization process in order to create this non -fermenting grape juice.

It was his son then, Charles, who was a very skilled salesman, who commercialized it as Dr.

Welch's unfermented wine, which is actually a contradiction in terms.

Unfermented wine, wine is fermented, that's what wine is. And by the early 20th century, this became standard for communion in many

American denominations. And that's really the origins of where we are today, where there are so many who use this grape juice and really take it for granted.

Yeah, and from what I heard, it took a while for the grape juice to become accepted and used regularly by most churches.

Even Baptist churches were not quickly buying into Dr. Welch's unfermented wine for the

Lord's Supper. Yeah, that's right. But again, for 1869 years, the church observed the

Lord's Supper with wine. I mean, that's just a historical fact. And I think that that is probably something,

I am guessing, the majority of evangelicals do not know that. Yeah, yeah, it's, yes,

I assume most evangelicals, including myself, not too many years ago, this would have been news to me as well.

But it does, it ought to at least cause us to kind of ask the question, hmm, you know, should, why did this switch happen?

And, you know, is this something we should be doing? And perhaps we should tackle something fairly early on in the discussion.

I know that you're going, in fact, I am asked this, usually every single time

I am asked by folks to describe

Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle and for me to tell them things that might be different about us.

And I bring up that we use fermented wine in the

Lord's table. And the comment usually is, well, what about the people who have a drinking problem?

They are alcoholics and they are frightened to go near alcohol, even in small amounts.

And they perhaps think that they should not touch it because of their problem.

Well, as a lot of people in my audience already know, because of the fact that I've brought my testimony up a number of times,

I am a former drunkard, a drunkard who drank after backsliding after 18 years of sobriety when becoming a

Corningan believer, backsliding back into habitual drunkenness at a scandalous level and was under church discipline, went to Hebron Colony, which is a wonderful drug and alcohol recovery and rehabilitation program in Boone, North Carolina, and left there not desiring a drop of booze ever since.

And I can say, and I can only speak for myself, but I am never triggered by having fermented wine at the

Lord's Supper. First of all, the amount is so small. But secondly,

I personally believe that the state of mind and the knowledge of why you are drinking this wine in such a small amount has a lot to do with why it doesn't trigger me.

When I drank previously, my intention was to deliberately get intoxicated.

I have heard from one person who said that he drank the

Lord's Supper wine at a church service that he didn't know was fermented wine, and he immediately after the service went to a bar and got drunk.

Now, assuming that's true, and I know this may offend a lot of people, but I believe that there is something spiritually and seriously wrong with someone if that small amount of wine once a week triggers you to do that.

And to give you an example, if a

Christian has had a history of fornication and adultery before they were saved and they can't even be in the same room with a woman, especially a pretty woman, or they'll be driven immediately to commit those damnable sins again, that shows you that there's something wrong with the person's spiritual state.

It's not being in the presence of a woman. It's the fact that there is something he has not had victory over or fully repented of in his life.

Am I making sense with that? Yeah, you're absolutely right. And you touch on a very important point related to this whole discussion.

There are a number of reasons why this is kind of a difficult discussion to have with people, because we always carry our presuppositions into these kinds of conversations.

And the example you gave is perfect, because it shows how today many modern people tend to look for the problem outside of ourselves, right?

It's the substance of the thing, that the problem of murder and gun violence is guns.

You know, it's not the person behind the gun pulling the trigger. It's the gun is the problem. The same principle is applied often to alcohol, although the problem is the alcohol.

And you used a very biblical term, drunkard. Again, it's not a nice term. I mean, surely none of us ought to be drunkards, but that is a biblical term.

But it's not the term that's often used today. What's the term that's used today? I'm an alcoholic. I've got a disease.

I'm a victim. And the problem is the alcohol. That's not the way that Scripture evaluates the problem.

It's turned from an issue of sin to a clinical issue. Yes. And yeah,

I do not believe that drunkenness, habitual drunkenness or addiction is a disease, although it creates diseases when you habitually drink.

Your body certainly becomes dependent on drugs and alcohol when you become addicted to them.

And under certain levels of addiction to even alcohol, people have to be medically supervised when they quit because of the withdrawals.

Could, in extreme cases, kill people. But that's not because of a disease they had before they became habitual drunkards.

And I purposely didn't call myself an alcoholic. I brought the word up in the beginning of the program, but alcoholic has that clinical, sanitized word applied to a sin, which is actually a damnable sin.

Yeah. And it's interesting, in line with what you're saying and what we've been discussing, you know, this happened in the church.

In Corinth, in 1 Corinthians, Paul addresses the fact that some people are getting drunk using the

Lord's Supper. Well, you know, if you were the pastor or if you were Paul, what would you do?

OK, they're getting drunk with the supper. What does Paul do? Does Paul tell them, well, OK, don't use wine anymore, use water, you know, find something to dye the water red and just use that instead of wine?

Or maybe Paul might have said, well, I know the Lord Jesus instituted it with wine, but maybe this would be wiser for your church.

Well, no, he doesn't. He rebukes them. Then he reminds them of how the

Lord instituted it with bread and wine and what it symbolizes, his body and his bloodshed for them.

And then he tells them to examine themselves and to discern the body and not to drink judgment on themselves.

And so I think that is very pertinent to our conversation. The answer is not to remove the wine from the supper.

The answer is for those who are observing their supper to repent of sin, if they have sin, that they're bringing with them.

And just to finalize, wrap up this aspect of the discussion that involves me personally,

I do not and never will identify myself as a present -day alcoholic, as they are told to do in the 12 -step programs.

I am an alcoholic. It'll say they will always be an alcoholic.

And if you substitute the word drunkard, obviously that immediately reveals that, well, this can't be if I'm not continually getting drunk.

Why would I call myself a drunkard? That's why I say a former drunkard when

I explain my former sin that I was involved in before coming to repentance over it.

And by the way, I want to just give a plug for an interview that I did with an

Orthodox Presbyterian pastor who's a friend of mine, Jeffrey Wallace, and he did an interview with me, quite fascinating interview, on the cult of AA.

Let's see, it was conducted on February 6, 2025. Jason Wallace of Christ Presbyterian Church of Magna, Utah, did a lot of research and created actually a documentary video on the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous.

And it is indeed a cult, regardless of what anybody else has to say about it.

If you have a view of God that you teach to people, that is wrong and heretical and damnable.

And if you teach that people who are so -called alcoholics need this organization in order to remain sober, and they need to frequently attend their meetings, and on and on I could go about why this is a cult, it must be recognized as a cult.

But if anybody wants to listen to that, just type into the search engine

Alcoholics Anonymous at irontreppanzironradio .com and you will see that MP3, that audio link for that discussion.

But as far as the further evidence that you began to discover as you began digging deeper and deeper on why fermented wine is a much more biblically appropriate element to use in the

Lord's Supper rather than grape juice, tell us some more about those things. Yeah.

And this, in many ways, is the start of sort of our positive case for how do we end up with wine on the

Lord's table. And before we ever find wine on the

Lord's table, we find wine being used as a good gift in God's creation. So throughout

Scripture, we see wine portrayed as something that's positive, something that's a gift, something that is to be used to God's glory.

Now, first, I guess a word about how wine is made, because unless you've made it yourself, most of us probably are a little unfamiliar with this, but I think it will be helpful for understanding the conversation.

Wine is typically made from grapes. Grapes grow in many parts of the world.

The climate and terrain of Israel is particularly well suited for vineyards and olive groves and such.

And so as a result, wine was a common and ordinary part of daily life for the Israelites and many other cultures, of course.

People drank ordinarily with their meals, and then they drank very, very good wine when they were celebrating.

But in order to make wine, grapes are taken and then crushed. And the naturally occurring yeast on their skins then consumes the sugars in the juice.

And so when the yeast starts eating the sugars, it begins this process of fermentation.

And this happens almost immediately, really. And it can take about two or three weeks for the full process to complete.

Fermentation, so the yeast eating the sugar, produces two things, carbon dioxide, basically the bubbles escaping, and then the alcohol or ethanol, which remains.

So it's important to understand that the grapes and wine are not the same thing. After this process of fermentation occurs, something new has come into existence.

Wine then is not simply grapes in another form. Wine is something we might say qualitatively and substantively different from grapes.

Certainly grapes are the main product that go into making wine, but grapes are not wine.

And to put it another way, grapes are to wine what oats are to beer.

They're a necessary ingredient, but they're different things. For example, you might imagine someone going to a restaurant and maybe they want to have a beer with their meal, and so they ask for a beer.

And then the waiter comes back with a fistful of oats in his hand and drops it down on his lap. There you are, sir.

There's your unfermented beer. Well, no, they'd be disappointed and they'd ask for something else.

Well, if the waiter returned again, this time not with oats, but with oatmeal, would that satisfy the request?

Of course not. Oats are not beer, just as grapes are not wine. And why is this important to understand?

Well, because Christ instituted the supper, not with a generic reddish liquid that we can substitute for any other generic reddish liquid, nor did he institute the supper with a cluster of grapes.

Grapes are not the element of the supper, rather wine. Wine is the element of the supper.

That's important to understand. Now, before we go too much further, it's important to recognize something.

Like with many ethical and doctrinal issues, sometimes our instincts about wine may be shaped more by our experience and our upbringing than by scripture.

As you mentioned, Chris, we all have had different experiences with alcohol. Now, some of us may have grown up in homes where parents modeled faithfulness and moderation and self -control when it came to alcohol.

They didn't abuse it or anything. But others of us may have been raised in environments where it was abused, and dad got very angry or mom got very angry, and it was seen as a terrible thing.

Others of us may have grown up in homes where it wasn't used or abused. It was just treated as something that was forbidden.

And so it's important that we recognize our personal experiences, but then always come to scripture with an open mind, always come to scripture with the intention that we will have our minds conform to it rather than conform it to our thoughts and our experiences.

And we have to go to our first commercial break if anybody has a question for Pastor Simon O'Maney on the use of fermented wine in the

Lord's Supper. And we will eventually also be getting into why we celebrate the

Lord's Supper every Sunday. If you have a question about those issues, submit them to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal private matter.

Let's say you are in a church that is using grape juice and you're uncomfortable with that.

You have been convinced that the Lord's Supper should involve fermented wine, or perhaps you are somebody that has struggled with drunkenness and you don't want to identify yourself at this point and you want to remain anonymous.

Well, I will obviously honor your request to remain anonymous. And in cases like that, you don't even have to put your name in the email at all.

But if you are asking a general question, please just give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

Don't go away. We're going to be right back right after these messages from our sponsors. I'm Simon O'Maney, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's Word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune

God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ.

In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every

Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.

That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.

Hello, this is Brian Nye, president of Hearts for the Lost Ministry. Our sole mission is to serve the local church and work directly with and alongside pastors and elders with their efforts to equip, excite, and educate their flock in biblical evangelism.

We also provide practical experience opportunities in sharing the gospel directly within your immediate community.

We accomplish this mission with training and Christ -centered outreach events designed to equip the church and proclaim the good news of the gospel.

Our services are always 100 % free. If you're looking to equip and mobilize your church for faithful gospel witness, please partner with us.

Hearts for the Lost Ministry, serving the church, proclaiming the gospel. Contact us today at heartsforthelost .com.

That's heartsforthelost .com. Now, have a heart and go share your faith. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the

Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the holy scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmonton Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of East Fort Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens Jr. of the

Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the

Theology and Ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr.

Joseph Moorcraft. It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Moorcraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Moorcraft and the

Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you.

Let's continue to pray for the physical recovery of my dear friend

Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, who is still in a physical rehab facility in Cumming, Georgia, after a fall in his home over a month ago, which initially had him hospitalized, and now he's recovering in a physical rehab unit.

He is still there, but his wife Becky continues to update me every week with encouraging praise reports that he is gradually getting better.

But he is still, nonetheless, in that physical rehab unit, so please pray that he can return home soon, that he can return to his pulpit soon, and that he can even return to Iron Trip and Zion Radio as a guest soon.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, is one of our largest financial supporters, and I always love interviewing

Dr. Moorcraft, as I know that a growing number of my listeners do as well.

So please keep him in your prayers. When we're not back with my pastor,

Simon O'Maney of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, we are discussing why we use fermented wine in the

Lord's Supper and why we celebrate it every Sunday. If you have a question, submit it to chrislarnson at gmail .com

and give us your first name at least, city and state, country of residence, only remain anonymous if your question is about a personal or private matter.

So if you could, Simon, continue on in your journey of becoming more and more convicted of the use of fermented wine in the

Lord's Supper. Yeah, so continuing to think about what

Scripture teaches, Scripture presents wine as something that is a common and good gift to be enjoyed by His creatures within clear boundaries.

For example, we might consider Psalm 104, a psalm that celebrates

God's care of His creation. It says in verse 14 and 15, you cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread to strengthen man's heart.

So we notice the pattern there. God feeds the animals with grass and they're sustained.

He gives man bread and his strength is renewed. But it's interesting that God does more than merely keep us alive with bread.

The psalmist also says that he gives wine to gladden the heart of man. So God does more than simply give us our bare caloric intake.

He also gives us this gift of wine to sweeten life and to gladden the heart.

In a world marked by toil and sweat, where man is to eat bread by the sweat of his brow, we see

God giving a gift that goes beyond even mere survival.

Another passage that speaks positively of wine as a gift is Ecclesiastes chapter 9, verse 7.

Go eat your bread with joy and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.

Let your garments always be white. Let not oil the lacking on your head. Enjoy life with the wife with whom you love.

Here again, we have a tremendously positive affirmation of wine. God does not merely permit the enjoyment of bread and wine, but here he encourages it.

In the context of this section of Ecclesiastes 9, verse 7, we're called to work hard, earn our living, or to provide for ourselves and our family.

And then after we work hard, we can enjoy the fruits of our labor. You know, after you've been out working all day, you can come home and enjoy your family.

That's kind of the idea. And even to enjoy wine with a merry heart, enjoying life with the wife whom you love, he says.

So whether someone chooses to drink alcohol or not privately, it is an issue of Christian liberty.

But it's important to note that nowhere does scripture teach abstinence from wine as a mark of greater piety, or even that the mark of being a

Christian. In fact, the opposite is true. So while scripture speaks of wine as a gift from God, like any gift, it can be abused.

And the Bible warns us repeatedly against the use of wine through drunkenness. Proverbs 20, verse 1 warns, wine is a mocker and strong drink, a brawler and anyone and whoever is led astray by it is not wine.

So that there is a real danger that one is when one is led astray by wine. But notice the condemnation is not on anyone who drinks wine.

Anyone who drinks wine is not wise. That's not what it says. It says specifically on the person who is led astray by it.

And this pattern of abusing good things is not unique to wine, of course.

Many good things can be abused. Money can be abused. Proverbs has many warnings about money.

Sex can be abused. But again, we don't reject God's good design for marriage. Knowledge can be abused, but we don't despise wisdom and learning.

The many warnings against prosperity and wealth don't lead us to live the life of an ascetic, discarding all of our worldly items.

No, the abuse of a thing does not nullify its proper use. And therefore, like in all areas of life, we must be careful and wise and discerning when it comes to wine so that we're not led astray.

Proverbs 23, verses 20 to 21, this kind of echoes back to our conversation about the drunkard.

Well, here the drunkard and the glutton are linked with poverty.

Verse 20, be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty and slumber, will clothe them with rags.

So when Scripture presents the idea of the drunkard and warns against drunkenness, it's not so much the person who has maybe half a glass of wine beyond what they should have.

Now, that shouldn't be either. We should always have moderation if we choose to drink alcohol.

But when Scripture presents that the drunkard, it's not someone like that. It's really the lifestyle of habitual drunkenness.

And Scripture warns that this will lead to ruin and poverty. We find similar warnings against drunkenness in the

New Testament. Paul warns, do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery. So we must be clear that drunkenness, not the enjoyment of alcohol, not the moderate use of it, that's encouraged.

But drunkenness itself is a serious sin. So much so that in 1

Corinthians 6, verse 10, Paul warns that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So taking all of this together, then we see that on the one hand, wine is a blessing that can be used to God's glory.

But on the other hand, drunkenness, the abuse of that good thing is a curse. And so the problem is not wine itself or even the effects of wine, but the problem is being mastered by those effects.

It's giving oneself over to those things. Great. And we do have a listener in Croydon, Pennsylvania, not familiar with that town.

We have Billy in Croydon, Pennsylvania, who says,

Please forgive me if you've already addressed this, but how do you, as a

Christian who believes in the liberty to drink alcohol moderately, obey the texts in Romans 14, 13 through 23 about not causing another brother to stumble?

Yeah, that's a really good question. And that's another text, Romans 14, that often comes up in this discussion.

For a more thorough response, I would encourage you to find John Murray's article where he deals specifically with this text, and he goes into great detail explaining a true and biblical understanding of this text.

And so reading that, you will get a far better answer than what I'm able to give maybe just in a short snippet in answering this.

So that's what I would encourage. But the way that that text is often used, it's often used to argue that someone who maybe doesn't like that you drink alcohol as a

Christian, that you'll offend them, and so you shouldn't drink wine because someone somewhere could be offended or something like that.

Well, that's not the sense that Paul means when he uses the word stumble. Stumble there has the sense of really falling away from the faith.

And it's interesting that it's not just drink what he says in verse 21.

It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. And so we must include meat or any other thing within that context.

Again, this is typically, unfortunately, often only applied to alcohol, but it goes and applies to anything that could cause someone to stumble.

But again, what is stumbling? It's causing someone to walk away from the faith, essentially. Now, if someone's conscience is telling them that it is a sin to eat meat or to drink alcohol or to wear certain clothing or something like that, you know, the answer is, well, don't lead them into stumbling.

Don't kind of write roughshod over their conscience. Be patient with them.

Be careful with them. But the goal ought always to be to lead someone's conscience to the truth.

Because although we have a conscience from God, that's a gift from him to us. We need to have our consciences attuned to the truth and by the truth.

And so practically speaking, for someone who drinks alcohol, if they're with someone who believes that it's a sin to drink alcohol and there's a danger that they'll stumble,

I think the very simple and obvious application is, you know, don't invite them to the pub when you're going there, to put it very, very simply.

Now, what is your reaction to some of our, especially

Reformed Brethren? I have, on a couple of occasions, rebuked some of our

Reformed Brethren that really go overboard, in my opinion, flaunting their liberty to drink alcohol.

And I think that there can be an abuse of that liberty, not by getting drunk necessarily, but by the way one flaunts it publicly without any consideration of making a brother stumble.

Especially when you're doing something like on Facebook that may have thousands of people looking at it.

Isn't that a problem? I mean, I find it to be a problem because there are

Reformed Brethren that seem to talk about, at least publicly, just as much about their liberties to drink alcohol and smoke cigars as they do about the

Lord's theology and the Word of God. And it seems as if they're almost trying to parade those things as a rite of passage into the

Reformed faith, as if they are the sixth and seventh points of Calvinism, drinking alcohol and smoking cigars.

But what do you have to say about that? I think, you know, Paul says, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it to the abstain from meat or cigars or whiskey or whatever the case may be, or whether one chooses to partake, one must always do so with the glory of God as one's focus.

And so anything not done to the glory of God is, of course, dishonorable and sin.

And so, simply put, I would encourage those brothers to eat and drink to the glory of God.

Just to give you an example of the dismissal of handling the subject with care,

I can even remember years ago when I was having my pastor's luncheons on Long Island before I moved to Pennsylvania, I happened to overhear a couple of Reformed pastors at their table making light and even thinking it very humorous how intoxicated one of them got the night before.

The fact that we have a liberty does not mean we should be very flippant and boisterous about it, and even ignore the fact that excessive use of it is, in fact, considered damnable.

I think that there can be a flippancy about it. What's your reaction to that?

Yeah, again, you know, the biblical position is moderation. Both sides, both excess and abstinence to the point of denying and judging others, both of those things are very strongly rebuked in scripture.

On the one hand, as I quoted a minute ago, the drunkard will not inherit the kingdom of God. And so it's certainly nothing to be flippant or joking about, as you said.

And then on the opposite end, Paul is clear in Colossians and writing to Timothy, let no one pass judgment on you in eating, in questions of food and drink regarding festivals, new moon sabbats.

The asceticism that tends to drive a lot of people on the other end of the spectrum,

Paul also ties to the doctrine of demons. And so certainly we want to avoid both of those kinds of things.

But yeah, I mean, I've never, I know a lot of pastors, I've never had a pastor boast about that sort of thing to me.

I think if a friend or someone, if someone in my company did, I think I would want to talk to them about that and address that with them.

I would be concerned about that too. We have Sheldon in Albany, New York, who says, are you aware of any theologically reformed pastors or congregations, perhaps even denominations that believe in total abstinence from alcohol?

The only person that I could think of is the, and I know that there's more than that, but the pastor of the

Metropolitan Tabernacle where Charles Spurgeon once preached in London, England, the current pastor there has even written a book against the use of any kind of alcohol.

But other than that, I can't. Oh, well, I know that the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America used to have a total abstinence clause.

I don't know if they still do. And I believe that the Bible Presbyterian Church at least at one time did.

I don't know if they still carry that. Yeah.

I don't know any others other than what you mentioned, Chris. Okay. Thanks, brother.

Let's see here. Before we go to a break, we'll have one more question.

We have Amethyst in Jupiter, Florida, and Amethyst says, would you consider it a sin for someone who teaches that total abstinence is necessary for godliness?

Yeah. With a question like that, again,

I think it's not so much what I think, but what does Scripture teach? And Scripture is very, especially the

New Testament, is very clear in its warnings against those who would teach total abstinence as a mark of godliness.

Again, read the book of Colossians. Paul talks about those who have all these regulations, do not touch, do not taste, do not handle.

And he has very, very sharp condemnations for those. But even honestly, the place my mind would go to first, and I think the strongest argument, where it starts and stops here, is

Jesus. Who was the most law -keeping man alive?

Who was closer to the Father than anyone who has ever learned? Who was more filled with the

Spirit than he was? And yet Jesus drank wine. He even turned water into wine.

And so for someone to say that complete abstinence is a mark of holiness, they would have to really wrestle with the fact that Jesus did not abstain from wine.

He drank wine so frequently that he was actually accused of being a drunkard.

And of course, obviously, he was not a drunkard, but he did drink wine and he instituted the supper with wine.

And so if someone is going to take the position that they must abstain from all wine in order to be holy, essentially they're putting themselves in a position where they think they're going to be more holy than Jesus, which is not a safe place to be.

And of course, judging from what you've already said, you differentiate that kind of Pharisaic attitude from the person who chooses not to partake in alcohol, somebody like me, partake of it socially.

And it's only because of my past of having been in such a state of serious and grievous disobedience against the warning and condemnation of drunkenness,

I just never wanted to put myself in that place again of reaching that point of wickedness.

And also, I never want anybody who knows of my past to see me sitting, drinking a glass of wine or a snifter of brandy or a beer to immediately think the worst of me.

Oh, there he goes. He's back slidding again. So you're differentiating between the

Pharisaic pastor or even just a run -of -the -mill

Pharisaic Christian who is heaping guilt upon brethren who are rightfully enjoying a liberty.

Yeah, that's right, Chris. That's a very helpful clarification to what we are and what we're not seeing in this discussion.

But unfortunately, what many of us maybe grew up in evangelicalism is the sort of kind of pietistic idea that this is a mark of holiness and whatnot, rather than the position of someone who's maybe abused alcohol at some point and is making a wise decision not to partake of it going forward.

Yeah, that's very helpful. Well, we're going to our midway break right now. And when we come back, we will take some more listener questions.

And we also want to switch gears to why we celebrate the

Lord's Supper every Sunday. That seems to be a rarity amongst evangelicals, although it seems to be just as using fermented wine has grown in its popularity, especially amongst

Reformed Christians. The frequency of the

Lord's Supper being celebrated every week seems to be growing in popularity amongst the

Reformed as well. But if you have a question, our email address is chrisarenson at gmail .com.

chrisarenson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away. We're going to be right back.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show.

He really loves hearing interviewed. Dr. Joe Morecraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

Dr. Joe Morecraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Morecraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards. And Dr.

Joe Morecraft is the author of an eight volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers.

Scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the

Triune God that continues in eternity. For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com or call 678 -954 -7831.

That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, have them

Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, and a toy in County Kildare, Arlington, Sanchi.

I'm Brian McLaughlin, president of the

SecureComm Group and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.

The SecureComm Group provides the highest level of security, close circuit television, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.

We custom install exactly what you need to protect yourself, including digital recording, offsite viewing, and connectivity from most smart devices.

From simple code activated systems to the latest technology using facial recognition, the

SecureComm Group has it. We also provide the latest in intercom and IP telephone systems.

In addition, we provide superior networking platforms. We'll create, maintain, and secure your local network, whether it's a

Wi -Fi or hardwire network. We'll implement the latest secured firewall, endpoint solutions, and cloud backup.

I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners and their associates.

For more details on how the SecureComm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.

That's 718 -353 -3355. Or visit

SecureCommGroup .com. That's SecureCommGroup .com.

This is Brian McLaughlin of the SecureComm Group, joining Chris Arnzen's family of advertisers to keep

Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air. Iron Sharpens Iron radio first launched in 2005.

The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

Iron Sharpens Iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

NASB. I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White of the

First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Anthony Mathenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my

Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmerville, Long Island, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in Southlake, Texas, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

Hello, my name is Anthony Eugenio and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the search bar. You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.

Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time, day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com

podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We're dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a

Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith, as well as seasoned believers. From Keech's Catechism and the

Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie Podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.

And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, New York.

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening. Hi, this is

John Samson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

Chris up for just such a time. Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, praise

God for the generous monthly financial support of Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the

American Gem Society, Jewelers of America, and the Gemological Institute of America.

For the perfect custom -designed engagement ring or any one -of -a -kind piece of jewelry created exactly according to your imagination and specifications,

Royal Diadem Jewelers has you covered. No matter where you live in the world, Royal Diadem will walk you step by step through every stage of the process and even hold a high -tech internet virtual visit using state -of -the -art jewelry design technology to serve you.

They start by listening carefully to determine your needs. They're interested in making what you want, not what they want to sell you.

From rough design to digital model, to photo -realistic image, to wax prototype model, to the finished product, they're continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes, making any changes necessary along the way.

This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed and well beyond your expectations.

Visit royaldiadem .com, that's royaldiadem .com today.

Sterling Vandewerker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife Bronnie, his business partner and manager

Brian Wilson, and the entire family thank you all for listening to, praying for, and supporting the work of Iron Shoppin's Iron Radio.

Royal Diadem .com

loves Iron Shoppin's Iron Radio so much that not only do they provide financial support for Iron Shoppin's Iron Radio every single month automatically, but on top of that, royaldiadem .com

gives Iron Shoppin's Iron Radio 100 % of the profits from any sale of jewelry to an

Iron Shoppin's Iron Radio listener as long as that listener mentions Iron Shoppin's Iron Radio when they purchase their jewelry at royaldiadem .com.

So whether you're purchasing jewelry they already have in stock at royaldiadem .com, or if you are having a one -of -a -kind customized piece of jewelry created, like taking your church logo, your parachurch ministry logo, your seminary logo, your denomination logo, your business logo, and turning it into a pendant for a necklace or a ring, or anything else your creativity and imagination can conjure up in your brain, they will take what's in your brain and turn it into a magnificent physical piece of head -turning, stunning, breathtaking jewelry.

And I have seen firsthand the mastery of their ability to customize jewelry.

And so either way, whether you're buying something that they already have in stock or having something customized, buying something for yourself or someone you love, please go to royaldiadem .com,

mention Iron Shoppin's Iron Radio so we will get 100 % of the profits from that sale.

That's royaldiadem .com. Before I return to Simon O'Minney, my pastor at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and our discussion on why we use fermented wine in the

Lord's Supper and why we celebrate it every Sunday, before I return to that conversation, I have some important reminders.

Folks, we are in urgent need of your financial help here at Iron Shoppin's Iron Radio, especially since we lost one of our largest advertisers, a

Christian book distributor that had been providing the finest in Reformed literature at the most reasonable prices globally for over 50 years.

And sadly, they had to permanently close their doors and go out of business several months ago, and therefore we lost a very large client.

So please, folks, help us replace and replenish that lost income. If you really love the show and don't want it to go off the air, go to ironshoppinsironradio .com,

click support, then click click to donate now, and you can donate instantly with a debit or credit card.

If you prefer snail mail, as some folks still do, where you go to your local post office and mail a physical check to a physical address, there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen when you click support at ironshoppinsironradio .com,

where you can mail your checks, made payable through Iron Shoppin's Iron Radio. If you want to advertise with us, whether it's a church, a parachurch ministry, a business, a private practice, like a law firm, a medical firm, or maybe it's just a special event that you want to promote, as long as it's compatible with my beliefs,

I would love to help you launch an ad campaign, because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.

So please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

Now, with all this urgent talk of mine for my need for your financial help,

I never want anybody to ever give your own church, where you're a member, less money than you normally give your church on the

Lord's Day, in order to bless Iron Shoppin's Iron Radio. Please never do that. In other words, never cut in to the financial resources that you specifically set aside for your

Lord's Day giving to your own church in order to bless us. Leave that money alone and use it to bless your church.

And also, if you are really struggling personally to survive and make ends meet, wait until you're back on your feet and more financially stable before you bless us with a gift.

But, having said that, if you love the show, don't want to go off the air, and you are blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family, and you have extra money for benevolent, recreational, and trivial purposes, well, please share some of that money with us if you love the show.

Go to ironshoppinsironradio .com, click support, then click to donate now.

And last but not least, if you're not a member of a biblically faithful, Christ -honoring, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, I have helped many people spanning the entire globe in my audience find biblically faithful churches, sometimes even just a couple of minutes from where they live, as I did for a listener trying to find a confessional

Reformed Baptist Church in the specific city in Mexico where his family lives, and I was able to find such a church for them.

So that may be you, too, no matter where you live in the world. If you're without a biblically faithful church home, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Simon O'Maney, my pastor at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church, on the issues of the use of fermented wine in the

Lord's Supper and observing it or celebrating it every Sunday. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Now, Simon, it's up to you.

I don't know if you've adequately in your mind addressed everything that you wanted to about the use of fermented wine.

So before we transfer over to the weekly observance of the Lord's Supper, just let me know if you want to say anything else about fermented wine.

Thanks, Chris. Yeah, I'll jump in to say a little bit more about that, if that's okay then. So we've thought so far about wine used in common creation, the way that the

Bible talks about just the common use of wine. It's just part of life, and it was part of life in the ancient world.

But what's also interesting is how it was also expected by God in the religious life of the

Israelites. Well, this goes pre -Israel, but in Genesis chapter 14, one of the earliest appearances of wine, not the earliest, but one of the earliest, we see after Abram's victory over the enemy kings, we're told of this figure,

Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought out bread and wine, and he blessed him.

So here we have this priestly figure that the author of Hebrews tells us prefigures

Christ, and he blesses Abraham with bread and wine. So even at this very early moment in the history of redemption, bread and wine is a symbol of God's blessing of his presence and of his fellowship.

This theme continues throughout the law. In Numbers 18, the Lord gives the

Levites and the priests the best portion of Israel's produce, including the best of the wine.

Verse 12, all the best of the oil and all the best of the wine and of the grain, the first fruits of what they give to the

Lord, I give to you. So God is going to especially bless his

Levites with the best of the wine. So again, wine is a picture of God's blessing.

We see that as well repeated in Deuteronomy, how the old covenant is made with these promises of flowing grain and oil and wine.

What's also interesting is how wine also plays a significant role in Israel's worship.

So God not only permits wine to be used by the people, but he actually commands its use.

In Exodus 29 and Leviticus 23 and Numbers 15, we read about wine being used for drink offerings.

So this is alcohol. God is expecting his people to either make alcohol themselves or to buy it from someone who does in the land and then present it to him as an offering.

So we see both bread and wine having very rich significance in the history of God's dealings with his people.

And what's interesting is how the prophets also speak of food and bread and wine.

So they looked forward to the glory that was to come, the new heavens and the new earth, through this language of feasting.

For example, Isaiah chapter 25 pictures the new covenant and the life to come as a feast of rich food and of well -aged wine.

Likewise, Isaiah 55 invites us to come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters.

He who has no money, come and buy and eat. Come buy wine and milk without money and without price.

So the imagery of wine is used to portray the abundance and the joy of the new creation and the world to come in a way that shows us that wine, while it was to be used within boundaries, was a picture of joy, to be joyfully used.

But I'll pause there. I'd like to return maybe to say something about the new covenant and then verify the

Lord's Supper. Is there any comments or questions on this point?

Well, there is a listener, Gray, and I'm not sure if this is properly pronounced

El Mirage or, since it seems to be a Spanish name, El Mirage.

But in El Mirage or Mirage, Arizona, Gray says,

What do you say to the argument by some who believe in total abstinence that Jesus never would have turned the water into fermented wine at the wedding feast of Cana because of the massive volume of alcohol that would be present encouraging drunkenness?

I've heard that too. I can remember hearing it from a Church of Christ minister.

I think he even wrote a booklet against drinking alcohol, and he brought that up.

And by the way, they don't all agree on total abstinence. Someone I just had involved in a debate on my show,

Jack Wilkie, who debated a Reformed Baptist, Jeremiah Nortier, on his baptism necessary for salvation.

He does not believe in total abstinence and believes in moderate social drinking as being permissible.

But anyway, going to what Gray brought up, how would you respond to that? Yeah, I've never heard that before, and I don't know how you could possibly come to that interpretation after actually reading

Scripture. You know, again, our consciences and our beliefs, even if there are things that we don't like how it sounds initially, we must always bring ourselves under Scripture.

Scripture is the final authority. What it says is the final answer.

And when you look at John chapter 2, the turning of water into wine, it's very clear that the master of the feast drinks, and he says, everyone serves the good wine first.

And when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now. He can tell that this

Jesus didn't just make wine, he made the best of wine. He made the best wine that probably anyone's ever tasted.

It's very clear. And that's what's also—and this segues into maybe just continuing on to my next point—we need to read

Scripture as a whole. We don't just read John 2 by itself, although I think

John 2 by itself is very clear. He turned the water into wine. That's what it says. But we read it in terms of the whole scope of Scripture, much of what

I've already covered. So the way that the Old Testament is speaking of this age to come, and it's going to be an age that's marked by wine, not necessarily literally or physically, but in terms of the joy of the wine, of the new creation and the new covenant to come.

And so the significance of Jesus turning the water into wine here is he's showing that I'm the one bringing about the promises of Isaiah chapter 25, of Isaiah chapter 55.

This is the flowing wine that you've been waiting for. And so again, to say that it wasn't wine or something like that, it doesn't do justice to John 2.

It doesn't do justice to the rest of Scripture. Well, Jesus came drinking wine.

John chapter 7, I quoted earlier, he's slandered as a glutton and a drunkard.

He wasn't either of those things, but he did enjoy nice food. He went to a lot of parties. Throughout Luke's gospel, we find

Jesus at a table. He's eating. He eats with the Pharisees. He eats with sinners. Some people don't like that, but that's what he did.

People didn't like it then, and some people don't like it now, but that's what he did. He ate and he drank with sinners and tax collectors.

And yet, we must say, without excess and without sin. But all of this then reaches its climax on the night when our

Lord instituted the Lord's Supper. And he did it following on the tales of the last

Passover meal. So they gathered together on the Thursday night to observe the Passover.

And then it transitioned from the last Passover really to the first supper.

And during the Passover, wine would have been present. Traditionally, there would have been four cups, which would have been drunk by the host in remembrance of God's deliverance of the

Exodus. Well, then Jesus takes the cup and says, this cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

So this cup of wine now signifies that the blood of the new covenant poured out for the forgiveness of sin.

And so our Lord has established this clear pattern of the elements of bread and wine being used in the supper.

And therefore, just to fill out and to close out the argument in the presentation, to substitute wine with anything else is to depart from Christ's own instructions and his institution.

When wine is removed, we lose not only an element of the supper, but also the depth of meaning that is signified by that element.

You know, we might assume that Jesus chose wine simply because wine is red and blood is red.

But of course, as you know, not all wine is red. Some is white. Many faithful churches observe the supper using white wine, for example.

And so the significance of wine isn't nearly in the color. Rather, it's a meaning that runs a lot deeper.

It lies in what wine is and how wine comes to be. Because again, remember how wine is made.

Grapes are gathered and then crushed, and their juice then passes through fermentation, this process of transformation, and then something entirely new comes into existence.

Wine is not simply grapes in another form. Think of a potato. You take a potato and you mash it.

You can boil it. You can fry it. You can bake it. It's some potato in all form. Some might taste better than others.

But wine is not just another form of grapes. Rather, it's something entirely new.

Through the crushing and transformation, what was once fruit emerges as a drink of gladness and celebration.

And isn't that a picture of Christ? Just as grapes are crushed, so Christ, the true vine, was crushed upon the cross for us.

Isaiah writes of how he was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. Upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.

So just as grapes must be frothed in the winepress, yield their sweetness, so Christ endured the winepress of divine judgment, that from his agony might flow new life for us.

And so this is the significance then of wine in the supper. This picture of grapes being crushed and then from this flows life.

And the same is true for us. The Apostle John tells us that when

Christ's side was pierced by the fear of the Roman soldier, blood and water flowed out. The death of Christ was real.

It was violent. He truly died. The blood that flowed from his body was a sign of death.

And yet that blood that is a sign of death and crushing is to us a sign of life. John Chrysostom, the ancient church father reflecting on this scene, recognized how the blood from his side corresponds to the wine of the supper.

He says, not without purpose or by chance did those fountains spring forth.

Rather, it is because the church consists of these two together. When you approach that awesome

God, you do so as though you were drinking from his very side. For Christ, the cross was bitterness.

It was suffering. It was shame, agony, judgment. But for us, the cross is transformed just as fermentation transforms the crushed grapes into wine.

So the crushing of Christ releases his blood, which is in a sense transformed, and we receive it as the sweet wine of life and joy.

I made this point before in other contexts, but there's a sense in which the

Roman Catholics get it backwards. They have it the wrong way around. It's not that the wine transforms into blood.

Rather, it's that the blood is transformed into wine. Christ shed his blood, the blood of suffering.

But that same blood of suffering is to us joy. And that joy is pictured in how we have the cup of wine, what

Paul calls in 1 Corinthians, the cup of blessing. And that's how we can look upon the cross, something that was horrendous and painful and the crushing of the son.

And we can receive it as a good thing, and it's gladness and thanksgiving, because it has been transformed to us as a means of blessing and of joy.

And so this is the significance of the wine in the supper. Again, looking back at how it was given as a good gift of creation, it was incorporated into the religious life of Old Testament Israel to be a means, a picture of joy and fellowship and communion with God.

And now that has reached a full expression, as this cup of wine has become symbolic of our union with Christ and our fellowship with him and our ongoing communion with him as he is truly present with his church.

Amen. Let's see, we have Della in Searcy, Arkansas, and she has a question that involves the book of Proverbs.

I was just looking at it moments ago. Oh, here it is.

Della says, how do you respond to the teetotalers who will use the text in Proverbs 23 as a prohibition to drinking alcohol, where it says, do not look at wine when it's red, and the other things that seem to be warning against drinking?

That's verse 31. Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly.

In the end, it bites like a snake and stings like a viper. Yeah. Passages like that and passages like the ones that we looked at a little bit earlier are really warning against the enticement to sin, right, the enticement to excess.

Again, Proverbs 20 verse 1, wine is a mocker, strong drink, a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

It's warning against being led astray by those things. And to be clear, those are real warnings that we ought to consider, you know, and any believer or even an unbeliever, anyone who partakes of wine and does so needs to wrestle with just the reality that there is a danger of excess and there is a danger of abusing a good thing.

Now, again, that's not limited to the use of wine. That extends to the use of money, pleasure, watching

TV, going on the internet. Everything we do carries the same danger of excess. But those specific passages, like Proverbs, that are highly warning, well, those are designed to warn us against the abuse of the thing.

And again, a principle of interpretation is that we take it all together, you know.

For example, we don't just read Psalm 104 that speaks of the blessing of wine. Well, I guess

I can go off and drink however much I want. No, we read Psalm 104 with Proverbs 20 verse 1 and whatever reference that was earlier, so that we see, yes, this is a good gift that we can enjoy, but it must be enjoyed within clear boundaries, and we ought not to exceed those boundaries.

Yes, even in some sense, it is a proof of the liberty to drink fermented wine because in verse 20, we read, do not be with heavy drinkers of wine.

There is a reason, I think, that they include, or that God, I should say, includes the word heavy in the text because it's the difference between your parent, if you're a young person, before leaving the house saying, now, don't you touch a drop of alcohol, or saying, now, don't drink too much.

You know, there's a difference because when somebody is giving you a warning, don't drink too much, you obviously are giving the sense that you're being given permission to consume alcohol, just not too much.

Am I making sense? Yeah, and the context, if you go on to read it, your eyes will see strange things, your heart will utter perverse things, you'll be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea, like one who lies on the top of the mast.

So it's someone like staggering around as if they're on a ship going to and fro. They struck me, you'll say, but I was not hurt.

They beat me, I did not feel it. When shall I wake? I must have another drink. And so the picture is clearly is not of someone enjoying a glass of wine in moderation, or it's the picture of someone who is captivated and controlled in a very dangerous and sinful kind of way.

Somebody's hammered. I mean, he doesn't feel when he's being beaten.

And I can sadly report remembering that with me and a bouncer in a bar, beating me in the face and kicking me in the face when

I went down and not feeling anything. But now, let me ask you again, do you want to transfer our conversation over to the weekly observance?

In fact, we have to go to our last ad break before we do that. But we will be right back after these messages, folks, so don't go away.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus, the King, and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

that's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711, that's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, a

Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the great commission supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth.

We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.

At Lindbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired

Word of God, inherent in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.

We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.

Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

God's image. If you live near Lindbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the

Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit lindbrookbaptist .org,

that's l -y -n -brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast of the

Lord's blessing and the knowledge of himself. This is

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

This program is sponsored by Hope PR Ministry. Hope PR Ministry is a podcast produced by Hope Protestant Reformed Church in Walker, Michigan.

We are dedicated to sharing Reformed biblical content every Wednesday and Friday. Tune in for sermons, lectures, and interviews exploring distinctive

Reformed doctrines. If you are looking for Christ -centered content, simply search

Hope PR Ministry on your favorite podcast platform to begin listening today.

Hope PR Ministry also offers Morning Meditations, a daily podcast featuring

Reformed devotionals designed to nourish your soul. Start your day with these spiritually enriching messages by tuning in to Morning Meditations wherever you get your podcasts.

And don't forget, folks, that this program is also paid for in part by the law firm of Botafogo and Associates.

If you are ever the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the

United States, please call my longtime very dear friend and brother in Christ since 1991,

Daniel P. Botafogo, attorney at law at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit

Dan's website, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.

Please make sure you tell Daniel P. Botafogo, attorney at law, that you heard about his law firm, Botafogo and Associates, from Chris Aronson and Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Also, I just want to quickly remind all men in ministry leadership, you are invited to my next free biannual

Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheon on Thursday, October 1st, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania. It's absolutely free of charge.

Our keynote speaker is David A. Harrell, who is a pastor of Calvary Bible Church in Jolton, Tennessee, and the author of a number of books, including the book he will be highlighting in his keynote address,

Why America Hates Biblical Christianity. Not only is it free to get in and not only is your meal free, but every man who attends will receive one and possibly two heavy sacks of free, brand -new books personally selected by me and generously donated by Christian publishers all over the

United States and United Kingdom. And by the way, Pastor Simon, I know that you've been to a number of my pastors' luncheons.

Do you have anything to say about your time there when you attend those? Yeah, thanks,

Chris. Yeah, I'll say that they're always very encouraging. One of the things I love is how it draws a wide variety of brothers in ministry from so many different churches.

It's a wonderful time to fellowship together. It's a great, great venue.

And yeah, thanks for putting those on, Chris. Thank you. Well, actually, the thanks will go to not only

God, but my precious late wife, Julie, whose brainchild these pastors' luncheons are.

She began them with me in the 1990s while I was living on Long Island, and I continue conducting them in tribute to her and in loving memory of her.

But if you'd like to register for this free event, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put pastors' luncheon in the subject line. And we're now back to our conversation on the

Lord's Supper and how we celebrated a Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, seeking to be biblical in the way that we do all things.

And one of the things that we immediately began doing as soon as we constituted as a new church was to celebrate the

Lord's Table every Sunday, if you could explain why. Yeah.

Well, while there's no specific chapter and verse that tells us how frequently we should observe the

Supper, I think a strong case can be made for observing the Supper weekly. When you look at the disciples and the first things that they do, we read in Acts 242, and they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayers.

Now, I would argue that the breaking of bread there, in line with Luke chapter 24 and Luke chapter 22, refers to the

Lord's Supper. So they devoted themselves. That's quite strong language. It's not that once a year they decided that maybe they would take the

Lord's Supper, but no, they devoted themselves. This certainly indicates something very, very regular.

In Acts chapter 20, verse 7, Paul is in Troas, and he decides to wait until the coming

Lord's Day, the coming Sunday, specifically so that he can have the Lord's Supper with them.

We read, on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread.

So when did the church break bread? When did they have the Lord's Supper? Well, it was on the first day of the week.

It was on Sunday, the day that Christ rose, and it would indicate that it was very possible that they observed it every

Lord's Day. Or was it that Paul just happened to be in Troas the one Sunday of the month or the one

Sunday of the year that they were observing the Lord's Supper? No, probably more than likely, the believers in Troas were devoting themselves to the breaking of bread in the same way that the disciples did in Acts chapter 2.

Then thinking about the way the apostles speak of the Lord's Supper in 1

Corinthians, obviously, Paul deals with many issues surrounding the table. But one of the repeated phrases he uses is, when you come together.

Four or five times, Paul uses that phrase, when you come together, when you come together. Again, it would indicate that when they came together, they remembered

Christ through the Lord's Supper. It seems as though this were a very regular part of their church life, not something that was occasional.

And then aside from some of those specific biblical examples that seemed to indicate that it would have been partaken of regularly, when we think about what the supper is itself, in 1

Corinthians 10, Paul calls it a cup of blessing. When you, as a believer in faith, receive the

Lord's Supper, when you receive those elements, you're not just remembering Christ, you ought to at least be remembering

Christ, but you're actually receiving a cup of blessing. We call this the means of grace, that Christ has promised to bless these things as we partake of them.

The question really is, if we can take it every week, why wouldn't we take it every week, if this is a cup of blessing?

The other very important word that Paul uses is the Greek word, listeners have probably heard it before, koinonia.

So Paul speaks of the supper being several times, he says koinonia, which is sometimes translated as communion, fellowship, or participation.

So he, in contrast, he talks about the demons, and if you take part in pagan feasts, it's not just this kind of innocuous, innocent thing you're doing.

If you partake of pagan, idolatrous feasts, you're having communion with those demons that are present.

But then, by contrast, when you partake of this feast, the Feast of the Lord, you are having communion, not just with your brothers and sisters around the table, but with Christ, who himself is spiritually present, just as he promised to be present where two or three are gathered.

So Paul writes of the communion, the fellowship we have with the risen and ascended Lord Jesus Christ by the

Holy Spirit as we partake of the supper. Again, I would kind of ask simply, why would you not want to do this every week?

If this was the pattern on the Lord's day, they devoted themselves to this, why would we not want to avail of this as much as possible?

Yes, and as far as some of the critiques of this, or reasons for not doing this,

I never bought the reason, well, we shouldn't have it every

Sunday because that would make it less special. Now, wouldn't that imply that we shouldn't even gather as a church every

Sunday? In fact, I don't want to broad brush, but there are some primitive

Baptists that only meet once a month, and wouldn't that be better to make it a more special celebration?

So when we see our brothers and sisters at church, hey, how are you? It's been a month.

But no, it's ridiculous, isn't it? That's right.

Again, I think the operative word is devotion. How do we show that we're devoted to the

Lord's Supper? By taking it once a month, or by taking it every Lord's day, as it seems the

Apostle did. But yeah, that's a very good point, Chris. I mean, you could apply that argument to anything we do in the service.

Well, we should just pray once a month, or once a quarter. We should only hear sermons once a month, because then it'll be really meaningful when we do hear it.

Again, that fails to recognize the other aspect of the

Supper, and all the means of grace. We are weak, hungry, weary, tired pilgrims, and we need

Christ to meet us through his word and through these ordinances. So we need these things.

And Christ does, as he promised, he does meet us in these things, and he feeds us, and he restores us, and he speaks to us.

And we need that. I will say, just even anecdotally, the argument that if you do it weekly, it'll become kind of rote, and routine, and meaningless.

I will say anecdotally, I've seen the opposite. I've been a member of two churches that took it weekly.

One is the church that I'm a member of now. The previous was a church in California, Christ Reformed Baptist Church.

And I would say in both of those churches where we took it weekly, there was a seriousness when we did observe, and there was a joy.

And because we had it before us week after week, it was something we gave a lot of thought to, and we do give a lot of thought to.

In contrast, and again, anecdotally, I will say, I've been part of churches that have taken it less frequently.

And in my estimation, it was less meaningful in those settings than in the churches that partake of it weekly.

How would you respond to a pastor saying, as I've heard a pastor say, against the weekly celebration of the

Lord's Supper? Well, I wouldn't want to cut my sermon short every week, which

I would have to do to fit the entire worship service into our normal length.

Isn't there some uncomfortable level of pride there about the importance of the person's sermon, rather than the observance of the ordinance?

Yeah, certainly. I think your conscience is telling you that Scripture is requiring weekly observance, and that's your argument for not taking it weekly.

I think that's a very poor argument. I mean, yeah, maybe you need to shorten your sermon.

Or maybe, you know, if you've got five hymns or worship songs, maybe, you know, why doesn't anyone ever speak of cutting one of those out to allow for the supper?

Or just keep the service longer than you'd like. That's right. That's right.

I know that you have preached on this, and I know that our listeners can find all your sermons at trbccarlisle .org,

if you click on Listen. Do you remember the specific titles of the sermons that dealt with the

Lord's Supper? And if you don't, that's fine. Yeah, it was during the

Luke series. So it was in Luke chapter 22, when Christ was instituting the supper.

I took a number of weeks just to think about the elements. What's the significance of the bread? What's the significance of the wine?

How do we worthily partake? Thinking about the presence of Christ in the supper.

So if you go to Sermon Audio and you type in my name or the church's name and find the series in Luke, you'll find some of those there.

And you don't even have to go to Sermon Audio. You go to trbccarlisle .org and click Listen, and that will take you to Sermon Audio, so that will be easier for you to remember.

trbccarlisle .org. I want to thank you for being such a wonderful guest, as you always are, Pastor Simon, and I'm looking forward to seeing you again this

Lord's Day. I want everybody listening to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater