Dead Men Walking Podcast with Josh Stacey: Hebrews 6 and the Practical Christian Life

Opening Banter and Introductions

Very nice. What's up? So nice. What up, y 'all? Oh, what's up, Josh? How's it going, guys? Hey, we got Josh here in studio with us tonight. Josh Stacey in the house. Watch it. I can't wait. I can't flip back fast enough.

There it is. The applause. There it is. OK, we don't need that. Everyone's so sick of our fake applause, I think, Jason. What do you think?

Hey, I don't know, man. I think it's a really great part of the show. That's...

That's top of the show. Oh, yeah. So if you guys are listening, we have Josh Stacey in house tonight. We're going to... He's the director of His Purpose Ministries, a long-time buddy of ours. And we're going to be talking a little bit of Hebrews, a little bit of Jewish catechism, a little bit of...

He told us Paul wrote it. No, I'm joking. Yeah, that's what we're actually... All the time. All the time. Actually, we got him here... We start a fight right away. We just start a fight. We just got him here to debate who wrote Hebrews.

Actually, he said Apollos. No. I lean towards Paul. Where do you guys lean? We discussed this, right? I think we did a short on this. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? I would also lean to Paul. It mentions Timothy.

True. Timothy's mentioned in the book. But, I mean... And those guys were like best buds, like stepbrother style. Yeah. You know? Yeah. They were good. Paul said to Timothy, I think, did we just become best friends?

Yeah. Yeah. And they went and did karate in the garage. Exactly. Oh, man. So how you been, Jason?

Awesome. You been good? I was like, where is he? Which Jay is he going to say? Josh or Jay? Yeah. He used to call me Josh when we first started. He was like... The first three times? He couldn't remember my name for some reason.

We knew each other for 20 years.

I sent... He was like, Josh. I'm like... I sent you the meme that explained it. Yeah. I sent you the... Yeah. Did you remember that? It literally... It's... Okay. I almost called him Jason. Yeah. See?

Here we go. Gosh, you're confusing me. It's like, hey, my name's... And it said Jason in the thing, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it did. It said, hey, my name's Jason. I thought you switched it. And Jason goes into his head and it's got theological terms, doctrines, dates of creeds, right?

And then it just literally just goes right out. It's... But you can remember all that other stuff, but your name... Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm sorry. Only knowing you 20 years, man.

You remember the God stuff. That's important stuff. Indeed. You know? I want people to forget me anyway. I want them to remember Christ. Oh, man.

So in your face. Okay. Yeah, exactly. So it always gets a little rowdier when we have someone in the studio as well, because you can joke around a little bit more. And I think... Josh, you've been here...

Is this two? No, this is actually...

Three. Three, Pete. I'm the second three, Pete. I've been waiting. Second three, Pete. There we go. All right. Let's do it. This is the first time, though, that I've been here for it. Yes. Because before, I was working.

Yeah. You guys would meet up and then... Yeah. Yeah, I was always on my way home from work and it just didn't work out. But now I'm here. Look at that. One for three.

One for... That's good. Thanks for having me, guys. Man, if you're hitting one for... That'll be... You're winning the Triple Crown, baby. Hey, that's 333. 333. We'll take it. I'm down. Just went to a local Mud Hens game with the boys.

Those are so much fun. They're so fun. They really are. They're here in Toledo, Ohio. Yeah. It's a good little spot. Tickets are cheap. Nice park. You sit close no matter where you sit. Yeah. They've been doing great this year, too.

Yeah, they're on a... They beat a team 11 -1 the other night. Yeah. Wow. That's the one I was at. Yeah. Oh, nice. For the championship run. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. Very cool. Very cool. But they are the minor league farm team for the Detroit Tigers.

Maybe you've heard of them. Maybe you've heard of them.

Maybe not. Yeah. Actually, the other day, I was reading up a little bit on the 1984 Tigers. I don't know if you guys remember the Detroit Tigers in 84. Oh, yeah. I was three years old. Yeah. Absolutely.

I mean, they were the best. Yeah. I mean, you're talking Alan Trammel, Lou Whittaker Whittaker, yeah. Daryl Evans, Tom Brookens. I mean, there's so many. Jack Norris was on that team, Chet Lemon. I could go on and on and on, but 1984 Detroit Tigers, look them up and remember and watch some of those YouTube videos.

Okay. Can you talk about the When I was little, I went to Tiger Stadium, and when this guy got up to bat, everyone started booing him. And I said, why is everyone booing him? And my dad was like

It was Lou. No, it was Lou Whittaker. Yep. He would go, Lou. Yep. Everybody That's wild. Totally remember that. Josh is sitting here like, I wasn't born in 83, guys. I don't know what the heck you're talking about.

I have three years still to go. That's great. Oh, man. He wasn't a twinkle in his daddy's eye yet. Oh, yeah. So what have you been up to since you've been here last, Josh? Oh, man.

Life is insane. You got to see one of the things I've been involved in lately, last week. So I actually got on staff at the church that I've attended for about six and a half years. And so I get a unique opportunity to be our community engagement specialist and minister.

So I have a unique job where we get this really cool donated stuff, and we get it in the hands of local nonprofits so that they can bless their communities. That's awesome. And we just get all sorts of off the wall stuff, and we get to bless people with it.

And the expectation is that it goes to those who are needy, those who are poverty stricken, those who are dealing with financial issues, and just be able to get them really quality, really grade A stuff for pennies on the dollar.

It's absolutely incredible. Along with that, I think the last time I was here, I bought a house. I'm living in Michigan. Nice. You're welcome. We converted him. You're welcome. He's no longer a Buckeye.

Oh, no. Jesus saved and Buckeye raised, but I've gotten used to the smell here. So cheers.

Oh, hey-oh. Whoa. Coming in our house talking like that.

No, I'm actually, me and my wife are getting ready to go up to Torch Lake next week. Nice. It's going to be super exciting. Yeah. Never been that far up north. So ready to go and experience the Caribbean blue waters of Lake Michigan.

Absolutely. Very nice. Very nice.

Yeah, I just posted a picture. No, I didn't post it. I might've sent it to someone of St. Joseph's, which is just two hours basically west of us right on Lake Michigan. And it's gorgeous. Every bit as gorgeous as some ocean ports that you see.

Come on. Yeah. But yeah, go up north and enjoy it. I will say for anyone listening too, if you're a ministry, you can get ahold of us and we'll put you in touch with Josh because I was there and I did purchase some items and I already got to bless someone with a, like it was about a $350 Eddie Bauer winter jacket.

Guy was talking to him and he's like, man, it's hard right now. You know, I need a jacket. I need this and that. He was a guy that I see that is sometimes on the corner and I got to bless him with that jacket.

Come on. So it's already paying off. Yeah. And I think it was like five or 10 bucks for like a premium Eddie Bauer. Wow. Yeah. Feather down or loose down jacket. So very cool what you're doing in that ministry, passing on those savings.

And like you said, it's, it's for ministries with the expectation to bless others. Exactly. So if you're a ministry, uh, uh, get ahold of us and I'll, I'll put you in touch with Josh. So very cool, man.

And even if you're out of state, if you're listening somewhere across the country or even internationally, I actually can set you up with some stuff, been working even right now to be able to work with some of the organizations that have been doing stuff over in Afghanistan.

To be able to get them products and be able to get, even if it, even in, uh, do you ship to you? Back to Stan? We're the number one podcast now for the last six months. And you may be heard of it. Yeah.

Isn't that crazy? I've heard of it is by looking it up after seeing you guys post on it.

I bet there's absolutely a way in the top 10 there, man. I don't know. So everyone listening to you, Becca Stan, we hear you. We understand what's going on in that part of the world. We're praying for you.

We appreciate you listening. Yeah. So very cool. So you guys want to get into it? Yeah. What are we talking about tonight, Josh? Because Josh did something where he said, Hey, I'm coming with, I'm coming with something.

And we said, okay. And he just gave us the bullet points and we said, all right, I'm going to do, it's like a tap takeover. When you go to a brewery, it's like a Josh takeover, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I like it, but very conversational still.

We'll probably interrupt you five or 10 times before you're done. I will at least. Yeah. That's what I'm expecting.

And that's going to be the fun part. So what I will really just, this is one of the things that stirs up in me is talking about how do you actually walk out a walk with Jesus? And how are we supposed to live this thing out in a real practical way?

Because honestly, living in the West, everybody wants to over spiritualize everything. Everybody wants to make everything weird. There's all sorts of weird stuff out there. When really the Lord walked a really practical life.

He really did real things that really impacted people. And so if we are called to be disciples and followers of Jesus, then that means that our lives should be pretty practical in it. That there's easy ways to walk out an active lifestyle that is going to glorify God and point people to Jesus.

And so really reading through Hebrews, there's a specific verse in Hebrews chapter six, verses one through three, that has always stood out to me, always held a special place in my heart. And then as I've begun, you know, studying ancestry with my uncle, who's a twice retired army vet, learning about some of my Jewish heritage and some of those things, this scripture really has become alive to me over the past few years.

And it's, therefore, leaving the elementary principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, faith toward God, of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

This we will do if God permits. And it's really simple. Like these are what whoever will, we can joke around and say, Paul, what Paul's getting at here is if you want to move on to maturity, these should be some of the building blocks that you have laid on the foundation of Christ himself, because he is the rock.

He is the foundation. He is the cornerstone. He's what we build everything off of. But just like when we build our own houses, just like when we build businesses, you have to move from that foundation, lay down a floor, build up some walls, put in some trim, paint, roof, all those things.

And so these six principles are the most practical ways that we can live out active faith as a believer in Jesus. And for whoever was writing this, writing this to Messianic Jews living back in the first century who are turning in following after Yeshua, following after the Messiah as they have believed from the scriptures that they had.

He's reminding them like, you guys know this. This was already a practical application for them and for their faith. And so just like for us in this day and age, we get to participate in that. Being grafted in the vine, this is truth for us too.

And so it makes people always want to make spiritual maturity and growing in your faith in these weird things when it can be just as practical as this.

Practical Maturity in Hebrews 6

Yeah. I feel like sometimes too, maybe here and I don't have any, well, I might have scriptural evidence for it, but it feels like when you're reading through this, it's almost like with the early Christians, the pendulum was swinging kind of in the new churches.

So it went from, you know, they'd have the arguments over. Do you have to be circumcised? Can we sit with other Jews? Those whole things. But it's almost like it swing too far. And it was like, OK, we have all this freedom and grace and all this stuff.

And he's like, well, hold on. We also, you know, let's not stay too focused on that. Let's let's be balanced and let's be in moderation. And and I think that's a good word for the Western Christian churches.

Sometimes we get a little too spiritualized and you go, well, what's wrong with being spiritualized? It's like, well, look, I love miracles. I love being spiritual. I love my time with God in prayer, which I say is a spiritual experience.

I get all that. But at the same time, the Lord commands us to walk out some real practical things in life that take work. There's a reason why Paul refers to it as running a race or a marathon as a lifelong race, right?

It's not compared to, hey, since you guys now have your ticket on the cruise ship and you're going to sit back on the deck and sunbathe, I want to tell you about Christ. It's like, oh, no, we are running this race.

It's hard work. So there's like real world practical things that the Lord commands us to do. Some of those are spiritual and sacraments, baptism and communion and things like that. Some of those things are principles of God that will just actually seems hard, but will make your life easier because he's created this universe in a certain way.

Straight up, you know, reap what you sow, work ethic, all those things that we've talked about before on the podcast. So, yeah, I'm tracking with what you're saying for sure.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think as well, too, just in context, I mean, you know, you have good Jewish rabbis that were saying, you know, I mean, they were saying the same things that Christians were, right?

They were being taught the same stuff like resurrection of the dead, repentance of dead works, faith towards God, washings, laying out of hands, eternal judgment. The only difference was Christ. Yeah.

Right. So, yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, as as, you know, we read we read these these verses, I mean, we are definitely seeing a shift, but also remember, too, that they were asking them to come back to sacrifice, you know, in Hebrews, right?

Yep. So, you know, and then, you know, they were calling Jews back and pagans. But, you know, I mean, the difference with all of that was Christ, right? Yeah. So, you know, it's just those verses were just really interesting to me to to get to that point, you know, as you got through chapter five, especially, you know, going from, you know, reading about you're only getting the milk, you know, you should be getting growing into the meat, you know, getting the meat and all of that.

But anyway, yeah, that was that was kind of my my little take that I I kind of was studying through with that.

So praise God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that really is what it boils down to is as we mature as believers, we are called to move from the simple milk onto eating. Let's get some steak. Let's get some veggies.

Let's eat a full meal that is going to satisfy and nourish so that we can become the growing boys and girls that God has called us. Yeah. And so and again, it's it's so practical. But the thing that's different, like Jason just mentioned, is is Jesus because of the work of Jesus on the cross, because of the fulfilled work that he did on the cross and that he rose again on the third day and ascended the right hand of the Father.

These things take on a even greater context, just like the author of Hebrews goes all the way through and makes all the comparisons like Jesus is a better sacrifice. Jesus is the better Moses. Jesus is the better this and the better that.

Even these simple practical things that Jews of the day were walking out like there's a new layer to it because the Messiah had come. Yeah. And that is what they were missing. The Messiah they had been looking for was right before their eyes.

And the call of what he said in his life and what he taught takes these things to such an even deeper depth that for us today can make this walk, one, even more fulfilling because as I always say, to go with what you were saying, the most practical things in this life are the most spiritual.

Taking communion, it's it's a practical thing, but it's a precious spiritual sacrament that we do in honor to the Lord until he comes. We do these different things, but it's not always just about the signs, the wonders and the miracles.

Same thing. I'm involved in seeing different movements like that and all that and actually really studying through this has helped me ground out on some things with that. Like I've experienced it. I was deaf.

Now I hear, right? Like and Jesus did it was only him. And because of the work that he promised that I would have hope that he was who he said he was. And as a confirmation of the gospel that was preached to me, that is what signs and wonders and miracles are for, not for us to be superheroes.

Yes. Sorry.

Yeah. Just to piggyback off of what you're saying today, I actually experienced that in worship at the 9 a .m. service. A guy was was speaking in tongues and that's all that was running through my brain was let there be an interpreter.

Please be an interpreter. Please be an interpreter. And they did. Somebody interpreted. And I tell you what, like it hit me so hard. I got to that point of like the snot was running down my face, bros.

Yeah. You know, one of those words. Good. Yeah, man. But it was such a good word. And and I mean, it's like just like you're saying, Josh, these things are real, you know, and we have talked about this thing.

We've talked about being cautious continuationists for a while on this podcast. And it's like, you know, that is one example where it's like, man, like God is so real and you can experience this, you know, for real as a believer.

And yeah, I mean, it's it's just amazing, you know, just to just experience that. And I don't maybe the experience is the wrong word. I'm sure Greg will correct me on that. You know what, man, like like when the Holy Spirit knocks you down or or like makes you weep and, you know, just like coddles you, it's one of those things like, oh, man, I needed that.

Come on. But when it's real, when it's real and real. Yeah, yeah. Yes.

Yeah. And it's a move of the spirit. Well, the problem is, is the Lord doesn't give us nerf toys in this world. He gives us sharp items. Right. He gives us things like it's good, like cigars and bourbon and miracles.

And I'm not putting those away where cigars and bourbon. I'm saying he gives us sharp.

Things. And he said and he says, do it all unto the glory of God and like healing and miracle. I mean, that is a sharp item, so to speak. That is an item that can be manipulated and can be misused and can be misrepresented, just like many other things that the Lord has given to us for our pleasure and to bring him glory at the same time.

Right. Come on. So it's like you can abuse just about anything. And it's and it might seem like sometimes, too, on this podcast, we might pick on one or two things, but it's just because your heart aches when you see it manipulated to a point to where it's being exported to third world countries.

And in the gospel is all about prosperity and making money and all these things. And then you look at some of these guys, and I know both of you guys have traveled internationally. So you've seen these types of people where they they don't have anything and they're the most blessed, happy, peaceful, connected to God people that you can find.

What are we doing wrong in this country? You know, when we think it's all about the mighty dollar, the car, the camper, the house, the whatever it is, right. The dog and the family and the picket fence.

Yeah. And it's like, no, man, like Christ is all that there is. That's the only thing we should be pining after and wanting and bringing glory for. But I don't know how I got on that.

I got kind of sidetracked. But yeah, go ahead. You know, that was great. And because that's who the gospel is for, right? It's for the poor. It's for the broken. It's for the ones who have a contrite heart, who who can really receive it.

And so even man, just with everything going on around the nations, I'm blessed to be involved with some ministries that do a lot of work over there and hear testimonies and hear just of the crazy things that the Lord is doing.

And then I look around and I see some of just the absolute tomfoolery. Yeah, because I've also like you guys have known me for years. You've seen my walk. And now I would say I'm in the same boat as you guys.

I am a. You're reformed. You're not over yet.

I was like, hey, man, where's the bourbon?

Cautious, continuous. Yeah, that was great. Amen, brother. But I would say that I have become reformed in some of my thinkings and some of those things in the literal sense of the word. Yeah, absolutely.

I had a lot more what I would say a liberal view on the gifts of the spirit and the things of the spirit. But now if it's not manifesting and glorifying Jesus, then I doubt that it's the Holy Spirit. It's going to be another one.

And that's why we are called to test every spirit. And unfortunately, within America, we we don't test. Yeah, we we rather would love to see all the cool stuff happen to have these experiences. And we've watched the new age and we've watched Eastern spiritualism and even the spiritualism of our own country, ancestry worship through the Native Americans and some of that stuff.

We see that just pour through within the church. And instead, we're not pursuing after the spirit of God so that he might do a mighty work and that it might glorify Jesus, because that's what it's all about.

Yeah, confirm the gospel and to glorify Jesus. Yeah. Yeah.

And, you know, I see also just, you know, and again, we do talk about this a lot on the podcast and it gets hard to get away from. But it's like, you know, at times it's like people are just saying, hey, just just, you know, change change your way with with this one little thing.

Just just sit back. You know, don't don't have such an opinion. Don't have such a biblical stance on one thing. You know, let's just be unified. You know, don't don't say anything about Stephen Furtick.

Don't say anything about Joel Osteen. Don't say anything. You know, you can't call them by name. If you're going to talk about this stuff, you say it in a roundabout way. Like coded. Yeah. Yeah. You can't be direct.

And it's like, you know, yeah, there there is something that we we do that we are unified with. And that's Christ. Yeah. You know, like like that's the only place that, you know, it and, you know, again, it's like not the oneness.

We're not talking about modalism. We're not talking about some of this crazy stuff that we hear these guys talk about. T .D. Jakes and whoever. I've already named three. He's like, we don't want to name them.

We don't want to name them all for you. But here we go. I will go out. But yeah. No, man. What we what we strive to have in common, you know, is Christ. And some of these tertiary issues that we talk about, these secondary doctrines.

I mean, we can we can agree to disagree, you know, in a way. But, you know, let's let's use the Bible to explain what we actually believe. Come on. So, amen.

Yeah. And I would say to piggyback off what you were saying, I just said then I was in a clubhouse chat and some lady came out and she had like the rainbow thing and the vegan and this. She called you and she said and she was talking about someone and she said, I want to veggie back off someone.

I kid you not. That's great. And they go, what? She goes, I don't I don't eat meat. I don't talk about it. Piggies have been, you know, like, oh, my gosh. But anyway, so to piggyback off what you're saying really quick, too, about the you know, I never read the gospel, see Jesus heal someone.

And then that person just immediately goes back to their old sinful life. Their life was changed. Exactly. The glory to God just wasn't in the physical healing. It was the one came back or the you know, or the one stands before the Sanhedrin and says, yeah, I don't know how it happened, but I was blind and now I can see that's all I can say.

Yeah, like there was a witness there. There was a change of heart. There was a regeneration. There was a saving. And that's the purpose, I believe, of healing when we say bring glory to God. Yes. And look at the Lord in his perfect prescriptive will in an unfallen world.

Yes, we all would be in perfect health and all that good stuff. And we know all about original sin and all that stuff and why the world is why it is right. My point is, is that the glory part of God is God getting the glory in not only the healing of the physical, but the saving of the spiritual and then us professing that, right?

Come on, it's a catalyst for the Great Commission, I feel like. And that's where I kind of look and go, okay, is that being promoted in this person's ministry or in this meeting or this church, or is it, you know, more celebrity and look what I can do and emotional and things like, and there's nothing wrong with emotions.

Don't get me wrong. Let's read the book of Ecclesiastes, most of the Psalms, read Job. We have a lot of emotions going on there, right? Definitely. Someone even argued David had some type of melancholy bipolar stuff going on there.

I'm not saying that, but I'm saying theologians and scholars have argued that. So not saying emotions are bad, right? Yeah. I'm just saying, you know, whatever you cling to in time of trouble, that is your true God.

So if it's your emotions, your job or whatever it is, that's your true God. So what we have to do is we have to try to put Christ at the center. And I think what you're talking about here, Josh, is going to get us there.

Some practical things that allow us to put Christ at the center and, you know, get us through that sanctification and glorify him in all we do. Amen.

Absolutely. So looking at the first one and really just looking at what this is about, it's about the doctrine of Christ. So we know, and I was even talking about this in my Bible study on Friday, Christ was not Jesus's last name.

Like that wasn't Joseph's last name that he took on and because of the whole blended family concept, it's a title. Sure. He was the Messiah. And so these are the elementary principles of Jesus in his messiahship and what the calling in that was because we have chosen to believe in him as Messiah.

And so in that, the first one is the one that should always be first, and that's repentance from dead works. We know that unless the spirit of God draws us by the proclamation of the gospel, that we won't repent.

We won't make that choice. Did you just say total depravity from Tulip? Keep going, bro. I'm listening. All right. One out of five. Okay.

You got four more left. Go ahead. Unconditional election. The atonement one's going to be tough, but we'll get them over that hump. Yeah.

No, I'm just kidding. We get to this point of repentance where it's not our desire. We would love to lie about all of the nastiness of our life and say, I'm a good person. Like we have good quality because God made us, but that doesn't make us good people.

We are all scumbags without Jesus. And so, but repentance is not a one-time event. And most Christians, especially I find in the West, they desire to make it a one-time event that I said the prayer, I did the thing.

And you know what? All I had to do was change my mind. That's the other one that really, I'm going to, I'm going to quote something, grinds my gears. Like it drives me nuts. Repentance is not just changing your mind.

If someone has told you that, then they haven't looked at the Bible in its totality because it's not just changing your mind. Anybody can change your mind. Anybody can change their mind about a certain thing, but unless your mindset changes from your sinfulness, because you're repenting from sin, you're not repenting from a bad mindset.

You're not repenting from, oh, well, maybe that's just not a good, no, you're repenting because you sinned. And so turning from that and turning back to God and to God's leading, to God's direction, that is going to be true repentance.

Yeah. True repentance action follows the words. Exactly.

There's action behind it. You just, you just quoted Dan Mahler and Todd White. So, but go ahead. No, no, no. He just said, he just like, like, spoke against it. What they, what they say. Yeah. Like he said the right thing.

Oh, that's what Dan Mahler and Todd White teach. No, no, no. That's, that's what they teach. You change your mind and that's it.

You know? Yeah. That's a tough one, man. Yeah. And I love those guys. I know that they're really trying and they try a lot better than most. They're going to do the hard things that most people don't want to get out of their pew and go and actually pray for someone.

He does. But there is such that pivotal component that you, and I think he's really come to a realization on that though in the past couple of years that like, you actually have to tell people to repent.

Jesus's first public words after his baptism was repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. And so if repentance is not the message that we're carrying, then we're not carrying the gospel. And so that's a really hard fact for a lot of people to deal with.

And it's because they weren't actually told to repent. And so, but it has to be more than just, I'm going to change my mind. Like, no, if you look at pornography, you actually have to say, this is bad and sinful.

And I need to turn away from doing this and do the right thing. If you are lusting after someone, you have to say, this is wrong. Just not, man, I need to change my mind about this. I need to think about this differently.

That's not ever going to produce a lifestyle of sanctification and of putting off the old man and putting on the new. And so with that, repentance is the easy one. But the thing that really has to be addressed is it's not just about changing your mindset.

It's not about changing your lens. It's about turning from your sin. And if we say that we are without sin, the Bible tells you that you are a liar and the truth is not in you. And so in that, we just have to be really humble.

That's the point of repentance. It's to humble us so that we will realize that unless Jesus had performed the work that he performed on the cross to atone for our sins, then we have no hope. The only hope that we have is, one of my old bosses brothers used to say, the only hope that we have without Christ is the fire of damnation.

That's our hope. And so the promise of that, it actually, it should make repentance so worth it. Because we then, we get to just give that to the Lord. When we repent and we turn, like he will wrap us.

The blood covers us and it brings you to such a place of purification. It makes me want to cry to think about it because I was a scumbag. And I know without the blood of Jesus, without that and without me actually turning from my sin and saying actually, I was that person.

I would not be able to be the man that I am today.

So this is kind of why I say more disciples and less pastors. And I say it kind of flippantly, but I mean anyone can get up there, not anyone, but many people, many people can get up there and tell you and speak to you and give you words and you go, okay, I hear those words.

How many people are out there? Okay, let me put it another way. If you're telling someone to repent, you must have first repented yourself. That's right. Or that's hypocrisy. Judge not lest ye be judged.

That's exactly what Christ is talking about. He's like, no, you don't get to have a secret sin and then go judge someone else with that same sin and go, well, I know Christ and you know, that's why I get to say you got to stop doing that.

No, no, no, no, you don't get, judge not lest ye be judged for your own sin. So this weird thing of if we actually had more disciples that were walking the walk and actually doing the talk, right, instead of just saying it, I think the Christian church would be in a different place because, you know, we might say, we might refer to non-believers as the lost, but they're not stupid.

They can sniff out a someone who's hypocritical real quick, real quick, can't they? And sometimes Christians, we're the king of hypocrisy. We have all the right words and we can say these things and we kind of put on this show and we know how to act around certain people when in fact Christ wants authenticity and repentance gets to the heart of that authenticity, right?