Todd Friel Interview--Unmasking Jesus (rerun)

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Interview with Todd Friel and the Purpose of Jesus Unmasked

Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry, my name is Mike Abendroth, I'm your host. Just a couple of housekeeping tips before we start, don't forget the Israel trip deadline is coming up here at the end of October, we will be going with Pat Abendroth and Omaha Bible Church to Israel, February 17th through the 25th, and then, Lord willing, if ISIS isn't around, off to Jordan as well, down to Moab, our guest is already laughing, down to Moab and Petra, and that's February 17th, you can go to NoCompromiseRadio .com for more details.

Wednesdays, we like to have interviews, and I have one of my favorite interviewees on the phone right now, Todd Friel, welcome to No Compromise Radio.

You're going to Israel with that great rock and roll Christian singing group, Petra?

Well, Striper was busy, so I used to blast Striper all the time from the pulpit just as like a joke, I wasn't blasting, I was laughing, and I had a friend in the congregation, he said, I love Striper, you know, you're always making fun of Striper, and probably two weeks later I went to a garage sale and got about 10 Striper CDs for him to make amends.

Yeah, and then he left your church, didn't he? No, he's still around, actually.

Wow. So, Mr. Todd Friel's on today, I've no... Can I get a question for you?

Yeah, sure. Where do you support, where's the line for the Christian making fun and crossing over into the land of hurting people? How do you know where that line is?

Do you know what... Like with Striper. You know what, Friel, this is my show, it's my show, and you start off asking questions. I don't do this a lot. Here's the really good news, when I guest host your show or something like that, I have to mind my manners, I'm a man under authority, I know what submission means, but now this is my show, pal.

So zip it, got it. No, I think, I didn't mean blast, Todd, I meant I was kind of laughing, and you know, it's the hair and everything else, I wasn't trying to demean Striper, I was just trying to hurt their CD sales.

You know what I've learned about daughters is that a man's sense of humor is not always appropriate. I'm not talking about being coarse or vulgar, that's never appropriate. But I've found with daughters, you know, the way that we guys joke around, you know, some of the best things that I can say to a guy are kind of, you know, sharp and stinging, that's our way of saying, love you, bro, not with daughters, don't do that with daughters, they don't appreciate the sarcasm like men do.

I am so thankful for a wife and daughters, very thankful. Todd, I want to talk to you today about your book, your new book.

And another thing, if I could, I'm sorry.

Jesus Unmasked and Seeing the Bible as a Unified Story

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. I can't edit this, you know. So you wrote a book called Jesus Unmasked, The Truth Will Shock You, it's a brand new book. But before we talk about the book, when I wrote a book about Jesus, I asked you to do an endorsement.

Now, I won't say anything about the lack of endorsement asking in a reciprocal fashion, but I will say this, here's what you said about the book that I wrote, Sovereignty and Supremacy of King Jesus, you are holding what is destined to be one of the worst selling books of all time.

That was your line. There are a plethora of books describing Jesus as friend because they sell. There are very few books that describe Jesus as king. It's about time that a book is written and published to balance the scales of our understanding of God.

Evangelicals need to read this book. So, after my sales plummeted because you were prophetic in, this is the worst selling book of all time, it's like number two billion on the Amazon selling list, now you write a book called Jesus Unmasked.

So, tell our audience why you wrote the book and why it's important to think about Jesus properly.

Well, everybody seems to have their own definition of Jesus as if he's a piece of art and they can apply their own meaning to him and maybe he's a miracle, maybe the whole bread thing, but he's just overall a good teacher.

So, all kinds of descriptors of Jesus. The question is to go into the Bible and ask the greatest source. Then you take a look at the entire, you are left with what the Bible is about and the Bible actually makes sense.

It's not a hodgepodge of stories kind of slapped together like we teach the kids. It actually makes sense. It has a flow and it is all moving toward.

Todd, what I like about the book is we're telling people or you're telling people about who Jesus is as he's revealed in the Bible and that will help both Christians as they grow in grace. It'll also help them when they evangelize because the people out there who don't know Christ in a saving way need to understand the object of their faith.

So, talk to me a little bit about how this book can help us evangelize.

Christ as the Center of Redemptive History

Well, let me share two points, if I could. Number one, when you take a look at the Bible and when you understand the point, what is God doing in the universe? What does the Bible point us to? And everything's redemptive plan through Jesus.

There's a people called the Jews. That is why he came out of this land and promised Messiah. And the entire Bible is about that. So, when we read about Daniel in the lion's den, when we read about Nehemiah and building a wall, it's not a management manual.

It's all because God is working things out to bring about Jesus at the fullness of time, the correct time, so that we can have a Savior so he can be glorified. Now, if that is the whole point of the universe, and I think it is based on actually rearranged plan that people would crucify Jesus, not as a victim, but as a volunteer.

Napoleon Bonaparte, it's still about Jesus. You read about Genghis Khan, it's still about Jesus. The Roman Empire, it's about Jesus. Everything is about pointing to Jesus. Consummation of history, it's going to be about Jesus.

We need to get our brains wrapped around that. Ask yourself the question, does that go about the business of loving my wife or parenting my children? If it doesn't have some sort of implication for our lives, I think we're missing the point.

If God is... not that any of those... what should my... I don't like him, and I know I'm preaching here. No, here's what happens, Todd.

Just hold on for a second. I'm not getting any other questions prepared, because for a moment I just was sitting here thinking I was listening to wretched radio, and I don't have to say anything.

Yeah, no, but I'm not doing wretched radio. I'm in my office, just talking. No, I'm glad. Preach away. That's why I have you on the radio. Go for it. Again, this is kind of big. I mean, the whole... God can be glorified.

So all the other stuff is... Now, what does that mean for my local church? Master, you do programs, you do stuff, but if those things aren't about ultimately pointing to Jesus, or being done because I've been pointed to Jesus, I'm probably missing the point, or the local church is probably missing the point.

God is trying to do on the earth.

I think that we'd have ourselves... Todd, I totally agree. And why is it that if we were to have a conference, and it was a marriage and sex conference, we would pack it out. If we had a conference on Christology, few would show.

Right.

You know, and I get... I get that. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing a conference on the... What end? Why... Grab bag, or so that I can throw it down when I'm talking to the atheists to go,.

Ha! Okay. It's not that God doesn't... But again, I just need to be mindful. How can I use whatever information... Me to Jesus...

Should point us to Jesus... Todd, one of the things I liked about the book is you went through a lot of different Old Testament and New Testament passages that would show the fame of Christ Jesus, show His honor and His glory.

I think it helps the reader go back to the New Testament and then say the star, the focus, the theme is Jesus because we are so apt as frail, sinful humans to open up Hebrews 11, for instance, and say, look at Rahab and look at Abraham when everything about Hebrews and everything about the Bible, of course, is talking about the supremacy of Jesus and the superiority of Jesus.

But then all of a sudden we get to the Hall of Faith and it's all about their faith, not the object of their faith. And so I'm glad the book shows us Old Testament and New Testament passages with Christ Jesus as the focus.

That was planned out, right?

Well, that actually... Thank you. That was actually the point that I was going to make. Typically, he'd go straight to the synagogue. It made sense, very strategic. And he would reason with them about Jesus from not the New Testament, he'd read from the Scriptures and Christianity.

How did Paul read the New Testament? Well, that's exactly what Jesus did in Luke 24. Jesus said to the Pharisees, you read the words of Moses because in them you think you have life. But they testify that nation is that in a technical...

That to me is staggeringly powerful. It is not an apologetic for the faith. It's proclaiming the faith by using the word to use the Old Testament to point to Jesus in the New.

The Scholarly Yet Accessible Style of Jesus Unmasked

Talking to Todd Friel today. He's the host of Wretched Radio, Wretched TV. He goes on Twitter. One week later he has 10 ,000 followers. We're talking to the Todd Friel. By the way, Todd, I have to say in the middle of all this, with all sincerity, thank you very much for the opportunities to guest host Wretched Radio.

Oh, dude, I'm so grateful for you. Seriously. If it wasn't for Wretched Radio, Laverne and Shirley would be just Laverne, I think, in terms of spinoffs. Todd, you are very well-spoken, great host in terms of a media host trying to proclaim who Jesus is.

But I think the book will reveal another side of you. I already knew it, but maybe some of our listeners don't. You're really scholarly when it comes to understanding scriptures. For instance, when I hear you talk about Jesus with prophet, priest, and king language, I'm not so sure lots of listeners realize you go to those depths.

You'll talk about superlapsarianism, a bunch of big words. I was very pleased at the scholastic level of the book because it's not all scholasticism. I don't mean that. But you've got enough basic stuff mixed in with the deep stuff that you're going to catch people in both ends of the pond.

Yeah, it's written.

I can't write at a scholarly level, so I presume that's where it is. Well, you write like you talk.

I hear Todd Friel's voice when I read this book. Well, how do you write?

How do you not write like you talk?

Well, I have a plethora, a bevy of editors. Ah! No, seriously, I read the book and I go, this is Todd speaking to me. Except I can stop, reread it, look at it. And when you said, I think here's my favorite part of the book, Todd, because I'm so against what you're against regarding this.

Be a Nehemiah leader. Pray like Nehemiah. Be a wall builder. Todd Friel says on page 145, to read the book of Nehemiah for leadership lessons is like reading a tale of two cities to learn how to be a good lawyer.

It's like reading Moby Dick to discover fishing trips. I loved it. And then you said it's like reading The Hobbit for advice on dealing with hairy feet. It misses the point.

Amen, Todd Friel. Yeah, that's okay. So how do you make sense of the Old Testament? It's a tale of two covenants, if you will. It is about the Abrahamic covenant, which God cut with Abraham, a land, a nation, a seed.

And he promised, I'm going to make sure there's what you do. But then we see what we would typically call the Old Covenant, which is the covenant with Moses. It is a quid pro act like this. I bless you.

If you act poorly, I'll whack you. Deuteronomy 28. So now as you read, not in his home, return to Israel and a temple built. Why? Because God was being faithful. Coming back to building, not management or leadership tips.

It is about God's faithfulness to Nehemiah.

Christ's Active and Passive Obedience, Righteousness, and Federal Headship

When you talk about Jesus, Todd, I'm thankful that you talked about what theologians call both the active and passive obedience of Christ. And so you list it in your book, page 88. On the negative side, Jesus never shaded the truth.

He never used God's name as a curse word. He never used coarse or profane language. On the positive side, he always volunteered to help. He always encouraged. And so Todd, in all honesty, I like the way you discuss these deep theological truths, but you did it in a way that no co-listeners and wretched listeners and lay people would get.

Well, I just hear this first half. You're going to go, that's kind of like blasphemous, dude, and put on a cross to be abated. So that's even better than that. It's never looking with righteousness. And that gets credited before the judge, not just forgiven, but seen as citizen of the century, given the keys to the city because of what Jesus has done for me.

That's an amazing gospel.

Well, essentially then, Todd, we believe that salvation is by works, but it is by the works of Christ Jesus.

Yeah, and we get all of that. I mean, again, not just forgiven. That's huge, but that brings our bank account up to zero. We have a huge debt we can't pay. He brings it to zero, but then he puts in a gazillion dollars for us because of his righteousness.

We get all of that if we're in Christ.

An old Puritan said, my righteousness has been in heaven for 1800 years. His name is John Bunyan. And if I'm not careful, I might say Paul Bunyan, but I think he's up in Minnesota. Yeah, with that big blue ox.

I read it. There was a Martin Luther quote that just moved me, frankly. And sometimes, boy, when he would nail it, it was my righteousness.

Well, Todd, here in Massachusetts, it snows a lot. And so I remember his illustration, Luther's illustration of Christ's righteousness that he earned for all those who would believe. And he said, it's like looking out at the dung pile.

There's a bunch of dung there. It doesn't look good. It's dung. And then when it snows three inches of just pure, beautiful white snow, you look out and you see not a dung pile. You just see a beautiful white snow pile.

And so just to think, we are sinful. And even our best things are like filthy rags and filthy dung. Yet Christ Jesus's perfect life covers us. And we have a righteousness now better than Adam's. Adam only had his own righteousness, and now we have Christ's righteousness, the last Adam.

And another question, Todd. By the way, you're so good at radio, I don't even ask a question. I just stop talking, and then you can respond. Most people like questions. You don't need one because you're too good for this.

You talk about something that's maybe my favorite subject regarding Christ, and Christ is a federal head. He's a representative. Tell our listeners a little bit about why that's important to believe Jesus is the federal head and why you put it in the book.

Well, a lot of people kind of bristle at this because it's not very Marlboro Manny. But we already do right here on earth. If our dad becomes a raging alcoholic and dies in the gutter, he brings shame to the whole family.

Now, I didn't drink that booze. I didn't die in the street. But I still feel that because he represented Congress. And I just need to take my breath. We have a tendency to think we would have done better.

We would not. He represented us as a great representative. And because of Adam, you will read that that is an anti-type. Adam was a reverse picture of Jesus. Genesis 1 is a story about a man named Adam.

One in the beginning seeded a man named Adam who failed. The New Testament is a story of a man named Adam.

Todd, I was told at seminary in Theology 2 class that when you open your Bible, you should have your Bible opened naturally to Romans 5. It's because you've spent so much time studying this great subject of Christ Jesus as our representative.

And so we all as seminary students quickly creased our Bibles to Romans 5. So I want you to know that I've put a huge crease in your book, Jesus Unmasked, on page 168 and 169 on Federal Head. And I think if people grab that to realize that we have such a great representative.

Jesus was substitute, yes. But he was also our representative. And if the law of God is do this and live, we need somebody to do this so that we can live. And of course, we couldn't. And so Jesus fills in as the second Adam.

Upcoming Wretched Projects and Closing Benediction

Todd, we've only got about a minute left to go. Tell us what's going on in the works for Wretched Radio, projects, a new book, stuff like that.

I'm writing a new book that's never going to be published. It's called This Has to Stop. It is a loving ledger to the evangelical church. And it's got way too many chapters. It's the stuff that I see in evangelical Christianity that I wish didn't actually exist.

And it critiques. We're also doing a new Biggest Project with Votie Baucom and Ray Comfort. And an EZ from Lib Project. And we've got a new witness.

Well, Todd, thank you so much today for being on No Compromise Radio. As we're authentic together, in community together, missional together, relevant, broken and wounded. So I'm glad we could do all those things together.

Love you, bro. Thank you. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Avendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible-teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming... ...diverse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 10 .15 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.