May 6, 2025 Show with Astronaut Barry Wilmore on “Trusting in God’s Sovereignty While Stranded in Outer Space” PLUS Dr. Jason Lisle on “How Do Most Secular Scientists Disagree with the Biblically Minded Scientists about Astronomy?”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

The Purpose of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this sixth day of May 2025.

During the second hour of today's program, I'll be giving you all praise reports on the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon that we had last Thursday with a keynote speaker, Dr. Jason Lyle, who is a Christian astrophysicist.

He was a phenomenal guest speaker, and we have him, thankfully, as our second guest today on the program, and he will also give his own account of what occurred last Thursday at the Pastors Luncheon here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

But for the first hour, I am so thrilled and honored with the privilege of having on the program for the very first time Barry, also known as Butch Wilmore, who is an astronaut, and anyone who has access to a television set or computer must know that for nine months, Barry Wilmore and Suni Williams were astronauts stranded in space for nine months after what was intended to originally be just an eight-day mission in space, and thankfully, he was rescued and returned safely here to Earth, and we have Barry Wilmore on the program today, and he is not only an astronaut, but he is a fellow Reformed Baptist, and he is an elder at Providence Baptist Church in Pasadena, Texas.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you to the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,.

Barry Wilmore. Yes, Chris, it's wonderful to be here with you and to share just some things about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ with you and your listeners.

Thank you for the opportunity. Amen. Well, I'm sure you're thrilled to be back on the planet Earth. Yes, sir, the Earth is a wonderful place to be. Well, as we always do on this program when we have a first-time guest, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include their religious atmosphere, if any, in which they were raised and what kind of providential circumstances our Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them, and we would love to hear a summary of your story.

Well, I was very.

Fortunate, blessed, in fact, that my parents loved the Lord. They loved Jesus Christ. They had us in church. They taught me early the importance of the church, that the church is vital to our spiritual well-being.

I was a very inquisitive, at times rambunctious little child, kid, and I needed that continual—and I know that now—I needed that continual infusion of the truth of God's Word, even at a rudimentary level, not completely understanding everything as, of course, the weeks and months and years went forward.

But by God's grace, I came to understand that I was lost, that my sin separated me from the Holy God, that I was deserving of punishment. I was deserving of eternal punishment, though I didn't understand what all that meant at a ten-year-old's age, but it was real to me, and I distinctly remember the burden of my sin, the burden that I carried, the guilt of what I knew that separated me from my Lord.

I remember that vividly. Tears at many times, just out of the blue, realizing that, and I just couldn't figure out, though, what this salvation was, how I could get it. My mother had some back issues.

One Sunday night, I stayed home with her from church. My brother and dad went to church, as we always did, but I stayed home with her because she was down on her back and needed some assistance, and the Lord used that opportunity once again to have her share the truth of the gospel with me, and that night, the Lord made it clear, and I now know, looking back, I didn't ask the Lord to save me.

I simply was able to believe, and I now know that he enabled me to believe. He is the one that regenerated me. Even as a child, I was spiritually dead, as it says in Ephesians 2, and I now know that. I was spiritually dead.

He made me spiritually alive, realized my need of a forgiveness, my need of a Savior, and he reached into my wretched ten-year-old heart and saved me on that night. It was definitely a change. It was a vivid change, not in my actions, but in my desires, and the burden was no longer there.

That was just the beginning, though. I continued throughout my teen years to read the Bible, to read Scripture as much as a teenager does, involved in so many other things. It was a priority. It was a priority, but it was a priority.

I continued to attend church, saw reports of church, but I was well into my 20s when the Lord revealed to me that I didn't know that I didn't know the depths of Scripture. I mean, I didn't know that I didn't know.

I knew the Bible stories. I knew everything. I knew the gospel message. I could share the gospel. I wanted to share the gospel, but as far as understanding the depths of Scripture, which helps me to understand the depths of who my Lord is, I didn't know that I didn't know, and he used a series of events to give me that realization of how little I truly understood about Scripture.

I didn't know what doctrine was. I knew that I didn't think I could lose my salvation. I'd been taught that in church, but I didn't know why. I couldn't take you to a passage of Scripture that talked about the perseverance of the saints.

I couldn't have done it at that point, and the Lord used some circumstances to reveal that to me. When I first heard Bible teaching, and that phrase, it rocked my world completely. I mean, I had heard sermons.

Obviously, I know that now. I'd heard sermons, and there's nothing wrong with sermons. Sermons are powerful. They're sharing the truth of God's Word, but when I heard the Bible taught through a book, one verse at a time, it completely changed my thinking, and I became hungry, because I realized that finally the Lord revealed that I didn't know that I didn't know the depths of Scripture.

I realized it, and so the journey began in my 20s of just a ravenous appetite to learn and to grow and to understand, because it allowed me to understand my Lord better. It allowed me to be able to share the blessed gospel better.

When the Lord has gone on for decades, and continues to this day, still hungry, still desiring to learn, still desiring to grow, still desiring to read the Word, and I learn and teach and learn, and I'm taught more and more every day.

You learn better about the purpose and the importance of Christ's church. All of that became very real to me. It has become real, and it continues to grow as well. So, my salvation experience, that's it, but it's more than just that.

That sanctification process began, like I said, truly began at that point where I realized I didn't understand the depths of Scripture, and continues to this day. So, that's a couple of paragraphs to give a summary of where the Lord has done with me as far as my salvation goes.

And when you said you began to hear the doctrines of God's sovereignty taught from the Scriptures, can you mention any source, any perhaps Bible teacher or church or radio or television program that was representing the doctrines of.

Sovereign grace where you heard this? Oh, sure, absolutely. It was a friend of mine who I grew up with. He grew up a Roman Catholic. We're the same age. We were born within six days of each other. So, when we were 26, the Lord saved him, and he was hungry from the beginning.

It was, of course, a couple of years later, he asked me this first question that sort of set me on the course of realizing how little I knew. He said, that parable of the sower, which one of those guys, which one of those four are truly saved?

And I couldn't answer the question. I didn't know. And so, I read the passage. That's Matthew 13. I read the Christ assessment of the parable to the disciples, and I read through that, and I still couldn't answer the question.

And here I was, I've been a believer for almost two decades, and I couldn't answer this simple question. I mean, it's obvious now, it probably obvious to most of your listeners that truly know him, Satan will snatch that truth right away, quickly, or the world and the desires of the world will rise up and it'll prove that your faith is not saving faith.

And I began to learn through study that there are different levels of faith, and there's only one level of saving faith. You know, the devils, the demons believe in Tremble, it says, and what is that, James 2 .19.

And those first three are demon faith. Well, at least the demons believe, right? But only those in that fourth case, where they produce fruit, some hundred, some sixty, some thirty-fold, are the ones that are truly saved.

I now know that. The Lord, that was the first thing the Lord did. That same guy, Jim Buds, his name, my friend from my hometown, Mount Juliet, Tennessee, he also eventually gave me a tape, a cassette tape, and it was from a guy I'd never heard of.

He'd asked me, do you ever heard of this guy named John MacArthur? I'm sure most of your listeners have heard of John MacArthur. Yes, he's been a guest on my program. Oh, wonderful, wonderful. Well, he gave me a tape of John MacArthur.

It was Matthew 7, 13, and 14, the wide and narrow gates. And I listened to that tape, and it was, I didn't even think about it. I just assumed it was from a seminary class, because it was from this pastor out in California.

So he gave me, I asked for, and he gave me some of the subsequent tapes that went through the end of chapter 7, you know, down into the wide and narrow gates, and then, of course, apart from me, I never knew you, you know, built this house upon the sand, all of those passages.

And he's teaching the Bible, verse by verse, through all of this passage of Scripture, Matthew 7. And the whole time, I think I'm listening to a seminary class. And I don't remember exactly how I found out otherwise, but this was, I found out it was just teaching from the pulpit on Sunday morning.

And this is when I realized, this is Bible teaching. This guy is teaching the Bible like I've never heard anybody teach the Bible. And I was learning things. Eventually, I got to Ephesians. I got some, you know, some of the cassette tapes on Ephesians.

And, of course, it's going through the sovereignty of God and His call of man and, you know, predestined, all those things before the foundation of the world. And I didn't agree. I didn't agree with, you know, I'd always been taught whosoever will, right?

So now, after intense study, I realized, well, you know, I've never studied this. How can I have an opinion when I've never studied it biblically? So when I started studying it biblically, that, you know, God is sovereign.

It's not. You see God in control throughout history. And so as I continue to read and continue to study on my own, I developed, based on Scripture, what I know to be true. You know, what I believe doesn't matter.

I always say, what I believe doesn't matter. What matters is what's true. And my journey is to align my beliefs with what is true. And I've come to understand and know that Scripture is inherent. It is without error, because it comes from an infallible God, a God that cannot have error, that cannot be wrong, cannot be mistaken, who is always good.

And it is sufficient. It is all I need. I don't need a vision. I don't need to hear a voice. If I hear a voice, it's probably demonic, because, I mean, there's no way you can prove where a voice is coming from.

People say that, well, God told me this. Well, how do you know it's God? So I learn all this from Scripture. And of course, in Hebrews, he tells us that he is now speaks to us through his Son, which his Son is the Word, and we know that.

So the Word is true. It's all we need. And I've learned all this over these decades, and I've learned that this book, the Bible, is inspired by God. It is God. And I must believe it. And I must incorporate these truths into my life.

And so when he says in Philippians chapter 4 or 6, you know, be anxious for nothing but everything in prayer by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving. Let your requests be made known to God, and the peace of God that passes all understanding will keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

When I read that, why would I be anxious about anything? Because I have an avenue when I feel anxious to overcome that, because he is God, and this book is true. He is working out his plan and his purpose, regardless of what situations look like.

And I should just trust that. I shouldn't be one that worries. It also, you know, with passages in Matthew and other places that warn us against worry, because worry is simply not trusting in God. And though I am not perfect, there are times that I worry, there's times that I'm anxious, but I'm reminded of these scriptures, and I go to the Lord for strength and direction and peace, because he is the God of all peace in any situation.

And as an opportunity, you know, I try to share that. And speaking of opportunity, I don't proselyte for my position. There are times that we are thrown in front of the camera, in front of the national, international media in this case, and I'm not going to proselyte, just looking for a chance to get God in there.

But when somebody, when the Lord orchestrates a specific question where I have no other answer to give than the truth from what I know to be true from his word, I have to answer that way. And that's what I've done the few times that the Lord has laid those questions on the heart of others to ask me specifically.

And so I've been completely upfront and honest with the fact that he's in control. And because of that knowledge, I am content. It doesn't mean I'm happy, but I'm always joy. My joy comes from the Lord.

It doesn't mean that I'm satisfied at him. I'm not satisfied in my human weakness. But in all situations, content, even the situation that transpired that you mentioned when we started about being, you know, our destiny, our planned event for several days in Space Station, the test flight we were on, turned into something much more than that.

And through it all, I was content because I know the Lord's running the show and he's working out his plan and his purpose. So that's going to the Lord and I appreciate the opportunity, Chris, you've given me here to try to elaborate a little bit on that, make it a little bit more clear, maybe for some ones or some people that may have heard it.

Amen. Well, we're going to our first commercial break. And if you have a question for Barry Wilmore, you could submit it to ChrisArnsett at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least. City and state and country of residence.

We only have time for a few questions, maybe one or two, actually, because Barry's going to be leaving earlier than we expected. He unexpectedly had to cut the interview in half. So we won't be taking a lot of questions today.

But submit a question as soon as you can, because you never know, yours might be one of the ones we read. And our email address is ChrisArnsett at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors, including one of our latest sponsors, Lebanon Federal Credit Union in Lebanon, Pennsylvania.

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I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession. We embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's Word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune God.

We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of scripture, loving, encouraging and serving each other as the body of Christ. In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every Sunday.

We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org. That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you.

Soon. I'm Pastor Bill Shishko of The Haven, an Orthodox Presbyterian church.

In Comac, Long Island. I hold the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program hosted by my longtime friend and brother, Chris Arnson, in the highest esteem, and I'm thrilled that you're listening today. I'm also delighted that Iron Sharpens Iron is partnering with one of my favorite resources for Reformed Christian literature for decades now, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

Well, with the economic nightmare that we're all currently enduring, cvbbs .com, I want to enable you to build a wonderful personal library of the best literature that the Reformers, the Puritans, and the great Christian minds of today have to offer, and at affordable prices.

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That's cvbbs .com, making the joy of reading the finest in Christian literature more affordable. Oh, and make sure that you tell them you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

And don't forget, cvbbs .com is now shipping worldwide. We are now back with Barry, also known as Butch Wilmore, the astronaut who was stranded in space recently, along with another astronaut, for nine months after what was originally intended to be only an eight-day mission in space, and thankfully he was rescued and is on the program today with us.

And we do have quite a number of emails with questions for my guests, but we won't have time for many of them. Before I go to the first listener question, Barry, you had already mentioned it earlier when you said that you do not experience anxiety to any serious level because of your trust in God's sovereignty over all things, and one of the main things I wanted to ask you today was about what was going through your mind as a Christian and also as a believer in God's sovereignty when eight days turned into a month to two months to three months and then finally nine months in space.

Even the most seasoned of Christians might begin to be filled with anxiety. I know that, I hate to admit it, but I am filled with anxiety over far less things that are not even life-threatening in my life, even though I share a faith with you and the sovereignty of God.

So tell us about what was going through your mind.

Okay, I'm curious. I'll do that. Let me back up, though, before we get into the months. Let's go back to when we're rendezvousing with Space Station. So we're out there affecting the rendezvous, which would eventually culminate in docking to the Space Station.

And when we started, for your listeners that may not know the story, we lost thrusters. We lost thrusters that enable us to maintain control of the spacecraft. Losing one or two or three even, we're okay, unless they're all in the same direction, all the thrusters that control, you know, that point in the same direction.

And it turns out this is the problem we had. We were losing thrusters. We were losing all aft-firing thrusters that pointed in the aft direction. And we have redundancy built into the spacecraft, and that redundancy allows us to have failures and continue.

But we got to the point to where we went, we call it fault-tolerant, so we're dual fault-tolerant. We can have two failures and still control. We actually went beyond that, though. We went to pass zero fault-tolerant into loss of our sixth degree of freedom control, where we didn't have full control of the spacecraft.

And that's not something that you would ever expect to happen. It's not something that has ever occurred in any spaceflight, human spaceflight in history. But it happened to us. And we knew, I knew that we either had to dock or we might not be able to make it back to Earth in that situation, because we didn't know why these thrusters were failing.

They just were. So docking was imperative. The thought of not docking meant that we would have to return to Earth would be our other option. And again, in that situation, I wasn't sure that we had enough control of the spacecraft to where we would be able to do that.

Now, we were a test flight. We planned for all types of contingencies. I've been, I was, I went through test spot training many decades ago, and I've done multiple things in flight tests, including with NASA, you know, aircraft flight tests, but certainly also spacecraft flight tests.

That's why I was in the position I was in, because of my background. So realizing the situation was dire is not an unfair term. I think that it was a dire situation. We either docked or we left and not sure if we could come back.

And then we have other modes of the spacecraft where we could try to get those thrusters back. But the reason they were failing, and we know this even then, was that they weren't producing the thrust that was required.

So the computers are taking them out of the out of the equation because they weren't, their chamber pressure, their thrust levels were not sufficient. They'd gone below a certain threshold that we had set.

Anyway, even during that, I was content because, again, the Lord, through the truth of his word, prepared me. I'm prepared for whatever situation. And that's not just unique to me. That's believers that know God's word and know his truth.

And it's not just his sovereignty he's in control. It's all of Scripture. You know, James tells us that this life is but a mist. It's like a vapor that fades away. And we're told to lay up for ourselves treasures in heaven, not on earth.

And those treasures are those that we have the opportunity to share and maybe that we influence. We don't say. We can't even change a heart. I can't make a dead heart alive. Only the Holy Spirit can do that.

I know that. But the Lord uses us as individuals, as vessels, to share the blessed truth of his word. You know, how will they hear if somebody tells them that also tells us in Scripture? So, fully content in that my existence was bought on the cross, my eternal hope was bought on the cross.

Jesus Christ endured all the sin that anyone that will believe, all that will believe, will ever have experienced in the punishment that I deserve. He bore that on the tree. And all of that flashes through my mind.

You know, even in that situation, realizing the dire situation we were in, I was content. And I tell that story because it sort of parlays into the next. When you're on space station and the situation isn't dire, I mean, it's not like you either dock or you may not live.

It's just different than what you planned. That is not near as severe as the one that I just, the situation I just described. And was I happy? No, I wasn't happy. I didn't stay at NASA to go long duration, spend long duration on the space station.

I had done that. I'd been the commander of the space station, you know, a decade prior. And the reason I stayed at NASA was personal reasons as far as, you know, job and employment, because I got girls, a couple of girls to put through college, but also the chance to be a part of this first flight of a spacecraft.

It's on the sixth spacecraft, human rated spacecraft that NASA has put in in the history of its, you know, existence. So this was a sixth, first flight of a spacecraft and having an opportunity to work on this.

And eventually I became the commander was the reason that I stayed. And it wasn't to do, not that what we do on space station is very important, but there are other people want to do that, qualified to do that, as am I, but that's not, that wasn't the purpose.

So anyway, that whole transition of mindset was something that I had to do because I was there and there was no changing that. And as those weeks, we were first trying to figure out if we can possibly come back on, on Starliner or not.

Those weeks turned into months, as you said, it turned into, you know, almost 10 months by the end. And you just did it at time. Trust in the Lord, regardless, no different than here. Situations in life, you know, there's many people that, though this was a very visible, obviously a visible issues transition of what we, our perception, what we thought was, you know, how life was going to be, was very visible for those that were paying attention because it was kind of a, you know, the global media.

It's very minor compared to what other people are dealing with. And I know that, I knew that. And that allowed me and helped me to put that in a proper perspective. And all that I attribute to the Lord and his grace and his mercy and his, you know, the true grace that I don't even know him at all, much less know the depths of scripture.

And I'm still learning depths of scripture and to have an attitude of being content. I'm not that at all if it's not for my Lord. And I know that. And it's humbling that he even puts you in a position to where you can realize that and live it out.

And then to have it kind of, you know, broadly sent out to where others see that as well, that's humbling as well. To him be the glory, to him be the praise, to him be the honor, because without my Lord, I am nothing.

I have no hope. I have an eternal torment as my eternal destiny if my Lord doesn't reach into my wretched sinfulness and transform me and save me and forgive me. And I know that in every moment of life.

And that is strengthening.

Amen. Well, we have a listener question. This is a first-time questioner. Denine in West Covina, California. Do you consider the all-female Blue Origin spaceflight, in quotes, a mockery of the actual space program and qualified astronauts?

Absolutely not. You know, there are some people that drive around in a $80 ,000-plus Cadillac, and other people drive around in a Volkswagen Bug. They're still getting transported. They're still doing things.

They're still involved in whatever, you know, transportation things are taking place. I don't look at one and say that one. I don't see it as a mockery. I see it as an opportunity, you know, for what's important in life, what to focus on, what is meaningful.

And some of the events of life are much less meaningful than others. And my prayer is that those that are involved in anything in life where they see it as meaningful, if that's your end-all, be-all, it's not.

The end-all, be-all is knowing the Lord. That's what, you know, in Ecclesiastes, and I think it was Solomon that wrote it, the chief end of man is to know God and honor Him and worship Him and glorify Him in all you do.

And that's what I would point anybody to. Now, I don't see that as being anything other than just another event in time. And like this thing that happened with me, that too will be forgotten eventually.

Well, Deneen, since you're a first-time questioner, you have won a free New American Standard Bible. Make sure you give us your full mailing address in California, and cvbbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, will ship the Bible out to you.

We have Seth in Hummelstown, Pennsylvania. He asked two questions. You somewhat already addressed this, but you were more discussing earlier on declaring your faith to the general public. Seth's question specifically is, did you have opportunities to share your faith with other astronauts?

Absolutely, yes. And I pray the Lord will use the word, the truth of His word that we shared,.

And transform them as well. Absolutely. Amen. The second question is, what did you do for a devotional quiet time while in space? Space Station is busy, very busy.

I did listen to some videos. I did have a Bible, a digital Bible, not a standard page Bible. And I read through some of Isaiah. I tied into my local church, and also that friend of mine, Jim Mudd, he's an elder in his church in Mount Juliet, Tennessee.

I tied into those services every week. As soon as those services were over on Sunday, it was later in the day for us because of the time difference. They'd finish around 530 in the evening. When they'd finish, I was looking forward to the next week already.

So it's not the same as being at church. But when that's all you have, the worship, I'd sit there and I'd sing along with the congregation as well and involve myself in it. Like I said, it's not the same as being there, but it's certainly a wonderful substitute when you have nothing else.

And for that, I was obviously grateful, very grateful.

Praise God. We have Andrew in Brooklyn, New York, and he's asking a question you've already just answered. He also asks, a group of people who largely hold to evolution and a belief in an old earth. I've been a space geek my whole life and cannot wait to see astronauts on the moon again.

I guess what he means is, have you had a chance to evangelize your fellow scientists who are largely holding to evolution and a belief in an old earth?

You know, I know that I will not change someone's opinion on creation versus evolution. But I am open with sharing the truth that evolution is a theory. Theories, you know, it's scientific theory, meaning it has assumptions, theory, hypothesis embedded in the quote science.

Physics, physical science, there's nothing in Scripture that contradicts physical science except for miracles. You know, science has to be repeatable. It's something that you assess and you repeat and you study.

Miracles are not repeatable. So, with the exception of miracles that we see in Scripture, like creation itself is a magnanimous miracle, there's nothing in Scripture that contradicts with physical science.

Two plus two is four. It's always four. It can't be anything other than four. That's physics. So, there are some theoretical science, however, that would differ from what God's Word says. And I just try to share with people, if we get into those discussions, you know, I can't make them understand that God's Word is absolutely true, that God says that he created and made.

By the breath of his mouth, you know, it came into existence, you know, in the day four, and he made the stars also, the magnanimous trillions of billions of trillions of gazillions of stars. He spoke into existence, he says in that day four, as if almost like an afterthought.

It's not. I'm just saying that's the way it's presented in that passage. And I can't make them believe that or understand that. That's the work of the Holy Spirit. I too thought that maybe there was a chance, this is many, many decades ago, that theistic evolution was something that might be true, that God used evolutionary, you know, evolutionary times to create and to evolve things into existence.

And then I realized, like I did many other things that I didn't know, I never studied it in Scripture. So, I went to Scripture and I studied it in Scripture, and it's not there. There is no evidence, nothing in Scripture that would, anyway, you can really, if you just use Scripture to discern Scripture, which is what we're called and how we should do it, because it's the only place you can find absolute truth is within Scripture.

If you're going outside of Scripture trying to prove Scripture, it's hard. But when you use Scripture to prove Scripture, evolution, theistic evolution is not there. God is almighty, all-knowing, omnipresent.

He's everywhere, all the time. He's the creator of all. He's more than I can even fathom or imagine. But when I start to look at the science, the true science, physics that's in existence, even biological science, even the human body and just the processes that take place in life, you've got to really have a lot of faith in evolutionary processes.

There's not any evolutionary process that's been proven. Now, there's evolution of species. You can go back to a certain species and you can grow species of dog or whatever you hand, and the Word addresses that when it talks about various kinds, from this kind and that kind.

But as far as evolution to higher beings and coming from a Big Bang into something that became a fish that somehow jumped up on land, and from there we got person, that's impossible. It can't happen. And science, true science proves that.

Theoretical science would say otherwise, but that's what it is. It has theory, hypothesis, and assumptions embedded in it. That was a long, long answer to a short question. Sorry about that.