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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 23rd day of December 2025.
I just found out moments ago that one of my heroes of the
Christian faith when I was a new believer, Joel Niederhood, who went home to be with the
Lord, that he served so faithfully for so long, four weeks ago on December 2nd, 2025.
He was 94 years of age and really blessed the body of Christ through radio, television, and through the books and articles that he had written.
And not only a brilliant, biblically faithful, Reformed brother in Christ, but also an extraordinarily humble man.
And I am glad that I had the opportunity to interview him while he was still among us on the planet
Earth and that he wrote a glowing commendation for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio after being interviewed.
And he will surely be missed. Please continue to pray for the
Niederhood family as they mourn the loss of this great man of God.
Today we have on the program a longtime friend of mine. I've known him since the 1980s, and I am thrilled that after a long absence, he has returned to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to address a book that he wrote several years after the horrific tragedy now known as 9 -11.
I believe the largest loss of life at the hands of a foreign enemy on American soil in our history.
And this book that he has written, I think, is more relevant today even than when he had first put pen to paper.
I'm speaking of my friend David Dykstra, who is an author, a retired
Reformed Baptist pastor, having had decades of experience in pastoral ministry in New Jersey and Texas.
And today we're addressing the aforementioned book, Yearning to Breathe Free, Thoughts on Immigration, Islam, and Freedom.
And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. David Dykstra.
Good to be with you, Chris. Well, Pastor David, and forgive me for calling you pastor.
I know that you're retired, but it's something that automatically comes from my tongue, knowing you for so long as a pastor.
But this book that we are addressing today, what were the compelling factors that made you say, you know,
I've got to write this book, the contents of which was stirring in your heart and mind after the aforementioned horrific tragedy of 9 -11?
If you could explain. Well, you know, after 9 -11, soon after 9 -11,
I began to really start thinking about our policies of immigration.
You know, when you had 23 Saudis that abused our freedoms here in America to attack our country,
I started thinking about Islam and I started thinking about immigration.
And there were, you know, from my general reading and from my reading of the
Bible, I came to certain conclusions. And the two books from my general reading that really impacted me and caused me to start to write, believe it or not, were
David McCullough's great biography of John Adams and also
Edmund Morris's great biography of Theodore Roosevelt, namely Theodore Rex.
And from reading McCullough's biography of Adams, I came to the conclusion that we've been at war with radical
Islam from the very beginning of our country. And then also from reading of Theodore Rex, I came to the conclusion that Teddy Roosevelt had immigration policies that were far wiser than the immigration policies that were being pursued by our country.
So it was from my general reading of those two books after 9 -11 and also from reading the
Scriptures, you know, just reading from the Scriptures, I realized that the law of God spoke to the issue of immigration and assimilation in five ways.
First of all, from the Old Testament, we learn that Israel had defined borders on all four points of the compass.
Those borders were defined. You know, we can read about that in Numbers chapter 34.
Secondly, within these borders, Israel was required to develop a distinct cultural identity, not like the other nations.
Deuteronomy chapter 4, verses 5 -8. And then
Israel had to, thirdly, Israel had to respect the borders of other nations. Deuteronomy chapter 21.
And then Israel distinguished between foreigners to be accepted and those that were to be rejected as far as who they were going to welcome and who they weren't going to welcome.
And, you know, we realize, for instance, you know, when we think about the fall of Solomon and that text that describes
Solomon's fall and all the foreign wives that he married that were identified as nations that Israel was to have nothing to do with.
So Israel distinguished between foreigners that were allowed to become sojourners in the land and foreigners that were not allowed to become sojourners in the land.
They were dangerous. And then the fifth thing, and most importantly, and this really applies to us today, is that Israel's law required assimilation of the sojourner.
They had to assimilate to the culture of Israel. I mean, we read about that, for instance, even in the
Fourth Commandment, that the Sabbath law applied even to the sojourner who stays with you.
And then also, in the Scriptures, we read that there was one law for the native and for the stranger or for the sojourner.
Numbers chapter 15, verse 16 and verse 29, a one law.
In other words, in Israel, there was no tossed salad approach where you had competing civilizations within the nation.
There was one law for the Israelite and for the sojourner who was within the nation.
And this is the distinction between our country as a melting pot or our country as a tossed salad.
What do I mean by that? Well, remember that our country has long been likened to a melting pot, but that pot has a structure to it.
And what is the melting pot of America? Well, it's our way of life.
It's our rule of law. It's our constitution. We have many, many men who have said over the years that America has—it's defined.
G .K. Chesterton once said this. He said, even that metaphor of a melting pot implies that the pot itself is of a certain shape and a certain substance, a pretty solid substance.
The melting pot must not melt. And the original shape was traced on the lines of Jeffersonian democracy.
America invites all men to become citizen, but it implies the dogma that there is such a thing as citizenship.
And so now we've come to the point in America today, over the last number of decades, where instead of the melting pot of American civilization, which is defined, we've got more of a tossed salad approach, where in a tossed salad, you know, the lettuce stays lettuce and the peppers stay peppers and the onions stay onions.
And so we have this as the effect of multiculturalism, you know, that is not something that we see from the pages of Scripture.
One law for the native and for the sojourner within Israel.
And of course, now throughout the Western nations, we see all kinds of absurdity.
You know, 85 -some Sharia courts in the U .K. operating now, where the government says that, yes,
Sharia courts can can have a place in our country.
And this is something that, you know, is just going to lead to further decline in among the
Western nations. And we're seeing it here in the United States as well. The demand for these things, whether it's in Houston or in Dearborn or in Milwaukee, we see we see these things taking place.
I just wanted to read some of the texts that leftists and those who believe in very liberal immigration policies, even to the point of desiring no borders at all.
These are the areas where leftists who no doubt do not believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, but they love to find
Scriptures that in their minds make folks like us, evangelical
Bible -believing Christians who believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, they try to make us look foolish, like hypocrites, like we don't even know our own
Bible, etc. But they love to bring up texts just like were brought up at a recent borough council meeting here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where there was a vote taken to officially make
Carlisle, Pennsylvania a sanctuary city. And one gentleman who got up claiming that he had theological training, and I don't know if he was a minister in a liberal denomination or perhaps just an apostate who fell away from the faith,
I don't know. But he would bring up texts, even texts that you include in your book, like Exodus 22, 21, you shall not wrong a stranger or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.
In Exodus 23, 9, you shall not oppress a stranger since you yourselves know the feelings of a stranger, for you also were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 24, 14, 15, and 17, you shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns.
You shall give him his wages on his day before the sun sets, for he is poor, and sets his heart on it, so that he will not cry against you to the
Lord, and it becomes sin in you. You shall not pervert the justice due an alien or an orphan, nor take a widow's garment in pledge.
And there are other texts as well that leftists love to recite along with when they're trying to promote socialism.
They'll love to go to Acts 2, 44 through 45, and all the believers were together and had all things in common, and they would sell their property and possessions and share them with all to the extent that anyone had need.
Of course, that text doesn't say anything about a government imposing a law that would force people to do this.
But what do you have to say, and of course you do have something to say about this in your book, about those favorite texts of those who want completely open borders?
Well, of course I acknowledge all those texts. And America brings in, you know, over a million people a year legally into the
United States. And so I acknowledge all those texts. Those are texts that apply to us.
But nevertheless, the previous points that I made refute the idea of no borders.
Israel had defined borders. Israel was taught not to violate the borders of other nations.
Israel had one law within its borders that all the sojourners had to abide by.
In other words, assimilation was required. And we have many examples of foreigners who came into Israel and became
Israelites. You know, in one of the most important books I think that Christians can read today to understand this is
O. Palmer Robertson's book, The Israel of God. Anybody could become an
Israelite. It wasn't a matter of blood. And so you could come into Israel, and as long as you assimilated, you became an
Israelite. You know, we read in the book of Ruth where, you know, that great statement where Ruth says to Naomi, you know, where you go,
I will go. Where you lodge, I will lodge. Your people shall be my people and your
God shall become my God. You know, we think of Rahab as well.
And so anybody could become an Israelite, but assimilation was required.
They weren't allowed to come within Israel and have their own competing civilization, which is what we're seeing throughout the
West right now. Competing civilizations, you know, within Western nations.
And this is something that you don't see in the Bible at all.
And it's foolish. It's absolutely foolish to allow this. And this is why, you know, we have to require, you know, people who come into the
United States to assimilate to our culture. And that's something that is, you know,
I got when I read Theodore Rex by Edmund Morris. This is what Teddy Roosevelt said in his day.
He said, we welcome every honest immigrant, no matter from what country he comes, provided only that he leaves off his former nationality and remains neither
Celt nor Saxon, neither Frenchman or German, but becomes an American desirous of fulfilling in good faith the duties of American citizenship.
And that's exactly what Israel had. They distinguished between foreigners that were to be welcomed and those that were proved to be a danger to the country that they were not to have anything to do with.
But assimilation was required, you know, because they had one law that governed the citizen and the sojourner who stayed with them.
You know, and when Roosevelt said we welcome every honest immigrant, how does that apply to our situation today?
I mean, if you owned a store and somebody came in and they stole something from the store, you would deem them to be a thief.
They would be dishonest. And so how about people who enter a country illegally?
We are to deem them not to be honest people. They didn't come in the correct way.
From the very beginning, coming into the country illegally, they become felons in violating federal law.
And so when Roosevelt says we welcome every honest immigrant, no matter from what country he comes.
And so we've had, you know, decades in previous administrations of a completely open border by people who hate borders that have allowed in, you know, people that have proven to be a detriment to our country.
Criminals coming in. And now we're getting it back under control. And actually, we're conforming more and more right now to what the scriptures teach about this, having clearly defined borders, distinguishing between people who ought to come in and people who would be dangerous to allow in, and requiring one law for the people who come in.
Namely, our Constitution and our rule of law in America disallowing any competing civilization and their set of laws, like we see happening in Texas and Minneapolis and in the
UK. You know, the very idea of Sharia courts being allowed.
I mean, way back in 2003, even Banner of Truth magazine had an article on the
Islamization of Europe. And even back in 2003, they were decrying the presence of Sharia courts.
And that should be something that every Christian opposes today.
Now, the title of your book, the first sentence of your title, obviously, Yearning to Breathe Free?
Thoughts on Immigration, Islam, and Freedom. Obviously, the first sentence comes from the
Emma Lazarus poem, which is etched on the plaque on the pedestal of the
Statue of Liberty, which says, Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest -tost to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door. And the leftist will obviously throw this in our face, too, if we are patriots, saying that we're being hypocritical by ignoring this hallowed poem at the base of the
Statue of Liberty. And why did you use that phrase, yearning to breathe free, question mark, in the very title of your book?
Well, I mean, that's a great poem, isn't it? Yes, it is. We welcome those who seek freedom.
But we ought not to be welcoming people who seek to overthrow our system.
They're not coming into America to pursue freedom. They're coming into America with their own agenda.
And with radical Islam, their approach has always been,
I mean, it's easy to see, you know, infiltrate, procreate, and dominate.
And that's exactly what we see. Whenever they get into sufficient numbers, they begin to dominate.
They begin to make demands of people. And they begin to make demands of whole cities.
When people pay attention to what's going on in Texas right now, with imams going to different stores and telling them what they can and cannot sell, and that, you know, these store owners then are being threatened.
And this is always the way it has been, wherever Islam has spread.
It's always infiltrate, procreate, and then dominate.
And when we think of the declining birth rates in Western Europe, you know, where, for instance,
I think in the U .K. right now, you know, their birth rate of U .K.
citizens is, you know, they don't even replace themselves.
It's so low. But among the Islamic population, you know, the birth rates are far, far higher.
And this is why the president has turned attention to Europe and said, listen, in 20 years, we might not recognize you.
You know, it may be too late. You know, one of the things that people need to read, and it's only pamphlet size, for crying out loud, it's only 29 pages long.
And that's the national security strategy of the United States of America published in 2025, just in November last month.
And one of the things that the security strategy of America right now is pointing out is that Europe is facing civilizational erasure.
This is the phrase that's used in the national security strategy. And what they're talking about here is just the declining birth rate of Europeans, of European countries, the increasing birth rate of the refugees that they've allowed in, and the ultimate civilizational erasure of Western European countries.
And this is a wonderful document to read. It's only 29 pages long. And when
I read it, you know, I said to myself, you know, this is what yearning to breathe free was all about.
This is what yearning to breathe free was all about. That there has to be, you know, warnings given as to what's going to happen if we allow unchecked immigration, imprudent immigration, if we give in to those that don't want any borders, and if we give in to multiculturalism.
And we ought not to give in to it. I remember a great statement by Thomas Sowell where he said, what multiculturalism boils down to is that you can praise any culture in the world except Western culture.
And you cannot blame any culture in the world except Western cultures.
And that's multiculturalism, isn't it? That's the tossed salad approach that doesn't believe that any culture is in any way superior to any other culture.
And we're going to pick up right where you left off after we return from our first commercial break. If anybody would like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
USA. Don't go away. We're going to be right back right after these messages from our sponsors with more of Dave Dykstra and his book
Yearning to Breathe Free. I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.
At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune
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In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every
Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.
That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.
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The Lord bless you in the knowledge of himself. Welcome back. If you just tuned us in, our guest today on Iron Trip and Zion Radio is
David Dykstra, the author of Yearning to Breathe Free, Thoughts on Immigration, Islam, and Freedom.
If you have questions, send them to ChrisArnson at gmail .com and give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.
But we do have some questions already coming in, and before I go to any of them,
I'd like you to tell our listeners how the popularity of this book, when it was first published, or not long afterward, really caught fire, as it were, and word began to spread, and this book became a very large seller at one point.
Well, I was very surprised. Here I was just a country pastor of a small church in New Jersey, and I had written this book, and I was in my study at home one morning when, to my great surprise,
I got an email from Marvin Olasky from World Magazine, and it turns out that he read the book.
He read a number of books while he was on his treadmill, and he read the book, and he contacted me and said, listen, we want to do an interview with you about your book.
Would you be willing to answer several questions for us?
And so he sent me a number of questions, and I took a morning to answer those questions, and I got a short email back from him that just said, excellent, send a picture, and tell us how many copies of World Magazine you would like to give to your family.
So that was in October of 2006, and the article in World Magazine, it was a two -page spread.
The title of the article was Cougars Among the Flock. And, of course, that was the imagery that, you know, in allowing through improper immigration policies enemies to our culture, we were allowing cougars among the flock or wolves among the flock.
And so that's how it spread. It was through that article in World Magazine.
And, of course, after that, I had a number of talk shows that invited me on.
In fact, one of the most significant was when Dr. D.
James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Presbyterian down in Florida interviewed me having read the book, and I was one of the last ones that he interviewed before he passed away.
And so Coral Ridge Presbyterian, I believe they ordered 400 copies of the book.
Wow. And they gave it out to anybody who sent in a donation to their ministry that particular month.
So word started to spread primarily through the article that I had in World Magazine.
I was contacted by a number of people that I hadn't seen in years because of that article.
Praise God. Well, we do have, let's see, we have
Giacomo in Bossier City, Louisiana. I hope
I'm not mispronouncing the name of that. Bossier City. Oh, Bossier. OK. Glad that you were there to correct me.
Giacomo says, I have a hunch you are not intending to sound racist when you are opposing multiculturalism.
Perhaps you should explain to the listeners how you are differentiating multiculturalism from multi -ethnicity.
I'm a member of a church that has members from probably over a dozen countries and of all races.
And so when we speak of multiculturalism, multiculturalism really is, it's a leftist idea that says you can never say that one culture is superior to another culture.
That's not saying, you know, and when we oppose multiculturalism, we're not opposing other races.
We're simply saying that there are cultures that are just better than other cultures.
And you can see that just by examining them.
I mean, if you go to Afghanistan, for instance, and you find a culture that accepts pederast rape of children and views women as mere chattel, you have to say that a culture that doesn't accept pederast rape of children and doesn't view women as chattel, you have to come to the conclusion that that culture that does not accept those things is superior to that culture that does.
And so this is not a racial thing at all. But I don't think that Christians in the
West should ever be embarrassed by saying that Western culture, largely developed from Christian roots, has produced more freedom and more prosperity for people than any other culture.
And so it's not a racial thing at all. It's just be discerning.
Now, how do you explain, I don't even know if you can, because it is bizarre, but you have this phenomenon where leftist politicians will claim an identity with Islam.
They will claim to be Muslims. And yet they are believing in and promoting things that if they were living under Sharia law would have them executed.
They are promoting homosexuality, transgenderism, and every other abomination associated with leftism, and yet still attempt to maintain an
Islamic identity. How do you explain that? Well, I mean, how do you explain that?
It's so contradictory that there is no explanation for that.
One of the things that I want to come back to, if I may, and that is in reading
McCullough's biography of John Adams, we've been at war with radical
Islam from the very beginning of our nation. The founding of the Marine Corps came from that, didn't it?
Well, this is how it happened historically.
Our founding document, of course, is the Declaration of Independence. But our first governing document was the
Articles of Confederation. The second and last thing, you know, governing document, of course, is the
U .S. Constitution. But under the Articles of Confederation, the states were not allowed to have a navy.
It was disallowed to have a national navy. And in the arguments for the development of the
Constitution, one of the things that Washington and others argued is, listen, these problems that we have with Muslims in the
Mediterranean require us to have a national navy.
And that was one of the arguments for the development of the U .S. Constitution. Now, what was happening in the
Mediterranean? Well, what was happening, of course, was for centuries,
Islamic raiders were going into Europe as far away as Ireland, and they were capturing
Europeans, largely Christian Europeans, and enslaving them.
And these were from the North African states. And, you know, when you read the biography of John Adams, you soon come to the realization that our founders were dealing with radical
Islam from the very beginning. And our navy and Marine Corps came into existence to stop the preying upon our merchant ships in the
Mediterranean and the eastern coasts of Africa.
You know, we think of the Marine Corps hymn, you know, From the Halls of Montezuma to what? To the shores of Tripoli.
Right? And for a long time, we were paying money, exorbitant amounts of money to just pay them off so that we could have free trade in the
Mediterranean without them capturing our merchant ships and enslaving our crew members.
But this used to happen throughout all, you know, throughout Europe. Communities would be invaded in Italy and Sicily, Sardinia, Greece by these
Muslim raiders from the Ottoman Empire. And this went on for a long time until we put a stop to it with our navy.
But people are not caught history anymore. They don't realize that we've been fighting radical
Islam from the very beginning of our country and even into the 19th century.
I mean, you know, when you read, for instance, Mark Twain, and he has this wonderful book called
The Innocence Abroad, you know, it's nonfiction, and it describes his visit to the
Middle East at the end of the 19th century. And what did he observe? Well, he observed the way the
Ottoman Empire was treating non -Muslims.
And what did Twain say in The Innocence Abroad? It's very funny.
I'll read it to you. He said, if ever an oppressed race existed, it is this one we see fettered around us under the inhuman tyranny of the
Ottoman Empire. Now, here's his funny line. He says, I wish
Europe would let Russia annihilate Turkey a little. Not much, but enough to make it difficult to find the place again without a divining rod or a diving belt.
So, you know, what was he observing? Well, you know, I mean, in 1876, the
Ottomans, the Muslims, you know, they massacred Bulgarians.
And then, you know, there's the, you know, the jihad genocide of the
Armenians by the Ottoman Turks that followed that. So this is something that Americans are not taught, that from the very founding of our country, we've been involved in with radical
Islam and fighting radical Islam. Now, thankfully, we're making a turn in America today.
You know, for instance, our director of national intelligence last week, Tulsi Gabbard.
What did she do at the Turning Point conference? She said that the most difficult thing we're facing today is the problem of Islamism.
And she was open about that. What's our secretary of state, Marco Rubio, doing right now?
Well, he's applying our president's national security strategy, and he's identifying the danger of Islamism that has made great strides in Europe and also in the
UK. You know, and there's another aspect of this, and it comes back to the civil magistrate, doesn't it?
You know, what do our confessions of faith say with regard to the civil magistrate and the basic duties of the civil magistrate?
Well, you know, our Second London Confession of Faith for We Reform Baptists says this.
And the Westminster Confession says the same thing in Chapter 23 and Paragraph 2.
So what does that teach? What do Reform Christians believe? Well, we believe that Christians can be involved in politics, that Christians can become civil magistrates.
Well, when we go from that to Step 2, and we ask the question, what does our
Bible teach about the most basic function of the civil magistrate?
What is the most basic function of the civil magistrate? Well, when we read the classic passages,
Romans 13, 1 -7, 1 Peter 2, 1
Timothy 2, you know, what do we pray for when we pray for our civil magistrates?
Well, that we might lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity, right?
What's the function of the civil magistrate? The function of the civil magistrate is to punish the evildoer and reward the good.
And so on the basis of that, we can evaluate governments, whether it be domestic city governments or governments of other nations.
And we can ask the question, are they fulfilling their basic responsibilities to their citizens?
To provide peace. And when we do that, we can name all kinds of cities in America where we can say, these mayors are not fulfilling their duty because their cities are full of crime.
And these mayors ought to be replaced. We can speak of judges who allow criminals to go back on the streets to commit new crimes.
And we can say these judges are not fulfilling the requirements of the civil magistrate and they must be replaced.
And then we can look at whole governments. And we can look at the immigration policies in other countries.
And we can say, look what you've done. Look what you have done with allowing mass migration of people absolutely foreign to your civilizational order.
And who come in not with a desire to assimilate to your culture, but with a desire to replace your culture.
We can say of those, we can ask of those governments, what have you done?
And we can pray that those governments would be replaced by people who would understand the basic function of the civil magistrate.
And thankfully, there's bright news happening today.
Increasingly throughout Europe right now, there's a development of populism that is opposed to what these leaders in these countries have allowed to happen.
And it's very encouraging to see at least 10 countries in Europe right now that are taking real steps to combat
Islamism within their own countries. Now, when they do that, of course, the left accuses them of being far right.
But we have to just accept those accusations. It's not being far right.
It's just that we want to see countries in peace.
And we don't want to see people coming into the countries that are not interested in assimilation, but only interested in developing a worldwide caliphate under Sharia.
What's the safest country in Europe right now? What's the one country in Europe right now that hasn't had one terrorist attack?
I don't know. You know what it is? No. Poland. Really? Yeah, Poland.
That's where half of my ancestry comes from. Not one terrorist attack in Poland. Now, how did that come to be?
Well, they had a border fence. And when one of their soldiers was manning the border fence, he was speared to death by a
North African immigrant, a Muslim. And so what did the government do?
Well, they made it very plain that anything happens like that, and we're going to use lethal force against you.
And they've not allowed in those who don't want to assimilate.
And as a result of that, they haven't had one terrorist attack. And we can think of other countries that are taking steps in this direction.
Now, what they're doing, of course, is they're looking at the United States and what we're doing here in the
United States. And they're slowly coming around to the fact that they have to take these steps if they're going to preserve their own cultures.
And so when we think of Italy right now, when we think of a whole host of nations right now,
Croatia, Czechoslovakia, Finland, Hungary, Sweden, Slovakia, Germany, Greece, Italy, the
Netherlands, they're all beginning to take steps, recognizing the danger they face from Islamism.
And this is encouraging. And of course, the president's security strategy has been a real shot across their bow right now, saying if you don't get this under control in 20 years, you might not have a country anymore.
And how can we rely upon you as allies if you allow this civilizational erasure, which is the phrase that is being used?
And so, you know, one of the things that has happened because of leftist influence is this suicidal empathy.
Having empathy for people to the point that you allow people within your country that do not want to assimilate.
Now, of course, the Emma Lazarus poem is wonderful. We should welcome anybody who yearns to breathe free of any race or any culture that wants to come to America, that yearns to leave the slavery behind and wants to be free.
They should all, of course, be welcomed. Into our country, but we should not be allowing into our country those who refuse to be assimilated and who come in with another agenda.
And that is to develop a worldwide caliphate under Sharia law.
Well, we have to go to another commercial break. It's our midway break. And once again, if you have a question for David Dykstra about immigration,
Islam and freedom, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
As always, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence. And before I forget to tell
Giacomo in Bossier, Louisiana. Is that how you pronounced it? Bossier City.
Bossier City, right. Please give us your full mailing address so that we can mail you a free copy of the book that we have been discussing,
Yearning to Breathe Free, Thoughts on Immigration, Islam and Freedom, Compliments of our friends at Solid Ground Christian Books.
And if you want to find out more about what they have to offer, go to solid -ground -books .com.
Solid -ground -books .com. Thank you very much, Giacomo. And we have more folks waiting to have their questions asked and answered.
So we'll get to as many of you as possible. We'll be right back after these messages.
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today and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Before I return to my absolutely fascinating conversation with David Dykstra about his book,
Yearning to Breathe Free, Thoughts on Immigration, Islam, and Freedom, I just have some reminders for you.
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and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address to send in a question to David Dykstra as we continue to discuss his book
Yearning to Breathe Free, Thoughts on Immigration, Islam, and Freedom. And we have a listener named
Terry in Amagansett, Long Island, New York. And Terry says, how would you envision a government prohibiting
Muslims from becoming citizens of our country when there are many different kinds of Muslims, just like there are many different kinds of people who claim to be
Christian. Some are not, and some are just different from us. So how would you go about doing this, at least in your vision?
Well, I certainly don't have a vision of disallowing Muslims to become citizens. I don't have that vision at all.
Muslims ought to be allowed to become citizens of the United States. The only caveat to that is that they need to leave
Islamism behind. They cannot embrace radical
Islam. That goal is to overthrow our country and replace it with an
Islamic caliphate. Now, there are many, many Muslims in America that do not live up to the tenets of Islam.
Islam has never been a religion of peace. It's been a totalitarian ideology that is intent on conquering and causing people to embrace
Sharia law. They divide the whole world into two parts, the house of war and the house of peace.
And we are in, any non -Muslim is part of the house of war. And it's the function to bring them into the house of peace, that is to bring them into Islam where they're submissive to Sharia law.
That's Islam. That's not, that's the basic tenets of Islam.
Now, there are many Muslims that don't believe that. And they're, they don't abide by the tenets of Islam when it comes to that totalitarian mindset.
And of course, if we find out that people are willing to recognize that in our country there's one law and they must assimilate, they can become citizens, like anybody else can become citizens.
But I've never advocated limiting citizenship to only non -Muslims.
I hope that's very, very clear. So are you saying then that Muslims who you envision as being welcomed as immigrants, legal immigrants into our country to establish citizenship would have to be in some realm or some level nominal
Muslims? Because if you're saying that honest, orthodox
Islam, according to the Koran and the Hadith, mentions these things that you just did about conquering and setting up and establishing
Sharia law to persecute others. How else could we include Muslims as those we welcome unless they are nominal of some kind?
Yeah, and there has to be ideological exclusion.
I mean, when G .K. Chesterton came to America for the first time, he was asked if he was an anarchist.
Now, why was he asked that question? Well, because anarchists back in the early 20th century had assassinated our president, one of our presidents.
And in the early 20th century, they were the equivalent of what is
Antifa today throughout the world. And so when
Chesterton came to America for the first time, he was asked, are you an anarchist? Well, the question was asked of him because we were practicing ideological exclusion and we don't want anarchists in America.
I mean, who would want an anarchist in America? You know, an absolute nihilist who wants to overthrow authority here in America.
We see enough of that in Portland. We see enough of that in Seattle. You know, we can look and we can observe and we can see where these things lead to.
So in Roosevelt's time, you know, there was the practice of ideological exclusion.
And what we see right now under the current administration is a welcome return to that.
When we have our Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, for instance, making a very, very plain that student visas are not a right for people to have.
And we're going to question you and we're going to look into your social media, what you post on social media.
And if we find out that you're posting things on social media that are radical, you know, we're not going to give you a student visa.
Or if when you come into the United States and we find out that you're taking part in demonstrations calling to globalize the intifada, we're going to revoke your student visa and send you out of the country.
Now, all these things are just prudent. And all these things are biblical in the sense that, again and again,
I go back to this. Israel had defined borders. Israel had one law that applied to the
Israelite and to the sojourner. There was not competing civilizations allowed within Israel.
And what we're seeing now, of course, is a return to that.
And one of the problems that we have, of course, with a temporary protective status of people who have been allowed into the country, we've allowed many, many people who have not been adequately vetted.
We don't know who they are because many of them come from countries where it's impossible to vet them.
In order to vet people, you have to have information. And if you don't have the information, how can people be adequately vetted?
And why should we allow people into the country that will pose a clear and present danger to the country?
We should be allowing in people whom we can vet and people that we are convinced are going to assimilate and not allow in people who are intent on non -assimilation and just using our country to develop their own cultural enclaves within our culture.
Like we're seeing in Dearborn, Michigan, like we're seeing in Houston, Texas, like we're seeing in Milwaukee, where people openly declare that they don't want to assimilate.
And thankfully, we're seeing, through the President's strategic strategy and the implementation of that strategy by our
Secretary of State, we're seeing a welcome return to sane immigration policy in America that truly welcomes people who want to be here and who do yearn to breathe free, but that has standards that have to be met for them to be welcomed.
Well, thank you, Terry, for the excellent question. Please make sure you give us your full mailing address in Amagansett, Long Island, and we will have a free copy shipped out to you of Yearning to Breathe Free, Thoughts on Immigration, Islam, and Freedom, Compliments of the
Generosity of Solid Ground Christian Books, solid -ground -books .com.
And we have Ernie in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Hi, Chris.
What does Pastor Dykstra think about Reformed church elders participating in the church outreach and support of Muslims that while taking part in English as a second language, etc.,
provided by the church, continue to attend mosques under the teaching of his imams?
I know of an elder who said he would have no problem in driving them to their
Islamic service. First of all, it's not
Lancaster, all right? Well, New Yorkers pronounce it that way, sorry.
Yeah, yeah. It's Lancaster. Right. And even Carlisle is not pronounced
Carlisle by natives. It's Carlisle. It's Lancaster.
And, you know, I, you know,
I struggle with that question.
You know, would I drive someone to a mosque?
I'd want to learn a little bit more about that mosque. You know, we have countries in Europe right now,
Italy comes to mind, that are deporting radical imams.
They're not allowing them to stay because they're listening to what they preach.
And they're deporting imams. It's not because they don't believe in freedom of religion.
It's because they don't want in their country people that are trying to overthrow their culture.
And before I ever drove anybody to a mosque, I would want to know what that imam is teaching at that mosque.
And, of course, the evangelization of Muslims require that we challenge their beliefs.
That we eventually get around to letting them know that we believe that Muhammad is a false prophet.
And even think of this, Chris. You know, think about how the
Apostle John corrects people with thoughts of antichrist.
What does he do? He's the only one in the
New Testament, in his epistles, that speaks specifically of antichrist.
You know, Paul speaks of the man of lawlessness, but he doesn't call him antichrist. But what does the
Apostle John do with his whole doctrine of antichrist?
Well, he comes with a corrective. And he says, you have heard that antichrist is coming.
But even now, antichrist is in the world. So he wants his readers to know, stop thinking about the future with regard to antichrist, and think about the present.
And then he also says, stop thinking about one antichrist, and think about the many antichrists.
Those are the two correctives that the Apostle John gives us about the subject of antichrist.
He wants us to think of the present. He doesn't want us to think about only one.
He wants us to think about the many antichrists. Now, when you pay attention to those texts in the epistles of John, you need to ask the question, what is one of the most virulent expressions of the spirit of antichrist in the world today?
Not the only one. But what is one of the most virulent expressions of antichrist in the world today?
And any sane Christian would have to say, Islam. Islam and its teachings.
I don't know how you can come to any other conclusion. Other than that, it's not the only one. You know, the
Apostle John speaks of apostate Christians who, they went out from us, but they were not really of us, because if they were of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out so that it may appear that they're not of us.
In other words, they're not real Christians. You know, we think of anybody who denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh as the being of the spirit of antichrist.
How can anybody deny, with the record of Islam, how can anybody deny that it is a modern -day expression, not just a modern day, but going back centuries of the spirit of antichrist in the world today?
So would I drive a person that we're teaching English as a second language to a mosque now?
I wouldn't, not unless I knew something about the imam and what the imam of that mosque is teaching people.
And also, we would be trying to evangelize Muslims, and the only way you can really evangelize a
Muslim is by challenging Islam itself and bringing them the gospel and revealing that Muhammad is not a prophet.
He's a false prophet. By the way, Ernie, you have also won a free copy of Yearning to Breathe Free, Thoughts on Immigration, Islam, and Freedom.
So make sure you give us your full mailing address in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, so that can be shipped out to you.
Once again, we thank Solid Ground Christian Books for providing us with a limited number of free giveaway copies of this book.
And if those of you who are listening to this program via a recording later on, other than the date of its live broadcast, go to solid -ground -books .com
to find out more about this book and everything else they offer at Solid Ground Christian Books. It's solid -ground -books .com
Let's see here. We have Byron and Circe Arkansas.
And Byron says, one of the things that makes the whole deal with policing
Muslims who come into this country to see if they have ill will towards our system of government and way of life is the fact that there is a teaching called taqiyyah among Muslims where they are given the freedom to lie to those who are not
Muslims to achieve their ends. How could we possibly know that anyone is telling the truth if they are a
Muslim and entering into our country under false pretences? Well, of course, that is a real problem.
That questioner has put his finger on a very important question because that is a reality.
Muslims are allowed to use deception in dealing with the
House of War. And so that makes vetting something that's very, very important.
And when we have, for instance, right now, we've got many, many people that have come into America from Islamic countries, there has to be some sort of questioning.
And yes, there are limitations. That's a very real problem that that questioner has mentioned.
I would encourage people to inform themselves about the whole subject.
You know, there's some books I want to recommend for people other than mine.
I really want to recommend Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book, Infidel.
She's now become a Christian. But her book, Infidel, now she's a
Somali, and she went to the Netherlands, and in her book,
Infidel, she exposed Islam.
She has to have protective, you know, people around her 24 7.
But that is a very, very important book, and you can listen to her in interviews, and what have you.
I'd also like to recommend Meghan Basham's excellent book,
Shepherds for Sale, and particularly Chapter 2 in Shepherds for Sale entitled
Illegal Immigration. And Meghan Basham, as a very, very fine investigative journalist, just proves in this chapter how
Soros -based money has been used to co -opt evangelical leaders on the subject of immigration, and how the left has taken control basically of many evangelical leaders in America on the subject of immigration, and she blows the whistle on that.
And so this book, the subtitle is How Evangelical Leaders Traded the
Truth for a Leftist Agenda, and it's very well written and very well argued, and that's a book that I would greatly recommend.
I would also recommend The Myth of Islamic Tolerance by Robert Spencer.
I'd also like to recommend The Legacy of Jihad by Andrew Boston.
And then a number, I can think of a number of books,
I've got quite a selection of books in my library on this subject, and I would just recommend that people inform themselves of it.
You know, and one of the things that we need to listen to at least is we need to listen to our veterans, our veterans who have served in Afghanistan and served in Iraq, and listen to their personal experiences and also read their books.
And because they lived, you know, in Islamic cultures.
And we should honor them by listening to them. What were their experiences, you know, when they were at a forward operating base in Afghanistan, close to the
Pakistani border? What were their experiences with Afghanis?
We need to listen to them and we need to read their books about that.
So, anyway, those are some recommendations I would make for folks today. Great.
Well, we are going to our final break. And we will back shortly
David Dykstra. if you have a question,
I would submit it immediately because we are rapidly running out of time. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Don't go away. We'll be right back. I'm Dr.
Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim
Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.
For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net
that's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711 that's 631 -696 -5711
Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in His sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.
It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.
Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,
Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.
One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,
Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.
Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the
Hanover Presbyterian Church, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief pastor of the
Hanover Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,
Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.
For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com
That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com Or call 678 -954 -7831
That's 678 -954 -7831 If you visit, tell them
Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland, sends you.
Greetings, this is Brian McLaughlin, President of the SecureCom Group, and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.
SecureCom provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches, commercial properties, and much more.
We can be reached at SecureComGroup .com That's SecureComGroup .com
But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMaster, of New Hyde Park Baptist Church on Long Island.
Doug McMaster is here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.
In the film Chariots of Fire, Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt
God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.
I sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.
That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Savior who died for sinners, and that God forgives all who come to Him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area, or Queens, or Brooklyn, or the
Bronx, in New York City. For details on New Hyde Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.
That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.
That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New Hyde Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning, and being shaped by God's word, and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.
God bless you. Puritan Reformed is a
Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.
Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.
We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan Reformed is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God, so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.
We sing the psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt
Christ. This is Pastor David Reis of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.
Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.
Puritan Reformed Church. Believe. Build. Fight. PuritanPHX .com
And don't forget, folks, this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates.
If you're the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the
United States, please call my very dear longtime friend and brother in Christ, Daniel D.
Buttafuoco, attorney at law at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit his website, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.
Please make sure you tell Dan Buttafuoco that you heard about his law firm, Buttafuoco and Associates, from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Also, folks, please do not forget, if you're a man in ministry leadership, you are invited to the biannual free
Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon, which will be held, God willing, on Thursday, March 5, 2026, 11 a .m.
to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania. And our featured guest speaker for the second time is
Dr. Conrad Mbewe, one of my favorite preachers of all time. He is pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and founding chancellor of African Christian University.
But not only is he a preacher, he is also admission free, and your lunch free, and your opportunity to hear
Dr. Mbewe preach free. Every man that attends, as always, will receive one and perhaps two heavy sacks of free brand -new books, personally selected by me and donated by generous
Christian publishers all over the United States and United Kingdom. All of that absolutely free of charge.
If you attend, and again, this is for men and ministry leadership only, if you would like to register, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com and put
Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line. Also, let me not forget that the night before the luncheon on Wednesday, March 4th,
Dr. Conrad Mbewe will also be preaching at the church where I'm a member, Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, at 7 p .m.
And that, unlike the Pastor's Luncheon, is open to everyone, men, women, and children, are all welcome to that event on Wednesday, March 4th, 7 p .m.,
at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania. For more details on Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle and how to get there, go to trbccarlisle .org.
And we have—let's see, I was just looking at the name here of another listener.
Oh, yes, we have Todd in Fremont, Nebraska, who asks,
Where do we draw the line when it comes to any kind of prohibition of people to become citizens of the
United States, when there are many false religions and some who intend harm upon Christians and others, like Hindus, or even leftists who are already
American citizens who believe in murdering unborn children? How can we possibly single out
Muslims for this prohibition? Well, I'm not singling out
Muslims. You know, we're just talking about the reality that immigration policies of people coming into the
United States should focus on people that would— who want to be free, and who would benefit the
United States, and not to be people who would be intent on bringing our country down.
why did Chelsea Gabbard bring up, for instance, last week at the Turning Point conference, why did she single out
Islamism? Why does Secretary Rubio, Marco Rubio, single out the specific danger of Islamism?
Well, it's because that is the greatest danger in the world today that Europe is facing and that the
United States is facing. And all I'm calling for and all
I have ever called for is that we recognize that we can learn from the past, we can learn from previous generations who did a better job than previous administrations that we've had over the last number of decades when it comes to immigration, and we can learn from the scriptures.
You know, we can learn principles of general equity, as our confessions put it, from the civil code of Israel.
And so what do we learn? I go back to that. What do we learn? Israel, in other words,
God designed borders. Borders are God's idea.
Israel had clearly defined borders. Israel was not to violate the borders of neighboring nations.
Within Israel, there was to be one law. The sojourner to live in Israel had to assimilate to Israel.
Those are the foundational things that we learn from the scriptures.
What is the role of the civil magistrate? It is to provide peace and tranquility to its people.
The civil magistrate fails in that role when it allows into the country, whether they be anarchists or whether they be
Islamists. The civil magistrate fails in its God given role by allowing people into the country who are going to pose a danger to the country.
Those are biblical things that we can build on.
And thankfully, we can see that there is a return to these things now.
I would very much encourage everyone to read that 29 page national security strategy of the
United States and particularly the warning that is given to the
European nations at this time, that they need to reverse course.
Thankfully, many are paying attention to that. There is a growing number of people in Europe that are recognizing the danger and are taking action.
Of course, there are others who are fighting this development of national populism.
And so, you know, the United States did not rescue Europe in two world wars.
First world war and second world war in order for European countries to imprison people on the basis of social media posts.
And those are things that are happening today. You know, to protect this mass migration, that these draconian laws are being passed, that you can never say anything negative about Islam.
And if you do, you can go to prison. People going to prison in Britain right now because they dare to say something negative about the migrants that have come into the country, the
Pakistani rape gangs, that proliferate in Britain today.
And the lack of freedom that, the lack of freedom of speech, the lack of freedom of religion, where even in Canada right now, where a law is being passed to make it illegal to read certain passages of scripture that people might find to be offensive to them.
And the West needs to wake up to these things. And again, I go back to that.
We did not rescue Europe in World War I and in World War II in order for people to be in prison today because of something that they posted on Facebook.
Well, I have had such a wonderful time interviewing you, brother. I look forward to your return to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
Don't forget, folks, you can find out more about yearning to breathe free thoughts on immigration,
Islam, and freedom at the publisher's website, solid -ground -books .com.
I want to thank everybody for listening today. I hope you all have a safe and joyful and healthy and Christ -honoring
Christmas, and I want you all to remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater