January 13, 2021 Show with Dr. Robert E. Brunansky on “A Biblical Antidote to Pessimism in Very Dark & Disturbing Days”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 13th day of January 2021, and I am thrilled to have a very first -time guest today on the program.

His name is Dr. Robert E. Bernanski, and he is pastor of Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

I first became familiar with Dr. Rob when I saw him as a fill -in host for Dr.

James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. On the Dividing Line program, this was back in December, when

I heard him do a phenomenal program on why Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix had refused to shut down amidst the mandates and hysteria predominantly being perpetuated by those in political power on the left and those that fall into line whenever the left barks their orders.

And I was so impressed by that program that Dr. Rob did on the

Dividing Line that I posted the link to that, and I'm sure if you go to AOMIN .org,

that's the website for Alpha and Omega Ministries, you can find with a search engine,

I'm sure, all of the occasions, the programs during which

Dr. Rob was the fill -in host for Dr. James R. White. And just for your information, since you'll be likely using a search engine, his last name is spelled

B as in boy, R -U -N -A -N -S -K -Y. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Shepherds Iron Radio, Dr.

Robert E. Bernanski. Appreciate you having me. Hey, it's great to have you on, and today we are going to be discussing, and I think a very appropriate theme, a very timely theme, a very necessary theme, a biblical antidote to pessimism in very dark and disturbing days.

But before we enter into our conversation on that subject, Dr. Rob, please let our listeners know about Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

Yeah, thanks. Desert Hills has been a church here in the North Valley for over 50 years, and we started off and spent just a little bit over our 50th anniversary as part of the

Evangelical Free Church of America, and in May of this year, we left the

EFCA, and so now we're a non -denominational Bible church preaching the

Word of God, ministering the Gospel to unbelievers, and seeking to glorify

God through the ministry of the church. And so the church has been growing quite a bit, and you can find our church on Facebook, you can go to YouTube and find some of our sermon series on social justice,

Gospel of Luke, we're going through Ephesians right now, I did a 12 -part series on eschatology for those wanting to dig into that a little bit more, and you can find that on our

YouTube channel. So I've been out here 10 years, and it's been a real joy to be a part of the ministry here at Desert Hills.

I'm assuming that since my dear friend of many years, going back to 1995,

Rich Pierce, who is the president of Alpha and Omega Ministries, where Dr. James R. White is the apologist,

I'm assuming that since Rich Pierce is a member of your church, that you are theologically Reformed? We are, yeah, we are theologically

Reformed, and that was not always the case for Desert Hills, but over the last 10 years as I've been there, the church has moved in that direction, and we are voting on a new statement of faith here in 18 days that will put that into our official confession statements at the church.

Great. And I'm just dying to know, I'm sure the curiosity has been raised even amongst our listeners, your series on eschatology, what stance do you take on that very controversial issue?

Yeah, you know, it surprises a lot of people. I mean, I graduated from the Master's Seminary, and so people generally expect me to come down on a dispensational eschatology, but I find myself more in agreement with the covenantal view of Scripture, and you know, four days a week

I'm probably amillennial, and three days a week I'm probably covenant or historic premillennial, depending on, you know, what passage

I'm reading. It's not something that I have a real strong stance on. I see strengths and weaknesses for both of those views.

You know, I think there's a lot more weaknesses in dispensationalism and postmillennialism.

I see a lot of weaknesses there. I understand why people hold them, you know, and at Desert Hills, we don't have one of those positions is not enshrined in our confession, so, you know, we have people all over the map on those questions, but more on the amill or historic premillennial side.

Yes, and even though we are going to be discussing a biblical antidote to pessimism, you still have the eschatology of historic premillennialism, which many folks would say is a pessimistic view.

That's right, you can still have the hope of the Puritans, even if you're not a postmillennial. And, by the way,

I'm going to give our listeners our email address right now in the event that you'd like to join us with a question of your own.

We are discussing, as I said earlier, a biblical antidote to pessimism in very dark and disturbing days.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And I can understand, since our theme involves these very dark and disturbing days, that you may have an issue that has brought you to the depths of despair and depression that may lead you to want to remain anonymous.

I understand that. Perhaps even you have come to disagree theologically, doctrinally, or in practice with your own pastors or your denomination, and you'd rather remain anonymous.

Or perhaps even you're a pastor, and you've come to disagree with your own elders or your own denomination or fellowship or the predominant number of folks in your congregation, and you'd rather not make this public yet.

I can understand these things would be reasons to remain anonymous, but if it's just a general question on the

Bible, on theology, on doctrine, on what will motivate optimism in very dark and disturbing days, then please, if it's just a general question, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

But we have a tradition here, Dr. Rob, on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, whenever we have a first -time guest, we like to have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include the type of religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and what kind of providential circumstances our

Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. Yeah, great.

Well, I grew up in a Christian family and don't have any memory of life not knowing about Christ, not attending church, you know, just from the time

I was a baby, I was sprinkled in a Reformed church as an infant, and you catch my statement there, you know, since I'm Credo Baptist, I don't consider that a baptism, but that gives you a little bit of the, you know, the

Reformed background in my life growing up in that tradition, and I remember,

I don't remember a time in my life when I wouldn't have professed faith in Christ.

I do remember when I was young, probably in fourth or fifth grade, feeling a great weight of my own sin, and I was playing in my room and looking at my baseball cards and sorting those out, and at nine or ten years old, as I was playing,

I was very restless and could not really focus on what I was doing because of concern that God would judge me for my sin.

And so I sought out my mom, and she was in the kitchen, and I told her what

I was thinking about, and she explained the Gospel to me, and I believed that, and we prayed together, and you know, as a kid,

I didn't jot down the date or time, it was, you know, I went back on my way and continued to grow, you know, from that point on.

And so nothing outwardly or in the worldly sense very shocking or radical about that, but theologically, we understand that's still

God raising somebody who is dead to life and the miracle of regeneration.

And throughout my life, I've seen the hand of God in sanctification, helping me grow in understanding of His Word and in my walk with Christ, and so I'm very grateful for that testimony and for the presence of God in my life, throughout my life, from the earliest days.

Now, how did you realize, specifically, in your Christian walk, that God had given you a call to enter into pastoral ministry?

Yeah, you know, initially, I went to seminary and, you know, right out of college, and the catalyst for that was being part of a campus movement where the

Word of God was largely absent from the ministry. I remember the messages that we would have in the

Bible studies on Myers -Briggs and personality charts, and being very bothered by that, and at that time,

I was reading a lot of Spurgeon, listening to a lot of MacArthur, and found it difficult to find solid

Bible teaching, and so there was some level of arrogance, where I thought

I could be the answer to that problem, and didn't really understand what ministry even meant at that point, but I went to seminary after that at Masters for my

MDiv, and then about halfway through seminary, I was listening to Steve Lawson at the Shepherds Conference and John Piper on suffering at that same

Shepherds Conference. It occurred to me for the very first time the significance of being called to ministry, and it wasn't a call to be somebody standing on a platform under a spotlight speaking to people, but it was a call to take up your cross and follow

Christ and suffer for the good of His people, and, you know, there was just a radical change in mindset and dedication and commitment and study that took place during that Shepherds Conference in my life, and so I think that's when

God called me to ministry, was in that experience, and I had people that knew me before and after that,

I hadn't shared that with them, and they said, you know, something changed, you know, right around this time in your approach to your thinking about ministry in your life, and something happened to you, and yeah, as a matter of fact,

I think that's when God called me into ministry. So that's how that took place, and I've been seeking to honor the

Lord through that since then. Praise God. Well, as I said, this is a very timely and,

I think, necessary issue to address as brothers in Christ today, a biblical antidote to pessimism in very dark and disturbing days.

I have been quite depressed not only due to personal matters in my own life lately that have been magnified, but also

I've been down in the dumps, as it were, discouraged, angry about the things that seem to be angering and frustrating a lot of folks in the body of Christ, especially those from our theological point of view, although we are definitely not a monolith, there are people who

I think are part of the problem that is causing the frustration and depression, but we see, many of us, a new regime and government which will be reigning here in the

United States where we fear those precious rights and privileges we have as Christians and even as citizens are going to, one by one, be stolen from us.

We fear that this election itself, and elections, plural, actually, that have taken place, many of us fear that they have been wrought with fraud and deception and theft, and we have seen people who raise objections to the elections being viewed as nut jobs, as being morons, we see people who were once, at some level, political heroes of ours, who seem to have turned their backs on us as voters.

There's a lot of things going on that have brought people to the depths of depression, even people who are having a much harder time than I am having, people who have lost their careers, their livelihoods, their businesses because of leftist totalitarian governments mandating their businesses to shut down for prolonged periods of time with no real scientific basis for doing so, and of course there are even loved ones who have perished, audience members that are listening to this, perhaps, whose loved ones have perished because of the coronavirus, most typically older folks, so there's all kinds of things going on in the dawn of 2021 that are leading many of us to despair, and I just want you to help us through this biblically, why

Christians should never be felt as if that all hope is lost, and just wallowing in depression and discouragement is really not the answer for a bible -believing

Christian, even though that is a temptation for many of us and a that many of us commit.

Yeah, I think that's a huge temptation to become discouraged, to become anxious and worried, and one of the most difficult things about it,

I think, for many Christians is that in the middle of all these things that are happening, they've lost their spiritual community, they've lost their church.

You think about how many churches are closed and how many churches that are open are actually functioning the way the body of Christ is intended to function.

You know, we see, my wife and I, we like to watch the live stream of churches on Sunday afternoon, you know, we'll probably watch 15 or 20 different live streams just to see what's going on in different churches around the valley and around the world, and you see some of these churches where people aren't anywhere near each other, you know, they're all masked up and they're far apart from each other, and they're there, but they're there and they're out.

There's no fellowship, there's no human connection, and so, you know, then you add in the fact that there are people who are sick and suffering and businesses being closed and the mental health toll that this has taken on people, and, you know, it's really a situation that is primed to discourage people.

I mean, that is the, I think that's one of the aims, you know, I think it is designed to crush the spirit of people and to make people submissive and feel subservient to the authorities, too, because we see the power expanding in government and, you know, the big tech sector and all that, you know, and it's just to beat people down.

And so, you know, I think when we look at Scripture, one of the passages that I go to with people on this is in 1

Peter 4, verse 12, where Peter says to the readers, don't be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you.

And it always seems like when suffering comes, we're surprised.

You know what I'm saying? Even though right here in the passage, Peter says, don't be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you.

Our initial gut reaction is almost always to be surprised.

And so we're just not really prepared mentally or spiritually for these negative events because we think that things are going to go different than they are.

And so as we think through these dark and difficult days, I think one of the first things as believers we need to really wrap our minds around is none of this should surprise us.

And we should be surprised when things go well for Christians in this world, and when things are easy.

I mean, the last 200 plus years in this country, that should shock us.

The fact that some of those rights and privileges are being rooted out should not surprise us at all.

And so I think we're getting the right mindset is the absolute first necessary first step that if we want to follow

Christ, suffering is part of that. There's no escape from that.

And so we shouldn't be surprised. But that does seem to be the common reaction that I find with people.

And that surprise leads to outrage, anger, and people are afraid.

But if you expect it, when it happens, it doesn't really make you afraid because you expect it.

It doesn't mean that it's pleasant. I think there's that part of it that I know for me, thinking about family members and things like that, that sacrificed in the military for the freedoms that we have.

I sacrifice could end up being for nothing. And there's things that are good about the way this country was that we should...

It's understandable we would be upset about those things being lost, but at the same time,

Scripture is clear that there's nothing for us as believers that should be surprising about it.

And in fact, as Peter goes on, he says, but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing.

And so, you know, the opposite of pessimism here, right, is joy.

And that's a challenge. That's a challenge for me when

I think about a week from today and the inauguration and all of that. Rejoicing, you know, having joy through all of that.

And, you know, I think that's where the rubber meets the road in our faith.

When we look at a text like this, how does it impact us? You know, is it just words on a page or is it something

I'm going to take to heart and that's going to transform my mind? Yeah, when you were talking about how the

Bible is clear that we should not be surprised at all when trials come our way, either individually or as the body of Christ as a whole,

I can remember when I was a new Christian and the church where I was saved and where I was a member, we were going on and on for years with no significant problem.

And I started to actually wonder, in fact, I think I may have even told my pastors at the time, I think that we as a church are in for a crisis and a trial or trials, plural, because I can't believe that the devil intends to leave us alone while we are prospering numerically, growing in droves.

People were coming into the church and joining the church in membership in numbers that required us to begin looking for a new building.

There were no deaths for quite a number of years, no public scandals, no overt, scandalous, wicked sins that we were aware of being committed by members.

And I just kept thinking, this is too good. And although I was expecting trials to come, the specific trials that came were a shock and were a surprise.

So it can be both, can it? I mean, we could be fully expecting trials and tribulations, but sometimes the forms in which they come are a shock.

That's right. Yeah, you guys probably were almost all post -millennial. That's one of the things that my wife and I are talking about, the difficulties we've just faced, even at Desert Hills.

Some of those things, we knew there would be conflict, we knew there would be difficulties, but we never expected it to come from this direction or, you know, to take this form.

And then, of course, you can look at Scripture and go, well, why didn't we expect that? You know, we can see that on the pages of Scripture in different places.

But yeah, I mean, that is, I think that is the tactic of the enemy to create confusion.

We know that's not, you know, God's tactic, and if we're in the word, he'll sort through that for us and guide and direct us.

But, you know, the devil is going around like a lion looking for someone to devour.

In fact, we're going to pick up right where you left off there when we come back from our first station break. Absolutely. If anybody would like to join us on the air again, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N, gmail .com. Please, as always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more of Dr. Rob Bernanski.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens Jr. of the

Church of Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.

Jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in Italy used for my 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a

French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible I used as a gift. The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather, making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to ptlbiblerebinding .com.

That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Was your business shut down during the

COVID -19 pandemic depriving you of earning any money causing you to default on your rent as you try to survive without income?

Maybe you've had to close your doors for good. The good news you thought was that you purchased business interruption insurance as a part of your business liability policy with a major insurance company who told you they are a good neighbor or that you would be in good hands.

You filed a claim only to be told that it was denied due to the pandemic exclusion clause.

The pandemic exclusion? Since 2006, most insurance companies added this clause to enable them to deny your income loss claims in the event of a worldwide pandemic.

Do not give up. No matter what state you live in, call Buttafuoco & Associates now at 1 -800 -669 -4878.

Buttafuoco & Associates is a part of a large multi -district litigation and they are working with lead counsel to bring what they believe will be a successful lawsuit for these claims.

It is the best way for you to proceed. There's absolutely no risk to you. You do not have to pay them out of pocket and there is no fee unless you recover on your claim.

You need to call 1 -800 -669 -4878 right now.

Trust a law firm where the attorneys at one of the largest business firms on Long Island, New York are sending their own clients for representation during this lawsuit.

Buttafuoco & Associates, here to help business owners rebuild their lives in the wake of the pandemic.

Call 1 -800 -669 -4878. This is

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

Oh Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

Christian perspective. Try World Now at no charge for 90 days by going to getworldnow .com.

That's getworldnow .com. I rely on World because I trust the reporting.

I gain insight from the analysis, and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio, and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

There's no obligation and no credit card required. Visit getworldnow .com

today. Also check out World News Group's podcast, The World and Everything in It, at wng .org

forward slash podcast. That's W for world, N for news,

G for group, dot org, forward slash podcast. I'm Dr.

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of Sovereign Grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

that's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711, that's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Are you tired of looking for the silver bullet when it comes to health and wellness? Are you frustrated with the medical status quo, which masks symptoms and doesn't treat the root problem of sickness?

More importantly, are you looking for one of the most unique books ever written, which gives you safe, low cost, and proven options to regain your health the way

God intended? Then look no further than my new book, Health for All of Life, a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations.

Hi, I'm Jason Garwood, and I'm a husband, father, pastor, and writer whose passion for helping people led me to write this book.

If 2020 has proven anything, it's that big pharma, big tech, and big government knows nothing about how to treat people naturally without poisoning them with synthetic drugs and experimental vaccines.

But what if God has given us a better way? What if we can take the Christian worldview found in the Bible and apply it to health and wellness?

My book, Health for All of Life, does just that. You can find this exciting new book on Amazon. Pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family.

Give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth. And Jason and Garwood, whose voice you just heard promoting his book,

Health for All of Life, a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations, he is going to be our guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on Friday the 22nd of January, so you might want to mark your calendars for that.

Friday, January 22nd, Jason M. Garwood, the author of Health for All of Life, a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations.

And you can look for that on Amazon under Health for All of Life and also

Jason M. as in Michael Garwood. We are now back with our guest today, who happens to be the pastor of a dear friend of mine,

Rich Pierce, the president of Alpha and Omega Ministries, the ministry of apologist

Dr. James R. White, and Dr. Robert E. Bernanski is pastor of Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

We are addressing a biblical antidote to pessimism in very dark and disturbing days.

If you have a question of your own that you'd like to send in, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence. And before I take any listener questions,

Pastor Rob, do you want to pick up where you left off and add anything to what you were already saying? Yeah, I was just saying, you know, that those trials, they come from unexpected places.

And, you know, it doesn't...the Word of God helps us sort through that.

You know, the Word of God helps us frame these things correctly so that the confusion that our spiritual enemies try to sow, that we can overcome that with truth.

And, you know, one of the difficulties is that a lot of people don't frame these things in terms of Scripture, but in terms of worldly definitions of success, comfort, and those types of things.

And, you know, so we think about, like, the idea of pessimism, right? Pessimism, people maybe think about that as thinking that something bad is going to happen or having a dark view of the future, and optimism being the future is going to be great.

But, you know, biblically speaking, as Peter is talking about this, you know, he says we are to keep on rejoicing so that at the revelation of the glory of Christ, we can rejoice with exaltation.

And so, the Christian can never be ultimately pessimistic, because it's the return of Christ when all of these things are going to be made right.

And so, no matter how dark it gets in the short term, we have that long -term view that we're rejoicing not because a new administration is coming in that's going to make our lives better, because we think the opposite of that is probably true, but because Christ is going to come in His glory, and He's going to reveal that, and that will be a day of great rejoicing for all of His people.

Praise God. Okay, we have a listener from Moundville, Alabama, and his name is

Ted, and he asks, your guest commented on the restrictions that churches are facing as a result of the pandemic, saying in effect that these restrictions were designed to disable the church.

I apologize if I'm not quoting that accurately. There is no instant replay.

My question is, designed by whom? Who is the designer, and what is that designer's end game?

Yeah, well, you know, at the risk of putting on a tinfoil hat here and seeming to be overly conspiracy theorist,

I think that if we look at our government, our government is hostile toward the church. And, you know, you can look at what's going on in California with the lawsuits against Community Church.

You know, there's a clear target that's put on churches like that by the government, and the government wants the people that are in government, they want to be the solution to all of our problems.

You know, government, the way I understand it in Revelation, is pictured as a you know, the demands to be worshipped.

And so the government is the solution to your health problems, to your poverty, to your education for your children.

The government has essentially set itself up as being God in all of these spheres of our lives in this country.

And so the government is, you know, I think the true target of the government in all of these things to shut down is the church.

And you look at how many churches are now dependent upon big tech, right, for their worship services, for their live streams.

You know, they're not necessarily meeting, or a lot of people aren't meeting, and they're dependent on this, and now we're seeing different people and platforms be shut down.

You know, your whole existence as a church could be wiped out in an instant by Google or Apple or whoever is hosting your church website.

And so it's a dangerous situation for the church. And I think that beyond that, there's a spiritual war, and the devil is making war against the church.

You know, his target is the church, and the collateral damage that happens in the world is insignificant to him.

And so the fact that businesses may get shut down or whatever, that's just collateral damage. What is the goal of Satan?

What is the goal of the demonic forces? Well, it's to oppose Christ, and it's to continue to keep people imprisoned in darkness, in the kingdom of darkness.

And so to shut down the preaching of the gospel, and to limit the exposure to the

Word of God, and to bring disrepute into the Word of God.

And so ultimately, I would see the designer of these things that are hostile toward the church as being part of the spiritual war that is going on.

And I think we are putting ourselves in a dangerous situation if we neglect that, or ignore that, or act as if that isn't a reality.

That there is a spiritual enemy who wants to destroy the church. He can't succeed, because the gates of Hades will not overcome the church.

But there's still war going on, and that's the real focus.

I mean, who is it that's at work, according to Ephesians 2, in the sons of disobedience?

The prince of the power of the air. And his target is set on the people of God.

And in a more light -hearted vein, Ted asks, has your church experienced any negative feedback over the fact that you greatly resemble actor

Ray Romano? I don't know if anybody has ever said that to you before.

Your photograph on your website is rather small, so I couldn't see the resemblance, but maybe

Ted is seeing something that I can't quite pick up on. Yeah, once in a while that comment gets made.

I guess there are worse celebrities to resemble than Ray Romano. I don't think anybody has left the church over it, though.

I might as well give a shout -out to my friend Rich Romano, who is Ray Romano's brother, lives on Long Island.

And if you're listening, Rich, I hope that you are starting to visit Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York.

And if you haven't yet, you'd better get over there, or you're going to hear a lecture from me the next time I speak with you.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who says,

I am hearing from very theologically sound people that we as conservatives and Christians have to be very careful not to allow our bitterness and anger and even, dare

I say, hatred towards those on the left cause us to disobey the scriptures when it comes to giving honor to our leaders that is due them, no matter how much we may oppose their ideology and their political agenda.

Do you have any counsel on how we can lessen our frustration, bitterness, anger, and even hatred that we might harbor towards someone like Joe Biden, who we believe has been involved in the greatest theft in political history, not to mention all of that has been going on in Ukraine and China with his family gaining millions of dollars illegally, etc.?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I agree with the assessment of the situation.

What was the listener's name? This is Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. Yeah. Yeah.

So I agree with Susan's assessment that there has been election fraud.

The election was stolen. Joe Biden will not be a legitimate president.

He did not win the election in a fair manner. And so I think that as believers, it's okay to say those things.

I think it's necessary if those things are true that we say those things. And I think there's ample evidence.

Unfortunately, there isn't a court in the country that has the courage to allow the evidence to be presented and to have a fair trial on those things.

And so ultimately, I suppose, in that sense, we'll never get all of that before us to hear that out.

But you know, a proverb that says, the wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous is bold as a lion.

And so when we see courts that are fleeing when no one's pursuing, I think we can pretty well conclude that the only reason they're doing that is because they know they're guilty and they know that the accusations are true.

And so biblically, I think, you know, the way the left has responded to the accusations vindicates their legitimacy.

But that doesn't, you know, give us the right to be bitter or hateful or vengeful to those people.

And I think the admonition in 1 Timothy 2, 1 and 2, is still appropriate that we should be praying for those who are in authority, whether they're there legitimately or not.

The reality is that they are in those positions of authority, however they obtain them.

And we need to pray for them. And it's hard to maintain long -term a spirit of bitterness or hatred if you are genuinely praying for someone's repentance and salvation, and for God to give them wisdom and the ability to make decisions that are good for the nation.

And so, you know, we may not have a lot of hope from an earthly perspective that they will make good decisions.

Certainly the Lord is able to turn their hearts however He wishes. But we should still be obedient to the command of Scripture, knowing that God gave us this command for a reason.

And so we should be praying, knowing that we are praying according to the revealed will of God in Scripture, as we pray for our leaders, however they got to those positions.

And we can continue to pray that justice would be done, and that if they're there illegitimately, that that would be exposed, and they would be removed from those offices if they cheated and stole their way to those positions of power.

I think that's, again, I think in the heart of a Christian, there's a deep desire for justice to be done.

And that's a godly thing. It talks about in Luke 18 how the elect are crying out to God day and night for justice on the earth.

And so we should be praying for that as well, that the Lord would expose the schemes of the evildoers, that they would fall into their own net, and that the things they've designed to harm others would come back on them.

You know, we see this throughout the Psalms, and the way we handle some of these issues, desiring for God's justice to be made known.

But, you know, ultimately, when we think about this, you know, we think about Psalm 73,

Psalm 37, and just the almost wrestling with this, right?

And in him seeing these evildoers succeed, and he says, as for me, my feet came close to stumbling, my steps had almost slipped, for I was envious of the arrogant as I saw the prosperity of the wicked.

And he goes on to talk about how there's no trouble in their lives. They're not plagued like mankind.

Pride is their necklace. The garment of violence covers them. You know, if you look at, you know, what has happened over the last year,

I mean, but just the pride of, and the smugness of guys like Jack Dorsey, and Mark Zuckerberg, and Joe Biden, and Barack Obama, and the violence that has come from the left.

You know, the burning and looting of cities, and, you know, these are the things that we're watching happen.

They mock, and wickedly speak of oppression. They speak from on high. They have set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue parades through the earth.

I mean, they're the ones with the voice. They're the ones with the megaphone, and the platforms.

And, you know, and the psalmist is surely in vain. I've kept my heart pure. And he says,

I've been stricken all day long, and chastened every morning. He's suffering while he's seeking to be obedient. And he says, if I had said,

I will speak thus, behold, I would have betrayed the generation of your children. When I pondered to understand this, it was troublesome in my sight until I came into the sanctuary of God.

And again, there's just the importance of gathering as the church, right? The importance, the perspective that brings when we come together with the people of God to hear the word of God.

In fact, we're going to pick up right there on the importance of the gathering of the people of God when we return from our midway break.

And this is a longer than normal break, as anyone who listens to this show regularly knows.

In the middle of the we have to take a longer break, because Grace Life Radio, who airs this program twice a day in Lake City, Florida, on 90 .1

FM in Lake City, they are required by the FCC to localize their programming, including

Iron Trap and Zion, to Lake City, Florida. So therefore, they air local announcements and public service announcements.

So while they do that, we globally, or should I say, we air commercials that are heard globally.

And we ask of you not only to be patient with us during this longer break, but please use this time wisely, write down as much of the information as you can, that is provided by our global advertisers, so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them, which will in turn likely lead them to desire to continue to advertise with us, which subsequently,

God willing, will mean that we will remain on the air for a longer future, because we absolutely positively depend upon our advertisers to exist, because of the finances that come in through these advertising campaigns.

So please write down information provided by our advertisers, and also write down questions for Rob Bernanski, and send them to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. We'll be right back after these messages. Iron Sharp and Zion Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance, spanning nearly a thousand years.

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers in Christian apologetics with evidence for the

Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.

Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the

Bible. HBS's founder, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is committed to sharing this collection, along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church.

Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century

Bible, an actual page of the Gutenberg Bible from 1455, the first book ever printed, the

Geneva Bible, the 1611 King James Bible, and much, much more. Visit historicalbiblesociety .org

today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hope Reform Baptist Church now located at their new beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the

Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Here's what Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.

Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time. You, I have to say, one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m.

Eastern Time, at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York, by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org. We are excited to announce another new member of the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family, Bhanu Gadhi, owner of three

New York pharmacies, Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long Beach Chemists, and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.

Bhanu Gadhi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic.

Please contact Dr. Gadhi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media.

To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 -354 -2000. That's 516 -354 -2000.

Or order online at leesdrugsrx .com. That's L -E -E -S

Drugs R -X dot com. Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.

Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Bhanu Gadhi. I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.

In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.

I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made, and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

God has designed, and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

God's design. And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be pretty serious.

Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

Thank you. Souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org.

That's linbrookbaptist .org. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round

Bible conference and retreat center nestled on the Jersey Shore. Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars. Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples, singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.

90 miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington, and easily accessible, scores of notable

Christian groups frequently plan conferences at Harvey Cedars, like the Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus Crusade, and the

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org.

hcbible .org. Call 609 -494 -5689.

609 -494 -5689. Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider

Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions, while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

Chris up for just such a time, and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

God -centered focus, reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.

Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

.com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com

or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Are you tired of looking for the silver bullet when it comes to health and wellness?

Are you frustrated with the medical status quo which masks symptoms and doesn't treat the root problem of sickness?

More importantly, are you looking for one of the most unique books ever written which gives you safe, low -cost, and proven options to regain your health the way

God intended? Then look no further than my new book, Health for All of Life, a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations.

Hi, I'm Jason Garwood, and I'm a husband, father, pastor, and writer whose passion for helping people led me to write this book.

If 2020 has proven anything, it's that Big Pharma, Big Tech, and Big Government knows nothing about how to treat people naturally without poisoning them with synthetic drugs and experimental vaccines.

But what if God has given us a better way? What if we can take the Christian worldview found in the Bible and apply it to health and wellness?

My book, Health for All of Life, does just that. You can find this exciting new book on Amazon. Pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family.

Give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White of the

First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my

Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted. He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,

Christ -exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And please don't forget folks that solid -ground -books .com

is a premier, a primary, a vital and indispensable advertiser on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

We absolutely depend upon and rely upon the financial support that we receive from solid -ground -books .com

to exist, and we would likely go off the air without their continued financial support, barring a miracle from God.

So in order to help us keep on the air, go to solid -ground -books .com, discover their treasure trove of books, the finest in Christian literature from the past and the present, both books that they have brought back into print, some of them centuries old, that have been brought back into print sometimes for the very first time in centuries by solid -ground -books .com,

and also books by contemporary authors like Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and others.

And do a lot of gift purchasing at solid -ground -books .com.

With all the events coming up and all the reasons and occasions for purchasing gifts, please make solid -ground -books .com

your first stop. We've got Valentine's Day coming up, we've got Easter coming up, we have obviously most of us have wedding anniversaries coming up, or even just weddings or engagement gifts that we are purchasing, retirement gifts, all kinds of gifts, bereavement gifts for those that you know who have lost loved ones.

I don't know if I mentioned birthdays already, but that's a no -brainer. I could go on and on and on with reasons why we purchase gifts, so please go to solid -ground -books .com

first and purchase as many gifts as you can for those you love, in addition to replenishing your own library.

And remember, you're not only going to be doing solid -ground -books .com a favor when you purchase books from them, and you're not only going to be doing us a favor since you're making one of our advertisers happy, you're going to be doing yourself and anyone for whom you are purchasing gifts from solid -ground -books .com

a huge favor because, as I said, they publish the finest in Christian literature from the past and the present.

You can never go wrong with anything you purchase from solid -ground -books .com. Always remember to mention

Chris Arnzen on The Varying Sharpens Iron Radio as your source for discovering solid -ground -books .com

whenever you make a purchase. Before we return to Dr. Robert E. Bernanski and our discussion on a biblical antidote to pessimism and very dark and disturbing days, we just have a couple more announcements to make.

For those of you who know and love Dr. Vody Balcom, or perhaps you don't know who he is yet, if that's the case, you definitely should discover him and benefit from his very valuable ministry.

Well, I hope that you join me on Thursday, January 28th from 8 a .m.

to 12 noon in Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania, for a conference featuring

Dr. Vody Balcom, and he is going to be addressing, exposing, and critiquing critical race theory, a heresy that has been plaguing the

Church, even those that profess to be Reformed, and it is quite a disturbing phenomenon.

It is such a reason for rejoicing that one of the key figures who is publicly renouncing and denouncing and exposing and refuting this heresy, critical race theory, and the woke movement, it's such a blessing to know that this key person doing this in the public is a black brother like Vody Balcom, and he's taken a lot of heat from his fellow black brethren in Christ and some that profess to be over this issue, so we thank

God for his courage and his steadfastness to truth and fearing

God more than fearing men. So please join me Thursday, January 28th, 8 a .m.

to 12 noon in Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania, for this event. If you'd like to register, you could just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and I will forward your information to Pastor Jacob Tanner, who has orchestrated this event and is hosting it, and that's

Thursday, January 28th, 8 a .m. to 12 noon, Vody Balcom speaking against critical race theory.

Also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, I ask of you,

I urge you, I plead with you, please go to irontruppensirenradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion. If you prefer snail mail, an address will appear on the screen, a physical address, where you can mail a check, may payable, to IronTruppensirenRadio.

And we try to remember to remind you every day, please don't siphon money away from your regular giving that you're accustomed to, to your own local church where you are a member, in order to give to IronTruppensirenRadio.

Please don't, in other words, punish your own church financially by blessing us financially. And please, if you are really struggling to survive, please don't put your family in further financial peril at this point by giving to IronTruppensirenRadio.

If it's going to force you to take food off of your own dinner table or let other bills stack up, those two things are commands of scripture, clear commands of scripture, providing for your church and your family.

Providing for IronTruppensirenRadio is obviously not a command of scripture, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, you love this show, you don't want it to disappear, please go to IronTruppensirenRadio .com,

click support, then click click to donate now. Please donate frequently and generously if you are able to do so without violating those two commands of providing for church and family.

Also, folks, if you want to advertise with us as long as whatever it is you want to promote is compatible with what we believe, send me an email to chrisirensen at gmail .com

and put advertising in the subject line and I will gladly help you to launch an ad campaign.

You don't have to believe exactly as I do, but you need to be promoting something that is compatible at the very least with what I believe.

Last but not least, if you are not a member of a local bible believing church, you're having a hard time finding a biblically sound church, no matter where in the world you live,

I may be able to help you. I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet earth and I have already helped many people in our audience find churches sometimes within minutes of where they live and they didn't even know these churches existed or at least they didn't know that these churches were biblically sound.

So please send me an email if you are in that category, chrisirensen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line, chrisirensen at gmail .com.

That's also the email address where you can join us on the air with a question for Dr.

Robert E. Bernanski, pastor of Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and we are discussing a biblical antidote to pessimism in very dark and disturbing days.

And Dr. Rob, do you have anything further to add where you left off before we move on to any listener questions?

Yeah, well we were talking about, you know, how do you deal with bitterness or anger or things like that with some of these people that are, you know, illegitimately in power and clearly opposed to the church and to the truth of God's word.

And in Psalm 73, there's a perfect description of them. And we left off talking about how the psalmist was tempted to think like an unbeliever and to think that his pursuit of God was in vain because he was suffering while the wicked were seemingly triumphing.

And it was when he came together with the people of God in the holy place of God, in the sanctuary of God, that he was reminded of the truth.

And how important it is that during these dark and difficult days that we continue to gather together as a church, because that will help continually reset our perspective on what is true.

And the psalmist said that when he came into the sanctuary of God, then he perceived the end of these evildoers.

And he says, surely you set them in slippery places. You cast them down to destruction. How they are destroyed in a moment.

They are utterly swept away by sudden terrors. And when we were gathered on Sunday at Desert Hills, I was thinking about some of these same issues in my own heart.

And the frustration we naturally have in these dark and difficult days is that people who are wicked seem to be winning.

And we sang the hymn, All Creatures of Our God and King. And in that hymn, the line, you know,

Then who shall fall on bended knee? All creatures of our God and King. And gathering together with the people of God and singing that hymn,

I was reminded that all of these rebels against Christ, there is the day coming when they are going to be humbled before God.

And they are going to bow the knee and acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. And we pray they would do that before their last breath.

But even if not, even if that is not God's purpose, and God is setting them in slippery places and God will cast them down to destruction,

Christ is going to have everyone confess and everyone bow the knee to him.

Jack Dorsey, Mark Zuckerberg, Joe Biden, they will all fall down before Christ. And that's a comfort.

And that's why we need the church during these dark and difficult days. That's why we need to gather, even if the local government says it's dangerous, or even if they say it's not allowed.

We need to gather. We need to have that encouragement to remedy the pessimism and the discouragement that comes during times like this.

And we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says, should we not remember that as bad as things may be, the church has seen far worse, far more terrifying, far more blood spilled days than we are currently experiencing?

Right, and you know, Ronald, the reality is that churches, there are churches in the world today that are still experiencing that.

It's not just something in the historic past that believers long ago suffered, there are believers in other parts of the world today that are still shedding their blood for the sake of Christ, who are imprisoned, who are separated from their families, who are dying and being put to death for the sake of the gospel.

And so we suffer, in a sense, with them, because we're still in the flesh, and Hebrews talks about that, how we ought to be prayerful for them and mindful of their suffering.

And so certainly it could get far worse. I think the pessimism that comes is, you know, oh no, it's going to be like that here.

And none of us knows whether it will or not at this point, but you know, if it does, again, going back to 1

Peter 4, if you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the spirit of glory and of God rests on you.

And so yeah, it could get worse here. You know,

I tend to think it probably will get worse here. But if we're reviled for the name of Christ, we can't think of that as, oh, woe is us, and why did it get so bad?

But we are blessed to be counted worthy to suffer for his name, and to know that the Holy Spirit, it is the mark of his presence in our lives, for us to be reviled for the name of Christ.

And so what a blessing that is. Praise God. We have

Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, and Arnie says, what practical ways can we, as brothers and sisters in Christ and the church, reach out to others that will help calm their spirits, that will help bring them to more optimistic views of not only the present, but the future, in spite of anything that's going on?

Yeah, how can we practically encourage people? And I think we need to point one another back to the truth.

One of the things that seems to stir up discouragement, anger, frustration, fear, is speculating about the future.

And one of the tempting things right now, I know for myself and for a lot of people that I know, is to get caught up in the 24 -7 news cycle, constantly checking the news.

What's happening, what's happened, what are the changes, and who's been banned now, who's been deplatformed, and all of these different things.

And of course, that's by design from the media, because the more you're on their website or you're watching their show, the more their ratings go up, the more their revenues go up.

And so the news cycle is designed by the people that do the marketing to be addictive and to draw us into it, so that we constantly want to check the news.

But we need to remind each other that we should probably put a governor on that and put a cap on how often we're going to check those types of sources of information, because there's really nothing that we can do about the major changes happening in the world besides pray.

We're not in positions to affect change in policies or things like that.

So for us to be informed is fine, but it needs to be balanced and reasonable.

And so I encourage people, you know, if you're going to be on the news, set aside a time during the day that you're going to do that, but don't do it all day long.

Don't let that have control of your mind and your heart, because that is going to...it's just designed to engender the desire to go back and check again and see what's the rest of the story.

And so we want to encourage people with the truth, encourage people to immerse themselves in Scripture, encourage people to spend time with other believers, talking about things that are true and noble and good and beautiful and lovely and a good report, and, you know, those things that we're talked about or told to think about in Philippians chapter 4.

And I think focusing on those things that are true and not getting lost in the speculations about tomorrow.

Jesus talks about this in Matthew 6, right? Don't worry about tomorrow. Today has enough trouble of its own.

And so to focus on just being faithful where I'm at, what can I do right now to be faithful to Christ in my life?

And, you know, as a pastor, I can pray for people. I can be studying Scripture and preparing for preaching on Sunday.

I can be calling people that are suffering or hurting or need prayer. You know, these are practical things

I can do to help people. I can't, you know, change what's going to happen in the country, or I can't, you know, tell somebody what's going to happen in a news story tomorrow.

But there are practical things I can do to help people, and I can point them back to Christ and keep their eyes fixed on Him.

You know, and one of the sad, very sad aspects of this whole hysteria over the coronavirus pandemic that has led to mandates and restrictions on gathering that have no scientific basis, that don't have any constitutional basis, is the fact that there are some, not all.

For instance, I know that your congregation has not ceased to maintain its worship services.

I know that Apologia Church, where Dr. James R. White and Jeff Durbin and Luke Pearson are pastors, they have continued meeting in spite of any opposition.

But there are those that have become hermit -like. There are those that have locked themselves in their homes out of fear of what they're hearing in the media, whether it be fear of getting the coronavirus, even if they are relatively young and healthy, or whether a fear of some kind of retribution by the local government, whatever the fear is, or just because they don't want to be shamed by people in their community, viewed as somebody who is unconcerned about the health and well -being of others, whatever the reason is.

But Christians were not meant to be hermits. We were not meant to be monks.

We were not meant to be lone wolves. And we should, if we truly have the

Holy Spirit within us, we starve. We have hunger pangs. We really begin to dry up without the fellowship.

And sometimes, wouldn't you agree that it's not anything specific that needs to be said, but just having the presence of brethren in Christ who love you and whom you love, that is worth a trillion dollars, times a trillion, times a trillion, when it comes to facing and having victory over depression and pessimism and whatever the reason is for this downfall of your spirit and your outlook?

Isn't it true that we are in need almost as much as we need oxygen?

We need to have the brethren in our midst. Yeah, absolutely.

And I've heard testimony after testimony at Desert Hills of people who have said that it is the routine, the normalcy, the fellowship of being in church every

Sunday over the last however many months, you know, and they give this testimony that has kept them sane during this time, that has kept them mentally and spiritually stable.

It's knowing that there's going to be that time when they're going to see their brothers and sisters in Christ, they're going to worship, they're going to be in that encouraging environment where the

Word of God is proclaimed and the people of God are fellowshipping. And over the last several months, we just see the level of fellowship, the level of joy that people have to be there increasing exponentially.

I think it was easy maybe to take it for granted before it all became imperiled by the unconstitutional mandates and all the different requirements and things like that, and now people realize how much they need that in their walk with Christ.

Being a Christian is not something you do on your own. It's something God designed you to do in community with the church.

And so we have, you know, we just see and, you know, our church has almost tripled in size in the last six months because people...

Praise God. Praise God, yeah, and people are coming and they're seeing the life and the power of the

Holy Spirit in the presence of the church, that they don't see other places, you know, it just stands out.

And that's what the church is supposed to do in a time of crisis, right? It is supposed to stand out. It's supposed to be that shining city on a hill.

And I think a large percentage of our congregation has had COVID or has it now.

I just got over it. Yesterday was my first day back in the office after being sick for two weeks with it.

And, you know, about a third of our congregation was missing this last

Lord's Day. And in the middle of that, we still have all these new people coming, and people, knowing this, knowing how widespread it is in the community, are still staying after church for an hour and fellowshipping.

You know, and it just speaks to the value of that fellowship. There's no idea at Desert Hills that this is a hoax or there's not a real virus, or, you know, we have people that we love that have been sick.

We have people we love that are in the hospital. We understand this is a real thing, and it can be very dangerous for some people.

Yes. In fact, we've had folks in our congregation who are senior citizens who have died, at least partially, because of the coronavirus.

And I even had a very close friend in elementary school,

Catholic elementary school. I was raised Catholic before my rebirth in Christ, and a very dear friend of mine back then, who

I just rekindled a friendship with over Facebook a year ago. He was a diabetic, and he developed pneumonia, and apparently coronavirus was a part of the problem that took his life.

I'm sorry to hear that. But yeah, I mean, you understand this is a virus. People literally are dying with this and from this.

But when you see who Christ is, and the importance of coming together, you know, we're seeing people that are saying, really,

I would rather die than live without the fellowship of the people of God. And that's a powerful testimony to the glory of Christ and the importance of the

Church. Amen. Well, we're going to go to our final break.

It's going to be a lot shorter than the last two breaks. If you have any questions that you'd like to contribute to the discussion today, please send it in quickly before we run out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away.

We'll write back after these messages from our sponsors with more of Dr. Rob Bernanski and our discussion today.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.

Jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors, like the turquoise goat skin tanned in Italy used for my

Nestle All in 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a

French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible I used as a gift. The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather, making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to ptlbiblerebinding .com.

That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. We are excited to announce another new member of the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family, Banu Gadi, owner of three

New York pharmacies, Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long Beach Chemists, and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.

Banu Gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic.

Please contact Dr. Gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media.

To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 -354 -2000. That's 516 -354 -2000.

Or order online at leesdrugsrx .com. That's l -e -e -s -drugsrx .com.

Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program. Greetings in the matchless name of our

Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Banu Gadi. I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.

In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this,

I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

God has designed and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

God's design. And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be very serious.

Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

Thank you. This is

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ, today and always.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

NASB. I'm author Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Dan LeBennick of West Hills Baptist Church in Huntington Station, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Reverend Buzz Taylor, author of God's Lawson, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Dr. William Webster, pastor of Grace Bible Church in Battleground, Washington, founder of the ministry

Christian Resources, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Ryan Galan of Central Islip Community Church in Central Islip, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Brandon Smith of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Jackson, Georgia, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Ironson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone.

Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available

Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices. Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available, because frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is CVBBS .com. Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence, as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the

Church, and to Christ. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CVBBS .com.

That's CVBBS .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Are you tired of looking for the silver bullet when it comes to health and wellness? Are you frustrated with the medical status quo, which masks symptoms and doesn't treat the root problem of sickness?

More importantly, are you looking for one of the most unique books ever written, which gives you safe, low -cost, and proven options to regain your health the way

God intended? Then look no further than my new book, Health for All of Life, a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations.

Hi, I'm Jason Garwood, and I'm a husband, father, pastor, and writer whose passion for helping people led me to write this book.

If 2020 has proven anything, it's that big pharma, big tech, and big government knows nothing about how to treat people naturally without poisoning them with synthetic drugs and experimental vaccines.

But what if God has given us a better way? What if we can take the Christian worldview found in the Bible and apply it to health and wellness?

My book, Health for All of Life, does just that. You can find this exciting new book on Amazon. Pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family.

Give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,

Christ -exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the

Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.

Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the

Bible. HBS's founder, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is committed to sharing this collection, along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church.

Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century

Bible, an actual page of the Gutenberg Bible from 1455, the first book ever printed, the

Geneva Bible, the 1611 King James Bible, and much, much more. Visit historicalbiblesociety .org

today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And we want to thank Historical Bible Society for just renewing their advertising contract with us here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And if you want to thank them for renewing their advertising contract, please go to historicalbiblesociety .org,

historicalbiblesociety .org. Immediately when you go to that website, you will see the promotion of a beautiful facsimile of the genealogies of Jesus taken directly from their copy of their first edition of the 1611

King James Bible of Jesus' genealogy. They have created this, they have turned this artwork that comes from that first edition 1611

King James Bible on the genealogies. They've taken that artwork and turned it into a 44 -page book, very large book as far as the dimensions.

It's over eight and a half by 11, and the artwork is truly beautiful. It basically looks like you have a book printed on parchment paper.

And you will get this for your donation of $35 or more. And remember, when you're helping our sponsors like Historical Bible Society, you are helping

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio remain in existence. That website again is historicalbiblesociety .org,

historicalbiblesociety .org. And we're now back with the final 10 minutes or so with our guest,

Dr. Robert E. Bernanski, and he is pastor of Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

We are discussing a biblical antidote to pessimism in very dark and disturbing days.

And we have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who has a question for you.

He says that, I constantly am being told by my friends that we need to be kind and loving, even to those that oppose us politically.

Now, I agree with that, but I don't necessarily agree with what they mean by that.

John the Baptist confronted Herod about his divorcing his wife and marrying his own sister -in -law, and he was executed for that.

Should we not take an example from John the Baptist on the necessity of a

Christian exposing the sins of their leaders? Yeah, we've seen this a lot over the last year with the

COVID stuff, because of the call to have a good testimony to the world, and to be kind and loving to unbelievers by shutting down your church, and, you know, what is it?

And it's raised the question and shown how many evangelicals are disconnected from Scripture in the very definitions of words they use.

And so, how do you know what is kind or loving? Where does... Who determines that?

And when you listen to the way a lot of even professing believers discuss that, who determines that is the unbeliever, and how they feel about what you're saying or doing.

And that is not how we determine, biblically, what is kind or what is loving.

Those commands to be kind, to be loving to others come from the law of God.

And so it's the law of God that determines what it means to love our political opponents, to love our enemies.

And I think the unbeliever often will feel unloved by us when we are being loving, because they define love as being accepted the way they are in their sin, in their rebellion, being affirmed.

Not even just accepted, but really being loved in our culture now means that I have to affirm you and everything about you and your choices in your life.

And scripturally, that's not what it means to love. If I am going to love someone, I have to speak truth to them.

And so that means that if somebody is ungodly, I'm going to have to tell them that.

If I am loving them, I'm going to have to call them to repentance and confront their sin. And of course,

I should do that with grace. I should do that with gentleness and respect, sanctifying

Christ as Lord in my heart. And all of those things that go along with that.

I don't want to be quarrelsome, like it talks about in 2 Timothy 2. I want to be respectful of others, but I still have to speak the truth, call them to repentance with the hope that perhaps

God will grant them repentance and they'll escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by the devil to do his will.

And so for the world, the reason that the church gets persecuted is not because we affirm the world.

It's because we don't affirm it. It's because we speak truth and that truth brings light into darkness and it condemns, it pronounces condemnation against sin and calls people to repent from that for their salvation.

So yeah, you know, I think that we have to be above name -calling and mudslinging.

And you know, there are things that conservative unbelievers do that are not things that Christians should model in the way they handle disagreements.

But we should be clear about what is true. We should be clear about what honors God and what

Scripture says. And our first and foremost allegiance is to love

God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength. And then the second commandment is to love our neighbor.

And so it seems like that has been reversed a lot in many people's thinking.

And God and His law have been put on the shelf for the preferences of men and what they want and what makes them feel affirmed.

And so we have to help our brothers and sisters who are confused about this to help them think about love and kindness biblically.

And then we have to be willing to be slandered by the world for doing what is good in the eyes of God.

And we need to be okay with that. You know, having a good testimony doesn't mean the world thinks I'm nice.

It means the world thinks I'm a Christian the way the Bible defines that, which they're probably going to hate.

Yeah, you use the key word here, nice. People wrongly think, both

Christians and non -Christians, think that in order to be loving, we are to be perpetually nice.

And Jesus Christ obviously wasn't always nice, even though He was the perfect embodiment of true love.

He certainly wasn't nice to the Pharisees, calling them a brood of vipers and hypocrites and whitewashed sepulchers filled with dead men's bones, and on and on we could go.

He certainly wasn't nice when He drove the money changers out of the temple with a whip. So we really have to be biblically educated to define our terms and to provide the basis for how we live, right?

That's right. You know, and you think about even with the Syrophoenician woman, right? He says it's not right to give what belongs to the children to the dogs.

I mean, that's not a very nice thing to say to somebody. You know, and so we have to define that biblically.

We can't let the world determine our theology. And that's what the world wants to do in this situation.

They want to tell us what we must do to be loving, and we, in turn, in turn, say, no, you don't even know what love means.

We must do what God says is loving and call them to repentance for their hatred that they disguise as love.

And we have just about a minute and a half or so. We have a question from Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who says,

I know that many people throw out as a placard Romans 828, but having said that, isn't this a very key passage to find hope and joy in in the midst of this dark and disturbing world we live in?

Not only for us as individuals who love God and are called according to the purpose, but to the church as a whole to find encouragement and comfort in.

Amen, amen. Yeah, I mean, just because it's quoted a lot doesn't mean it needs to be trite.

It will be if we don't think about it deeply and meditate on that passage and we use it like a slogan to deny the reality of evil or difficulty and suffering.

And for those of us who don't know that text, it's that all things work together for the good for those who love

God, who are the called according to his purpose. That's right, yeah. And that is a great comfort and it has been.

There's a reason that so many Christians know that or call that their life verse or have that memorized, because it is designed by God to be a great comfort to us in the midst of suffering.

That's what Paul's talking about, that the whole creation is groaning, waiting for the redemption of the children of God.

And in the middle of that groaning, we have that promise. That it will all work for our good.

If we love God and we've been called according to his purpose. And we've always seen in history and in the scriptures that God's people always benefit in the long run and are blessed in the long run when we go through fiery trials.

That's right. And that's, you know, like we talked about in 1 Peter, if you're reviled, you are blessed. You are, you know, we will be blessed for being faithful in the middle of suffering.

And we're not to be ashamed of that. We shouldn't be ashamed if the world rejects us. We should, in fact, glorify Christ and glorify

God or the animosity of the world that comes to us. And we are out of time.

And I just want to make sure that our listeners have your website, deserthillschurch .com. Deserthillschurch .com.

Remember, there's only one S in desert. And Desert Hills is a different church.

But I want to thank you so much. I know what church it is, but it's not us. I want to thank you so much, Dr. Rob, for being such an excellent guest.

I look forward to your return. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner. Amen. Thank you, Chris, for having me on. I really appreciate the opportunity.