Paula White and the Bees, Ken Wilson Pumps Up the Dead

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00:33

Greetings welcome to the dividing line on a I guess it's Monday. I think it's

00:39

Monday. Yes. We had the kids over last night for dinner that means it's Monday because we've

00:45

Apologia has been meeting on the other side of the planet from its normal location and so real close to where I live and so It's been really neat over the past month or so That on Sundays after church cuz fun

01:03

Much much enjoyment, and I guess I guess last night. I I got online after everybody left and and my daughter had

01:13

Tweeted and Facebooked that and I remember I was I was sitting in front of him

01:18

I sit on the front row because I have to go up and do stuff and at some point during the the service

01:27

I Noticed that one of the grandkids was doing something that he and there's only one of them

01:33

Shouldn't be doing it wasn't anything terrible. It's just what boys do But I just cleared my throat and got his attention like that and Summer tweets that she heard me clear my throat and she sat up like what am

01:52

I doing? She Saw what it was and and but but she decided she better behave better Anyway, thanks for a

02:07

Very appreciative of the fact that I was gone for a few days and Yet the the program continued on rich managed to bring in some

02:22

I'm not sure. I was a little I was a little put off because it sort of sounded to me like most people just wanted

02:29

Me to go away and just bring the new guy in, you know You know, he's a lot younger and stuff like that and you know his hair and things like that Yeah, so, you know, what can

02:39

I say? You got to be careful when you bring those those look what look what happened to You know with when

02:47

Jay Leno took over the night did did that guy really die? I mean we don't know It's it's it's hard to say anyway

02:55

So appreciate that. I listened to the program as I was driving somewhere on my travels and Saw a lot of good positive feedback concern

03:08

Spoken of I haven't even spoken of it as much Because I'm in the middle of it because The church where I'm one of the elders has not stopped meeting even for a single week during all of this

03:23

And I don't mean drive -ins or anything else. We have we have met in a in a worship center and Had the

03:31

Lord's Supper etc, etc. So that that perspective is a minority perspective and hence

03:37

It doesn't get heard quite nearly as much. But um, anyway, I appreciate the fact that the program continued on and But we did we did sort of drop drop the amount of programming last week and and I had one guy at church.

03:56

There was actually a guy from Oregon who flew to Phoenix Just to attend our church and get a haircut and flew back today

04:07

That's how that's how bad it is in Oregon that you would fly to Phoenix to get a haircut go to church and then

04:13

Go back Wow, so there you go as I just said on Twitter Stuck in a blue state with a commie governor

04:20

Can't even peek outside without getting reported for SDV social distancing violation Then take heart fire up your browser and join us on the dividing line right now

04:32

So those those of you who were left without hours and hours and hours of Programming last week.

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We're sorry about that. We'll try to do a little bit better this week and And keep you keep you company Keep you edified and the most edifying thing

04:48

I can do I Can do is to start off With The the lady who works at the

04:59

White House Well, she goes to the White House a lot. I don't I don't know if she's actually paid anything.

05:05

I hope not I really really hope not but Phil Johnson just posted now.

05:15

I I could have a little debate with Phil about the context in which he put I I I do

05:21

Find the Paula White's of the world incredibly Damaging to Christian witness especially in the secular culture where the secular culture is not going to Differentiate between Paula White and myself even though the

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Grand Canyon between us is is real They're not gonna make that differentiation and so there is a tremendous damage done to the

05:44

Christian witness by people like Paula White in this entire spectrum of zaniness But I don't think that's

05:53

But I would I would put the emphasis definitely on the government

05:59

The massive lurch to the left that has taken place over the past couple of months now as being of greater immediate import because We've been free to expose and refute

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Paula White for a long time Let this keep going left and we're not gonna have a voice to refute anything

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Now she's not gonna have a voice to be raising money. So there you go Some of the first people that are gonna disappear will be these folks no two ways about it

06:34

Did you just get a spike oh Well, yeah my

06:40

UPS in here popped so, huh Might mean there's it's time.

06:47

All is good. Good to know. We're still You got backup batteries. Good. That's that's that's good

06:54

Gotta back up the back. That's true. That's true Anyway, I remember when UPS's first came out because I what do we need him for it?

07:02

You know, but then it's like hey, you just lost all that work You just been you know, just lost last hours worth of work because you forgot to hit save This is before programs had autosave in them.

07:12

Believe it or not. There was a day before autosave And I am one of many many of the ancient world

07:21

Who worked and worked and worked and typed and typed and typed and then the lights flashed and it all just went

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Goodbye You get to start all over again. Yeah. Yeah, I remember those days. Anyways, let's get back to our edification here here is

07:36

Paula White This is the single greatest garage band name ever

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Paula White and the B's Paula White and the B's I don't know where this came from I don't hear any response.

07:55

So I get the feeling this is to an empty room And so maybe she's just trying to get herself all excited.

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I don't know Or she's trying to get bees excited. I I don't know about that either but I And you know, she's actually she's actually telling the truth

08:20

The the mechanisms of communication amongst bees fascinating absolutely fascinating Defies any kind of evolutionary explanation.

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Oh, don't don't get me wrong I know they have their explanations, but it demonstrates just how far they're willing to go

08:41

To explain away clearly created behavior

08:47

Intelligent design. Did you see a video of the killer hornet that that went into the

08:54

Japanese beehive and They cooked it Excuse me, but how did

09:00

Japanese bees know that their body temperatures can be two degrees centigrade above the killer hornet so they all jump on him and Start doing jumping jacks or whatever and cook him.

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I Mean that is just fascinating just wow. That is really cool

09:23

But anyway bees bees are cool or in that case hot Bees bees are neat and the

09:31

Queen Bee does communicate with her wings and believe it or not

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The the speed at which she moves her wings and how she moves them and so is all a language

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I mean it's fascinating It really makes you realize

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Wow This is incredible stuff So there's a good side to it so what she's saying is true

10:00

But well, you just got to watch so so here's here's Paula White.

10:06

Yes, the Paula White White House Paula White and notice she will throw in a reference to kovat just for the fun of at the end, which

10:14

I Don't know why she's bothering because her declaring an end to kovat hasn't

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Ended kovat, but anyways, here's here's Paula White and the bees The leader of the bee family is always a female known as a

10:29

Queen Bee. She's the only female that is fertile Deborah your

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Queen Bee come on, but here's what's so important. She is known for her dance

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She is known for her dance and it's not like some cute little you know, this kind of dance

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It's not that this kind of dance She's known for her dance because when she gets ready to notify and the hive of a new source of food

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She will perform a dance by vibrating her wings Her wings start going into this like almost uncontrollable

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Vibration and the moving of her body around and the dance starts to communicate how far and in what?

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Direction the food at the amount of food there is great dance. The dance will last longer and it'll be more enthusiastic

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So what she starts doing the longer the dance the more bees she gets aroused so Queen Bee starts going into this frenzy and she starts going around and around and around and she goes into vibrations until all the bees get

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Activated and all the bees start going forth and she leads the way by stirring something up I dare you

11:35

Deborah come the lawn of the White House in front of the president the vice president the flotus the nation the press

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And declare in the name of Jesus. I declare right now and into this kovat 19

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What good am I if I pray some cute little prayer? What good am I if I have some fancy little poem or just talk about the problem?

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Everybody knows the problem, but who's gonna come forth with the solution stir them up stir them up Come on,

12:02

Deborah stir them up right now. Stir them up. There's a whole lot of food. There's revelation Some people are eating asses head and I was dumb.

12:10

Come on. Where's my Deborah? Where's my Deborah? Yeah, you put that microphone down boy you just put that microphone down Well, I'm edified.

12:33

I don't know about anybody else I'm edified. I Think she's actually older than we are.

12:41

I'm not sure about that. But I I think she might actually be older than us I Don't know

12:52

What can you even start to say? I I I I don't I don't know what to say.

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I Just I've told the story many many times. It's probably been 15 20 years ago That she was on TBN and she was in she used

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She had a word of knowledge based on like the 69th

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Psalm That you're supposed to give $69, you know, that's probably the last time

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I had I think I was probably last time I even had a TV that could tune to channel 21 that long ago and It was just like Really?

13:32

Okay. All right. Well, there you go Paula White and the bees though that you gotta admit that is probably one of the best garage band names that has ever

13:41

Has ever been devised some? I was there was had some buzz. Yeah has some buzz to it.

13:47

Thanks. Appreciate that Okay. All right not gonna get into a

13:59

Lot of the stuff that has been going on the past number of days as far as Cultural developments will have plenty of time to be doing all of that as time goes by I'll just say this it is

14:17

It is satisfying to see Things that we've been saying that I've been saying

14:26

Expressing concern about for many weeks becoming mainstream Major news organizations finally getting online and going

14:39

Huh? Well, this could be a concern and it was a concern Long time ago when we expressed it we had people who were former friends saying we were jumping sharks and Wearing tinfoil hats and things like that.

14:55

And you know now that It's becoming mainstream I'm not expecting any apologies or well, okay, but it is somewhat

15:09

Satisfying on that end, but that doesn't change the fact that There are some real difficult days ahead there's no toys about it and it does seem to me

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I'll just I saw One real positive thing this morning.

15:23

I had seen this gym that was going to be opening and they they rearranged everything and all the equipment it was six feet apart, which it's sort of like I had to fly this past week and You have to wear face masks stupidest thing on the planet,

15:45

I'm sorry stupid thing on the planet You're in a sealed tube with air being recirculated

15:54

Unless you're wearing a properly fitted medical grade N95 mask which will cause you headaches lower your your blood oxygen and increase your carbon dioxide in your bloodstream

16:10

And needs to be replaced every few hours What they would allow you to get on with Was a complete joke

16:19

You can have a bandana You could you could be they've had a 50 % increase in armed robberies in in LA Because everyone wears bandanas once you run outside you look like everybody else.

16:31

Hey Couldn't see that one coming up. No but there are so Many papers

16:40

About the foolishness of this it is all virtue signaling now if you are Scared if you're frightened out of your mind, or if you're just you've just really

16:52

Think this or if you have a particular condition that might make you assess especially susceptible then wear a face mask just get the right one and You're gonna have to bring more than one

17:05

You're gonna have to get one that seals you're gonna have to wear it, right? You're gonna have to Replace it

17:14

You're gonna have to you're gonna have to put out that effort. I have no problem with you doing that go for it but why make me do it and Especially why put up with the fact that I had this this thing on That that fit all right, but it's not doing anybody any good it's not it's not protecting me from anything

17:34

It's not protecting anyone else from anything it is We're all in this together

17:41

Let's it is it is the mindset that has developed over the past 15 -20 years that doing something

17:48

Has to be better than doing nothing. No sometimes doing something is the dumbest thing you can do

17:55

Sometimes doing nothing is the best thing you can do And in this situation in a plane in a plane

18:02

Where they're recirculating the air and and You're not enforcing a strict kind of mask which would make half the people sick by the time they got where they're going anyways it's just Pure panic it's just it's just Loss of I mean the the current.

18:22

I'm sorry. I wasn't gonna do this, but really quickly the current May 2020

18:28

CDC Medical Journal has an article that basically says that outside of medical contexts this kind of face mask hysteria is worthless the

18:48

CDC Now you know that this paper was was already plot as had already been designated for publishing

18:54

Months ago, and I can't believe they didn't pull it because it says the exact opposite of what the

18:59

CDC is now saying but I have a page full of Articles on this very subject in reputable research magazines

19:13

But nobody cares because hey, it's um did you just cough? He just coughed another room, and he's not wearing a mask so I'm dead.

19:24

No. I'm actually not I have this thing called an immune system. It's an amazing thing and it's it's great

19:30

It's wonderful. It's it's awesome Anyway, I look forward to the day when that ends and you know

19:37

I can go into my little the little restaurant that I went By today on the way in and picked up my food.

19:42

I can go in and sit down again But I do not find it appetizing that the servers

19:49

Look like Nurses oh yeah, they all have to have masks on They all have to have masks on so you know people are talking about well.

19:57

We're opening up Well if you call that opening up I suppose But you know you can only have a certain number of people in the room

20:06

And then the servers look like you have a disease or are the disease

20:13

Yeah, we're all in this together comrade. That's right. It is Es ist für eure

20:19

Sicherheit. Ja, it is for your safety Okay, oh,

20:28

I need to keep this in because I'm okay alright, so what was I gonna do today? This morning

20:37

I've been in contact over the past number of weeks with a couple guys on Facebook who are

20:45

Likewise working on the Kent the Ken Wilson problem and their motivations are a little different to mine

20:53

They are not Calvinists like me. They're at least one of them's Lutheran. I'm not sure what the other one is

20:58

I assume probably But we all have a deep aversion to the utter misrepresentation abuse of church history and Hence when

21:14

I picked up the popular Ken Wilson book Before long

21:21

I heard from one of these two gentlemen. I've mentioned his name before Their focus is primarily on the element of Wilson's thesis and don't don't tune out you're gonna enjoy this

21:35

We're gonna be going into a biblical text And I just realized I didn't need to pull this up yet.

21:41

I need to actually have the This in front of you for the moment Their primary focus is upon what

21:52

Wilson asserts was the Motivation for Augustine to go back to Manichaeism and Gnosticism and Stoicism and Neoplatonism and And basically say he got all these ideas from these other sources that he could never have gotten him from the

22:14

Bible because we know the Bible doesn't teach any of that stuff, so I got to look for something else and They've been primarily focused on this assertion that because of his battle with the

22:25

Pelagians That he developed for the first time looked at John 3 5 and And Developed the whole concept of baptism regeneration, even though people have been doing infant baptism now for you know 150 200 years

22:45

They didn't know why they're doing it and As soon as I heard that I'm like what?

22:51

John 3 5 was used that way by lots of folks before Augusta. What why is he talking about?

22:57

So their focus has been upon baptism Faith is a gift Issues like that where I've been more focused upon this idea that there is such a thing as as Stoic Gnostic Neoplatonistic Manichaean duped

23:19

And taking that apart from numerous numerous perspectives, so we sort of had differing emphases in our in our work, but this morning they mentioned an

23:30

Assertion that I Was like, what are they talking about?

23:35

I started talking about Ken Wilson saying that Augustan Actually developed

23:43

What would be the standard? scholarly interpretation of James chapter 2 today in regards to repentance and things like that and I'm like What I?

23:56

I haven't seen that. What what what you guys talking about? So they they addressed they directed me to a video that we're gonna look at and I was

24:10

Well, it's certainly confirmed for me that we need to remember that Ken Wilson teaches at one of the few

24:20

Anti -lordship free grace seminaries and This is a

24:27

Extreme minority view Extremely problematic in its fullest form.

24:34

I would say heretical That denies the centrality of repentance

24:41

If you want to go back to what was that 2000 for some reason 2004 is in my thinking

24:50

When I debated the subject of Lordship salvation as probably about 16 years ago.

24:57

They're defending Sola Fide, even though the actual people who Enunciated Sola Fide and defended

25:04

Sola Fide in the Reformation would not have recognized their construction of it at all

25:09

Robert Wilkins was the guy that I debated See that's on YouTube, isn't it?

25:18

Okay good fluence Something well, I discovered that in this interview or in this podcast

25:27

That dr. Wilson has written an article that's going to be published in SBL Well, actually

25:33

JBL, which is the Journal of the SBO I'm sorry 2005.

25:41

Okay, so a long time ago Where he argues that the modern understanding of James to Guess guess who's to blame for it

25:58

Augustine who else I Wrote, I don't know how many was it 34 pages in the guy who justifies on James 2

26:07

I don't think I ever quoted Augustine, but I Guess I just must have been repeating whatever he said anyways, because none of us ever do any original exegetical work anymore

26:16

It's just we just all ever since Augustine We just all repeat Augustine even though I had never read

26:21

Augustine on James 2 Anyways, he actually goes back to an invalid argument that Augustine makes against the

26:30

Donatists As to why they weren't truly

26:36

Christians Which is interesting because again, what was the

26:42

Reformation it was the inwardly considered It was just the victory of Augustine's doctrine of grace over Augustine's doctrine of the church.

26:48

Well What is Augustine's doctrine of the church except what grew out of his conflict with the

26:59

Donatus so There's again

27:05

No, no reformed person has any investment in Augustine's ecclesiastical argumentation

27:15

So why would we? somehow Be stuck with Augustine's interpretation of James 2 or the categories thereof

27:26

This is again another one of those instances where you just have this wild -eyed Ability to connect things that should never be connected are not to be connected shouldn't be connected

27:40

That's just sort of how it how it works Scott Johnson likes your solos background.

27:46

That's that's that's nice I Don't what was it at the start?

27:54

Oh Yeah, that is nice that is nice Good okay.

28:00

All right. Now you just gotta get the five points in there and fewer things like that and eventually

28:09

It'll have it'll be perfect. Anyway People people were playing around with graphics

28:15

We go Tuesday and throwing stuff out there and doing new things with There there now that that's so much better then that look then that look better it does it does

28:35

I just got all the extraneous stuff out of the way except for the Faithful MacBook, which has been going for man.

28:42

I don't even know what this one's this one's old. It's getting is it really? Yeah, okay

28:54

Nope late 2013 now

29:00

As new as when I got home, but even that one's getting older. So yeah late late 2013. So Yep, we've done good.

29:08

We've done good Anyway, sorry got distracted there for a second once he started playing with the graphics

29:14

So I started listening to the video. And so before we listen to the video, I would like to offer some

29:23

Thoughts on James chapter 2 and I told everybody on On the program on Twitter that you need to grab your

29:31

Bible because we definitely want to take a look at James chapter 2 Yes, we have done

29:37

James chapter 2 many times before but this is an interesting Way of doing it in the sense that we will be responding to what dr.

29:46

Wilson has to say as well so What are the issues in James chapter 2?

29:52

Well This also be useful for you, obviously if you are Involved in Event well evangelism almost anybody but especially to Mormons Mormons Utilize James chapter 2 most of the missionaries don't know that Paul didn't write

30:09

James chapter 2 I've had that thrown at me many many times. Well, I remember what Paul said faith that works is dead.

30:15

That's what Paul is anyway But A lot of people have a major misunderstanding of James chapter 2

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I am NOT however going to go into the depth that I did in The God Who Justifies toward the end of the book.

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There is I think it's a 34 page chapter is a 34 pages something like that called

30:35

James attacks empty faith That will walk through the entirety of the section with you

30:43

In the original languages and with lots and lots of commentaries cited and resources provided For you to work through it on an in -depth level but a couple things

30:57

James may be One of our earliest books there are some people who assume that it's written at least after maybe

31:04

Galatians or something like that It could be earlier There is a tremendous amount of speculation concerning its relationship to Paul's writings a lot of people assume

31:17

That James chapter 2 is a polemic against Paul I think that is utterly bogus both in its teaching as well as its historical foundation

31:26

They have to assume that acts is actually an apologetic for Paul.

31:32

That's not Accurate not historically valid There's all sorts of Believe me again, you go into the most dangerous place for a

31:41

Christian the Christian bookstore if there are any left and Or or now the most dangerous place to the

31:49

Christian is the Christian book section at Amazon Which is about only place and get books anymore Other than CBD, but I mean,

31:55

I wonder if they're gonna survive all of this and You will find

32:03

Sadly any commentary written on James today Will require you to read through pages of material on The assumed hypothetical conflict between Paul and James and I think

32:23

I provided some helpful information on that back on those background issues in the guide who justifies because there there is no conflict

32:30

Between Paul and James when you both when you allow both of them to speak and you allow everything they wrote

32:35

Remember most that stuff you're gonna be reading has a limited Pauline canon as well

32:41

In other words, it's we've written by people who don't think Paul wrote Everything that we believe Paul wrote and that everything historically has very good argument that Paul wrote anyway, so Then the issue of the context the audience

32:57

To whom James is writing obviously James is writing to Christians he calls them brethren, but Just as the writer of the

33:08

Hebrews writes to a the gathered Christian body That does not guarantee that everyone in the gathered body is in fact a

33:17

Christian that is plainly seen in Hebrews and The issue is going to come up here in James chapter 2 as well

33:27

And it's going to come up in some of the comments from the anti Lordship perspective If you're not aware of the fact the anti Lordship guys have come up with a number of interpretations of James chapter 2 because it's just so obviously contrary to their own perspective

33:49

In fact, you'll see in the in the video. They call the the most difficult text of Scripture Well, it's not by a stretched imagination verse 18 is extremely difficult only because it is so hard to punctuate to figure out what's being said to whom and where to put quotation marks because there were no quotation marks in Koine Greek in the ancient world and so But the actual overall

34:14

Intention of James is very clear and The problem is what

34:19

James presents to us is an empty faith versus a living faith a dead faith versus a living faith and He says that a dead faith cannot save Their theology doesn't allow for that any faith saves

34:34

So they actually have to come up with an idea where you can have a dead faith that can become a living faith if you

34:40

Do enough works Which we will hear them actually say when we get to that point in in playing stuff

34:45

So, let's look at James 2 let's run through it as briefly as possible but without skipping the important stuff

34:57

What you want this you want If however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the scripture and Then you'll notice

35:10

According to scripture and then in in the Greek you have the italicized which are quotations from the

35:15

Old Testament You shall love The neighbor yours as yourself.

35:21

You should love your neighbor as yourself. I love that because that comes in a holiness code That's from Leviticus 19 smack down the middle of Leviticus 18 and 20, which people say aren't relevant anymore, but that is called the

35:34

Naman Basilican the royal law There's a lot of discussion as to exactly what that refers to You are doing well

35:46

But if you show partiality you are working sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors for whoever keeps the whole of the law the entirety of the law and yet stumbles in one point he has become guilty of all

36:08

For the one saying do not commit adultery also said do not murder

36:15

If you do not commit adultery But you

36:23

Murder that's interesting. You see that in the American standard they don't In the in they well, okay

36:32

Actually, they don't agree there. I skipped one if you do not commit adultery, but you murder

36:39

You have become a transgressor of the law thus speak and thus act or do as By the law of liberty you are going to be judged so What what's interesting is the law of liberty that has just been quoted is

37:05

Straight out of the definitional portions of the Mosaic law I'm not gonna get into this today, but if you want to come up with a

37:14

Theory that basically says that the law that's written upon the heart is something other than The law that Jeremiah would have understood it to be

37:24

Doesn't seem that James agreed because the examples that he gives are stated straight out of the ten words and His point is that there is the the abiding

37:38

Moral validity of the revelation that God made of his own character in the law

37:44

Hasn't changed. In fact, if anything it was demonstrated to be central in the cross why does what's what's the whole point of the cross the the forgiveness of sin is the fulfillment of the law so Then he says

38:04

Verse 13 for judgment will be without mercy or merciless to the one not doing mercy but mercy triumphs over judgment it sounds like sort of a gnomic statement at a statement that He's not just making up on the fly here.

38:26

It's something that was generally understood By the people to whom these words were written

38:33

So there is a moral standard to the

38:39

Christian life We don't just get to eat drink and be merry for tomorrow.

38:45

We die. There is a Recognition of the continuing

38:53

Validity of God's moral standards the Christian people are to be a people who are concerned about honoring and glorifying

39:02

God in How they live? so then James asked the question

39:10

What use is it what what benefit is there my brethren if I say

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I have faith if someone says That They have faith but does not have works

39:28

Then here's an important Section here. Yes. I just wish

39:33

I could change that color because it just makes it unreadable The faith the faith that has just been referred to that faith is

39:44

Not able to save him is it or can that faith save him? There is a specific kind of faith that has identified here and this is this is where the anti Lordship people just because of their theology

40:04

Just can't stay with James. They they have to come up with some If you read some of these guys from the past It's it's amazing what they've tried to say and a faith

40:22

That has no works is not a saving faith now the

40:29

What's interesting is what we're gonna hear is Wilson's going to lump together Catholics Calvinists and Arminians as if we all have the same understanding of this and he may think that we do

40:42

He may really think that we do that's that's a that's possibility but the fact is it's the

40:48

Arminians and the cow and the Catholics that have the same understanding at this point because they both believe in synergism and they both believe that that faith is

41:02

While it may need grace in some Way shape or form grace is not in and of itself sufficient

41:12

To bring about saving faith and to maintain saving faith. I've argued for a long time that the

41:18

Reformed Have the biblical balance here to maintain sola fide

41:27

Requires that you recognize that fide is the result of divine action and divine power saving faith endures

41:38

Because saving faith comes from God. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in accordance with the purpose of God so I can affirm sola fide and Denounce any addition

41:52

To faith as the mechanism of justification and at the same time agree with James That saving faith will always be accompanied by works

42:07

It's not the works that make it saving faith The works of the evidence that it is saving faith and that is the work of the

42:15

Spirit of God So those works cannot become a meritorious addition to the work of justification

42:27

They cannot be a future ground of some Further justification if there would be such a term that would have any meaning to it

42:38

They are however Exactly what Paul said that God Ordained that we should walk in them.

42:46

That's the continuation of Ephesians 2 8 through 10 We are his workmanship creating

42:52

Christ Jesus unto good works Which God before ordained that we should walk in them.

42:57

The only way that you can walk in good deeds is by faith

43:04

So faith is ordained of God it has its origin and source in that new creation

43:12

Made by the Spirit of God so the Reformed have

43:19

No problem with what James has to say as long as you allow James to say it in the context in which he himself

43:25

Said it and that is there's a certain kind of faith that he says is dead useless worthless

43:34

And it's a faith that cannot demonstrate its reality in The only realm where human beings can see it and that is in the realm of works this is not a discussion of justification in Paul's context, this is not a discussion that indicates that James is seeing

43:55

Paul as some kind of a Interloper Someone who's gone off the reservation

44:03

No, he is talking about those people and unfortunately again

44:10

If you have had any experience in the

44:16

Christian life you have encountered many people many people who unfortunately

44:25

Fall into this category they They name it Their life doesn't show it by any by any means whatsoever.

44:35

I Mean, I'm not talking about Christian perfectionism,

44:41

I'm talking about the fact that you have spoken to people who said oh, yeah,

44:48

I'm a Christian I I I walked an aisle shook the pastor's hand got baptized and So Often you go to church.

45:01

I don't go to church. I don't have any for that Do you read your Bible not no,

45:07

I you know, I just don't I don't understand it What about that praying thing?

45:12

No, no, I you know that that seems as just too pious for me So do you think about the will of Christ for your life on any regular basis?

45:22

No, no, but I sure do like the Miami Dolphins You know, whatever

45:29

We've all met these folks. They've been given a false. Hope a false assurance from the

45:36

Free grace perspective they're Christians. They they acknowledged the facts that Jesus rose from the dead once and Then after that, hey

45:47

They you know, some of these free grace guys will say well, yeah, but now now they need to be serious about you know

45:53

Glorifying God, but they're saved and James would say no That is a dead faith.

45:59

That is a worthless faith. That is a faith that has no value whatsoever That's what's being spoken of in verse 14.

46:06

Can that face save him and the answer is No the expected answer is

46:15

No Whether you use a may or an ooh will tell you what the expected answer is and and the answer is no that that faith

46:24

Can't save him The problem is the anti -lordship position says sure any faith

46:32

Because they just simply will not Acknowledge the reality that there are people who have made professions of faith

46:40

That we're not real because since they don't believe in total depravity since they don't believe So much of what the

46:47

Bible teaches about sovereignty of God and salvation everything else then that's where they come up with this so the example

46:55

If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food and one of you says them go in peace

47:00

Be warm to be filled and yet you do not give them what is necessary their body. What use is that?

47:06

So there's the illustration. Oh I have faith and that's that's no different or better than Saying hey

47:15

If you leave your sister or brother without clothing and in need of daily food and then just say to them go in peace

47:22

Be warm to be filled Those words are empty words They were a waste of your vocal cords, they were a waste of oxygen

47:30

They were a waste of the risk of transmitting kovat 19 so They had no there was no essence to it.

47:39

There was no meaning to it What use is that? And of course, please notice that the end of verse 16

47:46

What use is that is the exact same words that started verse 14? What use is it?

47:52

I mean the exact same words So that shows you that what is being said is then summarized in verse 17 thus also

48:03

Hey pistis the faith Which is the same? Hey pistis of verse 14 the faith that faith

48:10

That has no works if it does not have works is necro dead

48:18

Why? being by itself Being by itself.

48:27

So what he's saying is that non necro living faith is

48:34

Not by itself Now the Arminian and the

48:40

Catholic are going to struggle at this point, which is why? It's pretty much

48:46

Arminianism to spawn the anti -grace stuff Because they don't the

48:52

Catholic rejects the Reformation obviously because it was aimed against them and the

48:59

Arminian is inconsistent with the Reformation because they actually agree with Rome on this and So why?

49:07

because they don't see faith as the gift of God and they don't see total depravity and they don't see the radical nature of regeneration and Then the centrality and necessity of grace to all of that so faith that has no works is

49:30

A non -existent faith. It's a dead faith. It's a faith that has no reality because biblically

49:39

Not only is faith the gift of God Ephesians chapter 2 and I didn't have to get that from Augustine.

49:45

He didn't come up with it Many people in the early church before him actually

49:52

Identified faith as the thing not the entirety of the clause, which I think it is from this context of the

49:59

Greek But not only is it the gift of God But it is the natural accompaniment of what regeneration and being made a new creature in Christ is going to be all about So the

50:16

Reformed understanding of salvation is holistic it recognizes everything God does in the in the entirety of the work in one's life

50:27

So even so faith, but it has no works is dead being by itself then verse 18 verse 18, let's let's

50:38

Bring this up here. And let me let me show you something here verse 18 is tough. Look at The number of variants here.

50:46

We've got one here One here one here one here

50:53

And one at the end of the verse now when you see that many variants that normally indicates that The scribes were struggling to understand exactly what was being communicated

51:14

And the reason is this this is the new American standard, but someone may well say quote

51:20

You have faith and I have works semicolon Show me your faith without the works and I will show you my faith by my works end quote now

51:30

So the NASB 95 edition Puts the entirety of the quotation in As one

51:44

Now I would suggest as others have suggested But some may well say quote you have faith and I have works period end quote

51:55

James continues to say show me your faith without the works and I will show you my faith by my works.

52:02

I Think that makes much more sense Because when you have this phrase here,

52:09

I'll write this a certain one will say that's That you you get that from Paul too, okay now we're gonna have an objection now we're gonna have an objection and So you there's the point is that there are numerous translations that punctuate verse 18 in different ways and the variants demonstrate that the scribes are struggling to understand

52:38

Where that punctuation logically would be going Not that they were inserting punctuation

52:44

I didn't have punctuation to insert in the technical sense that we would utilize it But I think that Despite the difficulties of the verse this term right here

52:58

Dykes on Dykes on this term is key show me

53:06

Your faith show me your faith You show me your faith apart from works

53:13

I will show my faith by my works, so the point is

53:23

This is this is written to people in Missouri Show me state is that that's show me say, okay.

53:31

I think so. Anyway, show me say Demonstrate Show in Because your words are just words

53:42

Your words are your lips moving and as we saw in the preceding verses you can say to someone be warmed and be filled

53:51

But if you don't fill the stomach they're empty words they don't have any meaning and So this is

53:58

James's point show me Words Are Empty words do not keep the unity of the church words do not avail

54:11

Show me then he says you believe that God is one you do.

54:19

Well, the demons also believe and shudder So You believe

54:25

God is one. Well, that's true as he says Carlos Poyais you do well

54:34

But Even the demons believe that and they are shuddering at the reality of that.

54:41

So the point is They can have a positive and even

54:49

Orthodox confession of faith. They can recognize a fact God is one and of course, it's a part of the

54:58

Shema Shema Yisrael Yahweh Eloheinu Yahweh Here Israel the Lord our God is one He's one

55:04

God one Lord. Wow, that's that's what separated them from all the pagans

55:12

But even the demons can have an Orthodox understanding of that reality Instead, but are you willing?

55:23

to know Oh Empty man or foolish fellow foolish man that faith apart from works is

55:34

Useless now there is a textual variant here It's interesting

55:41

You have our gay Which means useless? You've got ken a in p74 which is empty and then necra is a

55:54

Wide. Well, that's that's actually the the Byzantine reading And probably therefore the the majority reading is dead so dead

56:08

Empty and useless. Well, there's one instance where all your textual variants just basically fill out the idea

56:17

They're pretty much saying the same thing Oh Foolish fellow and Some would say that maybe the ken a here

56:27

Resulted in the reading down here in p74, but Or others would say hey, that's it's parallel.

56:34

But the point is are you willing to know? Are you willing to recognize? Oh foolish fellow that the faith going back to verse 14

56:47

The faith that is said the faith that is just spoken the faith that cannot do

56:52

Dykson it cannot show itself That faith apart from works is useless and it's in that context then that he brings up the example of Abraham and Was not our father

57:12

Abraham justified X ergo, this of course is the big

57:20

Conflict with the Roman Catholics who will say see here it is. Here's justification by faith the problem is that Abraham had been justified before this by faith rather than by works and If you understand this justification as being before God rather than The Dykson That is being demonstrated showing to Isaac and then through Isaac to the rest of the world the reality of Abraham's faith then you have an insuperable contradiction

57:55

Within scripture, which a lot that's what a lot of people do, but that would also mean that James just changed the entirety of his focus

58:03

From you show me to you show God He didn't change the entirety of his focus

58:10

It's still on the demonstration amongst men not before God So you see in verse 22 that faith soon air guy don't don't freak out too much there

58:26

Yes in air guy, that's from which we get synergism Different context though that so you see that faith working together twice ergo is out to with his works and As a result of those works that faith was made complete

58:45

So it's a real faith. It's demonstrated to be true

58:51

Faith and the scripture was fulfilled which said

58:56

Abraham believed God in his reckoning was righteous as he was called a friend of God So now you have the quotation of Genesis 15 6 his point is you see?

59:04

Yes, Abraham is justified before God in Genesis 15 but he demonstrates the abiding validity of that faith in Genesis 22 and That needs to be it's you know, you can claim the spoken faith all you want

59:22

But Abraham lived years afterwards and if he had not lived consistently with what he said where he said he believed

59:28

God that would bring his words into Question you see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone, obviously

59:37

James 2 24 the key text It's almost never the key text within Roman Catholic apologetics.

59:46

Sometimes Mormons will bring it up as well but the reality is that once we see what this justification is about and the context in which is found very very rarely is

59:57

It discussed starting back verse 10 verse 14 Some way of getting the meaningful context to be able to flow follow the flow of the argument

01:00:09

Rahab is brought up justified by works received a message or send them out by another way and Then you have this final statement for just as the body without the spirit is dead

01:00:20

So also faith without works is dead Excellent summary so if you have a words only

01:00:33

Faith that cannot demonstrate its existence. It has no more value than a dead corpse

01:00:40

Now what we're gonna hear is the Free grace guys the non -repentance anti Lordship guys

01:00:47

Don't mind if you are a corpse Because that corpse can do more good works in the future. Just need to be encouraged to do it get revved up So like maybe

01:00:56

Paula White will come along And get you all excited. Anyway, sorry about that That's still hard to watch it really is okay, so let's get to a couple sections of this video

01:01:14

From the grace cafe Let's start off however with this description

01:01:23

Listen listen to this cool tea here. You are probably well probably considered today the foremost expert on Augustine As nothing to it

01:01:34

James to But If this is an advertisement for a seminary, okay,

01:01:42

I guess I can get that but I'm sorry, I don't know of anyone outside of a very small group of provisionists who thinks

01:01:50

Ken Wilson is the Expert on Augustine. In fact, most of the people who really are experts on Augustine have spent their entire lives working on Augustine and Ken Wilson himself said in the interview

01:02:06

That he started his doctoral work without a clue as to what the early church fathers believed

01:02:16

No, sorry, we've already demonstrated so many holes in The argumentation citations and dissertation that's not funny

01:02:23

But the point is I see zero evidence that the world is knocking on Ken Wilson's door and saying would you please teach us?

01:02:31

about Augustine that's that's just That's just wild it truly is now then we had this this quick statement.

01:02:42

Thanks mark. Happy to be here You just shared with me something right before we went on air and that is that you've got an article

01:02:56

Basically and let me put it into layman's terms because I can't even get the entire Title of this article in it's being published in the

01:03:03

Journal of Biblical Literature it's on James 2 specifically James 2 verses 18 through 20 and it's the view of how

01:03:11

Augustine's approach to that passage is what colors are thinking today about this difficult passage

01:03:18

Did I put that correctly is that I've couched that well Exactly, right mark

01:03:23

So everything we understand about James 2 how we read it the context what good works are what dead faith is all those things come right out of Augustine and I show how his now

01:03:36

I Really look forward to this by the way I just I was wondering sitting here listening to it going so slowly and I this is um a

01:03:44

Program I've used before and they keep improving it which I appreciate and It's now almost up to the level of audio notetaker, but for video, which is really cool and I just found that it has a

01:03:57

Variable speed playback. I'm not sure that the lips will necessarily stay synced with the audio, but for our purposes

01:04:05

This is pretty cool. By the way, those of you looking for things like this called note studio And it it really works.

01:04:12

Well, I can sit here and as soon as I type something It time indexes what

01:04:18

I type to where it is in the video And then I select a certain tool and when I click on the time it takes me to that spot

01:04:26

That's That's what you need. That really is what you need. So no studio Thank you very much continue to do a great job with that program and I'll help to you know

01:04:35

That's something you need to do. It's something that's useful. Anyway So I'm looking forward to this

01:04:41

SPL article. I really am because I Really want to see how the

01:04:50

Exegesis I offered in the God who justifies was actually determined by someone.

01:04:56

I never read now I get it the people I did rate read. Maybe they were just all their categories were determined by a guest.

01:05:04

I get the argument I just think it's completely bogus It completely it it assumes that these guys and these guys only

01:05:14

Have gone to the Bible for just what the Bible says They are the ones without traditions, they are the ones without influences and then when we trace stuff back to Pelagius Oh, no, no, no, but but they they they

01:05:30

Ken Wilson MD hand therapist hand doctor

01:05:36

Is the first one to have recognized and he's gonna say this he's gonna I'm not putting these words and he's gonna say this to have recognized

01:05:45

The Characteristics of the Greek language that would tell us what James 2 is all about.

01:05:51

No, no one else all those thousands of pages that have been written on James chapter 2 all

01:05:58

Just a mess because of Augustine Augustine got us all wrong About that So so there you go

01:06:07

Now, I'm not sure who Mark Ray is. I assume he's probably in leadership at Grace Theological Seminary, Grace School of Theology, which is in the background there but let's

01:06:21

He said something here that caught my attention. I wanted to comment on it. If you look at the book 15 times

01:06:28

He uses the term brothers and beloved. Actually, it's in the very next section. Sorry, but let's listen this part to you.

01:06:35

Brothers So it is a Christian audience And if you try to say this is a mixed audience between Christians and non -christians, that's really an anachronistic mindset not now so if someone addresses their audience as brothers

01:06:52

Then what that means is they could never ever have the idea That there might be unbelievers in the congregation

01:07:02

Apply that to Hebrews now, maybe he would argue that there's something different about Hebrews But the the reality is that when you stand

01:07:13

Well again here see For all the rest of us other than this group

01:07:21

When you stand in front of a congregation and you say brothers and sisters What an awesome opportunity to be with you here this day.

01:07:31

We've come together to Worship the Lord Jesus Christ open his word to be obedient to him to glorify him and all things and you say brothers and sisters

01:07:41

That what that means is you are guaranteeing That every person in front of you is a

01:07:48

Christian. No, we recognize that we address the group in hope and in faith but we also recognize that That When Peter Addressed the church in Jerusalem and called them brothers and sisters

01:08:07

Ananias and Sapphira was sitting amongst them How many times how many times did

01:08:22

Paul address believers in The various cities and then later have to name names

01:08:31

People who had apostatized who had gone out Had he called them brother or sister you bet he had

01:08:39

You bet he had was he lying? For some of these guys their theology would say there's there's no such thing as apostasy

01:08:48

There's there's there's there's no one who goes back to the world. There's there's no one who ever makes a empty claim of faith

01:08:55

As as long as you say the words you're in boom got your ticket punch going to heaven You can go become

01:09:01

Buddhist doesn't matter You'll always be a true a true believer That's really the end result of this kind of thinking and it's a very very dangerous thinking

01:09:13

So the idea here is hey, if you call everybody brothers, that means you're guaranteeing everybody is well

01:09:20

That does not follow in in almost anything Here's to the section I was talking about with Mark Ray.

01:09:26

So that's where he's headed in this book Well, that makes sense because he's calling them brothers these would be ones who are already

01:09:33

Believers so to then back up and address salvation would be

01:09:38

It would make no sense in the letter to address salvation if they already have it If you read

01:09:44

Romans recently written to the church at Rome to the Saints at Rome and the whole thing's about What they already have

01:09:54

Yeah, no Hard to believe that someone in in theological education actually just sat in front of a webcam and said

01:10:02

They're not going to talk to believers about salvation because they already have salvation. I I think what they may be struggling.

01:10:10

Look, this is this is why this text for them is this text for the anti Lordship guys is

01:10:18

Jesus's prayers for the oneness people. They don't have a meaningful explanation. They had it just it just There's no way around it.

01:10:27

It's it's done. They can't do it. So I think what he's trying to say is and There's there's an element of truth here

01:10:36

James is not writing about soteriology in the sense of the initial

01:10:45

Understanding of what justification is or any of those things he's writing wisdom literature to the church

01:10:53

Very much based in for example numerous people have pointed out the parallels to the

01:10:58

Sermon on the Mount and and and things like that Extremely practical in -your -face great preaching, but it is for the congregation and it is to Leave no stone unturned in rooting out hypocrisy and partiality and all the rest that type of stuff, but You don't do that without a common commitment to the same gospel

01:11:25

It's already there. That's that's rather That's rather important Okay Here we go

01:11:33

Dive in then to chapter two. We've got audience. We've got context.

01:11:39

What is the issue? The main issue that makes this such a difficult passage

01:11:45

Well, it's Augusta to be blunt because we read it yeah, we read it through his eyes and I'll just I Haven't gotten to it yet.

01:11:57

We will I want to spread it out enough to where everybody's does not getting sick and tired of it, but You read the conclusion at the conclusion

01:12:06

This is for a man who claims to be the greatest living expert on Augusta and he really detests

01:12:11

Augusta Um, his intention is to warn us

01:12:18

Against Augusta He's the Augustans a bad man Augustans a heretic

01:12:23

Augustan taught false things Augustan brought false teachings Into the Christian faith Augustan was a bad bad bad bad bad man.

01:12:31

You read the conclusion There's there's numbered lists of all the bad characteristics the bad stuff about Augusta and The reality is in James 2 this is a textual issue.

01:12:47

This is very much based in how you understand what the gospel is and It's not about Augustan.

01:12:58

I I've never seen a standalone work on James 2 by Augustan.

01:13:04

I don't think one exists And I've I don't recall

01:13:14

But in the thousands of pages that I read as Background for the chapter in the

01:13:21

God who justifies on this subject on James 2. I don't remember Augustan That was a long time ago.

01:13:27

So maybe I missed something, but I don't remember Anyone basing anything on Augustan so To to give to Augustan the kind of position that Wilson seems to want to give to him and then claim to be the grace -loving expert on subject tells you a lot now it is interesting that prior to The program

01:13:56

I just quickly noted that John Chrysostom who is cited as A counter witness to Augustan on certain issues by Wilson Said in regards to James chapter 2 even if somebody believes rightly in the

01:14:14

Father and the Son as well as in the Holy Spirit If he does not lead the right kind of life

01:14:19

His faith will not benefit him all at all as far as his salvation is concerned For although Jesus says this is eternal life to know you the only true

01:14:26

God We must not think that merely uttering the words is enough to save us for our life and behavior must be pure as well now

01:14:34

I would not put it the way that Chrysostom did in light of what happened after Chrysostom and the

01:14:43

Continuing development of sacramentalism and everything that came along with that But he is saying

01:14:51

Why not why not look at him? He he's a contemporary with Augustan was he somehow

01:15:01

Contaminated Preface that quickly by saying by Augustan. I didn't mean to do that. I just something tap there

01:15:13

Hmm Oh, okay. All right. Let's get the next section here. We are gonna get this done eventually

01:15:20

That makes sense. I think it's a question. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah Okay, so if you go to 212

01:15:26

And start there most people start with 14. Well, wait a minute The whole thing 14 through 26, it's a sandwich if you look at 212 and 13 and then you look at 3 1 you find the context

01:15:40

So speak and so do is those who will be judged by the law of Liberty? So these are Christians being judged by the law of Liberty For judgment is without mercy to the one who show no mercy mercy triumphs over judgment.

01:15:52

He's clearly talking about Judgment and it's judgment of the Christian We believe that's at the

01:15:58

Bama Christ judgment seat because we're all gonna stand there to be judged for the works We've done whether good or bad according to Paul in 2nd

01:16:04

Corinthians 5 10. So you look at 3 1 What is 3 1 say? Well, my brethren let not many of you become teachers.

01:16:12

Why? Knowing that we will receive a stricter judgment So interestingly

01:16:18

James includes himself now if the Apostle didn't make it into heaven, we're all in trouble, you know

01:16:23

And so I don't I don't think that's the context the context is him as a

01:16:29

Christian Standing before God to be judged by his works as well as all Christians So if you understand that context and it's about Christian judgment

01:16:39

Not whether you're going to heaven or hell all of a sudden it opens up the passage and you start getting word

01:16:44

But James is really trying to say. Yeah So here is the the entire theory?

01:16:50

That is being put forth is that What James chapter 2 is actually talking about is judgment of works

01:16:59

Before the Bema seat the mercy seat of Christ referred to by Paul elsewhere and that this is not a discussion of a difference between a said faith and a actual living faith

01:17:19

They have to do this because again their theology all faith is saving faith if there is any faith at all

01:17:26

It's saving faith. This is what they think sola fide is that's never what the Reformers to find the sola fide, of course But that's what they think sola fide is and by the way

01:17:33

There was possibly one reformed guy that went way out into the ozone layer said some similar things once but don't get into that Right now it's highly inconsistent anyway

01:17:45

And so this is all just about judgment of works

01:17:52

Not about the actual nature of faith Which of course as we as walked through James to you

01:17:57

So we saw it was actually about there's no reference here to the Bema seat. There's nothing like that And this is talking about being able to differentiate between people who have and by the way the showing

01:18:11

Dykes on in 218 is In this life, it's not it's not eschatological.

01:18:17

It's not down the road. It's in this life. It's right now And that's that's very very key to the whole the whole issue but this is the theory the theory is we can make all this go away by saying that all is being discussed here is the eventual judgment of works

01:18:34

Which is interesting because that's the the works are never said to be judged in James chapter 2 Not only is the

01:18:40

Bema seat not there but there's nothing about the judgment of works it's us it's the statement of faith

01:18:47

Now see Paul does talk about the testing of works and motivations

01:18:53

Elsewhere, you know to the Corinthians chapter 3, but he doesn't this is that's not what's being discussed here

01:19:00

So you you jump to a different context import that in here and see oh, this isn't really talking about Dead faith, even though that's repeated more than once.

01:19:11

It's not really about it's actually we're talking about something completely different Let's go to the next one right here

01:19:18

Defined for me dead faith Okay, so there are two views on that Well, they're probably more of a two basic views.

01:19:26

One is the dead faith means false faith that comes from Augustan If you look at the word necross,

01:19:33

I would love to see how this comes from Augustan because I just quote Chris system and I think

01:19:39

Chris system Expressed exactly that concept didn't he didn't he? Didn't he say we must not think that merely uttering the words is enough to save us isn't is that what he's talking about?

01:19:51

Something tells me I could probably find some stuff before then Too so, you know all bad stuff evidently comes from Augustan Everything was great before then everything was wonderful and If you actually read much if you read the

01:20:08

Shepherd of Hermas if you read Epistle Barnabas You realize things were not all that good from the start depending on who you're reading

01:20:14

But it's all Augustan's fault and I would love to know I'm looking forward to this article

01:20:20

Uh -oh, the verb anywhere in the New Testament or even the Old Testament you go back in the

01:20:25

Septuagint You can't find it means false every time it means dead If you look at this is a this this is a point that doesn't mean anything a

01:20:37

In the context of James chapter 2 Someone is saying I have faith

01:20:44

James says it's a dead faith without works Therefore can that faith save him and his answer is no it can't that's against their theology

01:20:56

So now they're off beating a dead horse in the field about what doesn't mean false faith.

01:21:02

It means dead faith Well dead faith can't save either and the only reason you're using false is over against in verse 18 a true faith that can

01:21:14

Demonstrate its reality By how it lives in this life. So false is not meant as A substitute for dead.

01:21:23

It's just in the contrast of a living. So if you want to use living and dead

01:21:28

True and false are simply the same categories. You're not you're not proving anything

01:21:34

Abraham but it talks about his body being dead or Sarah's womb being dead. It wasn't actually false.

01:21:41

He didn't have And I do this to my students. I say the faults in Christ will rise first What's wrong

01:21:49

I if that's what he does to his students I I feel sorry for his students I hope that the students can can see you just cough again

01:22:01

Allergies, oh sure. Don't you realize There are no allergies anymore.

01:22:07

There's no flu. There's no pneumonia all Diseases have been cured by kovin 19.

01:22:15

Yeah, that's true. You don't die of anything other than that now It cured everything.

01:22:21

That's what everybody dies of now is so if you you don't have allergies, that's just early -onset kovin

01:22:31

It's true, I mean look at the numbers everybody's dying to cover doubts nobody dies anything else

01:22:37

That's why we're all running around Virtue signaling. Okay. All right. I'm sorry. I'm It's not my fault.

01:22:45

He coughed. I didn't make him cough. I didn't do that for this picture So it means it means if you go to Abraham and Sarah, it means it's useless

01:22:52

I mean, it's it's not working properly and that's much different than false now

01:22:57

It's not working properly is not the same thing as dead.

01:23:04

I mean, are you Like we are we seriously gonna suggest That if you look at a corpse that an appropriate

01:23:17

Observation is It's not working properly No, it's dead

01:23:26

There's a difference and that's the difference that this group denies

01:23:31

This group is literally going to say You don't want to have a dead faith then pump it up Get it work do good works

01:23:44

I've told the story many times before I was department fellow at Adam in physiology under dr James Witherspoon at Grand Canyon University.

01:23:51

I just saw an article. I don't how I tracked it Oh, I was looking for something about somebody else and came across this article and there was there was dr.

01:23:59

Witherspoon I was so excited to see him again Wonderful guy spent a lot of time with him He was writing one of his textbooks at a time and he hired me to do proofreading with them

01:24:08

And so it was it was a lot of fun, but I was his partner fellow in anatomy physiology. So I demonstrated the cadavers

01:24:17

We got cadavers in the spring of 1985 I graduated in 85. So that was the time when

01:24:23

I was his department fellow and So we had cold not cold storage cadavers chemical storage cadavers we had something called phenol still can smell to this day and I would do the

01:24:35

Quincy thing and nobody in this audience hardly anymore remembers the Quincy thing You have to be really old to remember the

01:24:40

Quincy thing But the Quincy thing the Quincy Quincy was the medical examiner in LA. It was a TV program about him

01:24:46

What was that Jack Klugman? Jack Klugman played Quincy and He would pull the sheet back from these dead bodies and these these young cops and like that would all just pass out from what?

01:24:56

He was doing. Well, I got to do that for real with mainly with high school students Never lost one, but I had a few that ended up, you know this other room, but I would demonstrate the cadavers

01:25:07

And I've told the story many times that With with Willie and those are their real names

01:25:12

Willie and Clara with Willie You could literally take we had cut his ribs so you could take his chest off to see you know

01:25:21

The lungs the heart by the way, Willie smoked his entire life Anywhere you cut in his lungs was pitch black and you could point to the spot on his heart

01:25:33

Where he blew up and died Just keep that in mind when you're thinking about that guys.

01:25:39

Anyway Here's the point. I Could do anything.

01:25:45

I wanted to that cadaver and I could not Pump it up It ain't getting off that that slab ever again.

01:25:53

It's dead and Dead bodies don't pump themselves up with good works

01:26:01

Not possible not possible, but that's what you're gonna get out of these guys.

01:26:07

It's It's pretty amazing That it so not working properly, isn't that great?

01:26:13

There you go just a couple more quotes here we'll get through this and visual Oh, absolutely

01:26:19

Marcus If you look at the last verse of that chapter for as the body without the spirit is dead So faith without works is dead.

01:26:24

Also, the works of what actually energize our faith. It gets it's going again Right.

01:26:30

I can't say it it it gets us going again You can you can get a dead faith going again, so it's not dead

01:26:41

See these guys do cannot deal with James to they always have to engage in face planting eisegesis

01:26:52

Face planting eisegesis to try to get around James chapter 2 Because it doesn't teach what they teach

01:27:02

So you need works to get it going again That sounds like a once -living faith.

01:27:08

That's still alive and you just need to resuscitate it in some way, but it's dead

01:27:14

That's the whole point. It's dead in your fire analogy. I compare it to I mean a medical doctor at corpses

01:27:20

I mean, let's let's look at this if you're walking along and you find a dead body there I mean some you see a corpse.

01:27:25

You don't think oh, this is a false body No, it's he used to be alive,

01:27:31

I mean, you know, this isn't a fake body it was alive and now it's dead So with that analogy,

01:27:37

I think it's a little graphic. But yeah bear with me that that's what he's trying to say Yes, your faith has to be energized by works.

01:27:45

It needs to come alive. Just as you said with the fire Your faith has to be energized by works.

01:27:50

It has to come alive Right, which means it's not a dead faith

01:27:58

That's the whole point That's what makes faith real faith

01:28:06

Living faith and If those works are never there, it's dead faith and cannot save you according to James 2 14 right and see if you're a

01:28:22

Calvinist you're sitting there going yeah to all of that unless you're a

01:28:28

Calvinist that's lost track of the Reformation and everything has come afterwards and Thinks that you can't talk about.

01:28:35

Well, there are there are Calvinist thing though. Yeah, there's Calvinist thing along those lines. Definitely No, no two ways about it.

01:28:41

There are a lot of Calvinists there. There are Calvinists who have become Scared of James 2

01:28:49

Not recognizing that as long as you recognize the origin of regeneration and faith

01:28:56

Man the New Testament is a wonderfully balanced Revelation from God it really is

01:29:03

So thankful for it. So thankful for it and Nowhere in it. Does James make the impression that if you don't do works, you don't have faith.

01:29:13

See that did you hear that? Nowhere Does James say give the impression that if you don't do works, you don't have faith.

01:29:22

What are You reading that's exactly what he's saying.

01:29:27

That's the central point That's the central point Let me

01:29:33

I've you've got to hear that again You've got to hear that again. It energized by works.

01:29:39

It needs to come alive. Just as you said with a fire and Nowhere in it. Does James make the impression that if you don't do works, you don't have faith

01:29:49

He's and see what Wilson's doing Right, yeah, he okay

01:29:59

Rich has corrected me. Thank you very much rich. I pray. I'm so thankful that you're still with us despite dying of Kovat in there

01:30:11

Yes, I did he he said he but what he said he doesn't he said he doesn't give the impression

01:30:19

He actually stayed it straight up front He Didn't leave it to impressions.

01:30:24

He actually said it if you don't have works you don't have faith He said it straight out and these guys that are going.

01:30:33

Yeah, I never did never said that Said that in yourself going. Oh Okay, all right

01:30:41

This is extremely useful For the demonstration of how powerful tradition is it may be a new tradition

01:30:49

It may be a tradition has no foundation in history or anything like that But It's a it's a strong strong strong tradition.

01:30:59

It really really is in that amazing Okay, two more quotes two more quotes back on this again.

01:31:05

So we understand that issue Yeah, so the the classic view Catholics Calvinists or minions you keep going works demonstrate true faith

01:31:17

Works demonstrate true faith you don't have works you have false faith. So that's the Augustinian view

01:31:22

So you see how this is working now, so Catholics Calvinists are minions you throw them all together

01:31:30

Wilson has demonstrated in interviews and published works an ability to cross categories

01:31:42

When it comes to theological Connectivity in the most muddled fashion of almost anyone

01:31:50

I've ever encountered so far Okay In my experience

01:31:57

This normally comes from people who have been pressed Into positions they were not prepared to take

01:32:05

That's been my experience in my life be as it may as I point out

01:32:12

Catholics and Arminians being synergists

01:32:18

Have different questions to deal with in this text than the Calvinists do I? Think we have a very strong and consistent

01:32:28

Interpretation to offer in this text, but that's the Augustinian view. So just think about that for a second

01:32:36

The Catholics with all their sacramentalism the

01:32:42

Arminians Without the sacramentalism, but was still with the emphasis upon a an autonomous will

01:32:49

And then the Calvinists who don't have either one in those senses Calvinists have a higher liturgy and a certainly higher view of sacraments but not sacramentology like Rome has seven sacraments means of grace in the sense of Ex -opera operato and all the rest of it.

01:33:03

You throw them all together and say that's the Augustinian view, but keep in mind

01:33:11

What's interesting here? the Augustinian view That is derived from the

01:33:18

Donatist period not the Pelagian period So again, I'm really looking forward to this article

01:33:24

I'm not sure that dr. Wilson is looking forward to my looking forward to this article But I am

01:33:29

I am looking forward to to the article. It should be quite interesting last one. Yeah Why is this a viewpoint that has been held so tightly by so many groups?

01:33:39

And certainly can there have been scholars down through the ages that could have seen something as simple as Verses 12 and 13 and in verse in chapter 3 verse 1.

01:33:49

Oh, it's so simple No one else has ever read Verses 12 and 13.

01:33:55

No one else has ever read chapter 3 verse 1 Even though when I was in Bible College, I had to diagram all these sentences and connect them together

01:34:04

But hey, no one is no one before the great. Dr. Wilson has ever seen these things No, we are that it has been up to us the free gracers to see what no one else has ever ever seen

01:34:16

It gets scary It really gets scary when you when you start hearing that It that that's that's not a good thing as the fan the bookends to this argument

01:34:29

Why has this been held for so long? That's a great question And I point out that I think it's simply because the prestige of Augustine and habit people have have missed

01:34:39

I talked about in the chapter the whole idea of now. This is interesting This is interesting catch this because I know it's the last quote

01:34:47

So it's easy to start tuning out and get ready for something else But listen, listen, he says here demons believe in tremble is not spoken by James.

01:34:53

It's spoken by the Imaginary objector the interlocutor we have just taken that and the the

01:34:59

Greek diatribe there's a very specific way you you're supposed to read this in Greek and there are markers telling you who starts and who stops and It's all messed up scholars know the diatribe, but this theology is so ingrained.

01:35:13

They can't bring themselves to admit Oh, wait a minute. It's the objector who says the demons believe in tremble.

01:35:20

No now I Again, I can't wait for this because as I said the textual variance in 218

01:35:31

Extremely important. I want to see what he thinks. This is because I've read a lot of scholarship on James chapter 2

01:35:39

I'd like I'm gonna be interested in seeing how widely he's read in that same scholarship But I'm really looking forward to seeing what kind of argumentation he's gonna be able to provide especially in light of In fact what

01:35:54

I'll be really interested in I just just thought of this is I Want to look at 218 in the

01:36:02

ECM because that's that is out the CBGM Data is available. So I will definitely be pulling that in once this article is is available

01:36:13

That'll be interesting the author of James. So Wow, there it goes

01:36:19

Point that out and they and the editors agreed. They said we don't know how we miss this So did you catch that this is about his article he says and the editors agreed we don't know how we miss that Now remember in the interview.

01:36:35

This is the guy saying yeah, nobody else has ever read Augustan in chronological order I think he actually thinks

01:36:42

I think he actually believes this that's that's what's frightening because People have done that for a long time

01:36:50

There that's just that's just absurd to think that you're the first one to have ever done this But Still the edit.

01:36:58

Oh, wow. We've never seen that. You're the most brilliant scholar to walk the planet

01:37:07

Okay, okay He really honestly thinks that he has discovered something and no one else has ever seen

01:37:16

So I'm looking forward this article. This is gonna be this You know when when you get and when you find something that no one else has ever ever known before that's a

01:37:28

That's that's important. That's good. So yeah, there you go Yeah, hopefully walking through James two has been helpful in understanding

01:37:41

What it's actually about and in responding to people's abuse of it

01:37:48

But how is this relevant everything else we've been doing well, I think it gives you some of the mindset that dr

01:37:55

Wilson's bringing into his studies and there is a strong strong commitment to a very anthropocentric perspective that is

01:38:09

As I was reading last week, I would go Augustin plays this game

01:38:14

Augustin redefines it. There's this constant negativity this constant judgment in the language that is used

01:38:20

Where is that coming from? And why does he interpret Augustin the way they did? Why did he take?

01:38:26

Why did he take O'Meara and O'Meara's statement which is about one thing and attribute it to Augustin that Augustin could believe

01:38:34

That it was just a small step from being a Manichaean to being a Christian when that's not what

01:38:40

O'Meara was saying That's not what Augustin would say. That's not a fair reading of Augustin Why then did he say it because he has a massive not just bias prejudice anti Augustinian prejudice and it's seen here in the isogesis of James two

01:38:59

And Something tells me maybe I'll predict Possibly the article is going to contain the same type of stuff.

01:39:08

What do you think? Maybe? Yeah, probably so All right.

01:39:13

Well, that's it Like I said, I was literally getting ready It was 1140 is now 339.

01:39:21

So it was it was four hours ago That I got the Facebook Messages from the guys that are they're working on a book in response to Wilson.

01:39:29

I'm encouraging them to do it They've been doing a lot of work And I got that Facebook message.

01:39:35

I'm like, I don't remember that. Oh, well, here's the video and Thanks to note studio

01:39:42

And the takeout service at my favorite little restaurant Which was hard to get to because they're repaving 35th

01:39:48

Avenue, which I'm very glad they're doing But getting in and out is tough right now.

01:39:55

Oh, I know I know I know but they just figure hey We let's get this done now where there's no traffic. That's that's cool.

01:40:00

No, no worries I Can't complain 35th has been a cow path for quite some time.

01:40:08

Anyway, you all don't care about that I'm sorry. Um, yeah rich and I are just talking we can go ahead and wrap this up I'm not

01:40:15

I think we're supposed to see you tomorrow Maybe but we'll let you know till then.