October 30, 2018 Show with Jeff Downs on “From Drugs to Delivered”

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's.

Our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are

listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this

30th day of October 2018.

I'm delighted to have for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

someone whom I have known for quite a number of years, going at least all the way back

to the origins of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in 2005 when broadcasting out of New

York, but in all this time that I've known Jeff Downs, this will be our first interview.

Some of you may recognize his name immediately from blog articles he has written for Alpha and Omega

Ministries.

That's the ministry of Dr. James R. White and he is going to be installed officially

this Friday as the pastor of Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church, which is a congregation in the

Presbyterian Church in America, also known as the PCA, in Mechanicsville, Virginia.

And today we are going to be addressing from drugs to delivered and we're also going to be

announcing the upcoming conference at Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, Virginia, where

Pastor Jeff will be speaking on that very same theme alongside of

Lowell Ivey, who we had interviewed yesterday on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Lowell Ivey, a former white supremacist gang member in prison who was given

true freedom in Christ when being saved in prison and having remained

there for nine subsequent years as a Christian.

And we also had Fred Sloan, one of the other speakers at the conference, coming up

this Saturday.

And he was speaking about why a prison ministry is necessary.

So we hope that as many of you as possible attend that conference this Saturday.

But let me now introduce you for the very first time as a guest.

On Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Jeff Downs.

Hello, Chris.

Jeff Downs here.

So grateful to...

Yeah, I first became acquainted with James in the 90s and became

a friend that has formed a friendship that has lasted all these years.

In 1996, or perhaps a little bit before that, 95, the first debate that I

arranged for him with Jerry Matitick's Roman Catholic apologist, who is now a

Sedevacantist Roman Catholic apologist, which is... there's probably about, I don't know,

three of them in the world.

But I can recall for quite a number of years seeing your blog

articles on the Alpha and Omega Ministries website.

How did that meeting take place between you and James originally, and how did you

begin working with him?

Well, I guess I've just been listening to his podcast, and then I wanted to get him out to

Pennsylvania.

Well, yeah, he spent a few of his childhood years in Mechanicsburg.

Mechanicsburg, yeah.

I got him out there for a conference, and he spoke many hours when he talks about

any complaint day.

He was

worn out,

and coming out,

I posted, you don't need to do that because they're

not doing that kind of work.

Passing on resources to James.

Pyromaniacs, you know, had their team.

Yeah, Phil Johnson.

James decided to put a team together, and I was just part of it, and I'm

grateful for that.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, you had the honor of.

Having a caricature drawn of you along with James White and his

other team members.

Yeah, and I had the privilege of having the peace sign over James White's head.

That was you, that's right.

What a privilege

to be a part of that.

Well, now tell us about Knox Reform Presbyterian Church, which is a PCA church,

a church in the Presbyterian Church in America denomination in Mechanicsville, Virginia.

That's correct.

We're in the James River Presbyterian

Church, a 20 -mile church.

I've been

here since

listening, and have been the only ones

here.

My boy is 16.

We could use some children.

It's a small church.

I think they've only had two pastors.

We hold to the regulative principle.

We have a

simple...

The

letter was introducing

the church to the community, and, you know, it was all about the rock and

band that they had, and the messages that were relevant.

And I'm thinking to myself, you know, it's very appealing.

It's very appealing to people, and I understand that, but why not just Christ?

You know, we preach Christ being crucified.

We want you to come because we want you to worship the Lord.

Now, you'll benefit from that.

You'll be blessed by it, I guarantee it, but we're not coming for us, right?

We're coming to give glory and praise and honor to God.

And thinking about these things, and, you know, the Lord grows the

church, but He uses how

we reach the community

to bring kids into the church.

When you have churches like that, you know, churches that are showing movies and things like that, it's very difficult,

but we pray and hope the Lord.

Like I said, we meet...

We are a small church.

We have one service at this point.

We meet 11 o 'clock for worship, 9 .30 for...

We do what we do.

I just got done

preaching on the

Beatitudes.

We...

Sunday, I preached on Psalm 133, and then

I'll probably start, but

just be in here for a

little

while.

Great, and anybody who wants to find out more about the Knox Reformed

Presbyterian.

Church in Mechanicsville, Virginia, you can go to knoxreformedpres .org.

K -N -O -X -R -E -F -O -R -M -E -D -P -R -E -S .org.

Knoxreformedpres .org.

Now, tell us a little bit about the conference that you have coming up at Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church in

Mechanicsville, Virginia, this Saturday.

Okay.

Chris, if you don't mind, before I jump into that, let me mention also

World Religions of the Young.

I love doing that.

I love putting on conferences and seminars.

I love...

Great, yeah, and judging from the fact that your email address includes the words

countercult, I guess that's a subject that's near and dear to your heart.

Actually, I got that.

I'll come up with an email address for something.

Great.

Sounds great.

Well, once again, go to knoxreformedpres .org if you want.

Details about the conference, and if you want to hear the interviews that I conducted with the two

other speakers, they should be already archived at the ironsharpensironradio

.com website, but if you go to past shows podcast, and

you type in the search engine, the first interview with Fred Sloan, you just need to

type in S -L -O -A -N, and you'll get that interview, and if you want to listen to the interview with

Lowell Ivey, type in I -V -E -Y, and you will get that

interview, and both of them were wonderful interviews.

I really enjoyed both of them immensely, and I look forward to having both of those men back on the show.

Well, you have a testimony that is not

far apart from my own in regard to the fact that the Lord

rescued you from addiction.

In my case, it was alcohol.

In your case, it was drugs, I'm assuming, and so tell us about your story, your

entire story, beginning from the kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in as a

child, if any, and what tragic circumstances took place later

in your life that led you into drugs, and eventually we want to hear the good news about how the

Lord providentially used circumstances in your life that drew you to himself, and eventually you.

Were

saved by

his

precious

blood.

You

are

the

only

Reformed

breakdancer

I

know

of.

I say I'm pretty good at it still, but I haven't tried it.

I'm sure I would break a lot of things if I attempted breakdancing.

That's

right.

You're

18, you're this guy, this guy to him, and I don't

know

if

I was

just

scared.

Praise God.

And, well, tell us about how you discovered and embraced Reformed theology.

Well, I got clean in 1991, and right

away...

Oh yeah, I

definitely remember those days,.

And my friend Ken Samples was on the team with Hank Enegroff.

This is before Hank was doing the show solo.

He had several people typically on with him.

Ron Rhoad,.

Elliot Miller.

That was also when, every Friday, they'd play Walter Martin,

and so I started listening to that pretty much again right away.

Back then,

I haven't seen any, but maybe

they still do have, you know, get their number off TV, call them,

and at that time, I

probably wasn't a

little bit about it, and we

want you to know.

That's where

Stephen J. Nichols used to be,

correct?

Yeah, that's right.

He

still looks like

he's 19 years old.

I spoke to a friend of mine.

He said, well, he does have a little bit of wrinkle now in his face.

Well, very little, though.

He's a youthful looking

person

in

Lancaster.

Yeah, I've been there for a Ligonier conference, at least one.

Mm

-hmm, yep.

It

wasn't

in

college,

even before

that.

Yeah, I remember it well.

Going back to your being transformed by Christ, when we come

back from our break, I'd like you to give us some details about

how you, you know, completely set the drugs aside.

We would like to know if there was a period of strong temptation to return, and all those kinds.

Of things that maybe...

Yeah, like I said, I skipped a couple things, so yeah, we'll come.

Back to that.

Right, and we're going to be going to our first break right now.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at

gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away, we'll be right back with Jeff Downs after these messages from our sponsors.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

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Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastor's Study,.

Because everyone needs a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in.

Our guest today is Jeff Downs.

He is the newly installed pastor as of this Friday at

Knox Reform Presbyterian Church, which is a congregation in the PCA, Presbyterian Church in America, in

Mechanicsville, Virginia.

We are discussing his testimony, From Drugs to Delivered, which is also one of the

speaking themes that Jeff will be conducting at the upcoming

conference at Knox Reform Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, Pennsylvania.

I'm Virginia, I'm sorry.

This is Mechanicsburg here, so I kind of got that mixed up a little bit.

He's going to be joined by Fred Sloan and Lowell Ivey at that

conference, and I had both Fred and Lowell on Friday

and yesterday on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I hope you look up their interviews on the archive at

ironsharpensironradio .com as soon as you have time after this live program, of course.

We don't want you to leave this live program to get to those pre -recorded shows.

If you have any questions, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail

.com.

Before I go to our listener question, we actually have a listener question from Dr. George

Cipioni, who is an adjunct professor, and he also is the director of the

Biblical Counseling Institute at Reform Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

He has a question for you.

I did not know, perhaps he doesn't know you personally, but it's interesting that he's...

No, he does.

Okay, great.

Before we go to his question, pick up where we had you

being delivered from your drug addiction, and I know that not every single Christian

is a cookie cutter of other Christians when it comes to many, if not most,

things in life.

We may be all saved by the same gospel and saved by the same blood of the same

Jesus Christ, and we are both guided by the same inerrant God

-breathed words of Scripture, but our testimonies may not mirror each other.

Like, for instance, when it comes to addiction, some people are immediately delivered from these

kinds of addictions, drug or alcohol.

Some of them, they struggle greatly with them for a long time until they finally are...

before they finally receive a full deliverance.

People like me, I quit cold turkey when I first became a

Christian.

I quit alcohol, which I was quite notorious for over -imbibing in my

community.

I quit for 18 years and led a completely sober Christian life for

18 years, and then sadly went back into that addiction

and was rescued once again out of it by our Lord, this time at Hebron Colony Ministries, which is

a Christian alcohol and drug recovery ministry in Boone, North Carolina, which I

always take every opportunity I can to sing the praises of Hebron Colony.

HebronColony .org is their website.

HebronColony .org.

But each time I quit, I was

immediately delivered.

In fact, oddly enough, delivered from the temptation or the desire

to have alcohol.

Of course, since my testimony, as I already said, after 18 years, I started to desire it.

It was more that I desired to self -medicate because of depression and things like that,

but when I was delivered from it this time around, I

also immediately seemed to lose any interest in.

The consumption of alcohol.

But tell us about your own story.

Yeah,

but

once

I got...

Really?

Yeah,

you know,

just one length.

A lot

of millennials have no idea what you're talking about, right?

And I have two pictures of me when, during my years and

days, my hair wasn't

in my

mind.

I don't

know.

Praise

God

for that.

Yeah, no

doubt.

But like

I

said,

you know,

whether

in

91, went

into

the

rooms.

He

ended

up,

he's

in

the room,

not

clean.

I

had

chains hanging down to

the

ground,

the

cooler

you

are.

Praise God.

Well, you

mentioned

something

that.

Is very controversial, even amongst Christians.

You mentioned Narcotics Anonymous, and of course, that would immediately bring to mind, in

the minds of many, Alcoholics Anonymous, AA, AA and NA are

different recovery groups.

And I happen to have serious

misgivings or apprehensions and opposition to the

AA and NA groups.

I'm not saying that they have not been used to rescue a people

out of addiction.

But I think that the structure of them really

contradicts and conflicts with biblical theology in many points.

And I think that very often, those places become a

replacement for the church.

I have even heard people tell me that this is now my church.

People who once were professing Christians, who say, this is now my church.

It's interesting how they, very often, these groups will have infighting,

just like denominations of Christianity.

You'll have people say, now that group over at that church,

they don't go by the book.

And they're not talking about the Bible.

They're talking about the AA manual.

I also think that those places, can be very dangerous for women

and girls.

In fact, I know someone personally that was assaulted

by an AA leader.

So I mean, I have my strong opinions about that.

And I don't have time to articulate all of the reasons.

But what are your thoughts on those groups?

Maybe it's

a program.

Right.

So that's why I said that I have no problem

saying that they have been used to rescue many people, who knows, maybe even

millions.

And the reason why I don't think that's a good enough reason to promote them is, I'm sure there have

been countless thousands who have been delivered from addiction by joining the Church of

Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, or becoming Jehovah's Witnesses.

We all know that, or many of us know anyway, that the Nation of Islam

has been used to rescue black folks involved in

addiction and involved in criminal behavior.

And they have cleaned up their lives and have become responsible citizens and so on.

But that's still a dangerous and damning cult.

So I'm sorry I interrupted you.

I just wanted to put my two cents in there.

Having a

zeal to the way we

pray in

Christ's name.

A friend and I

went off

to

Bible

college

and then going to

church, and to

say that's where the action is.

Not feeling the use or

anything like that, which I

haven't.

You can

change.

I'm not sure

if I'd recommend it.

Yeah, just like there are Reformed Christians that were saved through the altar calls at the Billy Graham

Crusades, even some have written against them after they came to the Reformed faith.

But just because something can be used of God to deliver somebody

from some specific kind of sinful activity does not mean that the approach or

organization is biblically faithful.

One of the things that I always found puzzling about the 12 steps, for instance, is

that, let's see, I'm looking at them right now.

And let's see.

The second step is that I came to believe that a power

greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

And then the third step is that I made a decision to turn my will and my

life over to the care of God as I understood him.

Now, if you're insane, if you came to believe that

a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity, and then I made a decision, while

insane, to turn my will and life over to the care of a God as I understood him, how could an

insane person choose a God according to his understanding

when he's insane?

Is what I'm making sense here?

Oh, yeah.

And, you know, kind of describes it too.

Which is blasphemous, obviously.

Right, exactly.

That's a Roman's word for us, right?

Right.

Well, we have to get to our midway break right now.

This is our longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires

of us every day to take a longer break in the middle because they have to localize Iron Trip and Zion

Radio to Lake City, Florida, and air their own commercials and public service announcements during this break.

So I would urge you to use this time wisely and please write down the information provided by our

advertisers so that you can more quickly and successfully and more frequently

patronize them.

Because the more you patronize my advertisers, the more likely they are going to remain my advertisers.

And we rely upon my advertisers, the funding that comes from their

sponsorship, we rely upon that to remain in existence.

So please write down that information.

And also write down a question for Jeff Downs.

And the email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail

.com.

And please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a

personal and private matter.

And I can readily understand a topic like this lending itself to a

personal and private matter because it's involving addiction.

So feel free to write in anonymously if you if you choose to, if it's about a personal and private matter.

And don't don't worry, Dr. Cipioni, we will get to your question when we return from the break.

So thank you for your patience.

Don't go away, God willing, we are going to be right back with Jeff Downs right

after these messages from our sponsors.

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Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ

at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier

Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information.

Can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

Hello, my name is James Renahan, and I'm the.

President of IRVS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

The Word of God says, if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.

Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry?

Twenty years ago, the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary, California was born.

For those two decades, these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist

churches.

It has been a wonderful partnership.

Now, we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to

the Master of Divinity degree.

This is IRVS Theological Seminary.

We believe that the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God, that Jesus Christ

is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life, death, and resurrection, and that the task of the church is to

honor and serve the triune God in all things.

IRVS Theological Seminary is dedicated by God's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to

these doctrines.

Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ in his church as a pastor?

Why not consider IRVS Theological Seminary?

You'll find more information at irvsseminary .org.

That's irvsseminary .org, two S's in the middle.

I hope to hear from you soon.

God bless you.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

advertisers.

I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively

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Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?

We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you.

There are four ways you can help.

First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio?

Second, whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise,

and then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to our website at

IronSharpensIronRadio .com and click support at the top of the page.

But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.

We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses you.

For many years to come.

Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan has a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself.

Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible.

Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy and currently his firm has over 100

cases that have settled for $1 million or more and in approximately 10

different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal.

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you

call Dan.

Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878.

1 -800 -669 -4878.

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them

affordable to everyone.

Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available Christian books

and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because, frankly, much of what

is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and

otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is cvbbs .com.

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work

in service to you, the Church, and to Christ.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com.

That's cvbbs .com.

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard.

About them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

And you can call cvbbs .com at their toll -free number Monday through Friday

from 10 a .m. to 4 .30 p .m. Eastern Time.

And when you mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, you will receive free

shipping if you order a minimum of $50 or more, and you'll also receive the book Everyone's Luther

absolutely free of charge.

The toll -free number is 800 -656 -0231.

800 -656 -0231.

And as I said, mentioned Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

We have a few more announcements to make about special events coming up that I hope you will attend,

that I will be attending.

First of all, next week I am going to, God willing, be at

the Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology.

This is a conference that is held annually at the

Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

And this is November 9th and the 10th in Quakertown.

It is an event of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

And the theme this year of the Quakertown Conference on Reform

Theology is the glory of the cross.

I will be manning an exhibitor's booth there, so I hope that if you attend, you greet me during a break while

I'm manning the Iron Sharpen's Iron exhibitor's booth.

The roster of speakers includes David Garner, Ray Ortlund, Richard Phillips, Timothy

Gibson, and Carlton Nguyen.

That's November 9th and the 10th at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

To register, go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet .org.

Then coming up in January, which will be here before you know it, I will be heading out to

Atlanta, technically College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta, as you've been hearing James

White and Todd Friel and Phil Johnson announce during advertisements during this

broadcast, the G3 Conference.

It is such a phenomenal event.

This January is on the theme, The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions.

And it's being held from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th.

There is an all -Spanish edition.

If you have Spanish -speaking or bilingual friends, you might want to tell them about the Spanish Conference on Wednesday, January

16th.

But as far as the English -speaking conference, from the 17th through the 19th, they have an enormous

roster of speakers, as they always do, that I hope you will take advantage of

seeing and hearing.

You have, first of all, James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, John Piper, Stephen J. Lawson, Vody

Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M. Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson.

We have Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Stephen J. Nichols, friend of our

guest today, Jeff Downs, Stephen J. Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College, the

college founded by R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, Don Curran, Cindy Curran, and many more are

on this lineup.

For more details, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

I strongly recommend that you also register for an exhibitor's booth if you have a

church, parachurch, ministry, business, professional practice, or special event of some kind that you want to promote

at the G3 Conference, because they are expecting between four and five thousand people.

So it's an ideal place to have an exhibitor's booth.

So if you are in that category of having something to promote, go to

g3conference .com and not only register to attend, but register for an exhibitor's booth

as well.

Of course, if you just want to attend, that is the same address.

That's g3conference .com.

Please tell everybody that you heard about the G3 Conference, which stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, from Chris

Arnzen on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Then I will be also attending, God willing, the Deep South Founders

Conference.

That is from January 24th through the 26th in Laurel,

Mississippi, and the speakers include my dear friend Dr.

Conrad Mbewe, the pastor of Coboata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and also Chancellor of

African Christian University.

He is a highly sought -after conference speaker, I think the most powerful preacher of the gospel alive on the planet Earth.

Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason Goodwin, and Bobby Crenshaw.

They will all be on that roster, God willing, at the Deep South Founders Conference, January 24th through

the 26th in Laurel, Mississippi.

If you would like to join me in attending this event at Bethlehem Baptist

Church in Laurel, Mississippi, go to deepsouthfounders .com,

deepsouthfounders .com.

Last but not least, if you love Iron Trip and Zion Radio and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves,

please go to irontripandzionradio .com, click support, and then click click

to donate now.

You could donate instantly that way through debit or credit card.

You could also send in a check via snail mail to the address that you will see pop up on the screen at

irontripandzionradio .com when you click support.

Please never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member in order to give to

Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Never do that.

Never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Those two things are commands of God.

Providing for Iron Trip and Zion Radio is not a command of God, but if you are financially blessed above and

beyond your ability to obey those two commands, then please consider donating

heavily and frequently to irontripandzionradio .com, and then click support, then click

click to donate now.

If you'd like to advertise with us, go just send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put advertising in the subject line.

And as long as whatever it is you want to promote is compatible with what we believe, doesn't have to be identical, just needs to be

compatible, then we would love to help you launch an ad campaign.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, put advertising in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest Jeff Downs

regarding being freed from addiction.

You can even make the questions broader in scope because of the fact that Jeff Downs is a pastor,

so you may have a pastoral question or theological question.

We would welcome those as well.

You may remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter, but otherwise please give us your first name,

city and state and country of residence at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

I just thought I'd throw in something that I've kind of thought was humorous even though

it seriously reveals a serious error in the AANA

recovery model.

Before I had an empty bed waiting for me at Hebron Colony Ministries, the Christian

Rehabilitation Ministry in Boone, North Carolina, I signed myself into a rehab

at a hospital, just a secular hospital, actually it's a Catholic hospital, that

had a drug and alcohol rehab wing and I wanted to immediately

get myself under the care of people to get off of alcohol while I was

waiting for my bed at Hebron and we were assigned

psychologists, secular psychologists, and one of the psychologists who was

appointed to me, a female psychologist, said to me, why do you disagree with the

AANA recovery model?

And I said, well, the first thing is that you teach that you could believe that anything is

your higher power.

You could even believe that a chair is your higher power and that is blasphemous as a

Christian.

And the psychologist said, well, you can't believe it's a chair.

I've never heard of anyone doing that.

You could believe it's a tree, she said.

I said, oh, okay, so when you cut the tree down and make a chair out of it, is it still a god?

She did not like me too much.

But anyway, we have...

And the issue is prior to going

to NA meetings, am

I going to contact

these

ministries?

Yeah, I completely understand and I agree with you.

I'm not, I'm not going to, sorry about that, we accidentally launched a commercial there.

I'm not, I wouldn't do that either.

Just as if a person was laid up in the hospital after an accident or something in a

Mormon hospital, I'm not going to drag him out of his room and bring him home.

I completely concur.

With

what

you're

saying.

Right.

And

let me

go

to our patient listener who happens to be someone.

Who I've interviewed on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dr. George C. Cipioni.

I usually don't give the full names of listeners, but I make exceptions when they've been my guests or when they're pastors and so

on.

Dr. George C. Cipioni, adjunct professor and director of the Biblical Counseling Institute at

Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

He asks, what were the greatest influences in your ministry to date?

Is Dr. Cipioni fishing for a compliment?

Does he want

you to

mention

him?

I'm very

honored

to

have become a friend over the.

Last three years after relaunching Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

I've become a friend of his granddaughter Cindy, and I'm sorry, his daughter.

His daughter Cindy, and it has been quite a pleasure.

I've interviewed her and she's very strongly involved in the pro -life movement and what a

wonderful,.

Sweet

sister

in Christ

she is.

Yes, as I

did.

Amen.

And I'm

sure, I

hope

that Dr. Cipioni.

Has a thick skin and doesn't mind a little ribbing at his expense there.

He was a great guy.

Actually, I caught him when him and

his wife did a...

Well, he was certainly a phenomenal guest on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and I look forward to him returning very often.

Thank you, Dr. Cipioni, and keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio and spreading the word about it in Pittsburgh,

Pennsylvania, and beyond.

In fact, Dr. Cipioni, tomorrow, Mitch Tepper returns to Iron Trip and

Zion Radio, who I believe was a student of yours at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

He's a Jewish believer, as you know, and he is now the missionary,

right now, the only missionary for the North American Division of Christian Witness to Israel.

He is going to be joined by the director of the North American Division of Christian Witness to Israel, Stephen Atkinson.

Tomorrow, on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, they are giving their response to the horrific massacre that

took place at the Tree of Life Synagogue in the Squirrel

Hill area of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, this past Saturday.

Very providentially, before that happened, Steve Atkinson and Mitch Tepper

were both reaching out to that very same synagogue, and they are attending the

memorial, and they are praying for opportunities to tactfully and lovingly and

graciously and mercifully reach out to those folks with the love of Christ.

So, pray for them, and also mark that on your calendars for tomorrow, October 31st,

Reformation Day, my interview with Mitch Tepper and Stephen.

Atkinson

of Christian

Witness to Israel.

Just for me,

I came to Christ, too.

I was in seminary.

And he, it was funny, someone, I can't remember exactly now.

You have to listen to the interview with Dr. Cipioni, but he had a funny response when his fellow

classmates were calling him an Arminian, because he didn't even know what Calvinism and Arminianism was.

An Arminian?

Yeah, I think he thought it was a nationality.

That's what it was.

Right.

I'm Italian or something, he said.

Loving the Lord Jesus Christ.

All right, to have all of that knowledge.

I'm in

tears,

man, just listening to this and thinking, you know, I hope that's me.

This is said

knowledge, and you know, it hasn't impacted me, really.

But I love the Lord, and yeah, so that, actually, that sermon

hasn't impacted me.

We are going to our final break.

It's going to be a lot briefer than the last one, so if you intend to send in a question, please do so now or forever.

Hold your peace, because we're rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, Am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the Body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750.

That's 508 -528 -5750.

Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program

entitled, Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org.

That's providencebaptistchurchma .org, or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is.

Delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If.

You've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that, they feel so good.

I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot.

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Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in.

Linbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

Our church is far more.

Than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages, enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus.

Christ in fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can

be.

Call Linbrook Baptist.

At 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599

-9402.

Or visit linbrookbaptist .org. That's linbrookbaptist .org.

Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself.

Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible.

Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100

cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10

different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal.

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you

call Dan.

Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Buttafuoco's number

is 1 -800 -669 -4878, 1 -800 -669 -4878, or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

That's chrisarnson.

At gmail .com.

Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS

Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of

God in the churches of our Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth

of Holy Scripture.

I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture

and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths.

Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them

to all of God's people.

If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

My name is Steve Lawson, Founder and President of One Passion Ministries, as well as Teaching Fellow for Ligonier

Ministries.

I serve as Professor of Preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

Programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical

faithfulness, such as Dr. W .R. Downing, Dr. Peter Masters, Pastor Joe

Jackowitz, Pastor Robert Gifford, Al Martin, Edward Delcor, and more.

Firstloveradio .org also live streams my Iron Trepans Iron Radio program daily.

Please stick around on firstloveradio .org after Iron Trepans Iron Radio is over to continue

being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace.

Spread the word about firstloveradio .org.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is.

A publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past

to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And please remember when.

Mike Gadosz, the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, was laid up in the hospital recently for very serious and

complicated and dangerous open heart surgery, he has experienced a

serious financial setback being laid up in the hospital and during his time of recovery.

So please try to replenish that which was lost during this setback by purchasing as

many books as you can from solid -ground -books .com.

Solid -ground -books .com.

Tell Mike Gadosz, founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, that you heard about him, that you heard about us, I should say.

No, no, I said it right the first time, that you heard about him from us on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And by the way, my guest yesterday, Lowell Ivey, who is a friend of my guest

today, Jeff Downs.

In fact, Lowell, as I've been mentioning, is speaking at Jeff Downs' Bible

conference this Saturday.

Lowell Ivey, who was in prison, if you may remember from yesterday, he was a white supremacist

gang member in prison.

Well, after he received the eternal life in prison and became a Christian,

he informed me after the show that Solid Ground Christian Books were an enormous blessing to

him in prison.

I wish that he had mentioned that on the air, he told me that after the show was over.

So, I think I'm inviting him back on very soon, just so he can mention that on the air and

help our friends at Solid Ground Christian Books.

It was such a delight to hear that.

We have about 15 more minutes left.

If you have a question, please send it in now at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We have a listener, we have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long

Island, New York, who says, I agree with most Reformed Christians

that the moderate and responsible consumption of alcohol is within our liberty

as Bible -believing Christians, but I was wondering if your guest agrees with me that

very often, far more often than we may care to admit, Reformed Christians

can flaunt that liberty in a very unbiblical way and perhaps be a stumbling block to

others who may find themselves falling back into the sins.

Of

addiction.

Look at me

smoke my pipe.

From a distance,

people thought

it was a bonfire, and it

turned out it was

just

somebody's pipe.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I heard his story years.

Ago by, I believe it was Richard Denham, who is

now with the Lord for eternity, a missionary in Brazil,

and he was very disheartened because years, I'm talking years ago, back in the

early 90s, perhaps 80s, a Reformed preacher that was invited to a

Bible conference out there in Brazil refused to

come unless he could smoke his cigar, and so he was disinvited,

and that to me, I mean, I have nothing wrong, I have no problem with Christians that

want to smoke their cigars.

One of my greatest heroes of the faith, Charles Adams Spurgeon, loved his cigars and never quit smoking

cigars.

The legend is wrong, according to Phil Johnson.

He did not quit smoking cigars when he saw an ad for Spurgeon's

favorite brand of tobacco.

There's a legend that he saw an ad that said that and he quit, but that's not true, according to Phil Johnson, who's quite an expert on the

life of Spurgeon.

But anyway, but that is a ridiculous reason to not come to a Bible conference if those people

have a sensitivity towards things like that.

I mean, isn't that, aren't we supposed to be looking out for our brothers and

trying to prevent them from falling and stumbling.

More than our own personal pleasure?

Right.

James

doesn't

even

drink

coffee.

Right.

And he is one of the few people on the planet Earth that doesn't even like the smell of coffee.

That is indeed odd.

In fact, a Baptist who doesn't drink coffee, I think there's heresy involved in that.

But anyway, let's see here.

We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who says,

what are some practical steps of advice that you have for pastors and Christians in

general who are trying to keep the, I'm sorry, who are trying to

maintain the sobriety of those who have been rescued from addiction in their congregations

that do not involve.

The

famous 12

-step

groups?

But again, the

action

is

in the

church and

with the

people

of God, so that's, and

being in that form of

reading, you know, reading some books with the person,

it's not a genius thing.

It's, we talk about the simple means of grace, the preaching, the fellowship prayer, the means of

grace.

Yeah, I could say that

that is the most powerful.

Thing in my life that keeps me preserved from

falling back into my alcohol addiction, is the fellowship of God's people, and to be fellowshiping with

God's people as much as you can, not to be alone far too often.

Yeah.

And the way that I actually slipped back into alcoholism after 18 years of sobriety

was because I was disconnecting myself from fellowship and church attendance.

It was very sporadic, it became more and more sporadic, and the sad

results of that were falling back into heavy addiction until going to Hebron Colony in Boone,

North Carolina.

We have, let's see here, we have Susan and Susan Margaret in

Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who says, one of the things that I disagree with the recovery

groups over is the constant identification of oneself as an

alcoholic or an addict.

I believe that when we are free in Christ, we need not identify ourselves constantly

as being connected with a sin that we have been.

Rescued from.

What are your guests'

thoughts?

I do

too, and I would

have to add to that for myself.

Having said that, I will never, God willing,

should He spare me from falling back into sin again, I will never touch

alcohol again, even though I believe that others have a Christian liberty to moderately

responsibly imbibe.

I know that to me it would be a sinful temptation to myself of

putting God to the test.

It would be also something that would give an appearance of sin to those

around me who know of my history.

So I think that there is extreme wisdom in somebody who

had an addiction to alcohol to never touch it again.

And of course, when it comes to the abuse of illegal or even prescription drugs, that

goes without saying.

You can't recreationally use drugs at any time as a Christian and being

in the right standing with God.

Well, I want you to have about three minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our.

Listeners

today.

It has been

very good, and

these songs

kind

of

things, and now

I'm a

pretty

awesome

work that God's

doing.

Praise God.

We have time for one more question.

We have John in Bangor,.

Maine, who says, although being a Satanist or being involved in the

occult is heretical and blasphemous, isn't it even beyond that?

Can we not summon up the powers of darkness that have actual tangible and

physical horrible and hellish circumstances in our lives

that may even lead to.

Possession if the person involved is an unbeliever?

Yeah, he's

basically

saying it's.

More than just a violation of biblical commands.

It actually can bring some very twisted and serious and satanic

circumstances into people's lives.

So we agree with you.

Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have all of the information that they need to remain in

contact with you.

First of all, the Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church in Mechanical,

Virginia, that website is

knoxreformedpres

.org.

And if you have friends, family, and loved ones near Mechanical, Virginia,

or if you are visiting that area yourself, or if you yourself live near there, we strongly recommend that

you visit Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church.

And why not take advantage of the fact that they are having a conference this Saturday.

That is the, this Saturday is the 2nd, right?

November 2nd?

3rd.

Oh, I'm sorry.

That's right.

It's November 3rd.

Sorry about that.

That's the date of the conference, Saturday, November 3rd.

And Friday, November 2nd is when you are being officially installed as the pastor of Knox Reformed.

Presbyterian Church.

That's right.

And if anybody wants to come, we'll feed you some Chick -fil -A.

Chicken nuggets.

And as far as the conference on Saturday, it's 9 a

.m. to 11 .30 a .m., right?

9 to 11 .30.

Yes.

In the morning.

Yes.

And thank you so much, Pastor Jeff Downs, for being my guest.

I look forward to you returning to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

I want to thank everybody who listened today.

Please make sure you mark your calendars for tomorrow's interview with Stephen Atkinson, the Director of the

North American Division of Christian Witness to Israel, and Mitch Tepper, a Jewish believer who is their

missionary, and they're going to be giving their response to the horrific massacre that took place at the Tree of Life

Fellowship, or the Tree of Life Synagogue, I should say, in Squirrel Hill, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

Amen.