October 30, 2018 Show with Jeff Downs on “From Drugs to Delivered”

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Our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 30th day of October 2018. I'm delighted to have for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio someone whom I have known for quite a number of years, going at least all the way back to the origins of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in 2005 when broadcasting out of New York, but in all this time that I've known Jeff Downs, this will be our first interview.

Some of you may recognize his name immediately from blog articles he has written for Alpha and Omega Ministries. That's the ministry of Dr. James R. White and he is going to be installed officially this Friday as the pastor of Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church, which is a congregation in the Presbyterian Church in America, also known as the PCA, in Mechanicsville, Virginia.

And today we are going to be addressing from drugs to delivered and we're also going to be announcing the upcoming conference at Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, Virginia, where Pastor Jeff will be speaking on that very same theme alongside of Lowell Ivey, who we had interviewed yesterday on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Lowell Ivey, a former white supremacist gang member in prison who was given true freedom in Christ when being saved in prison and having remained there for nine subsequent years as a Christian. And we also had Fred Sloan, one of the other speakers at the conference, coming up this Saturday.

And he was speaking about why a prison ministry is necessary. So we hope that as many of you as possible attend that conference this Saturday. But let me now introduce you for the very first time as a guest.

On Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Jeff Downs. Hello, Chris. Jeff Downs here. So grateful to...

Yeah, I first became acquainted with James in the 90s and became a friend that has formed a friendship that has lasted all these years. In 1996, or perhaps a little bit before that, 95, the first debate that I arranged for him with Jerry Matitick's Roman Catholic apologist, who is now a Sedevacantist Roman Catholic apologist, which is... there's probably about, I don't know, three of them in the world.

But I can recall for quite a number of years seeing your blog articles on the Alpha and Omega Ministries website. How did that meeting take place between you and James originally, and how did you begin working with him?

Well, I guess I've just been listening to his podcast, and then I wanted to get him out to Pennsylvania. Well, yeah, he spent a few of his childhood years in Mechanicsburg. Mechanicsburg, yeah. I got him out there for a conference, and he spoke many hours when he talks about any complaint day.

He was worn out, and coming out, I posted, you don't need to do that because they're not doing that kind of work. Passing on resources to James. Pyromaniacs, you know, had their team. Yeah, Phil Johnson.

James decided to put a team together, and I was just part of it, and I'm grateful for that. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, you had the honor of.

Having a caricature drawn of you along with James White and his other team members.

Yeah, and I had the privilege of having the peace sign over James White's head.

That was you, that's right.

What a privilege to be a part of that.

Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church and the Regulative Principle

Well, now tell us about Knox Reform Presbyterian Church, which is a PCA church, a church in the Presbyterian Church in America denomination in Mechanicsville, Virginia.

That's correct. We're in the James River Presbyterian Church, a 20-mile church. I've been here since listening, and have been the only ones here. My boy is 16. We could use some children. It's a small church.

I think they've only had two pastors. We hold to the regulative principle. We have a simple... The letter was introducing the church to the community, and, you know, it was all about the rock and band that they had, and the messages that were relevant.

And I'm thinking to myself, you know, it's very appealing. It's very appealing to people, and I understand that, but why not just Christ? You know, we preach Christ being crucified. We want you to come because we want you to worship the Lord.

Now, you'll benefit from that. You'll be blessed by it, I guarantee it, but we're not coming for us, right? We're coming to give glory and praise and honor to God. And thinking about these things, and, you know, the Lord grows the church, but He uses how we reach the community to bring kids into the church.

When you have churches like that, you know, churches that are showing movies and things like that, it's very difficult, but we pray and hope the Lord. Like I said, we meet... We are a small church. We have one service at this point.

We meet 11 o 'clock for worship, 9 .30 for... We do what we do. I just got done preaching on the Beatitudes. We... Sunday, I preached on Psalm 133, and then I'll probably start, but just be in here for a little while.

Great, and anybody who wants to find out more about the Knox Reformed Presbyterian.

Church in Mechanicsville, Virginia, you can go to knoxreformedpres .org. K-N-O-X-R-E-F-O-R-M-E-D-P-R-E-S .org. Knoxreformedpres .org. Now, tell us a little bit about the conference that you have coming up at Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, Virginia, this Saturday.

Okay. Chris, if you don't mind, before I jump into that, let me mention also World Religions of the Young. I love doing that. I love putting on conferences and seminars. I love...

Great, yeah, and judging from the fact that your email address includes the words countercult, I guess that's a subject that's near and dear to your heart.

Actually, I got that. I'll come up with an email address for something. Great. Sounds great. Well, once again, go to knoxreformedpres .org if you want.

Details about the conference, and if you want to hear the interviews that I conducted with the two other speakers, they should be already archived at the ironsharpensironradio .com website, but if you go to past shows podcast, and you type in the search engine, the first interview with Fred Sloan, you just need to type in S-L-O-A-N, and you'll get that interview, and if you want to listen to the interview with Lowell Ivey, type in I-V-E-Y, and you will get that interview, and both of them were wonderful interviews.

I really enjoyed both of them immensely, and I look forward to having both of those men back on the show. Well, you have a testimony that is not far apart from my own in regard to the fact that the Lord rescued you from addiction.

In my case, it was alcohol. In your case, it was drugs, I'm assuming, and so tell us about your story, your entire story, beginning from the kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in as a child, if any, and what tragic circumstances took place later in your life that led you into drugs, and eventually we want to hear the good news about how the Lord providentially used circumstances in your life that drew you to himself, and eventually you.

Were saved by his precious blood. You are the only Reformed breakdancer I know of. I say I'm pretty good at it still, but I haven't tried it.

I'm sure I would break a lot of things if I attempted breakdancing.

That's right. You're 18, you're this guy, this guy to him, and I don't know if I was just scared.

Praise God. And, well, tell us about how you discovered and embraced Reformed theology.

Well, I got clean in 1991, and right away... Oh yeah, I definitely remember those days,.

And my friend Ken Samples was on the team with Hank Enegroff. This is before Hank was doing the show solo. He had several people typically on with him. Ron Rhoad,.

Elliot Miller. That was also when, every Friday, they'd play Walter Martin, and so I started listening to that pretty much again right away. Back then, I haven't seen any, but maybe they still do have, you know, get their number off TV, call them, and at that time, I probably wasn't a little bit about it, and we want you to know.

That's where Stephen J. Nichols used to be, correct? Yeah, that's right. He still looks like he's 19 years old. I spoke to a friend of mine. He said, well, he does have a little bit of wrinkle now in his face.

Well, very little, though. He's a youthful looking person in Lancaster.

Yeah, I've been there for a Ligonier conference, at least one.

Mm-hmm, yep. It wasn't in college, even before that. Yeah, I remember it well.

Going back to your being transformed by Christ, when we come back from our break, I'd like you to give us some details about how you, you know, completely set the drugs aside. We would like to know if there was a period of strong temptation to return, and all those kinds.

Of things that maybe... Yeah, like I said, I skipped a couple things, so yeah, we'll come.

Back to that. Right, and we're going to be going to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away, we'll be right back with Jeff Downs after these messages from our sponsors. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If.

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Because everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today is Jeff Downs. He is the newly installed pastor as of this Friday at Knox Reform Presbyterian Church, which is a congregation in the PCA, Presbyterian Church in America, in Mechanicsville, Virginia.

We are discussing his testimony, From Drugs to Delivered, which is also one of the speaking themes that Jeff will be conducting at the upcoming conference at Knox Reform Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, Pennsylvania.

I'm Virginia, I'm sorry. This is Mechanicsburg here, so I kind of got that mixed up a little bit. He's going to be joined by Fred Sloan and Lowell Ivey at that conference, and I had both Fred and Lowell on Friday and yesterday on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I hope you look up their interviews on the archive at ironsharpensironradio .com as soon as you have time after this live program, of course.

We don't want you to leave this live program to get to those pre-recorded shows. If you have any questions, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Before I go to our listener question, we actually have a listener question from Dr. George Cipioni, who is an adjunct professor, and he also is the director of the Biblical Counseling Institute at Reform Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

He has a question for you. I did not know, perhaps he doesn't know you personally, but it's interesting that he's...

No, he does.

Okay, great. Before we go to his question, pick up where we had you being delivered from your drug addiction, and I know that not every single Christian is a cookie cutter of other Christians when it comes to many, if not most, things in life.

We may be all saved by the same gospel and saved by the same blood of the same Jesus Christ, and we are both guided by the same inerrant God-breathed words of Scripture, but our testimonies may not mirror each other.

Like, for instance, when it comes to addiction, some people are immediately delivered from these kinds of addictions, drug or alcohol. Some of them, they struggle greatly with them for a long time until they finally are... before they finally receive a full deliverance.

People like me, I quit cold turkey when I first became a Christian. I quit alcohol, which I was quite notorious for over-imbibing in my community. I quit for 18 years and led a completely sober Christian life for 18 years, and then sadly went back into that addiction and was rescued once again out of it by our Lord, this time at Hebron Colony Ministries, which is a Christian alcohol and drug recovery ministry in Boone, North Carolina, which I always take every opportunity I can to sing the praises of Hebron Colony.

HebronColony .org is their website. HebronColony .org. But each time I quit, I was immediately delivered. In fact, oddly enough, delivered from the temptation or the desire to have alcohol. Of course, since my testimony, as I already said, after 18 years, I started to desire it.

It was more that I desired to self-medicate because of depression and things like that, but when I was delivered from it this time around, I also immediately seemed to lose any interest in.

The consumption of alcohol. But tell us about your own story. Yeah, but once I got... Really? Yeah, you know, just one length. A lot of millennials have no idea what you're talking about, right? And I have two pictures of me when, during my years and days, my hair wasn't in my mind.

I don't know. Praise God for that. Yeah, no doubt. But like I said, you know, whether in 91, went into the rooms. He ended up, he's in the room, not clean. I had chains hanging down to the ground, the cooler you are.

Praise God. Well, you mentioned something that.

Is very controversial, even amongst Christians. You mentioned Narcotics Anonymous, and of course, that would immediately bring to mind, in the minds of many, Alcoholics Anonymous, AA, AA and NA are different recovery groups.

And I happen to have serious misgivings or apprehensions and opposition to the AA and NA groups. I'm not saying that they have not been used to rescue a people out of addiction. But I think that the structure of them really contradicts and conflicts with biblical theology in many points.

And I think that very often, those places become a replacement for the church. I have even heard people tell me that this is now my church. People who once were professing Christians, who say, this is now my church.

It's interesting how they, very often, these groups will have infighting, just like denominations of Christianity. You'll have people say, now that group over at that church, they don't go by the book.

And they're not talking about the Bible. They're talking about the AA manual. I also think that those places, can be very dangerous for women and girls. In fact, I know someone personally that was assaulted by an AA leader.

So I mean, I have my strong opinions about that. And I don't have time to articulate all of the reasons. But what are your thoughts on those groups?

Maybe it's a program.

Right. So that's why I said that I have no problem saying that they have been used to rescue many people, who knows, maybe even millions. And the reason why I don't think that's a good enough reason to promote them is, I'm sure there have been countless thousands who have been delivered from addiction by joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or becoming Jehovah's Witnesses.

We all know that, or many of us know anyway, that the Nation of Islam has been used to rescue black folks involved in addiction and involved in criminal behavior. And they have cleaned up their lives and have become responsible citizens and so on.

But that's still a dangerous and damning cult. So I'm sorry I interrupted you. I just wanted to put my two cents in there.

Having a zeal to the way we pray in Christ's name. A friend and I went off to Bible college and then going to church, and to say that's where the action is. Not feeling the use or anything like that, which I haven't.

You can change. I'm not sure if I'd recommend it.

Yeah, just like there are Reformed Christians that were saved through the altar calls at the Billy Graham Crusades, even some have written against them after they came to the Reformed faith. But just because something can be used of God to deliver somebody from some specific kind of sinful activity does not mean that the approach or organization is biblically faithful.

One of the things that I always found puzzling about the 12 steps, for instance, is that, let's see, I'm looking at them right now. And let's see. The second step is that I came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

And then the third step is that I made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of God as I understood him. Now, if you're insane, if you came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity, and then I made a decision, while insane, to turn my will and life over to the care of a God as I understood him, how could an insane person choose a God according to his understanding when he's insane?

Is what I'm making sense here? Oh, yeah. And, you know, kind of describes it too.

Which is blasphemous, obviously. Right, exactly. That's a Roman's word for us, right? Right. Well, we have to get to our midway break right now. This is our longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us every day to take a longer break in the middle because they have to localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, and air their own commercials and public service announcements during this break.

So I would urge you to use this time wisely and please write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more quickly and successfully and more frequently patronize them. Because the more you patronize my advertisers, the more likely they are going to remain my advertisers.

And we rely upon my advertisers, the funding that comes from their sponsorship, we rely upon that to remain in existence. So please write down that information. And also write down a question for Jeff Downs.

And the email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. And please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. If you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And I can readily understand a topic like this lending itself to a personal and private matter because it's involving addiction. So feel free to write in anonymously if you if you choose to, if it's about a personal and private matter.

And don't don't worry, Dr. Cipioni, we will get to your question when we return from the break. So thank you for your patience. Don't go away, God willing, we are going to be right back with Jeff Downs right after these messages from our sponsors.

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For many years to come. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan has a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states. He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer. He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more and in approximately 10 different states.