Triggered by The Apologia Radio Chat - Small LANGUAGE WARNING - Part 3

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All right, everybody. Welcome back to the channel. It is Wednesday. It might be

Wednesday. It might be Thursday. I don't know when I'm going to launch this video, but today is Wednesday over here. But in any case,

Wednesday, December 18th, year of our Lord 2024. And I got to say, people are really enjoying the

Bronze Age masculinity content that I'm doing on the channel with Paul G of Radio interviewing

Dr. Andrew Sandlin. And I just found an interesting little tidbit here.

I keep kind of promoting that eventually Luke Pearson, Pastor Luke Pearson is going to get super triggered about people, mockery and all this kind of stuff.

And that's coming at some point. I don't remember when it is, but it's got to be soon. I mean, we only have, well, we got 30 minutes left in the episode.

So it's got to be coming soon. But I did, one of my commenters mentioned that he was in the chat and probably was one of the reasons why

Luke got triggered. And I just noticed, I didn't go looking for it, but I just noticed an interaction that Pastor Luke Pearson has where they're trying to get him to name names, right?

Like, this is such a problem. Why don't you just name names? You know what I mean? What's the big deal? Just name the name. And Luke says, just spend 10 minutes on X.

This is not petty. It's in all of churches and needs to be dealt with. And then someone says, we never get a name.

Who am I supposed to be running away from? Like if you're going to name, if you're going to be telling me this is a big problem, name the names, right?

He, you know, this is a typical comment that Luke says, well, just go on X. You'll see. And it's like, well, you know, if you know what you're talking about, just tell me the name.

And then he says, uh, uh, Corey Mahler, start there stone choir.

So this is about Corey. This is about Corey Mahler and stone choir. And uh, the same person goes, who is

Corey? Why should I care? And that's funny. Who's Corey? Why should I care?

You know, it's, it's, it seems like a pretty fringe thing, whatever. And uh, so then this other guy says,

Hey Luke, I have to disagree with your claim about being in it, being in all the churches. I'm only aware of this problem because of X it's not been on my radar before.

And then Luke says, I didn't say all the churches. And then this guy goes, you literally typed in all of churches.

Did you not? So he's getting all mixed up, right? He's all, he's all triggered in the comment section.

You know, first of all, it's in all the churches, then it's, then it's Corey Mahler. Then it's not in all the churches, like, which is it, man?

Which is it? You can tell he's getting triggered. And even in the chat, you could tell he's getting triggered. But anyway, uh, let's continue with the review.

Yeah, guys, I'm telling you, you, you, you just, it's, it's a practice. It's a discipline that you need to cultivate over time.

It just, it's just something, if you're going to be engaging online, you need to practice not getting triggered.

It's like when you go to the abortion clinic or you do street preaching, you know, I don't go to abortion clinics all the time, although I have been before, uh, but I've done some street preaching in my time.

And one of the things that you need to practice before you can go out there and do this stuff is to not get triggered, right?

You can't get triggered. You don't want to get into a shouting match with somebody when you're street preaching or you're street witnessing or anything like that.

You gotta stay calm. And in the same way, you know, it's, it's different, but it's, it's similar on the internet.

You gotta stay calm. Don't get all flustered and upset and angry.

It's just not going to do anything for you. I, I, I implore you if you're going to be on X pastor,

Jeff, Jeff Durbin, if you're going to be on X, you need to hire someone, hire a consultant that can help you with what

X is all about. Learn what X is all about. And you know, it doesn't make any sense to try to reinvent

X. It is what it is. You need help. And you know what, pastor Jeff, I, I, you know what,

I'm a nice guy. I will help you for free. I will consult with you on how to utilize

X for free. You know what I mean? I'll do it. And I'll pro bono. No problem. I'll just do it because I want to help.

I like apology or radio. I want to help. So I'll do it for free, man. Just reach out to me, man.

I'll text you. I'll text you about this. Maybe I won't. I don't know. I might be poking the bear a little bit too much.

The reason is, I think I noted this earlier. It's a. Oh no.

I treated myself to a wild Alaskan company membership and my only regret is that I didn't do this sooner. Every month.

People keep saying they need to get an ad blocker, but I feel like I would feel like such a hypocrite since I'm on. I have ads on my channel too.

I just feel like such a hypocrite. Well, for one thing, people like sort of academic and scholarly respectability and the

Greeks in many cases are respected, whereas the Bible, well, the Bible is just God's word and has offensive things in it.

But if we can show that. Didn't we already talk about this? Philosophically coherent. Let's go forward a little bit. Governed by the Bible, there would actually be very few crimes because most sins in the

Bible are not crimes. But they don't want that. They want this. I mean, not just a theonomy,

God's law, but the Bibliotomy, that is God's biblical law. They don't want that.

They also want a state that's stronger and more, quote, here we go, muscular. Well, the

Bible won't permit that. Biblical law actually applies very narrowly in politics.

It does apply in politics. But actually, if we had a state and civil government governed by the

Bible, there would actually be very few crimes because most sins in the Bible are not crimes. But they don't want that.

They want this strong, muscular state that can do lots of stuff. Well, you get that in you get that in Greek philosophy.

Aristotle, read just the first chapter, friends, of Aristotle's politics. Immediately, the state is everything and the family is subservient to the state.

And we're born into the state. State does everything. He also defends slavery, by the way. It's remarkable.

First chapter. Read the first two, three, four or five chapters. I mean, what does nature teach us? What does nature teach us,

Aristotle says? Well, some are meant to be masters and some are meant to be slaves. Well, you won't get that out of the

Bible. That's just a false teaching. But that, I think— You know who taught that?

Rush Dooney taught that. Yeah, I'll never forget the quote. I'm pretty sure I'm quoting exactly.

It could be mistaken because it's been a while since I read this. But he had a point that some men are by nature slaves.

And the counterpoint, obviously, is some men are by nature masters. Yeah, Rush Dooney taught that.

Listen, I think here's the thing. You know, are there some people that want the state to do things that the state ought not to be doing?

In my opinion, yes, there are people like that. And I do think that if we had a biblical sort of Christian nation that looked at God's law as the model for what their law should be,

I think the state would be in many ways smaller. And in fact, most Christian nationalists

I know are for a smaller state in many ways. But what I do see, and I will grant readily, that we understand—

And I think that the reformers understood this as well. I think that the Westminster magistrates—

Not magistrates. The Westminster— What do they call the people that were at the convention?

Whatever. Whatever. They understood this as well, that in the law of God, you've got these case laws, right?

You've got this what to do in certain situations. And of course, it's all based on the

Ten Commandments. We understand that. And then we see, OK, well, what happens if this situation were to happen? What would be the penalty and stuff like that?

We all kind of understand, though, that it's not an exhaustive list again. And so just because the case laws don't address a more modern situation directly, we can still look at those case laws and come up with our own laws that kind of get the spirit of it, right?

That apply the general equity of it. And so there are going to be things that, strictly speaking, maybe the law of God doesn't specifically address, that you might find yourself in a situation as a nation that you kind of have to address it.

You have to address it. It's just part and parcel of what being a nation is. And I think the reformers clearly understood this very well.

And in fact, like I said, I've been reading a lot of interesting things with Samuel Rutherford is the name of the guy who wrote

Lex Rex. OK, so I remember that now. My memory is not the greatest, it really isn't, not the greatest.

But I remember when I read that, it blew my mind because it was a lot deeper than I expected it to be.

And I'm not sure why I didn't expect it to be very deep, but it was. And it was very interesting. And there were some things in that book that I wasn't quite sure if I agreed with or not.

But there was a lot in that book that I had never been taught before that I definitely agreed with. And I definitely could see exactly how you would apply biblical teaching in order to get to that place.

So anyway, all this to say is that I still consider myself a theonomist because I still think those civil case laws are very applicable.

And I think a lot of times you can very easily see how they would apply to a modern context. But I don't consider myself like a inflexible, not inflexible, but like a wooden biblical theonomist in the sense that literally the only things we can do are what the

Bible says and that is it. That's just not the case at all. In fact, when you read the rest of the

Bible, not just the laws, you see these things being applied in a variety of different ways that are very interesting and that we should consider when we're looking at things.

And so I guess if you don't want to call me a theonomist anymore, I'm not like zealous for the title or anything.

But I do think that there is a, how do I put this in a nice way?

There is an autistic way to be a theonomist. That's my nice way of putting it. There's an autistic way to be a theonomist.

And I'm not wanting to be that kind of a theonomist. I want to be a theonomist that also deals with reality as it really is, a theonomist that can operate in reality as well.

That's the kind of theonomist that I want to be. I'm not saying that he's an autistic theonomist. Don't get all crazy on me.

But I think you know what I mean. There is a kind of, and this applies to a lot of these kind of newer things like presuppositionalism and then post -millennialism even to a certain degree.

Like I'm a post -millennial for sure. And I like presuppositionalism, I do.

But I think we all kind of know what I'm talking about when we talk about, when I say autistic style presuppositionalism or theonomy or things like that.

Like, I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't mean like the actual diagnosis of autism.

You know what I mean. And I could talk more about that, Zach, but that's kind of what we have going on here.

Go ahead, Luke. Okay, sorry. I'm about to go preach here, so. He's going in.

One, let me be very clear. Because I'm getting some comments in the live chat here. Let me be clear.

Setting me off. Let me be very clear. What we're talking about here is a cancer within the church, specifically within the

Reformed Church. Okay, you want names? Start with Corley Mailer. Start with the

Stone Choir. Start there. Go to X. Look them up. It won't take you - I can see you're upset,

Luke. I can see you're quite upset. And this is the thing.

Like, I'm aware of who Corley Mailer is. I understand, you know, all of this.

You know, I'm aware of Stone Choir. I'm aware of all of this. But I just do not see.

And you could get all angry, all uppity, all you want. I just don't see how this is a big problem.

I just don't see it. I guess if they were doing,

I don't know, like, I don't really know how to put this. Like, I am aware of these guys.

I run in the circles that allegedly are so influenced by them. I get it. I get it.

But I just don't see the problem. I don't see it as this pervasive thing.

It's very fringe. And I think that that's totally fine for something to be fringe. And if you're gonna get all uppity about this and talk about how it's a cancer in the church, well, if it is, it's a very minor cancer, a minor cancer that does not seem to be metastasizing that quickly.

And so nip it in the butt if you want to. But man, to get all uppity about this as if it's this rampant problem, as if this is spreading like wildfire and every church that's out there has a secret

Stone Choir study group, that's how you make it seem. You make it seem it's on the level of like Ligonier where every single church you go to, they do a

Ligonier Bible study. You know what I mean? Like, every Bible study they do is from Ligonier. You make it seem like it's this huge thing and I just don't see it.

I don't see it. And it's so funny because I talk to a lot of the guys that would be on the receiving end of this.

Like, where are the big problems? You know, you got A .D. Robles and you got Joel Webbin and you got all these other Anon accounts and stuff.

And all of this, like I see the people that you have in mind here. That this is just a cancer.

You guys have cancer. And like hardly any of us listen to Stone Choir even once.

Hardly any of us have heard it even one time. The only reason I have heard woe to the other guy on Stone Choir, the only reason

I've heard his voice is because I heard a clip someone posted online mocking them.

That's the only time I've heard his voice. And I'm sure he's interacted with my tweets before and things like that, but I'm blocked by woe is whatever.

He's blocked me. I don't remember why he blocked me, but he blocked me. So I've seen the tweets.

I've seen the scare tweets and stuff like that. That just doesn't have an effect on me really. The scare tweets, yeah, they're very scary.

I've seen a lot of Doug Wilson scare tweets too. Except Doug Wilson actually does have study groups.

I'm not saying that Stone Choir is like Doug Wilson. I'm not saying that, but what I'm saying is you make it seem like it's this big boogie man and it's just not.

I don't know what to tell you. It's not. So you're allowing yourself to get triggered over nothing.

Over nothing. It really has boggled my mind. And I've been asking people, and I've talked to a lot of people, a lot of people

I respect that have kind of a similar view that this is very dangerous podcast and all this stuff.

So dangerous that barely anyone names him. At least good on you, Luke, for naming him. I gotta hand it to you.

Good on you for naming Stone Choir, right? I appreciate that. But I've asked people,

I don't get it. Explain to me why this is such a big threat. Tell me what the big deal is, right?

Okay, so in your opinion, someone's wrong on the internet. Why is this a federal case?

Why are we making this headline news? Someone's wrong on the internet. I mean, who cares? I don't get it.

I just don't get it. Nobody's been able to explain to me why they're so dangerous. Besides, some people have said,

I used to know someone who was really solid, good brother, and they started listening to Stone Choir, and now all of a sudden he's crazy and he just says this and that.

I was like, okay, I get that. If it's personal, it's personal. I mean, I'm not gonna deny that. Of course, if you've got people in your lives that are really into Stone Choir and now they've gone off the deep end or whatever, fine.

I mean, you gotta address that. That's up to you. That's your friend, right? But everybody has a story.

Everybody has a story. So why is this like banner news for everybody? This is what I don't understand. What is the big deal?

I can see you're triggered, but I just don't understand why. This is nothing.

But you know, listen, maybe I just don't get it. I don't know. Maybe I'm just out to lunch and maybe every

Reformed church does have a Stone Choir study group. I don't know. I mean, maybe

I'm wrong on this. I don't know. Oh boy, oh boy. Yeah, I mean, seriously, like so many people that I'm sure that guys like Luke and guys like Jeff and Doug and all these guys, so many people that they assume are like avid

Stone Choir supporters have never heard a single episode of Stone Choir. And eventually

I'm reaching the point where I gotta listen. I've gotta listen to some Stone Choir. It's as simple as that.

I gotta see what the big deal is. But I kinda know, I kinda like being able to say

I've never watched Stone Choir. I like that idea, that never ever. Eventually I'm gonna have to give that up,

I think. And maybe one day I'll talk, listen, listen. I've talked about Stone Choir in a recent episode, some tweets that I didn't like and stuff like that.

And I explained to you why I didn't like it. I didn't make a huge deal out of it, just is what it is. But man, it's just,

I don't like feeling pressured into something. Like everyone keeps saying, you gotta listen to Stone Choir. You gotta see how dangerous they are.

And I'm like, okay. But like the point is like, why are they so dangerous? They can't explain that to me. They can't explain that to me.

I don't like being pressured into doing things. Very long to figure out where this is coming from.

All my, all my, all my, all my, my entire channel is being pressured into doing things.

It's a joke. We're being criticized for not giving names and saying it's not very masculine.

You want some names? There's some names to start there. Here's the problem, okay? Most of the people that are doing this are these anon dudes who are living behind a fake name, red face, blue eyes.

No one knows who they are in real life. No one knows where they go to church. Nobody knows who their pastors are. So it's kind of hard to name those names and call those people out.

So why are you getting triggered by it? This is my whole point. Like, it's like, oh yeah, I'll give you one name.

Corey Maylor. He's the big whipping boy. You know, you know, you want to name a name without risking anything? Corey Maylor.

That's the one. He's the big one. He's the whipping boy. And then the other guy, you know, nobody knows his name, but whatever.

They're the whipping boys. You got a little name Stone Choir, right? And then it's like, okay, fine.

Maybe I'll check out some Stone Choir. Okay, fine. But what else? You got anything else? That's just one, that's just two guys, right?

It's one podcast, two guys. You're telling me this is a cancer that I need to be worried about. And you'll get some chemo. And then he's like, well, here's the problem.

They're all anon. Why are you allowing yourself to be so paralyzed with fear?

So triggered, so angry about random anons on the internet. Look, I'm pro anon.

I like anons, some of them. But the thing is like the internet has existed for a long time.

There have been anons online for a long time. Why are you allowing yourself to get so triggered by this?

And I said this, I think in a Twitter video, an X video. And it's like, it's almost like maybe this is the disconnect, right?

Because I've spent in my previous non -Christian life before I had kids and all this stuff,

I spent a lot of time in call of duty lobbies, right? And in call of duty lobbies, these kinds of trolls have always existed, anons that just go crazy, right?

And the whole thing is they want to get a rise out of you. And if you just ignore them, it's no big deal.

But when you start to get in with them and start to say, well, you live in your parents' basement. I'll beat you up in real life.

You would never say that to my face. Like, you just look stupid. That's exactly what they want.

Don't do it, don't do it. Just stay untriggered by the anons. If it's really just a bunch of anons and this is the big problem, maybe don't do entire episodes about them.

I don't know. Because it certainly seems to me like what they want is attention from you and you're giving it to them.

Anyway, let's continue. You know, to mark them, but again, start with Corey Mailer, start with the

Stone Choir. It won't take you very long to figure out who we're talking about. Now, sorry, thank you,

Matt. I'm worked up here. So, you're getting all worked up and this is the exact wrong time to be addressing this kind of stuff.

Like, when you're all angry and all frustrated by random people on the internet.

People were in his chat and they were saying things to him and he just allowed himself to get all juiced up.

And then he says, well, I'm gonna preach now. And when he starts preaching, he ends up just saying, well, this is a problem in the church and it's

Corey Mailer, the whipping boy, and then it's a bunch of anons who we can't mark. You wait, can't you see how you're wasting time?

You know, your job is to mark people so that your people can know to avoid them, but you can't do it because it's anons, but yet you still can't help yourself.

Like, what are we doing here? We're marking anons to mark and avoid?

We're ranting about anons so we can mark and avoid the anons. It's just so weird.

This is so weird. Can't you see this is a waste of time? I'm trying to help you, man.

I said in the chat, because we're being accused of being petty. We're being accused this isn't a real thing.

We're giving it legs. I call bull crap on that. Yes. It's in our churches, and I said our churches.

I said all of our churches, and by all, I mean our, who we're addressing. Those who are seeing this as an issue and are addressing it, it's in our churches.

We've discovered it in Apologia Church. So it's people under your care, too. Yes, okay, so this is a real thing.

This isn't some make -believe thing that just exists out in the atmosphere. It's a real thing. It's a cancer within Reformed churches.

I'll say that, and I can say that confidently. It's in CREC churches, okay?

He's tripping all over his words. He's so triggered. Look, and I told a number of people this. I said this to a number of people, and people that you wouldn't expect to want to talk to A .D.

Robles, you know what I mean? But they want to talk to me because I think they know how reasonable I am, right? I've said this to a number of people.

I said, look, if this is in your churches and there are people that are just hating on Jews in your churches, then handle it.

I mean, go ahead and handle it. But when you make this front -page news and this is a huge deal, and you're getting all worked up online about it, it reminds me of back in Woke Wars 1 when

I said, look, if there are really people that hate blacks in your church, then deal with it, right? But don't just assume that everyone out there who's saying whatever about black people is in the same boat as these other people.

You don't know who they are because people would do that about James White. He made some comments about that black kid on his dash camera and was, racism is everywhere.

Like, you have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you know some racism, talk to the racists. I don't know. But like, you know, it's just, it's this thing.

Okay, if it's in apology or church, okay, fine. Then handle it. That's your job. I mean, that's okay, but why do you gotta bring all of us into it?

And see, this is the thing too that is so, this is the part that I think is a lot darker and so insidious about what

Luke Pearson is doing here but also what a lot of these guys have done is that they say, well, it's just Corey Mailer.

He's the one. You start there and then you'll see. And then it's all the Anons too. And it's in our churches. It's in your churches.

And it's like, okay, okay. I could deal with that, right? But then this is on the heels of like a month ago, everyone on this side of the issue promoting a video that said it was

Joel Webben. It was me. It was, you know, it's Eric Kahn. It's these guys that are the antisemites.

You know, they're the ones talking about Aristotle. I mean, by the way, that just means that they're racist and antisemite too. You know, we just heard that a few minutes ago.

And it's like, so no, no, it's really, for them it's not really so much about the Anons, right? They are getting worked up about the

Anons but there's something more insidious. There's something darker here. It seems to me like the true enemy here.

This is me doing a little bit of analysis here. So this could be, I could be off base.

This is my opinion. It seems to me like the true enemy here is

Stephen Wolfe, is Eric Kahn, Brian Sauve, is Andrew Isker, is Joel Webben.

I'm on the periphery of all this stuff too, for sure. It's that group, right? It's that group.

And instead of doing the right thing and being a man and talking to us like human beings and to tell us, hey man, this is where I disagree with you.

You know, maybe even appearing on the same stage with some of these guys, you know, solid believers in churches, in good standing, members in good standing and all this kind of stuff.

Instead of direct confrontation, they're attempting to do two things. One is gonna be an embargo. There's an embargo going on right now.

And then the other thing is to cast this aura of suspicion and mudslinging and all of this stuff at that group over there.

It's Corey Mailer, you know, he's the whipping boy and then the Anons as well. And they're all kind of in that group, right?

They're all kind of in that group. And by the way, have you seen, A .D. Robles has a denounced Corey Mailer.

Have you seen that? Oh, you know, I don't think Joel has denounced it either. Yeah, and oh, you know,

Eric Kahn. I saw, oh, you know, I saw Eric Kahn interact with one of Woe is

Me's, whatever his name is, posts. Woe to those who, you know, Trouble Woe, that's his name. I saw him interact with one of those posts.

And then they just, in a very pathetic kind of a way, in my opinion, a pathetic kind of a way, this is a way to attack that group, that named group who's, you know, they've got a legitimate, you know, standing in the

Reformed Church. They've got a following. They've got, they put out content. They've got their own publishing house.

They've got their own music. They've got their own thing going on. They want to attack that, but they won't do it directly.

So instead they do an embargo thing where they won't appear on stage with you. And they don't want to be on the same podcast as you and stuff like that.

And then they just kind of cashade at the Anon, or like the

Anon, you know, cloud over there. And hopefully some of that stuff will stick to guys like Steven Wolf and Joel Webbin and Eric Kahn and A .D.

Robles and Brian Sovey. That's what's going on here, in my opinion. Now I could be off base with that, but there's a lot of reasons why

I think that's the case. And so there it is, there it is.

It's proof of that, there's evidence of that. It's in solid churches. We're trying to address it because it's a cancer that has to be rooted out from our churches.

It has to be sent back to hell where it belongs because it's awful. The stuff we're seeing is just despicable, it's disgusting, and it needs to be put to death.

So hopefully I'm clear in saying that because that's the truth. Andrew's seen it, I've seen it, it's unbelievable.

Okay, so anyways, deep breath. All that to say. Yeah, you need to take a little bit of a deep breath.

I've been keeping track of thoughts this whole time. But I wanted, your questions were great, so I wanted you to get them in. What's crazy, and Andrew, I think you can back this up, the majority of where we've seen this is in white males in their 30s.

You think that's accurate? Or younger, or younger. Yeah, but I've talked to multiple people over the last month or so who have just called me up and been like, what is going on?

And they're like, I talked to so -and -so, they're saying this stuff, and I'm like, it's someone in their 30s, it's a white dude in their 30s.

Like, it's crazy. So there's this demographic of white males in their 30s or younger, and everything that Andrew's been saying, it's there.

It's all over X. And you might say, well, it's just only on X. Again, no, because it's in our churches, we're discovering it, we're trying to root it out.

And so that's kind of where a lot of this is coming from, and it goes right in line with everything Andrew just got done saying, especially trying to get rid of the older, the boomers.

I use the verse at the beginning in 1 Corinthians because it's childish. Like, the stuff

I'm seeing, look, I'm gonna be 44 here in two months. The stuff I'm seeing, I'm like, what, are we in junior high again?

Are we 14 years old, calling people fat, making fun of the way they look?

Like Andrew mentioned, and I wanted to address this, I've seen this from reputable pastor, reformed pastors.

If they don't like the stuff that you're saying, they're like, that's gay. Like, you're a 30 -some year old man.

You're not a 40. So let me, let's let him finish. Junior old boy in junior high, why are you calling stuff gay?

You wanna know why? Because the thing is, I'm 42, right? I'm 42, so we're the same age, basically.

If you wanna know why, the thing that a man would do is ask. Maybe just ask.

Why is it that all of a sudden you're bringing gay back as an insult, right? Why is that? Maybe just talk to us like human beings, like adults, because a lot of us are adults.

He's trying to throw shade here. Oh yeah, they're just in their 20s or their 30s and stuff like that. A lot of us are full grown men with families, with wives, with established roots, things like that, well -established in churches, things like that.

Don't for a second buy this propaganda that this is just a bunch of young guys that haven't really figured anything out yet and they're just in their parents' basement and all this kind of stuff.

That's just flat out not the case at all. But it seems to me that someone who is mature, someone that was grown up, the way to figure this kind of stuff out is maybe just ask us, you know what

I mean? If you don't even wanna talk to us, you could say, hey man, I don't wanna talk to you, but I'm very interested in why this is the case.

Why do you use the term gay to describe things, right? And if you told me that, I don't really wanna talk to you, but I'm curious as to why.

Do you have any resources? I'd send you some stuff, because you know what? We've produced content about that exact question that maybe you've listened to, probably you haven't, because if you had, you'd know exactly why that's a term that's being brought back, right?

And you'll know exactly why we use it and exactly what we think it means. It's more than just a schoolyard slur, although it is a schoolyard slur, we don't deny that and we don't shrink away from that.

But we've thought it through. We've thought it through. You know, maybe if you're so mature, if you're so adult, if you're the adults in the room, right?

Maybe don't do childish things. Like, I don't wanna appear on the stage with someone like that.

Like, that's a childish way to behave. That's a childish way to behave. Maybe drop the embargo for just one second.

Like, we don't hate you. We don't have any ill will towards you. We would appear on stage with you, no problem.

And you know, some of you guys, I don't even like you very much. I mean, some of you guys I do. I like Apology Radio. But some of you guys,

I'm not really fond of you. You know what I mean? But at the same time, I would talk to some of you guys. I would talk to pretty much all of you guys.

You know, it seems to me that there's an awful lot of talk about maturity.

And you know, they'll point to the superficial things. Like, did you see they called someone gay? Just like when we were 14, they called someone gay.

And it's like, that's the superficial stuff, right? When it comes to actually being mature, being an adult, right?

Like, I don't, like if somebody asked me to disavow Apology Radio, I'd look at them like they were crazy.

I'm not gonna disavow Apology Radio just because they don't happen to care for me very much. They don't care, they don't like me very much.

I'm not gonna disavow James White just because he blocked me on Twitter. That's pretty childish, by the way, doctor.

But whatever, I'm not gonna disavow you. I still think that there's so much value in what you bring to the table.

I would still recommend your books. I would still recommend your content. You know, that's just how it is, right?

And I would still talk to you, right? Like, it's just, there's an awful lot of talk about maturity, and then they point to some superficial kind of things that maybe would lead to someone to think that we're immature, but if you just look under the surface at the behavior, just a little, with a little bit of depth, with just a little bit of depth.

I mean, you're over here getting triggered in the chat. My goodness, Luke, you're 44 years old.

I think it's time to stop getting triggered in the chat. I mean, it's not that hard.

When someone says something in the chat that I find disgusting or something abhorrent or something like that, you know what

I do? I don't look at the chat. I don't give it any oxygen. I just move on with my life.

You're spending time blocking people in the chat and arguing with people, and then you get all on your high horse,

I'm gonna preach here about maturity and all this stuff, and it's just like, all from being triggered in the chat.

Here's what you do. You're upset with the behavior of Eric Cahn. You're upset with the behavior of, you know,

Stephen Wolf. You're upset with my behavior, stuff like that. Pick up the freaking phone and give us a call.

Let us know what you don't like. And guess what? Every single time someone has done that, because they have done that with me.

I've talked to someone from the Ezra Institute about my behavior, and you know what? Every single time I heard him out and I made my points and I'm willing to accept points that I can't address or I have no excuse for or whatever,

I'm a reasonable guy, right? I'm a reasonable guy. And so, yes, I do use the schoolyard slur, gay, to call certain things gay.

I've already offered my reasons for this. And listen, I'm modeling a lot of this off of Doug.

Doug uses schoolyard taunts and slugs too, right? And then when you ask him about it, he's got his explanation.

He's obviously thought it through. He just didn't say cunt for no reason. He thought it through before he said cunt, and now if you wanna know, you can ask him.

You don't wanna talk to me, Luke? I'll give you a little bit of help here. You wanna find out why we use the school word gay?

Go to Right Response Ministries. There's a video with myself, Andrew Isker, and Joel Webbin, and we're all there.

It's a professional setting, so you can see we're very mature. We're all wearing jackets and all of the whole nine yards, and we're talking about it.

I think it's called fake and gay or something like that. You know what? I'll even text it to you. I don't have your number, but I'll text it to Jeff just so you guys can have a little bit of information without having to reduce yourself to actually pick up the phone and talk to one of us like adults, because we are.

It just boggles the mind. It's like, it reminds me so much of my conversation with Ruslan, right?

And I'm not trying to throw shade at Ruslan because he's changed in many ways, and a lot of people are telling me even more recently that he's been really good, and I believe it, because Ruslan seemed like a reasonable guy to me, no question about it.

But at the time, he was always talking about charity, you know, charity towards all, charity towards all.

That's all he talked about, it seemed. And I never talk about charity, never. It's just not something

I talk about, right? And so we talked. We had a conversation, right? And so many people pointed this out, and I knew this was the case as well, that in the conversation that we had, despite how much he talked about charity, in that conversation, he had no charity for me, none.

And despite how I never talk about charity, I had tons of charity for him in an actual conversation.

It's just funny like that, it's very funny like that. Anyway, you're preaching?

I'm preaching, I'm not a preacher, not anymore anyway. But that's what I have to say. In any case,