July 2, 2015 ISI Radio Show with ex-occultic medium Jennifer Nizza-Hofacker

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth, listening via live streaming.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you a happy Thursday on the second day of July 2015, and yesterday, actually it was the, yeah, yesterday we reached the first day of the second month of broadcasting for Iron Sharpens Iron.

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Of course, that doesn't include the six years earlier that we were broadcasting before 2012, but we are delighted that the

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Lord has saw fit to keep us on the air at least for a month, and we hope that he is willing to keep us on for many years to come.

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And it is my honor and privilege today to have a very interesting and unusual guest. Today we are going to be having a conversation with ex -occultic medium

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Jennifer Niza Hofacker, and she is an individual who was groomed in the world of the occult by the same mentor as the

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Long Island Medium that many of you may be familiar with that television program.

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I hope you're not watching it, but I know that you may have heard about the program, and today, as I said, we have

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Jennifer Niza Hofacker on to discuss how she got involved in that demonic activity and was, by God's grace and mercy, saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and freed from bondage to that activity.

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According to the Holman's Bible Dictionary, a medium is one possessed by or consulting a ghost or spirit of the dead, especially for information about the future.

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Acting as a medium was punishable by stoning, consulting a medium by exclusion from the congregation of Israel.

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And for scriptural references, you can go to Leviticus 20, verses 6, 22, and 27, and Deuteronomy 18, verses 11, and there are also other passages even in the

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New Testament that involve mediums. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron, Jennifer Niza Hofacker.

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Hi, Chris. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I hope that I pronounced the first part of your last name correctly, because I know very well how to pronounce

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Hofacker, since your in -laws have been dear friends of mine for many years, and I miss dearly

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Brother Hofacker, who went home to be with the Lord not that long ago.

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He was a dear brother, Bill Hofacker, and a deacon at the church where I was saved, and his beautiful wife,

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Cynthia, your mother -in -law, and you are married to their son, Jason, correct? Yes, yes, that's true.

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And how long have you been married to Jason? Jason and I just had our fourth anniversary. Oh, well, praise

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God and congratulations. Thank you so much. And Jennifer Niza Hofacker is also a member of Living Faith Christian Church in Farmingdale, New York, and their website is livingfaithny .org.

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That's livingfaithny .org. And our greetings to all the brothers and sisters at Living Faith Christian Church in Farmingdale.

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And the last I checked, my ex -sister -in -law and her husband Jack, my ex -sister -in -law

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Ellen Holland and her husband Jack were members there, and perhaps you can check up to see if they're still there, because send them my greetings if they're there.

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Well, this is a fascinating topic. It's the first time that I have ever had an interview with a former occultic medium, and in fact,

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I've never even met face -to -face one that I can remember or that I knew of.

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So tell us something about your upbringing and what led you eventually to begin to practice the occult.

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Okay, well, I was actually raised in a different faith, unlike Christianity.

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Well, similar to Christianity, I don't know if it's okay to say it, but I don't want to offend anybody. So I was raised in a different faith, but in my home, my mom did believe in God and Jesus, and she spoke about it and sent us to religious instruction, and she also believed and agreed with psychics.

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Her aunt practiced mediumship, and she had had tarot card readers come to our home, and eventually, as I got older,

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I had some dreams that they call premonitions, if you will, with the old terminology of a vision or a dream that would come true, and then

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I started to be around people, and I would just know things or things would pop up, let's say, in my head, and it was something maybe the person was going to say or something that happened to the person, and though I thought it was unusual,

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I didn't pay that much attention to it. I continued through my life seeing tarot card readers and going to medium.

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It was acceptable in my home, and then times got tough for me, and I had a daughter out of wedlock whom

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I love and cherish dearly. I really didn't have any direction in my life, and these visions, if you will, or this knowing became stronger, stronger, and stronger, and actually, it was really very dark at times, and I was afraid, and I had no idea what was happening to me.

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I questioned even if I was crazy, to be honest with you. Now, so this introduction to the occult or to specifically being a medium, this, as you said, occurred, the genesis of it, if you will, the origins of it was in your own home, and I am not ashamed to say the fact that or embarrassed to say something that just happens to be true, that a lot of Roman Catholics seem to dabble in this.

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Now, of course, Roman Catholics are not the only people that dabble in this. There are,

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I'm sure, many thousands and thousands of Protestants and Jewish folks and people of other religions who dabble in it.

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In fact, we obviously know from the Old Testament there were Jewish people who dabbled in it wrongly and paid sometimes serious consequences for it, but there is a natural flowing from some of the practices of Catholicism to the occult practices of seeing mediums and so on because of the fact that they do very frequently, and of course, it differs between Catholic to Catholic, but they frequently will pray to saints that are deceased individuals, and of course, if these individuals were indeed

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Christians, we believe that they are in heaven and alive, but they use that as the excuse to communicate with them, and the irony is that the

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Roman Catholic Church officially condemns seeking mediums for counsel and advice and so on, and they yet do have this practice of crying out and praying to the saints for help, and they have all different kinds of saints that are attributed to different kinds of prayer requests, but do you really believe that that made it easier for you to fall into this practice or the fascination with it to begin with anyway?

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I believe that the openness in my home absolutely invited.

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I think that was the door open. I think that's just leaving the door wide open for the enemy to come right in.

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And don't quite a number of these mediums, at least the more well -known ones, don't they profess to be

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Roman Catholic? Yes, it's true, and it adds to the deception, especially,

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I'm not going to mention any names, but there is a particular medium who

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I know I started watching years ago who says a rosary and prays, and he makes a big to -do about how he says a prayer before he would do the reading and say a rosary, and I think that's very deceiving to Catholics who are out there and Christians and the rest of us.

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Yes, the sin of communicating with the dead is known as necromancy. That's the technical term for that, and Catholics will vociferously deny that they are guilty of practicing that because they think that what they are doing is a very unique thing that God honors, but we who are

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Bible -believing Christians don't seem to see any difference whatsoever in what they're doing.

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Of course, there may be specific unique things that may subtly differentiate from communication with saints and so on, but the fascination with yearning to see manifestations of Mary and all kinds of things

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I think just adds to the fascination of people for the occult, and so you started getting these notions in your mind.

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Now, did it ever occur to you that these were just coincidental types of things?

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In fact, I was just discussing with a friend yesterday some very odd coincidences that have occurred in our lives where we thought one thing or another, and then the next thing, it happened and all that kind of thing.

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Did it ever occur to you that this is not any supernatural gift or curse, however you want to look at it, that it was just coincidence that things would pop in your head that happened to be correct in someone's life or a premonition of something?

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Early on, I might have agreed with that, but when it became stronger,

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I didn't think that at all. I didn't think it was a coincidence because it was more than just knowing, let's say, some information about somebody.

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It was more than knowing names and birthdays and things like that. It was seeing things and actually being touched.

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I felt moved and pushed and touched, and it was frightening. It was really frightening, actually.

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It wasn't until somebody gave me the name of somebody who apparently helped to develop this type of, now of course what

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I would call it is a curse, is demonic activity.

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Of course, they thought it was a gift, and that's what people thought that I had, so they gave me the phone number of somebody who would develop that.

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And this individual, was this the mentor that you were speaking of before the broadcast during our conversation who was the guru or the mentor of the

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Long Island medium? Yes, and then some. We flowed in the same circle.

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So, this was an individual who welcomed to tutor people such as yourself that believed you had some kind of a quote -unquote gift, supernatural gift, psychic gift.

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Correct. That's absolutely correct, yes. And to this day, now that you are a born -again believer, do you believe that that was a genuine supernatural thing that you were experiencing, or do you believe it was just a coincidence now that you've been born again?

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Do you think that this was an actual demonic manifestation in your life? I think it was.

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I do think it was demonic. I really do, because it robbed me of over 10 years of my life, and it was frightening, and I lived in fear, and I lived in confusion.

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And, you know, things just kind of went on a decline, you know, in my life.

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And that doesn't come from the Lord. That does not come from the Lord. And I didn't know the

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Lord. I didn't know him at all. Now, did you ever at the time, and forgive me if you already mentioned this, but my brain doesn't function as well as it used to, but did it ever initially, when you were getting these thoughts about having a psychic ability, did you ever say,

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I shouldn't be doing this, even though you weren't raised in a genuinely Bible -believing home? Were you ever saying to yourself, this is of the occult.

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This is satanic. I got to stay away from this. No. No, never. I had no idea.

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I never would have even considered that. I never thought it had anything to do with the devil or anything negative.

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Right. And of course, I often hear from people, people that are not even, you know, ardent defenders of the occult or the paranormal or that kind of thing, that will say, hey, if it does good for people, if it helps people find peace, how can it be from the devil when only

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God would do that? Only God would bring people peace. Only God would mend the broken heart of mourning individuals who are grieving the death of loved ones.

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So how could that possibly be from Satan? I mean, don't you hear that kind of thing a lot? Oh my goodness.

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I hear it all the time. As a matter of fact, I just heard it from somebody very close to me a couple of weeks ago, and she actually said, well, you know, you should just think about the positive, the positive aspects of it.

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Did you help people? And I said, no, no. And there are no positive aspects to it, actually.

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But you're right, there is that deception that is still blinding people, that they look for something good, that they think that this could be from God.

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And sometimes they think that if you don't accept money for it, then it's okay. Right. By the way,

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I want to announce the email address if you have a question for Jennifer Neza -Hofacker.

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Our email address at Iron Sharpens Iron is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

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That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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This is a live broadcast if you're listening today on July 2nd between 4 and 5 p .m.

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So please email us right away so our guest, Jennifer Neza -Hofacker, can answer your question before the program is over.

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ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. In fact, we do have a listener in Fort Myers, Florida.

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His name is Mike and he says, Hello Jennifer. Firstly, I haven't had the occasion of talking with, let alone encountering, a spirit medium.

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So in the event that I should have the opportunity in speaking with one who is willing, what sort of direction would be effective or what conversational points for discussion would you suggest and or recommend?

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That's a very good question because obviously someone had to begin speaking with you at some point about Christianity, about how this activity that you were involved in was false and dangerous and of the devil.

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So when you're talking with somebody who is either personally practicing it or somebody who is just fascinated by it or seeking the guidance or wisdom of a medium, how would you turn the discussion to Jesus Christ?

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That is a great question. I want to say hello back to the writer. Mike, I think you said his name was?

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Yes, Mike in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi Mike, I have a lot of family in Fort Myers. Wow, really? I do actually, yes.

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I almost wondered when you said Fort Myers, oh that must be my aunt or uncle. You know what, that is such a great question because that's actually not something that I encountered in the beginning of my salvation, because my salvation wasn't prompted by anybody actually telling me anything about this.

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It happened in a different way, but it is something that I had to learn through my own experience over the last year and a half, and since I got saved,

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I did try to talk to people that were my clients. I tried to witness to them,

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I did witness to them, and I always start with how lost and confused people seem to be.

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So for me, my personal experience is that people always sought after me when they wanted or needed something.

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Comfort, if you will, answers, things like that. But they're always searching, they're kind of a hamster in a wheel because they've never found

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Christ. They don't have the peace of Christ. So they're always searching and seeking.

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So I would definitely ask that person that seems interested in the paranormal or metaphysics, if you will,

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I would ask them if they feel lost. Are they seeking? What are they seeking? And are they looking for the true peace that they can have in their heart?

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And then I would tell them where that comes from, through Christ alone. And I want to take this time to interject for those of you who are wondering about me having a guest such as Jennifer Niza Hofacker on my program, who was a former psychic medium, a cultic medium, however you want to refer to it, spiritual medium.

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There are people who view my program as a theologically based program and they look for matters of doctrine to be discussed and they wonder why

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I would pick a subject like this. Because there are, as you know, Jennifer, there are people within the realm of Christendom, especially

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Christian media, who because of the draw and attraction of things that are sensationalistic like this, things like this sell books, they sell

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DVDs, etc., that there are people who are charlatans out there that make all kinds of claims.

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Mike Warnke is the classic example of a person who was a renowned

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Christian stand -up comic and a part of his tours when he would speak at churches typically involved his testimony of being a, at one time, a high priest in the

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Church of Satan. And of course that's an odd combination to go from that to being a stand -up comic.

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I'm not sure how that worked out. But he was revealed to be a fraud and a charlatan.

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And of course we've heard about people making claims of being Muslim terrorists who have come to Christ that turned out to be frauds or people who have been trained in that arena to become terrorists.

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And in fact, years ago on this very program, I had an individual who claimed to be a former

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Hindu extremist who was converted to Christianity due to his hearing the sermon of a man that he and his

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Hindu friends were going to stone to death. And it turned out to be an elaborate hoax.

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The man came from like three generations of Christians. He was never involved in personally practicing the

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Hindu faith at all. And it was really amazing how he was exposed.

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He was preaching at a church in New York and showing you the sovereignty and providence of God when he was giving his false testimony.

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A man in the congregation from the same or near the same town in India where this man was from had to call to the attention of the pastor that this man was a fraud because he'd known of the individual's father and knew that his father was a

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Christian pastor and that the family had long ties with Christianity. But because of that,

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I wanted to say that I am not just interviewing any Tom, Dick, Harry, or Jane, if you will, who makes claims like this.

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I mean, I was recommended by my former pastor to interview you and I know very well your mother -in -law and your late father -in -law.

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So tell us why this is an unlikely thing that you would be making this up, especially since I sought you out.

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You did not seek me out and you don't seem to be seeking out attention or the spotlight at all.

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I'm actually the last person you're going to find seeking out attention. My knees shake if I have to get up in front of more than three people, to be honest with you.

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I'm very nervous to speak in front of people and I live a very quiet life. But as I told people when

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I was a medium, I could have claimed fame there. If that was my agenda,

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I certainly had opportunities to do that. And I had a lot of people encouraging me, sadly to say, that they were encouraging me because the mediums do a lot of the restaurant circuits.

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They have to get up in front of hundreds of people. And then, of course, as you know, there are TV programs, everything from people just ghost hunting all the way to the more common shows now.

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Never was my agenda crisp. And yes, your first statement was absolutely true.

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You did seek me out. I'm happy you did. And I can say now that this was even very nerve -wracking for me to even speak.

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And I'm in my living room speaking to you on the phone. Nerve -wracking. But what

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I appreciate... People often find speaking to me nerve -wracking, I've heard. You're so easy to talk to,

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Chris. But you know, our pastor recently has been doing a series about reaching one, and he talks to us a lot about reaching people for Christ.

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And I feel the same way that I'm sure that you feel, and that you mentioned in the beginning of the show, that if any one person could relate to something that another

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Christian has gone through and then hear how they found the Lord. Because, I mean, that's my glory.

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And that's my reward. That's my glory. Really. I mean that because I've been through a lot.

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I've been through a lot. Now, going back to the

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Long Island medium, you knew her personally, not that you were close friends or anything, but you had some kind of a connection because you were both being mentored by the same guru, if you will, a cultic guru.

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There have been news reports about fraudulent behavior and charlatanry and all kinds of things.

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Is in the occultic world or the medium world that you've experienced, since you believe that your supernatural abilities were actually genuine, now of course you realize demonic, how much of it, in your opinion, is just complete fraud and how much of it is demonic supernatural activity that is genuine?

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And is there typically amongst mediums a combination of both going on? I can only speak for myself and the people that I do know personally that have done this, like you said, the

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Long Island medium and others, that it's genuinely demonic and genuine at the same time.

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As far as cult reading is concerned, I don't know if it's fair for me to make that assessment of others per se, but on the other end of the spectrum, there are psychics that are completely fraudulent, just completely making things up.

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As far as the mediums go that circulated here on Long Island, I would say that it was genuine, but yes, all from the devil, absolutely, but genuine.

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I don't have any other assessments of others. Like for instance, specifically with the

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Long Island medium, even though there have been charges or accusations that there have been fraudulent things going on, you believe that her gift, if you want to call it that, actually as we said before, it's really a curse, her supernatural ability, her psychic ability, you believe it's real?

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I think it started that way, Chris, but from what I know now about what the enemy can do,

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I would not be surprised if, because she got so prideful and egocentric, maybe she did throw in,

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I mean, I don't know what the reports are, to be fair, I haven't read them, of the fraud that you're speaking of, but maybe her ego and her pride, well,

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I'm not going to say maybe, I have to be honest here, I believe that did get the best of her, but that's where that comes from, that comes from the enemy.

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So could she then start cold reading and other things? Absolutely she could. I don't know what the charges are, but I think it started genuine.

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Yeah, and just as you have even preachers who mix truth with lies, you have preachers who embellish personal life experience and so on, and you have the devil himself in the

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Bible mixing truth with error, as he even did in the Garden of Eden, but, well, actually we have to go to a break right now.

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If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Jennifer Niza Holfacker, our email address here is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. Please include your, at least your first name, city and state, and if outside of the

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United States, your country of residence, and if it involves a personal, private, intimate matter, and you wish to remain anonymous, you may feel free to do so.

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chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Don't go away, we're going to be right back after these messages with Jennifer Niza Holfacker, a former occultic medium who has been delivered by the blood of Christ.

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Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching? Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

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That's wrbc .us. Welcome back.

31:43

This is Chris Arnzin of Iron Sharpens Iron. If you've just tuned us in, we are interviewing today

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Jennifer Niza Holfacker, who is an ex -occultic medium who is groomed by the same occult mentor as the

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Long Island medium. And we're discussing today her deliverance from the satanic activity and her receiving the gift of eternal life through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

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And if you have any questions, please feel free to email us at chrisarnzin at gmail .com.

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chrisarnzin at gmail .com. And before we go back to the interview, I just want to plug the fact that my dear friend

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Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona is going to be filling in on the

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Dividing Line program, filling in for Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries in Phoenix, Arizona, who is on a speaking trip.

32:42

He is in Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah, speaking at a conference there. So he has asked

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John Sampson to fill in for him today, 6 p .m. to 7 p .m. Eastern Time.

32:54

And to listen to that broadcast live, go to the Alpha and Omega Ministries website, aomin .org,

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a -o -m -i -n, which stands for Alpha and Omega Ministries, a -o -m -i -n - and you can listen 6 to 7 p .m.

33:14

Eastern Time to John Sampson filling in as host of the Dividing Line. And we do have another question actually from the same listener in Fort Myers, Florida, Mike.

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He wants to know, what are your thoughts or your opinions of those in the law enforcement field who endorse the hiring of spirit mediums to assist them in the task of investigating and solving homicides?

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That's a very good question because you see that on TV frequently when there's a documentary about some unsolved crime, often involving a serial killer or something to that effect, and you'll see these police officers consulting mediums.

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What do you think about that? I think it's deceptive. I think that they are the truth.

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They're not really getting the truth. I happen to know somebody who was very high up in the police department and he was in the class with me when

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I was developing my own. Wow. Yeah, and he and his wife, who actually went on to become ghost hunters, quote unquote, what they call themselves, ghost hunters.

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Wow. He ended up retiring. My own father is a retired captain of the

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New York City Police Department, not a psychic, thankfully. Thank God.

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But I do know that police officers in general like to go on what they call intuition, if you will, or something to that effect, and maybe that's why they feel justified in hiring these people.

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But at the end of the day, you see, the enemy will deceive us, and he does exactly what you said before,

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Chris. He'll throw a little bit of truth. He hides as an angel of light. He disguises himself. So he's going to throw a little truth in there, maybe a fact, something that you can relate to, something that you can understand, a birthday.

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In that scenario with the police investigation, maybe a track to go on, a direction, or something to that effect.

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But ultimately, it's not from the Lord. It's not from God.

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So it's all a lie. It's all a lie. That's how I feel about that.

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I cannot speak of whether they've had success with that or not, but see, what is your measure of success?

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Yeah. All they're doing, I'm sorry. No, no, go ahead. Just turning those families away from the

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Lord, and guess who feels successful in that? That's the enemy. Right. And of course, even

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Christians make the very wrong mistake of sometimes believing that Satan is just as omniscient as God is.

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Satan does not know everything. He doesn't know all things that will occur in the future and so on.

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He doesn't know what is going on in the minds of every human being on the planet, but he has enough information to deceive people.

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And his minions, however they communicate to each other, I'm not sure. But wasn't there a recent thing in the news where the mother of one of those kidnapped girls who she went to her grave believing that her child was murdered because a medium had said that she knew that her daughter was dead, and she was one of the young ladies who recently escaped from her captor's home?

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Well, if we're thinking of the same situation, the same story, there was, I don't know if I can say names or not, but there was a...

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You can say names, by the way. Okay. You can say I've been tiptoeing around that. Sylvia Brown, who used to go on Montel Williams, she spoke with one of the moms of the captives that was in that house with Ariel Castro, and she did tell the woman that her daughter was dead and that she wasn't the type of girl to not call and just not come home.

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And ultimately what happened was that woman died of a broken heart.

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The mom. The mom ended up dying and did not get to see her daughter alive and released.

37:46

And she was only in her 40s. She ended up having heart complications. And I have to tell you,

37:51

Chris, because I think this will interest you, the reason why I know that is because, believe it or not, my mom is a

37:59

Catholic. So you see how I'm starting to whisper? But I cannot tell you that I'm very proud to say of her parish that they had a conference about the dangers of psychics and mediums.

38:14

Oh, that's great. That's good. It was great. And they told that particular story. So that's why

38:21

I know it. Yes. And I'm not going to mention a name right now because he's a very well -known person.

38:29

But there is a well -known monsignor in the Catholic Church who was actually reprimanded for recommending people to cease mediums who are grieving the loss of a loved one.

38:43

But I'm glad that they had that conference. And for anybody who's listening who's upset with me, I'm not beating up on Roman Catholics.

38:51

I was raised Roman Catholic. I have many family members in the Catholic Church who I love dearly.

38:57

I have many friends in the Catholic Church whose company I prefer over some evangelicals that I know.

39:04

But everybody knows that it's very common for even your average Catholic, after their loved one dies, their parent especially, or their grandparent, they will tell you that they pray to that person daily.

39:18

And they speak with that person. Not necessarily that they're hearing an audible response. But that is a common activity, especially it seems amongst

39:27

Catholics. So we're just speaking about realities here. We're not making up things. That was good clarification.

39:38

Yeah. And I'm glad to hear that that church did that. Now, do you today have any returns of this phenomenon in your mind, in your life that you are shocked by?

39:56

That why is this happening? After you've been born again by the blood of Christ and filled with his

40:01

Holy Spirit, is this completely absent from your life now? Or does it ever return?

40:07

There were a couple of times to Christ that I saw something very frightening.

40:16

And I learned that I had to renounce it and rebuke it in the name of Christ.

40:22

And I had to work with my pastor to do that. And as he said to me, the enemy's not happy that you left.

40:31

He's not happy about that. And he's going to do what he can to try to get you back.

40:37

And I said, he can do anything he can. He lost. That's it.

40:43

So there were a couple of times where I did see some scary things, but I would have to say other than that, it's absent.

40:51

And I'm so grateful. And yes, I do get surprised sometimes still.

40:58

It's been about, it's almost two years, about a year and a half since I accepted Christ into my heart.

41:05

And I just get amazed because when I go through things, sadness about certain events in my life,

41:15

I remember that every event that transpired led me to the

41:20

Lord. And I wasn't going home to be with him. You know, you talk about being saved, but when you remember that you're being saved so often, it's a gratitude beyond belief, to be honest with you.

41:36

We do have another listener. This question is from Johnny in Ridgewood, Queens, New York.

41:44

I'm a magician, mentalist, hobbyist, and I'm quite familiar with many of the methodologies of mediums' psychics.

41:53

Do you believe that such tricks of deception necessarily touches on the realm of the occult since it creates an illusion of the miraculous?

42:03

So in other words, people that are really doing it for fun, they're doing it for entertainment.

42:09

And of course, a lot of people who do it as a livelihood for entertainment are claiming that they really have supernatural power, unlike people like Penn and Teller, for instance, who expose tricks and so on.

42:23

And I believe that Penn Jillette is an atheist and he wouldn't even believe that there is such a thing as occultic spiritual activity in a genuine sense.

42:37

But that's a great question from Johnny in Ridgewood, Queens, New York. If you could comment what your personal view is on magicians and people who are doing mentalist tricks and so on.

42:47

I've just seen some a couple of times recently on America's Got Talent doing that kind of thing. I haven't thought about it that much, but it does bring to mind a little bit, and I'm sure that your friends that are pastors could probably clear this up a little bit better than I can, but Simon the

43:04

Sorcerer in the New Testament, I think he did tricks too. I don't think he was at first just trying to read minds.

43:11

I think he was trying to do magic at first, but it opened the door for him.

43:19

Remember that he wanted to then have the power of the Holy Spirit, and then he wanted to have the power of the

43:25

Holy Spirit, but what was he doing? He was getting attention. He was getting fame. He was getting money.

43:32

These are all the things of the world. Necessarily, am I going to say, you know, my own personal opinion, if you're pretending an apple is disappearing and you're making a few dollars off of it, probably nothing wrong with that.

43:45

You know, little children who do that kind of thing to their family, and nobody believes that they really have a supernatural power, and they don't even really claim it.

43:54

They just want to show off in front of their family that they can pull this trick on them. Exactly.

44:00

I think that there's a line that you're going to know that you're crossing between exactly what you just said, a little family entertainment, or are you trying to, you know, are you trying to invoke some kind of other power or force, if you will, to make money, become famous, and do something like that.

44:22

I think that's where the line is crossed. Yeah, and we have to go to our final break. If you want to ask a question of Jennifer Niza Holfacker, who is a former occultic medium, psychic medium, spiritualist medium, however, spiritist medium, however you want to say it, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

44:40

chrisarnson at gmail .com. We're going to be back in just about two minutes, so don't go away.

44:47

We'll be right back with Jennifer Niza Holfacker and more of our discussion on her being a former medium.

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That's nasbible .com. Welcome back. This is Chris Arns. And if you've just tuned us in, our guest is

47:07

Jennifer Niza Hofacker, who is a former spiritist medium, a cultic medium, psychic medium, however you want to describe that.

47:17

And she, by God's grace and mercy, was given eternal life by the blood of Jesus Christ.

47:23

And she has repented of this wicked behavior. And we are basically talking about her story, her personal testimony.

47:32

And if you have further questions about this issue, email us at ChrisArnsen at gmail .com.

47:40

ChrisArnsen at gmail .com. Wanted to point our listeners to Acts 16.

47:49

And we have the story beginning at verse 16 with Paul and Silas.

47:58

And when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future.

48:07

She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune -telling. She followed

48:12

Paul and the rest of us, shouting, these men are servants of the Most High God who are telling you the way to be saved.

48:23

And she kept us up for many days. Finally, Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, in the name of Jesus Christ, I command you to come out of her.

48:36

Now, this is quite interesting because you have this slave girl who is possessed by a devil, and yet she is saying something wonderful and true.

48:48

She is saying that these men are servants of the Most High God who are telling you the way to be saved.

48:55

And yet Paul wanted her to shut up. He delivered demons out of her.

49:03

And so this is another evidence that just because somebody who is claiming to be a medium or involved in some kind of psychic activity who is bringing comfort to people and even says things that are true, that does not mean that it's from God.

49:19

Am I right on that, Jennifer? Absolutely right. And that's the lure, and that's the foothold, and that's how they suck you in.

49:27

That's how they get you. And so going back to your personal experiences with these people, when you became a

49:40

Christian, have you really had any conflicts with them personally?

49:47

Has any threat been made against you, etc.? Now that you have left that dark world, any of your former colleagues, for lack of a better phrase, are they doing anything in a mean -spirited, nasty way or dangerous way?

50:05

No. Oh, that's good. Thank God, no. None of that at all. I wish they would have found the

50:11

Lord. I wish they would have found the Lord and gone down that road, but thankfully nobody's hurt me.

50:21

And when did it really occur to you, when was it like a sledgehammer to you that this is from hell and not from heaven, this is evil and not good?

50:34

I think for me that moment was after I attended a church service at Living Faith and that was when

50:45

I felt the Holy Spirit and I wanted to accept Christ. I came home and I said, hmm, let me go on Google and see what this

50:55

Bible would have to say about being a psychic, because I hadn't turned my life over yet. I had just gone to the one service and I felt moved by it.

51:04

And I Google searched and I saw all of the verses that came up, and I had never regarded the

51:11

Bible prior to this time. I was seeking on my own and I found all these verses and I said, wow, this is pretty bad.

51:21

This is pretty bad. And I either texted my husband or I called him and I said,

51:27

Jay, this is bad. Yeah, I did. And I realized, of course, the true,

51:34

I think the real gravity of it though, came with a little bit more knowledge too, because I was starting to come into the light with Christ.

51:41

I didn't realize the darkness that I was in. Well, praise God that you have finally come to realize that it was indeed darkness that you were groping around in and that you've been saved by that.

51:55

We have an anonymous listener who wants to know, have you ever witnessed the experience of things being raised into the air with no apparent physical reasons, such as wires or trickery, things being elevated off of the ground, et cetera, that you often see in movies and TV shows about psychic phenomena, paranormal phenomena, and I guess

52:30

I could call it psycho as well. But if you could comment on that to answer our anonymous listener's question.

52:39

No, the answer is no, I never personally saw that. I've also heard stories about that back in the day, but no,

52:46

I never personally witnessed anything like that. Yeah, well actually, you know, I can say that a missionary that I have interviewed in the past,

52:58

David Sitton, he is with To Every Tribe Ministries, and forgive me,

53:03

David, if I'm messing up the name of your ministry, but he told me that when he was on a missions trip to South America, in the jungles of South America, there was a witch doctor, a female witch doctor, who did raise these wooden poles off of the ground, and whether it was a trick or not, he doesn't know.

53:27

And when the Christian missionaries were there amongst the tribe members when she tried to do this either trick or real satanic thing, when she could not do it, the tribe members became enraged and chased

53:48

David Sitton and his fellow colleagues, fellow missionaries, through the jungles with machetes, and miraculously, they stopped chasing them for no apparent reason and turned around and walked back to the trot.

54:05

But there you have at least an experience of that that could have been trickery, but David Sitton, I don't obviously know for certain how it was done, but obviously the reason why their lives were being threatened is that the witch doctor couldn't do it in their presence.

54:23

So just to add to that from our listener, the anonymous listener, what final things in the last few minutes that we have,

54:32

Jennifer, would you like to have etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners before they leave today's broadcast?

54:40

Well, I would love to emphasize that I think you need to be very careful of the people, the mediums, the psychics, the astrologers, the card readers, and the palm readers fake, and that don't seem phony because they are even more deceived by the enemy than the fraudulent people.

55:05

And they are so deep into the lies of the enemy that they think that they're helping you.

55:14

So if they come to you or they have something to say to you and they bring any kind of true statement to it, please don't be deceived because they're deceived.

55:24

I would encourage to look for the true peace and the true healing of Christ Jesus.

55:31

That's what I would love to emphasize because it really comes through Him.

55:37

I lived a life of fear, of confusion, and of doubt and of worry, and I was afraid to die.

55:46

And things were just falling down around me. Now anything could fall down around me externally, but internally,

55:53

I know where I'm going. I have peace. I know who to turn to.

55:58

I know He's always with me through every trial. I would never need to ask a fortune teller or somebody else.

56:07

And I go straight to the Bible, and He's just always there for you. Christ is always there for you, and you're not going to have to keep asking.

56:14

There is a listener in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, CJ.

56:21

CJ says that the vast majority of times I have seen necromancers or mediums on television.

56:31

They are speaking nothing but good and wonderful and pleasant things to those who are grieving the loss of a loved one.

56:42

Right. Now the question is, is this a common practice where only good and pleasant things are being told to these grieving and mourning people, or do you have the occasion where the opposite is true, especially in regard to loved ones who are allegedly in hell?

57:06

Now obviously, you did have the incident you mentioned earlier when the medium so -called gave the false information that the woman's daughter was murdered and she was still alive.

57:17

But as far as the common practice, I'm assuming it would be much more of a profitable enterprise to be telling people good news rather than bad news.

57:27

In fact, that's even true in the Christian church. As far as financial profit, you have some of the largest churches on the globe who don't give the bad news that's in the

57:37

Bible. They only give the good news, which is no good news at all if there's no hell that people are being saved from, which makes grace not amazing at all.

57:48

But as far as the mediums go, it seems, and I agree with our listener, CJ and Linenhurst, that you seem to always hear over and over again wonderful and pleasant and soothing things, and if you could comment.

58:01

I agree with you. I see that a lot also. From my own experience, though,

58:07

I can recall times where information was passed along that was, let's say, maybe bad news medically speaking for something in the current time, and I'm sure maybe psychics who pride themselves on their fortune -telling may divulge information like that.

58:25

But yes, I agree with the listener and you too, Chris, that it does seem to be more profitable to just say,

58:32

I love you, and they love you, and I want to say something about that, and this is in regards to anybody that you listen to.

58:39

I encourage you to test the Spirit, and I've found that I've had to do that a lot in regards to many different people, and even people that are full prophets and come in the name of Christ, but I'm not so sure they are.

58:56

And I just thank you so much for being our guest today, Jennifer Anizo -Hofacker. I know that your church is the

59:01

Living Faith Christian Church in Farmingdale. Their website is livingfaithny .org. Is there any other contact information you care to give to the listeners, or do you want me to just leave it at the church website?

59:12

That's absolutely great. Thank you so much. Livingfaithny .org. We want to thank everybody for listening, especially those who emailed questions, and I want you to all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

59:24

Savior than you are a sinner. Even if you've been involved in satanic activity, Jesus Christ can save your soul, as our guest can attest to.