Episode 18: Christmas and the Lord's Day

Rural Church Podcast 2.0

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the rural church podcast 2 .0 Wait a second.

00:08

It's December That's better Just a couple of pastors discussing life ministry theology the gospel from a local church perspective

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Eddie What's it time for? the rural church podcast

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Welcome to the rural church podcast my favorite month of the year episode 18 happy December I'm your co -host

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Alan Nelson pastor at Prairieville Second Baptist Church with me is my jolly old friend

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You're not that old Eddie Ragsdale. Say hello, Eddie Hello everybody, and I've got my

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I've got red and white on to me It's Razorback red and white, but you know, it can kind of be for Christmas, too

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It is the most wonderful time of the year. We're recording this in November. Actually, we're recording this

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Did you say any the day after tell me it was either yesterday or today that they estimate that the human population on planet

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Earth will for the first time pass eight billion people eight Billion eight billion.

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Yeah, and You know, there are many secularists who believe that that's far too many people on the planet however, we live in rural

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America and we know that there is space for people to inhabit and And I think that our view ought to be these are souls

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That that God deserves the worship and the glory from their lives and we ought to preach the gospel to them that they could be

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Born again. Amen. That's right. Our mission field is Growing that's right.

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Well, it's December what we want to talk about the Lord's Day and Christmas Day so Christmas and New Year's fall on the

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Lord's Day on Sunday this year And I think this is the last time for like a while because I think next time like leap year

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I'll look it up real quick But I think next time leap year kind of pushes it so it's going to be a while before it falls on Sunday again

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Yeah, I believe the last time was exactly six years ago. That's right 2016 because This last

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Sunday was my six -year anniversary as the pastor here at Marshall On that exact Sunday was my first Sunday as the pastor which meant that everything that all the

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Sundays would be the same as That year and we and I remember we had with Christmas that first year as the pastor here

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We had Christmas on on Sunday that year. It won't happen again So think about this from 2005 to 2022 it happened in 2005 2011 2016 2022 so in 17 years, basically it's happened four times in the next 17 years from 2022 to 2039 it'll only be three times three times 2022 2033 and then 2039

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Oh So after this year, you have like 11 years basically until it even gonna come up.

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Can you think about that? Think about that with your family, bro. How old are your kids gonna be in 11 years? They're my 27.

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Yeah Yeah, I mean may may have grandchildren. Whoa the next time the

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Lord's Day falls on Christmas falls on the Lord's Day. You're going to be a grandfather good good and you could do

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The little church podcast hey listen what we want to talk about is because we we kind of live we're in rule churches

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People have traditions those sorts of things and we want to talk about Christmas in the Lord's Day probably most people listening to this by this point

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December 7th You've probably already made up your mind. Maybe we can persuade you on some things to think through Even now so tell us tell us why you're canceling your services on Christmas I don't know who you're talking to because we would not be canceling our service on the

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Lord's Day Well, let's talk about first. Let's talk about what you're doing and what we'll talk about what we're doing and then

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Then we'll go from there. So what are you guys doing Christmas Day? Well, I'll be honest We really haven't made any specific different plans than just our normal Lord's Day Worship I have been thinking

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Although like I said, like you said we're still pre Thanksgiving right now There's a little time to think through these things.

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We I'm thinking about us doing and adjusting our Sunday school I don't want to cancel it.

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I know there'll be a lot of churches that will cancel their Sunday school They'll only do the

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Lord's Day worship service and and I'm not gonna say that that that's you know Sunday school is not commanded, right?

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so, okay if they think that's better, but I actually am thinking what I would like for us to do is maybe a like a

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Christmas morning a family style gathering for Sunday school instead of individually age segregated classes for Sunday school and then move into the

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You know the regular worship gathering, but we haven't decided on that yet. What would you do for Sunday school?

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Maybe maybe like a kind of like a reading of the Christmas story and a and and Talking and doing some things kind of as a as a whole church family together with the kids maybe, you know hot chocolate and Christmas cookies for breakfast if more if Or something like that and then move into the regular worship gathering, you know

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No, I don't think we would want to do a whole like a whole full -on breakfast because I'm sure

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Most of our folks will still be gathering with family, you know in the afternoon and and they'll be having their big

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Christmas dinner and things but but we might do some kind of an abbreviated breakfast with a with a focus on on on The birth of the

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Savior and y 'all don't do anything Sunday night, right? Well, we have we have a

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Sunday evening prayer meeting at another facility that our church has And we probably won't have it that night, but we cancel it pretty regularly

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So that's not a like we don't have it every Sunday. Anyway, so your

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Your Sunday morning service. Will there be anything different? Probably not

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Yeah, probably not this year in the past. We have done some some different things, but I'll be honest

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We don't have any of those in the works yet, and it's probably too late for us to get You know, we've done some we've done we done a shadow kind of a shadow play thing one year for Christmas and then

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I preached the gospel after that that and so we have done things like that which

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But probably probably this year it'll be pretty pretty much our normal. I mean, it'll be it'll be

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It'll be incarnation focus. We will be singing songs about the incarnation preaching on it, but We might add some extra scripture reading.

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So let me tell you where we're at And then also I also want to talk to you about January 1st. I asked you about that Well, let me tell you where we're at.

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So I've talked to some guys I was actually floated out the idea, but like you said about Sunday school, what do we do about Sunday school?

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It's going to no matter what we do. I feel like it's going to be different. Maybe we use Sunday school

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You know, I figure it'll be a little bit lower obviously non -negotiable. I'm gonna talk about wine in just a minute But non -negotiable that we meet that we gather that we worship.

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Yeah. Yeah, if you're why would we not? Yeah, if your church cancels You're in sin,

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I'd go so far to say that like you can't do it so so let me say this not only that but I would even say this your worship needs to It needs to functionally not really be

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Any different I'm teaching right now through the regulative principle and So I'm okay.

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Like for example, we might add some scripture readings, you know And we might do something like that just because it's so on Everybody's minds.

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I understand we are not by the way commanded to celebrate Christmas And there are faithful brothers who do not and sisters who do not celebrate

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Christmas. That's their right I think either way you could go wrong. Like if you're gonna demand everybody celebrate

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Christmas, you're wrong I think if you're going to demand everybody not celebrate Christmas, you're wrong. And so I but but there are faithful Believers who don't so we're not commanded to celebrate

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Christmas however, look if you if you're just gonna preach you're like So not gonna celebrate

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Christmas like you're just gonna preach whatever on that day I think you're missing an opportunity for some rich theology to teach your people the hypostatic union and and and these glorious truths of the incarnation

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Anyway, so I'm I'm pretty Firm that we have to have we still have to follow the regulative principle

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Like we're not going to do any kind like we don't ever do any kind of skits or plays or anything like that on our Sunday morning main corporate gathering because we believe that we have to you know, our position is that we have to worship

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God as he has Instructed us to worship him. And so we're not going to change anything, but Sunday school

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Like you say that could be a little bit different Haven't fully decided how we're going to approach that and then we we meet

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Sunday night, which sometimes we dismiss Sunday night So, I don't know what I'm gonna do yet for that Like I think

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I'm going to I sing about doing like a hymn sing or something just basically we'll you know, we'll gather still and sing and and and and chat look, um

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There might be other things going on Where people are committed to other things in the evening a little bit different, you know

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But that's really I haven't really fully decided but but the main gathering you have to do the main gathering you have to reach you can't by the way substitute preaching that day for You know a choir cantata or or a that's right

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You know a five -minute christmas devotion or something. You need to preach the word. I actually use the opportunity perhaps you have a

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Great number of visitors depending on your location and such use the opportunity to preach christ

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The glorious realities of the incarnation and and why jesus came and i'd also say this

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You don't have to get creative Just preach the old story brother Right, you know look there are different texts that we can think about For example,

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I was reading through john recently in in john 18. Jesus talks about for this reason I was born to bear witness to the truth, you know, and I was like Why be a good christmas text there and yeah on 18 at your mind so you can think

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Create creatively about you know, which text and looking at so but but look just preach the incarnation god became man

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God has visited his people. He came to redeem us from our sins. Matthew 1 21. There's a text

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I was thinking of that same text from uh, From john, you know, uh for this reason

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I was born, you know, um, yeah As you mentioned, you know, not not all christians celebrate um

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Uh christmas, you know the the puritans weren't fans of the christmas celebration

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They thought that it had uh had problems that it could actually lead them away from worshiping the lord um

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But I think what we want to remember is that yeah, we I mean would you want to only deal with the incarnation?

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um When you came to those birth narratives, I mean you I think there is wisdom in us going back

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Uh on a regular basis So for us it's yearly To make sure hey this year.

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We are gonna we are gonna at least at this time of year. We're going to focus on Uh, like you said the hypostatic union christ coming in the flesh that god came

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Uh, jesus being the one mediator between god and man because he was 100 percent god and 100 percent man

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I think that that is good. I think it's good that we have a time of year when we focus exclusively

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On remembering the death burial and resurrection of christ and that we don't and we don't just say well

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Well, we'll preach on that when we get to it in the text. Well, yes, we will do that But I think it is good that we that we have these commemorations that help us to think through that which of course we're always preaching the the death burial and resurrection of christ because it's a gospel, but I think there is value in Uh taking this approach that that we want to use this

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To teach this theology. You're trying to become liturgical on me so Hey, I think let me say this.

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I think there is some wisdom and value in the liturgical calendar by the way, you know I just I just hold it.

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I obviously i'm a baptist. I hold it a lot more loosely Right, then then some of our brothers and sisters.

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Anyway, what were you going to say? Well, and I was going to say, you know, I I was listening to a video and a

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A reformed pastor. He made this reference. So I didn't read this in calvin, but he made this reference that actually calvin

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Wanted the celebration in the reformed calendar. He wanted it to be On the nearest sunday to december the 25th not on december the 25th

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He wanted the observance to always be on sunday, so here we are Discussing what are we going to do because it happens to fall on sunday?

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When if you to talk to calvin and maybe all the reformers they would have said well Well, of course

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What else are you going to do as a matter of fact? They probably the argument would have been from them that when it doesn't fall on a sunday

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They would have been discussing the type of church meeting that they would have had if it fell on a tuesday

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Me personally I love You know what happened in 2016

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I loved it I loved it, you know I love it on a sunday and and here's what

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I was going to get to so Are y 'all still technically southern baptist? um, well, we we do not contribute to the cooperative program but Let me we're trying to figure out the logistics for for lack of a better term

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Because a lot of our brothers You we may get off on this but I don't want to but a lot of our brothers who have left the southern baptist convention

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As i've called them up to say hey, how did you guys do that? They said well, we just decided we aren't anymore and stopped giving and i'm like well then

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I don't think you actually left Because I bet they still count you Yeah. Yeah. Well, here's here's where i'm going with it.

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So Believe it or not The bad there's more that I would want to say about this

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But This on its surface is not a bad statement in the baptist faith and message 2000 this is from article 8 on the lord's day

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But this so so what the what i'm saying is Many southern baptist churches out there at least say they believe this which is

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The first day of the week is the lord's day. This is paragraph article 8 The first day of the week is the lord's day.

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It is a christian institution for regular observance It commemorates the resurrection of christ from the dead and should include exercises of worship and spiritual devotion both public and private

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Activities on the lord's day should be commensurate with the christian's conscience under the lordship of jesus christ

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Now that's changed a little bit let me read to you the 1925 and 1963 those didn't change but Pretty similar.

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The first day of the week is the lord's day. It is a christian institution for regular observance It commemorates the resurrection of christ from the dead and should be employed and exercises of worship and spiritual devotion both public and private

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And then it says this which the 2000 didn't and by refraining from worldly amusements and resting from secular employments work of necessity and mercy only being accepted

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And then let me say this that comes from that comes all the way back from the new hampshire confession

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The new hampshire confession says this article 15 We believe that the first day of the week is the lord's day or christian sabbath

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And it is to be kept sacred to religious purposes by abstaining from all secular labor and sinful recreations

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By the devout observance of all the means of grace both private and public and by preparation for the rest

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That remaineth for the people of god now this comes from and I won't read this because it's so long but this you keep

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Tracking our ancestry you go all the way back to the philadelphia confession, which is You know the 1689 with a couple right thing so which really hammers the christian sabbath

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The point is though if you're listening to this and you're a you're a baptist at all if you're a southern baptist or a baptist at all,

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I like you really come from a long line of godly men

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That understood at the very least sunday as the lord's day which

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I usually call the lord's day, but The christian sabbath as well And and I understand we get all like what you can do what you can't do all those things

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That'll be a different episode, but i'm just saying for this episode We understand that god has given us as it were 52 holidays

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Yeah, yeah a year in celebrating christ yes, so How in the world could you even begin to think of minimizing

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The worship of our great and holy god on christmas, right? Right.

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Yeah So the lord's day so whether we take the lord's day view or the christian sabbath view The the the most important thing

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I think to notice for this discussion is that yes What we're talking about is the lord's day worship as we're as as we see it in the new testament and Yes, what was the church supposed to do?

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They're supposed to sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs They're supposed the elders are supposed to teach god's word the apostle's doctrine to the people

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They're supposed to pray they're supposed to have fellowship with one another, you know

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So in our church what's going to happen on sunday is the same on sunday christmas day is the same thing that happens every sunday

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We're going to have public reading of scripture we're going to sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs

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We're going to have the word of god preached and taught we're going to have opportunities for people to share

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Prayer needs and for people to share praise reports and testimonies of what god has done in their life

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And we're going to celebrate the lord's supper. That's what we do every sunday And like pinky in the brain

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And that's what we're going to do. What are you going to do? What I try to do every day take over the world actually eddie

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Respond to this what you just described sounds very very very Ordinary You know what we have found in our church and you know

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I I don't want to get off onto the issue of how often churches should do the lord's supper I'm not making a law here.

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We do it every week and i've always heard people say oh man, that'll get so Uh road and it won't have any meaning

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And we've even had some pushback here with people thinking that but i've also had people come here Who have actually joined our church since we've been doing it this way

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So they've never known our church to not do lord's supper every week and And they've come to me and said

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Wow, this is we we you know when we first came we thought this is kind of strange but they've actually come to love it because It is so ordinary

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Because it is so ordinary because There is a way that we participate and and the way

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I look at it is You know, so often we talk about the means of grace What's not a means in which we receive new grace because we already have all the grace in christ

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But I would say the means of grace that is given for the for the worship Of the lord on the lord's day in the church gathering are a means by which we participate together in god's grace

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So that is fellowship meals. That's the lord's supper. That's singing That's the preaching and teaching of god's word.

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All of these are means by which we all participate together In the grace that we have in jesus christ

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And the grace of assurance the grace of Growing in christ the grace of growing together.

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This all happens through the ordinary means of grace And and and to say ordinary isn't minimizing

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But it is saying this we've got to stop being so event -driven in our churches. Yes, like Let's gather

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And the ordinary things that we're doing are actually the extraordinary things. They actually are the supernatural things

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We're preaching from god's book. We're singing praises to god. We're Participating in the ordinances.

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We're we're praying we're giving we're we're doing all of these things Sunday after sunday after sunday why because we need it like we're creatures of Of of habit as it were and we need to be taught we need

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You know, we need we need this every single lord's day. We need it every single christian sabbath as it were this this corporate gathering and and honoring the lord together and so it's like how could we even like like the answers are like The answers already

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Give it like we already we don't have to wonder like what are we going to do sunday?

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I don't care what the sunday is. I don't care, you know, yeah We're going to meet we're going to preach we're going to do it and I think

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It's kind of neat when these holidays fall on these sundays like this particularly with christmas. I mean, that's really the only one right?

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I mean Yeah, i mean easter is always on sunday Sunday thanksgiving's always thursday, you know, yeah.

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Yeah, so it's kind of neat when when christmas falls on sunday and it all kind of All kind of comes together and I would just say

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Keep the lord the the priority Uh, and and that's that doesn't matter

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That's every sunday and that should be every day as well. But go ahead well, and and like for us

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I don't want to just keep harping on the on the lord supper thing. But um,

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You know every sunday, uh, we don't go to first corinthians 11 every sunday

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Uh, so I think that part that would get monotonous if every sunday we said exactly the same thing in taking lord supper so every sunday basically, we we uh, we highlight um how the

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The lord supper is representing christ body and blood as we partake together as a church um from different passages of scripture usually

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And this has been amazing, but I found almost always there's a way to tie to get it from Even the text that's being preached that morning

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Um, it's just amazing how that it god is has woven it into the scriptures that being said

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So on these sundays even leading up to christmas day and then on the sunday of christmas day

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The focus of our even our lord supper We will be able to be thinking about the body, you know, it says in hebrews the body that he has prepared

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You know the the body that made our salvation possible was the body of christ born

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And laid in the manger on christmas day And so I yeah, I just I think there are so many opportunities

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Where we can we can enhance in some way Our ordinary means that we're doing the lord's day, but we don't have to we don't have to change

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From what god has given us to be doing on the lord's day And we certainly shouldn't cancel what god has given us to be doing on the lord's day.

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Yeah, I think I I think this is more reason for churches to be confessional

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Because you've already Think through these things, you know, well, let's talk about january 1st.

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I know it's a little bit different but you know The the the 25th and 1st are a week apart always, you know falling on the same day.

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So What about january 1st? What about new year's anything different on that day? um

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I don't think so. What what what are you planning? Are you planning on doing anything different? Are you going to be then are you going to be in the next passage in ephesians?

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Are you have you got something planned different for january 1st? well,

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I actually I will probably preach you'll be finished with the visions by then

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Maybe by the time january 1st falls on the sunday again, let the listener understand

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Uh in ephesians 5 paul talks about try to discern what is pleasing to the lord I actually think that might kind of line up And I think that would be a good you know,

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I think the first sunday of the year And maybe you don't want to do it on the first But the first sunday of the year or maybe january 8th, like I think those are good

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I think it's a good sunday for sort of um Where are your churches state of the church?

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Yeah, where is your church at? Where are you going? I mean, you know what i'm trying to be careful here if you don't want to break your exposition certainly you don't have to but but just think i'm not saying your church makes resolutions wherever but just just think about the reality that Your church is kind of in a natural time one year's ended you're you're starting a new year and it's it's time sometimes to to address some things, but I don't know what we're going to do.

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We might do a new year's eve fellowship If we do that and then maybe kind of like pray in the new year or something if we end up doing that We we might end up canceling sunday school, you know

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Because people being out late and all that and and we'll have gathered, you know something but then we'll we'll do our again

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Just like christmas we'll do our service normal Now i'm saying in our evening service that night we actually might

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Spend 45 minutes Or so of our service just reading scripture you know to start the new year reading scripture and I was looking up some things like romans.

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I think you can read in 57 minutes That might be a little long. I don't know We'll see or or or I was thinking about first second and second timothy and titus those three you can read together and maybe like 40 minutes

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Like that would be good You know the pastoral epistles and thinking about being a healthy church and all that so we might do that on sunday night you know, but but um

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I want to be careful here Family time is important And spending time your family i'm not minimizing that at all

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It's strange that people have this idea That I can't have family time in the corporate worship of god.

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Yeah. Yes Yes, that doesn't make sense. I think it's a misunderstanding Of family time.

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I think it's a misunderstanding of corporate worship. Yes It's it's really problematic the way that we think you know

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I have this thought in the new testament like we tend to Especially in the rural south we tend to think of christianity as something you add like i've got this life

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I've got these goals. I've got these dreams And i'm just going to add christianity onto that and everything's hectic And now that's why you have people writing books and stuff about oh, don't be so hectic at the church

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And I understand I do understand that, you know, don't add things to the church calendar. Just just to be busy

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At the same time we need to understand this reality that in the new testament They didn't add christianity to their lives rather christianity reoriented their lives around The kingship of christ which is which is really only manifested in the scriptures in the local church

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What I mean is not that the christ reign is not manifest everywhere What I mean is if you're going to live as christ as your king, you can't do that separately from active

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Involvement not just involvement in the local church as though the local church is like Like the rotary club or something but but like where your life is reoriented now around the local church

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Not just on sundays, but even beyond that. Yeah, you know thinking again about the

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Probably what will happen for us with um the january 1st is

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I recently kind of preached through a series that was kind of the state of our church

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So we kind of don't need that I don't feel like and i'm about to finish

30:09

Jonah, probably this sunday And so I think what's going to happen for us is so the next sunday after i'm done with jonah will be

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Starting the sundays leading up to christmas day So I believe what i'm going to do and we don't

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Do you guys you guys do the advent candles? I believe y 'all do right in your church. No No, we don't do them in the church.

30:34

I thought you did what we do as part of family worship Okay, we we don't do the advent candles, but I I think what i'm going to do is preach a series through the the meanings of the advent sundays and um

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Leading up to christmas because i'm not in the middle of a book because i'm just finishing one And I don't want to start another one and then take a break for christmas day, you know

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So I think i'm going to do that and then we will probably be starting our next book of the bible on january the first Which I haven't settled exactly on what that's going to be which we discussed that.

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Yeah, you know last week we in one of those podcasts We discussed the idea of how you pick the next book, but i'm right now looking at probably picking one of the pauline epistles ephesians galatians philippians one of those probably and so i'm praying through that looking at those and But we'll probably start that on january 1st, but but I don't think that we'll change anything

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I do think that we will probably have a saturday night meeting and i'm just going to tell them to suck it up.

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Yeah Yeah, so suck it up and be here at nine o 'clock on sunday morning Yeah, right.

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Well, I don't care like yeah, i'll be up and ready, you know so They can sleep sunday afternoon.

31:54

I uh I preached a message one time. It's funny. I was preaching through jonah

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I was preaching through jonah close to christmas time and I preached a message called a christmas card from jonah and uh,

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I just talked about four things jonah Would put on his christmas card to remind us You know,

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I kind of use that loosely, you know, just a joke but four things that jonah reminds us that you know

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God remembers runaways god rescues resistors Uh, I had to look god redeems rebels and god receives repenters and I just kind of you know, uh,

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I kind of preached a top a kind of a topical a thematic sort of message from that kind of went with The season, you know, so I know that there are some guys out there and and and you know, lord bless them that that they refuse to Budge at all, you know,

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I don't care where you know, if i'm wherever i'm preaching i'm not moving on this sunday, you know But I think that there's also some wisdom in the calendar to think through what what we're preaching and people's heart like Well, this could be a different episode but People don't become less dead in their sins around the christmas season.

33:18

Yeah, but but the reality is there are Opportunities that seem to be more prevalent

33:25

You know the guy the guy's going to The hardware store.

33:30

He's going to his local hardware store to get a rake And he hates god

33:36

But as he's he's buying the rake blaring over the speakers are You know heart the herald angels sing

33:42

Yeah, right. So like I'm just i'm not saying he's less dead in his sins, but there's opportunities

33:48

That we have during this time of year to Proclaim the gospel especially in the south maybe

33:57

Maybe easier avenues if that makes sense and Let's let's let's point out something else.

34:04

That's just a reality no matter how healthy your church is On christmas day there are going to be some people in your church that are not there

34:15

Because they're traveling their family lives three hours away And they're going to be at their in their family meeting.

34:22

They still may be in church But but they won't be in your church gathering because they're not going to be in town

34:29

And that's just going to be the reality in in almost every church and then

34:35

The flip side will be true in a lot of churches, too. There will be people in your gathering

34:41

That aren't normally there because maybe they're in town Because their family is in town.

34:47

So I have one deacon. I have no doubt that christmas morning uh, he and his wife who usually are the only two in their family here because all their kids are grown and have moved away

35:00

They'll probably have you know Two rows of chairs filled up with their children and grandchildren because they'll all be here that sunday morning

35:08

So we will have people we will have some people not here because they'll be traveling to be with family that day

35:15

And we will have other people who will be here because they've traveled to be with family that day

35:20

And that is a reality and if you try to say why i'm not worried about that, that doesn't matter

35:26

Well, it's a reality. It's it's what's going to happen preach christ be ordinary sing pray worship

35:38

Honor the lord. It's really an easy decision. What we're going to do this sunday is what we're going to do every sunday

35:44

That's right. That's right Yeah, well brothers. It's been a good a good episode talking with you as always

35:53

Can't believe we uh have already made it to this. I can't believe we're so far scheduled out. Praise god. Yeah So hopefully as the as the holiday season and the end of the year and all this kind of stuff shakes up We'll still be having an episode every week.

36:07

Hey Um, I did I did want to mention this before we sign off the podcast today. I think it was yesterday

36:13

No, it's probably monday I binge listened to uh several episodes of the

36:22

Things above us round table and everybody should go over there and listen to that There's a couple guys.

36:29

Who are those guys? Uh Thanks for mentioning that. Yeah, my me and uh, my friend michael coglan from uh, pickerington around columbus, ohio do that one and I have that Mark to mention and I appreciate that might have slipped my mind.

36:47

So yeah, we knew you guys mentioned you guys mentioned us Michael brought it up And you guys mentioned us in one of the podcasts that I listened to So we record at 5 15 in the morning on wednesday, so Oh, wow, you should jump in one on wednesday

37:03

Well, I I have uh, I have a prayer meeting before we record this one on wednesdays.

37:08

So well Okay, then all right, brother, this has been a

37:14

Uh a good word. We'll uh, we'll catch you guys next week on the rural church podcast

37:20

Say goodbye eddie You guys have a merry christmas This isn't going to be the last episode before christmas

37:29

It might be the last one they listen to I don't know. No keep listening all the way to christmas.