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Welcome to a special edition podcast for Media Gratia. I'm Matthew Robinson, director of Media Gratia. I'm here with my good friend Dan Pugh, who I'm gonna introduce to you in just a few minutes. We are outside the city of Oxford, England on a trip with Jeffrey Johnson, Teddy James, and Stephen McCaskill as we shoot the upcoming church project, which we'll tell you more about in the show notes.
But we've connected with our good friend Dan Pugh. Dan is from the village of Caer Gwyrlae in North Wales. Caer Gwyrlae. That's what I said. It is, yeah. It was perfect. Caer Gwyrlae. Can you say it for me one more time?
Caer Gwyrlae. That was what you said. And Dan has been a good friend. I've counted you as a friend since meeting in 2013. Is that right? We met in 2014.
It was 14? I've been piecing this together chronologically in my mind in preparation for this. And we met in 2014. But I think we were in the same room together in 2013. Okay. You gave, you spoke at a midweek meeting in Caer Gwyrlae.
You were visiting Darren Gilchrist at the time, who was then my pastor. And I remember you spoke, and I had no idea who Medigrace was or the holder of God. I had no idea who you were.
And I remember As 99 .9 of the population, you were there. And now you've moved into this very special, tiny fraction of a percentage of the population who does know who Medigrace is. I just remember thinking to myself, I really like this guy.
I can imagine if we ever got together and spent time together, we'd get on really well. But I'll probably never see him again. I was trying to work out, I wonder what he does. I thought maybe he's like a sales manager or something.
That's what I thought he was. I'm terrible at selling. But I remember being very struck and moved by the testimony you gave. And yeah, I thought I'd never see you again. But we met in 2014 when I visited New Albany.
Yeah, I forgot Darren had me speak at that, I think it was a midweek prayer meeting. And yeah, and I just assumed that because you were there and I was there, that we met. But we didn't meet actually until 2014.
So what was that? How did that happen?
Darren and Rachel, Darren's ministry was a great blessing to me. It really shaped me in many ways. And he introduced me to the Beholder of God study. And in January 2014, he invited me to come visit New Albany, Mississippi with him and his wife, Rachel.
And we came and he palmed me off to your family on one of the days, it was a Sunday. And we went to the Brandons and we spent time there. And that was the first day we spent together, I remember. You shot guns.
Yeah, you showed me how to shoot guns, it was awesome. Shotgun, pistol, flight bond.
Yeah, yeah, I remember we broke out the AR -15s. And anytime somebody from the UK comes over to the States, we always try to take them out and shoot guns. And we'd break out the scariest looking ones, like they were AK -47s and all kinds of stuff.
But you stepped right up to the plate. You were just firing them, it was great. It does something to a man.
But then I stayed with you for a bit. Yeah. Remember? Yeah. And I enjoyed it, so I came back the next year. Stayed with you again.
That's right, and then we went to the Shepherds Conference. We did, Los Angeles.
And that was both our first time. We debuted L .A. together. And I helped with the Mediacrete booth.
So in 2016, we went to the Shepherds Conference together. And I remember having a conversation there, maybe in the hotel breakfast area, about, you know, Dan, what do you wanna do? What do you think you wanna do, you know, going forward?
You were working, I think, at a bank in a finance position or something?
It wasn't a bank, it was like a data admin job, yeah.
So you were the CEO of a bank back home. And I remember asking you, you know, I know you have the cars, you have the houses, you have all this stuff, but I know it's not really satisfying you. So what is it that you really want to do?
And I remember you saying, well, I'm interested in doing film. I like to, I think I might be interested in doing documentaries.
Yeah, that was it. And yeah, I mean, working with Mediacrete on the booth was kind of, I was getting kind of a feel of the conference circuit and what you did with your life. And by that time, I'd seen Logic on fire.
I was working in the bank in office. And I remember the moment I was sat at my desk and I was just thinking to myself, is there anything I want to do other than this with my life? Because I'll gladly do this if this is what the Lord wants me to do, you know.
No worries, but is there something I've got a passion for? Because I never really had a passion for anything. And then I suddenly thought, ah, film and video, I love that. What can I do with that as a career?
I don't want to do like TV or kind of Hollywood. Not that I can do Hollywood. And then I suddenly, like a light bulb moment, I don't know if you've seen Logic on fire, but the credits at the end and the pictures of the crew.
And I was like, that's what I want to do. Make Christian documentaries. I don't know how or, Media Grata was all I knew about that. So I thought, well, I guess they're the guys to reach out to and to talk to.
Yeah, and I remember you asking, so what should I do? You know, how do you get into something like that? And my advice to you is the advice that I give to everybody who asked me that question. I actually just got a question through Instagram private message a couple of days ago from a kid in the Philippines.
And he was, how do I start making Christian documentaries? And my answer to him is, just start making Christian documentaries. And if you have any technical questions, then there are answers for those things.
And we live in the day where there's no reason that you can't learn to do anything that you want to learn to do. There was a time when there's a saying in the States, that a guy goes into an old Western village and he orders a glass of iced tea.
And the bartender says, I'm sorry, we don't have any ice. The guy who had the recipe died and we don't know how to make it anymore. So there was a time in life when you could, when the guy who has the recipe could die and you just wouldn't have access to that information anymore.
We live in an information age. And if you want to know how to do something, technical skill can be acquired. And so my advice to you was go make a movie, go figure out what you want to do and make a movie.
And we're interviewing you today, not just because you're such a jam up good guy, but because you have done just that over the last, what, year and a half, you have made a film called Matthew Henry, The Life and Times of the Bible Commentator.
That film is finished now. And we, Media Grazie, are going to distribute that film for you in the States and even here in the UK because we've watched it and I think that it is, I think you did an excellent job.
You know, Stephen and TJ and us, we've watched it a couple times and have just been impressed with, I mean, you know, it's a great, what do you call it, a great freshman film. I mean, you know, you come right out of the gate and it's very informative.
Philip Eveson, who I want you to tell us about in just a little while, is there. Philip is a spiritual man and so there's something of a spiritual ministry just in this historical documentary because he's always pointing to the beauties of Christ that Matthew Henry saw.
And, you know, technically it's well done. And so, you know, tell us a little bit about the film and tell us a little bit about maybe who Phil Eveson is.
Well, I suppose if you're gonna give a strapline to the film, it would be the man behind the commentary. So... What commentary is that? Exactly. I'd hope most people would know, but you never know. Matthew Henry wrote a commentary, 300 years ago is when he lived, and he wrote an exposition of the whole Bible, Genesis to Revelation.
He died before he could complete it. The last Romans through to Revelation was written through shorthand notes by his friends. And it's probably the most well-regarded commentary, one of the most well-regarded commentaries in the world.
Now, when did he live? He lived 1662 to 1714.
So he's a Puritan. He is, he's a Puritan.
He lived towards the end of the Puritan era, but he is a Puritan.
Sure, and so this commentary is maybe the only commentary. I like how you say it. This commentary is... It's the only commentary that is still in production and has never not been in production. Is that the truth?
That's the truth.
That is the truth. 300 years, no other commentary has lasted that long. And it's been, I mean, Whitefield used it, Charles Wesley used it. It's been commended by, well, pretty much every prominent minister spoke highly of it.
J .I. Parker speaks highly of it. I heard about it growing up. My father loves it. And he just, it's a very rich commentary, which is expositional, but also devotional and has an applicatory quality to it.
He applied it to the Christian's life. It's a very warm commentary.
Right. And the man has a beautiful way with language and with words. Yeah, so it's not a technical commentary in the sense of, you know, so the first 60 pages on Ephesians is all about where is this located?
And, you know, all of these different technical aspects, but it's very much seeing Christ and applying, as you said, you know, what the passages are talking about in a very warm and devotional way. It's the kind of commentary that you can read devotionally.
Yes. I mean, you know, in your morning devotions, you can, as you're reading along, you can go and then consult, sort of run right alongside of Matthew Henry and to get a very warm sense of what the text is saying.
Indeed, and at the same time, it's not a devotional. It's a very thorough, comprehensive, almost squeezing out of everything that's in the passage. His grip of narrative, of the biblical narrative is fantastic and he doesn't leave anything out.
It's well-rounded.
So probably it goes without saying that the thing that Matthew Henry is most well-known for is the commentary, but that's not the only thing that happened. You had a fairly interesting life and your film does what?
The film tracks his life, his personal life, his family life, his ministry. The way the film came about, I read Philip Eveson's biography of Matthew Henry. He grew up and lives currently in Wrexham, which is 10 minute drive from my house.
And he, I read this book in preparation to make the film. It had been suggested to me that I make the film by my pastor. We sat down, me and my pastor, and we were discussing media resources for the church.
And he said, why not make a 20 minute biographical video about Matthew Henry? Because all the locations, most of the locations about Matthew Henry relevant to him are within an hour's drive from my home,.
Other than the London locations. Which gives you a leg up over a lot of people who are interested in getting into Christian documentary. You're a half hour drive from, as you said, almost every significant area of Matthew Henry's life.
So it's all right here.
It's all right here. So I thought, I'm kind of uniquely, almost providentially placed to make this film. Nobody else is quite possibly going to come and do this film. I may as well, and I've got Philip Eveson on my doorstep, who is a Matthew Henry guru, expert.
I read his book in preparation for this kind of sketch. I was going to sketch biography, 20 minute biography of Matthew Henry for the church. I was like a church resource. And I was reading it and thinking, the man's life just gripped me.
I was like, he went through a lot of hardship, a lot of bereavement. He grew up in the weight of the act of uniformity. 1662 he was born, the same year it was passed. And that act was a government legislation that required every minister in the Anglican church to conform and prescribe to everything written in the book of common prayer.
And anyone who didn't do that would be excommunicated from the, not only from the church, but they would be excommunicated from their home, their livelihood, they lost everything. And you read in his diaries, the accounts of what happened to him and how the sorrow and the pain of it really affected him and troubled him.
And yet through it all, his eye is always on Christ in a very real way. It brought me to tears at times reading the book, how much he went through and how much he would, not only look to Christ, but you'd read his summaries of his life for the past year and what his reflections were.
And he'd say things like, I've had many mercies the year that has passed. How little I've done for God. He'd be preaching the day after his daughter died. And I thought, man, what a life, and what an example and what an inspiration.
His ministry was blessed. His life gripped me. And I thought, nobody knows this story. All they know is there's this guy, this name on a spine. Sure. Who made this commentary that everyone knows about.
And I thought, people, it's a good, it's a story that the world needs to hear and nobody else is gonna tell it. So I thought, I may as well tell it. And Philip Eveson agreed to do the film. So he presents the film.
If you want to get an idea of what it's like, you can imagine it as a Welsh David Attenborough. That's what he's like. He's very engaging. And he tells the story very well. And so, yeah, it was a privilege to work with him on the film.
Yeah. And also, it's called Matthew Henry, The Life and Times of the Bible Commentator. So we take little vignettes, segues, into sort of significant events in the history, the times he was in. Legislation that was passed.
Other things like that. Interesting side notes. Yeah, one thing that I'll say about the film is it is very detailed. What's the running time? Two hours. So it's a two hour, and you spend the first several minutes, I mean, you have a fairly good idea of what kind of man his father was before you really get to Matthew Henry in the film.
Philip Henry was less so now. By the time he was quite well known, almost as well known as Matthew Henry. And so I wanted to get that into his early life.
He grew up playing with King James. Is that right?
They were boyhood friends? King James and King Charles II. Yeah. His father, John Henry, was Charles I's assistant or servant, personal servant to the king.
Amazing. And his son, Matthew Henry, was a remarkable child from very young. There's a part where Phil says that he was reading and maybe even explaining parts of the scriptures to the family when he was three years old.
Now, I don't know what your three-year-old does, but I have a four-year-old, and I'm really impressed when, like, I think, man, this kid can really play this Nintendo Switch. Like, he is really, he's a lot better at Sonic the Hedgehog at four than I was in high school.
So I have hope for him, but he's not exegeting the scriptures at three, you know, to my shame.
I don't know if it was three years old, but it was pretty much, pretty close. I know he could read the Bible very well at three. I think at nine years old, he was leading prayer meetings with his sisters.
Yeah.
Who does that? Matthew Henry does that. Matthew does that. He did that. He's an exceptional human. Yes. You know, there are child prodigies out there, but he seems to be a spiritual man, a spiritual child, you know, have some grasp of these things.
Do we know when he was converted?
We do. He was converted around the ages of 10 to 11, after which, it was under his father's ministry, after which he then went home and started writing down the marks of a true believer. You know, he'd be exploring this at the age of 12, 13, examining himself, making notes of what it meant to be a Christian.
Going on from that, he, as he grew up into his 20s, Philip talks about how, Eveson talks about how the counsels he gave, the writings he wrote to his friends, sounded like that of somebody who was in his 60s, who was like, you know, a wizened, gray-haired, mature counselor of the faith.
Remarkable man. Yeah, so we don't make much of men, but God, through Christ, gives gifts to the church. He gives us preachers and teachers and evangelists, and so clearly, these are giftings that come from the Lord Jesus to a young boy as a gift to the church, and what's amazing is, through his writings, it's not just limited to the commentary.
We have other books that he wrote. We have books that his father wrote on prayer, and very helpful. Those gifts are gifts that keep on giving, and so, you know, I'm really happy that you were able to put the film together, and it's available now, and that, you know, it's something that, even if you're only interested in history, you should be interested in who Matthew Henry was, because his life and the life of his family touches so many very significant historical areas.
Yes, the historical areas are important, but also, my hope and prayer is that the film will be a blessing to a wide variety of people, from ministers to parents, families. There's stuff in there. There's lessons we can learn in there.
About how to do family worship, how to deal with bereavement, how to deal with problems, difficulties, strains in ministry. A wide gamut, so my hope is that it will be a benefit to many, and what you were saying about Christ raising up men, and Christ working and transforming men, that's the sense I got reading it, was that this is, it was real.
It wasn't like this ivory tower, great monolith of a man who had these faculties that are far beyond anything we can have. Maybe so, maybe he had a good education. Yes, he did. He was taught by his father very well, who was educated in Oxford, but his testimony of his life is one that is very, in many ways, very simple.
It was a simple faith he had in his God, in his Savior, and his desire, if you read his diaries and his letters, you can see that his desire at all times is to bring glory to his Father, to commune, have closer communing with his Father and with his Savior.
That's where his heart's desire is, in so much grief and heartache and confusion, and that time that he was living in, there was plenty of persecution as well. It wasn't an easy time socially, culturally, to be a Christian, and always he's looking at his needs of sanctification, his need for the Lord's help, the Spirit.
It's so important to understand, we do talk about men from the past a good bit, and yet we are always saying, look, we don't wanna make much of men, because men are just men. The best of men are men at best.
And it's important for us to not think of these guys as though when Matthew Henry is walking through life, and he's facing bereavement, he's facing persecution, he's facing hard times, that he looks in the mirror and goes, come on, man, you're Matthew Henry.
You can handle this. People are gonna make films about you. You're gonna write a Bible commentary that's gonna be in print for 350 years straight. Not at all. They were just men who looked into the Word and bet everything on the fact that the God that they met in that Word really is who he says he is, and really supplies all the believer's needs.
And we are all made of the same stuff. If you're listening to this podcast and you are a Christian, then you are filled with the same spirit as these men. You have the same scriptures that these men read, and you have the same God, and that God's arm is not any less strong to save or to work in our day than it was in their day.
And so we want to point you to these men, not because we wanna make much of men, but because we want to remind you of what I just said, that we do have the same God, and he still works in our day and in our generation.
Our job is to trust him the way that they did, and to risk everything that he really is who he says that he is. And so my hope is that this film will just be another part of gripping this generation and generations to come with those realities, and that the Lord will raise up.
He will give gifts to this day and this generation that are equal to and perhaps go far beyond these men that we're so inspired by. You know, again, this is your first film. This is you coming right out of the gate as a young man who wants to make Christian documentaries, and so you just pick up a camera and go and do that.
You asked me several years ago for advice for people who may have a desire to go into making documentaries. So now I'm gonna ask you if you have any advice for people who are listening, who may have the desire to go into making documentaries.
I'd say pick up a camera and go film. Find a subject or a person from history whose life speaks to you, whose work speaks to you and has helped you, or an issue that you feel is important and that is needful to talk about today, and go film.
Reach out to people who can give you advice.
Matt's here. Yeah, the only thing that I would add to that is, you know, it's not a calling, you know? I don't think that there's, I don't think you can say in the same way that, you know, a minister has to be called by God, but it is in a different category, I think, from, well, I just wanna do something, you know, I don't know, it might be fun.
Like, I just wanna go do this. I mean, there's, everything that Medio Grazie has done and everything that I want us to ever do, it's not driven by, hey, this might be fun, or hey, we might make some money doing this, you know, or hey, we should, cause that, I mean, you are well-versed in the fact that that's probably not gonna be the case.
Absolutely. We don't wanna give anybody the idea that, you know, hey, if you wanna get in, if you wanna make some money, get into the Christian documentary world.
Absolutely, and also, yeah, so you've gotta, it's gotta be something that you have a passion for. It's gotta be something that you feel this is what you need to do, in one sense. It's what I felt. I felt like I can't not do this.
And also, it's not, you don't, there's no magic formula. You don't need to go to school for it. You don't need to get a degree and a PhD in it, or a master's. You can teach yourself. I taught myself. There's plenty of resources online that you can use.
And it is an accessible, I was talking to TJ just to, today, about how accessible this is now. It's not like, for the filming elite, it is something that, if you have a camera, and a tripod, and some editing software, and a laptop, you can do it, if you have a passion for it.
That is important, by the way. You've gotta have a passion for it. It can't be something you think, well, that's a nice idea, I might do that. I pursued this film single-mindedly for a year and a half.
It was like a train I was on. So it has to be something that you're very focused on, and that you're very single-minded about.
I would say that's important, too. Sure. Yeah, and the only thing that I would add to that, if you are listening to this, and you're thinking about doing that, there's always a question of motivation in the Christian life.
If your desire is to make a name for yourself, if your desire is to just, I don't know, just do something, whatever, well, I mean, it's not a black and white moral issue, but the desire, the thing that I can testify that the Lord will bless is a desire to make Christ's name known, and to point to him through whatever film you're working on, whatever Bible study project, whatever media project you're working on.
And so, if that's your desire, I wanna make Christ known, and I wanna use this media to do that, well then, you can have confidence that Christ is more zealous to make his name known than you are, and why would you ever feel that way to begin with, had it not been placed there by him?
So you can pursue those things in confidence.
And also, well, that's the thought that kept coming to my mind as I was seeking to embark on this, was, it kept coming back to me, only what's done for Christ will last, right? If you're out just to make a name for yourself, as you say, or to see what you can gain from life, whether it be a career, or family, friendship, hobbies, pleasures, it's all, we're on this Earth for such a short period of time, and what are you gonna do with that time?
And what are you gonna do with the gifts that you have? And if you feel you've got a gift in this area of making films and documentaries, then that's great, but motivation, as you say, is absolutely key, and that was the key driving force for me, was I wanna make something that will be used for his glory and to help fellow believers, and not just believers, but help fellow believers in their walk with the Lord, and also show people the gospel, people who may be interested in Matthew Henry historically, I've met people like that, who are not Christians, who think, oh, Matthew Henry, yeah, he wrote down the road, but have no interest in the Lord, or in Christ, or any of his claims on us, or his love for us, or his sacrifice for us, and that is my, that's what I want, I want this film to be used for.
I've made it, and now I leave it in the Lord's hands. As I let it go into the world, it's going, I pray, with the blessing of the Lord. I believe that it will. I believe he has a purpose for it, and I hope that that's the case, I really do, because, yeah, it's what we leave behind.
I'll be gone and forgotten in 60 years, gone to be in glory, which is far better, but what I leave behind is not Dan Pugh's film, a film by Dan Pugh, what I hope I leave behind is a life that is a testimony to the grace and power of God and of Christ in a person's life, and what he can do, and what we can become for his sake, when we are enraptured by these truths, in a way that grips us, and is our, all in all, we cast ourselves upon it, and it's not, in the same way that making a documentary is not something, it's not a plus thing, it's not this is what I do, oh yeah, and it's about Jesus.
These men were people who were all about the Lord, Jesus Christ, and he wasn't a caveat or a footnote to their lives. Matthew Henry wasn't a commentary writer first, he wasn't a preacher first, he was a Christian and a follower of Christ first.
Well, again, the film is Matthew Henry, The Life and Times of the Bible Commentator. It's available worldwide at themeansofgrace .org, mediagratia .org, and everywhere where fine Christian documentaries are sold.
Dan, thanks for spending some time with us, we had a great day getting to run around, do some film stuff, and thanks for telling us and telling the people about this film that you've made. My pleasure, brother, thank you.
He was an ironic man, he had a peaceable spirit about him.
By that time, the strength and power of the Puritan movement was very much on the way.
Matthew Henry, let's say it this way, lived at the end of the Puritan age and was a stalwart leader among the few Puritans that remained. He's a positive Puritan, he expected great things of a great God, and he saw those things in his own ministry.
Thinking of some of the challenges and the recommendations that we hear today, be an expositor of the word, sequential expository ministry, and others say, well, preach the word. Matthew Henry's doing both twice every Lord's Day.
His commentary was a staple for evangelical Christians in the decades and centuries that followed.
The commentary has been in print for 300 years, which hasn't happened with any other commentary that we know of.
1662 is an important year, especially for non-Anglicans. It was the year the Act of Uniformity was passed, causing some 2 ,000 ministers of the gospel in England and Wales to be removed from the people they served and prevented from exercising their God-given callings as gospel ministers.
It's often referred to as the Great Ejection. But as every dark cloud has a silver lining, so this grim year for many godly preachers was also the year Matthew Henry was born. God would use him not only as a gospel preacher to his own generation, but for the spiritual benefit of succeeding generations of Christians.
For Matthew Henry is perhaps best known for his writings. Particularly, his internationally renowned Bible commentary. Join me on a journey through places and through history as we look at the life of the man behind the commentary.
Thanks for listening to the Behold Your God podcast. All the scripture passages and resources we mentioned in the podcast are available in this week's show notes at mediagratia .org slash podcast. That's M-E-D-I-A-G-R-A-T-I-A-E dot O-R-G.
You can also get there by going to themeansofgrace .org. You can watch the podcast there through our YouTube channel or subscribe via iTunes, Google Play, or anywhere you get your podcast feed. The Behold Your God podcast is a production of Media Gratia.
If you're unfamiliar with the Bible study series, documentaries, and other multimedia projects that we produce, let me invite you to have a look around for materials that you can use in your church, small groups, Sunday schools, or family worship at mediagratia .org.
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