Q&A #2- 2023 Laborers' Conference

All right guys, let's get started. Come on in and find your seat real quick. Again, I know this is something you're going to enjoy. We've already got a couple of good questions laborers. You already got a couple of good questions.

So. So Jesse gave us a challenge today to ask questions, right? We should ask questions. I was always raised up ask questions ask questions. Sometimes it got me in trouble, but it was good right to ask questions and so.

Guys let me find my there it is right there. Okay. You're ready. I'm gonna moderate. So y 'all get in there close together. If I need to ask a question I will. If I need to answer I'll jump in. All right, so brothers.

The Unforgivable Sin and Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit

You'll turn your Bibles to. Matthew chapter 12 verse 31 through 32. Matthew chapter 12 verse 31 through 32 Mentions that the unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Can you clarify what that means and can a genuine believer commit this sin?

Not all at once. All right now we got the other wireless to gear. It's not working. Check one two. Okay hit that.

Yeah, check check.

Hey, that's better. So as to the the subject matter with blasphemy in the Holy Spirit if we back up a few verses to verse 22 a demon-possessed man who was blind and unable to speak was brought to him being Christ and he healed him so that The man could both speak and see and all the crowds were astounded and said could this be the son of David.

I wonder When the Pharisees heard this they said this man drives out demons only by Baal's a bull by the ruler of the demons. Knowing their thoughts He said he told them every kingdom divided against itself is headed for destruction.

And no city or house divided against itself will stand if Satan drives out Satan. He is divided against himself. How will this kingdom stand. And if I drive out demons by a by Baal's a bull by whom do your sons drive them out?

For this reason they will be your judges if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God that the kingdom of God has come Upon you. How can someone enter a strong man's house and steal his possessions unless he first ties up a strong man?

Then he can plunder his house. Anyone who is not with me is against me and anyone who does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man It will be forgiven him.

But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him either in this age or the age to come. So with the context we have the context being that Christ was asking our demons that he was healing the sick and that this was Discredited by the Pharisees that this is the work of Satan.

So I would say that to blaspheme the Holy Spirit Fits in that context of denying the work of the spirits as part of the triune God. I don't believe that a believer can blaspheme the Spirit in this way.

Because no one's speaking by the Spirit ever says Jesus is accursed and no one can say Jesus is Lord except in the Holy Spirit. So that's 1st Corinthians 12 3 pretty solid.

Any follow-up questions or any rebuttal. It's okay. We do this together, right. Any additions for you guys to we like Tyler?

Any modern-day examples of blasphemy in the Holy Spirit. Well, I've come across people that say the Holy Spirit is like the force from Star Wars. And there's not actually a person that can be known that he's not part of the Trinity.

He's just like the wind.

Check check. Yes. Great. There's. Unfortunately, there's tons of examples. There's many pastors that are preaching and they Not only misunderstand the attributes of God or Confused to Godhead, but they actually blaspheme the Holy Spirit by Uttering and just saying a bunch of nonsense that I won't repeat.

So, you know pastors like for example, I would say I would throw in here's one for you I'll throw in and and pastor Andy Stanley as a modern example of someone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit. Mike Todd a lot of the prosperity Gospels a lot of the non-traditional Christians should I say that are Blaspheming the Holy Spirit a lot like every Sunday that are saying things that are contrary to to God and.

And.

Unfortunately. They they are protected by the law and unfortunately many churches don't speak out against them enough by calling them to repentance and as they should and That is detrimental to the church because they have millions of followers.

You know, they have massive influence. They write books. They these guys travel on pinstripe jets some of them and. So, yes, there's many examples of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit Within the so-called church.

I.

Think the grievousness of Blasphemy in the Holy Spirit is as grievous because it comes up against the Trinity. It eats away at the very nature and character of God does not.

Just to clarify to blasphemy is not the same as disobedience. Claude would you speak to that real quick? What could you define blasphemy? And I think we all know what disobedience is. We've committed that right is simply disobeying.

Knowing that you what knowing what you ought to do and do it not to him. That is sin, right? That's disobedience. What's the difference between disobedience and blasphemy?

Disobedience is not doing what God commands. Which is done two ways omission and commission. Right by not doing. Or by not doing what you're supposed to or doing. What you're not supposed to. Yeah, exactly so.

But blasphemy is attributing to God the works of Satan. This is exactly what the scribes and Pharisees were doing there Jonathan. They were attributing what God was doing Jesus the Son of God. They were attributing what he was doing to Satan.

And there is a converse to that blasphemy as well. Attributing to God something that God is not doing.

Does that make sense to everybody. So if God's not doing it you should attribute it to God, right? I think that.

This is the latter part of what brother Claude said is Is dangerous. How many times have you heard somebody say God told me this? I think that you had better be extremely careful whenever you start using that kind of language because Now you're saying that the Almighty has said something and that that's should be and is The same as scripture if God's speaking it is scripture.

So all right I've had that question asked me several times the question was if If I'm worried that I've committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit Then that's evidence that I haven't committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Is that did I frame the question correctly? I would say that I Believe that to be the truth a true statement because that would show To me and through scripture that your heart is at least still supple and it hasn't been Calloused to the point where God's not the fear of God is not in you.

These people that were Attributing the works of Jesus and the Holy Spirit to Satan had no fear of God anymore even though they claim to be the priests of God anybody who would for a second consider that that God in the flesh is standing in front of them wouldn't have jerked them by the beard and smacked them in the face and Said you tell me right quick if you're really God or not, right?

So there there's no fear of God in them for shorter team treat one of their countrymen that way let alone somebody who They think there's a chance is divine. Does that answer your question, bro?

Yeah, I would I would just echo that I think when we get to the issue of blasphemy To to kind of demystify. I think a lot of times we're worried that We're going to slip up and blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

Okay, just make no mistake according to Scripture this is no like slip up this is no like oops I bless him the Holy Spirit and I'm going to hell for all of eternity. That's not what this is. This is deliberate rebellion against the works of God.

This is Romans chapter 1 that they knew God, but they did not honor him as God. So therefore then God turned them over and that turning over is a punitive judgment in Romans 1 and so that's it. So so a lot of times this is used the manipulative scripture to kind of create fear in people and you know.

And especially in the hyper holiness movements and those kind of things of that nature. It was like you better worry what you say and how you dress and what you watch and what you do. You might just accidentally blaspheme the Holy Spirit and whoops.

It's too late for you we believe in a sovereign God who in first Peter chapter 1 is able to keep you standing and That's why we would say that an authentic Regenerate person would not ever commit this because God is able to keep them from committing that does that make sense?

I mean like I like what Jesse said ooh Vikings. I'm gonna save him, you know, okay, you know I mean like he does that's what he does. And so just make sure you know, this is not like an oops moment. This is a deliberate rebellion these guys.

Deliberately in this text that Tyler read us. They were deliberately rebelling against the teachings and the work of Christ therefore deliberately rebelling against the teachings and the works of God and Rejecting the rejection of the drawing and the working of the Holy Spirit.

There's there was an outright Rejection and denial of that and so therefore that is blasphemy and there is a place then the Bible says that the Spirit of God Will not always strive with man. He saw salt repentance with tears and bitterness and there was none to be found.

So there is this place where like it's there's there is judgment. There is punitive judgment where God has a right To say, you know, but again, it's not an oops moment. So it makes sense everybody All right.

Let me move this. We'll go ahead Robert. You'll take one more.

Just a little bit on that I Wouldn't finish wrestling with God until he's giving you some kind of assurance. But the very fact that you care what God has to say is a very good sign. I mean the scripture does say make your calling an election.

Sure is God asking us to question our salvation. Well Really only a Christian is going to take that advice anyway. Because they care about what God has to say. So you're you're in a good position if you care what God thinks and so.

Yeah.

Well one last thing. What is the work of God in the modern day? You say? Oh, what are the works of God? The fact that they're not massive demonic possessions everywhere. That is a work of God. That is pretty much already done.

Like obviously there are some very rare occasions very. But not not normal. One of the works of God that is for sure is the Bible.

The Bible.

Was translating and preserved for thousands of years. This Bible is true and inspired. So that is a work of God. Everything is a work of God what we have on our phones and our hands like six copies at home, right?

The average American that is a work of God. So if somebody is coming against God and you want to be like, well, what is the work of God? Well, one of the works of God is The Bible that you have in your hand at home.

So if they're going against God God's Word. Like pastors this one pastor said you need to unhitch from the Bible. We're too married to the Bible and it's like what?

No, that's Andy Stanley, by the way, exactly.

Exactly, so if they're going against the word the Word of God that's like clear red flag number one. Easy.

Okay, we'll move to start next question. If you do have a question I will be glad to come to or you can text it to me. These are questions that have been text to me. So you those of you that have my number you feel free to text me.

I greet it from here or I'll come to you and you can ask it personally. So question number two good. Ephesians chapter 2. Ephesians 1 or 2 or a couple of my favorite chapters in the whole Bible. So Ephesians chapter 2 verses 1 through 6.

This person says they mentions that you were dead. That you were dead in our sin or we're dead in the transgressions of our sin. But Christ made us alive. Does this regeneration. So the question is really not whether regeneration happens or not?

Does this regeneration take place before or after justification. Go ahead.

Okay, we check the mic roll tide. Where you at, okay, okay, so. That that this goes to the theological Term of the ordo salutis. Okay, so the order of faith Jesse talked about Latin terms, right? Ordo salutis is the order of faith.

There are two views of the order of faith one view says faith comes before regeneration and the reformed view holds to the idea that Regeneration precedes faith that it comes first comes first. So when we think about this this idea this theological concept I mean in whether it's in just plain logical terms For example, it's a it's a bad example.

Nonetheless. It is an example. Have any of you ever poked a dead person with a needle? The answer is probably no and if it's yes, something's wrong with you. Well, well, yes, yes. Yes, but my point is this a dead person does not and cannot respond to external stimuli.

Right. That's what this text is talking about that. We are dead in our sins incapable of responding to God by faith unless God first gives us life and that is what the term regeneration Means that it is the term for the new birth giving of new life.

So when we are made alive according to the text here in Romans chapter 2 or Ephesians chapter 2 Then we are able to respond and as the text moves forward just to read that the continuation of that. You were dead in the trespasses.

In the in you were dead in trespasses and sins in which you once walked Following the course of this world following the Prince of the power of the air the spirit that is now we're at work in the Sons of disobedience among whom we also once lived in the passions of our flesh.

Carrying out the desires of the body and of the mind and whereby nature children of wrath like the rest of mankind but God Being rich in mercy because of the great love with which he loved us. Even when we're dead in our trespasses He made us alive together with Christ by grace, are you saved and He has raised us up with him and sealed our seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ.

So that in the coming ages, he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace and kindness toward us in Christ Jesus and then we have that Familiar text that everybody has memorized for by grace. Are you saved through faith and we stop there?

But wait, there's more. By grace, are you saved through faith comma and that not of yourselves? We don't produce faith within ourselves. For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves it in reference to faith it is the gift of God.

Faith itself is a gift of God in. And not a result of works, right? It's not something that we do. It's not something we muster up within ourselves not a result of works so that no one may boast because the the tendency for Christians is to for us to boast in what we have done.

What have we done? It was quoted yesterday by somebody the only thing that we That we Contribute to the work of salvation is the sin that made it necessary. Right, that's it. So by grace are you saved through faith?

So regeneration in the order of salutis precedes comes before faith as a necessary consequence.

Hey, all right. Miss Noelle.

The question of predestination comes up often and Working with young people. It's really hard to Get them to see but what scripture can we use when they say, you know. Well, if that's the case then, you know, God has created man to fall, you know.

So then how much free will is in that and etc, but what scriptures or How do you guys attack that when that gets presented not just by young people, but even adults, right? Like how do you do that?

So she's a teacher and teaches at the Christian school, so she gets a lot of those questions. So to frame it just a little bit. How do we address double predestination? I think that's the first part of the question.

So does God predestine people to go to hell and predestine some to go to heaven? It's a light one. Come on. Correct now while they're thinking we'll give them a second to think about that. I do want to make that clear.

We don't all believe exactly the same thing setting up you. Okay, when it comes to open-handed issues, I didn't say that very clearly. Jesse you're the second. Dan was the first. Jesse is the second and I didn't tell her by this order Presbyterian to preach in this pulpit now, okay.

All right. Been on and on that right?

Y 'all didn't know.

You didn't know there's a third in there somewhere. Well, that's right and Tyler. But Tyler you're going to nod the knob church though, so you're kind of you're in that mix right now, right?

Yep.

They got drunk with their church, so we say that joyfully and lovingly that These issues are serious issues. They're not heaven and hell issues. They're open-handed issues and we have disagreement in those things.

But man, what a reunion it has been for us. I don't know if you've enjoyed the conference, but while they're still thinking on this. We have enjoyed just getting to see each other in person we've been doing this podcast thing.

For I don't know a couple years now for some of you and for me a little over a year now and stuff and it's like We see each other on the screen. We've never hugged each other as brothers. We've never shook hands.

We've never you know, and just to get to be together and the fellowship has been very enriching for our souls. And so so again We don't all agree on some of these open-handed issues. Okay, so even on this one specific question There may be a difference of answers if we were to ask every person or every person gives an answer.

So just know that it doesn't mean we're in disagreement with the gospel. Okay. You're right or not. We we actually have Statements of faith that we say that are the non-negotiables that we agree upon.

We will go to task we will go to war together over these things and then in other things. We'll jab each other about like I can't believe you baptize babies, bro. What's up with that? You know, she's a sprinkle.

You know, so no we will we'll jab each other on those things and and gets a little you know, so. So it's uh, it's fun. We actually had a debate about that Plato baptism versus credo baptism. You're here.

I don't know. It's maybe a month or two ago something like that. So. So we want it. We won't we're not hiding from those issues and we're not hiding that there's differences. But we hope that we're demonstrating that even amongst differences in the body of Christ.

There are absolutely rock-solid Close-handed biblical issues that you must believe in order to really to be considered a Christian and then there's others that's like, you know what? That sounds weird to me, but let's talk about it or days like where you sound weird John you sound like a country boy you know and You know.

But it all works out. All right, so who wants to try to tackle a little of that?

So let's go one question at a time. Sure. You phrased it, right?

So the first question so I would say deal with predestination. You help me make sure If I'm making that right, okay, so She gets the question a lot about predestination and basically Do we believe or do is is the reality of double predestination?

What is your perspective on double predestination. Double predestination means from the? Eternity past God predestined peace some for hell and some for heaven.

So to the ad to the theological concept of double predestination. Logically there has there are two sides to a coin. Right. So when we consider the term predestination and we're going to read a text from Ephesians as well.

But when we consider the term predestination, it means to mark out beforehand. So when we read the term predestination in the scriptures. It means to mark out beforehand to set a course so to speak. You hear in Ephesians Just one chapter back chapter 1 verse 3 blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places? Even as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world. The us is very important there. It's not everyone in general.

He's speaking to believers here at Ephesus. He has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world. What that we should be holy and blameless before him in love. In love and this is important. This is important when we consider the idea of predestination that it's not a random or careless Choosing by God, but it is based in his love.

For the term for knowledge itself that we read in other places is Means to be foreknown or to be for loved in the Old Testament. We we read God speaking about choosing Israel and he tells them it's not because you were bigger.

It's not because you were greater, right? It's not because you were better than anybody else, but because I have chosen to set my love on you. Moving forward very quickly. He predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ.

According to the purpose of his will so here we still see sovereignty. To the praise of his glorious grace with which he has blessed us in the beloved in him. We have redemption through his blood the forgiveness of our trespasses.

According to the riches of his grace. Which he lavished upon us in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a Plan for the fullness of time to unite all things in him things in heaven and things on the earth.

So the the idea of double predestination two-sided coin, right? There's they're saved and lost. There's redeemed and unredeemed humanity at large or As a whole let me put it this way humanity as a whole is lost.

Why we're born sinners? We're born separated from God the miracle and the beauty and the grace and the humbling effect that predestination should have on. The redeemed is This that it's not. The amazing thing about grace is that God would choose any of us.

Right. So double reap double reprobation can be looked at in this way if you pictured a circle I can't draw stick people. I can't even make a circle with my hand. But if you were to imagine a circle being drawn on a chalkboard and you had a group of people inside this circle.

It election. Predestination is God from all eternity choosing to set his love and his affection on Individuals and not every other not all the individuals and passing over them. Because the the the conviction of sin, right when you when you come to a saving knowledge of Christ The Holy Spirit convicts you of your sin and you realize that you're lost right?

Regeneration takes place. God opens your eyes. You realize you're lost and undone. Right. God draws you to himself and inevitably because God calls you draws you.

I.

Did a bad job of answering the question before I just realized it back. You've mentioned justification. So regeneration takes place before justification, but God regenerates justifies Adopts the process of sanctification takes place.

Okay, but in the case of the lost it's not God necessarily in arbitrarily being mean and saying No soup for you. Right if you watch Seinfeld, but it's God. It's God passing over. Right. It's just for example, if you've got a if your husbands and wives with Jonathan What could anybody fault you for just choosing your wife to be your wife.

No, and if they did who cares. Right because it's your prerogative right and salvation is just that it's God choosing individuals and calling them unto salvation and Leaving the rest of humanity Justly damned in their sin.

Let me see if I could give you a philosophical approach to this since you're a teacher. You know climbing Mount Everest is really high in and Mount Everest has like four four different base camps at different altitudes you know, I mean and if you want to if you want to look step back from this question and Just look at this.

It's kind of like it is kind of like a Mount Everest of a question here. Okay, and so and if you want to just remove Christianity for one second just remove it and just be like what other cultures or Philosophies have attempt to answer this question and climb this Mount Everest, right?

The two people that have climbed and done their best to reach the top or Plato and every straddle. You could throw in Socrates. Maybe they have done their best to climb did they reach to the top? Absolutely, not.

They got to maybe to the third base, which is like 14 ,000 feet. Which is half of Mount Everest or probably less, you know and Christianity Paul the Apostle and others I actually climb all the way to the top and we reach there.

That's why RC Spurl says when philosophers finally make it to the top of the Mount Everest of wisdom. They will be surprised to find theologians already there. So so whatever straddle and Plato. And Socrates attempted to answer this question.

It's called determinism. Right, if you take your philosophy classes, they call determinism. Like everything is determined for your life. And that's why whenever straddle wrote his State of affair book called politics He said that people are born into slavery.

He tried to answer the slavery question. Why is there slavery? He's like, well people are just born into slavery. There's no way about that unless they purchase their way out. But some people are born slaves and some people are born free and he came up with this determinism.

He he landed there. So by the time Augustine and Calvin comes along They are correcting the course of philosophy and saying Okay, they tried their very best to attempt the mystery of God. Good job. But it's not determinism, right?

And like what he said Is that it's actually everything is rooted by a motive not this Arbitrary motive of the universe that's invisible force or whatever that determines your lot in life. So from a philosophical point of view, I'd like to come at it from this angle Augustine and Calvin came at it from like God predestines people.

Okay, and the audience and the scholarly mind in Europe understood Determinism pretty quickly and if you talk to many scholars and universities, they say oh, that's just determinism. Actually, it's not because determinism is not rooted in a God or a person of love.

There's no love you're born a slave. You're born a slave. Oh, well get over it. It's the fate of the universe. It's your lot. Calvin is I know God predestined Jacob to be the heir of you know Israel this where there's way more love and comfort in this actually that the that the That Aristotle didn't even have access to right and by the way, where'd I ever try to get it from?

By the way, did he read Moses and Jeremiah. Right. So for for resources read the West Westminster Confession of Faith the Belgic. You know continue do your research on these resources. To to help you with your journey to answer this so I would encourage you to read the West West Heidelberg the Belgic they all have great summaries of this.

So just read them go back to the text and then when you go back to Aristotle and read that you feel like wow. Like that's where they get that from and that's why these students are coming from. That's why they're asking you that because they're being told in public school that it doesn't matter what you do.

You're just you're just here just because someone puts you here, you know, listen, it's an invisible force that puts you here. Ism and eternalism and determinism, right? So yeah, you're just animals right?

You're just animals like like Darwin said. So that's why they're coming up with those questions because it gets the brain going and thinking about like whoa. Is there a reason for life? Is there a purpose which are existential philosophical questions with Augustine and Calvin?

Bat a thousand at so I will recommend research researching and continuing your reading on that.

But it's great when one more resource would be the Synod of Dort look up the Synod of Dort s Y n o d of D o r DT or the Synod of Dortrick. They they basically came up with a line-by-line affirmation and denial concerning Predestination specifically.

Yes, sir.

Sorry.

I was just gonna say this is a very difficult question to articulate. So two two more words to dig into. Is God's decreed of will and God's permissive will. Those are two things to look into?

So I'm the only non Calvinist on the panel, right not to say that I don't Agree with part of everything that was said. God is sovereign. If God isn't sovereign and who is right and to some degree. Everybody agrees in limited atonement either God limited atonement whenever he cried Testalia or we limit atonement by failing to surrender to this God.

So have it whichever way you want to in terms of that I I don't know that it's that important in terms of how you look at it from a perspective of us. A W Tozer said a few things about it. I thought we're really good.

He said if we could if we could know all the mysteries about divine election divine sovereignty about about the return of the Lord and impending Judgment, it would make us scholars and theologians, but it wouldn't make us a saint.

While every word they said may be 100 true or not. If you're dealing with someone who feels as if though they were born for hell. The brass taxi as we were all born Deserving hell and we have no idea who God will save or more importantly for me is to why?

God would save because we are so deserving of this damnation and The sheer majesty and grace of God that anyone would be saved still still messes with me if I look at Romans 9 as an example of Someone being able to tell God what he can or cannot do with the clay.

I do not see Romans 9 as an example of saved and lost. There are many folks that God have used that God has used and will continue to use that are his. Just like an owner has vessels some are used honorably and some are used in manners that are dishonorable.

And or other words, there's a chamber pot and there's a cereal bowl. We don't get those confused. Right both owned by the Potter.

Both.

Probably equally as appreciative of the Potter. So while some look at Romans 9 as an example of those born for hell and born for heaven I do not. If that's one of the examples it was in your mind. I know that that's one's commonly used.

Somehow we have to marry the sovereignty of God the grace of God the long-suffering of God and The statements that God does not delight in the damnation of the wicked and the wood that none should perish But that all should have everlasting life with God has chosen Who he'll save and I'll let you walk with God until he enlightens you on the how he's done that in a manner that suits You and pray that God gives you wisdom to deal with these children as he sees fit says.

Amen.

I.

Let somebody else answer the Romans question just just a you're talking about where it says for.

God works all things out to the good of those who love God. Those are called according to his purpose for those he did for. No, he did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his son that those who he'd do it for predestinate.

He did also justify and those who justified he also glorified something to that effect. It's absolutely. So you would see. Correct. Yeah to those that he did predestinate which is very clearly a sovereign call.

Like I said, I don't. I don't deny the fact that God is sovereign and the call every single epistle written by every single Apostle says I fill in the blank call as an apostle sent by Jesus Christ. There is most assuredly an election most assuredly.

I would not deny that one bit. However, I'm not the one who elects. There's also a foreknowledge. I think that it's also noteworthy that he uses the word predestinate and foreknowledge in the same text as if Somehow to make sure that we go ahead and put to bed the idea that God picks those that he knows will already choose him.

Which is which is a faulty worldview because that would somehow another if you run a backdoor on it would insinuate that you somehow Have control over your salvation. Here's what it looks like to me from a from a regular Pentecostal boy.

Who initiates this salvation man or God? God Who calls man to repentance man or God? Who initiates salvation then God the Bible says that no man comes to the father lest the spirit draw him. So we don't argue with Scripture when Scripture couldn't be any more clear.