June 17, 2019 Show with Mostyn Roberts on “The Subversive Puritan: Roger Williams & Freedom of Conscience”

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron Radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this 17th day

of June 2019 and I'm thrilled to have a first -time

guest on the program today.

Not only do I have a first -time guest, but I have a first -time topic.

My guest today is Mostyn Roberts minister at the well you in

evangelical church in Hertfordshire United Kingdom and I know that I'm going to have to get my

pronunciation corrected on both of those uniquely UK names

but he is the author and the book that we are going to be discussing today is

The subversive Puritan Roger Williams and freedom of conscience and it's my honor and

privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron radio Mostyn Roberts.

Thank you.

Chris.

It's good to be with you.

And yeah, I'm here in what well in we're.

The second W is silent.

It's just a Any evangelical church and we're about 15 miles.

So it's

only slightly butchered Hertfordshire.

I said hurt.

It's spelled like it should say Hertfordshire.

Well, tell us about the well in evangelical church in Hertfordshire United Kingdom.

Well, it's

better than

having the remains of a Roman in your.

Yeah.

Are you confessional in

regard to

the

1689 London Baptist Confession or any other?

No, we we don't.

Officially we we do we have a fairly great.

Well, one of the things that we do on iron sharpens iron radio.

When we have a first -time guest as we have that guest give a summary of their own salvation story.

Give us if you would.

An explanation of your religious upbringing if any.

And what kind of providential circumstances are sovereign Lord used in your life?

That drew you to himself and saved you and how you actually also came to

embrace the doctrines of reformed theology.

Well, I was brought up in a man.

Although

I was

a

church

as

well.

So

before

I

was

England

a

barrister

and

Barrister

spent my time

that.

Was

there

any

pushback

from your

more

liberal

father since your.

Christian experience seems to be quite different.

It's quite different that we can't we did.

I mean, I guess I

was not a

lot older

than mother like I think

a lot of

men of his

generation.

Yeah I had no idea that they had liberal elements in them.

I know that they've thought that yeah that generation.

I mean, it didn't seem to

affect.

Dr. Martin

Lloyd -Jones who came out of there.

That's right.

But he's ignited them in the

18th and early 19th centuries.

Yeah, he was educated in the medical school not in.

That's right.

He was a young so yeah, but no

his.

In fact, she and dr Lloyd -Jones

were

all

of each

other

any time.

Which was a very kind of what

I read about.

I'd read

the God

who

is that in

fact

a lot of

people

who have.

Spent any reasonable amount of time as are many in Christians when they become

reformed they have very often described it as a being born again again.

That's right.

Yeah, it was like that was like that was in the early 1980s and I my intellectual

Love of

you

brought up something.

Significant in this conversation that would

Lend me to the quest asking the question about Your bite -sized

biography that you've written for evangelical press about Francis Schaeffer since he had such a yeah Strong

impact upon your life and your theology.

Tell us about this bite -sized biography and even about the series itself that evangelical press

publishes.

Okay.

Yeah, the This is going back by I guess I guess about 10 years now.

I think he before I was really involved with evangelical press.

I Have been chairman at the end.

I'm a I'd be I'm a still a board member.

But EP be I think before began this series by textbook with the idea to try to make something

not so well known You know accessible to do them

in it with short book and they've

made a list of it.

Well, I gave me they gave me two or three names and I said, would you mind?

How about if I were to write about Francis Schaeffer and.

They came back and they agreed to that.

So it was really a labor of love here with Schaeffer's works.

Although I went through it again.

I read Ed

Edith

she 12.

I Think it's been

just really an introduction to Schaeffer's Life

to the brief.

I enjoyed writing it and and great

well if anybody.

Wants more information about evangelical press who have published Not only

the bite -sized biography by Mustin Roberts on Francis Schaeffer.

But I've also published the subversive Puritan Roger Williams and freedom of conscience.

You can go.

21 Volumes in the bite -sized series.

So there's a lot of a lot of a lot of those books around.

Sorry.

I interrupted you.

Yes, I was just gonna give the website for EP books, which is the that's right.

What's the abbreviation for evangelical press books?

It's EB books org.

EP books org and.

Also, you can get any EP book from my sponsors here in the United States

CV BBS comm which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV BBS comm

they carry quite a number of books published in the UK.

Here in the United States.

So a lot of this would depend upon where you live as to where you would order

Mustin Roberts books or any other evangelical press book, but we thank the fine folks at evangelical

press For donating 100 copies of the subversive

Puritan Roger Williams and conscience of freedom, which were recently given away at The Iron

Trip and Zion radio pastors lunch in the most recent one that we had on May 23rd and

dr. Tony Costa professor of Islam and apologetics at Toronto Baptist

Seminary was my keynote speaker speaking on how the Dead Sea

Scrolls vindicate the reliability of the Bible and We were honored to give away copies

of this book by my guest Rostin Roberts today at the luncheon and

also quite a number other Major Christian publishers and also

not so well -known publishers that are absolutely Extraordinary when it comes to their

quality of what they publish.

So many of the publishers every year donate to The pastors luncheon and we're so glad that

we this year Included the subversive Puritan Roger Williams and freedom of conscience among them.

If you have any questions for my guest Mustin Roberts on Roger Williams.

My email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

C -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n -a -g -mail .com.

And as always, please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you disagree with the theology of our guest today.

Or the theology of Roger Williams and you don't want to identify yourself.

When expressing your opinions, perhaps you disagree with the theology of your own church or your own pastor.

Well, we would require that you remain anonymous in that case.

Or perhaps you're a pastor and you disagree with the theology of your own denomination which happens from time to

time.

We understand your your desire to remain anonymous and we will grant that request.

But if it's not a personal and private matter, please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence.

Well, this is quite the provocative title typically when especially

we who are conservatives and may even be more typical

of conservative Christians the word subversive Does not exactly pop into

mind as a compliment.

When you're describing someone I think that is a provocative title in and

of itself.

The subversive Puritan but also even the the description of Roger Williams

as a Puritan may raise some eyebrows of People who only have a very

tiny bit of information about Roger Williams.

They may only think of Roger Williams as a Baptist and and I think that our

guest today will reveal that that was only a portion of his life of being a

Baptist and also.

That I guess the the true part of what our guests may have heard

is that Roger Williams?

Although a Puritan strongly opposed the persecution

By Puritans against those who disagreed with them theologically.

Yeah, so but but but tell us first of all

why you had this burden on your heart to write a current book on

the life of this great hero of the faith.

Yeah, and what what was it that captured your imagination about him and drew you towards wanting to learn

more about him and write much about him.

Well In 2012, I think it was I think I must have

I just picked some years called Liberty of

Con Edwin goes it's about Roger Williams and I

read it and it just began to Intrigue

me and so over the years the

next three or

four John Barry

wrote next and

I read

other book complete writings.

And I thought I really would like to write something get under and get all this out of my I think I think

the number Of things appealed to me.

I've always deeply committed Personally

to the idea of freedom.

It goes back to quite why I

was any kind of

I thought this is dreadful.

Yeah, I think there was I don't know whether it be Welsh or being non -conformist or being I don't know present I was

brought up but and and so Williams drew out something quite emotional in deep debate in me about

the the idea of religious freedom for a man who fought for freedom of conscience and

Really?

We need to remember is a

not to incredibly

difficult times as a Christian.

We may not and yet

Ecclesiology and

eschatology.

I'd like that.

I'm sorry if you could finish your thought there.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, no, that's right.

Yeah gone.

I was gonna say I'd like you to now start.

With the life of Roger Williams in the same way.

I started the program with you if you could give.

From what you know about Roger Williams.

Something about his religious upbringing in London, I believe is where he was born.

Yeah, if any religious upbringing and how he came to be

Called by Christ.

What kind of providential circumstances that you are aware of rose up in his life that drew Roger Williams

to God and saved him and and.

Tell us a bit obviously about his theological journeys.

Yeah Williams was born and brought up in

East London as a

date.

We know that he appears to have

in London May have worshipped at

the same churches.

Threadwood cook who was a very famous later on took on Williams as

a kind of an nuances

an Influence on Williams as well.

This would have been an Anglican Church.

This would have been an Anglican Church.

Yes in the 16 in the early 1600s and

He We don't have anything much

about in

a later writing.

And he said

this about one of his

latter books.

He wrote the father of

lights

and he

did

write later on in life.

About a little bit

ambiguous.

What did he mean by that?

Did he mean that his

home.

Could he have been using the the term my father's house as an allegory for the church?

It it might be yes.

Entirely clear it.

What it does suggest is that he was conscious from an early age of approach which I

guess lends itself to.

The adjective you used In your title the subversive spirit and there was obviously

something that he was Saying or believing or doing that put him on the

blacklist for the church at some point.

There was something there.

Yeah, I mean, I we don't know certainly maybe

in his

in were there who

as

immigrants

cutest minorities.

And later on we do know that he learned that and we're

gonna pick up right where you left off because we have to go.

To our first station break right now.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Ornson.

And if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is

Mustin Roberts minister of the Welland Evangelical Church in Hertfordshire United Kingdom

and the author of a biography on Francis Schaeffer and Evangelical Press's bite -sized

biography series and today we are addressing his latest book the subversive Puritan Roger

Williams and Freedom of conscience.

If you'd like to join us our email address is Chris Ornson at gmail .com Chris ARN z en a

gmail .com and as always Please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live

outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and

Mosten if you could pick up where you left off.

You were talking about some ambiguous ambiguous reference by Roger Williams.

Written about his childhood where he found disfavor in his father's house, and we don't really know what that means.

But if you could we not

quite sure no, it could

be it could they could be a

biblical rather maltreated.

Anyway, he

never

said

anything

else about that.

I do try to summarize

In

terms of

it.

How

did

he were

and

why

did

he

arrive

on

the

shores of

America to

begin

with

from?

London.

What happened was as he grew up?

He then went

to

Pembroke

all of his first degree.

Lord

month.

So this would have been like a house church.

This would have been to a you know, he would have been a chaplain.

He would have

been

the

pastor.

So

this

is like a religious

butler.

We're talking.

You're talking about a kind of religious butler.

Yeah, you're talking you're talking about you.

You

have

you

have

prison

being in.

And

what

were the

specific

things

in summary

form?

That the non -conformists the Puritans had or held in opposition

to the Church of England was a lot of Liturgical things things that they

believed were Intrusion on perhaps the regulative principle.

I don't know if they called it the regulative principle back then but but something similar to that.

Well the Puritans the Puritans going back to the fifth obviously

men amongst them who had been.

They came back to England and

they wanted a purer church.

They wanted to get away.

They wanted the lump.

They saw in the

other direction.

He the

mainline Massachusetts Bay men like Winthrop

preacher John Cotton.

Congregationalism

became a kind.

You you can't

you you

can't have it both ways.

You you you either got to Be Anglican or you know, you know and be a national church,

right?

And he would he would back

and said no, you're not you're halting between two

opinions.

It depends on how you look at these things, you know, but Williams began to poke holes and

Either there are he he went to.

They were very glad to get with a godly minister.

They were very pleased John Winter was applauded to have him.

They offered him a teaching post and

then he began throwing

other things into the mix.

He then he then had to go to.

Many began making

this began quite

as James the first

and

He then

says no right to inform

getting

to.

They didn't

like what they heard.

Sounds a lot like the Quaker William Penn's view of the United States.

Yeah, America should be governed.

That's right, it was.

The interesting

thing was

Williams he'd gone

hammer

and

tongs much

like what your

average.

Theologically committed Calvinist in the 21st century most of us

Even theonomists Don't typically want a denomination to rule

America.

They don't want to violate the United States Constitution that prohibits the establishment of a religion.

That's right, and so you have people that are firmly committed to the doctrines of sovereign

grace or any other Christological view or theological view.

Yeah, but at the same time Even though they might call their neighbor a heretic

or an apostate they would say that we want this country To provide freedom for people such

as the heretics and the apostates.

To freely believe and have the liberty to worship as they see fit.

Well, this is what Williams you say?

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's a Williams's views at the time.

We're far too far ahead.

I mean incentive

the kind of intellectual success in a way in terms.

He would not allow the old allegiance to

another state, right?

Neither did John with John Milton, but it's

unheard of.

And two years later with the First Amendment to the car your Constitution.

He wins the day.

Really history.

History was on his side.

In fact, we have to return to that thought.

Because not only do you have to hang up and call us back from the UK to say to save yourself money.

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As host of iron sharpens iron radio I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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Before I return to our guest today mustin Roberts who is discussing the life and

legacy of Roger Williams.

Before we return to that discussion. I just have a few Announcements to make regarding special events that I

hope you attend.

The first of which is going to start this coming Sunday, June 23rd and will

continue through the following Wednesday June 26th

that is.

The.

2019 John Bunyan conference of Tennessee Sponsored by Providence Theological

Institute of New Covenant theology.

There's a very good likelihood.

I will be there.

I heard about this late notice.

So I have to rearrange some things and so on so I'm not a hundred percent sure but I am gonna try to get there

because this this year The John Bunyan conference is going to be

held in tribute and in memory of my friend John Riesinger.

Some people know him as John Reisinger, but it is John Riesinger and he Had

great influence upon my life and my theological thought.

I was a regular attendee at the John Bunyan conferences here in Pennsylvania Before

they relocated to Tennessee and although I had some differences theologically with John Riesinger

I still learned a great deal from this friend of mine and had him on this program and I I

can't even Explain adequately the impact he had on my life and the

impact his conferences had on my life that I attended with.

The late Don Blind who was my late wife's pastor.

Don was a very dear friend and I would accompany him for a number of years to the John Bunyan

conference.

So this will be done in memory.

As I said to John Riesinger who is actually the brother of Ernie Riesinger who founded the church where I am a member

now Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

John and Ernie had some sharp disagreements over theology.

Especially in regard to the Decalogue and other matters, but They both

proclaimed unwaveringly the doctrines of Sovereign Grace and as my church still does.

Many years after Ernie Riesinger planted the church in the 1950s but the John

Bunyan conference Includes a very impressive lineup of speakers.

Some of these men are close friends of mine.

Some of them I have interviewed and some of them will be first -time speakers in my

life, but Pastor Gary L Scott very good friend of mine for many years who some of you may remember

being a guest on Iron Trump and Zion.

Radio.

Peter Gentry who I've not yet interviewed looking forward to getting him on the show at some point.

Pastor Greg Van Court.

Dr. Joe Kelly.

Dr. Stephen Willem many of you may have heard.

Dr. Willem on Iron Trump and Zion radio.

I'm looking forward to meeting him in person for the first time.

God willing Pastor Blake White.

Pastor Gary George from Worcester, Massachusetts area what a phenomenal brother

in Christ.

He is a longtime friend going back to the early 1990s.

Who I've had on this program Reverend Kirk Willem and Dr. Tony

Costa my dear friend who has been involved in a number of events that I've orchestrated here in Pennsylvania

and elsewhere.

And debates and conferences and he was my last keynote speaker at my Iron Trump and Zion radio pastors luncheon.

So that's going to be June 23rd through the 26th.

That's this coming Sunday through Wednesday.

The 2019 John Bunyan conference of Tennessee in Franklin, Tennessee to be more specific

Adams Road will be performing that is a musical group of Christians that are all former Mormons.

That's Adams Road and I am so looking forward to it if I can attend and God willing I will be there in attendance.

If you would like more information on this conference go to the website of

the aforementioned Providence Theological Institute of New Covenant Theology and that

website is PT INCT org.

PT INCT org and You could email me as well.

If you want more information Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Then coming up in December the 19th and 20th, which is a Thursday and Friday I will be heading back to my old stomping grounds

in New York City to attend the foundations conference a conference of sermon audio .com.

And I am so thrilled to be attending this event.

Once again, the speakers are always phenomenal and they include dr Stephen J Lawson whose voice you've been hearing

every day promote The new the New Covenant Church NYC in Manhattan a

church that sponsors this program.

He is the founder of one passion ministries and he is a profound and extraordinary preacher.

Paul Washer another profound and extraordinary preacher is on the roster.

Jeff Thomas another profound an extraordinary preacher.

We were talking about Wales earlier with my guest Mostyn Roberts.

Jeff Thomas was for over half a century the pastor of Alfred Place Baptist Church in

Aberystwyth Wales.

He is now retired from pastoral ministry and is an itinerant evangelist and author and you've got to hear

him preach if you never have before Reverend Armin Tomassian a Man that I believe is going to be a household

name over the next decade amongst Reformed Christians.

Anyway, he is a powerful preacher a young man who has gifts and abilities far beyond his age.

And I look forward to hearing him again preach a Richard Caldwell jr.

And Andrew Quigley are two men that I have not yet heard preach.

But if sermon audio selected them for this conference, I am sure they are extraordinary.

So if you want to attend this conference and meet me there I would love to see you there.

Go to the foundations conference calm the foundations conference calm that's December 19th and 20th

and Manhattan what better time of year to visit New York City than in The Christmas season and I'm

sure it will be memorable for you then in January.

I am heading back to Atlanta, Georgia more specifically College Park, Georgia

for the g3 conference, that's g3 stands for gospel grace and glory and

The conference is being held Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th.

The theme this January is Theology.

No, I'm sorry worship matters worship matters is the theme this January.

The speakers are always extraordinary and this January is no exception.

Kosti Hinn nephew of the notorious Charlatan faith healer

Benny Hinn.

That's some introduction, huh?

Well Kosti is no longer a word of faith Christian.

He was raised in that heresy and has renounced it and he has renounced his own uncle

As being a heretic and he does whatever he can to travel The world

exposing the word of faith heresy for the deadly and damning and dangerous deception that it is.

And he is going to be speaking on worship matters at this conference.

He is now a Reformed Baptist pastor in California and a cessationist.

On top of that David Miller another extraordinary preacher is on the lineup a man who is

certainly very familiar to most of the iron sharpens iron radio audience.

Derek Thomas Who I believe is also originally from Wales.

My friend.

Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries that I've known and called my friend since the early

1990s.

Joel Beakey who has also been my friend since the 1990s.

President of Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary.

Josh Bice the founder of the d3 conference.

Once again, we have Stephen Lawson and Paul Washer on the roster at this conference my friend.

Dr Tom Askew who is the executive director of founders ministries the Calvinistic ministry within the

Southern Baptist Convention and Votie Balcom.

One of the most powerful voices for Christian truth alive today.

If you want to register for the g3 conference go to g3 conference .com.

G3 conference .com.

I strongly urge you if you have a business or parachurch ministry or something that you want to promote

Amongst a very large crowd of Christians then register also for an exhibitors booth at the g3 conference while they still

have room.

They have typically over 5 ,000 people every year who attend this.

I will be manning an exhibitors booth.

I hope to see you there.

I hope your exhibitors booth is near mine.

That's g3 conference .com.

G3 conference .com.

Make sure you tell them that you heard about the g3 conference from Chris Arnson on Iron sharpens iron radio.

Last but not least if you love iron sharpens iron radio, you don't want the show to disappear.

Please go to iron sharpens iron radio dot -com click support then click click to donate now.

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We are an urgent need of your finances.

We have a very scary month awaiting us.

July is very scary financially.

We don't even know how we're getting our rent paid and our electric bill paid for jet for July.

I'm sorry.

Did I say January for July is a very scary month.

That's next month.

Thank you all of you who?

Responded to my call for help for June and We have from to my knowledge

most of our bills paid that are owed this month and we need your help for July, please

Give more than you ever have if you've already given and if you've never given please give for the first time go to g3.

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If you are not a member of a local Bible believing church and you're not prayerfully looking for one you're living in rebellion against God.

If you need help in joining a Bible believing church near you I have lists of biblically faithful churches

all over the world.

I've helped a number of people in my audience find churches near them and even churches where they're going on vacation

so please send me an email to Chris Arnsen at gmail .com and put something like I need a church home in the

The subject line also if you can advertise with us.

We would love to Help you launch an ad campaign on iron sharpens iron radio because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars as long as

whatever It is that you want to promote is compatible with what I believe.

You don't have to believe identically with me.

But you do need to be promoting something that is compatible with what I believe.

Then please send in your email to Chris Arnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And that's also the email address where you can send in a question to Moston Roberts on Roger Williams our

subject today.

The specific title of his book is the subversive Puritan Roger Williams and freedom of conscience

publication of evangelical press.

That's the subversive Puritan Roger Williams and the freedom of conscience.

Our email address is Chris Arnsen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnsen at gmail .com before our elongated station break in the middle of the show.

Pastor Moston we were talking about how before We had Thomas

Jefferson promise Baptists here in America that there would be no

establishment of a national religion that they would it were to have

freedom of Conscience and their ability to worship and believe as they

pleased.

This has become known as the separation of church and state which Ironically leftists in our day and age

have flipped that on its head and made it the opposite of what it was intended to mean.

They believe that it means that.

That the government can impose Restrictions upon people of religious faith, which is the

exact opposite of what it meant.

Originally, but you were saying how Roger Williams.

In fact, I believe Roger Williams is the first one in Recorded history that we know of who

coined a phrase the wall of separation and he was speaking of the separation between church and state.

I don't know if I'm correct on that, but if you could continue from there.

Yeah, you are.

Thank you.

Yeah, we were just.

I just finished off what I was saying about Williams and the debates with the Quakers.

It's very interesting that because this is so so I think teach them

a.

A

Recent academic Teresa

Beja

determination to tolerate the Quakers in Rhode Island Really

looks like the

willingness to coexist with those people and views.

One finds most to work for

him about its behavior just

like most was there.

Light and

Downgrading.

I

think

that

you know,

but I

think that

toleration is

very different from yours.

Da Carson wrote a book with a phenomenal title the intolerance of tolerance.

That's right.

I think that's not but I think I think Williams is somebody who actually lived

profoundly disagreed.

But said

we

are

all

God's

creaking

influence

would

in

Jefferson's.

I've

read

no

one's

ever

found.

We have a

listener.

Mary in Cork Ireland.

Who wants to know was Roger Williams the planter of the first Baptist

Church in America and How long was he actually a Baptist.

Yes.

In

so

far as

we know I

learned

from you.

He never was a

member

developed.

I have a

precursor.

We have a

precursor to

Harold

camping

here.

I.

Don't know.

I don't know him.

I don't know.

Harold camping was a World wide

Globally known reformed President of a radio network called family radio.

Yeah, and he Was he he maintained an excellent? Radio

network for years that was thoroughly reformed.

Although there were some non reforms programs on there.

It was predominantly Calvinistic.

He was from a Christian Reformed Church background but he began to spiral

into bizarre teaching and Ultimately into her into heresy and

he came to a point where he declared that the church was the enemy of Jesus Christ and vice versa

and That if you were a member of any church, you are an enemy of Christ.

You had to just sit at home and listen to him on the radio, basically.

Yeah, and in order to be right with God, so yeah.

I mean, there's no other I mean even people like cotton matter who wrote the great

works people like John Winthrop, etc.

There's no evidence that he would ever accuse Williams of.

They accuse him of having strange eyes and one mustn't forget

I'm in the 60s very bizarre

and extremely excitable ideas as we would say it now derived by many Puritans.

Even mainstream I

think in the

context of

his time.

He was probably Certainly at an extreme end of a spectrum, but it was a spectrum.

But he didn't meet with

believers.

He was known he was commended for preaching with great acceptance in

The Narragansett country.

In fact, he sent

us.

So I do you

know, he was one of these men who managed to keep on

yet.

Arrived from.

I wasn't alone in.

I'm sorry.

He wasn't alone in his revelation in the 17th century.

Certainly one thing.

I just wanted to quickly say before the folks at family radio get mad at me.

They have publicly repented Over their support of Harold Camping's heretical views.

Harold camping has had died a number of years ago.

They can they continued his hero heresies for a bit, but they have renounced them.

Now.

They've purged their airwaves of all remnants of Harold camping

and they are committed to biblical and confessional orthodoxy today.

So I just wanted to make that clear.

I didn't leave the story hanging with Harold Camping's heresy.

Did Roger Williams even though he had that Looney Tunes idea of the church that you

mentioned?

Did he did he remain?

After becoming Baptistic, did he remain a believer in?

What we call Not credo, but I mean not

pedo baptism, but credo baptism a baptism.

That is only for.

Repentant believers.

Yes, he did and there's very interesting evidence of that just recently.

In 16

John Elliot the great evangelist to the in

pedo baptism, and it was a book

in credo baptisms.

And so Williams but in this little book Williams all the

classical arguments for credo baptism believers after me wasn't.

He wasn't a member of Baptist Church.

He hadn't been for 40 years but he

even at that stage the funny thing is those on

another of his books and it was lodged in a library in and

it was only in the last decade translated

and It was discovered they

managed to deke and

it's been published in a book which came out in 24.

So so in 2014 these but the scholars from Brown University

the latest work by Roger Williams.

How about that but into a very helpful introduction by the scholars who translated it?

But it's with some also some interesting comments on

the.

So it's interesting

that he.

Denied the existence of a church, but yeah, but be but.

Perpetuated a church ordinance namely baptism.

He did he he came to some rather strange belief that I'm in In in what we're going to call a

Paul's apostolic succession.

It was not because he just believed that and

and you know He believed that the the the church was in from between Revelation 6

The the white horse nation 19.

We are still in that period death of the

two with we're not there yet.

But then they will rise and then you apostles are we are thankful to

you know progressive parallelism and other and a revelation.

But but for them it was a kind of chronological history and and they

varied on where they well.

Thank God for Thank God for solo script Torah and not solo Roger Williams.

Yeah, yeah, we have to go to our final break right now.

It's much briefer than the last one if you intend to send in a question and we do have a couple of people waiting.

If you intend to send in a question do it immediately to Chris arms in at gmail .com Chris arms in at gmail

.com.

And please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA don't go away.

We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?

Or am I trying to please man.

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist confession of faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

Than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity.

But since that wasn't the Apostles priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and To be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth.

And love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area Please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750.

That's 508 -528 -5750.

Or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our TV program

entitled resting in grace.

You can find us at Providence Baptist Church ma .org.

That's Providence Baptist Church ma .org.

Or even on sermon audio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio.

Did you know that all believers are priests and first Peter chapter 2 verse 9 the Apostle Peter describes

Christ's Church as? comprising a chosen race a royal priesthood a holy nation a

people for God's own possession so that you may proclaim the Excellencies of him who has called you out of

darkness into his marvelous light.

So if you're a Christian, you're also a priest now.

You can find the newest styles in Reformed and Protestant apparel at citizenpriest .com.

Citizenpriest .com specializes in Christian themed t -shirts and clothing especially for

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Citizenpriest .com's merchandise is purposefully scripture based and meant for the edification of the

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Let everyone know that you stand firm on the doctrines of the Reformed faith by wearing apparel from

citizenpriest .com.

Visit citizenpriest .com today.

Tired of bop store Christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

And this is our last segment of today's show.

With our guest Mostyn Roberts, we are discussing the subversive Puritan Roger Williams and freedom of

conscience and.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

We do have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania.

Who asks do you think that the life of Roger Williams is an example to us all

to not?

Totally write off.

Those that have profoundly impacted the church by preserving the gospel.

But at the same time have developed a bizarre concept of a certain portion

of theology.

Or on the other extent on the other end of the spectrum those that elevate heroes

to become Idols where they imitate everything that person believed and taught.

Okay, I think

where Roger

Williams

does that he

believed in

the

federal

I

used

that

in

the

yes, I

think

I

didn't

want it.

Sorry God.

I was just gonna say quickly that people who believe in reformed theology Above all should never have fallen into the

trap of persecuting those Who disagreed with them because we can that we know that

men can never force men to become regenerate.

Absolutely.

No, no, I'm this is this is a point that would either you do that.

Argument conscious God alone is Lord of the conscious.

You can't force religion and.

But I think in England, I

mean you you

can yeah, we have much we are much

further down the road towards secularism.

I don't know much.

I don't know much.

One of the things I do Williams does say to it to it is this you know You you need to learn to be a

Christian without Christendom.

You need to learn to be Christian without a Christian and I think over the over recent years I've heard

quite a lot of

a theology

of theological theological approach, which is Doesn't

doesn't

need Christendom doesn't

want to all

that right?

We are

out

of time and

I definitely want

to have you back.

Mostyn and I just want to repeat The website of the church where you pastor

the well in Evangelical Church that is well in W E

L Wyn Dash evangelical .org UK that's

W E L W Y n Evangelical .org UK

and Remember.

You can get the book that we've been discussing the subversive Puritan Roger Williams and freedom of conscience and

any other Evangelical press book at C V BBS comm C V BBS comm that's Cumberland

Valley Bible Book Service.

If you could hang on mustin, I would love to speak with you off the air before we Say goodbye, and I would want to thank

again all of you who listened.

I am sorry that we couldn't get all of the questions that we're waiting to read on the air.

But when we have mustin back resubmit those questions.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

are a sinner.