Confusing Gender Roles

recordings for class we have the first half and then or the first big part and then this little secondary part when

I posted on sermon audio it's so funny because this little 20 minute section at the end usually gets like more hits and like a lot of more people a lot more people tend to like this

I don't know why but we'll see if that if that trend remains so we're going to finish out tonight with the discussion and this discussion question is should the local church be concerned about confusing gender roles now let me just we just spent an hour saying that we believe or at least

I believe and I'm teaching that there's a distinction so right away

I would have to say yes but when this question is deeper than just the whole pastor should women be pastors it's the it's more on to the issue of confusing the roles of men and women because there are churches that don't have women pastors but still confuse the roles of men and women in other areas and that's really what

I'm digging into how do we see this happening today I'll give you my first example the subject of gender has become a culturally hot -button topic and issues such as transgenderism gender dysphoria gender inequality and the so -called gender wage gap have consumed popular media now now you're going to hopefully start getting into what

I'm trying to say because what I see in churches is accepting the the world's understanding of how things ought to be when it comes to gender

I'll give you an example well have you guys you guys are maybe you're not maybe you are but you're familiar with the gender wage issue and I have heard that proclaimed from the pulpit as an issue that needs to be dealt with because because a lot of pastors see themselves as being social justice proponents and so even though they may say well we don't let women preach here but we're still going to promote the social equality of men and women which what actually it does is it begins to blur the line between men and women and create no distinctions so yeah we'll believe that only men should preach but everywhere else there's going to be no distinction and I one night years ago

I was here and there was a guy who was here and he got shouting mad at me because I said that I would not allow my daughter to be drafted into the military

I said I do not believe that a woman should have to be forced to protect her country and I said

I have three daughters and I said I do not believe in that women should be forced to fight for the guy

I don't mind a man draft because that's part of our duty if there is a responsibility to protect the country we don't always agree with the government but we do have a responsibility as men to protect our homes and protect our nation but my daughters do not have that same role he got spitting mad at me you know what his whole argument well in Israel women have to sign up for the military same as men we need to be like Israel I said you mean that secular

Israel that is ungodly don't tell me that they're the people of God because they are not worshipping the

Jehovah Scripture I'm gonna make some of you real mad the Jews today are not worshipping the

God of the Bible if they were they would be worshipping Jesus Christ they are just as secular and just as godless in many ways as their

Muslim neighbors yeah I'll get that'll get me real popular but the point is the point is

I'm not looking to Israel for my example of how to treat my daughters so what I'm saying is this is the point

I'm making is it becomes I remember sitting at a dinner one night and a woman wanted to argue with me about the gender wage gap well don't you believe don't you know pastor that women don't make as much as men

I said first of all prove it it's actually not a proven thesis it's assumed it's not proven that women don't make as much as men just because they don't have a penis it's not the truth the reason why women don't make as much as men in many areas is because of the difference between men and women that are naturally ingrained for instance most women when they have children draw back from their work and focus on the home therefore they over a lifetime period they're going to make much less than men the difference between men and women is naturally ingrained and it's

God -given so this whole argument that we have to try to equal men and women and we should be supporting that in the church is nonsense again if I'm offending you write me a letter

I'll put it with the rest of them I'm gonna read you I have something additional to this

I wrote within these conversations there's an awful lot of nonsense you have men wanting to be women women wanting to be men you have those who celebrate everything feminine and condemn everything masculine you have a demand for universal gender equality along with the elimination of all gender distinctions from society you have you you even have to identify your gender and distinction of your sex on forms from a list of many your sex is male and female but your gender is a whole spectrum it is just not a popular subject to discuss the differences between men and women especially if that discussion places one in a position of authority over the other

I tell you what I have a son I have two sons and I have three daughters and from birth they have been different and you have grandchildren right and I know

Mike and I have talked about the difference between the girls and the boys you know it's funny because girls you know you their attitude tends to be different not always not always the same but it's different than boys and you know what's funny boys pick up a stick it's a sword they pick up a it's a knife it's a sword it's a gun it's just because they're violent no it's because they're men it's because God placed within them manhood and masculinity and ever since the public schools have been in this country we have been trying our hardest to stop the masculinity out of men schools are much more promoting a feminism in the classroom than they are masculinity they try to stop out every form of masculinity they can and promote feminism among men and that's why we have a bunch of men who don't know what it is like to be a man

I'll let you but you understand my point this is why

I'm saying is there a difference between men and women absolutely there's a genetic difference there's a biological difference there is a functional difference between men and women do some men behave stupidly yes have some men been treated better because they're men in the workplace yes has there been unfairness in certain areas yes we're not denying that these things can and do happen but what we are saying is that by eliminating or erasing the distinctions and genders we are not helping our world and we are certainly not helping our church a few years ago

I was asked to do a wedding now this was 15 years ago no 17 years ago

I was I wasn't the pastor yet so it was 2004 ish and in the wedding vows there's a statement love honor and obey that's the traditional vows for the woman to love honor and obey obey and the woman demanded that I take that out of the vows and as a 24 year old man who had only recently been ordained

I was willing they had judged me hard I was 24 years old the point is

I did because I was because I didn't understand what

I was doing by doing so I didn't understand what I was violating by doing so I really didn't

I mean like I was 24 years old I was recently ordained and I we were going through the vows how are we going to say the vows what vows you want to use you know because there's all different ones you have the ones the

Anglican book of common prayer you have the different traditional wedding vows and she said I don't want the one that says obey and I said okay and I just didn't think anything of it until years later

I began to look back on that moment and I said what I did was I gave up a teaching moment with that woman to explain to her she may not have wanted me to do the wedding after that but now at this point

I don't even like wedding so if you don't want me to do your wedding fine I honestly that's why I have a list you got to do this stuff because I'm not

I love to do weddings for people who love Jesus and love one another but doing weddings is very difficult because there's months of preparation

I don't just marry two people I go through counseling with them and I spend hours of time with them going over the scriptures and talking to them about so it's it's not easy but at that time

I just I felt obligated in a sense and I was wrong looking back I would do it differently but why did she not why did she want that because in this was her own words she said this will be an equal partnership you see what

I'm saying how the gender this issue is within the church even if it's even if it doesn't have anything do the pastors because a lot of women and I've heard this out of their mouth so I'll say it a lot of women don't like women pastors a lot of women will say

I don't want to hear a woman pastor I want to hear a man pastor I mean but then when they go home

I'm equal to authority to him you see they understand headship in the church but they don't understand headship in the home this is the point

I'm making by eliminating these gender roles everywhere else we keep okay we have a this is why just because a church has a male pastor doesn't mean that they understand complementarianism in the church and in the home this is more than just whether or not you have a male or female pastor okay so that that's the reason why

I brought this up the ultimate goal of many people is to blur the line between men and women into irrelevance and God's design is simple you know what

God's design is do not blur the line in fact I will show you this go to first Corinthians 11 now this one creates a lot of discussion because Paul does use a cultural example and that is the example of a head covering for a woman he does use that as his illustration in this passage but the principle he is illustrating still stands even though we don't wear head coverings in our modern culture anymore the principle is that men and women should not look the same there should not be a blurring of the line between men and women just read it

I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ in the head of every wife or head of a wife is her husband by the way

Kefale again the head headship is there and the head of Christ is

God which there's a Trinitarian argument that we could talk about don't want to get into it tonight because it's referring to Christ and his in his role as having submitted and coming in the in human form he submitted to the headship of the

Father as a man right because he's a God man so we see that here but verse 4 every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head since it is the same as if her head were shaven and in that time a woman who shaved her head was it was dishonoring herself so he's saying the point is though men and women had a different physical look and if you follow the argument through he even goes to talking about the way they did their hair and he talked about the fact that women had long hair men didn't have long hair not in the same way women did women had hair that was long and it was meant to be a sign of the glory of her femininity and a man did not have that same feminine look this is why all these pictures of Jesus where he looks like a 70s rock and roll star always bothered me

I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't look like you know have a mullet you know I mean he might have had it down to the shoulders but I'm pretty sure

Jesus wasn't hanging around his rear end you know I'm just a guess I wasn't there but uh but the point of this is that there's a there's a there's a physical visible difference between men and women what is one of the things we try to do in our culture we try to remove that difference and we say and we and we it doesn't matter if a woman is feminine or if a man is masculine in fact let's go to this slide

I'll read to you this slide the line between men and women is not irrelevant we know the line is not irrelevant because science history and our own experience tell us the line is relevant even if they don't the biblical testimony would be enough it is an important line in the structure of the world of the home and of the church when the line is removed and there is seen no differences then we remove the very diversity which

God created in us I have a I have a example you guys ever heard the term metrosexual

I'm going to read to you I wrote something about a few years ago the term metrosexual became very popular this described a man who was typically heterosexual but was given to enhancing his appearance with fastidious grooming routines beauty treatments and fashionable clothing which often included tight -fitting pants now by itself there's nothing necessarily wrong with any of those things being clean healthy and even fashionable is not a crime even though there are some fashion crimes tight jeans but but like anything often it is taken to the extreme for some it became about taking on traditional feminine looks and even mannerisms it would include adopting an effeminate behavior in a manner of speaking men

I believe I have biblical testimony I believe I have biblical support men should look and act like men and women should look at act like women now culturally there are differences like I said if I go over to Africa and I or I go to Indonesia with with with missionary

Scott Phillips and I hang out with the Tao tribe their men are going to dress differently than the men in America so I'm not saying that a polo shirt and dress pants is what a man has to wear but when you go to the

Tao tribe in Indonesia you can tell who the men and women are they look different and there is a different role and there's a different way that they present themselves and we have tried and tried and tried to blur those lines everywhere and we should not blur those lines in the church so when we talk about the subject of complementarianism it's more than just the question of should we have women pastors that answers easy but the question is should there be a distinction between men and women even outside the pastorate should there be a distinction between men and women in the pew

I think first Corinthians 11 says there should should there be a distinction between men and women in the home

I think absolutely I would say even in society and what's funny is it happens naturally when you when when we just look at the world the world separates itself naturally into men and women what happens is the intelligentsia the college professors come and tell us that we're wrong for the girls liking the dolls and the boys liking the swords and they come around and they say no that can't be it was so funny the other day

I saw a picture somebody posted online they said I tried I'm trying to help my daughter to be more gender non -specific so I gave her race cars to play with because those are traditionally boy toys and she went into the bedroom and she had put the race cars to bed and her she had put the race cars in her in the in the in the dollhouse and had tucked the race cars in because that's what she wanted to do and again you say well what about tomboys of course they're they're going to be they're going to be bleed overs you know growing up I you know

I was always funny because my wife was a sports star she went to college playing softball and she was a pitcher she had a college scholarship to pitch softball

I was I sang I was in I was in chorus

I was glee club I was in the band so we always joked that she was more athletic but you know what when we're out in the world there's no question something happened she would stand behind me and I'm not going to stand behind her there's a role that I take on as her husband that she doesn't get to have just because she can throw a ball a little better than I can okay a lot better Bobby don't give me a hard time well yeah

I did do some things that were quite masculine so but but all that to say

I hope that this class has been somewhat enlightening on why this is more than just about women preachers if it was just about women preachers we could have talked about that last week this is about roles gender roles in the church and I hope that you understand that if you are a woman or a man that that doesn't necessarily make you any more valuable but it does give you a position whether whatever it is in the church that's different and distinct and we should thank

God for our distinctions and the hand can never say to the foot I have no need of you the eye cannot say to the ear I have no need of you because God makes us the way wants us for the purpose that he's put us here so let's pray father

I thank you for your word I thank you for your truth I pray Lord that your truth would ignite a fire within us to want to continue to burn forth the flame of the